Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

>> Rob: Before we begin, let's insert some quippy, fourth wall breaking innuendo full of nineties references. Okay, we're done. So now, welcome to Dear Watchers, an omniversal comic book podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

>> Guido: We are traveling with you through the stories and the worlds that make up an omniverse, of fictional realities we all love. And your watchers on this journey are. Me, Guido pool. That was low hanging fruit, but.

>> Rob: And me, Rob. You might remember me from my short lived early bots franchise that was unfortunately canceled way before its time. And, oh, it is a multiversal clash, an incursion, because here we have Elliot, of Elliot Comic arts.

>> Elliot: Hello. it's me, making a surprise cameo that no one guessed.

>> Rob: Now, before we begin our trip, welcome back. Yes, welcome back.

>> Elliot: Thank you. It's fun to be here.

>> Guido: It's been a while, M. And Guido.

>> Rob: What'S new in our little section of the multiverse? We're broadcasting right from hall h, right?

>> Guido: No, we're not, but we'll warn you of spoilers. Don't worry. We might refer to what was announced at San Diego Comic Con in Hall H. We're recording just after it. But we will warn of spoilers. Don't worry. There will be a lot of them ultimately, but we'll give you fair warning. And when the three of us are next together, it's going to be New York Comic Con in October. So I expect we'll have an episode in October when you're back. Look at that.

>> Elliot: it's the most wonderful time of the year.

>> Guido: That it is.

>> Rob: And if you're joining us for the first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse. Origins of the story, exploring multiversity, and pondering possibility. So thank you for coming along, and.

>> Guido: Remember to leave us a five star view, wherever you're listening. And you can find us at, dear watchers online.

>> Rob: And with that, welcome to episode 139. And let's check out what's happening in the omniverse with our travels to today's alternate universe. And today, we are asking the question, what if Deadpool redacted the multiverse? So let's jump on in. Right now on this very show, you're gonna get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago. This is origins of the story. So, Guido, what origins should we be discussing?

>> Guido: Well, we're gonna focus in on Deadpool, the Fox universe, and what we thought before we saw Deadpool and Wolverine. So no spoilers. Other than for any movie that came out prior to Deadpool and Wolverine. So let's start with our backgrounds.

>> Elliot: So I, will try to make this brief, because the background for the Fox universe, is pretty convoluted. But it started, really with a bang in 2000 with the, first X Men, directed by Bryan, singer, and starring Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart, bringing us a really great X Men movie in x two. And then it meandered for a long time. There were some.

>> Guido: There's like the soft reboot era.

>> Elliot: Yeah, there was X Men. And, I mean, Hugh Jackman was really the star. So they origins Wolverine.

>> Guido: Did you see all of them in theaters?

>> Elliot: I. Oh, that is a good question. I must have, because it was the era pre kids when I was seeing everything except for the later ones. I don't think I saw Dark Phoenix in the theater.

>> Guido: How about the Deadpools?

>> Elliot: I did not see deadpools in theater. I remember, though, I bought Deadpool. I usually, you know, buy the movies. I bought Deadpool without seeing it in the theater. I just knew that I wanted to own it. And so, yeah, so there's a kind of a famous story that, you know, Ryan Reynolds played Deadpool in Origins Wolverine, pretty famously.

>> Guido: Not a great, not at all comic faithful, or even good.

>> Elliot: And then the kind of mythology around Deadpool was that he. They kind of filmed a scene from it, and it kind of leaked online. And it was one of the. Maybe a few examples when fans rallied around this clip, I think leaked, maybe in quotes. I think it was pretty strategic, knowing Ryan Reynolds now. But then Deadpool was, like, the number one r rated movie, I believe. And it was like, just, I remember watching it, and, you know, a lot of people like Ryan Reynolds. And, I mean, it's pretty sophomoric humor, but it. Even my sister in law, who doesn't watch any Marvel movies, says it's one of her favorite superhero movies.

>> Guido: Oh, I guess it was like a superhero movie for non superhero, and it.

>> Elliot: Came out in Valentine's Day. It was something that people hadn't really seen before because it's super violent, but also really funny. And, of course, and it has that.

>> Guido: Beautifully misogynistic romantic story.

>> Elliot: Lovely. Yes. it's fourth wall breaking, which people think is Deadpool, but it's really she Hulk first, but then Deadpool two, then came out, and I believe it came out in 2008, and we were talking, you know, off mic about how that was also the year of Infinity War and just kind of got lost in the shuffle. And it wasn't, you know, that it wasn't that great even. though I kind of like Josh Brolin as. As cable, and I like that portrayal. And, But, yeah, I mean, so the Fox movie then kind of petered out, especially with a whimper with new mutants being released. It was supposed to.

>> Guido: Yeah, I forgot that. And I think that's non canonical.

>> Elliot: Well, it's then that it was the pandemic, and then Disney had already owned the rights to Fox, so then they had to release it. And I, Yeah, it was fine. It was fine. So, yeah, the whole Fox Studios. Oh, and of course, then there was Daredevil was owned by Fox and the Fantastic Four and Elektra, which, will come into play a little bit later, though.

>> Guido: Their universe didn't cross over. No, they were pretty standalone, self contained. Other than all the x movies. And even those, though, like X Men origins, they sort of ignored I. Because you have Emma frost in that. They ignored that and then brought her back into first class.

>> Elliot: Oh, yes, we have to remember first class. The other convoluted part about the Fox universe, if you haven't seen them, is that the timeline makes absolutely zero sense.

>> Guido: Oh, my gosh.

>> Elliot: Especially when you think of first class is in the sixties, days of future past is supposed to be in the seventies, and then X Men Apocalypse is supposed to be in the eighties. But the characters don't age at all.

>> Guido: Well, and they've rewritten the timeline at that point. I don't know. And then Logan, where that falls, it's messy. But would you call yourself a fan?

>> Elliot: Yes, because it introduced, like, when I see Patrick Stewart and, like, multiverse of madness, I'm excited again.

>> Rob: Right.

>> Elliot: So, like, how can you. Yes, because they introduced us to live action X Men, and there's some great versions in there. but I'd also say, like, going back to the timeline thing, like, I love time travel movies. I love the logic of time travel. I will stand behind the end game. Time travel. Yeah, I can't stand behind you.

>> Guido: Can't even try to explain. It's so ridiculous. Yeah. Rob, what was your background with these movies? You saw them all at this point, but.

>> Rob: Well, of course, like you, Elliot, it really all started with those first two X Men movies, which I was a big fan of. But then a lot of these movies were coming out when I was in college, so I was not seeing a lot of movies. So, like, I still have never seen X Men origins. Wolverine, you're missing out. I need to see the original Deadpool iteration yeah. But, yeah, just when those were movies were coming out, I wasn't going to see a lot of these kind of movies. So I think it just was kind of almost falling in a, gap for me there. So I actually. And then, like, I had never seen Elektra until a few years ago, so I think a lot of those movies were just there. So I have lukewarm nostalgia for them. And I would also say with, like, X Men, this is maybe a controversial opinion, but, like, with Hugh Jackman, I think he's a great actor, and I think he acts the part of Logan and Wolverine really well. But for me, he never was a great fit. Even just last night when we were watching some YouTube video, they were saying, oh, there's never been a better fit between an actor and a character. And maybe because I was really raised on the animated series, like, that is my Wolverine, like, the super gruff and that caldodd voice and all, like, the bubs and everything. And I don't know. Hugh Jackman never was 100% that for me. And I think the other actors in the X Men movies too, so while I appreciated them, they never were like, oh, my God, that's. They're there. They're my X Mendez. So lukewarm nostalgia. How about you, Guido, as our big X Men fan?

>> Guido: I mean, I loved it when it was happening. I don't love it so much anymore, but I saw them all first run. I remember midnight screenings before movies would open, like, the day before. So I remember seeing Xn X Men one and two midnight screenings on Thursday night before the opening date. Saw them multiple times, have rewatched them countless times over the years.

>> Rob: You just did a, rewatch, like, leading up to Deadpool?

>> Guido: I did, and I sputtered out because I couldn't move past days of future past. I think there are some really awful choices. I think things like first class are not as good as people thought they were. I think it just felt fresh, but they're really just not that good. Even the Wolverine, I think, is. Two thirds of it is okay. One third of it's awful. And people still thought it was good, but that's because it was so much better than X Men origins Wolverine. So a lot of it was, like, relative at the time. In terms of Deadpool one and two also saw them both in theater and was fine on them. I remember liking the first one because it felt fresh and new. The humor felt. It felt boundary pushing. I don't like it very much, and I like it even less as I move further away from it, but I remember it just feeling like, whoa, I can't believe they're doing this. I always thought the movie was quite sexist in its disposition. I still think, rewatching it, that it is remarkably sexist for a 2010s movie. But it's fine. I was fine with it. I like Ryan Reynolds a lot in it. I think he's a good match. And so I'm a, big fan with a deep connection, but I think it's a problematic universe and movie series before going in to.

>> Elliot: So before moving on, what is your top Fox universe?

>> Guido: X two. That is like, I don't even have to think about that. I think probably most people share that opinion. It is, even in this giant rewatch, I'm like, x one has a lot of value, more value than I think people give it. I think it is doing a lot of great setup, and it is comic booky in enough ways, even though we know notoriously they were trying not to be too comic booky. But two broadens the universe and has these great characters and is really focused on who these people are and their motivation and their relationships. And it's fun and action packed, and it's a really, really, really good movie.

>> Rob: Yeah. And I'm a big villain guy, and I think Brian Cox and that is definitely one of the best villains in any comic book movie. And then when you look at the two Deadpool movies, I think one of.

>> Guido: Their biggest drawbacks, I could not even.

>> Rob: Remember the villain in the first movie is very forgettable. There almost really isn't even a villain, really, in the second movie. And I think that's one of the big downfalls of those movies. As much as there is some fun humor on the story side, on the conflict side, it's like, ooh, it's lacking.

>> Elliot: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Guido: So let's jump into our expectations before seeing Deadpool and Wolverine. So what is one thing you either hope for or we're expecting? And again, this is spoiler free.

>> Elliot: So as we were traveling to the movie together, we kind of talked about this, and I said I wanted my expectation because I, you know, they're gonna be cameos. None, of this was spoiled. I had seen the teaser trailer, but you guys hadn't seen anything.

>> Guido: No.

>> Elliot: We watched an ear flying for a week before this. I just wanted. I wanted to be so surprised at the cameos. I wanted to have a jaw dropping. Oh, and I exclaim in the theater, like I have when Captain America picked up Thor's hammer or when I think I even did. I looked at you when we saw John Krasinski, as Reed Richards in multiverse. I kind of look over, like, oh, my God, I can't believe this is happening. That's what I wanted. That's what I was hoping for. I just wanted a fun, entertaining movie. I wasn't expecting some deep movie that was going to connect everything in the MCU. I, just wanted a fun ride.

>> Rob: Mm

>> Guido: See? And I'll go next. I, unlike you, I wanted depth. That was what I was hoping for.

>> Elliot: Oh, I want depth. I just wasn't expecting.

>> Guido: I guess. I guess my hope superseded, my expectations. I was hoping for something deep and felt connected. Felt like it. There was a reason it was taking place now, which I think is really important to me, the timeline of these movies. I think the reason people are so focused on something like, why is no one talking about Tiamat from eternals? Is because it feels disconnected. It's not the, Even last night, we were watching a video where they were, like, it makes sense that people just didn't know this thing happened in the ocean. Fine. I agree. There can be an explanation, but it feels so isolated from everything else. It doesn't feel like, why did the eternals come out at that moment in that year? What came before? What came after? So I wanted this to feel like it was coming out now for a reason. Things that came before were important. Things that come after are important. That's what I wanted. And, Rob, how about you?

>> Rob: Yeah, I think for me, it's kind of connected a little bit to what you were saying, guido. I wanted a true multiversal movie. Cause we've talked about on this podcast, and I think with you too, Elliot Ozapod, that some of the movies that have been billed as multiversal have been a little less than that.

>> Guido: Yes.

>> Rob: So, like, you, multiversal light. Yeah. Like the John Krasinski cameo. Like, there's really not that much. We see the other worlds, but we don't really spend any time there. They're there for really a one off joke. And in Spider man, it's just kind of bringing back these other characters, but it's not really ever explained there. And I think there was even, and I think we all love X Men 97 and wouldn't change a thing, but there was even some talk there or expectations that I had is like, oh, maybe they're gonna make that also some kind of multiversal, tying it into the MCU, which it was not. So I think I really wanted. Okay, like, let's make this a true blue multiversal movie. Well, the, X Men Fox timeline is not. Not very easy to follow, but our timeline is, and it is exploring multiversity.

>> Elliot: I am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question, what if I.

>> Rob: So let's get into Deadpool and Wolverine, the 2024 movie, and Spoiler alert.

>> Guido: Yeah, this is. This is it. So if you, didn't want to be spoiled, then stop listening and come on back, because we're gonna talk about it all.

>> Rob: And of course, if you didn't want to hear any comic book news, you basically had to stay off all.

>> Guido: You have to live in a cave.

>> Rob: Cancel your newspaper subscriptions, and your telegraphs. But our question, our non redacted question is, what if Deadpool wrapped up the fox multiverse and maybe sort of phased out the multiverse of the MCU? So let's focus actually first on some things that we loved about the movie.

>> Elliot: Well, I'm gonna jump in. So, again, you've been warned about spoilers. I'm gonna spoil something right now. I, loved. There was the cameos in the middle, so when they're in the void, I actually don't even want to say it because it does feel like it's when the people come out, the others come out from the Fox universe. I love that part. And I think.

>> Guido: And the non Fox and the non Fox universe, the Paramount universe of Blade.

>> Elliot: so, yeah, when Elektra and Blade and Channing Tatum come out, which I was like, we were joking before the movie, I was like, that'd be so much fun if he was in it. And it was really fun. And then Daphne Keene is as x 23, Laura, Kenny, when they all come out, it was that moment. And I think, Rob, you told me, like, I didn't know I said it that loudly, but when Blade came out, I said, oh, my God. I, like, exclaimed.

>> Guido: I was clapping a lot here in the car.

>> Rob: We were saying, oh, Electra could be a good Channing Tatum. Could be. But none of us had said blades.

>> Guido: Anyone predicted that one.

>> Elliot: And then, for me, what I liked is it wasn't about the cameo. And this is what we've talked about before. It was. The cameos were meaningful. It wasn't like, multiverse of madness where they were there for, like, fun, and then they.

>> Guido: And they were there for 45 seconds.

>> Elliot: it was. And I know, Guido, you talk about this all the time, and I'm not as big a fan of meta stories, but I liked how the story was that their cameos are in there for a reason. It's to get closure. It's to have their moment. And they were used really well. There were jokes. Jennifer Garner was badass. Wesley Snipes was badass. I wanted more Daphne Keene, but, Laura Kenney was also really great. She has that really good moment. And there was scene closure. And they even do that fight scene there as they're jumping, as deadpool and Wolverine are jumping through the portal. You get their. They're still battling. They're having their closure. And I just really, like, as I woke up this morning replaying the movie in my head, that scene keeps coming back to me. Not just fact that I was wowed, which was fun, but they were meaningful.

>> Rob: I also think that the way they introduced them into the movie, compared to what the Spider man and multiverse of madness did, it made a lot of sense. It felt natural that we would meet those characters there. Like, when you think of the logic in no way home, it's like, does it really make sense? How are these. Why are just these three characters coming through?

>> Guido: Well, the void gives you a lot of freedom.

>> Rob: They mix. Yeah.

>> Guido: Like, and they had already established it because we'd already met Sabretooth and Pyro, so they toad. So they'd already, And we already met, of course, Johnny Storm. So they already established the void could just pull in these random people, and you didn't need an explanation why or how they got there or what happened on their timeline. Like, you didn't need any of that.

>> Elliot: That's what's crazy to me, too. I'm a huge. I love Chris Evans. Like, when I heard his voice, I looked over, you know, oh, my God. But it was. That was more of a joke. Like, yeah. like, it served a little bit of a purpose. But those cameos, the other ones are.

>> Guido: Were more meaningful to me. Yeah, they were.

>> Elliot: What about you, Rob? What was something you loved?

>> Rob: Well, you. You briefly mentioned a fight sequence, so I'm gonna. I'm gonna call out the fight sequences, I think were really great in this movie. I think sometimes Marvel does get rightfully criticized where it's. The fight sequences are just. There's a lot going. There's so much going on that you can't really follow it, or it's just two very muscly people battling it out, and it just kind of gets a little boring sometimes.

>> Elliot: I know you're not talking about Shang Chi, though.

>> Guido: That's my favorite.

>> Elliot: It's very good fight scenes, but this.

>> Rob: One was so well choreographed. It reminded me of some of the fight sequences in the Daredevil Netflix shows where everything, Is so intricate. And I love the way. Hm has a complete rhythm. And I love that they make it so that Deadpool is one of those characters who anything can become a weapon. So in, like, the opening sequence of this movie, they're really able to have all these fun moments. And it's not just, oh, his, his katanas and it's not just guns. Like, they're fine finding ways to make things. And also lean into the cartoonish comic book element where there's just ultra blood and the big final kind of sequence. It's fun battling these other deadpools because it also lowers the stakes in a good way because you know that they're going to regenerate and that he's not just, like, killing a bunch of people. It makes it fun.

>> Elliot: I just realized, too, the fight sequences are to. Bye, bye, bye.

>> Elliot: in the, in the car. And I'm a. I'm a father of three, so I own a. On the odyssey, which they. That was to, You're the one that I want from Greece. Right. Then it was Madonna at the end, and then it was ti. Bring em out. So they have these, like, really.

>> Rob: They had the fun pop.

>> Elliot: Oh, right.

>> Guido: And the battle. The fights are choreographed to the music. The music is not inconsequential. They even refer on screen at times to the song, like when they say we were singing Madonna. So they're clearly planning it. And that's part of that rhythm. Like, they're moving with the beat and it makes it this really cool sequence.

>> Rob: And you mentioned yesterday, Guido, I think so many times, we don't even realize that these songs are added after the fact.

>> Guido: So far. After the fact. They were consequential.

>> Rob: It's choreographed to the song. He's punching when he says, like, there's a lyric right. Where he's also something about hitting.

>> Guido: Yeah, and hit me with the truth.

>> Rob: Yeah, hit me with the truth. So, yeah. Fun that, you know, they took the time to actually think of this beforehand.

>> Elliot: Yeah, I blame. Or we can honor James Gunn for that. Cause James Gunn played the music on the set for Guardians of the Galaxy. And I'm gonna credit Barbie for integrating music into movies. Cause I think Barbie did that amazingly.

>> Guido: We can credit Madonna in desperately seeking Susan. Cause there's the story we just recently heard the director talk about where they used into the groove as the music on set without the intention of including it in the soundtrack. It was a demo song at the time, and then they included it in the soundtrack because it was so good and everyone was moving to it so perfectly.

>> Elliot: It all comes back to Madonna.

>> Guido: Madonna, finally, is that.

>> Rob: Is that there was a Madonna?

>> Guido: It's not. I did love it. I did love it. And I'm dying to know what note she gave Ryan Reynolds. But, I just love that she was even involved in this conversation. My first thing I loved, I'll say, is, is the meta storytelling. I love meta storytelling. It's why this show exists. And I loved the comments that the others were making, like Jennifer Garner and Wesley snipes, talking about just wanting a legacy and wanting to be known. I think that's so meaningful because one of the things we talk about on the show, and one of the things that often, like, gets me at, my emotional core is how stories matter to everyone. Like, everyone there is someone who loves Elektra, and it's a really powerful story for them. And it doesn't matter if it's good or bad or people like it. Who cares? Someone connects with that story. And so it's really important that we honor every story and that we realize these stories that came before the impact they had even on superhero movies, the fact that these movies existed. I mean, Blade, notoriously, is the. The beginning of Marvel's box office domination. What about the duck? Exactly. That stalled it for about a decade. So I think it's very cool meta storytelling to have these characters in there talking about what they want as characters. That's. That kind of meta storytelling that I love is they're talking to us as an audience, and it works on screen in the universe. And it's something that I think Deadpool does really well, and Ryan Reynolds does really well with it. Is that fourth wall breaking where he's. You're in the audience, you're in the movie, he's talking to you, and you still feel that it's a story. You don't feel that you're somehow being broken out of the story. I love that.

>> Rob: And I think it will inspire people who didn't see those movies to go back and go like, oh, now I want to see Electra. Like, I actually haven't seen Blade two or three, bizarrely enough. And now it's like, God, I really should.

>> Guido: And you might reassess it, or you might, or you might not like it, and you're. But you're like, okay, I get it. Like, exist, fine, whatever. This got messed up. Who cares? Something happened. But, well, it's funny.

>> Elliot: In the X Men rewatch. I was listening to another podcast, and one of the hosts said she likes X Men three, the last stand more now because of days of future past, because she knows it resets it. So it's not canon anymore. So it's strange that it can do that. And on that, my other favorite thing is the thing I found I was laughing at the most was. Or that loved about the movie was the inside baseball, about Marvel, all the fourth wall breaking, when it had to do with recognizing that Ryan Reynolds is playing Deadpool in a movie. that was an end of the Fox universe and acquisition, by Disney. I just thought every one of those things was funny. especially, like, Kevin Feige with the cocaine joke and acknowledging that, like, Hugh Jackman was coming in the MCU, but he's, like, kind of at a down moment. Like, all those kind of things were funny. And one of the opening scenes is the comic accuracy, too. Like, we do get a multiverse of madness when he's going to find Wolverine.

>> Guido: Oh, my gosh. Like, age of Apocalypse Wolverine. We haven't even discussed.

>> Elliot: I know, right? So. And seeing short Wolverine and Henry Cavill's Wolverine, like, those types of things were like, I just love those. And that. That was the joyride that I wanted to go on. And that brought, like, I was just had. I was clapping. I don't usually clap at movies. I clapped. I was smiling. I was laughing.

>> Guido: There was exciting.

>> Elliot: I was gasping. I loved that part of it. Ah. And found those, you know. Cause I don't like the Ryan Reynolds what has not aged well in Deadpool one and two is the. We've talked about this, too. It's just like, the blatant homophobic humor. Like, the joke is always about him. just like the sophomore, you know, jokes about body parts and, you know, things like that too. And I. And most of the humor there. There is that a little bit more. It owns it a little bit more is not, is not making, you know, homophobia as the joke. But it was the self referential, fourth wall breaking stuff that I liked more.

>> Guido: Yeah. And I think it wasn't cheap. Right. That was the difference in the humor in this one, to me, for whatever reason, whether it was stronger writers or stronger leadership or vision or. I don't know, Ryan Reynolds growth is.

>> Elliot: A human being, maybe.

>> Guido: But the first two, a lot of the jokes, even the self referential jokes, and definitely the jokes about, like, sex or bodies, they felt really cheap. And this movie, it didn't feel that even the jokes the digs at Marvel, the digs of the multiversal saga. Like, none of it felt cheap. It didn't feel like it was diminishing. It felt like it was funny. It was a little bit of a wink wink, nudge, nudge, like, sort of nod to things without being mean or cruel or punching down any of that.

>> Rob: Yeah. And if you can't, punch down at a giant corporate conglomerate, who can you punch down at?

>> Guido: It's true.

>> Rob: Well, I'd say the other thing I really enjoyed about this movie is I mentioned before, being a villain guy. I love the villains, and it's been no secret that a lot of the MCU movies have been lacking. They have had some amazing villains. I think the Ultron, I think Thanos is a great villain. But Mads Mikkelsen and Doctor strange, no one's writing home about that character.

>> Elliot: Someone is. To give us points.

>> Guido: Don't be so dismissive.

>> Elliot: That's true.

>> Rob: That's true. But I would say this movie does have some. Two really great villains in it, and, do there.

>> Guido: Who's the second?

>> Elliot: Paradox.

>> Guido: Paradox. Oh, okay. Yeah. And he's totally a villain. That's fine. That's fine. I was just thinking, like, art villain.

>> Rob: Cassandra nova level, he's gonna destroy an entire world. Yeah. And I don't know if their plans make 100%, actually, especially paradox, we don't get too much into some of, like, his psychology of why he wants to do what he wants to do. But I think the actors playing them, Emma Corin and Matthew McFadian, I think they both have. They're, having a lot of fun with the roles, and I think it's maybe tied into what we're talking about for the movie as a whole, which is that they're having just a lot of fun in general, and I think they both have very scene chewing kind.

>> Guido: Of things, and I'm a Corin especially. I would love them to come back in that role, because they were. Yeah. Just so interesting to look at, but then also snarky in a good way, but then that effect of their hand in people's brains, like, yeah, it worked. It worked all the ways you want a villain to work.

>> Elliot: Yeah. I told you, I'm not, like a film critic. I'm the opposite of one.

>> Guido: Yet I would.

>> Elliot: I would characterize their performances. I was Austria. I was mesmerized by them every time they were on screen. I was. I was dialed in. I was focused. I love their delivery of their lines. There was just something about their performance. I.

>> Guido: The costuming was great. Everything.

>> Elliot: Work hand, like, everything. gestures.

>> Guido: That's true. Yeah, totally.

>> Elliot: The way they're body and the snark to. To match Deadpool, pool was, and there was a threat too. The character Cassandra Nova's powers were really. I was like, how are they gonna do this? Yeah, I love that. It's like the same thing with thanos. You're like, how are they gonna do this if you can do anything?

>> Guido: And they used the wild Grant Morrison comic book origin, which is just bonkers.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: So that was fun, which we had talked about beforehand.

>> Elliot: I was like, deadpool. The Deadpool franchise has leaned in a little bit to Morrison because they had megasonic teenage warhead. I always want to call her, like, teenage mutant ninja. but I was like, oh. Because they took some. A character from. From the Morrison run, and we were talking about that. They're like, no way she's gonna be the twin. Yeah. I mean, she didn't get absorbed, but she did. He did try to strangle her in.

>> Rob: The womb when, and I think, like, with paradox, I love that they really leaned into kind of a bond villain since.

>> Elliot: Yeah.

>> Rob: Fadian. Most of us know him from succession, where he had to do this. He did a spot on american accent, but here he could use what I imagine was his, his actual accent. And he's. And it's like the bureaucracy, the stuff that we got to explore in Loki, that being like, the TSA, being like that. Ultimate bureaucracy.

>> Guido: The TSA is the real one.

>> Rob: Yeah, the. A lot quicker. Yeah. And almost the aesthetic of that world, too, has a very bond, like aesthetic that we had. So I. He had that arch bond, villain kind of thing very, very much down, so. Yeah, yeah. Props to them. They're villains.

>> Elliot: He played it up, too. He was having fun. Yeah.

>> Rob: And especially after the other two Deadpool movies, having probably some of the worst antagonists.

>> Guido: Yeah, exactly.

>> Elliot: These movies, I said, I like Josh Brolin as cable, though, but he's almost.

>> Rob: Like, he's an antagonist, but he's not really, like, a villain.

>> Elliot: Yeah.

>> Guido: So my final thing for this segment is fitting, because it's about endings. Something I loved and did met my expectations here was that the movie really was fine. Giving an ending to people, and one of my endgame tattoos is part of the journey is the end. And I think this was a beautiful send out to the Fox universe. We can talk about whether or not we think it is the official end of the Fox universe forever or not, but I think it felt like an ending both to the story it was telling and to the larger universe. And then when I think about endings, the other thing I'm struck by and ah, I had thought about the scene, the end of Wolverine and Deadpool, and how much it reminded me of the end of David Tennant on Doctor who. They're sitting at dinner and that could be it. We could never see them again. And we now know they're okay and they're being heroes and the world just goes on. The other thing I hadn't really thought about though, when Elliot, when you were describing the end as they're jumping through the portal, the rest of the team still fighting. That reminds me of the end of angel, which is the end of the Buffy universe. It's the final shock, since angel ends after Buffy. So it's ultimately the final, canonical Joss Whedon shot of the Buffy universe is them gathered in an alley, ready to fight a dragon. Done. And so you have no idea what's gonna happen. And he always said that the reason he did that is cuz these people are going out fighting and you don't need to know what's gonna happen. You can't conclude every story. You can't bring it to resolution, but you can give a satisfying ending. And that's what happened here. Like, who knows? We don't know if Elektra was killed by Elias, she could still be in the void. Who knows? I don't think we're gonna see her again. We don't need to see her again. But I love the fact that, like, they got their ending, they're going out fighting Hugh and Ryan and Deadpool and Wolverine got their ending. They're happy, they're heroes. Like everything had an ending. And then the credit sequence was just perfect.

>> Elliot: I was just thinking too, just like a meta story. Whether you like Elektra or not gonna see her, that film lives on. So that movie, if you like Elektra and you like the daredevil franchise with Ben Affleck, it's. You can always watch it.

>> Guido: Yes.

>> Elliot: Right. No one's gonna take it away from you.

>> Guido: No.

>> Rob: But you gotta own the dvd.

>> Elliot: There's no dvd.

>> Rob: They might. They might have. They might disappear digitally. So get physical media. Is. That. Is the real.

>> Elliot: That's true. This is real. The message of the podcast. But I just hadn't considered that too. Like it does. It is. It could be commenting on that too, if. Oh, if you like Electra, she's still out there in the void somewhere. Yeah, she's at a blockbuster.

>> Guido: The story exists.

>> Rob: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

>> Guido: That's the hard thing about endings to ongoing stories. It's why people often debate, like, what are the best series finales of tv shows and, like, what works and what doesn't, because it's really hard when you have this world that people have built a relationship to, that people feel a part of, and it's gone on for years and it can't go on forever. And you need to end some of it. How do you end something again, you can't bring it to conclusion. The story will always exist, and you can't satisfy everyone.

>> Rob: So this is a great segue into our next one because Marvel actually just brought, back someone who they said is never, ever coming back again. So let's ponder some possibilities.

>> Elliot: Will the future you describe be averted? Averted. Averted.

>> Rob: So, Guido, for our final segment, pondering possibilities, what should we wonder about?

>> Guido: Well, let's focus in on the future. The questions that we're left with about what's next from this movie really building from what we saw in this Movie. But also, it was so well timed, like, wildly timed with San Diego Comic Con Hall H announcements. And what's weird is they're not clearly related. Like, Hall H could have been four weeks ago and wouldn't have spoiled DeadPool and Wolverine, or Deadpool and Wolverine could have come out four weeks ago and it wouldn't have mattered. But, like, just have them timed at the same time. They're both dealing with the multiverse in Complicated ways. So it does leave us to wonder a lot about what could be next in this story.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: So what's something you're wondering, Rob?

>> Rob: I think the big thing I'm wondering is what we kind of mentioned in our question, which is, is this the end of multiversal storytelling in the MCU? And after seeing DeadPool and Wolverine, I was really thinking, you know what? I think they're moving beyond this Multiversal storytelling. There's a few lines here in the movie where it's like Deadpool says, oh, this isn't working. And a lot of fans have been lukewarm on it for various reasons. But then watching some of the Hall h stuff, especially, like, the big casting news, it was like, oh, are they moving on from multiversal ness? Like, is? Or are they going to kind of bring in some of it, but kind of abandon the kind of greater way of approaching that? So what do you, what do you.

>> Guido: Both, well, I think one fascinating thing I'll point out, and this was care of new rock stars who we were watching some of the Hall H announcements alongside, was the blade remark in the movie, which can't, I can't imagine. Could have been, like, actually meta self referential. But to have Wesley Snipes say, there will only ever be one blade at the same time that the Blade movie has lost its director and gets zero mention last night on Hall H, it's really weird. It kind of makes you wonder, like, wait, are they gonna just cancel blade and, like, sort of move away from this other iteration of multiversal storytelling they would have had with a new blade character? I doubt it. But, it just, it's just interesting to think about, like, what, how does this movie's treatment of the multiverse and the Hall H announcements treatment of the multiverse, how do they align in the larger arc that's happening with Marvel, with the vision of Marvel's story and where we're going? It's interesting to think about the two together.

>> Elliot: Yeah. Yeah. I don't, if I can answer your question, I don't think there. I don't think this movie ended the multiverse. I think it's, what we're seeing is their end game, like, how they're going to wrap up the multiverse. They have to pivot with the Jonathan Major's Kang thing. And so they did a wonderful job of getting us excited about Victor von Doom. Right. And ignoring all of that and not even mentioning Kang or anything like that. I think m my question, though, is I don't think we're done with, my wondering is I wonder when we're going to see Deadpool again, because I do think. I think there's no more Deadpool movie. I think there's no more Fox franchise movie. But I do think that Ryan Reynolds, even Hugh Jackman, could show up in one of these huge tentpole avengers, you know, secret wars or something like that, just to tie, just to wrap things up. So that's what I want. I will. I'm not, I don't like to bet. I'm, like, 95% sure. Maybe not Hugh Jackman.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Elliot: But Ryan Reynolds, the Deadpool character, needs to show up again.

>> Guido: Well, I think this movie and the Hall H announcement of Robert Downey Juniore, I think they did two things to tell us, to me, what we can expect from the future of the multiverse. I think, one, what this movie did is we can get a multiversal story without, thinking about or worrying about the weight of the other universe, because that's where multiversal story becomes really hard to do. Without it feeling cheap, because you can't have high stakes unless you care about all of the universes. And that's a really hard thing to do in a movie particular. So I think the fact that Elektra is in this movie and we don't know.

>> Guido: We have no idea how her story has progressed since her movie, and we don't need to know that. So I think that gives us a little model. So in some ways, Elliot, if Deadpool shows up again, I think that's what it'll be. They'll pluck hero Deadpool out of earth, 10,005, and that's it. We won't know. We won't know. Izzy with Morena Baccarin, we won't know. We don't need to know. Like, that story is done. We can use the character, though. So I think that's one thing that we got told by this. The other thing I got think we got told by this is that who's playing these characters doesn't matter that much. So Chris Evans is Johnny Storm, and the fact that he looks like Steve Rogers doesn't matter that much. Robert Downey junior is Victor von Doom. They confirmed in their variety interview, well timed last night, that he's not a Tony Stark variant. So stop being obsessed with variants and who's playing the character and all that and just like, let it go. I think those are the two messages we're getting about the future of the movie.

>> Elliot: I can't let that one go. It really bothers me, m, because it always bothered me. In no way home. You and I had this conversation, Guido and I did. It was like, how can. Cause I'm m. Like, biology, science. I'm like, how can Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland all be Peter Parker? Like, with the D, like, with DNA and how it works and all this stuff.

>> Guido: Some reasonable each other.

>> Elliot: Like, that logic really bothers me. I'm fine with, like, Gemma Chan playing two different characters in the MCU because they look really different. Right. Like makeup or something like that, too. But, yeah, so, I mean, I'm not going to judge anything about Victor von Tomb until.

>> Guido: Yeah, and we don't know how they're going to handle it.

>> Elliot: it excites me, but.

>> Guido: Yeah, but I think, again, I think they told us how they're going to handle it with Johnny Storm yesterday. There's no reference to Chris Evans being Steve Rogers or even looking like Steve Rogers. He's on screen. We enjoy it. We all know he's both characters.

>> Rob: Yeah, and Deadpool, because he's fourth wall breaking, knows that he's both characters joke. No, but he's, he's thinking. He's going to say, like, avengers assemble. And he thinks like, yeah, right.

>> Guido: He does, right.

>> Elliot: He thought it was Captain America, but.

>> Rob: If it was another character, I don't think that would be the case. Like, I don't think Wolverine doesn't. That's because it's Deadpool. And he knows. He knows both. He is us. He knows that it's Chris Evans.

>> Guido: Yeah. So I think, yeah, I think we have some maybe clues to the future of the multiverse here, but, yeah, like.

>> Rob: I was surprised at the end of Deadpool that he didn't end up in the six one six. I was definitely thinking, oh, that's where he's going to end up. but it's interesting that they kept him in this other verse because I think, to your point about endings, Guido, that this could be the last time we ever see him. Or to what you're saying, elliot, it's very easy to put him in secret wars, and they have a lot of flexibility. And one thing I think that they've done in, especially some of these stingers, is take away their flexibility. Like, the fact that one of the biggest things I think that's hanging out there right now is Monica is actually still stuck in the Fox universe.

>> Guido: Well, or not the Fox universe.

>> Rob: Or not the Fox universe.

>> Guido: A universe where Kelsey Grammer is beast, but not necessarily, but they very much pigeon.

>> Rob: They very much kind of stuck themselves into, like, a dead end there in terms of, like, well, we have to resolve this in one way or the other, right?

>> Elliot: Yeah, it's true. They could have, like, a poor move would have been, you end the Deadpool in Wolverine movie, and then the Stinger is. Then he gets sucked into the six, and you're like, oh, he's, you know, now it's left us wondering, which is, I'd rather have the wondering than the, the excitement of seeing someone show up again and having it not pan out. Like Bruce Banner and Carol Danvers at the end of Shang Chi or Black, knight at the end of the turtles. Or, like, we could go on and on and on. There's too many properties and there are too many. There's not enough time to film all these things to give us that, which is.

>> Guido: Yeah, well, I think one cool thing is, well, and this is what the Loki series finale did. And even though the second series was disappointing to us, I think the ending was really great because it's what gave us this. It gave us a stable multiverse. Yeah. So this can only. This story could only happen after Loki. And this goes back to my expectation, which was met, is that this story had to follow Loki because we had to understand Loki. We had to understand that there can be a stable multiverse that people can travel between. And it doesn't create, immediate conflict. One world doesn't need to end. It's not impossible to do. it just exists. That's the way comic books have always existed. So. I like that this movie showed us an example of that. Yeah. Is there something you're left wondering?

>> Elliot: It was really when they're gonna show up again? I think it's hard to have this conversation knowing the Marvel MCU announcements, because, there's nothing that Deadpool and Wolverine does. My wondering is just more about, you know, they've. We've got the three movies coming out next year, and then we've got this announcement for the two Avengers movies in 26 and 27. My wondering is, what are the other? They can't just have. I mean, they could do one movie. They are trying to prune and streamline.

>> Guido: Yeah, maybe there's prune.

>> Elliot: Prune. I'm trying to use it because I think it's a great. I think it is actually a really good metaphor for what they are literally doing behind the scenes as a corporation is they are trying to. It's not streamlining. Streamlining is going to be after secret, wars. But they are pruning down. They're trying to get rid of all these branches. They've created, and tell really good, more singular stories. But they have to, I think they don't have to. If it's only one movie per year, I'm great. I'd rather have a great movie than have five.

>> Guido: I agree. And it's funny, other movies, it's funny because when they ramped up the content, I remember, you and I were very excited because it felt like, oh, my gosh, we could go all year with Marvel content. And now that we saw what happens when some of it is not as good or not as connected to everything, it doesn't feel as good. And now I'm like, okay, if there's one movie that I love every year, I am fine with that.

>> Rob: I think they've also are leaning more into things like what they did with Echo, which it's like, we're telling you right from the start, this is not really going to be connected. This is not necessarily a character. You're ever going to see again. So unlike when you're watching she Hulk and you're going like, oh, this is connected to this. And when are we going to see her again? It's like, oh, no, Echo is just going to have this standalone thing. And we were speculating even last night that Iron Heart could have a very.

>> Guido: Could be a spotlight.

>> Rob: Spotlight.

>> Elliot: Well, I always use my wife Nancy as a litmus test for this. Is that what is the, she doesn't read any comics. She knows nothing about this. She doesn't follow any of this stuff on social media. She doesn't do the inside baseball. And she kind of lost it because, and Kevin Feige just said this in an interview, he realizes that most people don't like doing homework. Like we like doing homework. I will rewatch, which I did all the X Men movies except for Dark Phoenix and new Mutants before seeing Deadpool because I like doing that. I'm a student of this stuff. It's really fun. Most people, like my wife, don't want to do it. They don't, they don't want to have to watch every Disney series to see these. And I think they're realizing that she wants to go the movie theater and have a movie theater experience and be wowed. And they lost sight of that, trying to connect all the, and it's like we're comic book fans and probably many of you listening read comic books. It's like it happens every time when you get the event, like Blood Hunt. Do you have to read all the tie ins? No, but it enhances the experience. But you should also just be able to read Blood Hunt or whatever the event is. And just really, that's such a perfect.

>> Guido: Analogy because I think that's what Deadpool and Wolverine did. It felt like an event movie in that way where like knowing all the Fox movies, knowing Elektra and Blade, knowing the comic book references, like the Age of Apocalypse, or like the fever dream cover where he's strapped to the x, knowing those things enhances the experience. Experience. But I imagine, and I can't ever have this experience, but I imagine you could still enjoy that movie even if you don't know those things. And so that's, it does feel like an event.

>> Rob: And, ah, I think it actually, it's almost strangely making me think of diversity in a way because I'm thinking like something like Echo, like if you are an indigenous person or you're, or you're a disabled person, you might want to watch that series to see yourself represented there, but you might not care at all about anything else marvel related. But you want to go into that world there. Or if you're a big Ryan Reynolds fan, like, you want to see. I know, yelly. You joke all the time. Like, your wife will see something with Chris Evans in it, but she doesn't necessarily care about, like, the rest of it. So, like.

>> Elliot: Like, ghosted.

>> Rob: Yeah. So you can lean into, I think, representation or. Or an actor, and people can want to see that, but they don't necessarily then need to see anything else.

>> Guido: Well, it gives you that, like, a story for everyone, which Kevin Feige has talked about wanting.

>> Guido: So my wondering is X Men. We haven't talked a lot about the X Men. I will say I felt completely satisfied by the X Men content of Deadpool and Wolverine. I think they do a good job, and I think they were probably very intentional about, saying the X Men over and over and over again. They call them the X Men. They talk about the X Men. They talk about the team. We see Colossus, they talk about Xavier. Obviously, Cassandra Nova is a, deeply entrenched X Men character. Then you have the saber tooth pyro, juggernaut, gambit, all these pieces of X Men stuff showing up. Toad, you have, the wolverine being part of an X Men universe. So I love how much X Men was in this. They didn't, like, shy away because we weren't going to see Patrick Stewart or James McAvoy, or we didn't see Ian McKellen or Michael Fassbender. We didn't see Famka, which I would have loved, but we didn't. So I like that. I think sometimes when you don't get the cameos in the fan service, they sort of want to not draw attention to it. And so they pull back. And this movie, I don't think pulled back from the X Mendez, but it leaves us with a question of the X Men in the MCU. And I think this is what everyone is thinking post Hall H, because, of course, most of us were expecting an X Men announcement at Hall H. I wasn't at all. You're cynical, and I'm sure we probably won't get one until a year from now. I think a year from now is maybe the first time. You think two years from now? No way. A year from now is when we'll get it. But, yeah, it's just unclear where the X Men will come into this. Yeah, I have a theory, but I'll leave my wondering, and then I'll share.

>> Elliot: My theory just to add on to that. When you were talking about the X Men references, they also do it at two really powerful moments. They do it when Logan is talking to. We never even mentioned the Logan movie, by the way, which plays a huge role in this movie. But anyways, when Wolverine is talking to Cassandra Nova and saying what Charles would have wanted, I thought that was really powerful, using his character and using.

>> Guido: What motivates him to form the expert. Like, it's the whole genesis of the team.

>> Elliot: is that it's great. And then when Wolverine's talking to Laura Kenny at the campfire and he's mentioning, like, what, you know, why he's wearing the suit. He mentions them all by name.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Elliot: Like, to know that he lived in this reality with those characters, and they were really meaningful. And having just watched X Men 97 and loved it, that's what I was actually thinking about. Rob, to your point, is, like, I was picturing those characters that I know from that, that animated series. It's pretty cool that they did that.

>> Rob: Well, I think, like, we were saying pruning the. How many shows they were doing. I think they've also become wise to, like, let's prune the amount of anticipation that we have. Like, if they had just put in. Into this movie or in the Hall H announcements, like, here's the X Men. We'd be like, okay, there's Doctor doom, and there's the X men. They, like, they know to, like, ration this stuff out now. And also, like, have fans be invested in Doom in the fantastic four? Because if they had announced X Men, I think it would have also been stepping on the Captain America movie and the Fantastic Four movie. Like, it would have overshadowed or potentially overshadowed all of that. So I think they're very smart now. It's like, okay, let's let those things live and breathe and grow their fandom, and then we're gonna introduce these other characters.

>> Elliot: I think they're learning their lesson, too. Like, they keep getting way ahead of themselves. Notice there was no timeline at the hall h. There was no interesting. I think they did that on purpose.

>> Rob: My black knight movie, we don't know. When is it?

>> Elliot: The Black Knight holiday special.

>> Rob: So what was your theory? Are you telling us your theory?

>> Guido: Yeah, it's not that big. I think a lot of people probably share this theory, but in our conversation about what we think is next in the multiverse and wondering about the x Men, and then the third part of my third prong that led me here is this idea that the Fantastic Four are, ah, going to get introduced as the fantastic four of a different universe.

>> Elliot: Yeah, I think so.

>> Guido: It makes me think that what we're going to end up with is a battle world scenario. a, Hickman secret wars battle world scenario. So doomsday doom is collecting worlds and putting them together, but what we. I do not believe the Fox universe will be one of those worlds anymore. I would have thought so pre this movie. But Deadpool and Wolverine, I do think, is the end of the Fox universe. I think the credits make it crystal clear they are saying goodbye to that world. So instead, what the Fantastic Four thing makes me think is you could have a world with X Men.

>> Elliot: Yeah.

>> Guido: And. And not the X Men we know. Not the Fox X Men. No baggage of the X Men. But you can put them in whatever position they want to put them. If they want to do the giant size team, if they want to do the OG team, if they want to do some hybrid modern team, whoever they want on the team, they can just establish, have their. Have be part of the world. And post secret wars, once Doom has assembled the battle world, all the worlds collide, everything smushes together. You've got whatever X Men they want to give us. And so the X Men are there. So it's. No, it's not a callback to Fox, nor is it necessarily, we have to start from scratch. So I. The Fantastic Four thing is making me think, okay, this is probably how we're gonna get X Men, even the Fantastic Four being subtitled, first steps. I think it's really clear, like, okay, we're starting you off here, and then I think that's going to lead us into something bigger.

>> Elliot: So I wholeheartedly agree, because I do think they're going to follow, I think they're going to follow Hickman's run pretty carefully, especially with the Fantastic Four, like, having, I guess they showed a clip in Hall H and it said, the future Foundation. I think they're using him as a blueprint, and they're right to do so. And I agree, like, we were just talking about off mic, is that what secret wars did in the comics was it brought the ultimate universe in and brought Miles Morales into the 616. And I do think, I don't know if we're gonna get all of the X Men, but I do think we're gonna get some of the major casting characters, then we'll get people excited to watch.

>> Guido: That's what's cool. So, because if we had not had Deadpool and Wolverine, I think we already could have imagined that Secret wars was gonna do that was gonna do the battle world and then conclude in some sort of resolved, fused universe. But we would have all thought it was gonna happen with the Fox.

>> Elliot: Yes. Yes.

>> Guido: And now what they've done is moved that out of the way. And what that does is it also gives us the future beyond secret wars, because Pedro Pascal is not going to only play Reed for these three movies. We all know that to be true. We all know the Fantastic Four will have to survive beyond secret wars. So it's cool that secret wars is not going to be doing what the Hickman did in terms of taking two already established universes and fusing them. If it does this, I think it's going to do it with a bunch of new universes that we actually don't know already.

>> Elliot: Right.

>> Rob: And I think.

>> Guido: And that's cool.

>> Elliot: And then you can just have what we've always wanted, which is all the toys in the sandbox.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Elliot: It's just like, I keep calling it a pruning or it's a. It's not a. It's not a reboot, but it's a, ah. What was I calling it before?

>> Guido: Reset.

>> Elliot: It's a reset where it's now, like, the MCU is just like the Marvel comics universe, where it's got everybody. You don't have to introduce people. It's just there. And that's my big wonder. That's, I guess a hope and a wonder is, like, how is this gonna change moving forward? It makes sense to me from an acting standpoint, from a franchise standpoint.

>> Rob: and I think it gives the MCU as a whole, then with the Fantastic Four, and then I think especially with the X Men, like a tentpole within the tent pole, because so many of these actors that we've now known for 20 years have already started to be phased out, or someone like Chris Hemsworth is not going to be still playing Thor after Secret wars. But then we're going to have all these X Men that we're going to get to know, and then we have these characters that have kind of, unfortunately, like, Shang Chi sat on the back bench now for a few years. They can have their movies. The X Men can kind of be the tent pole that all these things are then revolving around, and then maybe we get some of those legacy characters reintroduced in brand new ways. Even so much excitement. Do you both feel more, both kind, of a closing question was, like, both of you were feeling, I think, a little, I don't know, over the MCU but it weren't super excited, like, has this movie and has, like, the announcements, has that made you more excited for what's to come than you have been?

>> Guido: I think they fixed the MCU. I will say.

>> Elliot: I think so, too. It wasn't that I wasn't down the MCU. I wasn't. Every movie that came out pre Endgame, it was an event I was so excited for. And then after I was after Endgame, and then, like, I, like, love and Thunder kind of broke me a little bit. but, yes, I'm excited. I will say the Russo brothers and Robert Downey Junior coming back isn't what excite, like, emotionally, that's fun. Intellectually, I'm like, I wish they could have done something else, but they're going safe. I think it's gonna be really fun. So, yes, I'm like, I was just. Yeah, I'm excited again.

>> Rob: Yeah, yeah.

>> Guido: I just think from a storytelling perspective, what we were just discussing and what my theory is, I think fixes it for me is that they're. They're. They're gonna find a way to keep a central story, but allow all these stories to be told, to not get weighted down, but to have things feel connected, like they're gonna finally achieve that. They had sort of. They had definitely achieved it in phase one, and then they got too big and grew beyond it, and, it couldn't sustain it. And now I think we're going back into that, where you can have these movies that matter a little less, these movies that matter a little more. But everything feels really connected. Everything feels really exciting. yeah, I think it's fixed, actually.

>> Elliot: I was just thinking, it reminded me phase one was exciting, phase two got too big, and then phase three, once they announced that there were gonna be two Avengers movie movies, phase three, all that storytelling brought it to that point. And that's where I think we are right now. It's like now that Deadpool and Wolverine's come out, every movie, and all these announcements are going to be leading to not just secret wars, but leading to this end of the multiverse saga. And I think that actually, the back half of that storytelling is going to be. It gets really exciting.

>> Rob: I can't wait till they bring craven into the MCU. Then they're really exciting.

>> Guido: No, no. Sony universe is dead.

>> Rob: Guido, you talked about endings, and this is our ending, so thank you for listening.

>> Guido: That is a wrap. Dear Watchers, I have been Guido and.

>> Rob: I have been rob. You can find all of my past franchises on dvd.

>> Elliot: And I have been, Elliot still waging battle as the end credits roll.

>> Guido: But, Elliot, how do people find you? Because you are still doing incredible art for, I think, every comic book podcast that exists. Is that right? I believe you have achieved that.

>> Elliot: Vader, if you're listening, we gotta get, you know, we started something. It fell through so short. Box nation. I'm coming for you next. I'm at Elliot two ls, one t. Comic art on mostly Instagram.

>> Guido: Yeah, and our viewing list is in the show notes. You can follow us online at Dearwatchers.

>> Rob: And leave us a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.

>> Guido: In the meantime, inwards of Uatu, keep pondering the.