What if Pinky and The Brain tried to be comic book superheroes and low-budget horror movie directors to take over the world?
>> Rob: Okay, so we'll turn on the mind control filter, and then everyone who's listening to this podcast will become our unwilling slaves. Wait, we're recording right now? Oh, okay, nevermind that. ignore that. So welcome to Dear Watchers, an omniversal comic book podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.
>> Guido: We are traveling with you through the stories and the worlds and the devious world domination plans that make up our omniverse of fictional realities we all love. And your watchers on this journey are me, Guido, and I'm the brain listen to clear.
>> Rob: And me, Rob car.
>> Guido: Exactly. Exactly correct. I don't know what my catchphrase would be, other than we're going to take over the world, but yeah, and.
>> Rob: Hitting me m on the head or something like that.
>> Guido: Exactly.
>> Rob: Well, before we begin our, our attempts at world domination, you know what's new in our little section of the multiverse?
>> Guido: We had a flurry of x related EPs over the last few weeks. Months. Go check them out. Because we dipped back into the amalgam universe last week, and now this week, it's exciting. We're doing tv and comic books. We haven't done that in a long time. And we have a few more interesting ideas on the way for some multimedia omniversal, travels. So please keep sharing, keep writing, keep talking to us on social media. Thanks for joining us.
>> Rob: And if you are joining us for the first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse origins of the story, exploring multiversity and pondering possibility. So thanks for coming along.
>> Guido: And remember, leave a five star review wherever you are listening to us.
>> Rob: And with that, dear Watchers, welcome to episode 131 and lets check out whats happening in the omniverse with our travels to todays alternate universe. And today we set aside our plans for world domination to answer the question, what if Pinky and the brain tried to be comic book superheroes and low budget horror movie directors to take over the world?
>> Guido: Yes. So the alternate earth that we visit has no numbering. Cause even though it comes from GC Comics, it's a little complex. Cause it's itself an adaptation of a tv show though. Then each issue is kind of its own parody. So let's call it Earth PNB, which writing that out might be the first time I realized Pinky in the brain is also sort of like peanut butter, like PB is. I feel like something for some reason, maybe probably because of peanut butter, we always like those letters to go together. Maybe that's part of the naming system that they chose when they were naming these two.
>> Rob: That's so true. Well, we're going to get into some of their background, but let's talk about our background. Guido, what's your background with Pinky and the brain?
>> Guido: Well, I think we're gonna have similar answers to this in 1993, and when they debuted, I loved them. I was watching Animaniacs. I loved watching Pinky and the Brains series. I was a big fan of it. I had a few of the comics. I think we'll probably get more into our background with the comics. I wasn't a huge fan at the time, in part because I was just obsessed with superheroes in my comics. And so I think it didn't meet those needs. But I loved Pinky in the brain. However, it's also one of those things that I've just never revisited. It's in my mind. I didn't forget about it, certainly, but I don't think I've thought a lot about it or certainly revisited it for 25 years until preparing for this episode, and that was really fun. What about you?
>> Rob: Yeah, very similar. I love the animaniacs where they debuted, and then I really probably even more so than the Animaniacs. I really loved their own tv show. I was definitely, probably minorly obsessed with them. I had a t shirt, which I still have and still fits, strangely enough. Must have been huge t shirt when I was a kid. And yeah, I had a bunch of the comics, too. They were the only comics of cartoons that I bought. I never bought the Simpsons or Looney tunes that I did buy pinky in the brain comics. But like you, I haven't really revisited the show. It's kind of lingered somewhere in the back of my brain for so many years where you revisit the comics or the episodes, and it's like, oh, my God, I remember that exactly. But I haven't actually gone back to watching them until this episode.
>> Guido: I think they were pretty inaccessible for a bit. I don't know if it had to do with their popularity. I doubt it had to do with the rights. Even though they're parodying, which we're going to talk a lot about, so much pop culture stuff, I don't think the rights were an issue because they did come out on DVD at some point, and now they are streaming, though, only for purchase, not on any free platform or any subscriber platform, I should say. So, it's not like Muppet babies where they just don't exist, but I don't think they were super accessible, and that could be why we never found our way back to them.
>> Rob: Well, we know they're laboratory mice whose genes have been spliced, but. But let's go a little deeper into the origins of this story.
>> Guido: Right now on this very show, you're.
>> Rob: Gonna get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago. So first up, we're gonna talk about their first appearances on television, their dual.
>> Guido: First episode, which is where they debuted, of course.
>> Rob: Yes. And first up is full, complete, exact title. Steven Spielberg presents the Animaniacs. And not episode one, but episode two. That's from September 1993 and specifically the segment win big.
>> Guido: And that segment was written by Tom Ruger and Peter Hastings and directed by David Marshall and Rusty Mills. More on them in a few minutes.
>> Rob: And that episode also has the Yakos World segment, which we're not talking about. But if you're a kid of the nineties live somewhere in your brain, it's.
>> Guido: Probably the most famous animaniac segment for some reason. I don't know why, but it is.
>> Rob: And then next up is Pinky and the Brain, episode one from September 1995. And that's entitled Das Mouse.
>> Guido: And this is written by Peter Hastings and directed by Liz Holman. And both episodes are, of course, starring Maurice Lamarche and Rob Paulson, as are titular characters Pinky and the Brain.
>> Rob: So let's give a little backstory on how Pinky and the brain and the animaniacs came to be. So Warner brothers, they really wanted Spielberg, Steven Spielberg, if I need to say his first name, you know, the other Spielberg, to make an animated film for them. So to court them, they wanted him to develop an animated tv show first. And they brought in the director, Tom Ruger. And that tv show didn't become the Animaniacs. It was actually tiny toons, also a.
>> Guido: Big fan of that.
>> Rob: Yeah, big, big fan. Lots of parodies, too. Lots of pop culture, too. And when that show was a huge success, they decided to create a new show. So Ruger planned a show about actually three platypuses, but upon walking around the WB lot, he decided to incorporate their famous water tower and made the trio into the Warner brothers and their sister and revised the design. And that show was really, the Adamaniacs was really indebted to comedies from the thirties and fifties, like the Marx brothers and Abba Costello and the Tex Avery and Chuck Jones cartoons.
>> Guido: Yeah. And it's amazing to me. We rewatched all the segments, not just Pinky and the brain. And while we're focused on Pinky and the brain tonight, the Animaniacs, I can't believe, first of all, how many references they cram into every second. It's wild. And then having loved it 25 years ago, or whatever this is 30 years ago, I guess, and watching it now, I'm like, God, I was getting 15% of the references 30 years ago, and now I'm getting so many more. And some of them are quite adult in orientation even. And I couldn't believe it. It's quite a multi layered show, and a fun one, too.
>> Rob: Even in their theme song, where they're singing about their contracts and stuff like that. It's such, as a kid, it just goes over your head, but now it's like, oh, my God. Well, I didn't even realize what they're singing about.
>> Guido: And they're like, it's one of those parodies, too, where they're, I think things like South park do this, and maybe even stuff like Family Guy does it with Fox, where, or certainly the Simpsons actually does it. Like they're making fun of Warner Brothers and using a lot of Warner Brothers properties. It's kind of remarkable to me that it was allowed to exist in the way it was.
>> Rob: Yeah. And one of the things that they wanted to do. So he, Ruger, really thought the show would work well as a sketch show where, like, the Warners were the center, but other characters were around them, probably inspired by Carol Burnett and Sunny and Cher and all those other sketch shows of the sixties and seventies. So he thought of the premise for Pinky and the Brain, one of the sketches, when he wondered what would happen if Tiny Toons adventures. What if? Yeah, exactly. What if the writers of Tiny, Toon adventures, Eddie Fitzgerald and Tom Minton, tried to take over the world. And Fitzgerald, I guess these were two kind of crazy out there characters. Yeah, characters unto their own, right, because Fitzgerald would actually use words like Narf and Egad around the office.
>> Guido: Must m have been a Thundercats fan as Tom Minton.
>> Rob: He looks like the brain, too. He has this very brain like look. So Ruger cemented the idea after he modified a caricature of the pair drawn by the animator and the animated series legend Bruce Timm, that added mice ears and noses to the two actual real people. But of course, the other main inspiration for the brain was Orson Welles, who Maurice Lamarche actually voiced in the film Ed Wood. And more of that connection a little bit later and in various animated other projects. And then Pinky was inspired by the british comedians like Monty Python and the Goon Squad and all those folks.
>> Guido: And is he supposed to sound like someone in particular?
>> Rob: I don't think so. I think it's just supposed to be a silly british voice.
>> Guido: Yeah. Yeah.
>> Rob: And after being a success on the Animaniacs, the duo were spun off onto their own show, and it was envisioned as the kid WB's answer to the Simpsons. That was in September 1995. Like the Animaniacs, their show included lots of deep references to pop culture, new and old, and tons of guest stars. In 1998, though, the show was retooled as Pinky Elmira and the brain with the addition of Tiny Toons Elmira. That decision was not taken well by the team. A lot of people quit.
>> Guido: She was also such an obnoxious character, although I think I liked her, but.
>> Rob: Well, they said they made her into even dumber than Pinky. So then Pinky really didn't have much of a role, they said, like, he was like the Larry of. Of, like, the Three Stooges. Larry.
>> Guido: I don't remember this era of the show.
>> Rob: No.
>> Guido: I might have outgrown it at that point.
>> Rob: Oh, yeah. Well, and also it only lasted for 13 episodes, six of which were shown unedited and seven which were split up into other segments on other things. But. So then they went. Disappeared for many years. Right?
>> Guido: Yeah. I don't even feel like they were licensed or merchandise.
>> Rob: I don't think so. And the Animaniacs, too. I don't really think you really saw them forever until 2020, when the Animaniacs got rebooted on Hulu. That show, lasted for three seasons. Pinky and the brain work course on that. And then the duo also did some masterclass inspired shorts that are on.
>> Guido: And we'll talk more about that series in a bit, but a bit more background on the folks who created the episodes we watched for our first segment today. So Peter Hastings, who co wrote their debut and solo wrote their pilot episode, wrote the majority of the cartoons and the spin off. After kids, WB insisted on those changes, he left the show. He worked on Darkwing Duck. He worked on Tiny Tunes, the Kung Fu panda series. So a lot of kids tv known for its clever humor. Liz Holman, who directed the debut episode of Pinky and the Brain, worked on animaniacs bonkers, tiny tunes. And Alex Bornstein was also a writer. Just a little side trivia there in terms of who was involved in the show and then in terms of the voice actors. Maurice Lamarche began as a stand up comedian. Opening for Rodney Dangerfield and even Donna Summer, which must have been quite a staged lineup that night, but found that voiceover was more his thing. On the real Ghostbusters cartoon, he was egon, he was Yosemite Sam. He was Gi Joe. Who was he on Gi?
>> Rob: There's not a character. I don't know. I think he was a lot of miscellaneous voices.
>> Guido: And then the animated series and all of Matt Groening's shows, including the critic. And Rob Paulson's first voice over acting was as snow job and Tripwire on Gi Joe. So he gets some feature characters. Boober on the animated fraggle rock, Arthur on the tick. He was a voice, on Mighty Max, the mask.
>> Rob: He was the got milk ads and the mask. He was both of the titular characters.
>> Guido: And of course, the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, where he was Raphael in the original, Donatello in the reboot, oddly enough. And he also was Jaco Warner in the Animaniacs, in addition to playing pinky. So some really neat backgrounds on them.
>> Rob: Those voice people like when you look.
>> Guido: Through the credits are just credits.
>> Rob: Every single thing from your childhood. And I loved, I saw when Maurice LaMarche was on, the Mac reigning show, the critic, he did 29 voices in 130 minutes episode. I don't even know how you do that.
>> Guido: Fun.
>> Rob: Let's talk about these pinky and the.
>> Guido: Brain, these two episodes. So what do you think of their debut, their creation? We don't get an or. We get an origin story in the credits. So I guess we should clarify in case someone's listening who has just no idea who these two are. so in their debut in Animaniacs, you get sort of, it's not even a theme song because it's their segment, but you get a song from the Warner siblings that explains their origin. Their genes are spliced in a lab. I think. It's not totally clear with what. I guess we assume human. I don't even know. Or they're just genetically amplified. And we end up with Pinky and the brain, who live in a lab, but every single day, escape. And of course, the setup is, pinky asking the brain, what are we going to do tonight? And brain always has a plan to respond with the same thing we do every night, try to take over the world. And they have some harebrained scheme, and it, of course, fails. I'd say that's pretty much their origin, right?
>> Rob: Yeah.
>> Guido: And so then their debut episode, you get a longer version of the theme at the beginning. And so there's a lot of background, but you never, unless there's a later flashback episode that we missed. You don't ever, like, see the origin. Like most kids cartoons, it just starts.
>> Rob: They probably didn't want to show, like.
>> Guido: Experiment, experimenting on animals. It's the kind of show that would, though, actually. So what do you think of revisiting this and how these characters debuted and what their deal was?
>> Rob: Well, what's so amazing is, I think it is 100% solidified from the very first segment in that animaniacs episode. The characters are there, and the pop culture parody element is there right away. There's no, oh, these characters are gonna evolve, and we're gonna find our voice like you see on, even, like, the Simpsons.
>> Guido: Yeah, well, let's explain that. Because so the first episode, the story doesn't matter so much. They're going on a game show. They're gonna win money, because with money, I don't even remember what.
>> Rob: Brain wants to buy another device. there's a lot of things I'm thinking the brain where, like, they need to do something in order to do something else.
>> Guido: Right. And it's, of course, irrelevant. The fun is in the jokes, but the entire episode is a parody. But, yes, it's a subtle one. It's, like, not one that most people know. It's certainly not one that most kids know. I didn't even realize.
>> Rob: Yeah. So it's a honeymooners parody. I'm a big honeymooners fan. I don't think I knew this as a kid, although I watched the honeymooners as a kid. But there's a Honeymooners episode where Ralph, the Jackie Gleason character, goes on a game show, and Ed Norton, his obnoxious kind of dumb neighbor, is quizzing him, and he's always singing this song. And Ralph's saying, like, stop singing that song. And of course, when he gets on the game show, the song, one of the questions is that song. And Ralph doesn't know the answer. And he just says, Ed Norton is his answer. And here they're directly parroting that. So here the brain goes on it. He knows all the answers. And then the final one is actually who says the quote? What character says the quote? Bang, zoom to the moon.
>> Guido: Cause Pinky's obsessed with the honeymooners. And, like, it's supposed to be that, you know, watching tv is stupid. Like, makes you stupid. And brain looks down on it. It. And.
>> Rob: Hm.
>> Guido: So. But then he loses the money because he doesn't know.
>> Rob: It's also the same, punchline at the end he just says Pinky is the answer, rather than it was just like, like Ralph says, Ed Norton. So it's a direct, like, beat for beat thing of the honeymooners, this show from the 1950s that not, certainly many kids were watching in 1993.
>> Guido: Yeah, it's pretty, it's, it's wild, because, again, there's, like, just. It's clever in and of itself. There's lots of moments of parody throughout it. I can't even remember or list them, but there's, it's just time and time again. It's a parody. The show is a parody of jeopardy. And, like, there's all these layers to it where you can get all these references. But then the fact that the whole episode, it's like a meta layer of parody, that's what really sort of blew my mind, is m learning that afterwards.
>> Rob: Even the show they're on. Yeah, it's a parody in jeopardy, and it's called Gyp parody. So it's got parody in the title. And it's not Alex Trebek, it's Alex Quebec. And Alex Trebek is, of course, canadian. So there's all, like, these, like, jokes upon jokes. And I love this also, this running gag where it's the brain and he's built like a giant, like, almost like krang on turtles.
>> Guido: Yeah, but it's like a broad shouldered tuxedo outfit. it's like the kingpin.
>> Rob: Yeah. And he's got his little head, and they get into a taxicab, and it's like, whoa. And it's like a very, like, fifties taxicab driver. It's like, whoa, buddy, what's wrong with your head? And he's like, there's nothing wrong with my head. I'm a genetically modified mouse in a suit. And, like, the cab driver in a.
>> Guido: Human suit or something, the cab driver's.
>> Rob: Like, oh, sorry I asked. So it's the fun thing. I think they set up there, too, where, like, people acknowledge that they're different, that they're not normal, but at the same time, they don't ever go, oh, you're a talking mouse.
>> Guido: Well, it's like, that's where it's so clever. I mean, the animaniacs are like that, too. It's basically the rule of the Muppets that Henson had, where it's like the Muppets exist, and no one questions that that's the rule. They are their own thing. We don't explain it, and we treat it as normal, even though it's this very odd thing. And then their debut episode, again, is just filled with parody. I mean, I didn't even know the title is parodying some german film, das Boots.
>> Rob: Boots. About submarines. Yeah.
>> Guido: But then, of course, the plot is parodying, like, the hunt for Red October, and there's references to Jacques Cousteau and Moby Dick and Free Willy. I mean, it's just so they just cram, even though every episode title, and we'll actually see this recur in the comics that we visited today, every episode title is a specific parody. The episode itself parodies, countless things and not even necessarily connected to the title parody. So it's just wild what it took to write this.
>> Rob: So, yeah, they're taking over a submarine. They need to rise the Titanic to get. This is, again, why? Like, a lot of the plots are complicated, but it doesn't matter. They need to get the rise the Titanic to get a rare crab that's living in that Titanic in order to put that into a pancake recipe to help. that will then be a mind control thing. So it's very complicated. But I love they're in the submarine, and brain is like, okay, now call me Captain Brain. And Pinky says, like, oh, can I be kwee kueh? Which is a Moby Dick reference? As if, like, any child watching this, maybe they just thought, oh, queequeg sounds like a fun thing.
>> Guido: Right? Well, that's probably why it works. that's where there's just a genius in the level of parody here, because, yeah, it's a funny, entertaining line. and it works whether you get the reference or not. And then it just gets, the layers get increasingly complex as you get more and more of the references, and that is just genius parody. So it was so fun to revisit these. And like you said, I think they were right out of the gate. The mission of the show was clear, and I think we're gonna see that translate into another medium.
>> Rob: Yes. So we are going to power up our mind control device and jump into exploring multiversity.
>> Guido: I am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question, what if?
>> Rob: Now, before we get into the alternate universe of Pinky and the brain, Guido, can you tell us a bit more about their comic book history?
>> Guido: Yeah, it's pretty brief, but it's significant. I'd say. They debuted in March 95 in one of three stories in the Adamaniacs book from DC. So what's interesting about that is it's before their show even debuts. So their popularity at that point is clear. It's two years into the Animaniacs run DC. Of course, being a Warner Brothers company makes sense that there are the ones publishing Looney Tunes comics and animaniacs comics. So adamaniacs runs for 59 issues. And almost every issue has a pinky in the brain story. Not every issue, and some of them are even adapted from the tv show episodes. Not too many. But the first, episode of their show is adapted into a story in a later issue. Then it's July 96 that Pinky and the Brain get their own title. So they are actually appearing in two DC comics at the same time. Though their title only lasts for 27 issues in that book. Each issue is either a single story or it's split into two stories. They are always, of course, parodies and they are original to the book. So they aren't adapting the tv show premises. And, like, it's interesting because these are not licensed properties. But I wonder if there are maybe shared rights with Spielberg. I don't even know. So these have never been collected and, like, licensed comics. Even though, again, Warner brothers owns these properties, their value is really high. Even though you might stumble upon them in some dollar bins. A lot of those licensed cartoon comics, they probably had slightly smaller print runs than some of the superhero books at the time. And they're just oddly, like, these issues sometimes are up to $30 an issue. And that's pretty astronomical for a mid nineties book.
>> Rob: It's funny, too. The ones I had growing up, I, as you know, from sorting through my childhood comics are really beaten up.
>> Guido: Oh, my God. The covers are, like, barely hanging on.
>> Rob: Yeah, well, I was a kid, I was thinking, oh, I don't know how I knew this, but it was like, oh, this is like a, cartoon. it's a licensed. I didn't know what a licensed comic was, but, oh, it's whatever. I can just take it out. But I knew the superhero comics. I knew I needed to keep more pristine, even as a kid.
>> Guido: Although your official handbooks and who's who were also extremely beat up, I bought those used.
>> Rob: Anyway. We both chose an episode of the Pinky or an issue of the Pinky and the brain comics. And, guito, your issue, fittingly, is the very first one. That's Pinky and the Brain, volume one, issue number one, from July 1996. And that is called Legend of the Dark Knight.
>> Guido: Yeah. So you can see what they're gonna do there. It's written by Bobby Weiss and David Cody Weiss with Robert Graffiti penciled by Walter Carzone, inked by Mike DeCarlo, colored by Joe Muno and lettered by John Costanza. So quick background on those folks. Bobby and David Cody Weiss, married team that would work in comics, worked on Pinky and the Brain, Looney Tunes. Bobby did some animaniacs. She wrote novelizations. And some Sabrina, later on, David Cody did some deathstroke, the Terminator as well. So, quite the contrasting characters. And he was, interestingly, prior to this, he was a letterer for a lot of Bronze Age DC books, and he went on to do a lot of the Nickelodeon novelizations for their tv shows. Robert Graff only wrote this and edited one issue of Animaniacs, and then went on to do some Simpsons in radioactive man comics, which, of course, have run forever. The artist on this, Walter Carzone, did Looney Tunes comics, animaniacs, Pinky in the Brain, Flintstones, and still does children's books and comics. I mean, his comic art is clearly, like, straight out of the animation of the show. And so you can see why he did this, why I picked this issue. So I was looking at the different things they parodied. And there's a later issue where they parody Batman, and it has some fun poison ivy in it. But then I discovered that, in fact, it was a sequel. They had first parodied Batman in this premiere issue, and I figured, let's start with the debut issue. So the premise, very briefly, because it's unimportant, it's just joke. A joke machine, as we've talked about, is that in order to take over the world, comics are so big, which is, of course, true. In 1996, comics are dominating the world. in Pinky and the brain's discovery, they see everyone rushing into the comic store on new comic Book Day. It's a Wednesday, which is really fun. That that is still true. And, and they decide they're going to be comic book superheroes to take over the world. And that you get lots of fun jokes as they research different superheroes and what makes a superhero, and they decide to become Batman and Robin and very fun stuff. So did you enjoy this parody?
>> Rob: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it's so fun. M there's, like, the episodes, it's crammed with references. And there's stuff that, like you said earlier, there's some things that would have totally gone over your head reading it. Like, there's a lot of talk about the bulges that are in your spandex.
>> Guido: There's one point where Brain Pinky is clearly gonna talk about how important it is to accentuate the breasts on the character, but he gets cut off.
>> Rob: Yeah. And then also the Robin can have bulges, but smaller bulges than the Batman, like the sidekick. So it's like all this stuff in there that, again, as a kid, you probably just really get. But as an adult, it's like, oh, my gosh. And on top of that, then it's just all these fun parodies.
>> Guido: Yeah, yeah. And then even when they're doing their research, they are creating a bunch of actually kind of mashups. And they have, like, squirrel Verene, and it's a squirrel wolverine, but with a gun. And, like, very Rob Liefeld nineties looking or faun, and it's spawn, but a deer. And again, he has a big gun. Like, every character has a giant metal gun because this is peak mid nineties. And they really know what they're doing being their debut issue in a comic. Like, of course, parody comics. And, they do such a good job with it. It's fun.
>> Rob: Well, speaking of comics, they even reference real comic book stores, which, certainly kids are not getting, but I think a lot of adults were getting. They mentioned Jim Hanley's universe, which was a legendary New York City.
>> Guido: Well, but they make it like, so Jim Hanley's universe, legendary New York store, is Jim's hardly a universe comic shop. Or then you get, instead of the golden Apple, the very famous LA comic store, it's the golden pear. And then instead of forbidden Planet, it's forbidden antics. And then there's one that I don't know what it is, which is knife fight comics. So that, oh, night flight, I think that's another famous New York store, actually.
>> Rob: Another one. Yeah. But even, just, it's so interesting because even this, like, the early days of the Internet, it's not like today where everyone, like, I've never been to the golden Apple, but I know of the golden Apple, like, in 1996. Did people even know what these comic book stores were on the other parts of the country?
>> Guido: Yeah, it's true. I don't know. I mean, they are some of the more famous ones, but you're right that they might not. So as we saw with the tv show, deep cuts, where you can just go through and peel back the layers. I'd say with that, what I was surprised by, there's so much text.
>> Rob: Yeah.
>> Guido: And I guess there has to be because the, the jokes all come in. What's being said more. There aren't so many visual gags. Maybe in pinky and the Brain. Obviously, there's a lot like you said, the human suit and all that stuff. But so much of it is in the dialogue, and I think that's reflected in a very dialogue heavy comic. It's almost like a Chris Claremont or Roy Thomas comic. But, but it's funny, super fun.
>> Rob: And then this comic, this issue also, of course, we're all about alternate universes. This issue actually takes place in an alternate universe. I guess you could say the whole comics are an alternate universe to the tv show, but then they, enter an alternate universe. It's very also comic books in general. Right. Because then they enter this, and then there's a dark brain and a dark pinky there. So all the things that we know from so much, especially, I feel DC, Marvel probably was that especially being explored maybe at this time, Guido, where there was, like, these dark versions of the superheroes.
>> Guido: Yeah, of course. Because, it's the age of extreme, right? So it's the age of, like, let's have everyone have some moment that they're corrupted, or they have some evil villain that's just like them. This is also, of course, the era of amalgam. So we're seeing big, major crossovers happening for the first time. So it's, yeah, it's all, it's all here reflecting this moment in comics, and.
>> Rob: It'S not in the episode, but also, brain is in drag on the COVID.
>> Guido: So what's very interesting, and I wonder, I don't know if they were concerned at this point, it's the only cover to not itself be at least a recognizable parody. So what's so interesting is, like, every other cover is the Jaws movie poster or the later Batman one is a parody of a Batman cover, and they're in the Batman and Robin outfit. So every cover is a clear riff on something. And in this one, it's not. So I'm not sure if maybe they weren't yet totally ready or legally cleared to lean into their parody stuff, because you just have them dressed as, like, generic female superheroes, still emphasis on the breasts, because, brain, they're stuffing tissues in the top of their, of their bodysuits. And, and the, brain is saying, trust me, pinky, this is what it takes to be big in comics.
>> Rob: So.
>> Guido: Yeah, really fun stuff.
>> Rob: My issue is Pinky and the Brain, volume one, issue number six, from December 1996. And this is entitled Plan Brain from Outer Space.
>> Guido: And so this issue is written by Jesse Leon McCann. It's penciled again by Walter Carzone, inked by Mike Ticarlo, colored by Demetrius Basukos, and lettered by John Costanza and Jesse Leon McCann did a lot of Simpson comics, a lot of the Scooby Doo novelizations, actually, and then some Looney Tunes and animaniacs comics for DC also. So you can see who they're getting to do all this, all these issues and, what they're pulling from.
>> Rob: And I chose this because it was my favorite of these comics growing up because it's a parody of Ed Wood's plan nine from Outer Space, which I did love and was obsessed with as a kid. And here they, the duo, wants to create a cheap horror film in order to insert subliminal messages to control people's minds, and things go awry.
>> Guido: Yes, they do. What do you think of this one? Well, again, in the same way that the first issue parodies, just, like, so many parts of comics, even though they're being Batman and Robin, I'd say this one does the same. Like, even though they're pulling from plan nine and you get parodies of Vampyra and parodies of Bela Lugosi and Tor Johnson, you also just get so many movie references and especially, like, independent filmmaker sort of auteur stuff going on in here, it's impossible to even keep track of the references that are in it. So it's fun. I'd say it's a little more convoluted. It might actually be too convoluted for my taste, but that's just because they're making different movies, and there's all of these layers in terms of their plan and how it unfolds.
>> Rob: Well, it's also, it's, it's one of the running gags is everyone keeps getting injured, and Pinky has to become that person, which is actually a reference then, to plan nine because Belagosi died, so they had someone fill in and dress up like him. So it gets almost hard to. A little difficult to follow because then suddenly Pinky is playing all these other people within the movie as well.
>> Guido: Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. There's so many references to, like, even the production of Plan nine, which, again, it's just, it's wild. First of all, I think it was not common for kids to know Plan nine. Certainly no kid, I'm sure even you would have known about the production of Plan nine.
>> Rob: No.
>> Guido: And so for them to be doing these jokes is like, wow.
>> Rob: Yeah. They're just fans to brain at one point. Oh, brain, are those pants made out of angora? And Brain says, yes, that's what all the directors wear. And Ed Wood was known for wearing women's angora sweaters on this, on the set and other things. And like no child would know about, like the cross dressing transvestite references. No.
>> Guido: Well, I guess Edwood had come out right. Isn't that movie from like 94?
>> Rob: That's from 94. So yeah, that's okay.
>> Guido: So I guess, I guess maybe more people would have known about it through that. Or maybe that's even what their, they're building upon, but.
>> Guido: Still, I think it's pretty wild that these are the jokes they're making.
>> Rob: And then the other real. So the Bella and the vampire are all parodies, but the one person who was actually playing, playing quote unquote himself is Raymond Burr, who's a reoccurring joke where he just suddenly keeps popping up and where he's not supposed to be saying the same thing. And then he's ultimately the president in the movie that they're making. But again, it's just like a random joke because no kid, not too many people today know who Raymond Burr is, but let alone a kid in 1996.
>> Guido: No. And what's incredible is you and I don't even fully understand the joke they're making in that. And I'm sure they're making one, but, but you and I, who contain a lot of movie knowledge, particularly of old movies, didn't get that. And so again, like there's just insane layers.
>> Rob: Godzilla, in the US version of Godzilla, they just put him in to make it look like it was an american movie.
>> Guido: So that's, chances are that's what they're referencing.
>> Rob: Yeah, but, yeah, and like all these things, like we were kind of saying for the episode, it, you were saying the convolutedness, it's always like the bulk of what they're trying to do, like they're trying to raise the Titanic, but that's not actually their world domination plan. Just like making the movie is secondary. They're only making the movie in order to get the subliminal messages in. So it's always like, it really doesn't matter what they're doing because the ultimate plan is rather superfluous to everything else. Yeah.
>> Guido: And of course they're all just setups for jokes. And that's what makes them so fun.
>> Rob: And the nice thing I think with often these things is because the brain is like the mean one. It always does come down to something that ultimately he does not. What Pinky does that causes the plan to fall apart even though he's the smart one. Like here it's like he's, he's messing up the subliminal messages, ultimately. And it's just like in the, in the, issue you chose, it's like Pinky, who knows all about the superheroes, that's able to save the day. So it's nice that the nicer character, ultimately, even though he's supposed to be the dumb one, he's actually the one who's usually right in the end.
>> Guido: Well, that's where it's a lot like the Simpsons to me in terms of the style of parody, because it's not mean spirited. And I think what I think what a lot of people, myself included, don't like about things like even family Guy and South park are that they're mean spirited a lot of the time, and that's less appealing, whereas the Simpsons and Pinky and the brain are not at all. They actually, and I think this issue is a great example, they're clearly fans of the things that they're making fun of, and that's. And that shows, and I like that a lot. So before we move away from this, do you. There are, 25 more earth PNB parody earths. But do you want more Earth pnB? I know we're going to talk about the future of it in just a.
>> Rob: Minute more, so I don't want to say too much now, but.
>> Guido: Okay.
>> Rob: And I know off the top of my head, there's a wizard of Oz, there's a mission impossible.
>> Guido: There's two terminators.
>> Rob: Oh, gosh, I don't think I've even Terminator one.
>> Guido: Terminator two. Yeah, except they're verminator, of course, because they're mice.
>> Rob: yeah. So there's so much stuff that you could do, even from mid nineties.
>> Guido: They're just, sadly, so hard to find. But maybe one day, I guess if they didn't do a collected version when there was the, rebooted show, then we'll probably never see a collected version for whatever reason. But we will track those issues down one day.
>> Rob: Okay, well, let's head into the future with some pondering possibilities. Will the future you describe be averted? Diverted? Diverted? Sogido, I have to ask. Are you pondering what I'm pondering?
>> Guido: I have to think of one of his lines. I don't know, but, but, but I can't think. I'm not funny enough to be pinky. I don't know, but, but, yeah, but, but pears don't grow in bushes. Like, he just always says something random.
>> Rob: As thinking before, I was like, yeah, I think so, but I don't think an alpaca can jump that high.
>> Guido: Exactly.
>> Rob: Just choose some random thing. Anyway, what are we talking about for our pondering possibilities?
>> Guido: Well, as we've mentioned, this show was actually not rebooted. It was recalled in 2020. So we're gonna look at that reboot, that sequel, that requel of Pinky and the Brain, so we can ponder about the modern existence of Pinky in the brain, how well we think it works or could work. So let's get in.
>> Rob: Yes. That is Animaniacs episode one from November 2020 Hulu television series. And we're talking specifically about the segment of mice and memes because, of course, that's their.
>> Guido: Their first redebut segment. It's directed by Scott O'Brien, written by Kathleen Chen and Brian Polk.
>> Rob: And in this segment, Brain wants to become the Internet's cutest animal meme. And then we'll put a mind control filter over that to take over the world, and things go awry. We should also say the whole episode with the adamaniacs is also fun because it really sets up the requel element. There's all kinds of, like, they make.
>> Guido: Fun of Hulu and Warner brothers and.
>> Rob: Them coming back, basically been frozen since, like, the 1990s. Since the 1990s. So they missed everything that's happened.
>> Guido: Yeah. And they're getting to know new technology, current references, and.
>> Rob: Yeah. Like, politicians and stuff that I was like, oh, my God, they're kind of going there.
>> Guido: Well, and I love that they're making fun of, like, their dated references, and they make fun of the fact that Bill Clinton was in their opening credits for all those years in the nineties. It's. Yeah, it's so genius. But staying on Pinky and the brain, this episode, what do you think of their return?
>> Rob: Well, I think it was a perfect return because, like, we were just saying with the animaniacs, it was bringing in something modern, like the Internet meme m. It's like, oh, of course. Like, when we're talking about the comic that's supposed to be taking place in the fifties, he's gonna be making an old timey horror movie. And now if he's doing mind control in 2020, it would be a meme.
>> Guido: And it gives them the chance to make fun of, obviously, people consuming things mindlessly on the Internet and that they love cute animals, and so he can put this filter on it. But then I love, like, there's really, again, multi layered. There's the obvious jokes, but then there's the more subtle things, like he's trying to get really popular, and he just has himself as a baby, which, of course, is absurd, even in this world. This mouse dressed as a baby drinking a bottle. But it's not getting attention until he, like, falls or hurts himself. And then it's getting a lot of attention, and pinky is trying to tell him, like, no, that's a people, like, all the videos of people getting hurt, and it's like they're just making so much commentary on real things.
>> Rob: And it's so even when the brain first publishes the photo of him or the m video of him with as the baby, and he's just sitting there staring, waiting for a like. And then there's one like, and it's, of course, the one like, is from Pinky. And it's like, oh, it's completely that moment when people post, a, video or photo of themselves and are just waiting for that, like, and when he gets the one heart, like, his, like, smile suddenly comes up, and it's like, oh, wow, this is all such great commentary on how we're addicted to these social. Even though he's doing it for another purpose, he's still getting sucked into wanting to get the likes.
>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there's absurd things, like the filter accidentally gets put on a pig that's known as business pig and goes on, like, late night shows with, like, a tie and, like, makes jokes about having contracts or something. Like, it's just so stupid and, hilarious.
>> Rob: Yeah. And it's Seth Meyers show, and I think it's Seth Meyers as himself, and he's totally making fun of himself. He's calling himself, like, smug and all these things, and, and they make fun.
>> Guido: Of, like, the Jimmy's and the other shows. Like, they talk about the people on the other shows. Yeah.
>> Rob: And I don't know if you noticed this, too. There's, like, a 20 year old, like, hipster working for Seth Meyers, like, who comes in to talk to the brain, and on his t shirt is just an avocado. They just put all these things in there. And, like, ultimately, it's, it's. But, like we said before, the reason why, it gets messed m up is that it's not really because of pinky. It's really because of the brain. So it's ultimately still true to that.
>> Guido: Classic formula, the same formula for sure. Before we talk about the comics again that I want to get into, do you want to watch more of this? And we haven't watched any of this new series until we watched this episode. Do you want to watch?
>> Rob: Yeah, totally. I think me too. I would totally watch more of this.
>> Guido: When we stop, we're putting one on definitely, too.
>> Rob: Yes.
>> Guido: So, thinking about comics, we saw the nineties version of their comics. They have had not had a reboot in comics. They have not been brought into a new comic. Looney Tunes still publishes comics, but, of course, animaniacs hasn't in some time, and Pinky and the brain certainly hasn't. Do you think that they could lend themselves to a new comic? Do you want to see them? What, what would it look like?
>> Rob: I think they're the perfect, perfect for comics. And I think, like, the original comic, it should be episodic. Like, there shouldn't be. Maybe you could do a couple, like, multi, parts, like we saw, even for the dark, for the Batman parody. But I think it works so well as a parody. And since, like, it's not on the tv anymore, I think this is a great way to continue having pinky in the brain.
>> Guido: Be clear. I think they could even do, like, a quarterly anthology book or something. Like, I never understand. I don't know. Maybe the market just doesn't demand it or something, because, again, Looney Tunes keeps coming out, and I don't get why these properties wouldn't, they wouldn't have some way of having them out, even if it's not a monthly series. That would maybe cost too much to actually have out and not enough people would buy, but, yeah, I agree. I think. I think you can pick up where you left off. I don't think you have to do anything different. You do the same thing the show did, which is take the exact same formula from the nineties comic and turn it into something. Now, the one thing I do wonder is, is there a greater fear of legal action with parody today? Clearly not. For things like Family Guy or Simpsons. They continue to riff on things explicitly and overtly. Even before Disney owned Fox, for example. We know the Simpsons would, like, make fun of Disney, but I don't know. This is more visual, and it's more explicit and overt in its references. I wonder if there's a hesitancy in at least the comic book format. And, I guess when we watch more of the 2020 show, we'll see how explicit they get with their references. Are they just riffing or parodying things that are more, generic or public domain, older stuff, or do they actually parody things? Like, obviously, I'd love to see them parody the MCU. If they do, then they clearly are afraid of legal action because that is an obvious one for them. So I'd be curious. Yeah.
>> Rob: The fun thing about comics is they could lean some into some of the superhero comic booky stuff that maybe wouldn't have played as well on tv too.
>> Guido: Yeah. And they can do what I think this reboot does is it leans and not in a problematic way at all, but it leans into the adult side of the humor.
>> Rob: yeah, definitely.
>> Guido: There's so many more layers that clearly they were realizing that some of their audience would be 30 something, 40 something year olds who grew up with a tv show. And so I think the comics could do the same thing. They could repeat the nineties formula, but add, like, an upper layer where you really don't get it unless you are in your thirties or forties and understand more of that reference.
>> Rob: Well, I guess you could say they were doing that in the nineties comics. When you think about the time difference between, like, you know, Ed Wood coming out or plan nine coming out and the comics. Right?
>> Guido: Like, yeah, they were, they were doing it. It's true. I just don't know that they were thinking that many adults were in their audience. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe adults got into it, and I just don't even know.
>> Rob: You don't put a Raymond bird joke in if you're thinking your audience is just kids.
>> Guido: Yeah, that is true. So, yeah, it's been really fun, and I definitely want to see more. Sadly, with the hulu show having been cancelled and played its last season, I have a feeling they're going to be put to bed for another few decades, but maybe not. We'll see.
>> Rob: Yeah. And m it would be fun too. m so much of it is visual, but, I think, as you said, even in the comics, there's so much dialogue. I wonder even if they could do a podcast audio version with them. I know Rob and Maurice are still so into doing these characters and just were at New York Comic Con together this past year, so that would be fun to do an audio version if comics are too expensive.
>> Guido: Yeah. Though I do wonder. I guess we, just don't know about the right stuff because I was just thinking, like, there's not even action figures of them, and that's true. And I don't know why I don't even. There might be funko pops, but I haven't. I don't remember seeing them, so I don't know. Might be some complicated things with that evil Steven Spielberg choking those rights, but who knows?
>> Rob: That is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening.
>> Guido: I have been Rob Narman and I have been the brain. You know, the reading list is in the show notes. Follow us online@dearwatchersdearwatchers.com and leave us a.
>> Rob: Review wherever you listen to podcasts. And Guido, what are we doing tomorrow night?
>> Guido: We're going to try to take over the world.
