Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

>> Rob: Grab yourself an ice cold glass of Absolute Comics Perfected. And welcome to Dear Watchers in Omniversal Comic Book Podcast, where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

>> Guido: We are traveling with you, abstaining from drinking through the stories and the worlds that make up an omniverse of fictional realities we all love. And your watchers on this journey are me, Guido, but slightly different and darker than you last knew me. Which is actually true.

>> Rob: It's Rob. But I'm from hell.

>> Guido: I was going to say that, but, yeah, I figured I'd go for something else.

>> Rob: Well, before we begin today's trip to a brand new universe, Guido, what's new in our little section of the multiverse?

>> Guido: Well, we've been on Blue sky for a year and a half. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. But we're super active now that everyone has migrated to it. I think every single comic creator that was, previously on Other Social media is on Blue Sky. So find us there, chat with us there, follow us there, follow everybody else on there. It's great. Like the early days of that other platform, where you can just have lots of conversations and people are posting things and are being positive and you're discovering new things. So find us on bluesky. That's really fun.

>> Rob: And if you're joining us here on the podcast for the first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse today. Origins of the story, exploring multiversity, and pondering possibilities. So thanks for coming along and remember.

>> Guido: To leave us a five star review. Wherever you're listening, find us on bluesky and Instagram earwatchers.

>> Rob: And with that, welcome to episode 147. And let's check out what's happening in the Omniverse with our travels to today's alternate universe. And today we are heading to the dark side. Where is it? Dark Seed. I always want to say dark Seed, but Dark side.

>> Guido: We're in the dark side as it is.

>> Rob: Yes, exactly. Well, we're answering the question, what if the world was taken over by a dark tyrant and it felt like there was no hope? Oh, wait, never mind. That is our hope.

>> Guido: This is not a political podcast. We're talking comics.

>> Rob: Yes, yes. Well, this, this Imagine imaginative universe is pretty, pretty similar. It's actually, what if Batman had no money, Superman had no family, and Wonder Woman was from hell?

>> Guido: Yeah, we'll see about those questions. what we think of them, they actually come straight out of the marketing for this universe. So this is a brand new universe. And this is a one of our rare contemporary episodes. We're not very often timely, but this one felt like a good opportunity to be timely once again because this world is debuting narratively right now, and we're going to get into what this world is. But it did debut back in Dark Knight's Death Metal Number seven as a tease. And here we are three years later, getting that payoff. Finally. We've not covered death metal, though. I love it and hope to one day. I think it's probably best covered, like, under the influence of psychedelic, mushrooms.

>> Rob: Totally bonkers, with some Ozzy playing in the background.

>> Guido: But, we haven't. So today's absolute Earth is also known as the Else World, or Alpha World. We did just cover, for the first time, Marvel's sort of analog, and we're going to talk about that. The Ultimate Universe back in episode 144. We have, of course, covered our Batman's origin back in episode 78, Superman's way back in episode 51, and Wonder Woman's in episode 79. If you go to deerwatchers.com and click episodes, you can search anything to get through our back catalog and find the origins that lead us to today's Earth.

>> Rob: That's interesting. We did Batman and Wonder Woman back to back. I don't even remember that we did.

>> Guido: Because we were doing. We covered their origins with the Just imagine Stan Lee issues, and we were covering a cluster of those. So that's how that happened.

>> Rob: Well, speaking of DC's Trinity, we've talked about each character individually, as you said, but let's talk about their origins and our thoughts about the Trinity, because, Guido, this is probably, like, are there three characters from, like, one property, one place that are more famous than these three characters? Maybe not.

>> Guido: Absolutely not. No. I don't think. I don't think it's possible that anyone has an answer that says yes. Because, with Marvel being probably the biggest, you know, competing character, IP Farm, there are not three characters who are so clearly the upper echelon of that universe, who are not so clearly the images, the symbols of that universe that you associate everything to. And that is true for DC. And of course, DC is 30 years older than Marvel. So these characters are approaching their centennials. In fact, we're going to start hitting centennials, if we survive the next decade with these three characters. And it's so fascinating to me that they are so deeply linked. When did you first realize that? Or think of them as a trinity? Or, like, when did you, as someone who's more ah of a casual comics person start to realize like, wow, these three characters are something different than everyone else.

>> Rob: You know, I think it's actually through other mediums than comics because I'm thinking all three of them had TV shows. And I didn't watch the Wonder Woman TV show growing up, but I did watch the Batman 66 of course, which was one of my favorite TV shows. And I did watch, although I found it very boring, the George Reeves Superman show. then I did watch also the Christopher Reeve movies and of course the Tim Burton Batman movies. So I think there was just something like before you could pick up comics or go to the comic book store, I was sat down in front of the TV and those two out of three of those characters were coming at me through other ways. And you can say the same thing with a Marvel character. I guess what Spider man probably came the first, but those were not anywhere near close to like Batman 66.

>> Guido: No. And Spider Man's probably the closest. What's interesting, I think, and it probably actually has to do with the corporate IP stuff because you know, the MCU launched around Iron man and Iron man became so famous, that sort of moved Iron man up. But Iron man will never be the, the in the top tier of Marvel. And then of course you have the really under represented X Men, even though they for many decades were the best selling comics for Marvel. So you just have it's more diffuse, I think. And so Spider man is probably the only exception in Marvel where like that character, the symbols, the colors, all of that, like anyone, almost anyone on earth can see and immediately recognize. But I don't know that Marvel has another one. So no.

>> Rob: And everyone knows Spider Man's origin story. But grab someone off the street and have them tell you Thor's origin story, especially as it is in the comics. And they'll be like, I have no idea what you're. But have the same person tell you Superman's story or Batman story? Probably not Wonder Woman's story because she's had a million Wonder Woman.

>> Guido: I mean it's, it's complicated, but most people know she's an Amazon, right? They might not even know what Themyscira is, but people I think know that she's an Amazon. Somehow she's linked up to like Greek gods. So yeah, I think these are so core and they're such an interesting three. And I really love. One of the things that when I first was getting really into DC Comics probably about 20 years ago, a little more, was the fact that Writers, started to realize this and there was a little bit of that not totally meta, but self referential storytelling happening with like, Geoff John's buildup to Infinite Crisis, where it was like, what does it mean that we have these three characters in universe? Like, you started getting stories of, like, what, how do they suck the air out of the room? And like, what happens to all the other heroes when you have these three characters like this? Or what happens if these three characters break apart? And what if they're no longer unified and they're in conflict? And I loved stories like that. And so that is what really got me into the world of D.C. on a much deeper level. And so it's fun now to see this happening with what we're reading for today. More, more reference to what it means to have these three characters that are so another level yet.

>> Rob: I think we'll get more into this as we talk about how their origin stories have changed in these issues. But I think, yes, everyone knows their origin stories and we've also come back to them so many times as well. Like, I think there's a joke about how many times we've seen Martha Wayne's pearls fall on the ground. Like it needs to be included in everything. And even when they did the new Superman and Lois, like, they had to go back to Smallville and Smallville and there was a whole TV show called Smallville. Like, the Smallville aspect, the, Wayne parents getting killed, like, all of that is so integral. And even when you think of Spider man, like, they were able to do a new Spider man series without going back and showing you him getting bitten and without setting up the Osborn family and all that. Like they. That was secondary to his story. But it's not secondary to Superman and Batman.

>> Guido: Yeah, well, they've become archetypes. They are archetypes, without a doubt. And so it's interesting when that gets played with, which is part of what elseworlds has always done. And now we're seeing it happen in a different way, possibly for the first time, which is really cool.

>> Rob: Well, before this planet explodes, both physically and metaphorically, let's jump into our first segment, Origins of the story. Right now on this very show, you're gonna get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago. And first up is DC, all in special number one. Cover date December 2024. And I notice all these cover dates are actually in the future. Ooh. Because this is so new, we're so timely this time. This story is entitled Alpha and Omega.

>> Guido: Well, it's two stories. One Alpha, Omega.

>> Rob: Yes.

>> Guido: So these are written by Joshua Williamson and Scott Snyder. The first Alpha is done by Danielle Sempere and Dan Mora, colored by Alejandro Sanchez, no relation. And Chamra Bon Braun Villain, lettered by Steve Wans, edited by Marquis Draper and Paul Kaminsky. Omega, on the other hand, still Joshua and Scott, penciled by Wes Craig, who does the inks, colored by Mike Spicer, lettered again by Steve Wans. And same editors, Marky Draper and Paul Kaminsky.

>> Rob: I think Joshua and Scott, like, flipped their names. So I think Joshua's name was first for Alpha and Scott's name is first for Omega. I'm curious if, like, one of them took the lead on one and then the other.

>> Guido: Well, and these are the two big architects of this. And so many stories, especially a number of events, lead into this. Joshua Williamson is so Scott Snyder does death metal. Joshua Williamson sort of picks up from there with Infinite Frontier and is the architect of the Lazarus Project thing. And other, recent stories like Absolute Power. And then now Scott Snyder stepping back in to, like, pick up all these pieces that have been left over the last three years. And so this special why we read it is because it's not only launching the era of all in which we can talk briefly about, because they're doing that here with the Justice League setup and. But it also debuts the universe that we're going to get into. The absolute universe debuts here on page. So let's start with you. Since you had less context for this issue. What's your initial?

>> Rob: Yes, I did. I did. But they do a great job of really not you not needing that context in order to get into the story. Even though our kind of entry point for especially Alpha is Booster Gold, a character I don't really know very well. I kind of just know, hey, he cracks jokes and he's a time traveler, but that's all you really need to know. Even though he's kind of our de facto central character. And I don't know all the. I know of the Spectre because I'm a JSA fan. The Spectre plays a big part in this, but I don't know all of his lore, but they do a good job of, I think, giving you enough kind of of the seeds here. And it very much feels like a first issue, a pilot of a TV show. It's very. Has that introductory, let's bring the band back together kind of feel. What did you think? As someone who knows this world much better than I do, I love it.

>> Guido: I Mean, first of all, I love a lot of things about it, but the art is so good. I mean, Daniel Semper, I own a page of his Wonder Woman art because I think he's that extraordinary, and I feel very lucky to be able to do that. But here, especially with Dan Mora's collaboration, I mean, it's just beautiful. It's beautiful. I can't even believe it. So, to a certain extent, it doesn't even matter what's happening, because it's just so nice to look at. And then Wes Craig, I think, is such a perfect companion piece. So if anyone's not read this issue, what the two stories are telling. The first story, Alpha, is telling the Justice League opening itself up to having everyone who's ever been a member be a member. And this is a really powerful moment. We're going to follow it up with the series Justice League Unlimited, which hasn't come out yet as of this recording. And so it's setting a new status quo. But while that happens, Darkseid comes in and attacks them. He's bonded to the specter. He kills, they kill Darkseid. And we discover that this Alpha planet, this other universe that was referred to back in death metal as existing and being nascent and gathering up some energies, we discover that there's a rip torn into reality that can be entered. Now, this is important because the multiverse has been closed off at this point. So that's one detail that, like, you get through the context, but you might not have known. Absolute power. Amanda Waller closes off the multiverse, so we have no more travel between the Earth. They all still exist, but you can't travel between them. I think it's a storytelling thing. I think it helps them keep stories a little cleaner.

>> Rob: Yeah, because for years they were so known for all these different earths and everything. Like, that's what you associated DC with and the else. Worlds, tales and stuff, all the stuff we've covered on the podcast. So you think they wanted to kind of hone in on, these core characters, maybe to bring in readers and have less distraction, less other stories happening at the time.

>> Guido: I think it also just helps with the. It's the issue that Marvel's having in the movies. I think with fans, narratively, is like, once, you have the multiverse, there are some good story potentials from it, but also anything's game at that point. And so it doesn't actually create a lot of interesting stories. I also suspect it had a lot to do with the launch of what we're Talking about today, I think you can't have the absolute universe without having it sort of live separately. You can't link it up to the core universe because that defeats the mission of it, which we'll get into in our next segment. A little. So Booster Gold goes through, discovers something about this Earth, not clear what. We get glimpses of our three characters, and the story ends. You flip the book. It's a flip book, which is very cool. You didn't have that experience because you read it digitally. You flip the book and you get the other half of the story, Omega, which backs up 52 days. Of course, 52 is a really, really important number in the DC Universe. There were 52 Earths for a really long time. There's 52 weeks in a year, of course. So there's a reason, like, this number is so relevant. And we get Darkseid's story and what's building up to Darkseid ending up on the Watchtower and attacking the Justice League and then dying. And it has to do with. He gets this miracle machine. It gets him. He kills one of his children in order to make this machine work. He's trying. He knows when the multiverse got shut out, when Amanda Waller shut it out, he felt something, and he knows there's some energy, and he's trying to figure that out. And so he wants to bond with a specter to figure out where this energy is. He goes to, like, all the different cosmic beings and then determines he needs. The specter, bonds with him, attacks the Justice League, gets killed. And then his energy therefore exists in this Alpha Universe. And we don't yet even know what that's going to mean. We have no idea.

>> Rob: Well, going back to what you were also saying about the art, what's so cool is that the art styles are totally different for the two halves. The first half, very super polished superhero looks. Everyone looks like the ideal superhero version of themselves. And then the dark side version has this very. I kind of almost call it sketchy kind of look. It. It's not on, the details, but it very much feels like, oh, this is like the apocalypse version of it. So it's a very cool going into those two.

>> Guido: Yeah, I agree. It's well executed that they don't feel totally separate, but they are very different. And so, yeah, I love this. Now I want to bring in the idea of the Ultimate Universe that we just talked about for Marvel a few episodes back, because one of the interesting things. It was your first experience with the Ultimate Universe. It was our first coverage of it. The Ultimate Universe didn't have a genesis. There wasn't an origin to it. It just was created. And that's no longer true. The new iteration of the Ultimate Universe has a genesis. It has a reason it exists. And that's really interesting. This is an interesting way of telling the. A story where they're telling us the creation of an alternate universe. What did you think about that? Maybe, we should hold this for the second segment. But I'm curious now, in this issue, like, what did you think of the setup of, like, okay, there's this whole other universe, and here's its reason for being.

>> Rob: It's hard to say without going into seeing where the all in Special storyline is going to continue, because while I very much.

>> Guido: You mean like the Booster Gold being stuck?

>> Rob: The Booster Gold story?

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: yeah. Because while I very much enjoyed the issue, I also don't think you need to have a setup issue. I think you could very much just say, we're telling these other stories now and have. And have at it. But I guess maybe they felt like they wanted to create a more cohesive universe around it, in which case, like, having this all in Special, I think helps in that way. So I don't think it was necessary, but I certainly. I did. I enjoyed it still, even without it being necessary.

>> Guido: I think only time will tell, really, because we don't know. We don't know how much the absolute universe which we're about to get into will link up to the DC prime universe. We don't know. Obviously, there's going to be a story about Booster Gold now being trapped there. Obviously, there's a story to tell about Darkseid's energy. Some, of it is the origin of the universe, which we'll talk about in our next segment. But there are stories to tell there that keep that other Earth linked to the Earth we know. And so I'm, Just. It'll. It'll be a question of when ultimately. And I don't know if that's a year from now, three years from now. I don't think it's less than a year from now. I think they're going to let the other universe breathe, but I think we are going to get these other stories. And it's just interesting to me that they're creating this whole other world, but keeping it linked to the world we know, which is not what Marvel was doing with the Ultimate Universe project in its first iteration.

>> Rob: Well, and speaking of the Ultimate Universe project, do you think that this idea was inspired by that. Because as we get into our individual issues in just a moment, I was very much getting what we were just covering from that ultimate universe. And of course they had a giant hit character with Miles Morales. So do you think that D.C. was inspired by their rival here?

>> Guido: I don't know if it's an inspiration because that was 20 years ago. Over 20 years ago. So it's hard to say that that inspired this. I do think that they are trying to do some similar things. Whether that's taking inspiration or not, I have no idea. But I think m. It's hard to talk about it without getting through the issues. So we can return to this question. So I think there are similar things for sure. With the huge time cap that passed, I don't think it's an inspiration. Maybe just the idea lived in the back of some of these creators minds and then when they were starting to figure out some ideas for creating this new world, they, it showed up.

>> Rob: But yeah, well, let's step into Earth Alpha then. And it's exploring multiversity.

>> Guido: I am your guide through these vast new realities.

>> Rob: Follow me and ponder the question.

>> Guido: What if?

>> Rob: And first question we are asking ourselves today is what if Batman had no money. And this is from absolute Batman number one from December 2024. And the story is entitled the Zoo Part 1 of 5.

>> Guido: It's written by Scott Snyder. So architect of a lot of this initiative. Penciled by Nick Dragoda who does the inks. Colored by Frank Martin. Lettered by Clayton Cowles Edited by Sabrina Futch and Katie Kubert. It is the first title to come out. We read these in chronological order. So it's the first of the three to come out in sequence. And I do want to say, I wasn't kidding. That question is the poster that advertised this world. So it wasn't what if. They did not use what if question obvious for obvious reasons. But it was, you know, no money. Something, you know, blah blah, blah, blah blah. A few like taglines. And one of them was that. So I think that kind of is the question though. This isn't like an Else Worlds where it's just giving us a story of Batman with no money. It's transforming actually quite a bit. So I loved this. I loved rereading it too. I had read it the first time and enjoyed it and reading it a second time. I appreciate just what Snyder is doing and how many little touches there are that really get at the mission now of the absolute universe. And this is the mission that I think is tied to the ultimate universe. How do we boil down this character to its essence, rebuild it in a different way? And it's not an elseworlds in, like, how do we boil it down and rebuild it? But it's a woman or something like that, right? It's the character we know, but it's. Let's have his father be a teacher. Let's have, his mother survive. Sorry. Spoiler alert. We're assuming everyone's read these comics, but I love that moment. I want to return to it. Let's have his inspiration in the Bat be sort of, architectural, like design. He designs the bridge as a kid, and that inspires him then to create these wings. And he has these blades in his helmet. Like, it's a lot more integrated than just the symbology of bat for fear. It's like he's actually using the bat. How do we have. I, mean, Alfred in this case is the, kind of narrator, protagonist. And Alfred knows Bruce's Batman because it's irrelevant, because Bruce is unknown in this town. No one cares. So it. He doesn't. The secret identity is irrelevant. And so it's just. It's an interesting. There's a difference on enough levels that it feels really different, but of course, still feels like Batman. He's dealing with trauma. He's trying to be a vigilante and figure out how to do that. So I loved it. What did you think?

>> Rob: Yeah, I thought. I really enjoyed it a lot. I thought it's very. It's got that darkness, but it doesn't almost feel overly dark, if that makes sense. Like, sometimes I think they can lean too much into the darkness, quote unquote. With Batman, I think there's lots of really great touches. I love seeing the kind of way that certain characters were transformed. Some really great villains that I'd love to get into as well. My question for you, though, is it's almost. It's interesting that they led with Batman has no money, because to me, that isn't. I don't know. It doesn't. I guess he. Yes, he's such a famously wealthy character, and yes, he uses all his money for this technology, but I think I don't think of Batman with the wealth in the same way. So his character, not Bruce, not having the money didn't seem like a huge difference to me. Maybe the bigger difference to me was actually the fact that his mother is alive, because that even feels more core to his origin than him being a wealthy person.

>> Guido: I would have agreed until my second reading. On my second Reading I saw the ways that Snyder is using that detail. So whether he has money or not is not the relevant part. What's relevant is without money, he doesn't have infinite technology. So the gun he later uses, first of all, he's using an axe, because an axe is obviously cheaper than all of the stuff that Batman has. Then the gun he uses later is the gun he took from Alfred. So there's these little ways where you see, like, okay, Batman is you. You're suspending disbelief in the world of Batman in. In numerous ways, but one of them being that, like, he just has infinite gadgets. He never has. He's never going to run out of, smoke bombs. He's never going to run out of these things. And this Batman. That's not true. And so that's one side of it.

>> Rob: Yeah, but I would say that his gadgets. I never think of Batman's gadgets as being incredibly advanced technology. And maybe some of this is even me thinking back to, like, I don't know, Batman 66 and other things too. But like a Batarang, it's like, it's a boomerang that's shaped like a bat. It's like a grappling hook. Like, these are not as advanced as even someone like the Green Arrow.

>> Guido: Where are you gonna go buy a grappling hook?

>> Rob: Okay, well, like, see that? But he also think about it, Alfred's gun here, like, he's able to change it enough that it completely, like, changes how it works. So, like, well, it just makes it not kill.

>> Guido: So. Yeah, but he. We can assume Tinker still. I don't know that you can tinker yourself. Yes, but he flies. They explain the flying through the design of the wings that he had created as a child when he.

>> Rob: Bruce Wayne can also fly with, like, his own, like, cape and things too. So I don't see that there's. I don't think of Bruce as being. I don't think of Batman as having this super advanced technology compared to some other characters. And like, compared to Iron man, for example. Yes. If Iron man had no money, he'd be a complete character than Bruce.

>> Guido: That is for sure. But I think that's. In some ways that's what's so good here, is because there is such an essence of Batman that isn't about all of that. That other stuff that isn't about the Batmobile and isn't about the Batcave. He has no cave here. He has no Batmobile here. Right. You're stripping him of a lot of the Stuff that we associate with him. But it's on a story. It's on reading a story like this that you realize that's not actually the core of him. And that's what I think was cool in my second reading of it. And then the flip side of it I mentioned earlier is the Bruce Wayne thing. By stripping Bruce Wayne of money, you make him a more everyman character.

>> Rob: Well, that's true.

>> Guido: He works. He has a job, right? He has a job. So Batman has a job that's different than we've ever seen before.

>> Rob: Yes.

>> Guido: Batman gets all of his knowledge by actually getting jobs in certain places. He'll go get a job so he can, like, learn the sewer system of the city. And, like, so all of that is, like, just an interesting way of seeing him as different. And again, Bruce Wayne gets to, like, live a life of leisure and gets to go travel with Ra's al Ghul and gets to, like, go study whatever he wants to go study. But, like, this Bruce Wayne didn't have that and had to figure out how to collect knowledge and still has to figure out how to balance having a job.

>> Rob: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think. I think where I'll be really curious how it proceeds is what role. And I don't know if her name is Martha here. I don't know if we know her name, but what role is.

>> Guido: They are pretty consistent, even I love. Like, like, so Commissioner Gordon is the mayor, but he's still Jim Gordon. He has a Barbara daughter, Barbara, though Barbara is black. So we're assuming that Barbara has a different mother or is adopted. Like, there's some, you know, there's differences, but they're keeping those characters. I love when he's talking with. When Bruce is talking with Croc, who's not yet mutated in, the gym. And Croc talks about Ozzy, and it turns out he's talking about the Penguin. And, like, the Penguin.

>> Rob: Yeah. There's Harvey and Selena. We see a photo of them and that they're all friends. So. Yeah.

>> Guido: And they're all at the same, like, boxing gym. So it's. I think they're. Yeah, I think. I'm sure his mother's Martha. That's my point.

>> Rob: But it would be interesting with Martha is having that hope, having that connection to humanity that the Bruce Wayne that we know doesn't really have. I mean, he has Alfred, but we know, like, he lost everything in some ways now he had that figure, a mother still kind of grounding him. So I would be curious how that affects the character yes, we can assume he lost his father from this issue. But how will having a mother have changed that character? I think that will be even a bigger change that we'll see as this.

>> Guido: Well, and Alfred makes a point, and this has been true at times for Batman, and not true at times. Alfred makes a point of observing how careful he is not to kill. And so that could be one aspect of it is that he has that sense of humanity from the get go. But it's also, I love that it's positioned as a vulnerability that in the end, Alfred is like, oh, this is your weakness. Your weakness is her. And so that's going to be, I'm sure part of the story is that by having a mother, he's more vulnerable than when he had no one.

>> Rob: Mm.

>> Guido: So.

>> Rob: And before we move on, I just wanted to mention some of the villains too, because the villains are great here. Black Mask is kind of our main villain, and he's got like a gang that wears the mask, but they also are wearing, like, prom outfits. And he's soup. The. His mask especially, much scarier looking than I've seen in a lot of the other comics. This skull, but with kind of this big bulbous head, almost looks like, like Professor X's like, helmet that he has.

>> Guido: It almost looks like he's like a Daft Punk dj.

>> Rob: Oh, daft Punk. Well, and he has the DJ going. Yeah. So he's very creepy. And they're super brutal. I mean, I don't know, you know Batman better than I do, but, like, they're really. They're killing children, they're killing, elderly people. They're gonna just slaughter this whole town hall. Like, they're very brutal. And then the hint of the other villain that we don't get is the Joker. And that's one of the biggest changes here, is that the Joker is one of the wealthiest people in the world and doesn't laugh.

>> Guido: It's a funny epilogue.

>> Rob: Yeah. and I'll be curious how that works because, like, oh, what if you gave the Joker a billion dollars? Is like a very interesting what if story.

>> Guido: And then how do you take him down? Yeah, well, and that's the fun thing. And I'll say before we transition, because it's going to become increasingly relevant, I think, over these three issues is the other mission of this Earth. And this is where the all in issue is so important, is that this Earth is darker. And I appreciate that they didn't just say, like, what if all these characters lived in, like, Just the worst version of reality. But the point is Darkseid's energy is what, created this Earth and was the genesis of this Earth. So I saw some interviews with Scott Snyder where he talks about on this Earth, heroes are not the thing. There aren't because there aren't a lot of superheroes at this point in time. People don't worship superheroes. Superheroes are not, don't exist really in this Earth. And so you have these characters who are going to have to create that role for themselves in a world that has not had them before. And so yeah, Gotham's a little extra brutal here and They've never had someone saving them. Even Alfred as this like MI M6ish character, we don't totally know what his motivation is or what this agency's motivation is. He's, he's not even super aggressively trying to stop the villains. So it's not at all. So I think all of that is a little darker, and built into the mission of it and becomes really obvious in this next issue.

>> Rob: Yeah. So our next question is, what if Wonder Woman was from hell? This is absolute Wonder woman number one from December 2024. The story is entitled the Last Amazon Part One.

>> Guido: Yes, this is written by Kelly Thompson, penciled and inked by Hayden Sherman, colored by Jordi Belair, lettered by Becca Carey and edited by Chris Conroy and Ash Padilla. And so this one is quite literally she's in hell. So if you haven't read this one, she grows up on hell as a sort of I guess ward of Circe, to use a Batman term. She, Diana grows, is given to Circe by Apollo because Zeus takes her away from the Amazons. And Circe has to raise her in hell but is not allowed to use the word Amazon. And in fact no one in the world other than Diana can utter that word Amazon.

>> Rob: Shades of Agatha all along with the teens true identity very much.

>> Guido: and then I'm sure.

>> Rob: But yeah, pretty much.

>> Guido: There are these hell demons that are invading and she is fighting them. She comes to fight them off of Gateway City. They seem, people seem to be used to these kinds of flying hell pterodactyls and then some bigger beast. But throughout that you were getting woven in her origin. So what was your take on this?

>> Rob: It's harder because I'm shakier on Wonder Woman's origin. And of course Wonder Woman has had like a million origins as we've talked about.

>> Guido: Well, this is also much more, I'd say this is Much more of a part one.

>> Rob: Yes.

>> Guido: Like, you're really. This is a, This is like, I feel like with Batman, you're getting, I don't know, 20% of the story. Like, you're sort of getting into it. This one, I feel like you're barely scratching the surface. You're at, like, 5%.

>> Rob: Totally. Totally. Yeah. Like, with Batman and the next issue, we'll talk about. Yeah, you very much get that and hear it, like, oh, it ends, like, before the bat. Like, the battle. You just get a little bit of battle.

>> Guido: The reveal is the flashback and, like, and the equivalent of the lasso in this Earth. And that's like, the reveal at the end and the final panel. So you don't even know what's going to happen with it. And we certainly don't know anything about these demons or anything about how often Wonder Woman is coming to different parts of Earth to save them. Like, we have no idea. do you think they don't know she's a woman at first?

>> Rob: So, going back to what we were saying before about, like, Batman and Superman, everyone knows their story and that we've revisited so many times. Do you think they are kind of taking a slower approach here? Because Wonder Woman's story is a little less known, so we're like, oh, let's spend a little bit more time on what this new changes. Her living with Cersei rather than, like, jump right into the action like we do with the other stories.

>> Guido: I don't think so. I think it probably has more to do with the story Kelly Thompson is telling, because clearly the mystery that's being set up here is what happened to the Amazons and what it will mean that she realizes she's an Amazon. were the rest of the Amazons killed? Are there more Amazons? I. That's, like, the mystery being set up here. So I think. I think it probably just has more to do with the story structure. I mean, if you think about it. And again, this was my second reading of it, so I got to, like, see all of this again. Kelly Thompson takes the things we know about Wonder Woman. She lives isolated from humanity.

>> Rob: Yep.

>> Guido: Check. She still does. It's not on paradise island and it's not with the Amazons, but she does live isolated from humanity. There's some element of magic and gods in her origin. She has these powers, that she will use when she comes into, you know, the land of man. she grows up with no men around her. True. She grows up with a bunch of demons and circe as her parent. So. So Kelly Thompson has taken again all those pieces of her origin, but just transformed them. And so I think it's.

>> Rob: Do you think since all those things you said are the same in this book, do you think it's not different enough? Like, are we getting enough of the news story?

>> Guido: Yeah, well, we don't know that yet, but I have total faith because the same is true for Batman. I think if you say, you know, you can check off all the boxes of Batman. Parent gets shot in front of him, lives in a crime ridden city, has an interest in bats and a fascination in bats. So like again, there's these key boxes you check. So I think it is different enough in that what the twist here is, and it fits with the dark side aspect of this universe is that Wonder Woman is always positioned as compassion and mercy. And we don't know that that's going to be true here. We know that she's not going to be a villain, fine. But she is not being driven, it seems, by a sense of love or justice. And those are core to Wonder Woman and those are not here. So that's what I think is interesting here. You put her in hell. She was raised by Circe, who is at best an immoral character, but typically a villainous character. So even though they have a love and Circe took care of her, Circe is not a good person in Greek mythology or in DC's mythology.

>> Rob: So I think some of my enjoyment of the, not that I didn't enjoy the issue, but I think some. I think I would have gotten more out of it if I had known more about Circe's background in other mythology and other mediums because I didn't get like that. She wasn't supposed to be like a nice character.

>> Guido: No, no, she's in hell by choice. She's a horrible witch. So yeah, I think that's what's going to be interesting here is what will Wonder Woman be without love or compassion? And again, she's going to be heroic, but just her design. She's got these red glowing eyes. The lasso or whatever the energy is that's lasso esque is all red and crackling and you know, she's protecting people from demons, but I don't know how much she's going to be motivated around justice for human beings. Even in some of the storytelling Circe's doing with her. And she's more interested in like the. There's something about that fairy trail and cutting down the tree where you're like okay. She's a little more brutal. Like there's a brutality here. The way she treats the little demon animals as they're coming around her. She's. She's a different Diana. So I think that'll pan out. And I'm curious to see, but I do think this one is, has the least amount of plot for whatever reason.

>> Rob: Well, let's, let's wrap up with our, our third, arguably the most famous of all superheroes of all time. Right. So we're asking the question, what if Superman has no family? This is absolute Superman number one from January 2025, the future. Woo. And it's called Last Dust of Krypton Part 1. Down in the dirt.

>> Guido: It is written by Jason Aaron, penciled and inked by Rafa Sandoval, colored by Ulysses Arreola, lettered by Becca Carey and edited by Ash Padilla and Chris Conroy. And so this is the third in the sequence of titles, the most recent of the number ones that came out. It is, it changes a good amount. Ah. Do you want to give your reaction or should we give a quick summary of the changes?

>> Rob: Let's give a quick summary. But for my money, this is the one that fulfills the brief the most in terms of. This is a alternate universe.

>> Guido: Yeah. We spend a lot of time on Krypton. And Krypton is extremely strictly a caste system around class. And it's the difference between the scientists and the laborers. And Cal, our Cal's family are the laborers. But they, and that's because they both spoke truth to power. They were both like really interested in environmental justice. And therefore the scientists shut them down. They both had potential careers as scientists and they were shut out and shut down. And so we get a lot in the world building around like their use of water. And they need water. And so there's kind of a fracking parallel going on. I mean, there's a lot in here about the Earth and climate change for sure. And of course, Cal's father discovers that the Earth is dying. We cut to present time because. And we'll get into that story in a minute. But the big reveal at the end, if you will, is that Cal grows up on Krypton. That's the real twist. What if twist here that, that they didn't want to, I think expose in the marketing. But Cal doesn't arrive to Earth. We don't actually know when yet, but we know that he is a preteen in the final pages on Krypton. And the Earth is not destroyed yet. And then we know that he's a, you know, 20 something year old on our Earth when he's in Brazil. So that's, I think, the biggest twist. Then, of course, in Brazil, there's this whole story with mining and the peacekeepers are trying to protect the interests of the Lazarus Corporation. And people are dying and suffering because of this. And he has a talking costume, which is a new aspect of his character. And then he, starts to kind of fight for justice and is, of course, in the most shocking reveal, arrested by an agent of Lazarus, Ms. Lois Lane.

>> Rob: Well, the other big difference too, that they have here is that he has to charge up his power, which I guess is comes from maybe not being born or not, being on planet Earth from since he was a kid. So he has to actually charge his power. The suit tells him a little Iron man esque, like, oh, you're running low on power here. Which is an interesting change because we think of Superman as like. And one of the difficulties I would imagine, in writing Superman is he can do anything. He has infinite power. So here they have kind of shackled him with, like, he has that infinite power, but only for a finite amount of time.

>> Guido: Well, and what's fun about that is that is true of our Superman. But the yellow sun constantly keeps him charged. Our son, being the yellow sun, constantly keeps charged. So I agree, Jason Aaron is just using it differently. And maybe it will be explained because he didn't come here as a child and didn't grow up here. But it is really interesting that he took, again, this is what all three of these writers were so brilliant with. He took something that's true about the Superman we know, and he used it really differently and it transformed the character.

>> Rob: Yeah, yeah. I thought it was also a really smart idea to kind of focus on the environmental aspects as well, because I know that's kind of core to the Krypton story, but really honing it in and focusing it so much on the Krypton portion of it and then really here on Earth as well with diamond mining. And I thought that was a good way of utilizing this character. Again, a character who can take on any guy with a gun. So why not focus on something that's even bigger than that, which would, in this case would be the environment. And it ties it so well into current events in our own real life world as well. And I think probably much more than either the other books did, where we're dealing with hell and we're dealing with this crazy gang. But here it very much feels like this could be a story that we're obviously minus, an alien with superpowers. But the rest of it very much feels like, oh, this is kind of of what we're dealing with here.

>> Guido: Well, it is. It is for sure a true story. Setting it in Brazil makes it even more true. And, in fact, I don't know if it's possible that this was, an influence, but Rafael Albuquerque was supposed to be the artist on this, but there were such horrible flooding happening in Brazil that he had to be pulled off the project, and Rafa Sandoval had to be brought in. he was just no longer able to even work. There were lots of fundraisers creators were doing for Rafael Albuquerque. it's. Yeah. So I don't know if they located this in Brazil after that happened or if somehow it was just very prescient of Jason Aaron to realize the environmental devastation that happens in lots of parts of the world, including Brazil. So. Yeah. Yeah. This, one. Go ahead.

>> Rob: I was gonna say I'll be curious, too, like, where this goes, because, like, we're not focusing too much. We don't have, like, a super villain in this, except there's a hint a future character who might be Brainiac. I don't know if. What?

>> Guido: Oh, it's definitely Brainiac. He has a green brain with wires coming out of it. So I think we can safely assume that's Brainiac being set up at the end. And, yeah, we don't know anything more about the Lazarus Corporation, though, of course, Lazarus being so tied to Ra's al Ghul. And we've got Lois Lane, who's at this point, cuffed Superman, So she's a bit of a villain.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: So, yeah, this one definitely, I think, was the denser and, like, didn't have a pacing that I loved. But again, all of these were part ones of five, so they created some parallel structures, obviously, in these titles. And so I'm suspending judgment until issues 5. I enjoyed them all, but this one felt like the harder one to get through for me.

>> Rob: Well, I think, because it also is the most different in so many ways. Like, we don't have all the parallels that we think of, you know, growing up in Smallvale. And even Lois Lane, who's like, we don't know anything much about her here, but she's not a reporter. Right. So there's so many differences here where I think those other two stories, as we've already talked about, you can latch on to some other things that we all know from their lore. And this is so Different. So maybe that's one of the reasons why this felt like a denser read. There was a lot more new information coming in.

>> Guido: Yeah. So before we move into the future of the Absolute Universe, I think. Do you think this fulfilled the mission of being an onboarding point for new readers? I suspect that was part of the mission. I think that's one of the other overlaps with the Ultimate Universe. The Ultimate Universe was, as we discussed on our episode a few episodes ago, Marvel's attempt at saying, all right, don't worry about all of this complicated canon that you have. Feel free to step in and see some characters you recognize being told in a different way. Do you think it potentially fulfills that?

>> Rob: Oh, I think very much so. I think they did a great job of kind of having you have that information, even kind of going back now it's not in an alternate universe, but even kind of going Back to the D.C. all In Special. I think they just do a good job of, like, here's the kind of the information that you need to know. And here I think it does set us on a path where someone could jump in. And I don't think you need to have. Obviously, we've already talked about you two out of three of these characters. You're going to know their backstory anyway. But even then, even if you didn't, for some reason know Superman's backstory, I think there's still enough here that, like, this is starting from chapter one.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: Well, let us wrap up by talking a little bit about the future. It's pondering possibilities. Will the future you describe be averted?

>> Guido: Diverted. Diverted.

>> Rob: So, Guido, what are we talking about for our pondering possibilities?

>> Guido: Well, let's talk about the future of the Absolute Universe. Absolute Batman Number two has come out, but we did not read it for this episode, so we're not going to discuss it. And obviously, these titles are meant to be ongoing and continue so we can talk about what we want from them. But we also already know Wave two, if you will, Absolute Flash has been announced. Absolute Green Lantern and Absolute Martian Manhunter. And there are creators known for two more books, but we don't know what they're working on. So we know there are at least five more Absolute titles on the way, which is amazing. That's a huge, huge line. So starting from these books, like, what do you want from these books? Are you gonna read them even? Probably not. But.

>> Rob: the Batman one, I'm the most intrigued, I think, just to follow, because I'm very curious to see what. How Martha plays a role. And I, as I said, I love the villains. I love the setup of the Joker. So that one was the one that intrigued me the most. And of these three that have been announced, I mean, none of them, like, jump off the page for me. But you're gonna read them all, I'm sure.

>> Guido: Oh, yeah. I am gonna read the whole universe. I think why this universe works for me so well, in the same way that the current iteration of the Ultimate Universe works is what I appreciate is that, look, I get the mission of trying to create a new line for people to come on board who don't want to deal with all of the backstory in the canon. I completely get that. And in respect that as a serialized ART for almost 100 years, you have to create points like that. But I think something both of these companies have learned, DC especially, which is notorious for its reboots and resets over the years, is that you also have to hold onto and honor the things that have come before. And what I like about the Absolute Universe is that there is this link to our universe, to our universe being our. The DC Earth Prime. There is this thing with Darkseid going on. Our heroes, the ones we know, know about the existence of this world. Do I need to see them cross over into it? No. Do I think that'll ever happen? Yeah. Probably one day, a few years from now, they will cross over the worlds, and that's fine. But I just like the fact that it. It is not totally tabula rasa. It is not totally just starting from scratch. And that is meaningful for someone like me who loves the mythology and the world building of it. So that has me all in. As I think we said on our Comic Con, episode. Episode. Their tagline is perfect because it's what I'm feeling about dc. I'm all in. Yeah. What would you want from some of the other titles? Is there an absolute you'd want announced, or is there just something even, like, tonally that you'd want to see go on here, knowing that you have potential?

>> Rob: Well, what about an Absolute title that focuses on a villain instead? Like, what about, like, Absolute Lex or something like that and just focus? I mean, we were seeing the other versions of some of these villains, like the Joker, but it would be interesting. Oh, let's. Let's find one that would have. And, like, Lex Luthor might be one of the most, like, interesting ones that you could do a different kind of story with. Like what? I don't know. Maybe he was loved and he also didn't have money or whatever the gonna be. But that would be kind of an interesting take also.

>> Guido: Yeah, I think that would be really fun. I agree. So maybe that's one of the two yet to be announced.

>> Rob: Yeah. And I think it will be interesting to see how these next ones are handled because Flash, Green Lantern, and I think especially Martian Manhunter, like, people are less familiar with their origin stories. I couldn't even tell you Martian Manhunter's origin story, actually. And especially when you're comparing Mars, Batman and Superman. Well, I got that part, but, other than that, I don't know anything else. So I'll be like, how do you change something that people are already less familiar with? Like, what does that mean?

>> Guido: Yeah, I agree. And what's interesting too is at, least I'd say two of these three characters, Flash and Martian Manhunter, are typically writing written a little lighter as titles.

>> Rob: Yes, true.

>> Guido: but the Absolute Universe, by its very design, as we've discussed, is, meant to be a bit darker. So I'll be curious how they play with that and how they balance that. Will any of the Absolute titles ever have humor in them or will they always be, quite dark? M. We shall see.

>> Rob: And these have been performing super well, right? Like, aren't these copies already super in demand?

>> Guido: Yes, the price of, I mean, it's one of those just wild things where absolute Batman number one was the highest of the three orders. I think it was printed at 300,000 or more, which is huge at this day and age. And still sold out. Immediately went into additional printings, and now that first issue is ridiculous on ebay. Came, out four weeks ago and it's certainly out there. And yet the demand is, is just so high. So, yeah, I have a feeling we're going to get more and more titles and I don't think they're going anywhere for a while, so we'll see what happens.

>> Rob: Well, we're not going anywhere for a while, so we'll be able to cover all the upcoming titles too.

>> Guido: Yes, eventually we will. But for now, that is a wrap. Dear Watchers, I have been the darker, slightly more, edgy Guido, and I.

>> Rob: Have been robbed from hell.

>> Guido: The reading list is in the show notes. Follow us online, especially on Blue sky at Deerwatchers.

>> Rob: Leave us a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts, and we'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.

>> Guido: In the meantime, keep pondering the possibilities.