Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

Rob: Welcome to Dear Watchers, a comic book, um, Omniverse podcast, where we do a deep dive into the multiverse, where normally.
Guido: We explore the stories that came before and after an alternate universe. But we're doing something a little different today.
Rob: That's correct. Because not only is it our 50th episode wow. But it is also Pride Month here in the United States.
Guido: Yeah, we're also recording this sitting in front of the same microphone. And that's different for us.
Rob: I know we have to actually look at each other.
Guido: I don't know about this, but yeah, we have a ton of special guests. Thank you in advance. We're going to get to our guests shortly.
Rob: But cavalcade of stars.
Guido: Yeah, that's true. Uh, I'm trying to think of they're marching in our pride parades.
Rob: Yes.
Guido: I'm trying to think of a pride like marching. Oh, yeah. The Merry Marvel Marching Society. Oh, nice. All right, so this is somehow some multiversal marching pride parade.
Rob: Exactly.
Guido: And we're really excited about it. So we are going to, today, count down some of our favorite queer fictional characters. And because it's Dear Watchers and we love the multiverse and the comic book Omniverse, we're going to consider some what ifs or amalgams for each of them. And we asked our guests to do the same.
Rob: Yes, some reoccurring favorites and some new, really good friends of ours that have never been on the podcast before.
Guido: And before we get into our first guest, please remember that we appreciate any reviews. We appreciate sharing, subscribing, anything that helps spread the word if you like what you're hearing.
Rob: Because speaking of pride, we have some amazing Golden Girls meets the Avengers stickers.
Guido: We just got magnets.
Rob: We've got magnets. We've got Chucky, who is pretty queer adjacent, created by a queer creator. So we've got lots of fun stickers, magnets, and things that we can send you if you share with us a review of the podcast.
Guido: So join us as we consider what if our favorite queer characters traveled through the multiverse. I am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question.
Miguel: What if?
Guido: And up first, let's start with a clip from our dear friends at Ten Cent Takes. Mike and Jessica, make sure you follow their podcast at Ten Cent Takes. Check them out.
Jessika (Ten Cent Takes): Hello, this is Jessica Frazier from Tencent Takes, the podcast where we like to look at weird moments in comics and how they intersect with pop culture and history.
Mike (Ten Cent Takes): And as always, she's joined by everybody's favorite trash goblin, Mike Thompson.
Jessika (Ten Cent Takes): So you've asked us to name some of our favorite queer characters in fiction and come up with a what if question and an amalgam. So my character, my gay ass character is Loki Love. That guy cannot be bisexual. And my what if question is, what if loki had an absolutely irresistible crush on Captain America. Now I'm talking MCU Loki.
Mike (Ten Cent Takes): I mean, let's be honest. Like, who doesn't have a crush on Chris Evans as Captain America. At this point, I feel like just the entire MCU does not get a lie.
Jessika (Ten Cent Takes): It's America's butt. Okay?
Mike (Ten Cent Takes): That's the real reason that Civil War happened was Tony. Just couldn't have been his feelings.
Jessika (Ten Cent Takes): Loki is next on the list. What about you, Mike?
Mike (Ten Cent Takes): Okay, so this character has appeared in comics, but he's not originally a comic character. Mine is Elon Garrick from Star Trek Deep Space Nine, who is basically the closest we got to queer representation in Star Trek until the last couple of years with recent series oh, shit. Which, I mean, should not surprise anybody that spent 5 minutes talking to you where it's like, yeah, no, that's absolutely going to be your favorite fucking character if you're not familiar with him. He starts off in the show as a tailor who is left over from the Kardashian occupation on the station. And then it's very quickly revealed that he has a shadier past and was some sort of spy, but also is very clear coded. And then after the fact, Andrew Robinson, the actor who portrayed Garak, has noted that he played the character as and this is an actual quote omnisexual.
Jessika (Ten Cent Takes): Um, yes, all of the sexes same.
Miguel: Yeah.
Mike (Ten Cent Takes): So he is the Star Trek character that has launched 1000 Memes. He's very snarky and very fun, but he's also just very queer. And that said, he also is a character with a lot of depth and pain. And I think my what if question is, what if Garak had had a happy childhood growing up under the Federation as opposed to on Cardassia?
Jessika (Ten Cent Takes): And then we've decided to do a joint Amalgam.
Mike (Ten Cent Takes): So if we were going to combine Loki and Garak, the Amalgam character's name we'd come up with is Garoki. It's like a better version of Gogu.
Jessika (Ten Cent Takes): It's so much better.
Mike (Ten Cent Takes): But I mean, like, that's the character that I feel actually works really well because they're both kind of these mercurial tricksters and they just fit very well personality wise and action wise and honestly. Now I want to do a Star Trek Marvel mashup in general.
Jessika (Ten Cent Takes): That'd be cool. I'm so into that.
Mike (Ten Cent Takes): So, yeah, those are our answers for you guys. Thank you so much for having us on the show, as always.
Jessika (Ten Cent Takes): I second that.
Mike (Ten Cent Takes): And if your listeners are interested in hearing more of our show, head on over to Tencent Takes.com or just look for Ten Cent Takes on any platform except Spotify.
Rob: Thank you so much, Mike and Jessica from The Amazing Ten Cent Takes. Our best friends in podcast land. And Mike's choice of Garak made me think Andrew Robinson, the actor that plays that character, is also the star of the original Hellraiser movie, which was written and directed by Clive Barker, a queer person who also wrote comic books, too.
Guido: Yeah, I've been digging in dollar bins for some of those Clive Barker superhero Marvel books from the 90s. Perhaps ten centiques can do an episode about it sometime.
Rob: Oh, that would be amazing. And we're about to get into your first pick, guido, and I'm super surprised that you didn't choose jessica's pick of loki, being that you're such a low tom hiddleston fan.
Guido: Well, believe it or not, there are a good number of characters to choose from now, and that's exciting. But it means that I had to make some difficult choices. So I started off with wicken. Wicken from marvel comics, billy kaplan, wanda Maximov's, uh, son, kind of. And wicken is a really cool character who's only starting to get more and more used in the last few months. I think that we'll see an MCU version of him grown up a little bit in the young avengers, and I think I love his design. I like his costume. I like the way that he looks. I think he's an interesting character because I like Scarlett witch and some of her the backstory with these boys. I think it's really interesting. And it's very cool that he's queer. It's very cool that he married his partner. It's very cool that their marriage was an intergalactic event. So I'm a big fan of wicken.
Rob: And wicken the religion, I feel like, is often also associated with that's WICA, but that's often, I feel like, associated with queerness as well.
Guido: Yeah, maybe, but definitely magic that Billy has going for him. So the question I'm wondering about Wikin that I think would be interesting to see was, what if wicken became sorcerer supreme? I would love to see us explore the outer limits of Billy's powers. He's quite powerful. I also think it'd be great to position him as the center of the marvel universe in that way in terms of power and magic. So I would love to see that. And as I thought about amalgam, I tried to in my amalgams, I tried to cross the major two publishers, marvel, DC. So I thought about fusing together wicked with John constantine, another, uh, queer magic person, uh, but with a completely, uh, different personality. So I thought about a good name for them being something like WIC chaos or something. So I just think it'd be fun to fuse them together, because, again, Billy is like this super moral, very kind, heroic young person. And constantine is this very cynical, older, chaotic, uh, alcoholic person. So I think it'd be fun to mush, uh, them together and see what comes out.
Rob: I like mhm that a lot.
Guido: So who's your first choice for today?
Rob: So my first choice is I went with one of what I think of as one of the seminal clear characters in media, and it's funny. Our list. I'm only going to have one comic book character on my list, and I think you only have one non comic.
Guido: Book character on your list, so that.
Rob: Really speaks to our personalities and our interests on this podcast. But my first character is going to be Dr. Frankenferder from The Rocky Horror Show. The Rocky Horror Picture Show. And I just think Frank is just he had such a big impact on me as a, uh, kid. The first time I watched The Rocky Horror Picture Show, it was one of those movies where my parents were like, should we let him watch this? Is this too adult? And the whole time not really understanding. I think this is probably true of a lot of kids when they watch The Rocky Horror Picture Show the first time. There's a lot of stuff that you don't quite get, but it's still very interesting. It's very exciting. And of course, Tim Curry, as that character is so dynamic and dangerous and enticing. And it's since become a movie that I watch usually at least once a year. And I can put on that soundtrack. And I love musicals, but I also love raw, gritty rock and roll. And I think that really combines those two for me. So that character is so great. And for me, I would say my what if question would be what if Brad and Janet's car hadn't broken down that night?
Guido: What if Frank's plan played out without their income?
Rob: Exactly. Because really it's Brad and Janet showing up at the old dark, uh, house that really creates the problem there. So maybe Frank would have just created Rocky and they would have been happy together. Or maybe the aliens would have taken over the world and Riff Raff and Magenta would have never turned on Frank because so much of the action really hinges on this straight couple of Brad and Janet showing up at the house. So I think it would be interesting if they never showed up there and see what would happen. And my amalgam for Frank, and this was actually one that you suggested to me would be Frank and Dr. Doom because I think they both have this mad scientist quality. Dr. Doom, of course, is known for creating robots and replicants and things like that. And Frank is creating Rocky, who's not a robot or a replicant, but is this artificial creation. And they're both basically rulers of these other countries, latvaria and Transsexual, Transylvania. I always think of Frank is kind of the king of that world.
Guido: I also both kind of have three names. Mhm, Victor von Duke, Frank Franker.
Rob: And even Dr. Doom has his right hand lackeys that are from Latvia. And and you can almost see that as being Riff Raff and the gentleman.
Guido: What'S the character's name?
Rob: So the character's name I came up with would just be Frank and Doom.
Guido: Yeah, dr. Franken Doom.
Rob: Doctor Frank and Doom.
Guido: Yes, that's right. Correct. I like it. All right, well, why don't we hear from our next guest? Or coincidentally that he chose it also, but not a coincidence that we timed it this way. Our next guest, Liam James from the their Queer podcast. You can find them on Twitter at their queer T-H-E-Y-R-E. Queer. A horror podcast that we've loved getting into. Liam has shared his choice and you'll hear some connection. Hi, Guido and Rob.
Liam (They're Queer): It's Liam J from the very Queer podcast. My favorite queer character, um, in all of fiction is Dr. Frankenferter from The Rocky Horror Picture Show. I do credit that movie for making me queer and actually informed a lot of who I am today. So read into that however you want to. My what if question, Mary, is my two favorite pieces of media in the world, the X men and Rocky Horror. So what if Dr. Frank and Further join, um, the Star Jammers. Could you imagine the look on Scott and Alex's face when the dad comes back from being a space pirate, but with a different kind of booty and toe? I'm also imagining like a vogue battle between Frank and Empress Laundry, and it's bringing me so much joy. Also, if we were to create an amalgam, um, character with Frank, I think it would have to be none other than the goth liberace himself, Mr. Sinister. So the character would be called, like, Dr. Sin and Stir, something like that. Um, that's about as creative as I can get right now. They'd have the most incredible cape known to mutant kind. It makes me think of an amalgamation then of his marauders, but mixed with, like, Riff Raff, Magenta, and Columbia. And it's just making me so happy. And I really want to start writing it. But yeah. Anyway, keep up the amazing work. You know that I'm a huge fan. I'm a huge comic book, um, nerd, and not a lot of people know that about me. And happy pride month.
Christian Fuscarino: Bye.
Rob: Great choice, Liam. I agree 100%.
Guido: And that cape would indeed be pretty awesome. So I think a lot of the choices we're hearing tonight, we might have to commission some art for. Definitely Dr. Sin and Stir is one of them. Make sure to follow Liam James online and listen to their queer.
Rob: I think you really have to say it, though. Their queer.
Guido: Yeah.
Rob: Caroline Intonation in there. And I also think Dr. Sip it sounds like a cocktail to me too. I think that makes it also work on another level as well.
Guido: Well, it's kind of like sit and spin too. Isn't that a way of telling someone off?
Rob: I've never heard that.
Guido: I think it is.
Rob: Well, thank you, Liam. And now we're going to move on to, uh, our next pair.
Guido: I started the first round. You start this one.
Rob: Yes. And this is my only comic book character. But it is not a superhero character. It's a little off the beaten path. And this character, his name is Robert Black, and he is the protagonist of Alan Moore's amazing comic, Providence. And Providence basically tells the story of a New York City, uh, writer who sets out to write the great American novel. And along the way, he encounters the hidden parts of America that actually are at the root of the HP. Lovecraft stories. And he winds up meeting HP. Lovecraft.
Guido: Why did you choose them?
Rob: So this character is really interesting because he is a closeted queer character. The story takes place in the early nineteen hundred s, twenty s, thirty s in America. And when we meet the character, his lover has died, probably killed himself. And throughout this comic, Allan Moore puts in these back matter in the form of journals from Robert Black that he has written. And he's only referring to his lover as Lily, and he uses female pronouns. But then as the story kind of evolves, we discover, oh, he's probably doing this in case anyone ever found his journal, he needs to cover it up that he had this male lover. So he creates this fake name. And then what's really striking in this comic is that Robert Black discovers he meets a cop who he has, uh, kind of a flirtatious relationship with. He does have another lover that he meets along the way. And really what's interesting is that more really puts a lot of the sexuality or lack of sexuality in those lovecraft stories and really turns it on its head. So I think it's a really interesting because I haven't seen this queer protagonist who is also Jewish as well, and he's also keeping that a secret as well. He's not letting people know about that. So he's got these two things that are kind of bubbling under the surface.
Guido: So how are you sending, um, him into the multiverse today?
Rob: So I'm sending him into the multiverse, um, with the basic question of, uh, what if Lily the name of his lover? What if Lily had never died? So for that, it would be that Robert never set out on his journey to write to this novel and never discovered the secret hidden histories of America. Because what ends up happening is that Robert writes these secret histories down in his journal, and then he gives that journal to lovecraft and more basically sets up that lovecraft got all of these great stories about the elder gods and the Wheatleys from Black's journal. So if Lily never died and Robert never set out on his journey, would we have ever gotten the HP. Lovecraft stories? We might never have ever seen them. So I think that's just super interesting. And my amalgam would be pairing Robert Black with Batman. And I say that because Robert is this investigative journalist, and Batman, Bruce, is, of course, the world's greatest detective. So I see a combo there. And also, Batman is, of course, driven by the death of a loved one, and so is Robert. So there's a combo combination there. And I would, of course, call them Bruce Black.
Guido: Interesting. All right, I don't think we'll ever get to see that.
Rob: No, I don't think so but a nice out of the box pick from me. So, Guido, uh, what is your second pick?
Guido: My second pick is the DC Comics character Extraneo, Gregorio de la Vega. So Extrano, uh, debuted during the Millennium event in the late 1980s as part of the New Guardians, which was a really kooky kooky crew. There's a fantastic tencent takes episode about the New Guardians that you can get some of their backstory. But Extrano is known pretty widely as probably the first out major superhero character. He's written still, though quite coded, though, obviously out. There's all sorts of odd stories in there that have to do with HIV and vampires, and it gets strange. But he is a cool Latinx character that is really flamboyant and likes to be called Ante, and is just a fantastic representation of a character that, uh, is Latinx and very, very gay.
Rob: And he had a great story in last year's DC Pride.
Guido: Yeah, he has been very underused for a long time. Steve Orlando brought him back pretty much for the Midnight or Apollo series. And then in that DC Pride issue, wrote a short story of him. And then he showed up in the story in that issue that assembled, uh, the Justice League, Queer, the JLQ, and he became kind of the older generation leading everyone else. He's now married to Tasmanian Devil, not the Warner Bros. Cartoon character, the DC Comics character.
Rob: And he's in HIV positive character.
Guido: I don't know if canonically he is now. There's weird stuff with New Guardians and I don't know what his status now is in universe, but that's part of his story at some point, something that.
Rob: I don't know, I would imagine almost no other comic book character superhero character has ever been would be HIV positive.
Guido: Yeah. So what I would like to know is, what if Extraneo was a founding member of the Justice League? So thinking of some of the classic what ifs where you reposition who formed a team or who was present when a team formed, I'm wondering what would have happened if Extraneo joined that original crew. And I think there'd be a fun Silver Age story to tell in there. And then as I thought about Amalgam, I could not think of anyone but Agatha Harkness for Extraneo. And we would get Tia Extrano. So we could get our Ante, and it would be mixed with the magical Agatha Harkness. A little bit of that old dowager feeling. Uh, but with our Extraneo that we know and love. Flamboyantly there. I'm picturing the Astrologer.
Rob: Oh, Walter, uh, Mikado.
Guido: Yes, totally. Very Walter McAdow vibes in our Tia Extraneous. If we got that Amalgam, do you.
Rob: Think that on the Justice League there would have been a member he would have clashed with who was closed minded? Hal Jordan, maybe.
Guido: I don't know. He's someone I think people often assign to a perhaps more conservative or closed minded view. I don't know. If that's true or not. So I don't know. I don't know the Silverado Justice League well enough to say, but I like to imagine he would clash with no one.
Rob: Me, too.
Guido: They would all embrace his flamboyance, and he would also be a non white person of color, joining, uh, the, uh, Justice League, which was not something that was happening then, either. So next up and good segue here we have my good friend for many years passed through Gay Geeks of New York. We have Miguel Morales, who's also a comic book artist in his own right. You can find him on Twitter at comics guy comics with an X 78 comics Guy 78. And Miguel has a character to share.
Miguel: Hey, Guido, thanks for allowing me this opportunity. I am honored to be a part, um, of this pride celebration. So the character I chose was Richter, and I love him because he is one of the first characters that I knew was queer via subtext, and that was during a time when we were severely starved for representation. I mean, the only gay character we had that was out was North Star. Uh, and it wasn't even mentioned very often. So not only is Richter day, he's also Latinx, which is something else I share in common with him. Um, and what made him such a fascinating character was really how his relationship with Shadowstar was being played out across multiple writers. Um, while Marvel was still operating under the comics Code authority, the ball that Fabianza dropped that then was picked up by Jeff Loe that was ultimately resolved with Peter David. Anyway, so I just finished Love Victor, and I'm thinking my what if is going to be kind of more of a what if amalgam called Love Richter. Um, and it's Richter going through similar high school shenanigans like dating Rain as his beard will falling for Too Cool for School Star and other typical teen soap opera elements. Thanks for letting me participate, and have a happy Friday.
Rob: Thank you, Miguel. I, um, really want to watch Love Richter. I think it's, uh, going to more.
Guido: Than Love Victor, which we did watch, but I think Love Victor sounds much better.
Rob: But I think if you add in some superhero powers, it's really going to up the stakes of that show a lot.
Guido: Yes. Agreed. So make sure to follow Miguel online comicsguy 78 comics with an X. And thank you, Miguel. All right, so on to our third choices. I'll start us off this time. I am going with John Kent. John Kent, superman amazing bisexual, out with his boyfriend. Fantastic character Tom Taylor has been writing. I think most people probably know this because it gets lots of national attention that we have our queer Superman, and I love him, of course.
Rob: Mhm you and I have been also watching Superman and Lois, which is kind of a different John Kent. Do you think maybe would you like to see that John Kent also be bisexual or gay on that show?
Guido: Well, the actor was asked, actually, when John Kent became Superman and the star of, uh, the comic that he is. And the actor said he'd love to explore that. I mean, sure, it'd be fun to explore that on the show. There's not a whole lot of queerness on the show. There's the bisexual or pansexual girlfriend, but that's about it. So it would be fun.
Rob: What would be fun on that show is that the John there is the jock, and he's the more typically straight brother.
Guido: The other brother is the moody, dirty, dirty one.
Rob: So it'd be a nice changing of stereotypes.
Guido: Uh, there true. So, yeah, I love that we're just at the beginning of John Kent, I think. I think that Jon will be Superman for some time. And I think it's amazing that that's the case. He's a great character, uh, great costume design, great super attractive, very sexy character. And obviously Tom Taylor writing him as perfection. So when I was thinking about what story I'd like to see him in the multiverse, I thought about some of the DC elseworlds and elsewhere's had a lot of time travel. So we even just picked up a hard copy of Superman being in the Civil War. We know, of course, Gotham by Gaslight, so lots of famous elseworlds with time. So I thought, what if John had existed, been born pre Stonewall? So what if we took mhm, the story of John Kent, this son of Superman who gets sent into outer space ages, rapidly comes back. But what if that happened pre Stonewall or just earlier in queer liberation? And I think that would be an interesting story to tell because you have this fully realized super moral hero who is completely comfortable with his sexuality, existing in a time when that is not the norm.
Rob: That kind of feels like a story I feel like we could maybe see, given that DC has been so amazing about putting these clear stories forward and also is so into different timelines and alternate universes. I can totally see that as a story.
Guido: Yeah, here's hoping. And when I thought about an Amalgam for John, so this was hard because it's like he's essentially Superman. I was trying to think what it is about John that makes him different from Clark. And I think it's that he is an activist. He is a truly dedicated activist. He wants to save humanity. And I think Cal is a hero and loves humanity and believes in humanity. But I don't think he sees himself as an activist looking to create change. So I was trying to think of a good foil. And as everyone knows who listens, I'm a huge X Men fan. So I was trying to go through the Xmen roster and I landed on a favorite, a controversial favorite of mine, which is Quentin Choir. And thinking about this character who is also quite powerful. So he is an omega level mutant and is young and has lots of young idealism, but much more of a negative view. A sort of almost Randian view. He wants lots of individualism. He wants to sort of deconstruct systems. Uh, he becomes a villain in lots of ways. Um, he's just a jerk in a lot of ways. So I thought it'd be interesting to have the two of them fused together. And I thought maybe a name, something like Super Omega. Not the most exciting name, but Quentin is kid, uh, Omega. And John is Superman on the Superman and Lois show.
Rob: When we get Bizarro John, he's got a little bit of a quintinquiry.
Guido: That's true. Yes. I think they were going for a 90 superboy look. But yes, maybe that was in my brain and inspired the Quentin Amalgam. So who is your third pick?
Rob: So for my third pick, we are going to find the third star on the left and go straight onto morning into a queer coded character. But I'm going to choose him as a queer character. And that is Captain Hook from Peter Pan. But I'm going to be really specific here and say it is Captain Hook as portrayed by Cyril Ricard in the Mary Martin live musical version of Peter Pan, which was recorded for television back in the 50s or sixty s. And I watched this so much growing up. And Captain Hook has always been portrayed as a dandy and a bit of a FOP also in the Disney movie as well, and in Hook with Dustin Hoffman. But if anyone knows this original musical version and Cyril Ricard's performance as Captain Hook, there is no denying 100% that he is portraying it as a huge queen. It's just inherent in his portrayal. And Cyril Ricard was married to a woman. But I was doing a little bit of research and it is widely known that he was bisexual. The New York City LGBT sites does list him as a queer person. So, uh, he was part of the community. And there is a scene in the musical where he is lusting after a woman, but it's actually Peter in disguise as a woman who's being played by a woman. Played by a woman.
Guido: So there's lots of weird gender totally stuff. Yeah.
Rob: But anyone should watch. I'm, uh, sure it's online where you can watch. His performance as Captain Hook had a huge impact on me as a kid. And my what if question would be, what if Captain Hook killed Peter Pan? Because so much of Captain Hook's identity is tied up in killing Peter. So what would he do if he killed Peter? I feel like his just live his.
Guido: Life with his partner's name.
Rob: Exactly, his partner. Because I was thinking there's no adult women in Neverland. It's just him and he's on the ship with all these male pirates. Would he be happy? Would he be restless because he has nothing to do. It's almost like he goes into early.
Guido: Retirement and is like, 20 our flag means death thing. Totally picturing as adulthood.
Rob: A great companion for that. And I'm going to agree with Liam and choose a person, uh, he used for his amalgam. And that is Mr. Uh, Sinister.
Guido: And this is not the last time we're hearing about him.
Rob: Well, he's a great queer or queer esque character in comics. But also I was thinking, well, Captain Hook and Mr. Sinister both come from Victorian times. They have that link. And also Mr. Sinister is obsessed with the Summers and Captain Hook is obsessed with Peter Pan. Like, both of their identities are so much tied up in that kind of obsession. And of course, he could either be Mr. Hook or Captain Sinister.
Guido: All right, that's a fun character design. So on to our next guest. Our next guest is friend of the show past guest, Art from Alphabet Flight. The Alphabet Flight podcast goes through the official handbook of the Marvel Universe. Find them on Twitter at alphabet flight. And let's hear who Art chose to share with us.
Art (Alphabet Flight): Hi, my name is Art. And yeah, with this little thing, uh, I'd like to say that my favorite queer character, um, would probably be Tong. They're from FF or Future Foundation, and they are a transgender molloid. There's just such a cute little thing in FF. It's the not the Hickman run, but it's the one that's written by Matt Fraction, which, you know, is good. And Inker, uh, is Joe Quinoa. Colorist is Laura Alred, which is probably why I think Mike Aldred did this originally, but just Laura, um, Aldred. They always work together, so the colors are pretty good. Clayton Cows is the letterer, who you will see in a lot of letters. Yeah, but Tong is transgender. And the thing I liked about it, uh, because it's just this cute little thing. And it was a little bit before, I think, because Matt Fraction is a good writer and was always kind of plugged into these things. But it was a little bit before, I think people really thought in the mainstream about, uh, transgender folks as nearly as much as they do now. But, yeah, to answer the first question further, what if it's going to be based off of how they were saved in the first place? So they were rescued by the Thing and taken in by the Fantastic Four because they're, like, highly evolved, more Lloyds. Most more Loads are a little bit more evolved, a little less intelligent, uh, more subservient and whatnot. And my what if for them would be what if Tong and their brothers never left the forgotten, uh, city of the High Evolutionary? I feel like that would be a fun little thing to explore because they're smart little cookies. They wouldn't be in the FF if they weren't. Uh, and it would be interesting to see what they would do. Now, what I would do to Amalgamate, um, is I would actually do I guess this is more of an infinity, um, warps thing, where you're combining two existing characters in the Marvel universe. But what I would do, actually, is I would combine Tong and their brothers core, Mick, uh, and Turge with the Power Pack, because we already have two, uh, of them, and the Future Foundation. It's just be fun. Um, to do Tong would be combined, uh, with Katie Power, uh, because she's the best, and I, uh, like Tong the most. Then I think that would be fun. Core would be combined with I would say Core would be combined with Julie. Core is pretty cool. Core likes, like, romantic comedies and likes games of chance and stuff like that. Now, Mick, uh, would 100% be combined with Alex Power, because, first off, it's the tall one. Um, he's like the tall one, and also, he just gives off, like, this really fun vibe. And I think Alex would be, um, a good combination with it. And Jack would be combined with Turge, because church is just ahead. He's just ahead and, like, a floating thing. And I just think it'd be funny to see Jack. Also, Jack is my least favorite out of all the Power Pack. Not to say that I don't like him, uh, but he's definitely my least, um, favorite. So thank you for having me on this episode. And happy pride.
Rob: Thank you so much, Art. Uh, and please check out Alphabet Flight. We have been guests on that show. Guido and I are both huge fans of the Marvel Handbook as well. And I was less familiar with I'm less familiar with Power Pack and the Future Foundation. But I know Guido, you know these characters a little bit better.
Guido: Yeah. And it's a real fun matchup in there, exploring the personalities of these characters who sort of live at the fringe of aren't the main central focus characters, but I think match really well. So I'd love to see the molloid Power Pack mashup that Art talked to us about. And let's get to our fourth pair, our second to last. Who's your choice?
Rob: Well, for my next choice, mother has arrived.
Guido: No, that's from Drag Race.
Rob: I know, but close enough.
Guido: What's your name?
Rob: That is with ornatia the head? Vivacious. I met her.
Guido: All right, well, anyway, got back to your choice. Who is not Vivacious? That we love Vivacious. Who is your choice?
Rob: My choice is Electra Abundance, as portrayed by Dominique Jackson on the television show Pose. And this is just such a great character. I'm always really attracted to characters that walk the line between villain and good guy and also kind of go back and forth and never really become good guys. And that is so true of Electra on Pose. She really starts as the antagonist, really, on the first season, and really then mellows and becomes part of the gang as the show progresses, but never really loses that edge. And Dominic Jackson is just so amazing in great comedy.
Guido: My gosh, such good comedy. In addition to just being gorgeous and having incredible looks, uh, all the time, she is so funny.
Rob: And in a show that can often be a little bit heavier, I think she brought so much levity and also still has some super serious, dramatic, moving storylines of her own on there. But her lines, every single line that comes out of her mouth is amazing. And she was also on American Gods, a show based on a comic book.
Guido: She's long been fancasted for Storm, Aurora Monroe. Uh, I would be dreamy, but I'd.
Rob: Love to see her. I think she really fits the kind of Marvel bit tongue in the cheek, that sardonic quality that a lot of the Marvel actors have. And I would love to see her in one of the MCU movies, a Storm or as somebody else.
Guido: And what's the multiverse you are imagining her in?
Rob: So my multiverse is going back to her being this kind of on the edge of being a hero and villain. I'm going to say, what if Electra had remained a villain? Because on the show, on Pose, she then becomes a great good guy. She pays for Blanca's wedding on the show, or not Blanca's wedding, but she gives money to everyone. She really helps. But I would love to see if she kind of remained an antagonist. Where would that go on the show?
Guido: Or what would be really fun is if it even went, um, further and was just no longer realistic, which the show was pretty camp at times. And she became like a supervillain.
Rob: Yes.
Guido: What would it be like if she just wanted to take over the world?
Rob: I love to see that.
Guido: That would be really fun.
Rob: Yeah. And that works perfectly with My Amalgam, because I'm not putting her with Storm. I'm putting her with a supervillain. A supervillain I think we're going to hear a little bit more about in a bit. But that is Mystique. And I think this is a great pairing because one thing we know about Mystique is that she is treacherous. She's always looking out for herself. But she has this connection to her children, especially her daughter, Rogue. And that is very true of Elektra. And she's always looking out for herself, number one. But she's also very protective of Blanca. And I also think there could be a very interesting, uh, allegory between shapeshifting and transness as well, that you could portray. I think she would be dominic Jackson would be an amazing Mystique if they ever chose to bring that character back into the movies.
Guido: Oh, they will. But Gito, what a coincidence.
Rob: Who's your character?
Guido: My fourth choice and this was, uh, not planned, is Mystique. My fourth choice for queer characters I love is Raven Dark Home. I think she's become an increasingly amazing character. I was always drawn to her, as I think most people who were drawn to her were because she was just a fabulous villain. She was just really quite evil. Her design is amazing. The white dress, the skulls on her belt, the skull on her head, the hair versus the skin tone. As a huge fan of Rogue, I was always interested in Mystique as part of that backstory. Once that gets revealed in the coded relationship that is now thankfully explicit between her and Destiny, makes her a fantastic queer character. She's good at times, the antihero at times. She's being forced to be good at times. She's manipulative always, though. So I think she's such an interesting, fun character, who, in the last few years, has become even more so in the cricoa era of X Men, and.
Rob: Yet has never really been done super well on screen.
Guido: Rebecca Romaine is awesome as Ms. Yeah, she just doesn't have a lot to do. But I think that was great casting. I think. I don't even mind the strange look thing with her powers and the scales and stuff. I think it works well. The character just has very you don't.
Rob: Get to see the depth. I also like the look a lot with that, but you don't get to see the depth there that you're especially now seeing in the current compound.
Guido: And we won't even discuss Jennifer Lawrence. That is a complete sin that I don't want to exist in my multiverse, that Earth gets destroyed. So what I'm wondering is inspired a little bit by the start of the Immortal Xmen comic, the recent new series from Kieran Gillen. So if you haven't read that first issue and you want to, this might be a minor spoiler, but it's been a few months, so you should have read it. What if Mystique formed the X Men with Mr. Sinister 100 years ago? And so at the start of Immortal Xmen, we discover that Destiny met Sinister back in the turn of the century times. Mystique was alive, destiny was alive. Uh, Sinister was alive and had this relationship. And we also recently covered what if Mr. Sinister formed the X Men, the what if issue, on our podcast. So I was just starting to think, well, if Mystique and Sinister came together and started to form the Xmen early on, that would have been a real interesting team. It would have been very self serving, perhaps villainous, but it would have been very cool to see them work together on that. And then as I thought about an Amalgam again wanting to go into DC, I thought of a character who, um, I'm not the biggest fan of, but I can appreciate why people are a fan of her, and that's Harley Quinn. And I just thought, Harley has mhm sort of the more, I don't know, rugged or raw personality traits that Mystique has. So I think they're very similar in that they're characters who have a lot of emotional depth and people can connect to and have their own motivations, but are kind of also ultimately out for themselves. That's what makes them pretty much villains, but villains that are more antiheroes that we love. And so, I don't know, there's something about Harley that feels like the younger, punkier version of Mystique, and so I thought they'd be interesting. They also just have such cool, colorful designs. Harley, with her white skin, but always wearing red and black. And then, of course, Mystique with her blue skin, often wearing white.
Rob: And in the earlier days of both of their appearances, they were kind of playing second banana to a powerful man. Right? Mystique was next to Magneto, or at least that's how often how they even portrayed it in the movies.
Guido: And then, yeah, that's not true in the comics.
Rob: But yes, but now have really kind of come both into their own as a powerful entity, onto themselves.
Guido: Yeah. In the comics, though, that's not true for Mystique, but definitely true for Harley. So for a name, I just thought since Harley has the last name with the Q anyway, and Mystique has the Q, I just thought Harley yeah, it.
Rob: Doesn'T have to sound like perfume or something like that.
Guido: I thought it sounded more like an illness or some symptom. But anyway, that's My Amalgam. That's Harley. And on to our next guest, who, again, unplanned, coincidentally, we're going to hear about Mystique from the one and only guest of the show, great friend to the show, author of X Men books, author of Avengers books, Carrie Harris. Uh, let's hear what Carrie has to share.
Carrie Harris: My name is Carrie Harris, and I'm the author of Marvel novels like Shadow Avengers and Witches Unleashed. And I'm here to talk about one of my favorite LGBTQ characters. For Pride month, I picked Mystique. And so one of the things that I've always wondered about is what if Mystique was divested of her mutant power? She couldn't shape change anymore. I think she'd still be formidable. Um, a lot of Mystique's power, um, comes from her intelligence. And even if she couldn't shape change, um, I think she could still make a serious difference. I certainly wouldn't want to square up against her. But also, I'm a wife. And then thinking about, um, what if Mystique was mashed up with another character? We've seen Rogue absorb Mystique's powers, but what if Mystique was able somehow to absorb Rogue's, uh, powers on a permanent basis? I think she'd be seriously op because she could literally duplicate any mutant in existence. Not just how they look, but also their abilities. And that's something I'd like to see. Happy Pride, everyone. Uh, and thanks so much for having me.
Rob: Thank, uh, you so much, Carrie. That's the end of our Mystique block there. But I love the idea of Mystique absorbing Rogue's powers. And not only, uh, being able to look like all these other superheroes, but also being able to replicate their powers at the same time. I think that is a story just waiting to be written.
Guido: Yes. So, Carrie, go ahead.
Rob: You have our permission. Go ahead.
Guido: We look forward to your telling that story one day in one of your greatest.
Rob: Totally.
Guido: Follow Carrie on Twitter. C-A-R-R-H-A-R-R carrie Harris. Thank you. And onto our final picks for our Pride episode. Our last choice is my one and only non comic book related choice. So I'm going to kick us off. I have Dr. Septimus Pretorius from The Bride of Frankenstein. And I chose Doctor Pretorius because, uh, we are both obsessed with Dr. Pretorius. And I think seeing Bride of Frankenstein, I think most people feel this way, actually, I think we just heard them on their queer say something similar. Seeing Bride of Frankenstein is sort of a revelation. I think you don't realize just how I don't even know if I'd call it campy, but how over the top and amazing a classic old universal horror movie like that can be. And Pretorious is the main reason why, as portrayed by Ernest Thesiger, who we are also obsessed with. Our dog is named after him.
Rob: We have some of his paintings, painting, autographs.
Guido: And we are huge fans of this out queer actor in the 1930s, friends with the queen, big into embroidery, bringing that onto sets with him. I mean, he's amazing. Bride of Frankenstein, directed by an out gay director. It really is so queer and just revelatory. But Pretorius is so camp, so villainous and delicious and delightful and twisted and weird and has a great look and has great lines. So I had to go with Pretorius as my non comic book, but should be a comic book character.
Rob: And I think a nice companion character to that is. He also plays a very clear coded character in another James Whale movie, the old Dark House. Definitely catches that for another episode. And also, I was thinking, just as you're saying that as queer people, we really choose our family. And there is kind of a dark, twisted storyline with that in Bride Frankenstein.
Guido: Totally. Well, there's so many lines that you can't imagine that they weren't written by a gay man with some knowing, uh, nudge nudge lines about creating a family and what that means between Pretorius and Dr. Frankenstein. It really is fascinating. Anyway, if I were to imagine Septimus Pretorius in a comic book universe in a multiverse, I would want to know, what if Pretorius gave himself powers? So in the movie, he ends up creating these weird little creatures that live under glass. He's experimenting in all these hideous, grotesque ways. So what if he was able to give himself powers? Is a story I want someone to write in comic book form.
Rob: Yeah, totally. And for anyone who hasn't watched Bryan Frankenstein, it's also about 65 minutes long. It's basically three eternals, more or less in the time most Marvel movies you can watch. Yeah, exactly. So definitely check it out.
Guido: So that's my what if for Pretorious and then my Amalgam returns us to the common character that we keep bringing up here, mr. Sinister. Clearly everyone loves Mr. Sinister. Clearly everyone wants to see Mr. Sinister fused with all these different people. I would like to see Pretorious and Sinister combined. I kind of think they basically are already each other. If Pretorius gave himself powers, I think he would just be Mr. Sinister. And so I really would like someone to write and draw me, Dr. Septimus Sinister.
Rob: Yeah, the biology, the creation in that way. And also, I mhm think Sinister's obsession with The Summers and Prestorius obsession with Dr. Frankenstein as well. You can totally see so many corollaries there.
Guido: And who's your final choice?
Rob: So my final choice is I'm choosing two characters, or really one character. So I'm choosing Al Man from La Casa Falls, the musical, or Albert from The Birdcage as played by Nathan Lane. And I think this is just such a fun character, especially The Birdcage. I think it's required viewing every Pride season. And his dialogue is just so amazing. But also, I think at the heart of it, it's really just a fundamental story that they were able to place a queer character in the center of. Because I was listening to another podcast recently called 50 Key Stage Musicals and they were saying, well really, La Collage and The Birdcage is just like the classic story of you can take it with you, like a weird family and a more straight, square, uh, family kind of being put together. But what I think is so amazing about the character of Albert or Alban in the musical is that this is a character who refuses to conform to what everyone else wants him to be. So even in the end, like the great kind of climactic part of him dressing up and pretending to be the mother because he really does think of himself as his son's mother. So I think it really is very moving and very stands out. And I think in the musical version, you know, the song I Am What I Am has become a real clear anthem. And it is amazing to think that that was a musical being written by two queer men at the height of the AIDS crisis, harvey Feyerstein and Jerry Herman. And writing, uh, this anthem at a time when the queer community was really being shunned and to make this big splashy musical is really great. So it's kind of that character is kind of the creators behind that character, uh, all in one.
Guido: And what are you doing with him in the multiverse?
Rob: So in the multiverse, I was thinking like what? Of course in the musical and in the movie, alban or Albert is the star in this local club in Miami or in the French Riviera, but I would love to, uh, see what if this character really became, like, a huge global star. I think that would be so fun and, like, not going beyond just a small time club and really becoming a movie star, which is funny because it's almost kind of what happened to Nathan Lane starring in this movie. He was a smaller, lesser known theater actor who then became, like, this big icon and got The Lion King after that from starring in this. And for mash up, I was really struggling with this. But we kind of discovered when we were going back to some earlier comics, that the drag queeniest of, um, Marvel characters we thought was Janet Van Dyne as the Wasp. Like, a lot of the classic Wasp lines are really super snarky drag queen. She's, uh, obsessed with sex to almost insanely comic equivalent. So I would love to see maybe Albert and the Wasp, uh, combined together. And also, like, what if you had this super loud, giant personality, but in them in this teeny, tiny body? And I was thinking that in the Birdcage, of course, the enemies, the bad guys in it, are Wasps. So it was almost like Albert would be the anti Wasp.
Guido: And what's Albert's drag name?
Rob: Well, Zazu in the musical. I'm forgetting what it is in the well that works.
Guido: Uh, I don't even know that you need to fuse that with the Wasp. Um, she could just be Zazu. Zazu the Wasp becomes the Amalgam character. All right, well, those are our last choices, but we have one more guest joining us, so please welcome my dear lifelong friend, Christian. Fiscalino LGBT activists that everyone should be following and paying attention to at fusarino. F-U-S-C-A-R-I-N-O on Twitter. Christian is going to broaden our definition of comics to include a comic strip.
Rob: Uh.
Christian Fuscarino: Hi, dear. Watchers this Pride month. I'm thinking about some queer fictional characters that may not be queer, but, um, we all think they may be. And so I'm thinking of Peppermint Patty from the, uh, Peanuts, or those who may know as Snoopy and the Gang. Peppermint Patty always, uh, expressed her deep crush and affection for Charlie Brown. But why would Peppermint Patty really be into Charlie Brown? No one liked Charlie Brown in the cartoon and the comic strip. And so a lot of people have speculated Peppermint Patty and Marcy were together. But in the 55 plus years that Peanuts has been around, the two have never expressed any romantic affection in any of the comic strips or cartoon. And so I am asking this month, what if Peppermint Patty and, uh, Marcie finally came out in the Peanuts franchise and that cartoon would have members from the LGBTQ community? I think it would be a great addition, uh, especially with Charles Schultz, the creator of Peanuts, having introduced Franklin after had been written to by members of the black community looking for representation during the time of civil rights. Charles Schwarz took the step and introduced that character. And despite him being a religious man, I am hopeful that if he was with us today in 2022, uh, that he would perhaps consider Peppermint Patty and Marcy having some kind of romantic relationship to be as inclusive as possible for the LGBTQ community, just like he did for communities of color during the civil rights fight. So that's my what if for this Pride month. And I am so proud of Keto and, uh, Rob and all those at Deer, uh, Watchers who have created this amazing podcast. Happy Friday.
Rob: Thank you so much, Christian. And I would love to see a 2020s revival of the Peanuts with this queer couple in there and more diversity, racial diversity and other kinds of diversity, ability diversity as well. I think the Peanuts, it has stood the test of time. It's something that people still love, and I do think it has that elasticity to add greater diversity into those characters while still keeping them core to who those characters are.
Guido: So thank you, Christian. And thank you to all of our guests today. We had Mike and Jessica from Tencent Takes, Liam from their queer there.
Rob: You got it right.
Guido: Miguel Morales, art from Alphabet Flight. Carrie Harris, Christian Fiscreeno. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Happy Pride. I have been Guido.
Rob: And I have been Rob.
Guido: Please file. Follow us on Twitter at dear watchers. Leave that review share thank you for listening and have a wonderful Pride. In the words of, um, what?
Rob: You keep pondering the possibilities.