Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

Rob: Welcome to Dear Watchers, a comic book omniverse podcast, where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.
Guido: We are traveling through the storylines before and after that inspired or took inspiration from this week's amazing alternate universe. And your watchers on this journey are.
Rob: Me kiddo hen, me Uncle Rob, young man. Wait a second. Let me just kill this little bug crawling on my computer. Hello. This is Rob.
Guido: I'm here the whole play.
Rob: I gave you a whole journey. And joining us are special guest members of the Council of Watchers and Whippersnappers themselves, Mike and Zach from Multiverse of Badness, a favorite podcast. Hi, Mike and Zack.
Mike: Well, hello. How are you doing? And whippersnapper for Zack may be accurate, but for me, I am the elder statesman of podcasting at a clean. Chris 50 years old. Aunt May have right in my age bracket of this, I wouldn't agree with.
Zach: With a Snapper for myself. I'm 32. I've got a mortgage.
Rob: Compared to Aunt May, you definitely, uh, are whipper snap.
Guido: So, yes, I think that's how we're all whippers numbers.
Rob: Exactly.
Mike: Have you seen Cocoon?
Rob: Yes, of course.
Mike: I was retired at 57, and he looked as old as me, so I'm right in that bucket.
Rob: Well, that's what they were saying when Jennifer Lopez did Hustlers, and they were saying, well, she's the same age as the Golden Girls are on The Golden Girls, so our concept of aging has been used over the time. But thank you so much for joining us. Can you tell us a little bit about what multiverse, uh, of Badness is?
Zach: Uh, I would love to. It is a weekly comic book podcast where me and my old friend Mike over here, we find the weirdest storylines, uh, dumbest characters, first appearances, whatever it is and spend 25 minutes just picking it apart and having fun doing it, rating it at the end, and, yes, good fun. Mike, do you want to add to that?
Mike: No, you pretty much nailed it. We just have a good time reading comic books. I know you guys do a lot of research, which I love your podcast. I feel like I'm in my own multiverse of madness here. I feel like it's amazing. But, yeah, we don't do all that stuff. We read a comic book and just talk stupid about it, as you saw when you were guests on our podcast. To review, not to spoil anyone's idea of what we're doing talking about today, but I think we've already done it. The Golden Oldie and Anthony's, a superhero.
Zach: Multiverse of Badness, if I could sum it up, would be 0% research, 100% opinion.
Rob: We didn't get the full multiverse of Badness experience, though, because back, you were not present.
Zach: Yes, I had, um, if you may pardon the term explosive diarrhea.
Guido: Yeah, we heard. But we do listen to you every week, so we got to hear you. It's like we know you. Even though this is our first time recording together.
Zach: Well, it's lovely to finally meet you, I'd say in person, via, uh, the Internet.
Guido: Yes. And so can you each tell us what your history with either What If or else worlds, or just stories that have to do with the multiverse? Is it something you knew or liked or hated or didn't know?
Mike: You know what, I'll start out, uh, originally I was collecting comics around the time of the first What If series. I think it was 77 to 83. I started collecting comics, I guess as early as nine or ten, but I really started getting into them about twelve or 13 at the end of this run. And I just always thought that what if was amazing because I would start looking at old back issues. I guess they were dime bins back then. And I ran across the one where I know it was Ghost Rider, Spiderwoman, and somebody else. What if they were bad guys?
Guido: I was like Captain Marvel, okay?
Mike: I was like, oh, my God. This is like mhm. Mind altering. I really always enjoyed those. And then of course, the golden oldie, not really a what if, but technically a what if mhm.
Zach: I've never really read many what ifs apart from ones that we've really covered on the multiverse of badness. I mean, genuinely, I will happily admit that I today bought my first comic in about six years.
Speaker UNK: Wow.
Zach: So, uh, I'm a bit out of touch with actually reading comments, but elsewhere, uh, I feel that the idea of multiverses and else world is the perfect example of, uh, American creativity, because comic writing is so full of lazy, uh, conveniences, and just being able to do whatever you want. Like, Shit, I need to write a story about Spiderman, but this time he's got a cool hat. It happens in a different universe. Take all responsibility anytime, but then somehow turning that into the linchpin of the most successful movie studio currently working. It's beautiful.
Guido: And what did you buy today?
Zach: Uh, I bought the omnibus of the immortal Hulk.
Speaker UNK: Yeah.
Zach: Uh, my friend described it as, uh, the Hulk if it was done by David Kronenberg.
Guido: So, yeah, I read the end of the run and keep waiting to buy a collected edition so I could read the rest of it because it got such good reviews.
Zach: Well, if you want HMV. Uh in Swansea. It's £20. I don't know if it was a journey for you, but it's there.
Guido: Thanks for the heads up.
Rob: Well, thank you both for being here, and thank you for listening, everyone out there. And if you're listening for the first time, after a quick summary of our alternate Earth, we are visiting. We have origins of the story, discovering what inspired this other reality, exploring multiversity, diving deeper into our alternate universe and pondering possibilities. Examining the impact and what's followed or coming in the future. And with that, Dear Watchers, welcome to Episode 57 and let's check out what's happening in the multiverse with today's alternate universe. And today we are asking the question that everyone has wanted an answer to from the beginning of time. The reason why comics exist. What if Antmay had been bitten by a radioactive spider?
Zach: What if Aunt May have been bitten by a radioactive spider? I've been asking this my entire life.
Guido: This is Marble, designated Earth 3123, and we have covered Aunt May, as Mike shared on episode 31 of the Multiverse of Badness. So people can go check that out. We talk a little bit about her first outing as a superhero there and then. Mike, can you give us a brief summary of Earth 3123 and what happens when Aunt May is bitten by a radioactive spider?
Mike: Well, of course, I can imagine, if you will, a forgotten lunch of cottage cheese and string beans, I believe leads.
Guido: To mashed string beans.
Mike: Precisely. If this accidental circumstance leads to not Peter Parker turning into our Spider Man, but instead the lovely Aunt May.
Zach: I mean, you say lovely in all fantasy. The way they've drawn her in this book, it looks like she's run away from her own funeral.
Guido: It's true.
Speaker UNK: Yeah.
Guido: Quite the emaciated goblin look that they've given her.
Mike: Hey, now, let's not shame Aunt May.
Guido: I know this is not your Mr. Tome antmay.
Zach: Let's do that.
Guido: Yeah. Well, what was everyone's background with Aunt May?
Zach: I mean, Aunt May is just a character that's always been there just in terms of pop culture. But I mean, when I first got into comics, it was very much Spiderman, Daredevil. That kind of run a lot of the, um, Marvel Knight stuff when I was coming up. So Spiderman has always been a character that's been with me and it's just not me. She's lovely. She's like the supportive motherly figure that's there to, uh, pick you up when you're down and accidentally walking on you when you passed out in your Spider Man outfit. Occasionally die. It's what Apple does.
Mike: My experience is probably a little different because it seemed like every other episode or every other issue when I was a child. Someone was doing something that Aunt May. It's like she was kidnapped or she was in a hospital and somebody crashes through the room and she's always injected into very unfortunate and dangerous situations that require her nephew unbeknownst to her to rescue her from said situation. While she says.
Rob: Oh.
Mike: I hate that Spiderman guy.
Zach: But he must really like me because he's always alright.
Rob: Yeah, I was a big Spiderman reader going back to reading some of the McFarland era, especially, uh, when Aunt May was dating Nathan, the equally elderly man who also looked very close to death and he was in his wheelchair. And then there's the great story in The Return of the Sinister Six, where he is then killed. It's kind of tragic. But then, like you were saying, Mike, then it did seem during especially the Clone saga and stuff like that, that everything bad that could happen to Aunt May was happening. I remember her soul being trapped in hell after she had died and all these other things. And then, of course, into the animated series and Rosemary Harris. And definitely that was always the image of antman I had in my head this ELT, kindly elderly woman. And that's been shaken up a little bit now by, of course, Marissa Tome and other portrayals. What about you?
Guido: She's dead, so you can move, uh, on.
Rob: Yeah, that's true. She didn't even hit the elderly age of the traditional antmay.
Guido: Now, before they fridge her.
Rob: Um.
Guido: Like Zach said, antmay exists everywhere. Everyone knows Aunt Mae because she's part of the archetype. I never was the Spiderman reader, so I know, like, I've gone in and out of Spider Man in the last 20 years. I know she was dating Dokok for a while, which is kind of odd. And then she had cancer and expenses run. I don't know what happened to that, but yeah. And I know her multimedia version is much better. I mean, Lily Tomlin as Aunt May and into the Spiderverse we actually talked about, rob and I were on an episode of Ten Cent Takes to talk about the Spiderverse movies and talked a lot about the different ant Mays that are out there in media. So, yeah, I'd say we're all very familiar with antmay because anyone who knows anything about Spiderman probably is. But not this version.
Rob: No. So let's dive in, get, um, that hot, warm pie off the stove. Let's cut up some slices and dive into Origins of the Story. Mhm.
Mike: Right now on this very show, you're going to get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago.
Rob: And first up today, we are going to be discussing a strange tale indeed, this is Strange tale number 97 from June 1964. And it's entitled and it's entitled goodbye to Linda Brown Sounds like a 1960 song from Herman and Hermit or something. Goodbye to Linda Brown.
Guido: This was written by Stanley and penciled and inked by Steve Ditko. And I chose this because it's a really odd story as technically the first appearance of Aunt May and Uncle Ben. They're taking care of a superpowered child that's not their own. And almost certainly this isn't the six one six. It predates the six one six existence. And of course, the antmay we all know. May Bell Parker debuted with Peter in Amazing Fantasy just a few months after this, two months later. But knowing you guys were joining us, Mike and Zach, I said, you know what? Let's go with the real original Aunt May because this is a weird story.
Zach: Honestly, I am genuinely eternally grateful for the bottom of my soul that you have introduced me to this origin story for Aunt, uh, May and an oddly mustache with Uncle Ben.
Rob: Yeah, well, I think the first question is, as you said, Guido, we're not in the six one six here, but it's not really the Uncle Ben and Aunt May. We know they're both an elderly white couple, but the Aunt May is a bit more vibrant.
Mike: It's a prequel.
Guido: I'd like it to be a prequel.
Zach: After this, uh, the events of this story, in their grief, moved back to New York, kidnapped their nephew. He got bitten by a spider.
Guido: Exactly. Who wants to tell the events of this story? What's Linda Brown's deal?
Zach: If that's okay with the council, I would happily take this one, please. So this is a Stanley and Steve Ditko story. So it is, I like to think, canonical. Not to six one six Spider Man, but this predates spiderman spiderman the radioactively bitten army that we're, uh, here to discuss. That's my theory. So we're in a nice little seaside cottage, almost. Uh, me and Uncle Ben are looking after Linda Brown, a niece of theirs who is a wheelchair user. She's there. You can see she got hurt. I can't not spoil the story without making this point.
Mike: She only.
Zach: Blanket over her legs. But they're shaped through the blanket like legs here, but spoilers. Let's just jump to the end of the story. She's a dolphin. I don't know what else I can say to that. If you'd love to elaborate.
Rob: Yes. So Aunt May and Uncle Ben are both sleepwalking throughout as well. We don't quite know why, but at times they're both sleepwalking. And we know Linda wants to go out by the water. And one day she asks, how can I go out by the water? And then they never see her again. And then we just seen the final panel that as you said, Zack, she's half fish. Not even.
Guido: Perhaps she's been with us too long. So they knew she'd have to go back to the water at some point.
Zach: Maybe they just have a thing. Maybe they set up. Actually, no, because Peter wouldn't have been bitten in this never mind. I had another theory that would have contradicted my original theory.
Guido: They're trying to raise superheroes.
Zach: Yeah, I just think they're like kidnapping superhero children.
Mike: I have a couple of theories. I think this actually is part of the real Spiderverse. I believe that name worth the Samariner is this lady's dad. I believe that name where the Samariner actually kills Uncle Ben in retaliation for them stealing his daughter after she comes back. And also, I believe that this is technically a half sister to Spiderman. And that is why, when he was bitten by the radioactive spider, it unleashed part of his mutant genetics, and he wasn't. So, yes, this all goes back to a real, canonical version of Spiderman. One last question. What does sleepwalking have to do with anything in this story other than the filter?
Zach: Excellent question, my friend. There was no pay off to any of that sleep what I thought it.
Rob: Was going to be, because I actually did not predict the twist ending. I thought it was like, oh, they were actually making this. I thought they were like, well, for 1962, Stan and Steve are really ahead of their time. And this person who's a wheelchair user, and she's walking through the two people who are able to walk, her relatives, and she's experiencing the world through their walking. And I guess maybe that's what's happening here, because Linda can't walk necessarily. So I was like, well, this is actually really progressive that they're kind of telling this story and bringing disabilities to the forefront, but not quite what they were actually going for.
Zach: No, they kind of sucked you in and then hit you with the old she's a dolphin twist.
Mike: The oldest trick in the book. Now, I do have one last thing I'd like to add, and we can talk about this story for days, but there's really not a lot to talk about. The line that captures my fancy the most in this is actually not in the story. It's at the end. It's like this type of story. Then don't miss Amazing Adult Fantasy Comics. And I'm wondering amazing adult fantasy. Were these sold in plastic bags behind the counter at a gas station? No, it was actually amazing fantasy. They rebranded with issue 15. And then that was the final issue of Amazing Fantasy, and I guess it eventually turned into Spiderman.
Zach: Well, the bottom of the page lines appear throughout the entire book. I read the whole, uh, thing because all of these amazing story about a man who goes back in time and ends up in an insane asylum, but escapes the asylum, and the asylum keeper chases him, but they end up back in the normal time, and everyone thinks the asylum keeper is crazy, and they put him in an asylum. It was a whole runp. But throughout the entire book, I don't know if you've noticed, we have the Hulk is coming soon. The, uh, Hulk. The Hulk will be here soon. They would watch for the Hulk. They would definitely try to promote, uh, something.
Rob: It's like subliminal advertising, kind of, because you might see it. You might not see it.
Zach: Yeah, I couldn't help but see. It was everywhere.
Rob: But I do think for this kind of short, silly story, I mean, the art, the Steve Dicko art is really great. And the coloring, which is totally out of our realm. There's one panel with Uncle Bennett at May where they're both like, orange and yellow. In the background, there's all purple, and there's lots of those kind of cool coloring throughout, which definitely makes Elevates this four page story.
Zach: It's almost reminiscent of the coloring in things like Afterlife, uh, with Archie or Batman black mirror. And I now realize, as I'm saying that understand that they have the same artist. I'm spacing on their name, but anyway. Yes, I understand what you are.
Rob: Yes. Even almost like also francesco?
Guido: Uh, francoville yes, that's the one.
Rob: And even then, too, like a bit of like an Argento Mario Baba. It's like got that Italian horror Sisteria kind of thing. We're like, we're just going to make everything neon pink for no real reason. It's not coming from reality. And I'm guessing franchise Francis Via is definitely like bowling from those Italian horror masters, too.
Guido: Well, Ben and May's faces are constantly, like, horrified in this comic, which is why the quote unquote twist ending, it's sort of negated by her being, like, super happy with the ponytail and her nightgown on as she's flipping in the water. It could have leaned a little darker.
Rob: Yeah. And to your point, Mike, she is going in the distance. I actually didn't notice it at first. There is an underwater kingdom, so that could be Namors castle back there 100%.
Zach: It also does make it look like she's just in a fish tank.
Guido: True.
Mike: The new SeaWorld attraction. They treat every attraction like shit. How about Julie the dolphin girl?
Speaker UNK: Right.
Zach: Well, that's on a side note. Goodbye. The brown is what I say every time I flush the toilet.
Rob: Why? You weren't gang.
Zach: I'm sorry.
Mike: Yeah.
Rob: Well, gang, I have a secret to tell you that I am, in fact, part crab. And I'm jumping into the ocean now, and I'm swimming out into our world of exploring multiversity.
Zach: I am your guy through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question what if?
Rob: And today we are asking that eternal question, what if Aunt May had been bitten by a radioactive spider? Aka, what if Aunt May, instead of her nephew Peter, had been bitten by a radioactive spider? And this is from what if? Number 23. It's the backup story in that issue. And this came out in October 1980.
Guido: And it's written by Steve Skeets, penciled and inked and colored and lettered by Alan Kupperberg, edited by Dennis O'Neill. And at this point, Steve Skates had done a lot of crazy, the Marvel magazine, that was a humor magazine and some comedy stuff. And then he actually went on to do Peter Porker. So he was big into the spiderman comedy, I think, and Alan Kupperberg had penciled a lot of crazy and what if and probably one issue of every Marvel title in the some point. He was a big fill in artist, it looks like. And Mike, you picked this issue for us. Can you tell us why?
Mike: Well, the main reason, of course, is Aunt May is a superhero. And I am fixated on this. I don't know why, but to me it's just amazing when generally young children or young adults become superheroes or 30 year oldest. She's pushing, what, 60 some here. And you don't see the elderly represented in a positive light in comic books very often. This is an exception to where an elderly woman is actually empowered and willing to take on the father of one of our favorite characters, Leapfrog. And I was just super excited about it.
Zach: I couldn't help. Yeah.
Mike: That was like.
Zach: For example, when you're eating something and you eat all, uh, your favorite bits, and then you eat a bit more, and then there's a little favorite bit. Is it like a nice little surprise?
Guido: Yeah.
Zach: When I turned the page and Leapfrog was there, I was just what a treat.
Guido: Yeah. And especially how she beats them, because she doesn't use web shooters, this Aunt May.
Mike: No. She spins him over her head and hits him in the face, swansea style.
Zach: This is true, in all fairness. Old ladies in Swansea. Bloody terrifying. One thing I did like, even if it is jumping ahead of it, just if we can have a, uh, quick chat about her costume, because it is the traditional spiderman colors, but she has updated it for the Elder Lady. It's got some nice touches, but what I really like is she's gone for frilly shoulder patterns, but it's given the artist license that when he's doing action poses, that it almost has the muscular journey used to in a superhero book. I thought that was a really clever little thing that they did.
Guido: Yeah, I didn't quite notice that, but I see that now, looking at the pages. That's a good observation. What is the deal with her hat, though?
Zach: It almost looks like some type of traditional Scottish bonnet or like a chef's hat, but red. It changes chef all the time, though, because there are certain times, from the top down, it looks like a pirate hat. What panel? It looks like a mushroom.
Guido: Yeah. And then sometimes it looks like a beret. I mean, maybe it is just a flexible hat. A hat for every occasion.
Zach: The almighty hat.
Mike: The multiverse of hat.
Guido: Exactly. Yes. And the reason I can't stop thinking about it as a chef hat, though, is because, of course, instead of the webshooters, uh, her special skill is discovered when she finds that too much yeast makes for this really sticky goo. And that she can use the sticky goo in a pastry, uh, squeezing thing. And that's how she can land when she is falling off of from high places. And that's also how she can capture Leapfrog by putting it around his foot.
Mike: I'm not letting her get away with this. Nobody cooks bread like that. Okay. I'm sorry. Aunt May is supposed to be a great cook. From what I've heard, she makes damn fine wheatcakes that Mary Jane likes. She apparently also crammed cream cheese in a bag lunch, which can't be safe. However, I don't know what she has put in the oven. It's spilling out. It looks like the blob is not, like, a small amount. What is she making?
Rob: Yeah, do you know that movie by the radioactive spider?
Zach: She's under a lot of stress.
Guido: It's true. It is. After she's bitten.
Zach: Yeah, she's coming to tubes with a lot of stuff very quickly.
Mike: And my final what is this? And I got to ask you page one, the fourth panel. I want to know, what if this police officer wasn't in this universe? I have a feeling Aunt May would have been hit by the bus, and the guy she ran over probably would have knocked a block off, because she is just like, I have to get this awful bag lunch to my frail ass nephew as quickly as possible. And she's like, forget New York City. Forget everything else that's going on. He needs lunch.
Rob: Yeah. It almost feels like the panel was taken, like, what should have been later in the story, after she got the super powers, because there's a man she's maybe knocked over. He's falling down. There's another guy in the background who's, like, looking in shock as what's happened. The guy in the foreground is also staring at her. The cop is staring at her, and he stopped the bus, which maybe was coming to hit her. It doesn't really make sense why all of this is happening around a woman at this point who does not have superpowers.
Mike: That'S not notice when exactly.
Zach: One thing I did notice going back to when she's put too much east in the oven. So the panel next to it, when you do the close up, why does Aunt May have two sets? Um, of eye rows. She has one above her eyes and one just under her headlines.
Mike: It's like Salvador Dolly just took liberty into one of the panels.
Guido: Wow. That's amazing. That might be a, um, spider feature. She's sort of becoming spiderlike in her brow.
Zach: Instead of growing all the extra eyes of a spider, she grows the eyebrows.
Rob: Or is she so wrinkly that those lower ones are just very heavy, deep wrinkles of skin? Yeah.
Zach: You're saying she's got a full blown Gordon Ramsey?
Mike: For all I know is Uncle Ben is so tired, she's running around in a Spider Man outfit, and he's just sleeping right there.
Rob: Yeah, it's a great little, uh, thing that every time we see Uncle Ben, he's just sleeping in this chair.
Guido: Yeah. So this was a fun adventure with Spiderman. Although she's not named in this, right?
Rob: Named in this.
Guido: I don't think she's yet named in this. Okay.
Zach: It answers, uh, the question twice. What if Aunt May, instead of her nephew Peter, had been bitten by a radioactive spider? Yes, we find out she would become Spider Man, but we also find out that Peter Parker would remain the most ineffectual human being. What is this kid about? What's he capable of? Absolutely nothing.
Guido: Uh, say it again.
Rob: Yes. And what we know all about or what we think about Peter and Spiderman is that he is this super quick wit, he's quippy, and even though he's, like, maybe nerdy in real life, he's got all this great charisma when he is Spiderman, and you don't get that at all here. He's like this fragile little child that she even has to take care of at the end, to the point where she's not even sure whether she could be a superhero because he needs so much coddler.
Guido: Well and when she defeats Leapfrog so Peter is talking to her. He says, no, stay away from me, you horrible monster. So he's so horrified by this old woman because she's wearing a red and blue cotton.
Rob: Well, some of that I thought, was.
Guido: Nothing that makes her so that was.
Rob: Kind of I thought them doing what Aunt May for years was horrified by Spiderman. Right. That Aunt May hate the idea of Spiderman, so they were kind of flipping it here, which even more absurd, though, that he faints, so that maybe pushes it over the edge. But I was thinking that's why he was so horrified, uh, by her.
Speaker UNK: Yeah.
Guido: So quite a trip. I'm glad we went on that journey. Before we get into the next phase of Spiderman's career, would anyone want more stories from this world? We actually do get them in a moment, but would you read an ongoing series of her? Do you want more? Do you want to see her in a movie?
Mike: Definitely. I want to see her face off against the moms of all the other guys that weren't superheroes. And we just have, like, a universe of old people, like The Hobgoblin.
Zach: Oh, my God. Oh, my God. She could go up against the Spinister Six.
Guido: That is perfect. Oh, wow.
Rob: Oh, my uh god.
Guido: Oh, my gosh.
Rob: I think you need to commission that bar, Zach. Yeah, like a doctor octopus, but each of his arms has a walker or cane.
Zach: No, it's one of those grabby things that old people used to get. We need to make this happen.
Guido: Yeah.
Rob: Mhm.
Guido: I love that. All right, well, let's get to the next installment.
Rob: I know, big story. Some would say this could have never been revisited, ever, but you'd be wrong. So let's discover some pondering possibilities.
Zach: Will the future you describe be averted.
Rob: And Guito? So what are we talking about for our pondering possibilities this week?
Guido: Well, Spider Ma'am does actually come back, um, a few times. So first, through the Spiderverse story, they actually visit Earth 3123 to try to kill her, and she's going to sacrifice herself to save Ben and Peter, but, of course, ends up being saved by the Spider army. And then we revisit that Earth in one of the Spiderverse anthology books prior to the one we read, where it turns out she's come out as the Spiderman, uh, two Ben and Peter, and they form a Team Spiderman, and then we encounter her yet again in this Spiderverse anthology book. And it's a really fun story with a lot to talk about, so I wanted us to read it.
Rob: Wow. Yeah, because normally, for most what if it. Does not really come back into play ever again. So it's so interesting to hear that this crazy character has actually returned to comics several times.
Guido: Um, yeah.
Zach: I mean, when you strike old, you strike old, right? You don't let that property die.
Guido: It's true. You got to lean into it.
Rob: So we read yes, so we read spiderverse, volume three, issue number two, from January 2020.
Guido: Yeah. This is also our most recent outing. And it's written by Ryan North. Penciled by Perry Perez, inked by Jordy Taragana Garcia, colored by Marte Gracia, lettered by Joe Sabino and edited by Nick Lowe. So what do you all think of this?
Mike: Wild. I had no idea when we picked the what if because obviously I'm not as familiar with newer comics being an older man and not collecting as many new comics. However, when you guys sent me this book, I was like, what am I reading here? And within three or four pages, it goes off the rails. It's amazing. And as you said, it ties into the what if story. It's great. The plot makes Stan Lee's plot sometimes look like Stephen King because the plot at the end was a little wonky. But we'll get to that.
Zach: Yes, it was.
Guido: Yeah, but before you get to the end, I mean, we have to encounter, of course, carnage Aunt May.
Mike: Freaking amazing.
Guido: You're welcome for that. Bringing her into your life if you didn't know about her already.
Zach: You guys are spoiling us. We've had Aunt May and the Dolphin Girl. Um aunt May vs. Leapfrog. Um and carnage. Aunt May this has been the best podcast in history.
Guido: So in the story, they fight this evil Ben, evil Peter, and evil Aunt May, who has the Carnage symbiote miles is there and also has to fight the evil Miles, the Miles we know, traveling into different Spiderverses in this miniseries to encounter and protect these different people. But I think the big twist or big ending Mike you're talking about, that is very Stanley Steve, uh, ditko, but at its worst involves hearts. Can anyone make sense of the climax?
Mike: No. Not even going to try again.
Zach: Going back to what I said about conveniences in comic book writing, they got to this point in the plot and they were like, what are we going to do? And they're like, boys, why are we trying to make sense of this? Let's just put a fucking heart on the wall. Everyone in every conceivable universe should aware story done. Let's get a lot.
Mike: Yeah, but everyone in every conceivable universe did that, and it wasn't quite enough. It took the love of uncle, um, Ben, and Peter to push it just over the edge. And the convoluted conversation where Peter Parker is taking an ass whipping and he's like, literally watching the Evil Dead too. And Annie's about ready to get sucked into the vortex or whatever. She's sitting there mansplaining to ash. Exactly. Everything that's going on this feels like that because he's just sitting there trying to explain it to Uncle Ben and Uncle Ben's making sense of it. And even Anne may be like, oh, I know what to do. And I'm like, no, you guys are getting your ass whipped. And I want to say this Carnage Aunt May is the scariest possibly, like, super villain I've ever seen. I mean, I love this carnage version. Bring her back. I mean, I haven't been this frightened of a kid since this frightened of a lady, a woman of anything since you remember the girl in the Grudge when she kind of walked around and freaked everybody out? This is like, yeah, she's on that level.
Guido: Or the ring girl, she crawls out. This is like that level.
Zach: I'm just still kind of stuck on what is that shop? What incredible idea had someone come up with that? In any possible conceivable universe, that shop would be open. That is impressive. They are onto a million dollar idea in every conceivable universe and we haven't.
Mike: Even touched on the fact that we get like an evil Miles Morales in this wearing like a New Balance jacket or something. I don't know what it was.
Zach: And why is evil Peter Parker when he comes out of the vortex, it's just Kevin from Sin City.
Rob: Yeah, well, it's not clear too, like if evil Ben and evil Peter have any powers or not, or they're just evil because then a lot of the time is evil Peter beating up on good Peter. Spiderman is trying to get Peter to come up with a solution, but he's getting the bejesus kicked out of it at the same time. So I don't know how he's also coming up with all these solutions uh, while he's getting pounded by his doppelganger.
Zach: This is the same thing that when he saw Leapfrog.
Guido: It is the same very sensitive, fragile Peter from the what if that we met.
Mike: I don't know. He's really putting antman into place here. He says in one of the panels, evil ant may put a sock in it because that's going to solve the entire dilemma here.
Rob: Yeah, I like how they do a great job or Ryan North does a great job of keeping the language for Antmay and for this peter very consistent and they have this kind of old timey way of speaking where they're using these kind of antiquated words. But it makes sense for this kind of super PG universe that I guess we find ourselves in.
Mike: Even the evil we do get an.
Rob: Evil Carnage at May is kind of also speaks in that very same way. Like it's not like Cletus Cassidy kind of speaking. It has almost like an old lady kind of version of speaking but then filtered through Carnage, which is so interesting.
Guido: I like that when they activate the heart powers of love, we get many other worlds where May Parker has become different characters you have, like, the spider gwen May the Spider Woman. May you have the Miles Morales may the black Symbiote costume. May you have, like, every version of Spiderman, but maybe one where she's just.
Zach: A giant spider, the Fantastic Fool, which has got the bag on her head.
Guido: Yeah. And I also, um, then love the part where we find out that this May Parker intentionally kept the bottom half of her face uncovered so that people would underestimate her because they'd see she was an old woman.
Zach: Yeah, that was a nice touch. I like that.
Rob: Yeah.
Mike: He was wearing a chef because people chefs kiss because he's wearing a chef's hat.
Zach: In the first book, it was the Omni hat. This 100% chef's hat.
Guido: Yes. They mhm really did lean into it here.
Rob: And there's a lot about mhm the costume and clothing, because there's some great Peter and Ben also comparing maybe there's a universe where they're not wearing a sweater vest, which is also shocking to them as well.
Guido: What if I do, like, at the.
Zach: End when Miles help, uh, May save the day, he's off to another Spiderverse adventure. She gives him a big treat to take with him, but also delivers a pie to that is it. This universe is miles Morales because we've also had evil Miles Morales Yet we get a scene of Miles Morales in his civilian clothing holding a pie, saying the words Anonymous pie.
Mike: And also, two panels later, we get to see Peter Parker looking timid, but also looking at, let's not forget, part of a Symbiote that was left behind by evil antmay. Yeah.
Guido: And at the end, for now, question mark. I feel like we could end up back in this universe once again and may have to fight Peter.
Zach: I've just noticed that in Peter Parker's bedroom, uh, he's got a movie poster for Quick and Angry Nine.
Guido: Yes, he does. So, yeah, I think this is a fun story to build on, the Spectacular Spiderman's story. Anything else anyone wants to add about it?
Zach: Honestly excited to see if we do get the story of Spiderman having to go up against Symbiote Peter and not like an else will Symbiote Peter, her own Peter, the child she raised. That would be an mhm amazing story.
Rob: Yes. Now, we know, though, that this Peters is so horrible and such a pushover that I feel like it wouldn't be much of a fight.
Zach: So I think the carnage would be that more able to, uh, corrupt him.
Guido: That's what I'm uh like an empty vessel, blank slate for the Carnage symbiote to just, like, go bonkers.
Zach: We've come up with some great comic ideas so far on this episode. How tight the spin is a six in.
Mike: I'll tell you what, we're making an assumption that the symbiote ends up applying itself to Peter. What if it actually applies itself to Eugene Petillo? And the evil Eugene Petillo goes through a multiverse and to keep him from ruling that multiverse. The real Eugene Patillo in his frogman outfit has to run into a quickie burger and eat a hamburger, along with all the other multiverses Eugene Petillo to save and open a portal to send this back again.
Zach: Ten out of ten would read that budget.
Mike: It's all about Frog Man.
Guido: Yeah, that's a good proposal. I like it. A lot of potential. So, obviously, uh, we can't even really discuss if the what if inspired this, because, yes, it's in the what if universe. This is a unique what if in that it had sequels in its universe, so there wasn't really anything expired.
Rob: I want to know who was going through the Marvel Archive. I don't know if Peter Sanderson was working there anymore, but, like, who was going through and finding this, because it's a backup story from a what if. Was Ryan North reading this and getting inspired? That's the story I really want to hear, too.
Mike: This was the week that Zach actually worked for Marvel, before they listened to our show and the horrible things we said, and he was fired. But this is the one store he actually brought to the table, and it was excited about.
Zach: I walked into the board meeting and I said, lol, boys, have I got the idea for you. Without all formal business meetings with Lowell, apparently.
Guido: Well, we're all better off for it. So any other concluding thoughts on antmay? On what versions of Antmay we enjoyed seeing or wanting?
Rob: Do you both have a favorite antmay from the movies to or from any of the comics that we've read?
Zach: Spoilers. Uh, cover your ears if you haven't played Marvel. Spiderman on, uh, PlayStation. The first one, the story with Aunt May, uh, in that is gripping, and I don't want to spoil it if any of you haven't played it or plan on playing it. Am I okay to, uh, spoil it?
Guido: Well, you've given fair warning. I played it, and Rob won't play it.
Zach: Oh, my God. The end of that game, when you, uh, watch Antman die fucking broke me. Oh, my God. I was literally in tears at that point. Horrible.
Guido: Yeah, I agree. I think that is a great antmay. I totally agree. I was actually thinking about her when we were talking earlier about the different ant maze we've seen, because both the design she has the right look, but then the voice acting. Yeah. She's a good Aunt May.
Speaker UNK: Yeah.
Mike: And I'll just say this about this story that you introduced here is I am obsessed with carnage Aunt May. I think she is just wild to me. She's my favorite of all of them, because if you look about four or five pages back when she's, like, leaned down and her knees are up, I mean, she's horrifying looking, she's got sharp teeth, and it's an amazing picture. And you get the nice, cute ant May, but then you just get this aunt May. That literally, if you didn't know that was Aunt May, and you threw that against any superhero and said it was just some female angry Symbiote, she would scare you to death. The only thing that even brings some kind of levity to it is the fact that, say, it May, but it doesn't have to be. Symbiotes can be pretty powerful. They don't need a strong host. So she is absolutely frightening to me.
Zach: What I love about that panel, specifically, is that, as you say, the way that she's positioned within these, she's almost, like Deadite esque in him, but with the legs in the foreground, it just insinuates, uh, that she's about to bite out spiderman's like Achilles. It leads to what could be a really horrible moment of violence.
Guido: I think what idea I'd really like to see now is this is how we get Marissa Tome back in the MCU is carnage at Symbiote.
Rob: Well, again, spoilers if you haven't seen the movie, but in The Stinger, right, for the last Spiderman movie, we know some of the Symbiote was left on Earth, right? So what if the Symbiote goddess, Marissa, did her dead body bring it back to life somehow? Yeah, totally.
Zach: I want to see a 24. Make a movie with Teresa mumi and John Favreau. Maybe. Um, playing Uncle Ben. I don't know. Some uncle. Um, ben Carson. But raising a secluded dolphin child. I think that should be a good one.
Mike: I was going to say all I want to see now is bring Sam Raimi back to the Spiderverse and let him direct the next movie, multiverse of Madness style with Marisa Tome Symbiote. I am 1000% down for this. That'd be amazing.
Guido: Yeah. And Linda Brown. And then it ties into the a 24 spinner.
Rob: Yeah, they could bring in another creepy old lady from X. And you're bringing all the old ladies in.
Guido: Uh, get our Sinister Six going on.
Zach: The four old lady cinematic universe.
Guido: So, anything else to add before we wrap up?
Mike: Not really. The one thing I do want to add is, as a fan of the show, it is amazing to be here. I want to thank you for having us on. I am having a blast. I know Zach has checked you guys out as well, so hopefully he's having a blast as well. This has been a good time and this is a great format and just a great concept, and I love your shows. That's all. I'm just standing over here. Sorry.
Rob: Thank you.
Guido: Well, you are the Antmay Stan account right now. I have to let our listeners know that that's your username in our window.
Rob: Yeah. You all have so many great episodes. I think the first episode of you all I listened to was your David Letterman episode. Uh, because I was such a big Letterman fan, when he went off the air, I went dumpster diving, and I have part of his set down in our base. So once I discovered wait, David Letterman was in a comic? It was like Mindblowing. But thank you both so much for being here. Thank you. Of course, Guido, we have come to our end, but I have been Rob.
Guido: And I have been Guido.
Rob: And dear watchers, thank you for listening. And also a special thank you to Mike and Zach from Multi vs. Of Badness.
Guido: Thank you.
Mike: Please.
Zach: Thank you very much for having us.
Rob: No, thank you. And please tell everyone where they can find you.
Guido: Sure.
Mike: You can reach us on the Twitter at multiverse. Abad. You can actually check out our podcast, which is how we met these guys in the first place. You can just go to multiverseabadness.com and reach us there. If you want to send us an email, zach has a special email address just for this show that he's going to give you right now. That 100%, and I kid you not.
Zach: Actually works 100% can send us an email at remember that, uh, time that Uncle Ben and Aunt May kidnap that dolphin girl and then lost her at Multiverse of Badness.com?
Guido: I am emailing you guys tomorrow.
Zach: Believe me.
Guido: Uh, love it. Well, the reading list, if you want to check out these issues is in the show notes. And you can follow us on Twitter at deerwatchers.
Rob: Uh, and leave us and multiverse this a review wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.
Guido: In the meantime, in the words you want to keep, pondering the possibilities, safe for allstate.