Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

Rob: Welcome to Dear Watchers, an Omniversal comic Book podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.
Guido: We are traveling with you through the stories and the worlds that make up an omniverse of, uh, fictional realities we all love.
Guido: Uh.
Guido: And your watchers on this trip.
Guido: Continue to be me Guido and me Rob.
Rob: And an extra very special guest, a creator extraordinaire.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Yes.
Rob: Uh, you will meet in a few moments. And if you are listening to us for the first time, well, welcome. We are here to be your guides through fictional realities, and we love talking to people who create those realities and sharing that all with you. But before we get into today's episode, Guito, what's happening in our little corner of the multiverse?
Guido: Well, the week that this episode is coming out, we are also on Comic Bookkeepers. Or that episode is about to be out, I'm not sure, but you should.
Guido: Be listening to Comic Bookkeepers regardless.
Guido: And we were happy to join their show to talk about the Uncanny Xmen Teen Titans crossover from many years ago. That's a, uh, real classic. So make sure to check us out on Comic Bookkeepers, listen to all their episodes regardless. And you can go check out that episode right now or in the very near future. We also just started teasing our Amalgaminees, whatever those might be.
Rob: HM.
Guido: More information is going to be coming out the week this episode aired, and we're so excited to share this project we've been working on with Elliot. And last but not least, it's gift shopping season for a lot of people. And our Coffee page, where you can support us, where you can follow us, you can also get some fun merch. So some of the commissioned art we have is on there some silly things that we've made to celebrate your love of multiverses and the Omniverse, so go check that out.
Rob: If you don't like to wear clothes, we also have gifts for your ears and eyes at little essays, and of course, our spin off podcast, too.
Guido: That's true.
Guido: All that's accessible on coffee.
Rob: And joining us today is a writer of almost every medium there is.
Guido: I think I think every yeah, I think every medium.
Rob: We've got live action, we've got animation, we've got comics, we've got movie b.
Guido: We'Ve got movies podcasts.
Rob: Okay, it's time to reveal well, you know who it is because you saw the episode description, but it is Meghan Fitz Martin. And Megan is mostly working right now on DC Comics.
Guido: We have a whole full bio that we'll get into when she joins us in just a moment.
Rob: Yes, but and I believe guitar, she's working on one of your favorite characters now, Tim Drake. Robin.
Guido: Yes.
Rob: Yes. We loved getting to talk to Megan and Guido. What was your biggest or one of your biggest takeaways from this conversation?
Guido: It's hard to decide.
Guido: And it's funny for those people who are listening to omniversity their spinoff podcast for patrons. There's so much about story, and that's the world of fictional reality and that language we use. And so much of this conversation with Megan was about story and the emotional dimension of story. And at one point, she said, story changes people, and it's true. And, uh, I think we all know that. But what Megan was talking about was the emotional relationship we have to stories and the way that we get to explore our emotions and other people's emotions through story. It's really, really powerful. And a lot of Megan's backstory that she shared and then what she's trying to do with stories in terms of making people feel seen and feel loved, is really powerful. I think it's why she is my favorite writer of 2022, and I think it's why this conversation was so good.
Guido: What about you?
Guido: What was a takeaway for you from this conversation?
Rob: One thing I think I took away, which you could apply no matter what you do. You don't have to be in comics is to have hope, not expectations. And I think there could be a really fine line between those two words, hoping for something or kind of expecting it. And sometimes I think I can definitely fall into that latter category of, uh, yes, I'm just expecting this to happen. But I really loved how she went into that and really how that mindset has played such an integral part in her journey as a creator.
Guido: Yeah.
Guido: So let's get into it. I hope people enjoy it, and I hope you go out and support Megan's work and pick up your books.
Rob: And with that, dear Watchers, welcome to episode 74, and let's check out what's happening in the multiverse with today's conversation. Welcome to our extra special guest, writer and creator Megan Fitz Martin. Hello, Megan.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Hello.
Rob: Thank thank you you so much for being here. And before we dive in, Guido is going to attempt to introduce you.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Best of luck. Better you than me.
Guido: Well, yes, because I can talk you up in a way that I think most people, uh, don't like to say about themselves. Um, so feel free to correct, though, because we try to honor our guests for taking their time, joining us with a full picture of who they are. And as I mentioned to you before we started, I'm a big fan of your work. So I tried to capture why in your background so it's clear that Megan Fitzmarten loves stories. Joining the long running TV show Supernaturals Writer Room as an assistant, you then became writing staff and wrote a few episodes. You've written for DC? Superhero, girls, cartoon peacock. Supernatural Academy co wrote the Justice Society World War Two DC Universe animated movie, which has a very cool multiversal twist that I wasn't expecting when I watched it. And Megan has written fictional podcasts with some pretty spooky, creepy, and mysterious stories that unfold over the course of them. And of course, you've made quite a mark already on comics with less than a few dozen under your belt. Your work, I'm going to call it Legendary Megan, started with the future state Robin books, joining in on some other Bat family backups in standalone including the very recent Zaytana backup in the Dark Crisis tiein. But perhaps most famously writing the story of Tim Drake becoming his full self, his bisexual queer Robin self in Batman Urban Legends. And you just wrapped the multiversal and way undertake about Dark Crisis. Young, uh, justice series have an upcoming story in the Tales from Earth Six celebration of Stan Lee revisiting his just imagined DC Universe, which is so cool. And you're writing the really fun ongoing mystery book Tim Drake Robin. So Megan, welcome.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. That was amazing. I was taking notes on like, did I do that? But it's been a while. That was amazing. Thank you so much.
Guido: Well, it was cool. And uh, what I really liked, I try to do as much research as I can to write these BIOS, but I love how you lay out on your website each medium you work in and the things that inspired you. And so actually that helped us think about our questions and cause you clearly have just such a deep relationship to story. So that was very cool. You made it easy.
Meghan Fitzmartin: I do what I can. I was an assistant for a long time, so I think that partly helps. Well, yeah.
Rob: Can you tell us thinking a little bit too about your early fandom of stories, comics and otherwise? Because I'd love to hear some of the formative stories that I know you've mentioned that have influenced you early on. We're like seeing The Lion King, which definitely I can remember is one of the first movies I ever saw in the theater. Seeing the lost world, seeing the Spiderman movies in the theaters. So where did that early fandom, um, come from? What were some of those early influences?
Meghan Fitzmartin: I think something that we don't really talk about is, uh, generational fandom. So my mom was a Beatles fan girl. Absolutely. That was a huge part of her existence. She was never one of the ones that you see in the videos or anything like that. But she had such a history of like, loving the Beatles and she has this deep love for Julie Andrews. And so I do think that I come by it honestly. I also grew up in the church and what is church if not a deep fandom? And so I think that I was sort of primed at a very early age to understand that story changes people story can be incredibly powerful and paying attention to that. I was not an outdoors kid until I, uh, was sort of forced to be. When I was in my teenage years, we went to Hawaii and it was like the best part is the outside, just figuring out kid. But it took me a while before I was really an outdoors kid, and I was always reading. I read the Nancy Drew books when I was little. And I remember, like you said, I remember The Lion King, I think, was my first movie experience. Going to see Spiderman was a formative experience because it was the first. My family is incredibly I grew up sheltered that I'm the oldest of five kids, so that's sort of faded by the time the youngest one was kicking around. Um, but I was a guinea pig, and so I was incredibly sheltered on a lot of stuff. But my dad grew up on comics, and so that was sort of the fandom that he existed in and was like, oh, no, I'm taking you to see Spider Man. It doesn't matter that it's PG 13. Of course I'm going to take you to see this. And it was, I think, those moments where it was just, of course we would experience this. Of course we will watch Julie Andrews in this thing. Of course we will watch Spiderman. Of course. It led me towards story in a way that I'm so grateful for. And I think the first thing that I discovered on my own the two things, actually, that I discovered on my own, which were incredibly formative, were the lost world that you mentioned, which was I try to explain to people. It was a Canadian Australian copro that somehow only three seasons somehow found its way on key and tea in the morning before school. It is bonkers crazy. One of the first episodes, there's a giant bee, and it's fine. And it spoke to what you could do with things and, like, the big swings that you can take in stories. And that one and then Fantastic Four was the comic that I found on my own and realized that. So while you can take big swings in, uh, something like The Lost World, it boils down at the end of the day to character and story. I will fight for Reed Richards till the end of my dying day, um, because of his character, because Mark Wade is the one that I first read. And it was such a character study on who Reid was. And I was like, that is it. That is what I love at the end of the day. That is what I love about stories, is how it shows us character, how it shows us who we can be in a world that is sometimes a little too big to feel things. I couldn't always feel my emotions with my family, but in stories, I could feel it. In stories, I could live in a world that felt like it was falling apart. And even if that wasn't literally what was happening in my world, I could process those emotions and story.
Rob: Mhm. Yeah, I love that thing about you were saying about generational fandom, because I think for all of our parents, probably grew up around the same generation that Beatles generation and their parents didn't, I think, really have that kind of fandom, I think, in the same way, because that was like the World War II generation. And I think those parents being our parents generation, kind of being that first kind of teenage era. So I think they were super I feel like our parents were super excited to bestow their fandoms on to us because they didn't have that experience with their parents. So I think there was a lot of introduction, certainly from my dad, to his favorite movies, his favorite music, because I don't think he really got that from his parents.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Absolutely. But I think the thing is, we tend to look at fandom as being just a, um, mediabased thing. And I think that became a sort of a nonheated way to explore spaces with your kid. Whereas I do think the previous generation's version of fandom was church. And that becomes its own sort of heated, ah, discussion in the same way that you find fandom wars and ship wars on Twitter. Um, but there was a little bit more like the stakes were a bit higher. And so I think that you couldn't just casually enjoy that random, really.
Rob: Yeah.
Guido: I will say that it's funny you're talking about the way it relates to parent and child. The very rare occasion over my life when I've thought about having children, which I won't, and I instead teach. But why I think about when I think about it, it's usually and this is why I know I shouldn't have, and I'm glad I didn't, because I usually I want someone to brainwash with all the things that I love. Like, I want someone who I can pass that love onto. And I'm glad I didn't do that. And I could do it with my students and my, uh, grandchildren.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Yeah. Whenever brainwash comes into the conversation, you're like, well, maybe we should take a step back.
Guido: Exactly. Yeah. I often get told I don't have the highest tolerance for people who don't like the things that I like. Uh, yes, that's why I shouldn't parent in that way. Um, well, I love the emotional dimension also, of the storytelling that you talked about. So I'm really curious now to think about how did you transform that into a job? How did you take your love of story and start doing it professionally?
Meghan Fitzmartin: Yeah, so I've talked about this before, but, um, my way to finding a way to tell stories is a little unconventional. I have, uh, a degree in church ministry. I was going to be a youth pastor. And that, uh, led me to story in a way that, you know, I've talked about church before, just seconds ago. And one, um, of the things that I wanted to do is to tell people that they're loved that has been my guiding light, my North Star. And that is what I wanted to do as the youth pastor. And so I ended up taking classes on, uh, writing for television and radio, because I grew up listening to a radio show that was really influential to my life as well. Another one of the fandom things, it's called Adventure's Noticey. It's incredibly Christian, but, um, I would argue one of the two good things that has come out of Christian media, that and veggietails. You cannot go wrong with singing, dancing vegetables. But, uh, I wanted to learn how to write for radio. And this class had nothing to do with radio. It was only television. And I was like, Well, I really like this too, though. And the further I got into my degree, the more I realized, no, but this is how I want to tell people they're loved, is through story. This is how I learned that I was loved, was through story. This is how I learned that how to be a human being, how to love other people, how to engage with other people. It's through story. And so I completely changed the entire course of my life after graduating, uh, and moved to La. And just put my nose down and put nose to the grindstone, and was like, I just want to write. I just want to write. I love every medium. I have written for every medium. And, um, that is because all I really want to do is to tell people that they are loved, that they have a place in this world, that they're important, that they matter. And so I think of that as an extension of my degree, because that's what I wanted to do with my degree, is to tell people that they are loved. And so that is the emotional thrust of everything that I write. That is the emotional push. That is what I want to say every day. So that's how I got here.
Rob: It's amazing.
Guido: So amazing. Yeah. Really feel like we could stop there.
Rob: Because it's funny, because I think you really have written for every medium. And it's so funny that you were saying that you were so in love with Radio, and now you've written narrative podcasts, which is the Radio of 2020, and you've written comics, and you're now writing films as well. Does that approach to storytelling, that approach to world building, how do you have to approach it differently? Whether you're writing a television show or a film or comic or a podcast that's only audible, is there a different approach that you have to make?
Meghan Fitzmartin: So I come from a very once, uh, I make the decision of, like, okay, I want to write for this medium. Um, or I want to write the story. It's not even the medium. I start with the story, and I start like, okay, I want to tell this story. I want to tell this character's story. Ah, from there, I tend to go, okay, well, in what medium do I want, um, does this make sense more as a comic? Does this make sense more as a novel? Does this make sense more as a TV script? And then from there, once I answer that question, uh, the question becomes, who am I writing for? And that's not actually audience, that is literally speaking. Who am I going to give this script to? So, if, uh, I'm writing a comic book, I am writing for my artist and my editor. So that is very different than when I'm writing a podcast that I am writing for my writers and my sound designer, or not my writers, my actors and my sound designers. Animation, I am writing for the storyboard artist and the animators and my actors. Television, I'm writing for hundreds of departments, just hundreds of them. Um, and so that to me, is the real key in writing different mediums is remembering who it is that is, uh, going to be helping you in the story that you're telling. Because all of the stories, even if you're writing a novel, you are writing it with someone else. All storytelling, uh, is collaborative, uh, it's, uh, cooperative. And so you are not the only one telling the story. I am not the only one telling any of my stories. I can rattle off names of the people that have made the things that you love as much, uh, as I made them. And that is so much fun because it's not just me. I am a very limited person and I know that I'm a limited person. And so being able to work with these brilliant folks that have been able to make these different dreams and visions come to life, be it through the notes process or through amazing art or amazing sound design, amazing acting like it wouldn't be the thing that you love, uh, without them, because, uh, it would only be part of the story.
Rob: Mhm. Do those restrictions in certain mediums, do those inspire you creatively working with OK, these are flesh and blood actors. They can only do obviously, certain things, and we only have a more limited budget with that compared to, say, a comic, where maybe you're limited in terms of page counts. But of course, you can have kind of anything that you want on, um, the page. Like how do those restrictions inspire you?
Meghan Fitzmartin: I love restrictions. I'm a weirdo. One of the things that I loved working on Supernatural is that it hardened back to a time before you'd get like 8 million an episode. Um, God bless, we never had that. There was no world. There was no world. Um, and that pushed to becoming some of the best stories that you get from that show. And I think that goes all the way back to I recently started watching Star Trek for the first time and some of the best episodes of original Star trek are, uh, when you can clearly see they had no money. This was a bottle episode because we had to save money for the next episode. And those restrictions made everybody really think and work their darndest. And so, yeah, I think restrictions in mediums is also part of the fun of it. How do I tell a story in comics with just static images? These things, they don't move. So how can I get this story across? I'm working on a story right now that, uh, is very dense for the amount of pages it is. And there's never enough pages. Even in a TV script. I'm like, 45 pages is nothing. That is not enough time. And so having those limitations, I think, tend to make the story better.
Guido: Yeah. Comics, when you were talking about how collaborative in nature, I was thinking, too, about comics. They can always do better, but they're one of the medium where I feel like the team is much more visible. Maybe it's more that I'm just biased as a comic fan. But you can have a movie written and directed by some Oture creator, and you forget that there are hundreds, if not thousands of people who contributed to it. But a comic, you at the very least, have the writer, the artist, and now, luckily, we have the inker, the colorist, the letter, all being credited right up front at the start of the issue. So I feel like it's a medium that is more visibly collaborative in a real positive way.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Yeah, uh, absolutely.
Guido: I want to talk about your working comics more. How did it start how did you start creating comics? You loved them. You were a fan. Your parents were. Your father was a fan. How did you start creating?
Meghan Fitzmartin: So I knew that I, huh, wanted to write comics. I had really been focused on writing television, frankly. Um, that is the one that gives you the most money. I was like, this is the one that I'm going to pay more attention to so that I can do the other ones that I love and still survive. Um, and so I had gotten my job on Supernatural and was like, okay, I'm going to focus on this, and I feel very strongly about this. That is great. I feel in a good place with this, but I am so easily bored. I have to be doing like, 500 things at once. My agents constantly get so tired of me because I'm like, um, but I love having something else in my brain to be able to, um, work through, because I think that that's what really helps me when it comes to something like writers ah, block or something like that. Writers block tends to be a time for me, at least where I am. I need to think a little bit more about the story. And the best way for me to think more about a story is to get myself out of that medium and put myself into a different medium. I was working in television stuff, and I was like, okay, I really want to try my hand at comics. I really want to see what that gets me, what that stirs in my brain, and I just want to do it. So I took a comic book writing class here in La. And was like, I'm just going to make my own. I'm going to figure it out myself. I, um, hired this amazing artist. Her name is Yasmine. She is absolutely killing it right now. She's on the DC Milestone program. And she's doing, uh, a cover for, um, Mark Wade's, um, Batman v. Robin. And I could not be prouder of her. She is so amazing. Her art is beautiful. And I found her through Twitter and was like, hey, can you do this for me? Like, I'll obviously we'll pay you. Um, and she was really influential with helping me figure out how to, uh, do early stages of writing a script, like comic book script, how to talk to artists and things like that. And I got a lot of work, uh, out of that on just doing it on my own. So that when the opportunity came, which was about a year later, that opportunity came because I had been working in DC Animation. I had just finished working on the Justice Society movie with Jeremy Adams. And I had a great time with that. And DC Animation reached out to us and was like, hey, DC Comics is looking for some new writers. Would you guys be interested? And we were like, yes, yes, yes. Um, and we sat in on the strangest meeting of my entire life. It's a meeting that I still think about to this day. Just the last couple of days of Dan DiDio and editor there. And I was like, oh, he, like, knew that it was coming. It was such a strange experience. Um, but it worked out really well in that they were interested in us, we were interested in them. And I felt confident and comfortable being able to work in this space because I had had the practice that, uh, I sought out myself to do. I was the one that really pushed my way out. And that's the thing that I think everybody should absolutely do, is you don't have to know. I did not go to school for any of this. I cannot stress this enough. My degree. I have a BS in church. That is sort of where I'm coming from. Uh, but it is possible to do. I didn't know anyone that worked in comics. I didn't know anyone that worked in television.
Guido: So an inspiration you are. That meeting is what led to your work on Future State. Is that your first professional comic credit as Future State? Right?
Meghan Fitzmartin: Yes, absolutely. Uh, Future State was the first one. Yeah, that I did. I had a meeting. I had a meeting with a couple of different editors. After that meeting, someone, uh, on one. And I ended up meeting with Paul Kaminski, who is now the group editor for Superman. And just the nicest, just a fantastic guy. And, um, we talked about Tim Drake. And that's, uh, um, my initial entrance into working with Tim Drake.
Guido: Yeah. And so did you know the Urban Legend story that was going to be coming when you were doing Future State?
Meghan Fitzmartin: No. So I was just happy to write anything. Um, I didn't know if they were ever going to ask me back after that. To be perfectly honest. I was like, fingers crossed. I really hope so. But like, who knows? You never know. You never know. And, uh, I never expect. I only hope. M and so, yeah, I had written the future state I was sort of hopeful, but didn't have really any strong I was like, I'm going to still talk to everybody, but no real plans. And then Dave, um, Wilkes reached out to me. He was editing Batman Urban Legends at the time and was like, hey, loved your work on Robin Eternal. Would you be interested in writing more Tinder? I was like, yes, yes, obviously, yes. I love this kid. He is the Robin of my generation. He is such a reflection of the millennial Robin. And so, uh m yeah, absolutely. Of course I would. And so that's when I sort of got an idea on what I wanted to do with, uh, the Urban Legends story.
Guido: And I have to I mean, our podcast tends to be more about the multiverse, but we have to ask as two queer podcast hosts and comic fans, more about that. How did it work? Was it your idea? Was it easy? As, uh, much as you're able to and want to share? It's huge. And it's been a sustained change. And I hope it will remain a change forever. But how did it happen?
Meghan Fitzmartin: So I sent a very tentative email to Dave saying, hey, bud. So I have done a lot of reading. I was like, I really wanted to write a good story for Tim. Once again, I come from an emotional space for every character that I write. Um, and that emotional space has to be like, what is the point? What is the point of the story that we're telling? Why am I telling this kid's story? Um, there's always something, there's always a reason to tell someone's story. But it's finding the right one. I don't want to tell a bad story because I want to tell the one that feels organic to me. M if other people think it's bad, I don't care. But like, I want to know, um, that it's the organic story for me. And so I had done a bunch of reading. I, um, had just really dove in. And that's what felt like the organic story. And so I reached out. He was like, Okay, let me talk to some people. I'll sit here and wait. Um, I don't know what that story will be when they say no. But it wasn't that I had an assumption. I just knew that this was going to be potentially a hard thing to do. And it really wasn't. And I was so pleased. I got an email back, uh, from Dave going, you know what? You're good to go. Because I laid it all out. I think I sent pictures of panels of like, here is exhibit A. Exhibit B. I gave them just a full dossier on how I'm correct and how you let me write this. Um, and they were like, you know what, you're right. I think that this is the right way to go with this character. And wished me well. Uh, yeah, they were amazing. And my fear was only me personally being like, oh, I just don't know. Um, but yeah, it turned out amazing and truly, uh, surprised by I don't know. We knew that it was going to be a big deal in the comics world, um, but when the day broke, dave sent the whole team an email and was like, hey, guys. So today was a lot. It was more than we expected, but it was amazing. It was beautiful. Like, it was everything that I could have hoped and dreamed for and was so excited because it felt like the right time for Tim and DC and the world.
Guido: And what's really amazing about it, uh, I think you've told us why, without even me asking, is the story wasn't being driven by his sexuality or his exploration of who he is or even his relationship to Bernard so much. It was being driven by just this character who's finding himself and figuring out what that means in every way. It wasn't, uh, some sort of heavy handed after school, special type story. And luckily, I think we've moved away from that in comics recently. But honestly, only in the last two years. And only, I think, from you, Tim Drake and then John Kent felt the same way. It feels like it was like a domino effect. Everything happened where now it could just be an organic part of a story that this character is queer, but that's not the driving force behind the story. And that was really powerful and in the ongoing right now of Tim Drake, which I hope lasts a really long time. Because what's cool about it is you're actually using story, this first arc that has so much to do with story. Like, I have to look up the stories you're referencing because you're referencing these 1800 detective stories. And I'm like, did you make that up? Or is that real? And then I look and it's real. And I'm like, wow, you pulled in a character and got your love of story in there too. So that's really fun. Uh, how did this ongoing plotting come about?
Meghan Fitzmartin: Thank you. Yes. I'm sorry that you have to look up some amazing stories that you should absolutely read. Yeah, that actually came up. So, uh, I just read some of those stories, mostly. Uh, the very first one that I referenced, I was, uh, in Paris last year and went to this bookstore called Shakespearean Company, and I like to buy books as souvenirs, uh, because I am the most myself. And, uh, I picked up the Paris Mysteries by Edgar Allan Poe, and I was like, oh, right. I had heard of this, and I think I read it when I was a kid, but I had not read it since then. I was like, this is so good. This is so good. And when we were talking about Tim and doing an ongoing for Tim, I was like, the thing that everyone always talks about is that he's a detective, always. And he exists in the pantheon of other amazing, great detectives. We should bring that in. Um, especially because I think for a large part of him, his story right now is on identity. What is this identity that he is in? And I think that is true for a lot of us, where we are at in our lives right now. Um, that's definitely part of what I was trying to do with Young Justice, of saying we were supposed to be this one thing, and now that time has passed and we're no longer the golden education, like the higher education. Children who were burned out at a very young age, um, were just burnt out and not impressive. So that's been the story that I've been wanting to tell with Tim and wanting to get to the barebones basics of that, is detective. So we started with detective stories and pulling from that.
Guido: Yeah, very cool. And so on. Young justice. Now the multiversity. The Dark crisis. Young justice, uh, it might be my favorite comic with 2022, because thank you. I actually wasn't even a huge fan of Young Justice, but I was a fan of what was happening around it. And I knew enough of the lore that I could see the beats you were pulling in. And even I don't want to spoil it. The final issue is pretty fresh and people should read it. But you hit these beats, like, why you, uh, refer to why Tim and Cassie kissed after Connor died? And, like, I remember that moment. I m think most people who were reading DC 20 years ago remember that moment or 15 years ago when that was so you pull in all these pieces of the characters to tell this story about growing up, ultimately, but you're also doing it through this multiverse. And Nicky Mixlplix, who is an awesome, evil, horrible, incel character that I love.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Thank you. He was very fun when we got the art in and he had a beanie. I was like, oh, that's too good. That's upsettingly. Good.
Guido: Uh, so how did that title come about?
Meghan Fitzmartin: Dave, once again, uh, he is wonderful and lovely. He and I grew up with Young Justice, and we were sort of talking about it and talking about how it relates to us today. And, um, just the sort of there's been a lot of discontent in the news. There's been a lot of discontent with millennials. And it's like, sort of my own way of dealing with the frustration of the world as it is right now, and looking at, um, the people ahead of us who were like, oh, no, it'll be your turn soon. It'll be your turn soon, and then raising up other heroes to be the person I was supposed to be. And that's hard. That's really hard. The way that I look at comics is like, what better way to process the strangeness of our world than to deal with it in comics. Look at it from a different perspective, different point of view. Um, Kathy and Bart especially, were really important to me in Young Justice and in this, um, and even just, like, growing up as a kid, reading comic books as a girl and being like, I don't know, that, like and this isn't necessarily Young Justice as much as it is all comics. When I was a kid, it was so hard to find girls that felt like me, and that was hard. And I remember having to feel like I needed to be one of the guys and be different than who I was, and that was hard and hurt because I like myself and I like being me. And so wanting to give Cassie that space to be herself and not tied to Robin or Connor, but, like, existing on her own and recognizing that she is great and she is on her own, and she is this, like, really amazing character that has done so much and continues to be such a kickass character. Um, so being able to play with those characters and play with, uh, my own sort of, um, feelings about the world that we're in right now was really cathartic, at least for me.
Guido: Well, me too.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Good.
Rob: Do you feel like you've seen that diversity reflected in the audience that you meet at Comic Con as well? That they're seeing themselves on the page a lot more?
Meghan Fitzmartin: I have. So I went to my very first convention as, ah, a person who writes comics, um, this past year at, ah, New York Comic Con. And that was really surprising and really exciting. And I was so pleased and heartened by the people that I met. And, uh, of which both of you were there was wonderful. And, yeah, I was so delighted, um, by the reminder, because I think it's very easy to, like, forget your audience whenever you are on social media all the time. And I try not to be, but it's right there, and sometimes you need a brain break. Um, and it's not a place that, uh, encourages goodness. It is a place that encourages all of the worst things in people. And I don't begrudge it. I am grateful that people are so passionate. I think that that's amazing. That is what fandom comes from, is absolute passion for the things that you love. But going to a convention, it was so nice to see the people that I don't always see the voices of and go, oh, right, I am writing this for you. I am writing this. This matters and is important because you matter and are important. And I was so I don't know. I had the best time. It was exhausting. It took me, like, two weeks to recover afterwards. Um, but, yeah, I have been seeing more. I was able to talk to, uh, queer readers as well as young readers who were just like, yeah, this makes sense to me. I understand this. I was like, great. Perfect. I hadn't read comics before, or any of DC comics before, and now I'm reading these and I'm like, that is great. There are so many that I can tell you about, and I'm so excited for you to read them.
Rob: That's great, too, because I sometimes feel like comics I mean, it is like we think of it sometimes as an or. I think of it as an aging medium where the fans are getting older and there's more talk about speculation. It's more about collecting, maybe, for that reason. So it's great to hear that you're meeting these younger fans because that's what's going to keep this medium alive.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Yes, absolutely. That was what I was most excited about. I was like, oh, thank God, please read more comics. This is a great medium that you belong in, and it matters. It was important for me as a kid, so I'm excited to see more, uh, kids read them as well.
Guido: Well, and it's one nice thing, too. I think the influence of Ya books on comics just can't be overstated. It's enormous. Especially DC, who has the whole Ya line, and it's fantastic. But what's cool is you're writing stories in the mainstream comics, in the primary titles, in the main Earth titles, in the hero titles. So that way, the young people who are accessing it might also find their way into those comics and not have to stay siloed in the Ya segment of the industry.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Absolutely. It's about accessibility. Like, uh, as with most things, should be about accessibility, but sometimes there's just so much and you don't know where to start. And that's okay.
Rob: Totally.
Meghan Fitzmartin: I had no idea where to start half the time with any of the comics. Like, making things accessible for new readers to come in and feel like they're not going to be last out of their comic book shop is important.
Guido: Yeah.
Rob: Yes.
Guido: Um, so you have this just imagine Stanley created the DT Universe story coming up at the end of December. You had your foray into multiverse with Young Justice and the Justice Society movie. What is your background with multiverses and storytelling and alternate universes?
Meghan Fitzmartin: I, um, mean, as you mentioned, I worked on Supernatural, which we love nothing more than what is this crazy thing? What if the boys went to real life Canada, where we filmed the show? Some good stuff comes from that. Uh, and then I also write, um, an audio drama. We've been on an extended hiatus at the moment because I've been very blessed, uh, with work. But I write a podcast called Red Rhino, which is all about extended universes, actually, and all about, uh, what if this is the last timeline that you have to get things right? And what does that mean? Um uh, I am fascinated by timelines. When there steaks, I think sometimes the storylines that I don't like with timelines is when they don't feel like there are any stakes to that. Um, but when that tells a really important part or an aspect of the character, um, there's a Mark Wade piece of advice that I think about all the time in love with my whole heart. He is talking about writing a flash ah issue or story, and he's talking about how, um, the kids were as Wally and the kids were in trouble and the twins were going to be killed. He had to save one or the other. He couldn't save them both. And he obviously saves them both. And you knew that they were going to because it's about faults. Um, it's about faults. It's gone from my brain now. Um, false jeopardy. So when you're reading this comic and you're like, well, I know I a person who has read a lot of comics, know that you're not going to kill one of these kids in this book. It's not even their book. That's just not how it's going to work out. I think it was Barry's book at the time. So, like, obviously, while these kids are going to die, um, and the way that he got around it is at the end of the story, uh, there's a big celebration. Everything's fine. While he's off to the side, linda comes up and is like, hey, what's up? And he's like, I made a choice. I chose which of my kids that I was going to save over the other, and I have to live with that. And that, to me, was like, yes, that's the correct way of dealing with false jeopardy. What am I learning from, um, this character? What am I gaining from this? What emotional connective tissue piece am I getting that I maybe am not getting from the main storyline or the main timeline or whatever? Um, that, to me, is the most important part of these outworld stories or multiverse stories, is what you learn emotionally.
Guido: Yeah, it's like a prism to refract a character through, I think. Well, and that's something we've been doing this show for a year and a half now. And we've added questions for ourselves. When you go through an alternate universe about like, what did we learn about this character from this alternate universe? Because the best stories are that's what they're doing. They're telling you something, even though it's not necessarily the canonical version of the character. You know, they're revealing something that's built into the DNA of the canonical version that, you know.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Absolutely, absolutely.
Guido: Um, so I know we don't want to take much more of your time, but we do like to wrap up with a fun moment or a serious moment or just wondering what your dream what if or amalgam would be. So either characters you'd like to see mashed up or a question you'd like posed to explore.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Golly, I know I saw this on the list of questions, whether or not I'm supposed to reveal that there was one. And I was like, oh, I'm going to just figure it out in the moment because I don't want to think about this right now. That's too hard. And now I'm here and I'm like, uh, I didn't think about this in the moment. It would definitely be something about the absence of community either about like Reed in the absence of his family in The Fantastic Four or Batman in the absence of his family as the Bat family. I am so fascinated by how community makes us who we are and is important to the characters that we are. Um, I have constantly said that, like, for me, Batman is Batman when there is a Robin as well. Um sherlock Holmes is not Sherlock Holmes without Watson. These other people, they may be considered to be sidekicks, but they are also crucial in understanding the character and for the character to be their full self. So, I mean, maybe it's a world without sidekicks. What would that look like? What would that look like for the heroes and how would they be who they are?
Guido: Mhm. Yeah.
Rob: I love that. And I think as a queer person too, I'm hearing the absence of that chosen family that is coming so much. Whether it's Ben Grim or whether it's a Robin or another sidekick, those are those characters, the CIS white male characters, chosen family in many cases.
Guido: Uh, oftentimes their most important relationship is with those characters.
Meghan Fitzmartin: 1000%. Yeah, I mean, Batman, it's entirely found family. Like he found all of them. Um, and yeah, you're right, it's the chosen family and the importance and the necessity of how we cannot move through life without a chosen family.
Guido: Mhm yeah, well, I love that theme. I even feel like it's in the first two issues of Tindrake Robin. I can see it because there's so many moments in the narration that he's speaking where it's clear that he's exploring who he is, not being the end Robin of Batman. And you didn't have to put him in an else worlds where Batman disappears. You didn't have to do that. You're still sort of exploring that question. Uh, just in that title. And I love it.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Trying to give him a new sort of found family. If the Bat family is his real family, what are the people that's one of the best things, like the most fun things about having the Marina has been all the people that he's around and having Darcy and bringing back Detective Williams and playing around with all of the different people that make up Tim's found family is just as important.
Guido: Yeah, well, and we talked about this in New York Comic Con. And I'm waiting and hoping one day there is Tim and John Kent. I am really ready for Tim and John to have an issue that you write together. I think they'd be fast friends. So I really would like to see that.
Meghan Fitzmartin: He's a little busy at this point. So, uh, I'm going to put my dance card on John's counter.
Guido: And the other thing it sounds like, uh, I hope one day you get to write is Fantastic Four. There's definitely that's a recurring thing for me. I'm going to start the campaign now.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Really appreciate that.
Guido: For you to end up on Fantastic Four one day.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Very kind. You say that. I also don't know. I care so much about it that I don't know if I would fall apart. I think I would be like, oh no.
Rob: A meteor hero is kind of quite literally in this case.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Yes, exactly.
Rob: Mhm.
Guido: Well.
Rob: Thank you, Megan. This was so fantastic. And uh, before we let you go, can you let our listeners know if they want to learn more about your work or follow you, where should they go?
Meghan Fitzmartin: Yeah, absolutely. And uh, thank you so much for having me. This has been wonderful. When I met you guys at New York Con, I was like, these guys are the best. I'm so pleased that we were able to make this happen. Um I am at M-E-G-F-I-T-Z 89 everywhere. Megsitz 89, uh, across all platforms because I am unoriginal. Uh, so you can find me there anywhere. I'm also on my you can go to my website. There's a lot of easy, uh, links to things, whether you're interested in podcasts or movies or, uh, TV shows, comics, any of that. Uh, that's Meghanfitsmarton at Gmail or not at Gmail. That's also not my email. But I don't know why I was going to grab Meghanfitsmarton.com and what, uh, else was in that Meghanfitzmarton.com? Did I have anything else beyond that? No, I think that's it. Um, I told you guys this before we started recording. I just finished a deadline, so my brain is working at maybe 20% right now.
Rob: Well, we're going to let you recharge, uh, uh, your brand. It didn't seem like it was working at 20%.
Guido: No, for sure.
Meghan Fitzmartin: Thank you. It only started glitching out near the end here, so that worked out real well for me. Awesome. Uh, thank you guys so much.
Guido: Thanks for coming.