Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

>> Rob: Welcome to Dear Watchers in Omniversal Comic Book Podcast, where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

>> Guido: We are traveling with you through the stories and the worlds that make up an omniverse of fictional realities we all love. And your watchers on this journey are me, Franken, Guido, and me, Dracula Rob.

>> Rob: That doesn't quite work, Robula Rob.

>> Guido: That kind of works. I mean, we like a fungus or something.

>> Rob: That's true. Well, before we get super scary, Geido, what's happening in our little section of the multiverse?

>> Guido: This is a, very contemporary episode. Again, that's two episodes. Oh, my gosh, we've been incredibly contemporary. And, you know, I have to give credit for that to DC Comics. They're just so good that we keep wanting to cover them. It was an accident. But as I was looking at our last episode, I was like, wait a second. That was also a very, current episode. This one might be the most current of all. And it's all because D.C. is just really Bat in a Thousand. And we're enjoying it, so it's fun to talk about.

>> Rob: It is.

>> Guido: And otherwise, I think Go find us on Blue Sky. We're really enjoying that platform almost as much as we're enjoying DC Comics. So go follow us at Deer Watchers on Blue Sky. And it's a, holiday season while this is out, so if you have any gift lists or things that you think we should buy, make sure to post on Blue sky about what you are gifting people from the comics worlds we've covered.

>> Rob: I think everyone's gifting Queer Mythology by Guido Away Sanchez this Christmas.

>> Guido: I hope so.

>> Rob: It's got pictures in it, so it's comics adjacent, as we said.

>> Guido: Sequential art in some way. Exactly.

>> Rob: True, true. Well, if you are joining us for the first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse, Origins of the story, exploring multiversity, and pondering possibilities. So thanks for coming along.

>> Guido: And remember, leave a five star review wherever you're listening, and you can find all of our episodes@deerwatchers.com or wherever you podcast.

>> Rob: And with that, dear Watchers, welcome to episode 148. And let's check out what's happening in the, Omniverse with our travels to today's alternate universe. Today we go down to the lab to see what's on the slab and answer the question, what if classic horror movie monster tropes like Frankenstein, Wolfman and Dracula were turned into a Nazi fighting group of soldiers?

>> Guido: Yeah, this is a weird one. And our episode there's not quite an alternate Earth. Usually this is the point where I tell you what Earth we're visiting. It's more of an origin story because there's a bunch of alternate Earths, and some that are were the prime Earths, but have since been rebooted. And it's a strange team with not too many appearances. So we'll talk more about exactly how we're covering them as we move through the segments. If you want more horror Earths, though, that we've covered, there are a lot, but we haven't quite covered this stuff before. We did cover Rocky Horror Picture show when Deadpool was making references to Rocky Horror Picture show, which was just, in your little question there, a bit of a reference. But anyway, this is a weird series of alternate Earths. We'll have to decide what we think is canonical, what we think is not canonical, what should be canonical as we move through our segments.

>> Rob: And I'm just realizing we haven't said what we are focusing on. I guess it's a podcast. Everyone can tell from the title of the podcast, but it's the.

>> Guido: Some people might listen without. They don't want spoilers.

>> Rob: That's true, that's true. They want to go in completely loud. Well, it is the Creature Commando, soon to be also a TV show. Longtime sporadic comic characters. So, Guido, what is your background with the Creature Commandos? And then I'll also throw in, what's your background with these kind of classic universal monsters in general?

>> Guido: I have no background with the Creature Commander at all. I barely even knew they existed. I knew GI Robot. He seems more popular or just like, persisted a bit more, or I just at least knew the design who ultimately joins the Creature Commandos team. And I knew that this concept existed, especially because of one of the reboot versions that we are going to cover in our second segment. But I have never read them, ever. I had no interest in them, which is funny because we're both interested in classic monsters. I am a big fan of the classic monsters, but that's not lifelong. I think when I was younger, I found them boring, which is weird because it wasn't just that they were black and white. I liked black and white movies. I liked Alfred Hitchcock movies and things like that. But for some reason, they, never clicked for me very much until I started to watch them again and again as an adult and start to understand more about the creators and what they were doing. And so I love classic monsters. Bride is my favorite, of course, just because she is amazing and we're Going to talk about her introduction to this universe in our third segment today because that is very exciting to me that they're finding a way to bring the bride into this world. So that's my background on, the creature commandos and the classic monsters that inspired them. What about you?

>> Rob: Well, I'll start with the classic monsters. And for them, I go way back. They must have been some of the very first movies I ever watched. I remember renting the original Dracula and the original Frankenstein from the video store. And I had to be like three.

>> Guido: Or four, so I don't know how three. Renting movies at the video store.

>> Rob: I wasn't going to the video store myself renting the movies. It wasn't like I rode on my little bicycle over there to get them. But I would go with my mom year old. Well, and I think the cool thing with those Universal movies is our parents grew up with them also in like the second or third generation because they were playing on TV all the time.

>> Guido: Being M from 1930s. Yeah. No one, no one grew up with them. No, no. I guess our grandparents gener.

>> Rob: I guess our grandparents. But our parents were of like that monster kid generation where they were playing on local tv, they would be re released in the movies. There was the monster mash, all that. So I think my parents introduced me to those classic monsters. And the nice thing is, even though they're black and white and they might move at a different pace, they're also all like 65 minutes long, which we don't even realize today. So they're great for like a little kid who is that young because you can really just like watch them all in an afternoon. And I remember buying the Invisible man and all these characters. But like you, I think I've actually grown in appreciation of them as I've grown and older and seen some of like the queer subtext that's in some of the movies and things like that. As for the creature commandos, I. I don't even know if I knew who they were. I think when I first heard the name when the TV show was being announced, I kind of assumed they were all like lovable animals that were also now anthropomorphized. Like I thought it would be like it's gonna be a cat, but he's also like an. An army soldier. Like that's kind of what I thought in my head.

>> Guido: The Creature Grandson's Wii 3.

>> Rob: I don't even know what that is.

>> Guido: But sure, you read that. I thought you read W3 where it's like little Cyborg pet become an army of soldiers.

>> Rob: Exactly. That is what I had in my head. That they were all going to be like different animals but wearing like little military hats and stuff like that. I had no idea, actually. I don't think it was until literally New York Comic Con, like a month ago that we went and there was a Creature Commandos thing because the TV show was coming out and we went through and you pointed out it's like, oh, it's the Bride. And it's like the bride creature coming. I had no idea that they were classic monsters. Like, so I'm so new to this. It's been literally like 30 days.

>> Guido: But let's dig in. That's a good point.

>> Rob: Yeah, let's go back to the beginning, its origins of the story. Right now on this very show, you're gonna get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago and today's Weird War Tales begins, appropriately enough in Weird war tales number 93. This is from November 1980 and the story is called the Creature Commandos.

>> Guido: And of course that's an anthology book that is also a tongue twister. So it is Weird War talail. Okay, I goteah we wordead like that. You can't even say it twice, I don't think without messing it up. It's written by JM M. Dam Maias pencilled by Pat Broderick in by John Salo colored by Adrian Roy lettered by Ben Oda edited by Len Win JM de Maiaus was a contributor to DC's horror books like House of Mystery all big in this Bronze Age era. Weird War Tales being of a piece with those books. Davettus later jumped to Marvel and did the defenders in Captain America and Marvel team up and was also a writer for the 1980s Twilight Zone TV show. Pat Broderick the artist worked on a number of titles across DC and Marvel including Captain Marvel, Swamp Thing, JLA Detective Comics and co created Tim Drake with Mar Wolfman in this. So we really focused in on the origin story here. WOR War Tales number 93. I can't even say it once, but they have some installments occurring over the course of the next. I guess it's like two years and maybe 20 or fewer stories. And so we skimmed a whole bunch of them. And later in these Weird War Tales Creature Commando stories, Robert Ker takes over from Demetus. He co created Sergeant Rock and Barry Allen Flash and was really famous for a run on Wonder Woman for a long time. And the Artist was taken. The art was taken over by Fred Carillo, who also did a lot of the DC Horror & Mystery titles, plus did some work on Masters of the Universe. So if someone hasn't read Weird War Tales and the Origin of Creature Commandos, what do they need to know?

>> Rob: Okay, so we're in the World War II era, we're combating the Nazis, and Lieutenant Matthew Shreve is working on Project M. what does M stand for? Of course it stands for monster. So he has gotten a bunch of recruits. It's a little like Suicide Squad, of course, which'we'll talk about with James Gunn. A lot of people who were kind of against their will, they kind of are forced into this. And he is basically transforming these soldiers into monsters. So we've got Warren Griffith, who is kind of a podunk private there, who is being transformed into a werewolf, but he can't control when he turns into a werewolf. And of course he turns back into a human at in inappropriate times. We've got Elliot Lucky Taylor, who stepped on a landmine, but they saved his body and he's now like a Frankenstein monster character who can't speak. And we have the amazingly named Vincent Velcro, who was going.

>> Guido: Later they recon his name to Velccoro, I think I know. But also Velcro is a brand, so that's probably why they add the second O. But anyway, go on.

>> Rob: Well, he was going to be put in the military gulag for assaulting a superior officer. So he gets injected with new Mexican vampire bat blood and is turned into basically a vampire. So he can be out in the sun, but he can turn into a bat. And he needs human blood to survive. So that's our, like, original team. And later they're joined by Jake, which is the robot you mentioned.

>> Guido: So he's GI Robot.

>> Rob: GI Robot. So he's basically a robot dressed as a soldier and he's got fancy guns and all that. And then our token female character, which is Dr. Mna Rhodes, who transforms into like basically a Medusa character, but she doesn't turn people into stone. She's just got snake for hair. That's it. So she's like Dr. Medusa. And that's our core team with KE of SHVE kind of leading them. Yeah.

>> Guido: And so the setup and the origin and then you just sort of follow them on their merry way through misadventures is really neat because what Shrive says in this first issue is we researched the subconscious archetypes, the symbols of fright and horror that all men seem to share regardless of social and cultural conditions. And then we set about scientifically recreating them. And that was the birth of Project M for monster. So it's a cool idea. This idea of which we've seen in a lot of I think comic book World War II retellings and retcons, like how could supernatural or psychological warfare have been brought to like a comic book place? And I think this is a really fun way of doing that.

>> Rob: Mmm. And I guess we're in our. We have to almost put ourselves into the comic in that it's also the 1940s. Right. Because some of these characters might not be so scary to an 80s audience, but from like a 40s audience, like these original movies that a lot of these characters would have like been popularized from would have only been 10 years old or less. So like I guess a 1940s audience in World War II would have been more frightened of like a Frankenstein monster than maybe like an 80s audience would have been.

>> Guido: Well the movies I think are also less relevant here. If you think about horror archetypes, these are probably, if you're looking at Wolfman, Frankenstein, Dracula, these are like the three protodo monsters in horror. So I like that again what Trerivea is saying, like different cultures certainly have vampire stories or have Frankenstein zombie like stories and have like wolf, animal, person, human stories. So I like how there are these broad archetypes. So it disconnects it from the movies. They certainly didn't license these properties from the movies or anything. There's no likeness obviously they're being influenced, I'm sure like you're saying, by the movies. But I like that it lives almost one level above that in there conception. Medusa then is a little random throw in. I think they probably, I guess they couldn't do the Bride because they didn't license the universal Bride.

>> Rob: look is very Yeah, I guess otherwise she would have just been like oh I guess a scary looking woman if you couldn't do the bride hair. Which is what we all know.

>> Guido: So I. That they had to think like okay, who is a proto horror female. And Medusa from Greek myths is a pretty good one in terms of being a monster. There's also some references in some of the issues we readide to Cersei and some of the other like sort of witch prototypes, but none of them ever joined the team. So guess Medusa makes sense. And then GI Robot is just a weird warte mashup that really has no place being on the creature Commandos. But sure, why not?

>> Rob: Well, he had his own stories in Weird War Tales as well, so I guess they figured, okay, like, let's just put these two.

>> Guido: Yeah, let's combine our together.

>> Rob: And there were so many things it was making me think too. Like, actually, it was seven years after this that the movie Monster Squad came out, which, of course, they're not battling Nazis in that. But it is like that basic idea of, like, let's put together all these classic monsters. And then even us growing up there was like, Transylvania High. I think it was horror high. Like, there was always this idea of, like, let's put all the monsters together and see, like, how they work them in different settings. Yeah. This must be of the first, like, times that this, that was done, though.

>> Guido: I don't know. the fighting war also had been done at this point. Like, so obviously for those who aren't thinking about it, the name itself is clearly a riff on Nick Fury's Howling Commandos, who are all human, but just the name itself is there. But earlier than this, in Marvel Comics, Frankenstein is like fighting in World War II. They actually, put Frankenstein in some of the Bronze Age horror as, like, a weird soldier. And then many years after this, they create Nick Fury's Howling Commandos as like a little spin off, almost Elseworld's Tale, where they become, like, werewolf. And they are other creatures clearly inspired by the creature commandos. But there's just a lot of. You're right, there's a lot of, like, mashups. But I don't think this is the original time that this kind of thing is being done.

>> Rob: Yeah, I guess you've got like, Abbott Costello meet Frankenstein and all those things. Like, they were. As soon as they were all created, it was like, let's bring these characters together.

>> Guido: Yeah. And in comics, they're figuring out, like, what to do with these. Of course, the code has loosened in in the 70s at this point to allow for the Bronze Age horror wave that was not allowed from the 50s onward. So I think that's why a lot of people are playing with these characters and trying to figure out what to do. And it's where we get the creation of some of the most famous horror comic book characters as well. So we skimmed their 18 or 19 stories in weird War Tales. We did not absorb them all. But they go on and fight dinosaurs. They have some weird adventures, but they are always in 1940s. They'always other than when they're obviously fighting dinosaurs, but they are not brought to the present time at any point. Probably in part because the rules of this anthology book, I'm assuming, keep the stories placed in war times. So I guess that's why. But any overall impressions as we skimmed through their original appearances?

>> Rob: Well, you mentioned the loosening of the comics code, and I think one of the things that stood out to me here is just how violent and kind of disturbed some of these books are. Especially when you probably compare it to superhero books that are coming out around the same time. My gosh, there are just people, innocent people just being gunned down all the time. And of course, like, yes, some of the people that are being killed are Nazis, but not only them by vampires. So I think just a lot of that and a lot of that comes through. I think the really striking art of first Pat Broderickk and later Frank Ko.

>> Guido: Where very Bronze Age horror art.

>> Rob: Yeah. H. There'some issues in there that were a little more plain and by other artists. And when those other artists did it, it lost a lot of the oomph when, like, when you can tell it's these artists that are doing that super detail, almost kind of Bernie Wrightson kind of Bronze Age horror look. It really, like, jumps off the page kind of. What did you think of, like, the art and also, I guess, the. The violent nature of these books?

>> Guido: I mean, I didn't notice the violence in the same way you did. I don't know why. I guess just because it's a war book, I sort of felt it was part and parcel. And then the art I loved, because I love this style of art. I love the 70s Bronze Age horror. Heavy lines, lots of shadows. I like that look. But there're still bright colors. I mean, we've read a digitally remastered edition of this, but even in its original format, there's bright comic bookie colors with all these dark, heavy lines. So I like that style a lot.

>> Rob: Well, the. The one story that I think stood out to me the most was maybe like their fourth or fifth appearance. And what's happening is the Nazis are experiments experimen on children. And it's got kind of a village of the day.

>> Guido: It's called the Children's Crusade, by the way, which is very cool and a nice Avengers Wanda Maximoff reference.

>> Rob: Yeah. So they're experimenting on the kids. They're giving them superhuman strength. And right away, one of the kids, like, just kills his mother, like, instantly. And then later, like during the big battle in everything, like Lieutenant Shve just shoots one of these children, which, yes, they're like, campaigning against them, but, like, there's no, like, oh, we're gonna knock you on your head and then cure you. He just kills one of the kids, and then one of the, children is battling with Lucky, and it makes him realize, like, oh, he's been taken over. So then all the kids kill the Nazis. But then after they kill the Nazis again, you would think in another book, okay, this is the time when they're all going to be deprogrammed. We're good. But no, because of the experiments, suddenly their bodies start changing into, like, a Grundel fly. Like, very Cronenberg. Like, their whole bodies exc. Explode into, like, this big mass. And then they just kind of, like, deflate into just, like, nothing but skin. And then the creature commandos just leave. So, like, all these young kids are just been, like, killed, in this book. And it's like, oh, my gosh, this is so, like, you wouldn't. I'm sure you would not see that in another book around this time.

>> Guido: No. And certainly not years earlier in the 70s even. So, yeah, you can see they're leaning into the loosening of the code here.

>> Rob: And a lot of it, too, is, like, we have this ensemble here. But I was also really struck by, like, Shreve, who's kind of our de facto leader, and he just, like, makes fun of the creature commandos, like, all the time. Like, he's just constantly calling them freaks and, like, calling them names and, like, speaking down to them. It's like, not like the kind of the Rick Flag Suicide Squad. It's like, worse than that. I feel like it's like he's really just, like, talking down to them, like, the entire time, which I just thought again, it's like, wow, this is, like, this is the quote unquote normal character, and he's like, the worst one in terms of personality.

>> Guido: Yeah. So, algh. Are you a fan? Before we move away from their origin issues, like, reading this, Are you a fan? Would you have wanted more?

>> Rob: I'm a fan in how weird and bizarre it gets. I think, like, they're great to read as a look into a very certain kind of comic writing and art from a specific time. I don't know if I would want to, like, just read them as an ongoing thing. But if you want to see, like, something that's, like, pretty depraved for comics and pretty bizarre, like, then definitely, like, pick up a, read a couple of issues and, like, get into it that way. What about you?

>> Guido: Editorial must have agreed with you because they have no other appearances for decades. So this is about it. So I like the concept. The stories here don't offer much, but I like the concept and I want to see what they do with it. And let's move into our next segment and find out if they do anything with it.

>> Rob: Okay, it's time to explore some multiversity.

>> Guido: I am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question, what if?

>> Rob: And we are asking the question, what if classic horror movie monster tropes like Frankenstein and Dracula were turned into a Nazi fighting group of soldiers?

>> Guido: Yeah. So we're gonna discuss pretty much all of their other appearances, because most of them are on alternate Earths or no longer existing Earths. And so what's so unusual here is these characters have a couple dozen appearances total. And I'm remembering the only other time we discuss this was actually on a pretty recent episode with Agatha Harkness. This idea of, like, adapting this thing, this character, this world, part of the world that has very little source material. And this is definitely another example of that. And we'll talk more about that adaptation and the TV show in the third segment. But after that Weird War Tales run of stories, the concept is pretty much dead for over 20 years. And it's very unusual. And so then we get a few appearances in the DC Prime Earth looking to, you get a sense they're almost looking to bring them back and play with them. And then, of course, you get the New 52. So you kill the entire DC universe. And they are a core part of the New 52 reboot. But it. That title is cancelld, and it really doesn't go anywhere in the rest of the universe. Of course, the New 52 Earth gets destroyed and rolled into what is currently our Prime Earth. And we have, the current run clearly set up to be a tie in to the TV show, but also on in a slightly different world. So let's talk about these all together and go through the issues that we looked at and then talk through this whole segment of multiversity and Creature Commandos.

>> Rob: So we've got Action Comics 872 from February 2009.

>> Guido: So that's from Jeff Johns and Peteoods. The Creature Commandos are brought back via Brainiac, who has had them captive, had kidnapped them, and now they're freed. So reintroduction to them into the DC universe.

>> Rob: Next up, Justice League generation lost number 16 from February 2011.

>> Guido: So this is like the post Infinite Crisis dealing with Max Lord and all these other characters that were introduced by Jud Wininick and Fernando Dagnino. The Creature Commandos are back here now they're fighting the JLI and some confusion. And we find out Max Lorde is actually pretending to be Jake, pretending to be GI Robot. Of course, that's about to get cut off because it's later this year that the world ends.

>> Rob: Next up, Frankenstein, agent of in Elysa Edwards voice shade number one. The New 52 reboot from November 2011.

>> Guido: Yeah, so at this point, months after the Generation Lost appearances, we get the total reboot of the DC universe. This is one of the number one titles. New 52, Jeff Lemire and Alberto Ponticelli. So in this, Frankenstein works for Shade, which is the Superhuman Advanced Defense Executive, and the Creature Commandos show up, albeit in different forms and with a few new characters from issue number one. Creature Commandos show up. Though this title gets cancelld after issue number 16, executive.

>> Rob: They really just couldn't come up with another word there. They really wanted that Shade. They had to throw that. That in.

>> Guido: Finally, the last thing we read for this segment.

>> Rob: Yes. DC Horror presents Creature Commandos number one from December 2024. It's the first of six issues. Issue number three is on its way just after this episode is out.

>> Guido: Yes, and this is by horror actor, writer, creator David Das Malian and Jesus Heras. It probably is an alternate Earth. It's not completely clear. The DC Horror Presents MC people think it is it, but they didn't call it Black Label. And there's. There are some characters we meet zetanaa in issue 2, but it doesn't really tie into continuity, so it's unclear. The team is reformed with some variation. Different origin, different way of pulling them together. So we have here three, Action Comics and Justice League Generation Lost are somewhat linked, I'd say. We have your three different versions of an attempt to bring these teams back, and none of them stick. Well, we don't know if the David Das Mal and Will stick, but none of them, none of the previous ones stick. Where do you want to start? I guess let's start with, the earliest ones. So this attempt to sort of pull them back in via Brainiac and have them in the universe, for some reason, it never amounts to anything. But did you enjoy? Did you enjoy.

>> Rob: Well, that one I think I like y. I like the most because it literally is kind of a Captain America. I'm frozen in time. I'm now released into like this new world. So I like that the most where it was very much like, okay, we're going to take those original characters and we're going to kind of re Release them now into, like, the current DC universe. So it wasn't really going back and, like, reinventing the wheel, like, I think you see in a lot of these other ones, it was like, okay, we've got a good concept. Let's just put these characters back into this world.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. but it. I just wish it stuck, but it didn't, for whatever reason. And I should say I should have included this in my history, but I. I didn't prior to this. In the year 2000, there's a creature Commandos's title, but it takes place in an alternate Earth, in an alternate future. The concept is there, but it's totally different characters. With a few exceptions, it has no relationship to canon. So I ignored it and left it out. But I should add that that was like, one sort of mysterious thing. And what made me think of it as in these titles, they actually call some. They renamed something after the writer of that series, Tim Truman, I, think as an honor to him, and the fact that he, I guess, in 2000 had tried to relaunch this, but again, it's an alternate Earth, an alternate future, and doesn't have much of the DNA here, so let's move into the next major reboot. So we both enjoyed the attempt to bring them into DC canon. It fails, goes nowhere. Then we get Frankenstein, Agent of shade. So new 52, starting from scratch in this new world. What'd you think?

>> Rob: Well, it's odd that they focused, I mean, on the Frankenstein character, because in the original comics that we read, Frankenstein doesn't really even speak. He's kind of just.

>> Guido: No, he doesn't speak at all. It's in the plot that he. They didn't give him vocal cords when they reassembled his body.

>> Rob: And from, like, Abbot and Costello Meet Frankenstein to. To Monster Squad as well, like the Frankenstein monsters, I always there as just kind of like the one that has kind of a conscience, and he doesn't. He doesn't ever speak. He's kind of always, like, a little bit more in the background. So it was an interesting choice to, like, put him at the forefront here, because it's not a character that I usually think of as being like, oh, you know, who's the leader of the Monster group? Oh, it' that's the Frankenstein monster.

>> Guido: Well, some of this. And I, again, I left this out because it really doesn't have anything to do with Creature Commandos. But I think the reason that they used him as the vehicle is because in 2006, there's a Grant Morrison series called Seven Soldiers Frankenstein that essentially relaunches this version of Frankenstein. Now of course that's in the D.C. new Earth, so it, it pre. It doesn't exist in the new 52. But I think that's part of why Frankenstein like had a little more popularity. And there are like appear things about his appearance that look a bit like the Grant Morrison reboot of this character. So I think that's why they focused on Frankenstein in the new 52 version, because they had this slightly rebooted version already in place from the Seven Soldiers Grant Morrison. And then he actually makes an appearance in the Flashpoint world.

>> Rob: I wonder if you looks at when all of these reboots and the original and now the upcoming one came out and if you looked in like broader culture, if these monster characters ever like, came back. Like, I don't know if around the time that these were being launched is when you had like the Van Helsing movie or even like the League of Gentlemen leaving Extraordinary Gentleman movie or something like that, and then going back to the 80s with like fright Night and then Monster Squad. Now you have like the new, like the new Wolfman coming out, a new Bride movie coming out. I wonder if you have like classic, I wonder if you have waves of these classic monsters, like resurging in popularity. And I wonder if there's a connection between like when the Creature Commandos try to get rebooted to like broader culture though.

>> Guido: it feels like there's always a resurgence, a wave of these classic monsters going on, but not Creature Commandos so.

>> Rob: Well, I guess it also like.

>> Guido: But I think there's just so many more attempts. You know, we've seen Universal monsters were licensed like crazy in the 90s and there were so many ads with them and stuff like that. But there wasn't a Creature Commandos's attempt in the 90s and then in the 2000s. Y.

>> Rob: That's true.

>> Guido: I don't know, but I think in.

>> Rob: General, like, it's interesting like you'saying why aren't the Creature Commandos reboot sticking? But in general, I think like, there's a difficulty with some of these characters in general sticking. Like when we had like Universal trying to relaunch like the Mummy series and like nobody, nobody wanted that and like.

>> Guido: I don't know, wonder if be a quality control issue. And I actually say that's true with Creature Commandos. I mean I read through some of that 2000 series and more power to the people that love it. But it is so weird. And I Don't like it and it didn't. It doesn't fit well, so. And I think that's probably the same with the Tom Cruise mummy. Having not seen it, but having read enough about it, I think there's a quality control issue with some of these reboots. I don't know why that is. I don't know. I don't know. It's an interesting question. Why it.

>> Rob: Yeah. I don't know. Do people think they can just, like, coast on the characters themselves? Or maybe the people are too close to the characters. They love them so much that they're forgetting.

>> Guido: I don't think they love, though. I think that's part of the issue is you have. And I think this is true with some of these creature commandos, like, even the retooled versions, which I'm not a huge fan of. An agent of Shade, I'm a little more into in the The David Das Malkian. And he's someone who I'm sure understands the essence of these characters and is a fan of them, since he's such a wild horror fan in all sorts of ways. But I think that's probably part of the issue, is people. People might like the characters, but I don't think they, like, really try to dig into what is at the core of these characters.

>> Rob: Yes.

>> Guido: And I think that's few and far between.

>> Rob: One thing I liked about the David Desashiian into is that they brought back the Shiv character because he was missing from a lot of those middle ones. And I think it benefits from having, like, the human and also a human who's, like, quite like a jerk, which we also get in this new one as well. And I think it's good to have, like, these monster characters play off of this human character and also, like, who is the true monster. That kind of idea as well. So I think it benefits from having that character as kind of a, a tent pole at which, like, these other characters can kind of revolve around. So I think they were very smart in that aspect.

>> Guido: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think there's some good choices in this series. I think what's weird is it feels like a hybrid of so many of the things that came before. Like, it has more of, like, the original series doesn't have so much of, like, the science aspect. The new 52 version does have that science Shade, you know, slash shield aspect. And this tries to pull that in. And I'm not such a huge fan of that. So I'm not loving this series. I like Zetanaa appearing in the second issue. You didn't read the second issue for this, but it's, it's fun. I want it to be a part of the world and it's not. They refer to the Justice League, but I don't think it's a part of the canonical Prime DC universe. I think it's, a offshoot.

>> Rob: So I think a big thing for all of these that was lacking for me, including this new one, unfortunately, is I'm not a huge fan of a lot. Most of the art that was done throughout this one. This one is very, kind of like, not very detailed art. In some of the other ones be get very, like, very detailed art, but not of the kind of style I like. And if you go back to that original 1980s run from all of its, like I said, when the art is so much of what propels the story and makes it good and you get that like, creepy House of Mystery look. So part of me loves like, want, let's take what David Des Smsh is doing with these characters, but put in that, like, classic Bronze Age horror mystery look on top of it. I think that's what's needed to really sell this.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, I agree. So, before we move into the most current iteration of this, I mean, it sounds like we're all. We're both sort of lukewarm on any of these comic book versions. And we've speculated a little bit about why a comic book version doesn't work. But here's what I'm wondering. Like, can they coexist in just the core DC universe? Can there be a Justice League and a creature of commandos?

>> Rob: Because, yeah, totally.

>> Guido: I mean, no one has done that. And I don't know why there was those attempts in 2009 and 2011, but.

>> Rob: I liked in that first one in the, in action comics where they're, they're awakened and they're awakened by Superman and they're like, wait're you're an alien? Like, I like that idea. Like that they're monsters and yet they're weirded out that like, they're talking to an alien. So I think like, there totally can be, them all kind of coexisting and then maybe playing off that. And I love for them to like, interact, which I think maybe we'll get into the new series, like some of, like, the classic horror character horror, adjacent characters in like, the Batman universe, which has a lot of like, horror. There's a man bat, right? Like, and like, I think they then worked on like that, Velcro gets like man bats like serum. And that's what. So they were trying to put them together. So I totally think, like, we can see those characters all interact.

>> Guido: Yeah. All right, well, let's go to the latest version.

>> Rob: Yes. Let's wrap up with our pondering possibilities.

>> Guido: Wrap up. Like the mummy future you describe be avertederttedertd.

>> Rob: There was that random mummy character introduced later because, like that they're like, he's the mysterious one. Like, he's not a science experiment. Like he's a real mummy. But I was like, I eyptian no idea who this character is. I guess you need a mummy if you're go goingna have the wolfman and Dracula. Like, you also have to have a. You also have to have a mummy. But Guido, what are we talking about for our pondering possibilities?

>> Guido: Well, this is where this is such a current episode for you and I, because this episode of our podcast is releasing the same week as the debut of the Creature Commandos's series. So we have not seen the series because it has not come out yet when we're recording this. But this, this week the first two episodes debut, and they are now. They're coming weekly until January. Now there are seven episodes, all written by James Gunn. And what's interesting is, in addition to the series being R rated, this is the official formal launch of the new DCU under James Gunn. This is the first part of the first chapter of his world which he has titled Gods and Monsters. So this which is of launch of it is a Frankensenste, comes from Frankenstein. Yes. So we watched the trailer, which we don't usually do, but we watched the trailer and want to talk a little bit about what we hope for, what we think this is doing, why it's the launch of his new universe, etcetera, etcetera. So let's start with just impressions. We watched the trailer. What do d you think?

>> Rob: I was a little mixed on the trailer, I have to say. I mean, it's hard to tell because it's a trailer, but I. It's interesting because it's a different makeup of the group than any of the other m iterations that we discussed here on the podcast. So there's some big ones like Vincent Velcro. The vampire character is not there. Like, so that's like a pretty, I.

>> Guido: M assuming will him, but he's not.

>> Rob: Yeah, the werewolf is gone. Like we have some other ones.

>> Guido: It's actually wel instead of the werewolf.

>> Rob: Yes, we. So it's actually Moved a bit. Now maybe this was for legal reasons with Universal, I don't know. But there's. So they've moved away from like the classic Universal kind of monster concepts because like now it's like there's like, you know, a guy who's like more like Dr. Manhattan almost in a way. Like, so they've moved away from those and kind of embrace like new characters.

>> Guido: Yeah, it is basically Suicide Squad, but with some non human characters I think is what's. What's happening here. The. That's what's so interesting to me about this being the start of this world. Because I mean, James Gunn has done a lot of press recently with the, with the question of like where Peacemaker fits into the world. Does it fit into the world or not? This is almost sort of seen as a sequel in some ways because it is Viola Davis as Amanda Waller. And. But, but the point here is she can no longer use humans. So we can assume some of like Peacemaker and the Suicide Squad happened in this version of the universe, but not all it necessarily happens since this is the official start. So it's got to be interesting to see what it does. I mean, I, don't think it's gonna do a lot to break the world open. It's an animated R rated show. Like I don't think this is gonna solve the riddle of what is the new DCU and what is the first chapter? Gods and monsters.

>> Rob: I've also seen a lot of press around that. It's like, ohah. but wait, isn't Harley Quinn also an animated R rated DC show? Like so like they were already doing that. It's like, yes, not just like, like this, but it's like y. Yeah, no, no, I get that.

>> Guido: But it's like difference is this is, this is a, this is the sacred timeline, if you will. This is prime cannon. This is the thing like everyone is supposed to watch or consume in order to follow the thread of the Prime Cannon. And it's an R rated cartoon.

>> Rob: So out also here from the Peacemaker TV show and the, and the Suicide Squad. It's so, it's so Suicide Squad. It's interesting to me. I, You mean, we talked about that. There's a lot of Suicide Squad DNA even in the creature commandos to kind of begin with. But it's very interesting like that he. His very first foray into D.C. was with the Suicide Squad and now his like first foray as like the leader of DC is basically Suicide Squad redux. I don't know if he wanted to, like, pay tribute or go back to his roots or something like that.

>> Guido: Of course, it's also also similar to Guardians of the Galaxy, so clearlyue some of these are just themes and structures that appeal to James Gunn. For whatever reason, he likes teams of oddball characters coming together. He likes things being a little more adult. Of course, Guardians infamously has Star Lord giving the finger blurred out in the trailer, which is like one of the earlier, even before they would allow a little bit of cursing examples in Disney. So he, I guess, likes something about that. And this is remarkably similar to that. I think it's the animated part that's interesting to me. I don't think. I don't think we'll see like, an animated MCU entry. I know what if is kind of technically part of the mcu, but let's move that aside. I think it's interesting to me that you're going toa have animated characters coexisting with live action characters. Will David harbor as whoever he's playing? Probably a Frank. He's the Frankenstein monster, but yeah, Will David Harbor Yete. We don't meet that in the trailer, so.

>> Rob: Okay, okay. I looked at.

>> Guido: Will he show up on screen at some point? Right. Like, Will. Will Frank Grillo, Rick Flag. I mean, we've already seen him. or he's. No, he's the. He's a relative, actually. Right.

>> Rob: He's Rick Flag senior. So he is the father of Joel Kinnneman character. Yeah.

>> Guido: Who's recn. So will we see him show up? Will we see. I mean, I don't think we'll see Alan Tudk. He's always a voice. But will we see Endira Varma who's playing the bride? Like, we've seen Viola Davis, so it's just interesting to me that there's gonna be this blend of live action and animation. How seamless is that go. Goingna be moving forward? I don't know.

>> Rob: And actually on that note too, Alan Tudekk is also going to be voicing Clayface on this series. He also voices the Clayface on Harley Quinn as well. So, like, will those two Clayfacess be totally different? Is it going to be the same Clayface? Like, maybe just like, drawn differently, but the same personality, which is obviously very wacky and, like, lovable on Harley Quinn.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: So I. I guess that will also say, like, how much the Harley Quinn show is, like, totally separate, or is it kind of gonna be a part of this world in some way?

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah. I don't know the answer to that question, but it's. It's gon toa be interesting. And then I think. I think from this show we go into the Superman movie. So I think those are our first.

>> Rob: I mean, gu. Totally different.

>> Guido: Which. It's just. It's so interesting. And again, it's not that I think that this series is going to, be so much a part of the larger narrative, but it's just interesting that. That, you know, like, he could have waited until the Superman movie and then released this series. So, like, why is totally series coming out now again? I think it's gonna stand alone pretty much, but I think it's gonna do something to help us understand a little bit more about what we can come to expect in Superman and in the next Peacemaker and in the Green Lantern TV show and all the things coming down the pike.

>> Rob: Well, I mean, I'm still excited to. To watch it because I do love. I do love his writing. I love the Peacemaker show. And while it's, of course he's not involved in, I do love the Harley Quinn show as well. So I think if they're able to put all those things together into one thing, I will definitely enjoy it. I'm just coming at it with a little bit of skepticism based on the past biography of Creature Commandos and also just like, by watching the trailer. But, you know, who knows? Trailers are made to be deceiving.

>> Guido: Yes. Well, when people are listening to this episode, we'll be watching the new episodes of, the Creature Commandos. So we'll already have the answer to that question. Our we already know we can follow.

>> Rob: Up on a future episode and say, what are our thoughts on the animated series then?

>> Guido: Well, we'll also post our thoughts online. So, to follow us online. And for now, dear watchers, that is a wrap. Thank you for listening. I have been franken guidog GR I.

>> Rob: Have been robbe Jackie Rob Jackie y.

>> Guido: The reading list is in the show.

>> Rob: Notes and you can leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.

>> Guido: Keep pondering your possibilities.