Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

Rob: Welcome to Dear Watchers, a comic book omniverse podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.
Guido: We are traveling through the storylines before and after that inspired or took inspiration from this week's amazing alternate universe. And your watchers on this journey are.
Rob: Me Kiddo and me um rah blood demonologist. That'll make more sense in a little bit. Or maybe not. Who knows your meaning of sense? But we are joined by our very special guest member of the council of Watchers. It's ethan of makemine amalgam on twitter.
Ethan: How are you? Glad to be back.
Guido: Welcome back.
Ethan: Glad to be back to talk about another Amalgam issue.
Rob: Yes, we could not have done this issue without you, our resident, a lot.
Guido: Of experts, but I doubt you have answers either, because I have a feeling these are unanswerable.
Ethan: There's a point in the Amalgam book we covered that. I always am like, okay, I love this stuff, but you lost me here, and we'll get to that. I'm, uh, like, why? It's too much.
Guido: Definitely.
Rob: Yeah. I'll say not just the Amalgam, but I'll say every book we are covering today is weird in its own way. And I think, in a sense, that no group of comics we've covered on this podcast has been collectively weird so far.
Ethan: They should make a trade paperback. They should make a trade paperback of all of these issues just in our.
Guido: Reading or yes, of everything we read today. It is a great reading list. I'm excited to peel back these layers.
Rob: But before we peel those layers, what's new in our world? I know we're not at San Diego Comic Con. We're recording this while we're definitely getting Twitter jealous.
Guido: Three of us wish we were there. But what's new? I mean, last week's episode, while we missed Ethan, who wasn't able to join us for our fun night of games, it was a really fun episode. So if people haven't listened to, they should go back, because the day that this episode is out is the last day to enter the contest that's described in that episode. So if you want to enter to win a group, uh, of what if issues, a few DC Else worlds, trade paperbacks, hardcovers, or some Marvel multiverse toys, you can get the instructions in our last week's episode. So that's episode 54, our big anniversary episode. You can listen for instructions, and the last day to enter is the day that this episode comes out, which is Monday, whatever day that is, july 25.
Rob: And if you're curious what comic book podcaster would quote munch on Swamp Things tuber, then you have to just give that podcast to listen and find out.
Ethan: The clue is they're at they're at the con.
Guido: Yes, they are. They're reporting from San Diego. Comic Con.
Rob: Awesome. Yeah. So check that out. Super excited then, to dive into today. But before we get into our alternate universe, ethan, I know you've been on the podcast before, but we still want to learn a little something about you.
Guido: Yeah, we want our listeners to know more about who Ethan is. So tell us, Ethan, if you could dream up any either what if Universe or Amalgamated Character or whatever, what would it be?
Ethan: Well, first I'll do both. The, uh, amalgamated character I've always wanted heckler and slapstick.
Guido: Who is this?
Ethan: Slapstick is this clown like character from Marvel who's basically he's basically Freakazoid from like two years before freakoid. Um, and then his name would be Hectic.
Guido: Oh, that is perfect.
Ethan: And Amalgam or my what if universe would be what if the Marvel Universe and the distinguished competition played nice and they all went to a Josie and the Pussycats concert?
Guido: You know, that it's funny because having read some of those Archie Universe mashup issues they do, like Archie meets the B stuff. I feel like they always end up at a concert. So it seems like you've created an Archie mashup issue with Marvel and DC, which is perfect.
Ethan: Uh, totally. Archie's met the Punisher and DC reimagined the MLJ heroes twice. One of which was the Impact imprint from the early ninety s. Right. And then the other one was like in late two thousand s. And I think they even tried integrating some of those characters into the DC Universe proper. But it was a lot grittier than the Impact books. I think the Impact books are super whimsical and fun. Especially the fly with Mike paraback's art.
Guido: I never read any of those, though I do sometimes fish them out of dollar bins just in case I want to read them.
Ethan: They are super easy to find. The, um, most expensive ones. And by expensive, I mean like maybe $3 a book are the black hood ones, but that's probably because of his prominence on Riverdale.
Guido: Yeah.
Rob: Wow. Yeah, I had that fly growing up and you see those in every dollar bin ever. And I was thinking maybe you could have Spawn as the bouncer at the Rock Club. That way you get image in there as well. Spawn and haunt big comic houses in there.
Guido: I thought this is going to be hard to pull off to begin with, but now I don't think this is ever going to happen. That was probably true even without Solar.
Rob: Uh, yes, while we wait for that once in a lifetime mashup. In the meantime, thank you for joining us. And after a quick summary of our alternate Earth we are visiting. We have origins of the story, discovering what inspired this other reality, exploring multiversity, diving deeper into our alternate universe, and finally pondering possibilities. Examining the impact and what's solid or coming in the future. And with that, dear Watchers, welcome to episode 55 and let's check out what's happening in the multiverse with today's alternate universe. And today we are asking the question what if Etragan. The demon, the flash. Both Jay Garrick and Mary Allen, johnny Blaze and Ghost Rider amalgamated into one character.
Guido: I love that question.
Rob: If that sounds like too much.
Ethan: It is.
Guido: So this is marvel. Designated Earth 9602 our Amalgam universe. And I'm going to forego a summary of this issue because it has so much going on and so much we need to talk about that we're just going to unpack it as an alternate universe when we get into that site.
Ethan: The best weekend.
Guido: Everything you need to know. Yeah, exactly. Everything you need to know is bound up in that what if question that we constructed. And you can also check out some of our past episodes to get some back information, too. So, for example, episode 14 was our first foray with Ghost Rider. What if he was a villain and we looked at his origin in depth then for Amalgam, ethan joined us on our first foray into that in episode 36. So we have lots of backstory on Amalgam and the Marvel DC shared universe. And then we looked at Doctor Strange fate in episode 44. So that's some way to get some background. But we'll get into this version of Earth Nine, Six or two or this segment of it in more detail in just a few minutes.
Rob: And speaking of backgrounds, we've got three characters here that we're going to be discussing. And let's go into our background with these characters. So we've got the Flash, Ghost writer, and the demon, and of course, also kind of the Amalgam universe as a whole. So, Ethan, starting with you, what's your background with those three characters and of course, with the algorithm universe?
Ethan: Well, I would say that my experience, uh, with these three characters, uh, is mostly with Flash and Ghost Rider, especially Flash. Definitely Flash first. He was one of the first DC heroes, uh, other than Batman that I knew about when I was younger. Ghost Rider a little later. And I always like to think of him as like, the oddball in all of the teams that he's in, be it the New Fantastic, uh, Four or the Champions, et cetera. And it wasn't actually until the Batman Brave and the Bold cartoon came out that I really learned about, etching.
Speaker UNK: Interesting.
Rob: Yes. And of course, your Twitter handle is make find Amalgam memory too. A little bit about your background with Amalgam.
Ethan: My background with Amalgam is wild because, um, basically I was playing the Arkham Asylum uh, game when it came out, and I saw that people were making custom costumes for Batman and one of them was Dark Claw. And I had no idea what that was. And I looked it up and then I fell down the rabbit hole and have been obsessed ever since.
Guido: Um, here we are.
Rob: What about you, Guido, with these three characters and the Amalgamverse?
Guido: So, as our listeners know, I tend to read all comic events. So I'd say Flash and Ghost Rider. I really only know from events so I know the Flash because I love Crisis on Infinite Earth. I did read Jeff John's rebirth of Barry Allen. I never read much of the Wally West. I've read it more recently. I've really enjoyed a recent run that was leading into Dark Crisis right now. So outside of events, I don't know the Flash watched the TV show for a few years. Ghost Rider, I don't know outside of events at all in the Marvel universe, was never a big fan. And outside of our exploring him in our podcast, episode 14, The Demon, etchergan. I know only through Justice League Dark and Shadow packed the sort of proto Justice League Dark I really liked those titles, even though they were a lot of magic, which I'm not always the biggest fan of in comics. They had a great sense of humor. So I knew the demon atrogan from that. So I was never a big fan of the font that's used for his lettering.
Rob: I agree. I couldn't even tell what I had to reread some of them because I was like, what is this saying?
Guido: And then I never liked reading him in rhyme. I don't hear voices when I read comics in my head, I just internalize the words. So I think a Rhyming character doesn't work so well for that. And then Amalgam, as we've talked about, I read as it came out, loved it, have cherished it ever since. But really, this is my first time diving deep into it.
Rob: Rob so with the Flash, I have these memories that are both hazy and clear at the same time of watching the John Wesley Ship show, especially the episodes with the Trickster because I always love the Trickster. But I never really read the Flash comics. But I remember that TV show, sitting on my mom's bed watching that and then like, you gito watch some of the Grant Gustin show but kind of gave up on it at some point. Ghost Rider, I just knew there was a kid in the 90s reading comics because I think Ghost Rider was everywhere. He was the he was a very Nineties character, even though he predates the 90s. But I never read him either until really we dived into him for this podcast. The Demon, I had no idea who he was. I knew the look of him. Guido said his name and he's the one that rhymes. I said, oh, that means nothing to me. I've never read him. I had no idea what his name was. I only knew that look, that very Jack Curvy look. And with Amalgam, I think all of us got it when it was coming out or not like you. But then, like all of us, I think we came obsessed with it and actually liked it in some ways more than Marvel and DC, like those amalgamated characters even better. So I think we're all coming at it with these aren't the characters that we super love. And a lot of these characters we are coming at as novices, I would say. So with that, let's dive into our very complicated origins of the story.
Guido: Right now, on this very show, you're going to get the answer to all your questions.
Rob: Our amazing story begins a few years ago. So we've, uh, got three origins we're going to cover today. We're going to kind of do them all in one big clump together.
Guido: Ethan said one amalgam, which I love before we started recording. You can point it out.
Rob: Exactly. So first up, we have showcase number four from October 1019 56, and that is entitled Mystery of the Human Thunderbolt.
Guido: And this is the Origin of Barry Allen written by Robert Cangger pencil by Carmen and Fatino. Inked by Joe Kubert lettered by Gasper Saladino edited by Julie Schwartz.
Rob: Next up is Marvel Spotlight number five. That is from August 1972, and it's entitled simply Ghostwriter.
Guido: This is the origin of Ghostwriter Johnny Blaze, written by Gray Friedrich, penciled by Mike Plug, who also did the inks and colors lettered by John Costa, edited by Stanley and Roy Thomas.
Rob: And funny enough, just one month later, we're introduced to the demon number one from September 1972. And that is unleash. The one who waits.
Guido: This is written in pencil by Jack Kirby, inked by Mike Royer, who also did the letters and edited by Jack Kirby. And obviously, we read all three of these as the origins of the three primary characters that are amalgamated in our speed demon. So where do we want to start? Who wants to start us off?
Ethan: I'll start, um, with flash.
Guido: Go for it.
Ethan: It makes me want to read more Flash. Um, I just was reading it. I was like, this is really fun. I forgot how fun Flash was. But then when Turtle Man showed up, or the Turtle or whatever they call him, because there's like two versions, I was getting flashbacks to Smallville from before. We actually got real costumes. And he's just a dude and a green turtleneck.
Rob: Yes, I did a little bit of digging, and yet this is the second turtle. Jay Garrick also faced the turtle. So this one is the Turtle Man, though later he becomes just the Turtle. And I do love, unlike on the Flash TV show, where they, uh, made him a metahuman, he could SAP people's speed powers. I love that in these comics. He is just a guy. And later he gets like a turtle shell that he can also use to stop bullets. But he still remains just a slow man. Which I just think is just so cool because it reminds me of the things I love about the JSA too. Where the Adam is just a five foot guy who can punch really well. And that's it.
Ethan: And he talks super slow, too, which is fun.
Rob: Yes, I love that. With a lot of little ellipses in between.
Guido: Yeah, there's fine silver Age elements. This is actually considered the beginning of the Silver Age. But there's fun, um, stuff that I didn't realize was there for the Flash since the beginning. So the scene when he's sort of first expressing his power is at the diner. It's very cool how all of the food is frozen mid air and he is able to see it. And it's just cool that we've seen that effect in movies like Days of Future Past with Quicksilver. And even the Flash on the TV show to some extent uses this effect or in the Justice League movies. But it's so cool to see it on a two dimensional static panel that they just drew Barry in such a way that you can see him. He's expressive and he's action oriented and all the food is just frozen in place. It was cool to see that kind of effect in it. I agree. Ethan. Um, I liked it enough that I would read more Flash, especially because knowing that I do end up liking a lot of his rogues group. It would be really fun.
Rob: And we get also a meta moment here, too. And this actually predates the Marvel moments like this by several years, where Barry Allen is reading a Flash comic with the J. Garrick Flash and he's getting his name then directly from this other character. And it's unclear if this is a character that kind of exists in this world.
Guido: No, he's on Earth too.
Rob: So he is on Earth too. Yeah.
Guido: That's not established yet, of course, but that will be established very soon in the Flash. So that's how we get infinite Earth.
Rob: He's reading it while he's drinking a carton of Renee Homogenized milk. Yum.
Guido: Milk does a body good. I also do have to point out what the metaphor he uses. He says, that lightning bolt tossed me around like a salad and a dressing of chemicals. I think we should bring that back as a way of describing the Flash's origin story. I thought that was pretty cool.
Rob: The lightning bolt makes a lot more sense than the hard water that transforms Jay Garrick into the Flash and much more than the mongoose who bites what?
Ethan: The wizard or the hummingbird that stings Stanley splash. But that's for another, uh, time.
Guido: I know we have to cover some of those, so you should come back for that. The other two. It is so funny. I mean, when we talked about Ghost Rider Rob, you had pointed out that some of the inspiration, because it's so heavy in the Satan and the worshiping of Satan and how that's trendy and how she even had Rocky or whatever her name is, she had read the books on Satan, so she knew what to do. So you had pointed out that it might have been influenced by some of the schlocky, bmovie horror stuff that was happening and becoming a little more popular. And so it's wild to me that these two came out within a month of each other because they both really lean into like, you know what, let's embrace this idea of demons and Satan and pull it into a superhero context.
Rob: Totally. Yeah. And I think you had I mean, this wasn't Satin, but you had the Manson family in sixty nine s. You had people start talking about this darkness and this occult. And then I think you had a lot of the Roger Corman movies coming out in the late 60s in the early seventy s. And I feel like comics are sometimes always a little bit behind the trend, too. So are movies and other mainstream pop culture. So I think then they're bringing in this love of a cult that had been bubbling up since the late 60s. So yeah, it's very interesting that both of these things come to the fore. And I think with the demon, too, I'm thinking I don't know if this was true. I'd have to do more research, but I'd imagine Ren Fares and stuff like that were coming back into vogue. You hear it in like, the music of Led Zeppelin. That's also using a lot of references to Tolkien and kind of mid evil era, which was also very much happening in 1072.
Guido: Yeah. So, Ethan, what do you think of either of these? Have you read them before?
Ethan: Ghostwriter and Ghost Rider? Uh, probably a long time ago. Demon, actually, more recently, I just collected the or I just picked up the, um, hardcover of the whole Jack Kirby demon because I was looking for those anyway. And then I just scored, uh, the hard cover and I thought, oh, uh, man, yeah, got to get this. And it's a good series. And fun fact I learned he doesn't start off with Ryan's, uh, except for the spells. It wasn't until like, Alan Moore later on started the trend of him just full, uh, on Rhyming all the damn.
Guido: Time, as we were interesting. Yeah, I noticed he wasn't Rhyming yet in that first issue, so I figured that was introduced later. It is cool, though. Again, as I said earlier, I don't always love magic and comics, but I thought this worked really well because he very quickly, that first issue has like the medieval Merlin Morgan Leffay stuff, but then he pulls them right to the 20, uh, th century with the fact that Etragan. Shows up in Jason Blood and becomes a part of him and possesses him. And then Blood is such a cool character. Not only does he look cool at the streak in his hair, but the fact that again, of the times he has this whole apartment with all these artifacts in it and everyone knows him as this sort of occult weirdo. So it is a fun setup.
Rob: Uh, yeah. I feel like Kirby is pulling from so many different references here. Not just the medieval reference, but Jason Blood also reminded me of like a Sherlock Holmes type character because he is an expert in all these things. He's got these artifacts there. And then we also get this one. He's a brief role in here, but there's a police inspector who's missing an arm. And that's a direct reference to Son of Frankenstein, where we also have a police inspector missing his arm. And it's parodied in young Frankenstein as well. So you see Kirby pulling and even then, that village has a very Frankenstein kind of feel as well. So you see him pulling in all of these different references and even the idea that blood looks the same throughout time, although he doesn't really know this. I guess you also have a Dorian Gray or maybe even a Dracula kind of thing as well happening. There all these kind of classic gothic storytelling references that I'd imagine Jack would have been growing up with and things like Frankenstein he would have been seeing in their original run.
Ethan: And it's funny you mentioned Sherlock Holmes because if I remember correctly, I think there's an episode of Batman Burb and the bowl where they're both in it, demon and Charlotte Holmes. I know, uh, Demon was definitely there, and I want to believe that Sherlock Holmes showed up at one point. I think Batman got taken back in time and then he was in his Gaslight costume as, uh, an Easter egg. And then he was either working with Sherlock Holmes and the demon showed up, or he was working with the demon and Sherlock Holmes showed up.
Guido: I've never watched that show, but you're definitely inspiring me to think about.
Ethan: It all on HBO Max, and it is my favorite Batman cartoon.
Guido: Oh, wow.
Ethan: I, um, love and appreciate Batman The Animated Theory, but it's all on HBO. Max this one is the best, in my opinion. And it's got a great episode with Neil Patrick Harris as an original villain called The Connector.
Guido: Uh, very cool. I will have to look into that. I have one more quote to, um, point out, though, from the demon, another really kooky quote, because I can only imagine this is 1972. I was not alive in 1972, but I can only imagine I don't know how popular this phrase was that Jack was using, but I love that. These two people who are playing around with Jason blade's artifacts, and the one guy starts dressing as, I don't know, he calls himself Sereno. So he dresses medieval. And she says, oh, stop it, Harry. You've got as much dash as Tapioca. I just like to bring that back, I think.
Rob: I love that.
Guido: I don't even have any idea what that means. I guess she's calling him really bland, but I think that's really fun. Yeah, you've got as much depth tapioca yeah.
Rob: And his dialogue is great. I think you can see from some of the plotting maybe he needed an editor since Jack was the editor and the writer and the pencil that there's a lot going on in these. But if you like Kirby art especially, it's Kirby art on Kirby art, especially, the design of Morgan Le Fay is just really amazing.
Guido: Oh my god. And when, uh, she takes the mask off oh my gosh, yes.
Rob: I love this idea that she's got this gold mask, and you couldn't even tell at first, is it a mask? And then she takes it off and she's a million years old, like, literally, and she's decaying, and she needs that classic kind of story there. But she's got the giant Kirby headdress, and everyone basically has a big Kirby headpiece on throughout. And it's just really cool if you like that look where he so often he doesn't even give any kind of characteristic to people's faces when they're from a distance, they just almost have a blank face. But then when they do a close up, he puts in all the detail and it's a really neat effect. I felt, reading this too. I felt like this could be a series, it could be a movie. I thought he set this up well with these different timelines. And also, uh, that Jason has this gaggle of friends. So Harry, who you just mentioned, guido, who's kind of the cut up, and he's like the comic relief and very much has that Marvel MCU snarkiness. And then he also looks like Jack.
Guido: He's got the cigar hanging out.
Rob: Yeah, he's got the cigar. Then he's got this more stoic South Asian friend as well. And a couple, and a couple, which I thought was pretty diverse for 1972, and all these different time period, different villains, different stories going on. I could really see this, actually, as a series.
Ethan: And later in the series, you see the real, um, cool connection between him and Jason. He has this ESP power where he's able to summon the demon with his mind and help, um, not Edrican, uh, come out of Jason when Jason is like, tied up or whatever.
Guido: Cool. We'll definitely want to check more, uh, of that out. We didn't spend too much on Ghost Rider. Do we want to spend any more?
Rob: Well, the only thing I was thinking is, um, I think we'd mentioned this on our previous Ghost Rider episode, but yes, the relationship between Johnny Blaze and Rocky, it actually reminded me of the relationship between Barry Allen Iris, iris west on the TV series. Not in the comics, but they have this very awkward we're brother and sister, and we're also lovers.
Ethan: And I always forget that the show did that and not the comics. Because then because I always think, uh, oh gee, this is why it's such a perfect amalgam, because you have that dynamic now.
Guido: Rob even asked me, he was like, mhm, when did they make them siblings? I was like, no, that was the TV show.
Rob: Yeah. It's so shockingly similar to actually the Ghost Rider, where they are johnny's father dies and then he goes to live with this other family and then he falls in love with Rocky. And Rocky is also just this really weird character because Johnny Blaze has made an oath to Rocky's mother that he won't get on the bike again because by getting on the bike he killed Rocky's mother. But then Rocky is like you're a coward, you won't get back on the bike. It's like, listen, he made it oath to your mom because he accidentally killed her. You're very selfish. There's a lot of selfishness going on. And Johnny also jumped right to Satanism. That's his first thing.
Ethan: I always love that this is the only place I can turn.
Rob: Yes. You couldn't have gotten a loan maybe or seek some experimental medical treatment? No. Right to see, it's like hopping on.
Ethan: A unicycle and saying this is my only transportation.
Rob: Yes. Well, let's see how these almost seems like these three characters could not be amalgamated. But you'd be wrong. So let's spend some time exploring, multiversity.
Ethan: I am your guy. Through these vast new realities and ponder.
Guido: The question.
Ethan: What if?
Rob: So today we are asking the very lengthy question what if Etragan the demon, the Flash, both J. Garrick and Barry Allen, Johnny Blaze and Ghost Fighter amalgamated into one character? And that all comes to light in Speed demon number one from Amalgam Comics. Aka. Marvel plus DC from April 1996. And this is entitled Demons Knight with.
Guido: An N. And this is credited to Howard Mackey and James Felder as the writers. The story penciled by Salvador Lauraca inked by Al Milgram colored by Kevin Tinsley lettered by Comic craft Richard Starkings and edited by Bobby Chase And so this is again designated Earth 9602 in the Marvel universe. There's not a lot of back information. I went through every interview and oral history of Amalgam that I could find which we've talked about in the last time we had this conversation, how little of that there is, how there should just be an entire history book about Amalgam. But this issue in particular, and it's funny because Howard Mackey is still with us and still active. He actually lives near us, Rob, and is heavily involved in a store nearby. So perhaps one day we'll get an opportunity to ask him about this. But there was no interview I could find giving any backstory on this and so I didn't do a full plot summary in it. What happens? And please jump in everyone. But to give a quick sense in case any listeners have not read it we meet Uatu the Guardian, who is killing Hal Jordan and that's interrupted by this character that is Speed Demon, which is Blaze Allen. So it's Barry Allen and Johnny Blaze mixed in with Etragan the Demon and the Flash and Ghost Rider altogether. And through the course of this issue, he lives in a circus. So he meets lots of amalgamated characters in the. Circus, which we can talk about. I mean, countless characters. I had to even look up who they were. He has his nephew what's his nephew's name?
Ethan: Wallace west.
Guido: Very different.
Ethan: Yeah, we'll get back to that.
Speaker UNK: Um.
Guido: At his wedding to Iris Blaze, which, by the way, he's being married by Father Helstrom, which is a weird, odd, kind of not Amalgam, just sort of planting in a character. But they do. Iris is getting killed, and he makes a deal with Nightspector, which is Specter and Nightmare, to hunt souls or be in a race with him to hunt the most number of souls. I actually got that from one of the Amalgam trading cards. Explains that they made a deal to who could get 6666 sold first. That was written on one of the amounts of trading cards. Anyway, he encounters Green Goblin, Two Face and Scarecrow and Silicone Man, which is Plastic Man and Sandman. And I don't know what is going on here, but lots of things are going on here. We meet more and more characters, and in the end, Wally also becomes a ghost. I don't know. I think that's enough, um, of a summary before we dive further into the.
Ethan: Implication at the end that Night Spector possessed. That's how I always right.
Guido: Possessed Wally. Yeah. They sort of tease that it's darker. We think he's like, oh, he's become a hero, too. And then at the end, you're like, oh, maybe not.
Ethan: Why is his name not Wally Catch or, uh, Danny West? I'll never know because it's clearly Danny Blob is Blob and a character named Chunk.
Guido: Yeah, I don't know who that is.
Ethan: He's a friend of Wally West. But that's about all they did was.
Guido: Just.
Ethan: All they did was just recast, uh, the Blob and give them glasses.
Guido: Um, right. Well, it's weird, too. Like, you have Ms. Miracle there, and I had, uh, to look up that she's Mr. Miracle. And Crystal the only crystal you get out of her is that she has red hair. So they just basically made Mr. Miracle a woman and gave her red hair. Uh, I don't think he's named in the comics, but I saw at least online, people call Wally Kiddemon.
Ethan: That's on the trading card.
Guido: Okay.
Ethan: And then Scarecrow is hilarious because he is, of course, batman, scarecrow and Ghost riders. Scarecrow.
Guido: Yeah. So that one lends itself to being the same name. I don't know why Blob gets to stay Blob or Puck gets to stay Puck, too, though. He's oberon and Puck. And then, as we talked about, there's some errors with Goblin. So you both noticed errors. One is in this issue rob, you noticed something.
Rob: Yeah. So he's called Harvey Osbourne. So Norman Osborn. But then later on in the issue, they call him Norman. So clearly they did not look through this super closely for that error. But then, Ethan, you mentioned another one.
Ethan: Before we started, but his name is Tupac. Goblin when we see him as a cameo in Dark Claws Danger Room, and he's fighting with all these different Amalgams, and one of them is two fish goblin riding on a giant coin glider.
Guido: I love it. A lot more fun here.
Rob: See, that makes a lot more sense because when we first see that character in here, he's just called Green Goblin and he looks just like he's drawn exactly green Goblin drawn exactly the same. He's got the same glider, he's got the same pumpkin bomb. So you don't know he's when he.
Guido: Takes his mask off, it's split, but that's it.
Rob: And then it makes sense as a character that you would amalgam because they were both friends of the hero who go insane. And that works perfectly. But I totally think they should have done all those other stuff, all those other details that you're describing from the other issue.
Guido: And this issue, and I do like it has the fake reference, the fake meta reference to the fact that Logan made him into Two Face. And it says in the now classic Investigator Comics number seven, which, of course.
Ethan: Doesn'T detect another thing you pointed out that is called Norman.
Rob: Um.
Ethan: Harvey Dent has, um, had two names. Harvey Canton, Harvey Dent. Now, I'm giving Amalgam way too much credit, so I'm not even going to go ahead and say that they did this, mindfully, but this will be my head candidate. Now.
Speaker UNK: Um.
Ethan: Just like sometimes he was Harvey Kent, sometimes Harvey Dent, sometimes he's Harvey Osborne, and sometimes he's Norman Dent.
Guido: Okay. I told Rob that it could work with a character with two personalities. Right? He has two names. He goes by both. So I agree. I think it's giving them too much credit, but it does work. We can sort of retcon it into something that was done intentionally.
Rob: Yeah, and there's another character in here, too, that I had the character that takes Iris energy out. We never hear that name either. And Guido, I think you were also saying I think it's explained more also on a trading card. Ethan do you know anything else about that?
Ethan: And who was that character again?
Guido: He's like an evil he looks like a Merlin.
Rob: He looks like Merlin, but he's in monochrome. He's black and gray. Yes.
Ethan: I always assumed that Merlin was just thrown in there.
Guido: Yeah. Well, in both universes have Merlin, half a Merlin. That's true. Are there other connections to other Amalgams? Um ethan so particularly around Uatu, does that story ever show up? Because isn't there even a reference? He makes a reference at the beginning. It's such a weird way to start.
Ethan: This issue, by so weird because it.
Guido: Feels like it's part of a larger narrative, but I don't think it is. But he claims he's going into every universe to kill every single madman. Jordan it is not.
Ethan: It's just one of the facets of Amalgam where they're just like, hey, we're going to act like this was a whole universe when really right do some fake world building. It's fake world building. But we do see who watches The Guardian again in challenges are the Fantastic.
Guido: And he looks the and is he killing people?
Ethan: No.
Guido: Is he evil? No. Just kind of there I thought was.
Rob: This maybe a reference? What's so odd is had what's it called when Hal Jordan becomes evil? Um and becomes um parallel that storyline, and he's kind of going out trying to kill all the superheroes in all the different universes. So I was thinking, wait, is this a reference to that? But what's odd is it's not how Jordan who's doing it, it's this other.
Guido: Well, that's a good point. I mean, if we want to, again, give them probably more credit than they deserve. Although maybe Howard Mackie thought this, but by calling a Madman Jordan, maybe you're right. Maybe what we're supposed to assume is that what triggers Huachu The Guardian is that there is this parallax Hal Jordan. There is this evil Hal Jordan out there. And so they decide we need to go and kill all the hells everywhere. So that's a great also retrofit of making this a totally logical, really rich world that we've look at me doing.
Rob: A deep comic reference guitar. That's also your job.
Ethan: I always thought Madman, madman should just probably be Madman, like a crazy guy. But I always looked at it as because I thought every Amalgam had to be this guy and this guy or this woman and this woman. And so I took it as Madman, who is the brother of the Hulk villain, the leader, and Al Jordan.
Guido: Uh, but I think that would make sense. I mean, he does need to be amalgamated. Uh, you're right.
Ethan: Unless he's just plucked in, because that happens too. They've just got to drop people in there too. And they probably just calling in Mad Men. This is great because the Star brand made him crazy, and that's an Amalgam on its own. And I love that they've just incorporated the new universe in there too. That's just insane.
Guido: That is Howard Mackey's doing, who has a connection to the other issues we read that are just as wacky. And then, of course, the plot of this, it's not even worth trying to unpack the plot. It's action packed. I would say so much is going on in these pages. It's just so dense and it's so convoluted. But it sort of then works, I guess, as an amalgam issue, right? If it's meant they're all meant to be these fake issues that are taking place in the middle of a story that we're only getting part of. So it works. It's just humongous.
Rob: It's so similar to what we've encountered with so many what if square. It feels like, well, the writer thought, this is my only time that I can tell this story, tell these characters. So I'm going to try to put everything in into these 20 plus pages. We see this with what if all the time.
Guido: And this page is actually true, though. You can never go back.
Rob: No, you can never go back. So it feels like he was like, I'm going to put every single thing I want to tell into this story. So it feels like it is bursting at the seams in terms of story. At the same time, though, we should talk about our central character because he is an interesting one because I was actually looking on Amalgam fandom and they say, well, Speed Demon is an Amalgam of the, um, Flash and Ghostwriter, which is not really true because, uh, he's got much more Etrigan in there. He's really these three characters. But is he? Because we don't really get a lot of Flash at all in this character. We get the name, which is cool.
Guido: Well, he can fly around quickly.
Rob: Yeah, but I feel like we don't get enough of that because the Flash is all about being fast. I think we get a lot more Ghostwriter, a lot more etching. Than we get.
Ethan: Well, I'm going to do a shout out to Ghost Rider podcast I know called Inner Demons. They covered, uh, this issue and they call him Stationary Demons. He hardly runs the show is called Ear.
Guido: Damns.
Ethan: And they've covered this issue and a.
Guido: Bunch of other Ghosts. We'll have to check that, uh, out. I like that. Yeah, he has the flaming cycle, but he doesn't seem to go very quickly. What's weird is, again, and I only got this from the card, which the Amalgam cards are adding so much to the story and they are canonical, but that he is in this race against Night Spectre. So that also gives us the Demon. Well, I guess that's more Ghost Rider than Flash, though. Although ironically, we're about to meet Flash in a race in just a moment.
Rob: That's true. Yeah. And there is all this complicated stuff with that. There's Jay Garrick there.
Guido: And Barrygan merged with Jay Garrick. Previously and so then when etragan merges with Blaze Allen you have the Jay Garak presence. Like it I guess that's what brings you the Flash, because Blaze Allen does not have speed powers. So I guess by having Etrigan have merged with Jay Garrick, although they're from the same universe. So that's not really kind of an Amalgam. But then you merge them with Ghostwriter and put them in Blaze Allen, and that's how you get all the elements.
Ethan: You need, which makes it way too complicated. Like, why isn't Jgarixlashmix with phantom rider?
Guido: Right? They could have found a lot of other characters. Yeah, but there probably wasn't enough real estate to do it, necessarily.
Rob: Yeah, there's not enough real estate to do what they did. Yeah. I do like the idea, though, that we have the Wally character also becoming a Ghost writer, becoming a Speed Demon at the end. That is a nice kind of fitting where in order to save his uncle, he also had to become cursed. And that they're going to kind of, um, be this team. So that is nice, even though obviously we don't get to actually see them be a team because this was this one off. But I do like that idea, that aspect of the story.
Guido: Oh, yeah. And the only other thing I'll add from the trading cards I noticed is that Night Spectre's realm is called his Sadistic Sanctum of Lost Souls. So that's fun. He's the lord of the Nightmare dimension.
Rob: And then another that character I was going to say that character I think does work well as an amalgam because Specter has often been this sometimes he's good, sometimes he's evil. And the look, they both have green. They both have the white skin.
Ethan: Yeah. And then one other thing. One last thing about the trading cards. Was it's not really confirmed? Definitely not in speed damage. And I don't remember if it's confirmed in JLX. Um, but there's another speedster, Mercury, who's bart Allen and Quicksilver. And if I remember correctly, the card, um, says that he was the grandson of Blaze.
Guido: The grandson Jeep.
Ethan: Which, uh, is interesting because if not a grandson, definitely a descendant of some.
Rob: Sort cousin once remotely what's, uh, definitely.
Ethan: Strange is, um, like, there's no demon with that, right? So, I mean, if anything, they should have him be related to the other Jay Garrick amalgam from Super Soldier, uh, who's mixed with the wizard Whiz.
Guido: Uh.
Rob: Nobody beats him.
Guido: That's a specific reference. I don't even know if it's regional. I don't know if with stores are everywhere, but there were commercials where we grew up in the 80s nobody beats with anyway, on this amalgam, as we just discussed, as you, um, confirmed, Ethan, we haven't revisited Speed Demon in any way. Do we want more speed. Demon Would we read more Speed Demon?
Ethan: Absolutely. There's so many legacy flashes and so many legacy ghost riders. I need more speed demons. Where's my Speed Demon 2099? That's like, I don't know, whatever flash beyond.
Speaker UNK: And.
Ethan: Robbie Reyes needs a flash. Mix him, uh, with the new Wally West to mix him, uh, here's another Speed. We need some, um, lady Speed Demons as well.
Guido: Yeah. Mashup, barbara catch with, uh I don't know. There are female speedsters.
Ethan: Um, now I'm going to go back and say, uh, Mary Maxwell from the jesse Quick. Yes. Jesse Quick would make more sense. But I was going to say Barry Maxwell Stanley also, because they're both technically what if right, yeah, you have the Barber catch one, which I don't know if you've covered that one yet. No. And then the Mary Maxwell one from the whole DC creator.
Guido: I can imagine.
Ethan: Yeah.
Guido: And rob. Do you want more speed demons?
Rob: Yeah, I think these amalgams are so much fun. And I think the one thing that sucks about them is that they are these one offs. And I think, like we were talking about, you sometimes are cramming a lot into these issues. And I think if you let them breathe, you can really tell these stories. And these are really fun characters. So I would love to see this character come back and tell more of this story. I don't think we will have that, but maybe if the money is right.
Guido: Last night at San Diego Comic Con, Jim Lee said he never got to do any Amalgams, and he'd love to.
Ethan: He draw a great speed demon.
Guido: Yeah. My gosh. Yeah. All right, well, let's move in because we're about to get even weirder, and I am so excited.
Rob: Yes. Let us strap on our running shoes and ponder some possibilities. Will the future you describe so, Guido, I believe you were a bad, bad boy this week and broke the rules. I'm curious how you came up with the hip hop.
Guido: I'm so angry at myself, but I had to. All right, so Amalgams are really hard to do any future issues of, because there are really not even coded references, uh, generally to these characters, to these worlds existing. So it's very, very hard to look for inspiration. And with Spider Boy, there was actually a second Amalgam issue in the second wave of Amalgam. So we got to do that. And I don't remember for Doctor Strange fate, what we did.
Ethan: I don't remember what you did either, but they did not have a second issue. Oh, you know what you did do? Uh, he returned in the second series. Second miniseries.
Guido: Okay. Yeah, that's, uh right, the miniseries. That's right.
Rob: And like Ethan was saying, the Flash and Ghost Rider have so many iterations, too.
Guido: That also makes it probably harder convoluted histories. Anyway, so I already knew that I wanted us to talk about these two issues that we're about to talk about. The reason that we're breaking the rules is that these two issues are from 1994. They precede the Amalgam, which is 1996. And generally, our rule is that we are only reading in our pondering possibilities segment things that follow the alternate universe. But here we are, 55 episodes in breaking all the rules because we had to read these two quasars, and I will tell you why after we introduced the issues.
Ethan: Well, if Johnny Blaze can break the rules and sell his souls to Satan, you can break the rules.
Guido: Exactly. I did not have to involve Satan in this process.
Rob: So we're good or did you?
Guido: Exactly. So, Rob, what do we read?
Rob: Yes. So first up is Quasar issue number 17 from December. And that's burber.
Ethan: I'm reborn to run.
Rob: That's my brief brief.
Guido: But can you say because, uh, we can't understand okay.
Rob: It's reborn to run.
Guido: There you go.
Rob: And then that's followed up by distant running from May 1994.
Guido: That's issue 58. So both of these issues are written by Mark Greenwald, though on the 58th, Peter Sanderson joined in issue 17, penciled by Mike Manley, who did the ink, colored by Paul Bechton, lettered by Janice Chang, edited by Howard Mackey. And issue 58 was penciled by John Hebank, inked by Aaron McClellan, colored by Paul Beckton, lettered by Janice Chang uh, and edited by Mark Rockwoods.
Rob: Is this one of Peter Sanderson's only comic writing roles we know and love?
Guido: Peter Sanderson The Official Handbooks, yes, but it's probably one of his very few. He Worked Closely With Gruanwald On mhm starting the ohatma, The Official Handbook. So that relationship makes sense to me. I don't know why he's credited, and I don't know much about what other comics he threw.
Rob: I didn't these are like encyclopedia kind of books here of deep references. So maybe that's why he was brought in.
Guido: And here's what's most important. So, um, this is the Marvel Universe existence of Barry Allen. So this is flat out Barry Allen. In the Marvel Universe, he appears twice, and only twice in these two issues. So in the DC Universe, he dies in crisis on Infinite Earth, and he dies while he's running in the very famous scene, saving the universe. He does not get resurrected for 20 years. So during that time, DC had a ban on resurrecting him and bring him back. And for whatever reason and my gosh, I wish I knew, and I scoured. I love Mark Gruanwald. Mark Gruyenwald is the inspiration behind our podcast. He created The Omniverse. But I could not find any reference to why he did this, what he did here in Quasar. Quasar is a very cookie title. It involves a lot of multiple universes. We will probably cover some at some point. It's really fun. Um, it really is just wacky and very metaxual and pulls in lots of storylines. And in these two issues, in the first one, we have this race starting between all these Marvel Universe speedsters. So we have Black Racer, Speed Demon, Super Saber, Quicksilver, Captain Marvel, Whizzer and Macari, all being challenged to race. And Barry Allen shows up in the middle of the race. He is now has longer hair. He's a little older. He has a beard grown out, but he has his red and gold costume torn to shreds, and all he remembers is running. And so he shows up clearly out of crisis on Infinite Earth.
Rob: Well, and he kind of remembers his name, but he doesn't really. And he remembers it buried Alien.
Guido: Buried Alien, exactly, which is very clever. Then he gets called the fastest man alive, and he said, yeah, that feels right, because he wins the race. And then he shows up again four years later in Quasar. And at this point, he just exists as fast forward and has a whole now red and gold costume and gold hair and doesn't have much to do. He participates in the race at that point. But he ends up. Saving rid of the cheater and therefore not winning the race for speed. And describes how winning is not that important and that he's stuck in this universe and he keeps having reminiscences about his universe. But that nobody is the same anymore. Which is a reference. Of course. To the Rebooted DC Universe. And no one is anyone he recognizes. And that's it. So we had to read these because it's Barry Allen in the Marvel Universe.
Speaker UNK: Yeah.
Ethan: I love that so much. And before I forget, I said this already, but I'll say it on the show forward Marvel Legends figure.
Guido: Yes, I know. Well, especially I like when his costumes in tatters. It's just cool looking. Not even to oggle like a male physique. It actually just looks cool because it's all torn up again because he's coming right out of crisis. But then he does have his full.
Ethan: Costume, and it's enough to get the idea that that's Barry Allen without getting into legal trouble.
Guido: Yeah, although this I mean, I think had they wanted there to be legal trouble, they probably could have done it. Right? This is not parody. He's not being comedic. You do sometimes see in the last 30 years, they've really abandoned this. They don't do this anymore. But prior to that, you would see characters casually or satirically show up. But this is neither of those. This is sincerely he's sincerely putting this character in this story, and I have no idea if he wanted to do more. I don't know at all. And then what's cool, too, is, Ethan, you made the connection that there's a lot of Star brand stuff with Quasar quasar bridges to the New Universe during his title run, and Star brand is mentioned in Speed Demons. I wonder if Howard Mackey had a thing for Starbrand. He's editing the title, so Howard Mackey, Mark Ruinwald, and Peter Sanderson are clearly like the nerd trifecta on that title.
Rob: And where does Barry Allen connected to star? Labs?
Ethan: True generation of amalgam and an alien, not necessarily a buried one. Crash Lands and meats. What's his name? Ken? I guess his name is, um, from New University. I got to get back to reading those. It's basically the same origin as Mainlanders, so that's, um, a pretty good amount of them as well.
Guido: Yeah, that's true. You couldn't make Star. Brandon? Uh, Greenlander. So what did you think of these two issues? I did not tell you going in why we read these.
Ethan: No, I liked them. I think I liked the origin issues and, of course, Speed even more, but I wanted more fast forward, um, and less Energizer Bunny.
Rob: We should talk about that. It's so funny because we didn't mention him. Actually, there's an elder in the universe called the Runner. Well, I'm guessing was just made up for these issues. I don't know.
Guido: Again, there's a lot of weird elders, so he probably does all gold and.
Rob: Basically the whole thing is about wanting to be the fastest and being obsessed with speed. He's connected to the grand masters we see here, but he's put together these fastest heroes in the Marvel universe. And when you see them all lined up, you also see it makes sense why the Flash is there or buried Alien is there. Because when you think of fast superheroes, you think of the Flash. And then you see the lineup of Marvel heroes. Uh, and you go, wait, who is that? Okay, you've got the, uh, other speed demon. Funny stuff. But that's such a minor character. And even Macari, I know now from the movies, but I would imagine was still not a name brand character. Not like the Flash. So it almost feels like the Flash had to be there if you're going to have a race of the fastest superheroes.
Guido: Yeah.
Rob: It almost feels like they put.
Guido: It for why they put it in. Maybe it's actually they put, like, Captain.
Rob: Marvel in there, and it almost feels like well, I didn't even think of Captain Marvel as a fast superhero, I guess.
Guido: Well, Monica Rambeau. Yeah. Because she can move at the speed of light. Right? She can move. She moves on lightwave.
Ethan: But on that point at that point, you might as well have Superman.
Rob: Sure.
Guido: True.
Ethan: Did bump into Thor casually in the well, Simon Sin run.
Guido: Yeah, he's a character that his parts of him have made appearances or Clark Kent's been drawn in the back of a panel before. I love the Quasar title a lot, and I like it's kookiness. And these two issues are really kooky. I mean, they are literally just who's going to be the fastest. There's nothing more here. There's little pieces of the larger plot. Like, you've got the Quasars protecting eon thing, and there's, like, this bigger meta stuff happening, but it always happens with these little episodic weird stories.
Rob: Two issues. Quasar is the secondary character. Macari is really the lead star of both of these.
Guido: Macari's and Quasar for quite a number of issues. He's basically a second character for a good number of issues. I'm assuming Gruanwald just wanted to use them and make them more of a thing.
Rob: And Ethan, you mentioned this, but we not only get an appearance by Barry Allen, the Flash, but we also get other appearances by characters that Marvel did not own. So there is the Energizer Bunny at one point, who is the cheater, the antagonist, basically, of the one issue who starts yeah.
Guido: Who does nasty things to other people. Yeah.
Rob: And then we also get Roadrunner, a.
Guido: Lot of Road Runner.
Rob: Mhm.
Guido: I forgot roadrunner is the previous winner. I love that he even gives Macari the medal at the end because Roadrunner was last year's winner.
Ethan: It's so funny, and I'm just surprised that they just blatantly made a Road Runner. They didn't name it.
Guido: Not even green or colored differently. Nothing. Yeah, it is just Roadrunner it's very funny. And he's not in one panel. He's in a few panels.
Rob: Yeah. When I first saw him, I thought, oh, he's just going to be a little bit of a background character. And then I was very surprised when they did put him to the forefront there.
Guido: All right.
Rob: And then we get a lot of other characters. I mean, we mentioned their speed demon. There's a lot of kind of second string characters. And some people, I'm guessing I don't know if these were characters like the person who has the wheel.
Guido: I don't know either. I have no idea.
Ethan: Okay. I couldn't tell.
Guido: There were toys like that in the was trying to remember. And then, of course, there was a human character like that too.
Rob: Um, and when Macari wins, we get a whole bunch of our best friend to walk to is in there. We get? Impossible man is in there. Yes. The scrolls, the Turtle guys that love to party from the series. I forget what they're called. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of.
Guido: Whatever the name or whatever the name of the planet Phoenix, uh, blows up that are the Asparagus people. They're here.
Rob: I was going to say the Asparagus people are in there. Yeah. So we get all those the Amoeba ones who get a little featured a little earlier. So there's a lot of people that they kind of drew in there. Uh, and I don't know, though, there's one that has these big shoulder blades, uh, and big purple pompador and is also featured again in a panel. And I don't know if that character is a reference to something else.
Guido: It looks like somebody out of like The Fifth Element. Although that movie didn't have totally yeah.
Ethan: Maybe the Fifth Element was inspired by that issue.
Guido: Could be. Yeah. I think these are two wacky issues. And I really hope to one day know why Barry Allen showed up in these two issues of Quasar. Of course, sadly, Grunwald died quite young, but maybe Howard Mackey or Peter Sanderson will, uh, one day tell us more about how this happened.
Rob: Yeah, or Janice Chang. We've met her at several cons. Yeah.
Guido: I don't know that she's got no origin, but maybe she does.
Ethan: And I'd like to see Barry Allen show up again in the Marvel universe. Or another flash, any of the wallies. Uh, Jesse, they could go by fast forward and show up in the Marvel Universe.
Guido: Yeah. Or you could have fat toward show up in the DC Universe. Mhm.
Rob: Yeah. Or you could have and now that McCarthy.
Ethan: Or you can have Ebar and Fallen show up and you'd be rewind.
Rob: Oh my gosh, I love it.
Guido: Oh, wow. You just came up with the perfect pairing. Fast forward and rewind. Wow. I love that. Oh my God.
Rob: So good.
Guido: Oh, I like that a lot.
Rob: Well, maybe now that Macari is more in the mainstream and being a character in the. MCU that will see these characters bored.
Guido: I doubt it.
Rob: Yeah, but McCarry has to have another super fast person to battle or in.
Ethan: The movies, if she decides to become a full on super person, her, uh, name to be fast Forward.
Guido: Yeah, that's true. Uh, she could adopt that name. So I can ask if the alternate universe inspired these because I broke my rule. But I'm glad that we read them. Uh, I hope they inspire you and our listeners to read more Quasar.
Ethan: I think Amalgam may have inspired I think some of that there might have been some inspiration from the Quasar books. Um, but yeah, obviously not here.
Guido: Yeah, well, Greenwald was such an architect of the Amalgam, and you can feel that because what Amalgam does so well is what I love about the Quasar books is they pull on a whole bunch of universe references and they're tons of fun. And that's Groonwald's style. That's what I love about him, and I think people love about him. Yeah. Anything else about these or anything we read?
Rob: No, I think this made me want to maybe possibly explore more of the demon, that's for sure.
Ethan: Oh, demons.
Rob: Just to check out the art, the story. Yeah.
Ethan: And you meet Clary and the witch boy in the original series.
Guido: Oh, you do?
Rob: Yeah.
Guido: I didn't know that he was in the original series. Have you read Shadow Pact or Justice League? Dark.
Ethan: I think I've read some shadow packs.
Guido: Because I love Shadow Pack.
Ethan: I'm a big Blue Devil fan, too.
Guido: Yeah, I'm really excited for a possible screen adaptation. There was the, um JJ Abrams developing it for HBO Max stuff and the Guillermo DelToro stuff, and I don't know when it's going to happen. And the recent rumors that they're looking at duolippa for Zitana, which I'm totally okay with.
Ethan: I'm okay with that. But when I was seeing that, I saw it under a reply that was like, hey, maybe get an accurate and that got me thinking. Besides Camilla Mendez? Do I know? That would be good. And I bought my app town from Euphoria.
Guido: Oh, yeah.
Ethan: Lexi.
Guido: I can see that. That's going to be such a fun character to cast.
Rob: I hadn't heard Guillermo del Toro, but.
Guido: That was a few years ago. I think he was developing it as a movie, and then I think he walked away from the project. And that's when JJ. Abrams got the green light to make it an HBO Max series. But I don't know what it's going.
Rob: To be since he is kind of Jason Blood demonologist. If you ever see his house, which is just full of ancient artifacts and things like that, I think he would hit that out of the park with multiple storylines and multiple time periods and everything. I'd love to see that.
Ethan: And if they're doing what is it? Justice League guard or Shadow Pack on HBO? Max they absolutely have to bring back ian Buren, the guy who played Blue Devil, dan Cassidy in the Swamp Thing show. He deserves a spin off on his own. But if that spinoff is, um, being a part of something bigger, like Justice League Dark, do it, because that was incredible.
Guido: Yeah, we didn't watch Swamp Thing. Um, but I do always think about going back to it to check it out. I didn't know that.
Rob: And until all these things come to fruition, you can watch the 27th series of The Flash, which is still on the end. So take that into.
Guido: All right.
Rob: Well, I have been kido and I have been rob. That is a wrap. Dear botchers, thank you so much for listening. And, of course, thank you to our very special guest, Ethan from Makemine Amalgam on Twitter. Ethan, can you tell people how they can find you and why they should find you?
Ethan: Well, you can find me on Twitter at makemine. Amalgam. And if you like obscure characters and Marvel legends figures, um, and Rachel Lee Cook, I'm your guy.
Guido: Yeah, that is, um, all true. And the really wonderful reading list is in the show notes. You can follow us on Twitter at your watchers, uh, and leave a review.
Rob: Wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.
Guido: In the meantime, in the words of the guru to not the huawei guardian, keep pondering the possibility it is, uh.