Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

Rob: Welcome to Dear Watchers, a comic book Omniverse podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.
Guido: We are traveling through the stories that make up the universes we all love and inspire us to. Your Watchers on this journey are me Guido.
Rob: And me Rob, and an extra special guest member of the Council of Watchers creator, writer, game designer, and world builder extraordinaire, Carrie Harris. Hi, Carrie.
Carrie Harris: Hi. Thanks for having me here.
Guido: Of course.
Rob: Thank you for being here. Super excited, and we're excited to learn more about you. But Guido is actually going to tell our listeners a little bit more about you first.
Guido: And there is so much to tell. So I hope I do you Justice Carrie, and all of your incredible work because Carrie Harris has done so much world building through her writing. She has a number of series. She created the Supernatural series, which is a four book series of standalone novels, but set in the same city with lots and lots of different creatures and supernatural occurrences. You wrote some, uh, of the episodes of the Remade book serial series. You wrote the Kate Grable series, starting with bad taste in Boys. I think some of your earliest writing that got published recently, the Elder God Dance Squad Illegal Aliens series a few years ago, the Demon Derby book. So you see a theme in this work, which I'm excited to probe. And then also what brought us to your writing was your work for Marvel from Aconyte Press. You wrote Xavier Institute stories twice, Liberty and justice for all, and then what I'd call it novella, uh, in the School of X series, as well as witches unleashed with Ghost Rider and the trio of supernatural women and the forthcoming Shadow Avengers set in the Marvel Crisis Protocol tabletop RPG world. It's the second book in that series, but you've also been a game designer, written RPGs. You organized a writing conference. You've worked in author, marketing. You had other very odd jobs that I'm excited to hear about. You had, at least at the time of one of these bios a day job editing papers for government and editing journals. And you once called your autobiography Full Tilt Bozo. Uh, so we are really excited.
Carrie Harris: You know, I stick with that title.
Guido: Yeah, it's a great one.
Rob: I'm exhausted just hearing all of that.
Carrie Harris: Well, I'm old. This happened over a long period of time.
Guido: Thank you.
Rob: There are lots of people who might use that word to describe themselves and have very little, uh, on their resume to talk about. So that's definitely very impressive.
Carrie Harris: I do have overachiever tendencies, I will admit that.
Guido: Well, we're all the luckier for it.
Rob: Uh, yes. And we're going to dive in deeper, Carrie, into your work in just a moment. And we've got actually three sections of the show. So first up is origins of the story, then exploring Multiversity and finally pondering possibilities. And while we normally explore alternate universes with each of these. We are thrilled to speak with you with expert world builder in each of these sections. So with that, dear Watchers, welcome to episode 43. And let's take a ride through the Omniverse, um, with Carrie Harris. Right now on this very show, you're going to get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago. So for our origins of the story, we want your origin, Carrie. So we have a few questions to kick us off. Uh, yeah.
Guido: Can you just tell us how you started thinking about your being a storyteller, you're being a world builder, and then maybe a little bit about how you work and how you do that work.
Carrie Harris: Yeah. So, um, I wrote when I was a kid. I was a comic fan. And actually, some of my first writing, I did a lot of self insert stories. Um, and the one that I remember the most, they're all gone now, which is the only reason I'm willing to talk about them in public. But the one that I remember was The Kitty and Carrie Chronicles. I was next door neighbor with Kitty Pride, and we went on adventures together, and she was my best friend.
Guido: Wow.
Carrie Harris: Yeah. So I did fanfic before. It was cool. And I knew I love to write. It was my escape. Um, and I love to read anything in speculative fiction. So anything with monsters, anything with fantasy, science fiction, magic, whatever. Um, because it's an escape. And I realized I was a good writer in freshman English. I was one of those people who, um, floated through school, and I really didn't do a whole lot of actual work. It was all really easy. And then my teacher gave me an F on my first paper, and I had never gotten enough before. I cried in public, but then I got mad. How dare she get I don't get F. And so I, uh, wrote the second paper, and she read it in front of the class, and she said, Carrie, you should be a writer. You should consider. Uh, and I came from a small town in Ohio. We didn't know any writers. That seemed about as likely as me being an astronaut. It wasn't going to happen. So I went to College, and I got a regular job for a while. And, um, I was doing, like, little bits of writing. Like, I worked for RPGs while I was in College. And, um, they paid you a couple of $100, and that was great. You had a little extra spending money, and you felt like you were cool. And I've never been cool, so I'll take anything.
Guido: Same.
Carrie Harris: Right. So, um, after my kids were born, I just did it as a hobby. But after my kids were born, I went to my husband, and I said, you know what? I need to try this. If I don't try this, I will die wondering what if which multiverse, um, leave my job and give this whole writing thing a try. And if I sold something before my kids went to school full time, I, um, wouldn't go back to work, and otherwise I would. And my eldest, uh, is 18, and I have not gone back to work.
Guido: Uh, that's amazing.
Guido: Yeah.
Carrie Harris: That's how I became a writer. And, um, world building is something you write your first book, and then you realize how bad you are at it. I sold my first book, and it came back to me from my editor, and she said, this is great. Rewrite everything. After chapter eight, she bought, like, a third of a book. She didn't even think it was a third of the book.
Guido: That's very reminiscent of your College freshman story, though, right?
Carrie Harris: I fail spectacularly.
Guido: But you also have people who see the potential, and that's really incredible.
Carrie Harris: Yeah. Well, you kind of stop and you go, okay, what I am doing is I'm not working. I need to learn how to plot and how to world build. And so you can actually, if you read my early books, you can see me learning how to do it. I get progressively better. And, uh, I feel like I'm at the point now where I almost maybe know what I'm doing, and I'm about 22, 23. I lost count. That's a good problem to have.
Rob: Yes, it is.
Carrie Harris: Yeah.
Rob: I was reading to online, um, another interview that you had given, and I loved that you were talking about worldbuilding, and you were talking about, like, you do a lot of research. Right. You were talking to the, um, police were involved in the one story, so you were talking to police officers. And I kind of also loved this thing. I had never heard of this before where you were actually putting things into Excel documents as your structure. I'd love to learn a little bit more about how that works, because that definitely feels like it's playing a role in your world building.
Carrie Harris: Right. Um, yeah, I do do a lot of research, and I especially like talking to real people. I mean, obviously with the Internet, you've got just about everything in the world at your fingertips, but it's not quite the same as being able to ask a person a question. Is this realistic? Um, so whenever possible for which is Unleashed, which is my, um, Ghost Rider story. So there's a bit. I'm, um, going to try not to spoil anything, but there's a bit, um, at a circus, and there are aerial, um, silks. So I talked to a bunch of people who do silks. Like, how do you do this? What are the pitfalls? What is easy, what is tough? Because, yeah, I watched a bajillion performers do it, but it's not the same as actually talking to somebody who knows how. Um, and then once I've gotten all of my research done, talking to, um, people, reading comics, reading a lot of comics saying, I'm working, um, which is awesome.
Guido: I'm jealous.
Carrie Harris: Yeah, I know. Then I get to the outline stage and sometimes I do it in Excel. It depends on the project, especially if it's a project with a lot of characters. And, um, also, I have a role playing game background, which you guys brought up before. So sometimes I use game mechanics to plot my books. There are a lot of really interesting mechanics about keeping, um, a story engaging. And, um, one of the ones that I really like is a mechanic that says everything is a character. So, um, your background, your setting is also a character. It affects what's happening, it creates conflict, and that's what a character does in a story. So they work the same way. So if there are a lot of settings, a lot of characters, I actually put it all in Excel and say, how is this affecting the plot? What kind of problems is this character setting or situation bringing to make things complicated? And especially when you've got a lot of people to work with, it helps make sure that they don't disapprove for 70 pages. And then you're like, Where did they go? I forgot who they were. So, yeah, I like Excel. I'm a spreadsheet person. It's kind of a purchase.
Guido: I think the game approach is part of why your worlds are so accessible, because you can find all these different ways in. But then there's something always intriguing to lead you deeper into it. And in one, uh, interview, we saw you referenced the Weston game, which Rob is too young to be familiar with, but I was a big fan of.
Carrie Harris: Also, it's not too late, Rob.
Guido: No, I told him that he needs to, and we coincidentally just thought it was like, Green Lit last year, maybe for an HBO Max series in development. So it's going to be hot again, which it should well be, because whatever teacher brought that into my life when I was in grade school. I'm very lucky because that is a puzzle box of a story, and what you're describing feels like that to me. And even if it's not explicitly in the way the Western game is just having all of these different threads and these strands of plot and character, it makes it something really rich and rewarding as a reader. So it's cool to hear how you've approached that. I'm curious. In game design, when you've written RPGs like, you're creating a world, but it's also then a world you want other people to create in. So how does that work? Tell us about that.
Carrie Harris: Um, I think the point of, um, game designs is to, um, create the threads, but let other people pull them in a novel, you're creating the threads and then resolving them, hopefully in some kind of satisfying way before the end of the book. It's kind of the same process, but you don't do the last part. I, uh, want to create games and worlds. And actually, most of what I do in RPGs is world building. That's kind of my specialty. So, um, you're trying to create worlds that give people ideas, that make people excited to play. Um, and as a gamer myself, that's what draws me to games. Sure. Um, a cool mechanic or a cool, um, um, combat system. I just lost the word system, so that's great. Not enough caffeine yet, but, um, a combat system that's interesting will draw me in. But ultimately, for me, it's the world and the characters. Um, and then one of the things that's really interesting is that I've gotten to write books that are based on games. My most recent Marvel book, um, is Shadow Avengers, which is based on a miniatures game. So you're trying to write a novel that is a good novel, hopefully, but also it brings the game to life. You play the game, and what's cool about it? What do you like? What does it feel like to play? And then how do you get that on the page? So it's a really interesting connection, um, to be able to play with, and a very different experience than writing a novel based on a comic or based on something else.
Rob: Yeah, there's almost a Multiversity, uh, to that because you're writing a novel based on a game which is based, again, on a comic book kind of connected. And it also seems just when hearing you speak to going back to Carrie and Kitty, there's such a connection there between the role playing games and fanfiction there, too, because role playing games are allowing people to run with your ideas and create their own world from that.
Carrie Harris: Oh, absolutely. And I think that's one of the things that struck me to storytelling from the beginning was I wanted to be a part of that.
Guido: Well, it's interesting hearing that, because you've also talked in interviews, and I know in, I think, Illegal Aliens, you did this explicitly about seeing yourself, seeing. I think you've described yourself at times as a middle aged soccer mom and, um, seeing yourself in books. So it's really interesting to track that from the Kitty and Carry Chronicles, where you inserted yourself into the X Men's world, to books where now you can create characters that reflect parts of who you are. How do you think about representation and identity as you develop these stories?
Carrie Harris: Well, um, I admit part of it is just completely selfish now that you've brought it up. I guess I have to confess that Kate Grebel is I was always a nerd, and nerds are not cool. So I wanted to make a story in which the nerd was the hero and she's a science nerd and one of the least cool kinds of nerds.
Rob: There are some nerds now that have a lot of cache right on the upward trajectory there.
Carrie Harris: Yeah. Street cred for science nerd still is not that high. And then legal alien was middle aged women. Usually you're the mom saying goodbye to the hero as they go off to save the world. Well, I wanted the middleaged mom to be the hero. And then with Xmen, one of my main characters is Triage. He's the healer. Uh, anytime I play a game, I play the healer. And the healer is always standing in the back waiting for everybody to get hurt so that you can heal them. You're reactive instead of Proactive. And so I wanted to write a story in which the healer was the hero. So, um, a lot of what I do, apparently, is really self serving. I'm just realizing that that's pretty sad. Um, I think ultimately, it's also about telling something true. And then I know that there are other people out there who have similar experiences. And even if you're not a science nerd or a middle aged mom or whatever, I like the underdog, and you can relate to what it's like to be the underdog of whatever way that is.
Rob: Yeah. I saw in the one interview where you also mentioned the Western game. You, uh, also mentioned the Hobbit. And that seems to be the ultimate example of the underdog as a hero. We're not going to make the six foot five handsome night the star. We're going to make the ultimate underdog being the hero of this story.
Carrie Harris: Yeah. And I think we've all felt like that at one point or another, whether it's for the same reasons that I put in my books or for a different one. But you want to make a difference, even if you feel small. So ultimately, even if I'm writing about stuff that is really not real, that's cool. I think it is.
Rob: Mhm.
Guido: Yeah. I love that relatability that you're describing. I think that's really important.
Carrie Harris: Yeah. Even if it is superheroes. And Yetis.
Guido: Well, there's obviously. I mean, there's a reason those stories, from the age of myths through to modern myths, those stories persist. And it's not just because they're entertaining, of course. So you're getting at that fact that I think it's true. Even I think that's directly related to what you were saying about this epiphany that you're selfish in your artistry, which I think is probably true of all artists. But what makes it altruistic is that by putting it out there, people can find themselves find something in your story so that even if you're not a middle aged soccer, uh, mom, even if you're not a witch, there's some other Colonel in there that everyone can access. And that's the giving part of an artist, of a writer. So thank you.
Carrie Harris: People always say you write so many different things, it's hard to know what to expect. And I'll often say, well, my books are fast paced and my books are high action, and you can expect those things. But I think, um, you can also expect that there's an emotional heart. Like, I don't want to just tell a story and have it be because these things are cool and you go off and none of it sticks. That there should be something true at the core of every story, mhm. So I guess that's my multiverse.
Rob: Well, that is a wonderful transition because we'd love to take some time going a little deeper in exploring Multiversity. I am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question what if? For our exploration of Multiversity, we want to get a bit more into your conception of multiple universes.
Guido: So before finding out about any multiple universes multiverses that you love as a fan or that you've explored, there is something that we learned about your writing, and maybe it's the Excel spreadsheet, uh, or something else. But you described that the stories you create are almost an equation that you'll take, like Detective plus zombie, throw in some, uh, Beetlejuice. And as soon as I saw that, I was like that's what, what if is doing that's what else worlds are doing. That's what alternate universes are. So can you talk a little bit about what you meant by that and what that means?
Carrie Harris: Yeah, I think all stories do that to a certain extent. Um, there's the saying that no story is new. Every story has already been told, right? Yeah, I mean, to a certain extent that's true. But nobody's told that story in the same combination. Like, some stories might have A and B, but they don't have C. And so you're trying to find your combination of elements that, uh, only you can tell. And even if two of us are telling stories about Sherlock Holmes on a spaceship, the way that I tell it is going to be very different than the way somebody else tells it just because of who you are and what you bring to the table. So, um, I think that's one of the things that makes a multiverse possible, because, um, you can share all of these elements, um, whether it's deliberate or accidental. So, um, maybe they're part of a shared multiverse, or maybe it's urban, um, fantasy books that you like, and they all feel like they could be almost from the same place. Mhm, if you boil it down, it's kind of all about the fact that the equations for those books are kind of the same. And it's a way to come up with something that's a little bit different. So even my most recent books, Shadow Avengers, is what if you took a bunch of characters from Marvel and put them together in teams that you haven't seen before? Because that's what you do in the game. In the game Crisis Protocol, the teams that you make are people who would not work with each other ever. So you're looking at new combinations of characters, and not just how do they fight together, but what does he talk about afterwards, call him in, and you're telling, it's a prose novel. There's a lot of words. They're spending time together. They have no choice, and they might not like it, but that's what makes that equation interesting.
Rob: Does mhm writing a prose novel with those characters? Does it let you explore more of those moments in between the action? Because with a comic book, there's so little real estate to have. Yes, they go on forever, but you've only got X amount of pages, X amount of panels. You've got a lot more space that you can fill. Is that one of the benefits of putting these characters into a Pros book?
Carrie Harris: Yeah, absolutely. I, um, remember thinking, so when I pitched my Xaviers Institute novel, mine was the first, um, one in the series, so there was nothing to go off of. I couldn't read what had come before. Of course, I could read other X Men novels, but, um, each line is a little different, just like each comic book run is a little different. And so one of the things that I did was I sat down and I went, okay, what does a novel do that TV shows and films and comic books can't, and it gives you the time to spend with the characters and also in the character's head. So it was an opportunity to get at a bunch of the stuff that I kind of always wondered Liberty and justice has, um, Sabertooth in it, and it's little stuff like what's, uh, in his pocket. What does he keep in his pocket? You kind of think it's probably like knives.
Guido: Entrails.
Carrie Harris: Yeah, he doesn't need bullets, but I'm like something not good. Entrails is good. I decided he's a snack. You get hungry after eviscerating a bunch of people. It happened.
Guido: Exactly.
Rob: His metabolism is probably faster with his healing powers.
Carrie Harris: Yeah, he eats, like, three times in that book because he's a good man. But you don't have the page space for that kind of thing in a comic book. Usually you might get a little scene here or there or same thing with the TV show because you have only so many minutes. So, mhm, you get an opportunity to have those moments with characters that are tiny, but, um, super fun and give you an opportunity to know them, because at the end of the day, he's a guy. He mhm gets up in the morning. He has things that he likes to do when he's not killing people. Mhm.
Guido: That'S so great. I really love that. And I can see that in your work a lot. Even the Ghost Rider, which is Unleashed. You had talked about the influence of the Witches miniseries from 2004. So having this direct comic reference of this team, but being able to explore in so much greater depth everything that's going on, you can just see the contrast in being able to create some more space in Pros. But how did it feel like that one especially. I mean, the Xaviers Institute are supposed to be able to take place within the comic universe, but which is Unleashed feels like it's really a specific moment. So how did it feel to be trying to fit something into that world, telling a big open story, but trying to fit it into before and after a Canon that people expect?
Carrie Harris: Yeah. Um, I really like Easter eggs. Um, I keep saying this, but it makes me feel cool and I need all the coolness I can get. So anytime I pick up on one, I'm like, I know what that means. It's exciting and fun to, um, pick those up, but you also want to write, especially when you're writing a novel. This is a great way for somebody who saw Marvel movie once, it was like, hey, I like that you go into a comic book store, there's tons of comics. It's a little overwhelming to know where to start, and you've missed a lot. So novels are kind of an easy way to get, like a middle ground to step towards reading more. And so you want it to have the Easter eggs and the links to Canon so that people can recognize it, but also to be accessible by somebody who doesn't have all of that background. And technically, um, these books are not aconites. Books have not been officially made Canon. We don't have a number. We say that we are as close to Canon as you can get. So if we had a number, we'd be like, 618. We are right near 616, but not officially. So I try to get as close to 616 as I can get. If I'm going to change something, I have to have a reason for it.
Guido: Yeah.
Carrie Harris: So what I do and, uh, what I did specifically for which is Unleashed was I read the mini series that you brought up the witches over and over and over again, and then the Ghost Rider. I picked a point in the Ghost Rider comics and said, this is where it will be. And it's actually Daniel Waze run. It's the Vicious Cycle, um, storyline. It's like 2004 or something like that. So they're about at the same time. They were published at about the same time. So I mhm can make the argument that these things happened simultaneously. I'm just going to say I picked an issue and it happened after that issue.
Rob: I was curious. When you're working with Marvel, and as you were saying, they're not necessarily in the six one six, but they're adjacent. You're playing in someone else's sandbox with these characters, in some cases who are decades old. Are there certain things that Marvel comes to you and says, okay, you can do this, but you can't do that, or you can't have this character. And if you do this, the Ghost to Stanley is going to come and haunt you for all eternity. So how does that work?
Carrie Harris: Oh, yeah, there's a, um, lot of back and forth before you even write a word. So lots of outlines go back and forth. This is what I'm, uh, proposing. And then they say, well, you can do X but not Y, and that may get longer and longer and longer as they go back and forth until you finally get time off. And the nice thing about that is that by the time I start writing, a lot of the holes have been patched because you're outlining it ten times. So it makes the actual process, uh, of drafting really fun, because then you can focus on making Spiderman sound like five year old because he won't stop joking. And the fun stuff, Loki sounds like a pompous yet charming ass while he's trying to stab you. So, yeah, you're going back and forth. And some of it has to do with this is the direction we want to take the character. Yours is great. That's not what we're doing. Some of it is. We have other plans, uh, for this character. You can't use them. Mhm. And it seems to be feast, um, or famine. A couple of things that I've sent in have been like, yeah, great, do that. And then the exact opposite has happened where I send it in, they're like, yeah, no, honey, no. So you kind of have to be prepared for each one, but it's not your sandbox. Like you said, that's part of the fun of working in a shared world, I think.
Rob: Do you have a preference for your original work where you can do whatever you want versus working with a company like Marvel, where you do have these restrictions, though those restrictions, as you were kind of saying, can be also liberating in some way?
Carrie Harris: Yeah. I feel very lucky that I have the opportunity to do both because they work different muscles, and it keeps, um, you from getting bored. And I think I'd have to work pretty hard to get bored writing Marvel novels, I'm going to admit. But I, um, like the ability to do different things. So, um, on a given day, like on Monday, when I go back to work, I'm going to be drafting an original fantasy book and working on pitches for licensed products. It's fun to be able to switch gears and do different things, not just different topics, but also different licenses, because they're all. It's a puzzle each time, but the puzzle is different.
Guido: It's the best of mhm. All worlds.
Carrie Harris: Yeah.
Guido: And so, as such a fan, I mean, you said you've read comics since you were young, and clearly you like a lot of nerdy media. You can see the influence of things like Buffy in a lot of your work. Are there alternate universe stories that you love? Are there multiverses? What ifs else worlds, any of these stories that you can remember being stuck in your brain?
Carrie Harris: Oh, yeah. I mean, I read whatever I can get my hands on. I think probably my favorite what if story is what if magic became a sorcerer, uh, supreme. Because she's one of my favorites. I got to write her in my first X Men book. Um, and I think she's funny. I don't think most people really get how she's funny. She doesn't mean to be, but she is and also kind of heartbreaking. And you get to see her. You get to see her grow in, um, a different way than happened since 16. And you also get to see Doctor Strange be a little vulnerable, which is mhm not often. Where he's at. Um, it's one of my favorite comics. I really like that one.
Guido: Yeah. We covered it on an episode a while back, and it was the first time Rob had read it, and we read a few related stories to it. And just the way it deals with trauma and childhood, and I'm a teacher. And the way it, um, deals with how we teach and how we take care of people growing up, it's very special. I completely agree.
Carrie Harris: Yeah. Well, and it's not easy. Oftentimes a lot of those transformation stories, it's like, hey, you're going to be this, and everything's fine now. And they go, okay, it's not how it is. And I think you're right at the core of it. It's a story about trauma and healing, and very much the, um, same thing that I tried to do with, which is Unleashed, which is all about trauma and about families. And so you try to, um, find those, like I said, that core of something that's true. And I think that's what makes me love that comic so much.
Guido: Yeah. I mean, you're talking about your love of the comics and then the stories you're creating. And then knowing that you started in Fanfiction is making me think about a conversation we recently had with another author who, uh, was talking about that. We were discussing why we think the. Why we think multiversal storytelling is becoming such a thing right now. And he posited that some of it is that the people who wrote Fanfiction are now the creators of these worlds. And ultimately, that lends itself to multiversal storytelling, because you want to imagine that happening. You want to tell that story of trauma, but that requires that you move the characters into this direction, or you want to find out, well, what if I lock this combination together like you were describing earlier? So does that ring true for you as a fan fiction writer who's now a storyteller of these, uh, characters?
Carrie Harris: Yeah, I think so. Although I'm really disappointed that I have not had the opportunity to put myself in where this should end. Uh, you guys can come to, uh, it will be fine.
Guido: Got it right to Choose Your Own Adventure.
Carrie Harris: Night has a couple Choose Your Own Adventures coming, and one of them is Deadpool. And I think he, uh, should absolutely bring the reader in.
Rob: Yeah, totally.
Carrie Harris: Uh, but no, I think part of it is fanfic that, um, people who write fanfic are very much comfortable with taking an existing property and putting a spin on it and doing something different with it. And either you have to erase all of that history, which is not great, or you have to find a way to make that work, which multiverse is a very easy way to do that. I think it's also just the number of creators, um, you've got a lot more people and also a lot more people of different backgrounds coming to play in this sandbox, whereas you have multiple writers in the past, but a lot of those, it was the same, um, handful of people. Right. Kind of all working on multiple, uh, lines at once. And so just the sheer number of people means that the, um, stories are going to diverge and that, um, you're getting voices that you didn't have before, that we arguably, um, should have had before.
Guido: Yeah, of course.
Carrie Harris: Right. So, um, I think part of it is the, um, fact that publishing is changing. And part of it is just that as readers, we want more.
Guido: Um.
Carrie Harris: It gives us an opportunity to tell stories that people really love. So when Gwen Stacy died and everybody says, oh, we want Spider, Gwen. Well, now here's a way to give you that. She's just from a different world. Mhm.
Rob: Mhm. Yeah, these other media properties, too, we're seeing in the movie Spiderman as a teenage kid, but in the comics, we don't have Spiderman as a teenage kid for decades. And these kind of new authors coming in are able to take these characters and kind of show us in new ways and old ways kind of almost at the same time.
Carrie Harris: Well, in mhm, one of the interviews that I've, um, heard that I really liked, Leah Williams, um, was talking about, to a certain extent, reclaiming some of these characters that have been not exactly given a fair shot. And, um, that you can go back and tell stories and kind of give them that ending. That's a big part of what I try to do with the witches, because that series was cut, uh, shorter than originally, uh, intended. So you didn't get to see what happens. And I wanted that. The fact that it is a multiverse that allows you to go back, maybe give us some resolution, um, that we wouldn't have had otherwise.
Guido: Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. I love everything you just described.
Rob: Well, you mentioned that you want to see yourself, maybe you'll write yourself into a future story. So let's talk a little bit about the future. I'm going to summon my magic Ileana portal, and we're going to jump into pondering possibilities.
Carrie Harris: All right.
Rob: Mhm, will the future you describe be averted? And as we ponder possibilities, we want to talk about your future storytelling and what you think the future of your stories might be.
Guido: So I have a lot I want to know. But one question I was thinking while listening to you talk is would you ever write a comic?
Carrie Harris: Mhm.
Guido: And maybe there's, uh, stuff you can't tell. Maybe you already have. I can retract my question.
Carrie Harris: No, you don't have to do that. So I have two goals for this year. Number one is to write for more licenses because I really love that and I love getting to play in other people's sandboxes. And number two is I did a graphic novel back in the day. It, um, came out and I took one look at it and I went, oh, no, I need to do this again. I did it wrong. So my second goal is I am going to write comments, I am going to do it. And it is a work in progress.
Guido: Yay, I'm so glad to hear that.
Carrie Harris: Yeah, I can't remember who said this, but we were talking about the fact that to a certain extent it feels like jumping from media to media is its own little multiverse. Because you're telling stories in a different way. It gets at different things. You can show things in comics that you can't in novels. And there are some stories that I've really wanted to tell that are very visual and just somebody, uh, give me a chance. Right?
Guido: I hope so. I can't wait. That will be a very neat new addition to your storytelling, the visual medium. Are you an artist?
Carrie Harris: No, I have a couple of teenagers who are really excellent artists. And I keep saying, so far no one has taken me up on it.
Guido: That would be so fun to see a family constructed graphic novel.
Carrie Harris: Uh.
Guido: So I want to talk a little bit more about Shadow, um, Avengers, which when this airs, I think will be out in, uh, just a few days. So it's right on the horizon.
Rob: It's actually my birthday.
Guido: Birthday.
Rob: My birthday present to the world is your fault.
Guido: So you were talking earlier about, um, how you construct unique combinations. So what's the unique combination of Shadow Avengers? What did you combine without obviously what you can tell us safely?
Carrie Harris: Yeah, well, I kind of talked about this a little bit. That Shadow Avengers. So it was kind of two unique situations. Number one, it's based on a miniature's game which I brought up and it's the second book in a series. So Stewart Moore wrote the first book. It's called Target Creed. It is excellent. If you are dying, waiting for multiverse of mammoth to come out, this is a good way to hold yourself over because it feels very much like a Marvel movie. And so, um, I needed to do something that felt like it was a part of that series. I needed to do something that felt like it was that made you want, um, to play the game. Mhm. So you have those two, um, pieces of the equation, and then what do I bring to the table? Which is, okay, I want to take a bunch of these characters and put them in situations that make them uncomfortable because, I'm mean, so I was looking for opportunities to push people out of their comfort zone. Give Doctor Strange a problem he can't solve. He doesn't usually find that. Give Spiderman somebody, um, he can't save. Put mhm, Venom and Loki together because their personalities do not mesh.
Guido: That's exciting.
Carrie Harris: And it makes the characters each kind of confront something about themselves, even though you're, you know, you're telling a story in which people jump out of airplanes and fight crocodiles and fight each other and throw dumpsters. And it's very high action, but there are also character moments in it that kind of going back to that thing I do. I hope they feel true. So, mhm, that would probably be the equation.
Guido: And so for people, I don't know a lot, I don't know anything about the book publishing world. So what's the best way to support that book? Is it order it from anywhere? Is it order it from the publisher? Like, tell us and tell listeners how to get that copy of Shadow Avengers so that it supports you, and we can see more of your work and more of the world of the Crisis Protocol book.
Carrie Harris: Yeah. I mean, reading the book anywhere helps. And if I've been in a situation where there were books that I really wanted and authors I wanted to support, and I just didn't have the cash, and there's nothing wrong with that. Go to your library and request a copy. They'll buy it, and that's very helpful. Um, so anywhere you read it, as long as you're not pirating it is terrific. But the other thing that people, um, can do, and I don't think before I was in publishing, I never understood how much it meant reviewing, even, um, if it's one sentence, this was really fun is a review and putting that, um, up. Publishers look, uh, they look at the number of reviews, they look at the number of people who took the time to click the stars. And it really does make a difference. In fact, a lot of things promotional, um, opportunities. You have to have X number of reviews before they'll even consider you.
Guido: That's good to know.
Carrie Harris: Yeah. It's much bigger than you realize. Even if it only takes 5 seconds, you don't have to do one of those big multi paragraphs. Here's the plot, and here's what I got. But if you don't want to do that, just a sentence.
Rob: I was looking at some of your mhm reviews on your Amazon this morning, and my favorite review was a person who wrote, I'm a 70 year old grandmother. So this isn't my kind of book, but I'm reading it because I want to know what the kids are reading these days that's all you need. Some of it up. You were talking about earlier about for books being what, uh, makes books stand out, too. That one place that you can get inside the characters head there. I'm curious if how you feel about virtual reality. Augmented reality, playing a role, maybe in RPGs, and I'm an RPG dummy. I'm an RPD, an RPG dummy, or even incorporating it with novels. Uh, I'm curious just thinking about the future. Is that anything that you've given any thought to?
Carrie Harris: Oh, yeah. Some of my favorite books talk about that, and they've got the Metaverse where you can live in anybody that you want to and be anyone. Um, and the seductiveness of that, um, I think it's a storyteller. It's absolutely fascinating because you have to tell a story that allows the person to breathe as a character, which means it has to be totally open world and a fully defined world. So really, it's an exercise in world building and the actual plot. You provide a starting point, but they tell their own story. So from the point of view of a game designer, that's super interesting that your challenge is to create a world that essentially is one setting for a multiverse, because every character, every player that comes in is telling their own story, which is totally different. And so it's got to be able to host that. And. Oh, my God, someone signed me up because I really was fascinating.
Guido: Did you by any chance, watch Caprica that's been off of Battlestar Galactica?
Carrie Harris: I haven't. It's on the list, but my list.
Guido: So it does what you just described. Yeah, I think that show was very ahead of, um, its time. And a large part of that show where this is not spoiling anything, is about out a virtual world and what happens. And all the characters go in and out of that world, and it's sort of the Genesis of silence. Consciousness exists in that, but there's all sorts of what you were just describing. People sort of create almost these mini games and video game like universes within this virtual universe. It's a very cool concept in that show.
Carrie Harris: Yeah. Well, I think we're getting closer to being able to do that. I'm not sure we're quite there technologically, but I can see it coming. Another book that does that, if, um, you haven't read it is Snow Crash by Neil Stevenson, which is very tongue in cheek. The main character's name is Hero protagonist, but it's all about the Metaverse and how the Metaverse can be used for good and for evil. Super fascinating.
Guido: Um, yeah, we'll have to check that out. So my last question to wrap us up is, I think we heard threads of this throughout, but if you could talk about what you hope you're writing, your work is so diverse. What's true of all of it, though? What do you hope people get out of all of your stories?
Carrie Harris: Yes. Like you Said. I Think We've Touched On It Some, But My Stories Are About The Fact That Anybody Can, um, Be The Hero, And It Does Not Matter Who Or What You Are Background Wise, but It Also, To A Certain Extent, Does Not Matter If You're Broken, You Could Be Broken And Still Be A Hero. To Me, that Was, um, What I Got Out Of Fantasy And Science Fiction When I Was A Kid, And That's What I Want To Pass On.
Guido: I Think There's No Better Time, Because It Feels For So Many, Like, Such A Fractured World To Live In. And So I Think Being Able To Understand That That Does Not Preclude You From Being A Hero Is Really Important.
Carrie Harris: Yeah, I Agree. Sometimes I Need To Hear It. Maybe I Should Read My Own Books.
Rob: You Can Write Yourself Into The Book, Then You Can Read Your Own Book.
Guido: Oh, Getting Very Meta Now.
Rob: Yes.
Carrie Harris: Uh.
Guido: So Is There Anything Else You Want To Share Before We Wrap Up?
Carrie Harris: Just that this Was Spectacularly Fun And Such A Great Conversation. I Feel Like You're Friends Now.
Guido: I Agree. Well, And Now That You Moved In Proximity To Where We Are, I Love That We're, At The Very Least, On The Same Time Zone, but We're In The Same State, So There's Great Potential.
Rob: Uh, There For A Crossover Comic Con. Yeah.
Guido: So I've Been Gito.
Rob: And I Have Been Robin. That's A Wrap. Deer Watchers. Thank You So Much For Listening. And, Of Course, A Biggest Thanks To Our Special Guest, Carey Harris. And Carrie, where Else Can People Find You On The Great Multiverse That We Call The Internet?
Carrie Harris: My Website Is Carrie Harris Books.com, But If You Want To Chat With Me, The Best Place To Go Is Twitter. Uh, I'm Carhar Carrharr, And That's Where I Go When I'm Trying To Avoid Writing It's. Honest. It's Not An Exaggeration.
Guido: Well, We Will Put Links To All Of Those In The Show Notes As Well As Links To Get Carrie's Work. And You Can Follow US On Twitter At dear Watchers.
Rob: And Please Leave A Review For US. And Leave A Review For Carrie's Books. A One Sentence Review. Even If You're A Grandmother Who Just Wants To Know What The Kids Are Listening And Reading These Days, We Really Appreciate It. And We Will Be Back Soon With Another Trip Through The Multiverse.
Guido: And In The Meantime, In The Words Of Uwatu, Keep Pondering The possibilities.