Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

Rob: Welcome to Dear Watchers, a comic book Omniverse podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.
Guido: We are traveling through the storylines before and after that inspired or took inspiration from this week's amazing alternate universe. And your watchers on this journey continue to be me, Guido. I was going to call myself Gunk, but that might be a little esoteric for the reference today. We'll see. We'll get there.
Rob: Hello, darlings. It's me, Rob. Master of the Dark.
Guido: All right, that works.
Rob: That's our special featured superstars usual intro. And Guido, I have two questions for you. What's new and how's your head?
Guido: Never had any complaints. I'm answering them in reverse order. And in terms of what's new, this is an exciting episode for so many reasons. It is our first foray into something past Marvel and DC. And we have been planning for a while to go out beyond the boundaries of Marvel and DC and even beyond the boundaries of superheroes. And I think we found the perfect first alternate universe to do that with. So that's exciting. We both also have an extensive back story with the subject of today's episode. So that's exciting. And it's also tied into multiple episodes, which is really exciting. Hopefully everyone likes this enough that it warrants multiple episodes and that people will stay with us for multiple episodes. But we'll reveal later why there's at least one follow up episode that you'll need to hear if you're even remotely interested in anything that comes up today. So this is really fun. It's a bit of an arc we're doing.
Rob: Really, and quite fun. We're beating around the Bush, but they'll know who we're talking about because her name is going to be in the title of this episode. And it's Elvira Mistress of the Dark.
Guido: It is Elvira Mistress of the Dark. So let's get underway.
Rob: Yes. And if you are joining us for the first time after a quick summary of our alternate Earth, we have origins of the story, discovering what is inspired this other reality, exploring Multiversity, diving deeper into our alternate universe and pondering possibilities, examining the impact of this visit to the multiverse. And with that Dear Watchers, let's shimmy into our slinky black dresses. And welcome to episode 45, where we'll check out what's happening in the multiverse with today's alternate universe. And today we as the Council of Watchers, monitoring the comic book Omniverse. We have declared the following question. What if Elvira entered a multiverse of horror movie worlds?
Guido: And our question comes from an Earth with no number and no reference point because it doesn't exist in a multiverse of a large publisher that has been indexed or annotated. So really excited for I don't know, maybe we should have come up with a number, but whatever on Earth six, six, six O'vira enters the multiverse, and we will get into a lot more detail when we get into the issue that presents us with this multiverse. But very long story short, the ghost of Vincent Price reveals to Elvira that uh movies are like dreams. They're little pocket dimensions. And this is a quote from the issue we're reading a universe unto themselves, and they may not be real, but like dreams, they're powerful and there is a reality to them. And Elvira ends up falling into many different universes, a multiverse of horror movies. And we will go into a lot more detail about what that means when we get to our multiverse issue. But that is the summary, I think, of today's alternate Earth.
Rob: Yes. And Guitar, what is your background with Elvira Mistress uh of the Dark?
Guido: Well, we were born into reality the same year, so we have been destined for each other since 1981 two. And I have loved Elvira since 1987 or earlier, when my mother probably the movie. I don't know how many reference points I would have had for her. Her show wasn't national. She was a big advertising spokesperson in the 80s. We'll get into a lot of her backstory in a few minutes. But I do know the movie came out and I saw it immediately with my mother. I was six years old. My mother, who would not let me see Dirty Dancing, somehow thought it was totally reasonable to bring me to see Elvira and watch it all the time on the VHS tape that I had taped off HBO when it finally aired on HBO, maybe because it had a little dog and referenced classic horror movies, which my mother always got me into Hitchcock and stuff at a young age. And MST. Three K, and that was it. As so many queer people, she just became my icon for a long time. You and I have seen her at conventions. I have read everything I can about her. I have read her autobiography. We've watched every special, every interview, every iteration of her. I've read every comic I can get of her, which will talk about that history. We have many of her autographs and her memorabilia, and I just am completely and utterly obsessed with Aleyra.
Rob: Yes.
Guido: And what is your background with our Mistress of the Dark?
Rob: Well, I'm a much bigger horror fan then you are. I came to Elvira really late. I think maybe it's because I'm so much younger and prettier than you. I mainly knew her as a spokesman, like you said, associated with Cores and all these other products. And I knew that she had these movies and knew she was on TV. You would see her on specials and pop up on Halloween episodes of sitcoms. But I had never watched her movie until I actually met you. So I just knew her as this figure from the but I think she always felt a little too. It's like you were saying your mom wouldn't let you see Dirty Dancing, but see, Alvaira, I think she was always a little too dangerous for me to see as a kid. Maybe that's just like Meanwhile.
Guido: You love the most exploitative horror movies that are the grossest things in the world that I won't watch. But maybe you just weren't watching those when you were younger, I guess.
Rob: Well, and I think really that was the power of her image where she was just such a striking image, where I think a lot of parents I don't remember my parents ever forbidding me from watching her, but I think it was a little taboo as opposed to a horror movie where someone's getting killed with a knife for some reason that was much more acceptable.
Guido: I think well, I think in her career, too, which we even listened to the audiobook of her autobiography after I read it. So I think you and I know a lot about her, but the late 90s, she was much more in the background and for a variety of reasons, I think. But I think the age difference between us is probably really important because Mistress of the Dark hit and I was into it. It was on HBO then I think by the time she lost her course spokesperson sponsorship in the mid ninety s. And then I think she faded away for a few years for mass audiences. And that might have been the time you were coming up. So that might be why.
Rob: And she's part of this grand tradition which I've now become obsessed with horror uh hosts. And I remember basically when I was growing up, there was her and on TNT was Joe Bob Bricks with Monster Michael.
Guido: Yeah, we just watched last night.
Rob: We just watched last night. He's now back on the air. So with the two of them and you would see Count Floyd from Scpv uh Reruns. And that was it because this phenomenon of horror host uh had gone completely away, whether it was huge in the 1960s and going back to the 50s with Vampire and Zachary. So her and Joe Bob were really the last remnants of this being in uh the mainstream popular culture.
Guido: Yeah. The other aspect I'd say in terms of our background is something we were talking about before we started recording. You and I both have a there's the queer draw for Elvira for a lot of people, which I think has to do with her camp mist and a lot of other things. But she's also one of those rare people who has a persona that is very uh hard to separate from the person, like a RuPaul, like a Pee wee Herman used to be. I think that got changed due to news when he was uh arrested. But RuPaul is another great example of someone who you and I both love and lots of people love. But that is a persona that Rue is doing much of the time, and we don't spend quite as much time with the person RuPaul Charles. We spend a lot of time with the character RuPaul. And Elvira is very much the same. I remember when I was younger, I thought it was an urban legend that she was this red headed woman named Cassandra Peterson. I did not think that was true. I thought she was black haired and Elvira. Obviously, I didn't think uh she was a witch or supernatural or anything like that. But I thought she was Elvira. I thought that was the person. So you and I tend to like people like that. Yeah.
Rob: Her and Pee Wee were both credited as themselves the character in this movie. And Pee Wee in that movie. Rue, of course, uses her own name. But as you said, there's a mix there. And yeah, it seems like it's something that has kind of died out. I think one person who comes to mind who just passed away was Gilbert Godfrey. Like that wasn't his real voice. But you never heard Gilbert ever.
Guido: Or Dangerfield Bobcat what's his name?
Rob: Yeah, Bobcat Golfweight as a director has become for so long in the was that that seems to be something that you don't really see. Maybe because now with social media, you have more insights and reality TV, you have more insight into people's work and behind the scenes features on DVDs. That stuff isn't really there anymore.
Guido: I'm sure there's a lot of reasons. But let's dig into these origins of our comic book Omniverse that we're exploring today.
Rob: Yes. We are going to knock on the door of a House of Mystery with today's origins of the story.
Speaker C: Right now on this very show, you're going to get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago.
Rob: I feel like if we weren't so lazy Guitar, we would be replacing all those sound clips with old classic horror movies to really get in the mood. Just imagine them.
Guido: Yeah. Everyone should imagine it because it's a great idea, but it's not happening. So just imagine it.
Rob: So we're going to talk about Elvira's long history, surprisingly long history. Yeah.
Guido: So before we get into the three issues we covered, let me give some story to Elvira. So she uh debuts, as I mentioned, in 1009. She starts on a local access network in La, as many do, starts to be distributed on VHS and a little bit more nationally syndicated and then really hits it when she starts to become an advertising spokesperson in the mid 80s. So 1985 comes around and she has her first foray into comics in a reboot of House of Mystery for DC. Elvira's House of Mystery. Her movie comes out in 87. So she has, you think, a bit of a boost there, at least for people like me. But the movie didn't do so well. So how's the mysteries canceled over the few years. There's a Marvel adaptation of her movie. It's pretty faithful adaptation. Great cover art by Joe Jusko. Wanted to be Glad Possessions is an autographed copy of that. Yes. Cover art by Joe. And then there's some stuff like we have a personality. Comics Presents. It's one of those biography comics that was coming out around the early 90s. There's an issue telling her story, and then the biggest moment, of course, in her comic book history is 1993. The Clay Pool series launches more on that when we get to that issue. But her Clay Pool series actually lasts for over ten years and 166 issues. So it is a huge run that ended up having a small print run in the end, very hard to find and costly issues. But that is really quite something, if you think about comics and runs of comics. Really something. We'll talk more about that. So then from the time that series ended in the mid August, she's not present in comics. There were rumors that there was going to be a new title in the early 2010s. It never happens. And then in 2018, Dynamite gets the license to Elvira, starts collaborating with her. We'll talk a lot about that. But since 2018. So for the last four years, Dynamite has been publishing a lot of Elvira books specials that the crowds fund and then a few an ongoing that then just spawns a bunch of miniseries, which is some of what we're talking about today. So she has quite a presence in comics for the last 35 years.
Rob: In some ways, it almost always felt like a throwback, too, to Bars, Carlos in the gold key comics and things like that, where there were these licensed figures, these real people, real characters that were licensed. And it seems like it was really popular in the don't know if it went later, but then she really seems like the one person that has stuck around in all these different decades as a whole character.
Guido: And I think we'll see the evolution in the three comics we read. We'll see why the first one might not have lasted very long while the second one lasted really long, and why the ones that we're reading right now are probably hopefully going to stick around, too. So I think we'll see that evolution. But you're right. Definitely. Her first foray which we can get into now is a throwback to the 50s.
Rob: Yes, totally. And that is Elvira's House of Mystery number one. And that's from Double D Comics. Oh, I'm sorry, DC Comics.
Guido: I was like, wait, you're making a mistake. But now I see what you did.
Rob: Little Alvira joke there. I get it from January 1986. And it's called Elvira's Quest. I wonder if that's a pun on Elf Quest.
Guido: It could be the font. I'd say in the issue. Looks like it could be. So this is written by Joey Cavalieri, penciled by Ron Wagner, inked by Bob OMG, colored by Liz um Baru, lettered by Kurt Hathaway, edited by Sal Amandola. This is a reboot uh of the Bronze, maybe Silver Age. I don't know a lot of the House of Mystery history at DC, but the pretty famous ECS Cryptkeeper esque host that has a host telling these different stories in the House of Mystery. And so this is a reboot of that series, and she is the host. So this is her first comic book appearance, which is why we read it today. But our focus was really in the wraparound and in her presence in the book and how that was written. There are three different stories.
Rob: I believe so, yeah, maybe four even.
Guido: I don't honestly remember. And we read it a few hours ago. But there are a bunch of totally standalone horror stories that are written by different people and have art by different people. And she is just in between each story, with one or two exceptions where she's on panel in the story. So we read it, though, because it's the introduction to her comic book voice and image. What do you think?
Rob: Well, right away I liked it a lot because I think Joey Cavaliere really did get her tone great. And I think it sets up the classic Alvaro thing of like she's being chased by a mob of people who want to run her out of town for being a witch or for being different. All the great stuff that's in the first movie, too.
Guido: Well, that's what's cool is this predates that movie. Now, this is the one series where I couldn't find a lot of backstory on her involvement. She owns Cassandra Peterson owns Elvira. So they had uh to work with her. And the other runs that we read today, she's very closely connected to, deeply involved in. And yeah, we have a lot of insight into that that will get to you. This one, I'm not as sure, but based on her, I'm guessing she had a lot of control over it. So maybe she had some of the ideas for the movie. It was filming obviously later the year this comes out. So perhaps that's why.
Rob: But I agree it foreshadows big haunted house that she basically stumbles into.
Guido: Like and then the town people. So in the wraparound story, she ends up flipping the townspeople with a magic perfume uh and they end up acting like the teenage kids in her movie who are obsessed with her and they ask for autograph. And so there are a lot of echoes even in the movie.
Rob: There's the love potion scene where they don't fall in love with Elvira, they fall in love with each other and also with a love potion.
Guido: Yeah. She might have had a lot of collaboration with Joey Cavalieri, I'm not sure, but I agree that Joey gets her voice perfectly. We both read a lot of Elvira comics over the years, but today we read a lot of them also. And it's really remarkable to me. Again, this is five years into this character. She's not the phenomenon that she is now. And still there's something so consistent from the first three panels he writes on this first page through to the stuff we read that is actually not even published yet being published next week that we'll get into. There's something so consistent about her voice, and he makes a body joke that got to find a way to duck them. They don't mean to use those pitchforks for a role in the hay that's on the second panel. And it's well tuned to like DC. Right? This is DC. It's meant to be a little family friendly. And I think Elvira is always pretty family friendly. She just likes to push that line. And I think it's great.
Rob: Yeah. And what's also really cool about this is it does have continuity with the older House of Mystery, where the old horror host Kane or the old Tripkeeper character is also in this. It's kind of part of the story. She sees his portrait on the wall, then she just starts to interact with him. So there is this lineage between the older House of Mystery and this new one. I'm kind of surprised that this only lasted eleven issues because she's really the kind and almost surprised that in her long history of comics, she's never gone back to being this Crypt Keeper horror host character.
Guido: Well, so I think part of it and this is going to be a little bit of a segue into the next one. But we can stay on this for a bit. But part of it is, of course, the challenge here is she's not a character in the stories, and that's what's mhm different. So while her persona that we know of her is a horror uh host, I think when you pick up a comic that's Elvira, you want her to be uh the main character. And what House of Mystery does is just make her the wrap around. And so while she has this great voice, these great one lines, and while this first issue has a little bit of a story going on, she's really relegated to the background. She gets to make a joke after each story that refers to the story. So very hard, host like. But I think I don't know why it got canceled for sure, but I know that most fans appreciate every other run. She is the character in the story. She is not the host of someone else's story.
Rob: Yeah. So let's make her the main character, because if DC was just dipping their toe into the Elvira pool next we're going to jump into the deep end of the Clay Pool, and that is Elvira, mistress of the Dark issue number one uh from Clay Pool. And that's from May 1993. And it has two stories in it, Play or Pay and a big Hand for a little lady, part one.
Guido: All right. So the first story is scripted by Paul Deeney, penciled by James Fry, inked by Terry Austin, lettered by Kevin Cunningham, and the second story is written by Joe Duffy, pencil by Dan Spiegel, who also does the inks and lettered by Carrie Spiegel, the reason I emphasize those names before I get into some of the background on Claypool. A little is Paul Denny goes on to create Harley Quinn. So two years after this. So there is a lot of proto Harley Quinn. I'd say totally. Terry Austin is one of the most famous comic book artists. And then Joe Duffy Cocreated Power Pack. Just huge. Eighty s, ninety s writer who's still writing, but just known for a lot of cool creations in the especially, again, Power Pack. So the caliber of people Claypool used to get. And so before we get into the issue, Claypool Comics has founded the year this title launches. So 93, they're most known for probably this title. They have a few other little titles that like Peter David had a story there and Steve English Hart had a story there. So a few other major people there, but they didn't last very long, in fact, primarily. So the company apparently published just over 300 issues. Elvira was 166 issues. So the majority of their output was really Elvira. And in 2007, that ends with issue 166 of Elvira. And apparently it had something to do with diamond. The print run was too low. I think diamond wouldn't carry it anymore. And so it ended up with a cancelation. So Claypool is an interesting small company based in New Jersey where you and I are also from and mhm sadly doesn't exist anymore. We'll get into where that license ended up, but that's a little background on Claypool. Uh and then this series just before we dive in because this is such cool history. In addition to the names of people who are involved in this first one, I mean, Kurt Busyak, Marie Severin, Fred Hembeck, Frank Straum, huge people worked on this run of Elvira. This is some of the most famous Legends of comics who are writing Elvira Mistress of the Dark Comics for Claypool. So it is such a cool run. It was just reprinted finally for the first time ever by Dynamite. So they got the license to the Claypool Comics and published a first volume omnibus of the first 20, uh three or 25 issues. Anyway, that's the backstory on Claypool. What did you think of the first story that makes Elvira the lead character?
Rob: Yeah, I like this a lot, too. I think here is where we really see Elvira, the character that we know as the uh horror host. And she's such an interesting character because she only popped up in these little segments on her TV show. So I'm always kind of thinking, like so much is connected to really the start of the Mistress of the Dark movie where she is working at this dinky TV station and is hosting movies. And that's so much of what then you see in this series and in the next series that we know is autobiographical.
Guido: We know from the memoir that stuff in the movie, which actually shows up a little bit in this first story where they dropped the weather map down before she was even done recording all of that happened to her. So it's uh fun to see that it essentially makes this comic a little bit autobiographical even, or I guess biographical since she wasn't scripting. And that's cool.
Rob: Yeah. And like you were saying, there is a lot of similarities to the Harley Quinn character in that she is this anarchic character, but that she also takes no guff from the men in her life.
Guido: She's a badass, sexy woman.
Rob: Yeah. And the men are always trying to control her, take her money, all these kind of other things. But she really always is putting her foot down. But at the same time, it's still also lusting after. Man is always fantasizing that especially in the second story, the Joe Duffy story, that the person who is her admirer is going to be rich and successful and hot.
Guido: So horrendous clown.
Rob: Yes, horrendous clown. They were able to have it both ways, really, with her being like this super strong, confident woman, but also kind of being wanting a rich punk guy almost in TV, I think of like Blanchevaro on Golden Girls, someone who's able to be like a powerful woman but also be super horny for men all the time at the same time.
Guido: Yeah. For sure. Part of the DNA of Elvira is empowerment through sexuality, which is very cool. And again, I think that has to do with some of why there's a large queer following forward because that's really important for sexually marginalized communities. But yeah, I think all of that is here. And so this series, they actually collaborated mostly with her then husband, who was also her then agent. So he worked with Paul Denny and actually Mark Evanier, who is a very famous writer editor in comics. And that was because they were both West Coast based and they worked primarily with Mark Pearson, who helped them break story. And Cassandra would then work through Mark and then it would get over to the writer through.
Rob: And like I said to you, I'm pretty sure Mark is drawn on panel as one of the assistance production assistants in the Joe Duffy story.
Guido: There are dozens of references in every issue. It's one of the things I think when we get into the multiverse, we'll be talking also a little bit about why she lends herself so much to a meta story. But for sure that's here there are references to famous Hollywood people. There's reference in a later issue to Zacherlee, another horror host that you really love. Even at one point she's watching Batman the Animated Series and then has like a parody Batman, and they actually tease about lawyers. And that's in a later issue of this clay pool run. So there's so much with her and parody and satire and also just homage in a lot of ways, I think, to the classic Hollywood stuff. And all of that is here in both Joe Duffy's story, which is also a little bit homage, I think, too. Like Big Trouble in Little Tina. It seems like with the font of the heading and then Paul Denny's story. Definitely.
Rob: Yeah. And I was thinking, too, one thing that works because so much of her is rooted in old Hollywood and universal horror and things like that is these are in black and white. So it gives it that kind of timely, almost older quality to it. Her even as a character, she is black and white. Right. Because she's got white skin in the black dress. What did you think of the art here being this monochromatic?
Guido: Yes, I think you're right that it works really well. There's also almost a cartoony but sexy element to it, which I think works also for depictions of her because she is very like cheesecake, and that is essentially cartoon, just writ real. And so this does a good job of that. I mean, at times there will be a hyperrealistic drawing in some of these issues, but that tends to be to then contrast to the cartoony world that they've placed her in here. So mhm I hope that Dynamite keeps collecting it, because I think it's a fantastic run. And I've been trying to collect the issues for years, and they are, as I mentioned, very hard to come by. And I really want to see the rest of the storytelling in this run because it's so fun. It's surreal, um supernatural. But with her grounded in her real character as a horror host and breaking the fourth wall a bit and doing all that stuff that we love. And that I think continues in her next comic book.
Rob: Yes, iteration, not to give ourselves some deja vu, but the next comic is also called A Vira Mistress of the Dark. And not to give ourselves some deja vu, but the next comic is also called a Vira Mister. So the dark.
Guido: Joke. Good job.
Rob: That is from the previously mentioned Dynamite. And we're going pretty recent now, jumping all the way to July 2018 with the fabulously titled Time Scream Chapter one.
Guido: All right, so this is scripted by David Avaloni, who we have a lot more to say about later, penciled by David Acosta, who also did the ink colored by Andrew Cobalt and lettered by Taylor Esposito. As mentioned earlier, this is the launch into her Dynamite Time, which continues through to today. And it's not a hugely prolific output, I think, especially perhaps during the pandemic. The main titles sort of didn't come back for a while, and then some tie in miniseries kept happening. And as I mentioned, they've crowdfunded a few issues. A really clever one during the pandemic called Omega Man, one called The Wrath of Con. That's actually about Comic cons. And then there's a forthcoming one called The Death of Elvira. So Dynamites doing a good deal with the license. And David Avaloni is the almost exclusive writer of all of these stories, and we're really excited. I'm going to reveal it now and remind everyone when we get to the next issue. Our next episode is an extensive interview with David. We had a great time with him recently, and he talks about everything from his career to constructing a metastory to constructing a multiverse, and lots of detail on Alvaira, including how Cassandra works and what she's approved or disapproved in the book. So we are so excited to share that episode next week. But for now, what did you think of David's relaunch of Elvira with this issue?
Rob: Uh i think this is as close to perfect as you can get in terms of hitting the Elvira voice and also hitting all the check marks that we want from Alvara, where there's some fourth wall breaking is uh rooted a lot in her. It's also rooted in the past as well. Thinking about haunted Hills, how that's like her thrown into a Roger Corman horror movie?
Guido: Yeah. So let me jump in there and explain that this issue launches what becomes time travel for her. She's not yet multiversal. She has a coffin. That when she gets into it, she gets pulled through time. And this first issue has her encounter the Shelleys, and then at the end, the cliffhanger is that she's going to encounter Edgar Allan Poe. And Meanwhile, Lord Vlad Dracula is on her tail and uh tracking her through time.
Rob: Yeah. To me, this is what it would be. And this is I guess the amazing thing about comics is this is to what I think Adele viral TV show or movie would be. But you need like a huge giant budget jumping through time and there's all these giant sets. And that's what I think is so amazing about comics is like you can basically have that cinematic feel to it, but on a fraction of the budget well.
Guido: And we learned a lot from David, who worked in Hollywood, worked in Hollywood, still in a lot of roles on a lot of different movie sets as written for TV. So I think that influence shows up in his storytelling. And then in a little bit we'll talk about the way it shows up explicitly. But I agree with all of that. I love the Claypole series, too. But I think that David took her voice to the next level and tells an ongoing story which the Claypool series doesn't really do and brings in, like you said, the horror elements which are really important to her character, but everything is funny. And again, there's this constant fourth wall breaking, which is a really important aspect of her character. Even she references the audience of the comic at times.
Rob: Yes. She talks about variant covers, which is how often when do you ever see a character talk about varying covers, but it feels Dynamite.
Guido: Does a lot of them.
Rob: It's exactly what you kind of picture from Elvira in her movies as well. That little wink at the audience.
Guido: Yeah. And it's fun, too, to see here in the early stuff, since it's episodic uclvira, sort of moving from story to story. This is so cool that there's this explicitly let's take this character and actually transport her through different stories, in this case, all historical fiction and real people throughout history. But it's neat that this is the start of where we're going with our next issue in our alternate universe where Elvira again, there's something about this character uh that lends itself to this meta narrative. And once it does that, you can start to bring in time travel or multiverse really organically. And we talked a little bit again before recording, why do you think she as a character is so aligned with that kind of storytelling?
Rob: I think it's exactly what we were saying earlier where the line between Elvira as a character and Elvira as a three dimensional human being that walked the Earth.
Guido: Also known as Cassandra.
Rob: Also known as Cassandra Peterson, is so thinly veiled. So for years now, Cassandra is often usually appearing at Cons as Cassandra, but for many years she was only appearing at Cons as Elvira. There's not too many other people are like that. Actually. Joe Bob Briggs is another one, because Joe Bob, he is another persona.
Guido: One that we didn't mention is John Bloom.
Rob: A story to journalist.
Guido: Right. Investigative journalist who's written books that are being adapted into HBO miniseries now, but has this whole persona of like a Texan down home on the Ranch, uh beer drinking guy who loves horror movies at the drive in.
Rob: I think with both of them, too, they're real personality. I think there's a lot of from reading or listening to her autobiography, there's a lot of that Valley girl, she's from Kansas, but there's a lot of that quality. And she was a Vegas show girl in the actual Cassandra, and there's a lot of that in Elvira. So it becomes very thin. And that's why I think it's so great for her to be this multiverse, fourth wall breaking character. What do you think? Why do you think she's so great for that?
Guido: I think that's the main reason is that blurred line we have in terms of is she real, is she not? Where does she end and the character begin? But the other aspects, I think, is camp. I think she's very campy, and I don't want to go down an academic elitist rabbit hole of defining what camp is because to me, it's like porn, and I just know it when I see it. But I think there's something about camping because campy humor and camp has something self referential in it. So maybe it's a precursor or a foundation or maybe it's just bound up in meta textual narrative. And so I think because she's so camp, she's wink, nudge, she's in on the joke with the audience. And once you break that fourth wall, I guess you can imagine. We've talked about this in some of our more recent creator interviews, too, like with Joe Glass or with Kerry Harris. The way that creators who grew up in fan fiction, creators who have diverse perspectives and stories to tell the multiverse lends itself to that because you can see pulling stories through in universes or boxes in ways that weren't done before. And I think her character lends itself to that because, again, she's breaking the fourth wall. So you can sort of see this is fun. What if I transplant this funny character into a different setting and maybe the fish out of water thing is something else too then because she's a good fish out of water. So are you ready to go? I don't want to spoil how she travels through the multiverse. So why don't we travel into the coffin and time uh travel with her?
Rob: Exactly.
Guido: Yeah.
Rob: We'll jump into that coffin and move into the world where we are going to be exploring Multiversity. Mhm i am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question what if? And as we mentioned at the top today, we are asking the question, what if Elvira entered a multiverse of horror movie worlds? And this is a fabulous series. You should read all of it. But today we're going to be discussing the last issue of it and the springboard for an forthcoming series. And this is Alvara meets Vincent Price, issue number five from March 2022. Next from Dynamite Comics. And this is chapter five, Final Girl Loft.
Guido: So the story is by David Avaloni. The art is by Juan Samu. Colors are by Walter Pereiria. Letters are by Taylor Esprizo with Elizabeth Charlotte. And this is edited by Joseph Rybant. As you mentioned, this is a miniseries. This is the fifth and final issue, though it continues into something else that we'll talk about shortly. And this is the most recent up until what we're going to talk about miniseries of her. So in this miniseries, the first four issues, she encounters Vincent Price's ghost. And there's already a lot of meta stuff going on in that. Obviously, there's great references to Vincent Price, who I want you to tell us about in just a moment. But to finish the summary of where the miniseries starts us off, his ghost and her go through this movie set that actually is based on true history. So it's a really cool thing to learn about in terms of a movie that never got made and whether or not it existed and the myths around it. So it's a cool series. And then actually in the opening of this issue and David told us in our interview, which uh again is next week's episode, he was asked by Dynamite to do a fifth issue. And he had planned the story wrap for four and decided in the fifth issue, wait a second, this character can be transported through the multiverse. And so her and Vincent discover the legendary remote control of Federico Fellini and discover that with that remote, they can actually go into the worlds, the realities of movies. Before we start talking about all that, who is Vincent Price?
Rob: I'm so glad you asked. Yeah. Vincent Price, actor in general, bond beyond uh real rock on tour.
Guido: I think we can say this is a lot of non English words that you're throwing around here. He liked his art and he was fancy.
Rob: Yes, exactly. But he was born in 1911, died in 1993. The first thing I ever knew Vincent Price, from which I'm guessing he might be the first thing you knew him from is Edward Scissorhands, where he creates. No, no.
Guido: My mother loved The Tingler and William Castle movies.
Rob: Uh william Castle. Yeah. But yeah, he creates Edward Scissor hands in that. That's one of his last movies. But before then, he was really especially known for the Roger Corman, Eggernell and Poe movies in the 60s. Right. Yeah. In the grew up definitely watching Pit in the Pendulum. But there's also The Fall of the House um of Usher and Mask of the Red Death. Um and then he's in some serious movies as well. They're not all strictly horror. He's actually in The Ten Commandments, one movie that a lot of people watch every single year. He's in that. And yeah, we actually own a few books that he from his library.
Guido: That's true.
Rob: From his library because he was also this huge art collector. He wrote several cookbooks, and that's what I mean. He was kind of this Cookie character, which I think David really taps into in the series.
Guido: You didn't mention, I'd say his prize is two most famous movies. I think our House on Haunted Hill. Is that a William Castle?
Rob: That's William Castle and is on my Cassandra's favorite movie, House on Haunted Hill.
Guido: And then House of Wax also. Is that William Castle?
Rob: Don't know. Off the top of my head.
Guido: I think it is, yeah. And those are from the 50s. Those are a little earlier, I'd say, than the Corman. Right. House on Hunted Hill definitely is.
Rob: Yeah. Peter of Blood, one of my favorites of his as well.
Guido: That's in the 70s. Right. So he had a long career and it varied.
Rob: And for the most part, he has some really super serious movies like Witchfinder General. But for the most part, I think one of the reasons why he's been embraced today and very similar why he's embraced by Alvira. There's a big camp factor to him. A lot of people in comic book world might know him also as Egg Head from uh the Batman 66.
Guido: That's important detail. Yeah.
Rob: And his whole kind of persona has a little bit of that. Like Alvara, there's always a little in many of his roles. Not again, all of his roles. But there's often that little wink at the camera. It's always like Uncle Vincent, who's in there, not just Roderick Usher. There's that little wink at the camera.
Guido: Well, an Uncle Vinny is Elvira's uncle from Mistress of the Dark, and that is um named after Vincent uh Price.
Rob: They wanted Vincent Price to play that role, but they couldn't afford them.
Guido: That makes a lot of sense. So, yeah, mashing them together makes a ton of sense. And then having that be what launches her into the multiverse also makes a lot of sense real quick. The legendary remote control of Federico Fellini. I mean, I am not a Cinema file, a Cine file in that way. But of course, this is the really famous Italian director and screenwriter who I think Eight and a half and Lodgella Vidara's most famous movies.
Rob: Yeah. And if you remember from her biography, her autobiography, Cassandra was actually in a Fellini film.
Guido: That's right. I wonder if David knew that when he wrote the remote control selenium as her multiversal. Well, I guess we know that he works closely with Cassandra, actually to break the stories. Uh so. Yeah, which you can hear more about next week when he's on with us. But back mhm to Elvira meets Vincent Price, issue number five, her entry into the multiverse. What did you think?
Rob: Oh, yeah, this is great. It's really fun. And this is kind of almost like you were saying it's kind of a backdoor pilot to the next series.
Guido: Right? It is, which I don't want to talk about yet.
Rob: But it doesn't have much to do with issues one through four, which, as you said, is this kind of great.
Guido: It's like an epilogue.
Rob: Talk about this forgotten film. And again, this is kind of its own story, kind of starting this kind of talk about how these movies kind of creep into the world. One thing it kind of reminds me of is some of the logic that actually West Craven sets up with. Uh i don't know if you remember the movie New Nightmare, where in that movie they're setting up that they have to create Freddy Krueger movies in order to keep uh the real Freddie Krueger in his own dimension. And that's like something kind of here where the horror movies are starting to creep into our reality.
Guido: Well, that's so cool. So if you are going to send Elvira into a multiverse, of course it would be a multiverse of horror movies. It's a very straightforward but genius idea of how to have her be in the multiverse. Uh you could have done anything right. We already had her travel through time, but in terms of a multiverse, you could have had her encounter fictional characters from horror. You could have had all these things happen. But duh movies. So it makes so much sense. And it's fun in that one. I mean, in Vincent Price Five, there is a spoof of a very real and troubling story of a director. And I'm not going to spoil it or draw or connect the dots here, but it is definitely based on a true story in this issue, her first multiverseal encounter. I like that. The director that she encounters, she then abandons in his own movie world. He's trapped there now, which is good where he should be because she gets the remote and then leaves.
Rob: Yeah. It makes sense that the person who's the antagonist and starting this off is this asshole man too, because that's so much of what Elvira the character is constantly battling against this toxic masculinity from the movie, um from the movie Mistress of the Dark through some of the other comics that we saw, the Claypool comics especially. So it just makes sense. And then it also makes sense that her guide in this is Vincent Price, who was bisexual. And her guide in one of David's other series is the Drag Queen Divine. So uh there are these strong male allies that are outside the world of this toxic masculinity.
Guido: That's true, right? I love it. It's a great setup for Elvira being a multiversal Explorer. And if we're ready to move on, this issue ends on a cliffhanger because she uses the remote and discovers she's in a world of black and white and she's in front of Blocks Motel. What is Blocks Motel, Rob? Why is it called that? Isn't it the Baits Hotel?
Rob: It is. But Robert Block wrote the novel Psycho, so there's a nice little reference to him there.
Guido: Alright, so this issue leads us into what we're going to be covering in our third and final segment as we talk about the future.
Rob: Yes, I just found out there are some vacancies available in uh oh.
Guido: I thought you were going to make a Felini remote joke. Come on.
Rob: Just play their music. Will the future you describe be averted? So guitar. Usually I ask you, how did you come up with this list? But today I'll ask you just what are we reading? What's next?
Guido: Um well, I will explain how I came up with this list. So one of our rules in uh coming up with the list for the third segment is that it's something that follows the multiverse that we first encounter. Obviously, the multiverse broke open for Elvira just two months ago, so there is not much. What's that?
Rob: Yeah, uh March 2022.
Guido: There's not much that follows except the direct continuation. The direct continuation is Elvira in Horror Land, a mini series that is not out yet. But uh because we had the incredible opportunity to talk to David Avaloni, the writer, on an episode that will be out next week, we got to see a preview copy of this first issue and read it. So we're going to talk about it without spoiling it. But we are going to talk a little bit about what it means for the future of Elvira in the multiverse. So tell us about the issue.
Rob: Yes. So in this issue, Alvara, as we said, is brought into the uh end. So today we uh are going to talk about Elvira in Harlem, issue number one from Dynamite Comics. And yes, it's not out yet, but it will be out in May 2022. And this is entitled Chapter One, Block Party B-L-O-C-H.
Guido: It's written by David Avaloni, art by Sylvia California, letters by Taylor Esposito. And that's all the information I have because there was no other information in the solicitation or on the proof copy we read. But why don't you continue the summary you had started before the credits.
Rob: Yes. So basically, as you said, Elvira is brought into the world of Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho and encounters this version uh of Norman Bates and Marion Cranes. Other names are slightly changed here in this world. And like so many of what we're seeing in her previous series, it really blends the world between the movie being in the movie world and also being in the quote unquote movie world. I don't know how to say that, but you're both in a movie and in the production and the production. Exactly. Thank you.
Guido: Yeah. Again, we're not going to spoil anything, but yes, there are a lot of layers to this narrative. There are a lot of layers to this multiverse. So it's very cool and what the series is going to be. We only read the first issue, but the rest, a few more have been Solicited and David shared a bit more about them on next week's episode. They are each going to bring her into a different movie. So this first one, as you mentioned, is Psycho. Then we have already solicited The Shining and Alien and then he reveals on the episode what a few of the other movies that we see are going to be, or at least one of them. So it's a really cool setup. I think it's a miniseries. I think he told us it's a miniseries. I think it's listed as a miniseries. But gosh, it could go on forever. You and I were talking earlier about what movies do we wish she would visit? I mean, again, this setup is so strong and this first issue. Go get it. It is not out yet, but when it comes out, which if you're listening to this episode, the week that we release this episode, Alvarin Harley number one is out next week, which is also when our interview with David will be out. So you can hopefully still order a copy. The order cut off has passed, but hopefully your local store can still get you a copy. It's so fun. And if you're not into Elvira, but you're into horror movies.
Rob: You need this totally.
Guido: And if you're not into horror movies and not into Alvara, but you're into meta textual narratives and fourth wall breaking jokes and a multiverse, uh you also should get this. I mean, there are a lot of reasons to enjoy this story and the first issue is just awesome. I mean, what do you want to say about it without us spoiling where it goes?
Rob: I'll say too that I think not just with this issue, but with David's writing in general, unlike some of the DC, and I think to a lesser extent to Clay Pool, David's able to also make her a little dirtier. And Randier too, like she's a little bit more of the Alvira, I think from a local California cable station where not a lot of people were watching and you could uh make a few more off color jokes. And David talked a little bit about that. He does his interview. So it's great. It's still suitable for everyone. Uh and that's the great thing about Elvira. Everything is said between the lines. But I think if you're reading The House of Mystery or the Claypool and you're going, oh, this is a little more maybe family friendly than my idea of Alvara. I think what David really gets into in this is like, okay, now this is the Alvira, like from the Eighties that we all remember. And that's what one of the many things that is so fun about this.
Guido: Yeah, that and the other thing I'd say, which is something you and I love being why we do this podcast, being like info um mania nerds about references and what everything is connected to. Uh this book could easily have an annotated edition, totally, because it references stuff about the production and about the movie and about the actors and about the characters that if you don't know it's okay because you can still enjoy it completely. But once you start to scratch the surface, you can actually learn a lot about the history of these movies or the story within these movies. And that's a really neat element. I think that's one of the things we've seen with sometimes the early what if when they would actually cite the early issues that they were referencing and they stopped doing that pretty quickly. I think that Editor's notes to previous issues went away and was not a very popular thing, but it's something I love seeing or in the Amalgam universe, seeing the fake references to other issues. Those are the things that you and I love and why we do this show. So to have that playing out with real histories or stories that are in our popular culture and we all know a bit of is a really cool element of her multiversal exploration. Any final thoughts? Questions mhm about the impact of this?
Rob: I just think with this character in general, like we were saying, she can go on forever as a character in one medium or another. So if it's not live action and Cassandra that we love, we want to see Cassandra on screen for as long as she wants to do it. I think what's so great about this character is you can put her in all these different worlds. In Inferno, she's going David Avaloni's, Inferno for Dynamite, she goes through Dante's Circle of Hell. And in the first series we were talking about, she meets all these horror luminaries from all different times here. Now in Elvira in Harland, she's going into the movies themselves and really it's limitless. After that, we could see Elvira in space. Wherever she wants to go is perfect.
Guido: Well, before we wrap, then let's say what movie do you want her to visit? We talked about this earlier.
Rob: Well, the one that came first to mind for me would be really into Stewart Gordon's Reanimator and really have her tangle with Jeffrey Combs Herbert West. Because both Reanimator and Elvira have that same sense of humor. It's horror, it's humor. There's sex involved. So I think that would be a great combination. And Lovecraft, which we know David Avaloni is also very interested in that pulp world.
Guido: So I suggested that she could visit army of darkness, which Dynamite has the license too. Maybe that will happen because her and Bruce Campbell are a good pair. But now that I think about it, I do want this series to continue forever. But I would love two movies that we both love and would be cool worlds for her to visit. I think it'd be so fun to drop her in the Blair witch project.
Rob: Oh, yeah.
Guido: Totally.
Rob: Oh, my gosh.
Guido: I would also love her in scream. She needs to be in scream.
Rob: Yeah.
Guido: So I hope this series has a sequel if it's a miniseries or goes on forever. And we can see Elvira in the Blair Ridge project and Elvira in scream.
Rob: Both of those are excellent choices. Uh maybe they'll time the screen. They should time the screen series for when. Yeah, screen six comes out in 2023. Perfect timing.
Guido: So that's a wrap.
Rob: Um i have been Guido and I have been Rob, thank you so much for listening.
Guido: And the reading list is in the show notes. You can follow us. Please follow us on Twitter, our only social media at Deer Watchers and leave a review wherever you listen to podcast.
Rob: If you send us an image of that review, we will send you a stick and we will be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.
Guido: And in the meantime, in the words of Elvira unpleasant dreams.