Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

>> Rob: We're talking corporate collaborations and amazing amalgamations. on, this dear Watchers and Omniversal comic book podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

>> Guido: We are traveling with you through the stories, the worlds and the legal contracts that make up the omniverse of fictional realities we all love. And your watchers on this journey are me, Guido with no clever names.

>> Rob: And my name is Rob. Maybe next time my name will go first before we begin our trip through giant conglomerates that are working together to create art and commerce. Gueto, what's new in our little section of the Multiverse?

>> Guido: I don't know if there's much of anything new.

>> Rob: Anything new.

>> Guido: I mean, we always have things that are new. We shared on our last episode that we have another podcast and that's coming out weekly on audio and video, the Sleepover Retro Countdown show. So you can go find us there. And there are plenty of things I'm sure that are going on looking at.

>> Rob: Us on this podcast, though, it makes.

>> Guido: It a lot easier to record, I'll tell you that.

>> Rob: It does. I had to choose a shirt for one of the other ones. It's, it's, chaos.

>> Guido: I know. The pressure, the pressure. So I don't think there's much else new. We're in Thanksgiving and we're thankful for all of our listeners who've been with us for these last four plus years of podcasting.

>> Rob: So thank you and if you are joining us on this audio only podcast for the first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse today. Origins of the story, exploring multiversity and pondering possibilities.

>> Guido: So thanks for coming along and remember, leave us a five star review wherever you're listening. Find us on social media, earwatchers and talk to us.

>> Rob: And with that, dear watchers, welcome to episode 173 and let's check out what's happening in the Omniverse with our travels. Today's alternate universe. And today we are going like full meta man with the question, what if Batman and Deadpool teamed up in one of the most meta, fourth wall breaking stories of all time?

>> Guido: That's a hyperbolic question. I'm not sure. I'm not sure the answer. Well, I'm not sure the question fits this one, but I guess that's what we'll be talking about.

>> Rob: Exactly.

>> Guido: And we have talked about a lot of meta, and fourth Wall breaking and Marvel DC things before, but in fact we read the precursor to this issue, maybe the first part of this story that's something we're going to have to discuss. Yes, and we covered that just recently back on episode 169, so highly recommend you go check that out where we do the first of these modern Marvel DC crossovers, which is titled Deadpool Batman, not to be confused with today's Deadpool. And way back on episode 97, we gave a history of the Marvel DC crossovers. And then we've covered a whole bunch of them, including a lot of amalgams, which is very relevant to this issue. And this story might take place on crossover Earth Earth 7642, which we've talked about before. It's sort of the catch all where you just drop in the crossover stories, but it also might take place on Prime Earth DC or 616Marvel. We're going to have to talk about all of that.

>> Rob: Well, before we get into that, let's also talk about the author for this issue, which is Grant Morrison.

>> Guido: The legend, the icon.

>> Rob: Yes, and I want to know your background with Grant Morrison, Guido. But first, this is so fascinating. As you said, legend, icon, yet this is actually the first time ever that we're covering a Grant Morrison comic on, the pod. Can you believe that?

>> Guido: I can, in part because I. First of all, Grant Morrison stories are huge. They tend to be massive arcs. And probably the biggest one that, that we need to cover is the new X Men, the run of New X Men. And there is an alternate universe in it, but it's gonna require so much reading that I just don't even know how to get you on board with that. So I'm not surprised here.

>> Rob: And the closest we've come is we did discuss Doom Patrol, the TV show, which of course was heavily influenced by his work and also the Doom Patrol comic way, way back on episode 82. But the comic we actually read for that episode was was by Dan Jurgen. So not even Grant Morrison.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Although you probably haven't read much Grant Morrison, so why don't you start with your background, because I'm gonna guess it's an easy one.

>> Rob: Yeah, I don't think I've necessarily ever read any Grant Morrison, especially since now a lot of the comics I read are for this podcast. And as we just established, we have not covered Grant Morrison. So I think my two biggest entries into their work have been the. The Doom Patrol TV show, which I didn't know was very heavily influenced by their time on the comics. And then we also watched a documentary about Grant Morrison, I don't remember the name of it from like the early aughts or something like that. And that was really when I learned all about the relationship to witchcraft. But like technological witchcraft. Like Grant Morrison is the techno version of the wizard, that is Alan Moore is like the earthy version with like a snake in a hut kind of version. That's how I think of them both as these mad scientists. UK mad scientists of comics.

>> Guido: Yeah, definitely. And that's part of why I think I love Grant Morrison, is because I loved Alan Moore first. And I was not such a big fan during like the original run of like the UK British Invasion in comics, which is like the mid to late 90s in Vertigo. I was not as familiar with the rest of the folks then, like Neil Gaiman and Peter Milligan and Grant Morrison. But it was probably only a few years later that someone turned me on to. I mean I obviously read New X Men and loved it. Grant Morrison took over Captain Britain from Alan Moore. Loved that. So I was predisposed. They had a bunch of small titles that I was a big fan of, but it was really the Invisibles, which you should read. I've heard of a lot you would love.

>> Rob: You've discussed it. Definitely.

>> Guido: So good. And it is so mind melting and it just is. It's almost like Promethea, but there's. It has a faster pace and more. More action in it and more quirky characters and trans characters and it's about the end of the world and the Illuminati, but also history and it's just wild. I know one of his mind bending.

>> Rob: Mentors or people he looked up to was Robert Anton Wilson, who's in that documentary and he coined that term the Illuminati. So it's all like connected to that, that way of thinking, I guess.

>> Guido: Yeah. So I've been a big fan of Grant Morrison since then. Now, funny enough, I'm not a huge fan of Grant's DC work or general superhero work after New X Men, but DC work, you know, Final Crisis is really chaotic. I've not read the whole JLA run, which I know people will see as a sin. I did enjoy multiversity because I like multiverses and it was kind of mind bending, so. So anyway, I'd say I'm a pretty big fan of Grant Morrison's and really follow Grant Morrison's work quite a bit and was very excited when the team for this book was announced.

>> Rob: Well, let's see if you're a really big fan of our first story for today. It's time for Origins of the story. Right now on this very show, you're gonna get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago. So this is Batman Deadpool number one. Not to be confused with Deadpool Batman number one. This came out in or will come out or what, however you say, in January 2026.

>> Guido: Cover dated January 2026.

>> Rob: Just. Yeah, hot off the presses. And this story is entitled the Cosmic Kiss Caper.

>> Guido: Yeah. So this is the DC Marvel one shot that follows the Marvel DC one shot. Of course, they took turns in publishing them. As we talked about on the last episode we covered this and this is just the first and cover story that we are covering for this segment because. Because it's sort of a continuation of the last issue. And gosh, these issues have been doing well.

>> Rob: Yes. So before we get into the credits, just a little bit of the commerce aspect. So Deadpool Batman, according to Bleeding cool, has sold 500,000 copies as of October. Now Guido, I'm not as familiar with how many copies comics are selling, but. But I'm m gonna guess 500,000 is a lot.

>> Guido: Yeah. Well, what's funny is it's a lot now. It is not a lot. It's actually like shocking that that is what is considered a lot. For example, the heyday of comics boom, we know X Men Number one, 1991 was 8 million copies. So it is. This is a fraction of that era. However, there are comics that are on the stands that are sometimes selling 10,000 issues a month.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: Wow. So this is a huge book. I mean, stuff like Batman and Spider man, if memory serves. Now of course, charts, since diamond exploded, charts are really hard to follow now because it's all up to the different distributors and publishers and what they want to share. But, but as of a few years ago, Batman and Spider man would maybe sell like a 200,000 copy book in a month. So again, this is quite big, but quite big relative to what comics are.

>> Rob: Selling right now, like network TV too. Because you see, like, yes, the ratings for an episode of the Love Boat were like. Would today be like boutique tv? That would blow things out of the water. Well, and speaking of that too, this book that we're about to cover here, Batman, Deadpool. So again, according to Bleeding Cool, so it's outselling the second and third place books, which are one world under, do number nine, Absolute Flash number nine, by five times those sales. So no comic book according to them in history of the charts has outperformed everything else by so much.

>> Guido: Yeah. So again, relatively speaking, this book is massive, so that's cool. And we'll talk a lot more about what's to come in our other segments. But let's focus in here on the Cosmic Kiss caper, which is written by Grant Morrison, penciled by Dan Mora, colored by Alejandro Sanchez, lettered by Todd Klein, Speaking of Promethea, edited by Marie Javins and Andrew Marino. And of course, we've talked about these craters in little ways all over the place, including Dan Mora back on episode 147 when we were talking about Abso. And so let's start with the first question. Is this a sequel to the anchor story, the COVID story in Deadpool Batman? What do you think?

>> Rob: Well, how I understood it, and I think this is probably a key to Graham Morrison's work, where it's. How much of it do you understand?

>> Guido: Correct.

>> Rob: Is that the character of Deadpool considers it a secret sequel to that, but not to Batman, who doesn't seem to have any idea who Deadpool is. Like, his mind has been wiped clean. But Deadpool I got, because he's this fourth wall breaking character, is aware that he's already been in a sequel to this or this is his sequel to the original comic. that's how I interpreted it. What did you think?

>> Guido: Well, I think it works also. I think that's a good interpretation and I'm willing to support that one. But I think it also works because it's not that Batman is like.

>> Rob: So.

>> Guido: Clueless that you're like, no, these two could never have met before. Because where Batman's cluelessness shows up, I find to be like a really great meta thing where he's trying to figure out if Deadpool is an alternate version of Slade Wilson. And he keeps making a commentary about Deathstroke and he's like, but do you know who Deathstroke is? So, in my mind, they could have met on that last encounter and now on this second encounter, Batman's sort of like, I need to make sense of you. Like, I don't know why this is happening and I can't make sense of it. So I could see them being companions. Now. I think the way Grant constructed this story, it is not meant to be a sequel because Grant also provides the explanation for why the worlds are merging in this one, which does not happen in the previous story. It doesn't have an explanation. He just gets to come. I mean, it has a bit of an explanation. Joker like, used the cosmic treadmill and pulled Deadpool through. But like, it doesn't that. It just Sort of wiped away with that explanation. This one actually has a whole framing story between the cosmic universal entities now having an affair.

>> Rob: Yeah, I mean, that's something we've talked a lot about with these crossovers is do you need that framing device? But the very title of this story is the Cosmic Kiss Caper. So it all actually harkens back to that framing device of these two cosmic entities coming together and merging these worlds. So it's interesting that they did take that approach.

>> Guido: Well, and then I guess let's explain a little bit of it. So, spoilers. But if you're listening, you know, we're going to spoil. And even if you've read it, we might not be spoiling it because we might be making sense of it in a way completely different from you. Because while it is a straightforward and accessible story, I think for granted, Morrison it is still has Grant's like, perfect pitch, perfect way of just wrapping it enough, like, in. In your mind that you can't totally figure it out. So when Cassandra Nova bursts on the scene, it sort of plays with all sense of reality and what's going on in this story. Because then we get. And. Well, there's lots of details I'm going to leave out in this broad stroke, but we have that Deadpool and Batman are aligning, and they know that something's off and they know that there's this other world, but they also feel like. But they've been sent on a mission to get a weapon. But then it turns out Cassandra Nova actually has herself in their minds and she's the one, like, having them imagine this whole sequence. So I guess the layers. It's almost like Inception, I guess the layers of the reality merging are the realities merge and Batman and Deadpool encounter Cassandra Nova, and then she sends them into some. Another warped reality. And that's where we see a lot of the story playing out.

>> Rob: Yeah. And then the weapon ultimately, that they want to. That Cassandra wants to capture is a laptop, basically. A laptop.

>> Guido: Grant Morrison's laptop. And I have no doubt that it was drawn accurately to Grant Morrison's, like, 1996 laptop. It looks that way and is so perfectly drawn. And.

>> Rob: Yeah, that's another, though, reality warping device, because this laptop is also able to control what's happening in the world as well.

>> Guido: Because Grant is a character in the story.

>> Rob: Because Grant is a character in the story. Yeah. So we basically get these three different layers of reality in this. I think Inception is a pretty good analogy for what we have here.

>> Guido: And so staying on that beat before we dive more into like what we actually see play out on panel. Staying on that this scratched my itch. I mean, you know, our listeners know this is exactly what I love. I love really complex, sometimes so ambitiously complex that they don't even make sense. Stories that have a meta aspect. And in this case, I love that Grant Morrison is including as a writer, that there's lots of commentary on writing, even on probably Grant's writing of some of these characters, that the character is sort of writing out a script that then Batman is acting out. But of course there's references to the challenges with these kinds of things. And then there's also just playing with, all of that. I love that kind of reference. Playing with the idea of these two things coming together. I don't know. I really like that. Did you enjoy that aspect of it? The sort of mind numbing aspect?

>> Rob: Well, I think the tricky thing with that, and as we just established, I'm not as familiar or very familiar at all with Grant's other work, but I think then there can be a thin line between. It's so crazy, you have no idea what's going on to it. Not necessarily being good, not good writing, but good like structuring as well. Like it. You can just say, well, it's so. It's so kooky and there's so many layers, but, like, is the actual storytelling there at the heart of it. And I don't know if I quite got that for this.

>> Rob: you were saying before that you found another of their works to be chaotic. And that would definitely be the word used to describe here. Like there was just one too many ingredients in it for me to really enjoy it as a whole, though I enjoyed it in segments.

>> Guido: Well, I also think, and this is true of a lot of Grant Morrison stories, it would benefit from multiple readings, like going back and reading it again. Because in fact, the reason I called this accessible, even though it is chaotic and confusing, is it doesn't require a whole lot of existing understanding of things. So.

>> Rob: No, not at all.

>> Guido: It's not. There are lots of Easter eggs and there are lots of little references that I think if you're reading for, you can sort of read what is going on with that. But it's meant to be. I can walk in and just read this. And that's a really fun aspect of it. With the one big exception to that, I'd say, being you're expected to know the amalgam universe. And how cool is that? I mean, I love so the way that happens in this plot is. And this is where like the layer upon layer are confusing because, this is in the layer in their minds that Cassandra Nova is generating. In that layer of reality. Batman has died. And he's done this on purpose. He's killed himself because he's saying like, look, this, if this is a story, then it's not going to matter. And in fact, I can't die, so I need to like, push myself to this point. So Batman gets shot up by these arrows. Deadpool brings him to the Lazarus Pit. And it's such a cool Lazarus Pit where the icons of death from both Marvel and DC are all over the walls. I don't know if you looked closely and saw, like it's not just Reverse Flash, but it's also Archangel and it's also Hela, so. And it's also Death from Vertigo. So very cool thing there. And Batman gets reborn as Dark Claw, as Wolverine Batman, and he calls himself Batman with a rapid healing factor, which of course is up against then Deadpool and his healing factor. So it's just such a cool moment. Even if it's taking place in their minds or in whatever world Cassandra Nova has them in. Whatever's going on, who cares? It's so fun.

>> Rob: And he does use the Dark Claw name too. So they're bringing that in there. And. And I thought it was a very fun. Obviously as a fan of the Amalgams and this is a character that we've covered before, but this would be one of the many ingredients I felt like was like, what? Too many? I don't know, it just was one too many things on top of it. I would have loved to have seen maybe the story just focusing on this. I don't know, it felt just jammed in there for. Oh, let's put one more thing into this story for me.

>> Guido: Yeah, Yeah, I could see that. If anything, maybe the story needed a little room to breathe. Or again, maybe you just need to reread it after you let it settle for a few days or a few weeks and see. Yeah, see if you take more out of it.

>> Rob: And then if this had been a full book or it is the longest story, of course, in this issue. But if it had been even longer, I do agree. I think then there would have been room for all of these different elements. It just seemed a little cramped, almost as if he had all these ideas. And then they said to Grant, oh no, actually, by the way, you have to cut it down. It has to only be this Many, this many pages. And they still kept in all the ideas, despite the fact that they lost the amount of pages. That's how I almost read it.

>> Guido: Well, the other thing I'd say about Grant versus Alan, and this is not always true, but Alan does not go for concision at all. Allan is not a concise writer, and Grant, I think, does tend toward it. So I could see Grant wanting the story to be this length, but probably there's some editorial involvement because it's a big, giant anthology that they can only fit so many pages in, so. And the other big piece that I love, I mean, first of all, I sort of like how adult the cosmic kiss caper scenes become. I mean, you literally have these cosmic entities having intercourse, and you're seeing that. And as you're seeing that, the world is getting more merged. And that's how you get the introduction of Dead Bat, which is the amalgam of Deadpool and Batman, which was a very fun surprise. Also, toss in here with great art, for sure. So. Yeah, yeah.

>> Rob: And you almost need Dead Bat for the story, as loose as the story is, because it's already been established earlier in the story that Batman, of course, won't kill someone. And now Deadpool is trying not to kill someone because he's trying to be like Batman, but then kind of merge together. You have to have something that's just going to kill Cassandra Nova or temporarily kill Cassandra Nova to keep the story, you know, to free them from this mental prison.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah. And so then there's a whole other wraparound that we haven't even alluded to. But in terms of, Batman gets one thing out of this, where he gets to save someone who got killed. And it's a new character. It's not an existing character. It's just put in for fun as a bit of a wraparound in the end, which I think is a cute way of. Without putting, you know, there's no the end question mark like there was last time. So I think it's a cute way of putting a pin in it, raising the stakes a little, giving it a little bit of emotional heft. But just narratively, obviously, we don't spend a lot of time with this Victor Gower character who has lost his wife.

>> Rob: He's pre existing because he is the Sports Master. I did look that up. So he's classic, you know, you know, jsa JLA villain. But, yeah. I don't know about if his wife is. Who's the.

>> Guido: Right. If that's canonical. Yeah.

>> Rob: If that was just yeah.

>> Guido: Canonical or not, I'll also be curious if she is canonically dead, is she gonna be canonically alive in D.C. prime Earth? Like is this story Grant Morrison, Rogue Impact continuity, the Sports Masters, Same with Sportsmaster. Yeah, I don't think that's the big summer event next year.

>> Rob: Well, speaking of big summer events, though, I did want to ask you about another character that is in this story, which is Cassandra Nova. And do you think that was inspired by Deadpool and Wolverine, the movie? Because I almost, I did find it actually almost a little jarring that the antagonist is the same antagonist as the last time that Deadpool partnered up with a, tough talking, mean character like Batman and Wolverine. So I don't know. What'd you think of that?

>> Guido: Yeah, I agree that, I first saw it and I was shocked to see her appear. And so I agree that I thought, oh, I wonder if this is somewhat related to that. And again, it could be a bit of a meta commentary on that. I don't know that it was like corporate shoehorn. But here's the other thing. Damian Wayne is in this, and Damian Wayne is also created by Grant. So this is like filling the book with Grant Morrison characters. So it might have been like more. It might have been more a thing. Let me pick a character I created and who could add to this story that I'm telling with all these meta layers. And it's like, oh, Cassandra Nova, because she goes into people's minds and messes them up.

>> Rob: So, yeah, I think as someone who's less familiar with their work as a whole, knowing that they created all these characters, that, that some of that was lost on me. But I'm sure if you're a fan, you know, oh, that Grant worked on these characters or created these characters, then it's like, oh my gosh, that is so much more enjoyable. But I think that is one thing that you kind of have to be a bit of an insider to get.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, I think that's.

>> Rob: I think lastly too, like, I think this is what I liked. It's. It's hard to not compare it, of course, to the Deadpool Batman book. And what I liked about that one was the humor. That one was very much a character driven piece. It was very much what if you put Deadpool, this fast talking comedic character, with Batman, this notoriously serious character, and everything that came, came from that. And the story was so secondary here. I don't think a character based book. It's more about, not necessarily the story, but at least about these big ideas. And the characters are kind of a little more to the side, especially Deadpool.

>> Guido: I would definitely say Grant Morrison's work is always about the ideas. I have no doubt. So, yeah, I agree. But I enjoyed it a lot. I enjoyed it more than the last one, to be honest. I think it'll stick with me more. I think I'll revisit it more. I think I'll take more out of thinking about it. And I like that.

>> Rob: see as someone, I think, who just likes the dynamic between the characters and like the witty writing, I favored the first one instead.

>> Guido: Yeah. Well, that wraps up this segment, but we've got lots more character driven stories ahead.

>> Rob: Yes, that's true. It's time to explore some multiversity.

>> Guido: I am your guide through these vast new realities.

>> Rob: Follow me and ponder the question what if. And today we're going to discuss the rest of the books. The rest of the story.

>> Guido: Yes, we're gonna cheat a little.

>> Rob: Yes, a little bit of a cheat. Rest of the stories here in Batman Deadpool Number one. So we're starting with a magician walks into a universe. And this one, it's so interesting. They went out and found three unknown writers to all collaborate on this story.

>> Guido: Well, this whole book. I mean, again, DC and Marvel got a list people across the book, but this book. But I don't. I think we need to zoom out and talk about all of them. One thing I think about, I guess we could do this afterwards, but I'm going to do it now. I appreciate. These are all so different. These four stories that are, that make up the rest of the book are all really different. They're different perspectives and different ideas and totally different tones. So I think this book is really well balanced, I'll say in that way.

>> Rob: Yes.

>> Guido: And this second one, the second one though, continues a little bit of the Grant Morrison meta ness highfalutin ideas. So written by James Tinian iv, Josh Williamson and Scott Snyder and then penciled by Hayden Sherman. I mean this book, bringing John Constantine and Dr. Strange together is, is so fun. It's never been done and they're so perfect together.

>> Rob: Sure.

>> Guido: And this story is also a little bit. Hurts your brain. But this one, to sort of summarize less a summary and more my idea from it and then you can share yours. Basically, John Constantine comes to Dr. Strange and they end up having a bit of a kind of a tete. A tete. I don't know what I'd call it, but there's a, intensity around the question of is The DC Universe, too dark. That's the sort of meta layer here which I really love. And there's lots of talking in this that this is definitely one where these are written by fans and fans can see it. Because I don't know if you caught this, but, like, the moment where I really knew what their thesis was was when John Constantine says to Dr. Strange, you can look at the world outside your window all you want. I've seen the darker parts of a man's soul. So Marvel, for decades has called themselves the world outside your window. And it's been their branding for like the last 15 years, especially under CB Sapulsky, this idea that Marvel exists in the real universe and it's going to incorporate all of that and you can look out the window and see the world outside your window. That's what Marvel is meant to be. And so I love that he's pulling that in immediately to go through this sort of debate that they're having about the darkness of the universe and what they're gonna do.

>> Rob: There's another line there that, Dr. Strange now says to Constantine, which is, my world may seem bright and shiny to an outsider, but there is a darkness here. So kind of, again, a little bit of a commentary. Oh, everything's just like funny one liners. But no, there's a dark undercurrent happening.

>> Guido: Yeah. And I love that because you definitely don't get. There's no jabs in here to me about the Marvel or the DC universe. I think these are definitely probably fans of both universes. These are people who've written for both universes. And so they're just sort of debating this and they're debating it while. And I don't even fully understand, like, they're looking at, some of their biggest deities kind of conflicting. Like Ghost Rider is going after Swamp Thing and Mephisto is going after whoever that guy is with the green eyes.

>> Rob: I don't have no idea who that DC character is. Someone equivalent of their devil, but he's blind. Someone let us know.

>> Guido: Yeah. So it's just cool because they're talking about, like, how their magic works in their respective universes and. And, again, sort of debating it. And ultimately Dr. Strange is trying to save Constantine. Constantine has, like, opens the eye of Agamotto and gets kind of possessed by it, I guess. But this is also the only story to end with a question mark. So this story, I think, is going to be setting up the future, which we can save that conversation for our next segment. So did you Enjoy this story.

>> Rob: well, it's interesting because I enjoyed the thesis that you just said which I also picked up on. On like the. On the darkness versus the light. But I think it's interesting that they had three writers write this because it is m. Not very not there is real. No plot. It is kind of just that idea. What of course I loved and is. And I feel like the story was just an excuse to get to the end art which is.

>> Guido: Well, Hayden Sherman is a very, very. Is known for this kind of art. Dark and sort of grotesque and breaking out of a panel page and being a little psychedelic.

>> Rob: Mike Spicer, who did the colors as well because everything is this kind of, I don't know, this pastel almost look. And there's a super psychedelic definitely hearkening back to me to the. The Steve Ditko Dr. Strange kind of looks in a lot. In a lot of. This is very kind of psychedelic, at times. But yeah. So that I loved and I felt like the story was kind of there to get basically this thesis and the art through. So I don't know if I can say I liked it, for anything outside from that.

>> Guido: Well, I think we'll return to that in our third segment. So let's keep moving along to the rest of the issue because we've got sticks and snicts, which is so great. Written by one of my all time favorite writers. Also, I mean this issue really was written for me. Tom Taylor pencils by Bruno Redondo. So this is Laura x23 or Laura Wolverine with Nightwing. And what I love, again, going with your ideas theme. This one is the idea of sort of living in the shadow of another, hero. These are both legacy characters who inherited the mantle from it from a much more famous character. Batman and Wolverine, two of the most famous characters we know for sure. Of course. So it's such a great pairing. It's not a pairing you'd expect, but Tom Taylor also has written both of these characters. He's written two of the most iconic runs for each of these characters. Nightwing really recently. And Laura a few years ago he wrote her solo title. And so getting Hem to pair them up and have a little bit of fun with them, it ends up being a little bit of a of a. They're going to save Gabby. And like it's just some action. But I think it's really cemented. And Tom Taylor never fails to hit me in my heartstrings with the end where it says living up to the best. There is at what they do. And it's the two of them with Batman and Wolverine faded into the sky. So it's really all about legacy and being your own person in the shadow of this legacy. And I love that aspect of it.

>> Rob: I would say this was my favorite of all the stories in the.

>> Guido: Which is funny because you probably. You don't even know Laura. Ah. You don't even know Gabby. Like, you don't even know these characters.

>> Rob: I don't at all. I've never read them before. But I think again, yeah, the going back to the ideas like that. That concept of living in the shadows and. And growing up and even I love like the idea that Laura is also so astonished that Nightwing actually doesn't have any powers, that he's just a man as well. So I think.

>> Guido: But then like the fact that's a. That's a really touching moment when she's like m. He has no powers and he stepped in front of Gabby when Killer Croc was going after her. Like, I love that too because it's true of Batman too. Right? It's same with Batman and same with Wolverine. Right. Wolverine has powers, Batman doesn't. So these are two iconic characters and their legacy heroes get to explore what that means.

>> Rob: And even I think Killer Croc and the idea of going through the sewers and trying to find this girl and there's actually kind of a switcheroo at the end, it reads. Is both classic for Batman and Wolverine as characters too. These are two characters that are always traipsing through the sewers and like dealing with a, you know, saber tooth or Killer Croc or something like that. So I think that really fit both of these stories. Even though it's not something, as you said, we would necessarily jump right to, but it still feels of this. Of both of their worlds.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah.

>> Rob: And there's a cute dog and a cute Wolverine. An actual Wolverine.

>> Guido: Yes, yes. Lots of cute animals in this. And Bruno Redondo, always has the great art. So this, I agree, was definitely a highlight. All right, let's get through our last two real quick because they just represent something different. They're a little more bite sized. So we've got Mariko Tamaki and Amanda.

>> Rob: Connor doing Harley and Hulk's Amazing Saturday with a lot of exclamation points.

>> Guido: Points, yes.

>> Rob: Opening. There's only one exclamation point on the title, on the page.

>> Guido: But yeah, so this is a silly one where it's just Harley and Hulk and they're trying to get food. And there's a few little jokes. they're on like Coney island or. But near a power plant. And there's a few little jokes about toxic waste. But in the end they, I don't know, get the hot dog cart. I don't know what's going on. Quite honestly. It's silly.

>> Rob: Dogs fall into the toxic waste and become like man eating hot dogs with mouths that are attacking them. But then, yeah, it's very Coney Island. And it's very like. It reminded me of like a Mad magazine comic because at one point, like they go to the waste management is called the Carson O.J. waste Management. And that is just a classic like MAD magazine kind of joke.

>> Guido: Well, and those are tons of Harley's jokes. So this is much more a Harley comic than a Hulk comic. But I like that they paired her with Hulk. I have no idea why.

>> Rob: Presence in it. He's on the page, but he doesn't really contribute at all to this story.

>> Guido: Yeah, agreed. So that one's cute and fun and silly. Again, different tone in the book. And then we get to our last story, which is written by G. Willow Wilson, who also created Ms. Marvel, and penciled by Denys Cowan, who also created Static. So this is cool because you get.

>> Rob: With inks by Klaus Janssen too.

>> Guido: And with inks. I know. I mean, the legends in this book are incredible. The colorist on the last one is Tamara Bonvillain. Like, these people are extraordinary. But this one is so cool. These are two young characters. These are two non white characters who were introduced as legacy characters. Well, one introduced in Milestone and then brought over to D.C. and the other introduced as a legacy character. And so this story is new friends in old places. Yeah. And it's brief. This one was very remarkably brief. I actually thought it would go on longer.

>> Rob: But this one though, felt to me. And I don't know if you got the same sense. Like this one felt like a sneak preview of a full size book that you're going to get because like there's. These are two characters, like you just said, with Wolverine and Nightwing. It's like they're thematically, they work really well together, but you wouldn't just naturally put them together, which is why that works. But this is the kind of story that you could see DC and Marvel, I think, collaborating on, like a full actual run series of these two characters being together.

>> Guido: Yeah. and they have a little flirtation which is left unresolved. So that definitely sets up the possibility that they could Continue. So that then, like, surprisingly startlingly, ends the book. I kept thinking I was like missing pages because that was the end. And I was like, wait, that's it. so I guess that's a good sign that this one made me want more. It kept me wanting more.

>> Rob: It's interesting that they didn't end with like the. With the Batman Nightwing story, which has, of course, as you. You just mentioned that great page with Batman and Wolverine in the sky and them looking out. And like, that seems like the end where you're like, you're staring off at these characters and it's this very moving story. It's interesting that they actually ended with this story, which doesn't even really conclude. There's a big monster. We don't even know who that is. And they're. They're battling him. They don't even defeat the monster. So it literally just kind of. The story just ends.

>> Guido: Yeah, it says end. It doesn't even say the end for now or end question mark. It just says,

>> Rob: But maybe that was even intentional because maybe they didn't want this, like, gazing off of this sunset, which seems like an end. Maybe they wanted this ending that actually felt like, well, it's not really an ending. This is going to keep going, whether it's actually the pairing of these characters or what. What's going to come now in the future.

>> Guido: Yeah. Well, that's a good moment to move on to our final segment.

>> Rob: Yeah, we'll wrap up by pondering some possibilities. Will the future you describe be averted? Diverted?

>> Guido: Averted?

>> Rob: So, Gito, what are we talking about for pondering possibilities?

>> Guido: Well, so there is at least one dangle. I mean, the question of Ms. Marvel and static coming back together is one dangling thread we could say. And especially you're right. Ending the book on that does make it feel like you're ending it at a point where it, like I did. Makes you want more. But most important, Dangler here is the explicit John Constantine, doctor Strange ending on a the end question mark, which has Constantine saying, unless you wanted to join me, come and see what horror looks like in my neck of the woods. And Dr. Strange says, m, perhaps. So to me, that is setting up what we know is coming next year, which is a new Superman Spider man team up book. So we know that these one shots are, for the time being, gonna keep coming. So I suspect that, like Batman and Deadpool continued from one book to another, maybe Constantine and Strange will continue from one book to another. I mean, what we've learned is these books don't feel the need to have, an explanation. Right. They're just set in the worlds, so we don't need that. But I have a feeling that that's what the books are doing. They're kind of threading little bits along. What do you think?

>> Rob: Yeah, totally. And because the other thing that I was super surprised didn't come back is because there's a big full page ad for Deadpool, Batman, all, all featuring the logo character, which was the lobo Wolverine mashup. And it's, it's just him. M. He's got a big font, bigger font than Batman and Deadpool, even when it's listing all the characters. So I was thinking, well, we only got like a look at that character to the last one. Maybe this one will continue that. But no, he wasn't featured. But it's making me think the fact that they're putting him as a full page ad in here shows that, wow, this character was probably pretty popular and they also would have, plans for him. So I would not be surprised that that is a character we will see in the next book.

>> Guido: Well, the other thing, and I actually didn't notice this, believe it or not, but someone, online did. And I found it at the end of the Batman Deadpool story in this issue when the two cosmic beings are ending their affair. On the nightstands are the helmets of the two brothers from the All Access Marvel DC amalgam universe that represent the two universes. So it's not clear if those are put in there just as little nods to that or if there's the possibility that these, they're also going to show back up, which would bring us more amalgam universe. So I have no idea. But if this is the quality of book we can continue to expect coming out of this collaboration, then I love it. I don't mind the stories that stand alone versus the ones that might continue. I. I love them all. I think they're doing great.

>> Rob: Well, I think the great thing with these books is that it just attracts the top talent because everyone wants to work on these. Because I'm sure all these people are thinking, well, this could be the last time, huh?

>> Guido: Will I ever have this chance again?

>> Rob: Yeah, exactly. And they, they're clearly jumping at it. And that's a great way to attract top talent. And I think it all works in tandem because of course, not only people buying these because they want to experience these stories, which may be flee, but they're also a huge fan of these significant names that they have attached to these as well.

>> Guido: Well, if history is any indicator too, we know that these two companies like to dip their toes in the water. It's how we got the wizard of Oz as the lead up to the Amazing Spider Man Superman. They needed to see how they'd work together. And then same thing. Before we got to the Marvel versus dc, we had a few one shots doing the crossovers. So I do wonder if this could all lead to something bigger. I don't imagine it'll be an ongoing series or anything like that, but maybe it'll lead to a, miniseries or more frequent one shots or who knows? But it does feel like you're saying it's attracting top talent. It's going to excite people. Now they're seeing that it works. Certainly they're seeing that it's making them both a lot of money. So I'm sure that motivator is going to, gonna lead us to down a road with a whole lot more of this.

>> Rob: Now, just to spring it on you, and I know we've talked about some of these in the past, but are there particular characters that you want to see paired up in a future book? And I'll. I. Because I'll. I have mine. So I'll say mine if all you think, which is not like a specific, not a singular character. But I think it would be really fun if they did something with Spider Man's Rogues gallery and Flash's Rogues Gallery.

>> Guido: Because I always think like, those are kind of similar.

>> Rob: Like, of course Batman has these iconic villains, but they're also standalone. Like, I think it would be fun to take some of those kind of lesser, lesser Spider man villains and then some of those kooky Flash villains and just have them meet up. And maybe it's like, Alcoholics Anonymous, but for like these, these kind of secondary villains and these teams. I think that would be a lot of fun to see those characters.

>> Guido: That would be so much fun. if someone hasn't proposed that, then they're, they're, they're stupid.

>> Rob: The Weather wizard and the Chameleon together at last.

>> Guido: Yeah, I have two I'd want to see. One is the more straightforward, easy probably going to happen, although they've used her a lot, but would be Wonder Woman and Jean Grey. And I think they're interesting because especially at this point maybe 20 years ago, in the early 90s, 30 years ago, it wasn't the case. But Wonder Woman has had so many stories about, you know, hell and death, and she kills Max Lord, like darkness and that aspect. I think her and Jean would be an Interesting pairing. 30 years ago, her and Storm might have made more sense because they're both so powerful, but I think her and Jean could be interesting. They also both represent mythological characters in some way. So Wonder Woman is the mythological Amazon and Jean being the mythological Phoenix. So I think someone could have fun with that. But the ones I really want to see are Rogue and Gambit. I want them to do something as a couple, and I don't know who quite honestly, to pair them with. Maybe Harley and Ivy and Rogue and Gambit as like a super, as a double date. I think that would be a super fun double date issue. I would love to see the four of them go out. So that's, that's my pitch.

>> Rob: Oh, I do. I, I, I like that.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: Because, Yeah. I don't know who would, who would get along better with who of the, of the four of them. Which is the fun part. Yeah.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: So have they announced besides Spider man and Superman? They haven't announced any of the other pairs. No.

>> Guido: So if it's. This follows the trend of this one, then as we get closer to like the solicitation, they'll start to announce creative teams, then they'll announce variant covers, and then they'll announce like the character. The character combinations. And if it, if they're able to do like they did last time, some stuff will be a surprise. Like the, Lobo was.

>> Rob: And there's so many big characters at dc. We haven't seen the Flash, we haven't seen Aquaman at Marvel. Gosh, we haven't seen much of these.

>> Guido: I think both, I think both have. Really. They gave them Batman, Deadpool as like the framers, and then went. Went to not B list, but just went to like lesser, less popular A list characters. Yeah, because we've not gotten the X Men, we've not gotten the Avengers. We've gotten. We did get Wonder Woman and Captain America, but we've not gotten Superman, Spider Man. There are so many great potentials, and what's fun is living in a world where now we might see them. I mean, for years of this podcast, we would be like, oh, I wish we could see that. I wish we could see that. And now it's happening and the quality is great, so I'm hopeful.

>> Rob: Well, the sales are great too, so that means we're going to keep seeing them.

>> Guido: Yeah, I think 10% of those 500,000 are. Are my purchase of all the variant covers because I really keep telling myself, don't do it. And then I'm like, but number one, they're really good. And number two, they're not going to print them again. So if it's like the like the JLA Avengers and stuff, it's like, look, you might miss it. And then you're not going to be able to get it. So I am, I am consuming them.

>> Rob: Some huge names because I recognize the name that are doing the variant covers.

>> Guido: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's incredible. So that is a wrap. Dear Watchers, thank you for joining us on another crossover episode. I have been contractually obligated to be first in the naming order. Guido.

>> Rob: I've been contractually obligated to be second in order. I can't even say that word. No, second in order. Wrong.

>> Guido: The reading list is in the show. Notes. Follow us online Us what you think. Tell us what your favorite story is. Tell us what pairing you want to see at Dear Watchers and leave us.

>> Rob: A five star review wherever you listen. We'll be back soon.

>> Guido: Keep pondering the possibilities.