Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

[00:00:00] Rob: Welcome to Dear Watchers, a comic book omniverse podcast, where we do a deep dive into the multi-verse.

[00:00:05] Guido: We're traveling through the stories and the inspirations that make up the alternate universes we all love

[00:00:25] And your Watchers on this journey are me, Guido....

[00:00:29] And me Rob and an extra, very special guest member of the council of Watchers, creator, writer, and comics own Elton John Joe Glass. And before Guido. Hi. Hey Joe.

[00:00:43] Joe Glass: Hi. Hi. Thanks for having me on.

[00:00:46] Rob: Wonderful. Yeah. And Guido is going to tell us a little bit of more about you.

[00:00:51] Guido: Yeah. Yes. So please, correct anything, but I'm really excited as I was just telling you, I've been a Kickstarter supporter of your work. And so this [00:01:00] is really thrilling for us, but for those who don't know, Joe, Joe is the creator and writer of the Queer Comix imprint and the entire universe of The Pride comics.

[00:01:10] Originally a Comixology original. And now on Dark Horse, as well as Glitter Vipers, Acceptable Losses, the truly extraordinary The Miracles original graphic novel recently out and a forthcoming collection, Young Men in Love, which seems like it's going to be a cool genre, bending anthology that Joe is editing from A Wave Blue World out this summer.

[00:01:34] And that's not all because Joe has a YouTube channel with comics informational videos, and is you are just an all around comic book, enthusiast and champion promoting inclusion of so many kinds. You there's essays and interviews that are so great. People should go out and find and read. And I know I see you're always at conventions and always out there and somehow found time for us.

[00:01:58] So, thank you again. [00:02:00] Thank you so

[00:02:00] Joe Glass: much. That's so kind. Um, yeah. Yeah. I guess I try to do a little bit of everything comics is very much my life. So for, for good or worse,

[00:02:12] Guido: I say, I say for better generally. Yes.

[00:02:14] Rob: For definitely for

[00:02:15] better, right? Yeah. And you had told us before we started recording that you were packing Kickstarter boxes, all afternoons.

[00:02:22] So it's the good, the bad and the ugly of comics. Well, thank you for joining us, Joe. And if everyone else, if you are joining us for the first time, well, we have three sections of the show, origins of the story, exploring Multiversity and pondering possibility. And while we normally explore an alternate universe with these, we are thrilled to speak with an expert world builder, Joe Glass in each of these sections.

[00:02:50] So with that dear Watchers, welcome to episode 41. Let's take a ride through the omniverse with Joe Glass.[00:03:00]

[00:03:02] Sound effects: right now on this very show, you're going to get the answers to. Amazing story begins a few years ago.

[00:03:14] Rob: So for our origins of the story, we want your origins, Joe. So we have a few questions to kick things off.

[00:03:23] Guido: Yeah. We're so excited to hear. How did you become involved in comics and storytelling? What's your comic book, origin story, and then well let's talk about world-building that you do.

[00:03:33] Joe Glass: Yeah, sure. Uh, sure. So that was great. Um, I mean, in terms of how I got started. I mean, it sounds really sort of simple and reductive almost to say it, but it really is just a case of, I was a big comic book fan. I love, uh, reading. Um, and then it's, um, quickly became a case of just deciding, but I want to make them, um, and I decided that pretty early on, like I was, uh, maybe [00:04:00] thirteen fourteen when I decided, but I wanted to make comic books. Um, but like at first I thought it was going to be an artist and then I tried to do VR on I'm just no good. So just very quickly learned. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's not for me. Maybe, maybe I'm a writer and um, yeah, from then I just started writing bits of stories and scenes.

[00:04:22] Um, in fact, some of it is some of the Pride, um, in particularly. Some of the Pride's first issue. Some of those scenes I actually wrote while I was a teenager. Um, so like they were like, I think the big one is the bar scene towards the end of the first issue. Um, I wrote back when I was about 17 years old.

[00:04:42] Um, and like, it was just a little scene skit thing with some characters, but I was creating and was toying around with and eventually became. It's all the formation of the Pride and the whole series that I came back, came from that. So, yeah, it's, it's been a long time coming. [00:05:00]

[00:05:02] Guido: And so before we get into the worlds you created, so what were you reading?

[00:05:06] What was your favorite comic as a child? Were you, what kinds of comics were you into?

[00:05:11] Joe Glass: I was a really, really big X-Men nerd. Um, I mean, I still am. I enjoy everything with the X-Men of the moment. Um, but yeah, back then it was mainly X-Men comic books. Well, I say that I did read a lot of other Marvel universe, but X-Men was like what I came to all the time.

[00:05:30] And in particular, like with one, which I really fell in love with and was like absolute collected in every issue was, uh, Generation X, which was sort of starting around the time. I was just becoming a teenager myself. So like the idea of his school for teenage weirdos, with killer powers and awesome. It just was awesome to me.

[00:05:49] So, um, yeah. Yeah. It was a big Gen x, X-Men nerd. So that was my, that was my jam back in the day.

[00:05:57] Rob: Yeah, I'm interested because X-Men of all [00:06:00] comics has so many queer themes. The analogies for queer themes, some queer coded characters, and some of those characters have become explicit and recent years, but started off queer coded.

[00:06:12] But your work, you know, queerness is upfront and center there's queer characters all over the place were, was that X was X-Men and influence in some of that.

[00:06:22] Joe Glass: Yeah. It was an influence of a sense of like generally X-Men, stories of that time have very much influenced my storytelling sensibilities, I think.

[00:06:30] Um, but the idea of that, like a lot of those X-Men books at the time were very much so operas basically, um, yeah, action packed and you had superpowers and all that, but they, they were soap operas and that is part of what makes up my comic sensibility. A lot of the comics I do. What kind of soap opera your times?

[00:06:48] Uh, particularly for pride. Um, but yeah, it was a. I think for me when I was coming to terms, obviously reading these comic books at the time in my life where [00:07:00] I was coming to terms with my sexuality. Um, because like, and here's the thing, like, because I know like there's a lot of people, particularly in, in legislature and, um, in unfortunately very powerful positions around the world today who are trying to act like there's no such thing as a queer child.

[00:07:16] Um, and that's just not true. Like, I, I absolutely knew, but I was doing. From the moment I could really start thinking about myself deeply in that way. So I would say like, even as young, as like five years old, I knew I was different. I couldn't put words to it because the time I was growing up here in the UK, we had something called section 28.

[00:07:41] Um, which is very much like Florida's, don't say gay bill. Um, and it meant for no one in school. Um, or positions of authority could advertise for gay lifestyle. Um, and as such, like, they couldn't talk about it. Um, they weren't like to answer questions by it or anything like that. So [00:08:00] I had no sort of way to know about this other kind of life.

[00:08:09] Yeah. It wasn't a case that I needed that to be taught to me, to change me and make me a gate kid. Cause I was already a gay kid. I just didn't have the words over knowledge to express how I was. And it was the same complex I was finding. But like I was reading a lot of these books and they spoke to me on a level that was speaking to the queerness, but I was sort of coming to terms with, but they didn't actively say explicitly the characters were gay.

[00:08:40] And I certainly felt, but at the time there were no queer characters now, obviously they were like one or two. Um, but they were often so far in the background or they'd appear for like one, two issue. And men just disappear off the face of planet, particularly after they'd come out. And it just got to a point where I was just feeling like this [00:09:00] is another form of a closet.

[00:09:02] Like it's it's for a term. I like to use it is it's a glass closet. Yeah, you're still, whilst you might be able to see out and whites and people can see it and wherever you're still in the closet, you're still caged. You're still trapped. And that's what these characters start to feel. And this sort of the way everything was just always a metaphor or something like that.

[00:09:23] It just felt like another kind of closet. So when I started making comics, it was very much a conscious decision straight away was I was going to. LGBTQ characters and they were going to be explicitly and obviously LGBTQ, um, from the start, like they would never be a case of, oh, is he? Or isn't he able to be fully stated?

[00:09:47] Um, and it was never going to be a metaphor. It was always just going to be completely textual, um, because your body's something we need and. Adults. I mean like [00:10:00] kids as well, they're all quick. It's out there. They need for chance to be able to see themselves as the heroes. So, yeah, but it was a big part of deciding what I was going to do.

[00:10:12] Guido: I think that's something I love in all of the worlds you've built is they're not quite queer utopias because in all of the stories, people are dealing with prejudice and homophobia and transphobia. There, because there are fully formed characters who are out from the beginning. It feels like a bit of a utopia because we've all spent decades immersed in stories where it's subtext and you've made it text.

[00:10:40] And so there is something that feels almost aspirational to me when I read these stories, even though there are sometimes really hard, tragic things happening in them and the world is oftentimes just as shit as our world is here. So

[00:10:57] Joe Glass: it's certainly something I, I actively [00:11:00] thought about when I was starting out, particularly with the product.

[00:11:02] I mean, um, but probably in particular being my first comic and everything, there are things which nowadays looking back, I might've done differently. Um, but I think one aspect which I would always still do is it's not going to be perfect. It's not going to be an absolute utopia. Um, and people are going to face the prejudices because to me, I don't think.

[00:11:24] I, I, I do think there is absolutely a place for projects, which are like queer utopia projects, but I don't think it's entirely useful to completely ignore the reality of a situation outside the window, you know? Um, so like for me, I mean, I mean the end of the day, like I said, it was a big Marvel reader and the whole thing with Marvel was they want to show you the world outside your window superheroes and.

[00:11:48] That for me was very much something I agreed with. Um, so like you didn't have to be getting on a soap box, but you could be honest about like what kids I want queer people [00:12:00] face. And it's in a way for me, certainly. And hopefully forever is much more aspirational and empowering to see someone who is able to just overcome it or, or even just take it in their stride and just, um, fight back.

[00:12:17] In a literal or metaphor or metaphorical sense, um, against that kind of hatred towards them and how that can be really, that can be really empowering to a reader.

[00:12:30] Guido: And so when you approached creating these worlds, especially the pride though, I suspect the miracles has similar things, particularly if it continues, which I really hope it does, but in the pride you created such a world where.

[00:12:46] There there's the other teams showing up. There's these villains that we're supposed to sort of understand, have existed. Some of these characters have existed on other teams or done other work. So you created a fully fleshed world. How did you do [00:13:00] that? I mean, did you have a series Bible? Like how did you approach this

[00:13:04] kind of work?

[00:13:05] Joe Glass: I'm probably what many other creators would probably call a bad grade or in a sense? Um, I did not create a series Bible. I very much a lot of these things just come up on before. Um, the one thing, like the few notes, which I did have early on, um, when I was making a series and formulating like the, how it was going to come together was this idea about, I want it to be about a world where superheros exist and where they have existed for a long time.

[00:13:33] And. It's because part of what I want to do, as well as showing LGBTQ people, getting to beaver superheroes and be the, be the ones that the spotlight is on, et cetera. It was also a case of, this was my first book. This was my love letter to superhero comic books as well. So it was very much a case of, I want to tell.

[00:13:56] Superhero comics without being bogged down in doing like the [00:14:00] origins of superhuman. So wherever, you know, cause I think that can be a lot of fun, but like it can also get tiresome quickly because it's been done so many times. Um, so for me it was much more about just we're going to have a world where superheros exist.

[00:14:14] Um, in their fight with sons, there is a reason which I allude to in emissaries series, but I don't think anyone's picked up on it. To really just like blurt out entirely what it is, but like in my head, I know why there's a propensity for superhuman activity in that world. Um, in a way, I suppose it's a, it's a struck me more recently as similar to my hero academia, which exists in a world where superheroes are common, like superhuman abilities are common, and that was kind of the same thing with pride, but like without actually having the chance to have a conversation with that creator.

[00:14:52] I can't say I sat down and was like, right, this is why I visit. This is when it happened. You're this is the whole shebang. [00:15:00] Um, I literally just come up with things sort of on the move and in the fly. Um, similar with the characters and their backstories. I don't write the backstories. First, often, often I sort of come up with a character, the kind of person they're going to be and, um, their power set and everything.

[00:15:19] And. And, and also maybe work a little bit like what their relationships are going to be. Like, I want this character to perhaps be close with this character or something like that. And then from there I sort of look at like, right, okay, well, if I've got this and I want them to fit in this world, how does that, how else might they have connected?

[00:15:38] Cause obviously they, while we're only being introduced to them, They've presumably existed before this. So like what other things might they have done? So for me, like when I came up with the character of Wolf and how he was a character who, um, was a little jaded, um, to how things have gone about, I knew straight away, but I needed him to [00:16:00] have been doing the superhero thing for a while, and also for him to have actually possibly being on a team before and have something bad happen.

[00:16:07] So. For me, it was like, it came from the character and then working out for, right. Okay. Well, this is the general idea of a world. So how does that work?

[00:16:19] Rob: Yeah. And mirror the Miracles almost in some way, seems to be the inverse of the Pride universe in that in pride, it's established that there are all these heroes around and in the miracles, it's kind of shocking because on our.

[00:16:33] Superheroes don't exist. And of course the earth that the miracle family is coming from superheroes do exist. So how is that different for you to approach that kind of, that, that story where superheroes aren't part of the world they're

[00:16:46] Joe Glass: so it's going to sound really weird, really? Uh, probably because, um, basically V whole idea sort of comes from a childhood fantasy, basically.

[00:16:57] Like I always, you know, like, You [00:17:00] get told the little thing or like, oh little girls would like to think that they have a secret princess, but someone's going to tell them that you obviously can princess or, you know, someone's going to come in and tell you about Europe wizard. One of the, you know, not that we want to talk about that person.

[00:17:12] Um, but based on that kind of fantasy, um, I'm with something which I edited a kid was like, oh, we'll worry. If someday someone comes in and tells me about actually, I've just got a secret, super powers and stuff like this. Like, why doesn't it exist in and world, et cetera. So it was just sort of built from that.

[00:17:32] Um, and it very quickly became just, just for general idea of just like, well, there are places where superheroes are common and where superhuman abilities are common. It's just to us, both worlds are fictional. So what if those fictional characters came here? Like what if they left the comic book and came to the real world?

[00:17:53] And like, it was literally just from the, I jumped off. Came up with the whole idea of family [00:18:00] and what they dealing with, the idea of secrets, um, and exploring the idea of the drama you get from families, admit Lena's secrets in their little, um, in their own little sort of units. So yeah, it was, it was a bit different.

[00:18:17] Um, but it was kind of literally just stemmed from like childhood fantasies and just wanting to. Extrapolate upon the bomb that.

[00:18:28] Rob: Yeah. And like you said, those are universal fantasies, but I especially think as queer kids, we all have that superhero fantasy or something similar to it because we all know somewhere, as you were saying, you know, we know we're different, we know we're special and we're almost wondering, or at least I had those same thoughts as a kid.

[00:18:46] Like someone is just going to come to me one day and said, you know, the reason why you're special and different isn't because you're, you're gay, but because you're a superhero.

[00:18:54] Joe Glass: Yeah. You kind of get those sort of. Well, when you are growing up and you feel [00:19:00] different, um, you, you kind of just want someone to come into your life and tell you that you still fit and where you fit in.

[00:19:10] Um, and so that, as you say, it's a universal fantasy, um, for all kids, because I'm to it again, it's coming back to the private again, that's something I wanted to sort of make very obvious with the pride straight away was I wasn't just ranked in based with the idea. It's just for gay readers. Um, I very much was writing it with the idea without being like assimilation or anything, but having straight readers read it and totally understand.

[00:19:38] So often I present what are considered queer issues in the stories of the pride. Um, but in such a way where hopefully like a straight reader will absolutely understand it because we'll be able to relate to it. Um, so like, It's all kinds of things like how we, how I tackled, um, the question of HIV and, um, [00:20:00] how I tackled the ideas of belonging and stuff like that in the pride was in such a way, because straight people feel that too, like straight people don't have the information about HIV.

[00:20:10] Like no one's taught it. Um, so it was a case of just like, yeah. Okay. Well, everyone can relate to that because everyone really feels it. But when we talk about it together, that's when we can see. Come together and realize, oh actually, although the exact situations are different. The feelings that we're going through are the same.

[00:20:32] And if we realize what happened, hopefully we can come together and realize that we are all the same and we shouldn't be hating each other for these differences.

[00:20:43] Guido: And that was really apparent to me. And I'm not going to spoil the story, but with the plot that had to do with the role that the news played in someone's identity, that I was really struck because it felt like anyone [00:21:00] could access that story.

[00:21:01] And that understanding in our culture of media, where people are exploited and where the truth is. Used abused or twisted. It felt really relevant, even though you were telling a very specific story in that there was a way that I both for myself and other people on a whole spectrum of identities, I could imagine you can really find a way into that story.

[00:21:28] Joe Glass: Like, I mean, even outside of the LGBTQ IAA identity spectrum, you'd have the idea. That kind of element of art story. I mean, it's, it's a Meghan Markle story, you know, it's exactly, exactly. So it was kind of a case of that's a universal thing that we can all see and that perhaps if we can turn it back to the people, um, who are particularly being targeted by it, [00:22:00] um, perhaps the others who aren't my come to understand.

[00:22:04] Um, and from that, understand that. Hopefully stand up for four where brothers and sisters who are going through some radio four times at the moment.

[00:22:15] Guido: Yeah. And that understanding, I think is a huge part of the miracles, which I want to dig more into and that the miracles involves multiple universes. So, Rob, do you want to kick us off into the multi-verse?

[00:22:27] Rob: Yes. We're going to there's many colors of the rainbow and there's many universes out there. So let us explore a multi-verse.

[00:22:43] Sound effects: I am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question.

[00:22:55] What if

[00:22:57] Rob: for our exploration of [00:23:00] Multiversity, we want to get more into Joe, your conception of multiple years.

[00:23:06] Guido: So let's start with the Miracles if you don't mind. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Um, cause we, we went into it a bit. You said it was a, a childhood fantasy and I think it's so cool. How did you approach developing that story now though?

[00:23:22] So you've had this idea sort of germinating. How did you decide to, to make that work with the refugee story? This is where I think that there's an incredible understanding. Theme in that and metaphor of the refugee experience put onto this superhero cross universe experience. So can you talk us through that more,

[00:23:44] Joe Glass: um, in terms of like my sort of sense of multiverses and, um, and, and how that works and kind of how it played into the Miracles is I'm a big fan of how Grant Morrison approaches, um, multi-verse theory and [00:24:00] in terms of fiction and how, um, they also look at fictional characters as the way they treat them is that they're almost to, to them real, just as much as reality is real. And that's kind of how I wanted to approach the Miracles. Um, or at least the understanding in the first story, um, for the miracles would be this idea about your fictional worlds are real, but like from a certain perspective, we can see them.

[00:24:33] We just see them as fantasy. So that was kind of how I wanted to play with it, because then that meant that you could have people from the fantasy come to the real world, et cetera, in terms of like how that would play into the refugee angle or the story. I'll be honest. The refugee element actually came really last minute to me.

[00:24:52] Um, it sounds really that because like I say, it's, it's when you talk about the story is pretty inherently there. It's in the body of it, but [00:25:00] sometimes. When you're coming up with a story you've, you can very clearly miss for woods for the trees, you know? Um, so with, uh, the miracles, I didn't actually hit on the idea of like, oh, oh, this is a refugee story until probably just literally, probably about three months before we launched the Kickstarter.

[00:25:20] Um, and it was at that point, but I realized, oh, right in back as we right away, like need to make it so that the characters aren't or white, um, we need to make. Element of the story a little bit more obvious now because the refugee experience. Bad all over, but it's worse for people of color. So it felt to me like to try and tell a refugee story where the characters were all white, um, would be not entirely accurate.

[00:25:52] Um, now obviously we, the character, there are characters in the miracles who are part of the miracle family who are white. And [00:26:00] I think that's why I sort of have this sort of mix of, uh, We have a mix of skin tones for the family. Um, but it was just a case of just having this idea that these people have come from somewhere I'm kind of front of mind by like how to think of how to word it, because there's more to them than is revealed in the first story.

[00:26:23] I have ideas for what I want the Miracles to go. So in my head, I know. The truth about

[00:26:34] truth may not entirely be revealed in the first volume. So it's one of those things where it's just like, yeah, I, I want it just made sense then, but with our idea of a multi-verse being inclusive of fictional worlds that we are potentially in our creativity, we're accessing. A higher plane, which means that we can [00:27:00] see other worlds and to us, they are all fantasy.

[00:27:04] There are dreams, there are, uh, they're just all stories, but on some level they are real. That to me was immediately meant that if that they real, then those people are real and those people can. So that's how we sort of built into the miracles then. Um, and immediately went built into the idea of refugees of a notion didn't hit me into pretty last minute

[00:27:32] Guido: That I too love those kinds of meta narrative.

[00:27:37] And I mean, Promethea is one of my favorite comics ever. And I also love Grant's work on Multiversity in DC. It was a big inspiration for even our podcast. I mean, what do you think it is about those kinds of stories? It feels to me like they're becoming more popular. Why, why do you think that is?

[00:27:58] Joe Glass: I think [00:28:00] because right now we're living in this sort of state where things are looking pretty grim and dark. Yeah. Hmm. Um, a lot lately. And I think what a, what if story, what a big idea of unlimited possibility brings out is it returns to hope. It's a very different kind of hopeful because it's a hope that somewhere there's somewhere better. Um, not that we're going to make you better, um, because as well, This, I view the fact that things are really hard.

[00:28:35] I don't think anyone really feels like they know how to fix it. Um, like we all know, I think many of us and like, particularly both of us were like quite like wing or anything like that. Like who are often speaking to power on public platforms like Twitter or whatever. None of us are saying, but we think we would do a better job.

[00:28:54] None of us are saying that we should be in charge, blah, blah, blah. Wait [00:29:00] what you're saying, but the world's bad, right? Um, or we want it to be better, but we don't know how to make it better. Really. All we know is that this is not working. And I think then when you look at the world like that, it's so much more appealing to consider just the idea that some way they're getting it right.

[00:29:21] Um, and that some way there's bad world and there's better possibilities. When you think that there are playing. Then as soon as you start thinking, but there are places elsewhere. Then when you are, then you immediately have a possibility, but you can go there. Um, and I think that's why the idea of a multiverse is very popular in fiction and particularly popular.

[00:29:47] Now when seemingly growing in popularity now is because it's an element of hope that if, if we can't fix this place, Go somewhere else. Uh, yeah, [00:30:00] even if,

[00:30:02] Rob: yeah. And it feels like some of that is because we are now in our own silos more. It feels like I wonder if not too long ago, when we were all being exposed to the same TV shows and movies, and if you were into comics, you only had two to three publishers to really choose from.

[00:30:20] Now, you can kind of be in your own bubble in some ways and maybe you're then going, Ooh, I wonder what's I wonder what that other bubble is like over there, because this bubble is starting to not feel as good. I wonder if some of it is kind of almost a, uh, a ripple effect from us actually having a more diverse media

[00:30:41] in some ways.

[00:30:42] Joe Glass: Yeah, totally. And, and I think as well, in terms of how it's keeps on popping up in all sorts of media lately, a lot of that comes from the fact that I personally, I just think, but it's a fan fiction. People like people who wrote fan fiction yeah. More power when the internet sort of came about in a sense of [00:31:00] like they started finding communities.

[00:31:01] Um, and now those people are actually in charge, um, actual media companies now. So you kind of get, um, that whole, that whole deal where people who use. Right. Those stories on live journal or different things like that. And now actually in a position where they can make those things happen. So you kind of, that's why we're seeing so many, like crossovers and connections between things which in other media you didn't really see.

[00:31:34] Um, and I think it's because as well, like we see it more perhaps in comic related media, because it was always in the comics, like. Really much always was in the college from the start it's something which you didn't really have in TV and film, um, in one aspect simply because it's a lot more complicated to do that.

[00:31:54] Um, I mean we only real major, long running sort of connected [00:32:00] universe. I can think of with star Trek, um, in terms of TV and film and let's face it, they didn't always get it right. Like the star Trek was great and I'm massive tracking everything. Rewatching a lot of shows do to unlock that when everything you could pick out moments where it just a provider makes sense, cause free episodes to go visit stuff.

[00:32:20] Um, but like they sort of, that was like where TV and film were like starting to get the idea of it. But it's only since like the emergence of the internet and sort of fan fiction communities. Um, and now where a lot of those writers or people who learned. Through those communities and now in positions of power in, in media.

[00:32:43] But yeah, we're starting to see that kind of Multiversity connection coming through in almost everything. Um, I mean, literally I. As Riverdale then multi-verse yeah. I mean, we've done pretty much everything. I

[00:32:57] Guido: think this season is going through that and I know the [00:33:00] Archie meets Riverdale, which is an incredibly meta thing that comic just got solicited.

[00:33:04] So it's starting to be like mind breaking with the amount of layers of narrative. There are,

[00:33:11] Joe Glass: I think the last I heard they were doing time travel and honest to God. Every time I hear something about, about the show, I'm just like, what is this shit?

[00:33:20] Guido: Well, you mentioned Star Trek. Why, what are the, what are the universes you love? What are the multiverses you love? Are you, are there, what ifs or else worlds that you remember reading, like tell us about your, your relationship to multi versus,

[00:33:33] Joe Glass: um, so in terms of. Um, like the other universe has, I've always adored like, uh, obviously Marvel Universe and Star Trek with the big ones.

[00:33:43] I came into DC a lot later in life. Um, and I came into DC for Vertigo. So it was like, I came through like the adult oriented, non continuity books, um, and then came into DC universe proper because DC universe is really where the whole [00:34:00] multi-verse in comic books really sort of took a big swing. And I think, um, In terms of like the big sort of water ifs and elsewhere worlds kind of top stories.

[00:34:10] I loved, I was a big fan of the ultimate universe when it started. Um, it kind of lost its way. Um, I think I've yelled at university Marvel, of course. And, um, I love like elsewhere old stories, like, um, this is going to sound really bad cause it's going to make me sound like a massive Mark Millar fan. I don't really know.

[00:34:31] Um, I was a big fan of Red Son it's it is a really good what else, world story through. And like, you can't really go wrong with that. Um, as elsewhere tales go and I'm sure there was a never one. I really adored, but I'm. Move it away from Elseworld but from, to a thing which is basically else world, but DC don't call it that anymore.

[00:34:52] Um, I really enjoy the wonder woman earth one, um, trilogy by Grant Morrison and yeah, I thought they were absolutely [00:35:00] astounding. Um, which, like I say is, it's an interesting one. It's wonder woman following the ideas, but the initial creators of wonder woman laid down for character, which didn't follow through in main DC universe continuity.

[00:35:16] So to have this sort of set of books where in really stuck to the principles of what Wonder Woman was as a character. So that was really awesome. Plus it may not, not seen Wonder Woman run room, holding a sword all the time. And I, I, I hate Wonder Woman was sword. I don't know why to me, I'm just like, she's not Red Sonia.

[00:35:35] She's wonderful. She's got a lasso of truth. Um, so yeah, it's whether it's one of those little sort of texts I got about Wonder Woman. Um, but yeah, those are kind of like the big ones. I think for me, I am growing up. I was a bit kind of Buffy. Um, and I did love the episodes of Buffy actually, where they do go into or what if this didn't happen and stuff like that.

[00:35:58] So, yeah, I suppose we're [00:36:00] kind of a big universities for me growing up.

[00:36:03] Guido: Yeah. Those are some great examples. I agree with all of them. Um, could your work all existing one universe?

[00:36:12] Joe Glass: Definitely not all I do. Pretty, definitely all exist in different universes. Um, I would love the Pride is built in such a way where it was built in such a viral was planned spin-offs I wanted in

[00:36:31] very young mind, um, and being better than it did not realizing how comics publishing works. Um, I always felt like, oh yeah. And we'll get some other creative team and they'll do the Justice Division book. And like when we will have this book and all this. So yeah, it was, um, the Pride for me has always been built on the idea that it could become

[00:36:51] an expansive universe and it could spin off and have solar books and stuff like that. I'd love that to happen someday. [00:37:00] Um, but I don't know the logistics of that any more myself, but in terms of the other books I do within what I call queer comics, no, I quite specifically go out with the idea of each thing is its own thing.

[00:37:18] Um, And as such the world's a different quite often, like for example, like Vipers is very much set in a real world setting more. Um, it is thematically more of a Grindhouse revenge fantasy, but like I say, it definitely doesn't exist in a world with superheroes, a real, and it's very much a case of dealing with very real problems, like racism and hate crimes, et cetera.

[00:37:42] So there are. The pride. I'd love to see expand, but the other books which I've done under queer comics, definitely all do not fit with the product.

[00:37:53] Guido: Maybe there will be a Crossover style. They'll they'll all end up in

[00:37:59] Joe Glass: universe [00:38:00] inside my head. So like exactly one day I let them really manage onto the page.

[00:38:05] Met.

[00:38:08] Rob: Well, as the universe is continuing to expand in our world and your world, let us move into some pondering of possibilities.

[00:38:22] Sound effects: Will the future you'll describe

[00:38:32] Rob: And as we ponder possibilities, we want to talk about your future storytelling and what you think the future of your stories might be.

[00:38:40] Guido: Yeah. So tell us like, well, first of all, I mean, I really want to know, like what can we do to get more of the miracles? So you can, you can tell us some stuff in the, in the weeds, but then you can tell us any of your sort of loftier ideas about building story to.[00:39:00]

[00:39:00] Joe Glass: Um, I mean, in terms of getting more of a Miracles, um, the big, the big thing obviously would be just to get more people to buy it. So a book is actually available to pre-order through my website and obviously if it does really well and hopefully then I can fund or fund getting started, we'll probably have to grow fund the rest.

[00:39:18] Um, the next book and everything. Um, I'm also like open to the idea of a public. Um, taking it wrong, if nothing else to help with just logistical side of things, because I maybe don't want to try and ship if I was in books, again, I'm down to the point where I've got 280 left, but it's still like, yeah, you have to get from 720 to get there.

[00:39:39] So it's one of those things I'm just like, yeah, I could do with some help. How

[00:39:46] Guido: did that work? If you don't mind sharing what you can about the business. I'm curious, like for the Pride, how did it work to, to be a comic solid the original, but then have Dark Horse put the omnibus out this year or [00:40:00] late last year?

[00:40:01] How did that kind of

[00:40:03] Joe Glass: trajectory or? Well, the Pride started out, um, as a self published that you eat, but I was just self publishing myself. And, um, then I did a crowd funder for a collection of the first season. Um, Obviously, we call it volume then. Um, seasons terminology came in once I joined Comixology.

[00:40:23] Um, at that time, like I was putting the individual issues out on Comixology submit, which was a platform for independent creators to put they work on Comixology. Um, and they became aware of it through that and they were actually very supportive. So then when they started doing the comics, algae, originals, yeah.

[00:40:42] Um, where they want to do creator of their own stories, et cetera, and pub and act as a publisher. I, um, I approached them at thought bubble one year and it was just like, Hey, so I want it. I want in, on Comixology originals. Um, it sounds really cool, but the thing I really would love [00:41:00] to do is to continue for pride.

[00:41:01] And I know that you guys have been really supportive for Pride. Is that something you think you'd want? And thankfully they turned around inside, but yeah, absolutely. They'd love to do a second season. Um, so they essentially, um, commissioned the second season of the bride and that came out digitally first, um, on CA on Comixology's.

[00:41:22] And then as part of the Comixology, original steel is there is actually a connection to Dark Horse through van who will then handle physical releases. Um, so like everything comes out, Comixology originals as digital first, but then eventually we'll get physical release fruit, dark horse. Um, obviously we've got such a sort of long backlog of content already, Comixology originals.

[00:41:45] So everything comes out kind of, uh, a little drip fed. So Pride omniverse. Last year, um, which, um, it was Dark Horse, I think disliked it, but they would want you to do it all as one massive book. [00:42:00] Um, so yeah, that's, that's kind of how I came about the, the Dark Horse in connection literally comes through Comixology originals.

[00:42:06] They are connected in my way. There's a, there's a pipeline almost and yeah, but that's what led me today. And yeah. Um, in terms of a price is definitely going to be more pride in the. Yea. Um, the location may change, but that

[00:42:27] Guido: very cool.

[00:42:29] Rob: Yeah. I'm thinking too, your, your fellow Welsh writer, Russell T Davies has been very adamant about his work.

[00:42:40] Roles in his work only being portrayed by queer actors. If it's, I mean, if it's a queer character being portrayed by a queer actor, if your work was to be adapted to film and TV, would you want those roles to be played by queer actors and behind the scenes? Queer queer creatives?

[00:42:58] Joe Glass: Um, I mean, [00:43:00] bringing up Russell, I mean, I would love if Russell T David's one to want it to, um, headliner the pre TV series.

[00:43:07] Guido: Oh my God.

[00:43:11] Joe Glass: I was just like amazing. It would be very much a thing. Like, um, obviously contracts are contracts and deals the deals, and sometimes you don't really get a say. Um, but if I could have a say in it, the one thing I would really want to see, huh? Is four, if a price use was to exist, the pride characters to all be portrayed by LGBTQ people.

[00:43:37] And I'm not even necessarily thinking like, yo oh, back heritage was trans for, it must be a trans actress. Like I Rob a more to see still advocates of like the right doctors and the right role. But we love we're going to look in the LGBTQ community specifically. I wouldn't want to have a bunch of straight actors playing queer characters because.

[00:43:58] As much as I, like, I [00:44:00] get the argument for like, they're an active, but they play a role in everything. Like, you know, you can have absolutely have straight actors who are very good playing queer characters, but the point is if Australian to go have a job in a queer. You know, so for me, it's such an important element of the pride that they would be, but there is LGBTQ representation in the comic.

[00:44:23] It, for me, it would be very important, but there's LGBTQ voices involved in its creation of a TV show or film or whatever. Um, and that the cat, the actors portraying those characters were part of that community too, would be really important. I would agree with Russell T. Davis.

[00:44:41] Rob: Yeah. And for the younger pe- person, who's watching it too.

[00:44:45] I think it's great to see themselves in that character, but they also want to see themselves in the actor. Who's portraying that character too. I think that that really is the full picture.

[00:44:56] Joe Glass: It would be able to see themselves as not just the hero of a fiction or [00:45:00] fantasy wherever, but also be able to see like, oh, that's a possibility for me.

[00:45:03] I could be an actor I could become. Um, and do that one day. So like, it's very important to have that happen. Um, and like, you know, it's, it's also going to be, I think it would be beneficial to a lot of those actors is, um, careers as well. Excuse me. If they were able to portray like a superhero character, even if a superior character was LGBTQ.

[00:45:26] Because it might make Hollywood start to change their ideas of, oh, if someone's playing game, it can only play certain kinds of roles. If we can have like a gay actor playing a gay superhero who is totally badass and kicks button everything, then hopefully Hollywood could turn around to the idea of like, oh, actually a gay actor can be an action hero.

[00:45:46] Um, so like, um, that would be great to see because I would love to have more queer led action films. That would be amazing. Um, so yeah, hopefully, um, if

[00:45:59] Guido: Have you [00:46:00] dreamcasted Fabman in your mind before,

[00:46:02] Joe Glass: um, I've had a few ideas, um, one which always comes, uh, comes to mind is Matt Bomer I think would make a really good fat man.

[00:46:11] Cause I fit because I know Matt Bomer can play camp, um, when he needs to. And he's also kind of got the bill, like he, he could easily. Totally shredded and be Fabman so

[00:46:23] Guido: Jonathan Bailey would be another one I could imagine who, sorry, Jonathan Bailey.

[00:46:29] Joe Glass: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He he's actually, I've only recently become aware of he probably a pretty good for Fab man actually come to think of it.

[00:46:36] Yeah. Um, but yeah, there's like loads, um, who had loved to see two things like I'm like, I would totally be up for. Changing the character is what I have. You need to like less of Lil NAS, X play twink I'm fully for about,

[00:46:58] Guido: well, let's talk about [00:47:00] Young Men In Love. So this is, have you edited something before? I mean, this is right around the corner and it seems like such a huge project, the way these there's these different stories and they have thematic connections, but are different genres. I mean, tell us. Um,

[00:47:16] Joe Glass: so with Young Men, in terms of the editing, uh, I mean, like coming from self publishing, um, I've kind of only added the edited myself before.

[00:47:24] So this was kind of my first experiences. Um, well, not entirely my first experience. It was almost my first experience editing other people. Technically speaking, we did a few Pride shorts, which were written by other people. Um, Back then most of my editing just came down to right know whether this would fit in with the world, et cetera.

[00:47:44] Um, and frankly, I dealt with, uh, the writers who did post stories, um, PJ Montgomery, uh, uh, Mike Ali and Sina Grace. They all kind of totally knew what fit in the world of upright, straight away anyway. So I didn't really have to do an awful lot of heavy lifting. [00:48:00] Um, so this really was kind of a much more.

[00:48:03] Hands-on with editing than I've ever done before. Um, but thankfully, like I was, co-editing Matt Miners also, um, editing with me and he's done it a few times. So I had, um, the benefit of his experience. Um, so that helped a lot. Uh, the book itself is absolutely wonderful. Um, I think it's going to be huge, um, because it's.

[00:48:29] It's very positive. It's very sweet and it's very hopeful and those are all things we really need right now, particularly, or young LGBTQ readers, um, who are probably struggling in everywhere, rarely, but like particularly in some parts of the world. So it's this book's coming out really. I don't wanna say this book's coming in a good time, cause it's not a good time, but this has to be there, you know, but.

[00:48:58] But I'm hoping that it will [00:49:00] give a lot of readers, some joy, which is much overdue. So I I've read the book, got front to back probably five, six times now. Um, I must before like the re editing run-throughs and everything. Um, but like literally there are stories in there which still every time I read them, bring a tear to my eye just because of how purely happy.

[00:49:25] Um, cause that was very much something we wanted to do was we are using the classic romance comics of like the sixties and seventies as a springboard, but we didn't want to follow how they were exactly. Because a lot of them involve, like they were romance stories, but weed romance is kind of gone wrong.

[00:49:45] Cheating happened and, or like all kinds of like sadness, baby, there's always a female character crying on the covers. We kind of specifically were like, we don't want that. Like we want instead actual queer joy, [00:50:00] actual queer happiness, and romance, because it's so rare to see it. But what was also re um, a big part of what we want to do with this was way over.

[00:50:11] It's ready to see. There are instances of it. I mean, hard-stop is about to come out on Netflix, which obviously came from a graphic novel, probably half comic and all this. So like it's, it's out there, but a lot of this male, male queer romance, um, stuff, which is almost a genre to itself out there, it's written by women.

[00:50:30] Um, I'm like, there's nothing wrong with that. It's in fact. Fantastic. It's great. But it's out there, but what we wanted to do was we wanted to have an extra level of authenticity and have it be. These tales of romance and love, um, for all kinds of genres. Um, but by creators who identify with it and have been through those experiences, so can sort of write it well, obviously not all of them, but be not pirates.

[00:50:56] Um, they're like how the whole experience [00:51:00] queer romance and queer love queer sort of feelings of affection and that thing. And, but also like we want that spectrum of experience as well to include. The spectrum of male identity. So we have your, um, cis-gender and transgender, including like trans male and non binary creators, all taking part in this to tell our stories.

[00:51:23] Um, and hopefully that authenticity comes across and I think it will give people an extra feeling, um, of hope, which we're all needing right now. Um, so yeah, I think it's really special. Yeah. I'm really, really proud of the book though. Me and Matt and awaken the world put together and the creators who've told their stories have all done absolutely incredible jobs.

[00:51:50] And there's some art a bit, which honest to God, it's some of the best art I've ever seen. And some of it's by like relatively unknown creators. Like we want it to have [00:52:00] names, rising names and new creators in there. So there are some creators who like, until I was putting this book together, I'd never heard of.

[00:52:08] And they work is blowing me away. So like, I just so, so excited for this book and I really hope that there are comic shops everywhere buying it. Um, cause I think there are people out there who really needed and I thought it was a really, so I'm getting emotional. Um, it's something I could have done with what I was growing up and.

[00:52:36] I think these people right now who really need it. And I really hope, I really hope that there's people out there who want to provide that help and hope, uh, for people by stalking it in the comic shops, in their bookstores and providing it for, for those [00:53:00] readers who really, really need both worlds.

[00:53:04] Guido: Well, that's a beautiful gift that you are giving the world.

[00:53:07] So thank you. We're really excited about it. And hopefully everyone listening can, pre-order it ask their stores to stock it, find a way, donate it to local libraries, you know, get it out there so that people can find their way to it. But it's in the world. It will be in the world and that's thanks to you in part.

[00:53:27] And

[00:53:28] Joe Glass: you're like, where are we now? April? Yeah, not long at all. Now we're talking like just two months, two months and we get to have Young Men In Love there for pride month in comic shops. It's going to be perfect.

[00:53:43] Guido: That's amazing. So I think my last question would be, you know, you've talked a lot about hope and I'm curious what you hope

[00:53:53] people get from your work. And it's probably, you've talked about, I think, a lot of this, but just all of your [00:54:00] work overall, anything you ever do, what do you hope people get from it?

[00:54:04] Joe Glass: Um, yeah, kind of a lot of what I said about Young Men In Love, actually, um, with all my work, I just hope that people find a little bit of joy and a little bit of hope.

[00:54:16] Um, and just the empowering empowerment that comes from seeing it. Um, and particularly seeing yourself get to be the hero, um, or get to be the lead. And yeah, I hope that's the big takeaway, but anyone who finds any of my worlds, um, comes away with, but they, they can be very special to

[00:54:45] Guido: that's it. Thank you. I think you were successful and, uh, we'll keep doing everything we can to get your work out there.

[00:54:55] Joe Glass: Thank you. I really appreciate it first really kind. Thank you. [00:55:00]

[00:55:00] Guido: So is there anything else you want to share before we wrap up?

[00:55:04] Joe Glass: Uh, yeah, just totally where people can find me. Um, I'm on all the social medias and these days, um, even, even on tech talk these days.

[00:55:15] Crazy, but yeah, Joe Class Comics, uh, on TikTok uh, you can find me as at Joe Glass on Instagram or Joseph Glass on Twitter. And my website is Joe Glass comics.co.uk, where you can sign up to my newsletter where I put out every. Um, just the latest thoughts about the world around me and my projects and what's new and coming, um, which reminds me, I really need to write this week.

[00:55:48] It's those are kind of a big places of way people can find me in my work.

[00:55:52] Guido: That's amazing. And of course we encourage people to, again, pre-order upcoming miracles, [00:56:00] pre-order young men in love. Ask your stores to stock these things. For sure. And thank you gout for

[00:56:08] Rob: more Pride in the future. I

[00:56:11] Guido: think for those announcements and thank you for, uh, more than your time today.

[00:56:18] Thank you for your work. Thank you for your stories that you put

[00:56:22] Rob: out into the.

[00:56:23] Guido: Yeah, I'm, I'm, uh, you know, I'm 40 and I find it a gift to see myself in your stories. So thank you for that. And I, uh, yeah, I'm really excited. We got to spend this time together and I've been Guido

[00:56:42] Rob: and I've been, and I'm not 40.

[00:56:44] And I still put that out there too. And I also appreciate seeing that you see myself in your work and I am Rob, and that is a wrap. Dear Watchers. Thank you so much for listening. And of course the biggest thanks to our special guests, [00:57:00] Joe, thank you

[00:57:01] Joe Glass: again.

[00:57:03] Rob: We're going to link to Joe's work in the show notes so you can check it all out there.

[00:57:08] And of course you can always follow. On Twitter at Dear Watchers

[00:57:13] Guido: and we'll be back soon for another trip through the multi-verse in the meantime, keep pondering the possibilities. .