Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

>> Rob: Oh, Merry Christmas, old DC Universe, and welcome to dear watchers and omniversal comic book contest where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

>> Guido: We are traveling with you, inexplicably with old person voices through the stories and the worlds that make up an omniverse of fictional realities we all love. And your watchers on this journey are.

>> Rob: Me, Gagito, earn me, Rob doing my Jimmy Stewart impression. It was all Merry Christmas, old savings and loan.

>> Guido: Oh, gosh. That's Jimmy Stewart, though, at the very end of his life, I suspect, with.

>> Rob: Him late on Carson in the end. My gosh. Well, Gita, what's new in, our little section of the multiverse? Almost.

>> Guido: Merry Christmas. Yes, it's the most wonderful time of the year.

>> Rob: Like the song says, halloween after Halloween.

>> Guido: But it is fun. There's so many holiday tie in things. We did our Thanksgiving episode with Harley last month, and it was fun to track something down that ties into Christmas this month. But that's not all that's new. With Christmas, we also get a new season of what if on Disney plus. And some, people out there might be excited about that.

>> Rob: And it's going to be almost like an advent calendar, too, because they're doing one every day of the week.

>> Guido: I do love the release schedule. I don't love what the questions are that they oddly announced already, but hopefully I'll be surprised. And I think we might cover some of them on some upcoming m episodes. So stay tuned and we'll see.

>> Rob: It would have been interesting to keep it like an advent calendar and make it a surprise. So you didn't know until you logged on that day to watch the episode what it's going to be. Because that's the fun part of an advent calendar, is like, oh, what's the surprise going to be? It's like a present.

>> Guido: I don't know, a multiversal what if thing is like, well, what is the question? Or what's going to be the, I guess here we know the question. We don't quite know what that does to the universe, but we'll see m much more on that very soon. if you're listening to this episode when it releases, the new season starts in, I think, five days or something like that. So we are approaching the end of the year. And even when we're not posting a new episode every week, we are online. So you can find us on most social media, especially threads, Instagram, Facebook, and we are active and try to post. Sometimes we'll post about our most recent episode or we'll find some treasures from our back catalog because we have had.

>> Rob: A lot of episodes, yes, but if you are joining us for the first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse today, origins of the story, exploring multiversity and pondering possibilities. So thank you for coming along with us on our Christmas sleigh ride.

>> Guido: And remember, you can leave us a five star review wherever you're listening, and you can find us on coffee. To support us, go to dearwatchers.com and click join if you want to support us in your end of the year giving, gift giving, feeling stuff vibe.

>> Rob: And with that, dear watchers, grab yourself a heaping slice of figgy pudding. Is it a slice? No, it's probably a bowl. And welcome to episode 123. And let's check out what's happening in the omniverse with our travels to today's alternate universe. And today we put our tinsel outfits on and write to Santa with the question, what if extraneo showed Bunker the former teen titan, a world without him before heading to a JLQ Christmas party?

>> Guido: I love that question. And it is a brand new alternate universe that just came out within a matter of weeks. When you're listening to this, so hot off the presses, it's an alternate earth with no number, no designation. We get a glimpse for only about two pages into this alternate earth, which we'll call earth bunkerless. And that will make sense if you've read it or when you get to hear our summary of the issue.

>> Rob: But before we do that, Guido, let's talk about our backgrounds with Bunker and the JLQ and also the it's a wonderful life setup concept.

>> Guido: Yeah, well, and we'll give some rundown on bunker in our first segment. For those of you who don't know, Miguel Jose Barragen is Bunker the Teen titan a rather recent creation? And we'll go into that when we get into our origins of the story. So Bunker was a creation that I read a little. He's in very few comics, more than some people, but not a ton. So very few comics over the last decade that he's existed. And I knew who he was, I knew he existed, I knew he was gay, I knew he was Latinx. But I didn't always follow him. I just happened to be reading titles he was in and see him. So I'm not a fan. I don't know how many fans he has, but I am also not an expert because there was some stories he went off to do that I did not follow. JLQ is, of course, the Justice League queer, which was created for the first DC Pride special and has made a number of appearances and will play into our alternate universe second segment today. And I have read every JLQ appearance, of which there are enough I can count on one hand. But I love the concept, obviously, and I'll stop there. You share on those, and then we'll get into it's a wonderful life.

>> Rob: Yeah. So Bunker is a character I found out about a few minutes ago.

>> Guido: Not a few minutes because you did read the issues for today, but a few hours ago.

>> Rob: Yes, exactly. I had never heard of this character. This feels like the kind of character, too, that if there was a queer Latinx actor singer out there that they'd just like, we're going to make a movie of a bunker movie. And you go, wait, who? It's like what they were doing with that bad bunny character they announced and.

>> Guido: Everyone was like, Spiderman character? yeah.

>> Rob: That's the kind of character it feels.

>> Guido: Like I need to buy up all of Bunker's appearances.

>> Guido: I was actually thinking that this morning because I agree with you. I'm being serious, actually, because I agree with you.

>> Rob: It is someone who's been on euphoria and then they're going to get cast as Bunker and the JLQ. I had read a bunch of the DC pride, so I knew that I knew some of the standalone characters. I knew Extranyo, who will come up later as kind of the figurehead of.

>> Guido: know it was a real thing. Even when I put it in our notes for today, you were like, wait, is the JLQ real? And I'm like, yeah, no, it's actually named in the. It's kind of a joke, of course, but it is actually named, so it is real.

>> Rob: it's a wonderful.

>> Guido: Life is one of those movies actually like a Christmas story that I can't think of sitting down and watching it start to finish because I never liked the pieces of it that I had seen over many years of my whole life starting as a child. So I know I've seen it, but I'm not a big fan and I haven't gone back in recent memory as the movie viewer that I am now in my adulthood to absorb it and see how I feel about it. So I can't say much. I obviously know what happens in it. I know the concept and then I know the trope that gets used in tons of other media, of course. How about you?

>> Rob: Yeah, it was not a movie I watched growing up, which is odd because it actually fell out of copyright for a while, which was why it was on tv so much. And then they, did restore the copyright at some point. I didn't see it until high school. It's actually a really amazing movie. I'm almost tempted that we watch it this season because now you don't remember it. It's a really great movie. Frank Capra, of course. And what's interesting is everyone, of course, knows that it's a wonderful Life concept. Oh, it's a world where I didn't exist. But that's only about, like, 30 minutes of a two hour plus movie. The rest of the movie is George Bailey's life, and it kind of just ends with, like, okay, now let's see that life without him in it. So it's interesting that everyone has kind of taken this concept and run with it, even though it's actually a fairly small part of the movie. The movie actually opens with the angels and gods, like, speaking, and they're just lights on a screen. It's very interesting. Almost like avant garde for a movie from the 40s.

>> Guido: Well, it's also interesting to think, in spite of the conceit of our show and our expertise on alternate universes in comics, I don't know, in movies. So it may be in 1946, certainly mainstream Hollywood movies. I suspect there wasn't really an alternate universe at that point. True. So it could be one of the originators on screen of that concept, perhaps.

>> Rob: Yeah. Oh, I definitely think you're. And almost dealing with the celestial in that way. And also, Lionel Barrymore is one like the all time great villains in it as Mr. Potter. But we've seen so many, just a few weeks ago or last week, we watched it's a wonderful knife, which.

>> Guido: Is a new horror movie. Yeah, it's okay, but just the idea and of course, the play on words in the title is great.

>> Rob: And then you and I have been watching it, christmas, episodes of tv shows, and so every feels like every single sitcom from the 80s or 90s did at least one. It's a wonderful lifestyle episode. Yeah, I'm sure we'll see some more, but let us jump into our sleigh and ride off into origins of the story. Right now on this very show, you're going to get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago, and for today's origin of the story, we are discussing teen titans number three from DC comics from 2011. This is the first appearance of Bunker.

>> Guido: And this is written by Scott Labdell. Penciled by Brett Booth, inked by Norm Raffman, colored by Andrew Dollhouse, lettered by Denzi Cienti and edited by Bobby Chase. It is, of course, part of the new 52 reboot. So this is when the entire DC Universe is hard rebooted, full stop. Every single title starts new, new characters, new concepts. So at this point, the Titans aren't even a team yet. In fact, Miguel is probably part of what makes them a, ah, team. Our main focal point character is Tim Drake, who's red Robin in this. So Miguel, Jose Barragen is raised in a small village in Mexico. He has the power to summon light bricks from thin air and use as he sees fits. He can construct them into a wall, a fist, a, vehicle, anything like that. Actually quite similar to how they've modified Kamala Khan's powers both in the tv shows and also in the comics.

>> Rob: I was wondering if that was even an inspiration for too many episodes with hard light powers.

>> Guido: I mean, it's essentially, a Sci-Fi trope. So he's created by Booth and this issue for this series to be an out gay character. And I like, there's lots of interviews with Lobdell out there talking about the desire to have a character who doesn't have a lot of trauma, who is just gay, did not suffer from that, is out, is comfortable and I think that's really cool. Of course, Scott Labdell wrote North Star's outing, which is not that it is a lot more dramatic. It's also a lot earlier. It's 30 years ago now in Alpha flight, and so it's cool to see. Quick summary. We'll talk about his intro. We won't talk about the Teen Titans new 52 story. So in the new 52 universe, he's in Teen Titans. He ends up with having a boyfriend. Later in Teen Titans, he's a regular character member of the team. Almost sort of prompts the formation of the team here because he's trying to find Tim Drake. He's really obsessed with Robin and this idea of being a hero and he's very. And so he's a major part of it. And then he goes into Red Hood's story. he leaves the Teen Titans, goes into Red Hood's story. They actually co own the iceberg lounge for a little bit together. I've not read that he's part of Teen Titans Academy. So now we're in the rebirth era which fuses the new 52 continuity with the prime Earth and continuity. So he's a part of Teen Titans Academy. That series sadly ended a few years ago, but is a great short run that he's a part of. And then he's in a lot of these JLQ, these DC pride one shots. He pops up. He's actually the person who takes Tim Drake, newly bisexual, out Tim Drake, to pride for the first time, when he has his coming out. So they're positioning him as an important character, even though there's not a whole lot of content with him. So let's talk about his first appearance. Let's talk about the creation of this character and your first introduction to him. What do you think?

>> Rob: Yeah, right away. He's a super fun character. Colorful. Like you said, he doesn't have a lot of trauma. In fact, actually, he's incredibly self aware and has a high opinion of himself from the, moment that we see the character as well. And I thought it was interesting too, though we're talking so much about his queerness, and that's not even mentioned in this first episode. It much more focuses on his Latinx identity.

>> Guido: Yeah, I think there's a little coded stuff in there. I don't know if there was a desire to be subtle or a desire to say, like, people who are just out in the world don't lead with that. I mean, you and I are great examples of that who are 100% out and comfortable. And that means when we meet new people, it's not like you're like, oh, by the way, I'm gay.

>> Rob: Right.

>> Guido: That doesn't happen when you are like that. So it's actually well constructed, if that was the intent, because there's some stuff he says where he talks about being unique and he talks about being flamboyant or eccentric or something. There's a few pieces of language where you sort of get a feel for it. But, yeah, he doesn't say, like, oh, by the way, old man, who's actually Tim in disguise.

>> Rob: I'm gay. Yeah, but almost some of that too. And I don't know what your opinion on this asla as the Latin x person is. Some of that, I feel like, also gets conflated with some Latinx identity. Totally, totally. So many of those classic, like, Antonio Banderas, bad bunny. No, totally. Yeah.

>> Guido: Bad Bunny plays with identity a lot, and we don't know if he identifies as straight or not. But Maluma is another good example. Maluma is partnered to a woman having a child. In fact, recently I saw, but is also very flamboyant and very expresses, himself in a way that, yeah, you don't typically see. And some of that does align more with Latinx identity.

>> Rob: Well, even going back to Zoro, which is an inspiration for Batman, which is linked to Tim Drake, even. It all comes back to Zorro.

>> Guido: Yeah. So he's a really fun character. I wish there was just more seminal work with him. He's not been in the new Teen Titans iteration. They sort of went back to basics, and Tom Taylor's writing titans now, so that would be extraordinary for Tom to write Bunker, but I'm glad that he's still popping up, including in what else we read today. And he's a fun character, and I totally respect Labdell and Booth for having a goal in creating him.

>> Rob: And do you think that. Why do you think he was brought in? I know they wanted to have this queer character, but do you think they wanted to increase the diversity of the comic in 2011? Sure.

>> Guido: And look at what other comics should have it. I mean, you're not very familiar with the new Teen Titans. No, the original run and just how X Men it is, but it has zero queerness. I don't even think it has queer codedness to the extent that Claremont did. And while it's diverse, there's not a Latin X person. I'm trying to even think who that first character would be in the original Teen Titans. So it makes total sense that you would have that team be the one to say, like, hey, wait, whose identities aren't being represented? Well, they should be part of teen titans, because teen titans are supposed to be reflective of young people and a diverse group of people coming together and mixing their personalities and identities and all of that. So I think it makes a ton of sense.

>> Rob: Well, let's shimmy down the chimney into our next segment, which is exploring multiversity.

>> Guido: I am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the.

>> Rob: Question, what if? And today we are asking the question, what if? Extrandio showed Bunker from the former teen titan, a world without him before heading to a JLQ Christmas party. And this is a story in the very new twas the might before Christmas anthology book from DC Comics. And this just came out in December, 2023.

>> Guido: Yes. And the story that we read is written by Drotch Trujillo. It's drawn by Andrew Drillen. It's lettered by Lucas Gatoni, edited by Michael McAllister. So the artist on this, Andrew Drillin, did Shazam Theory of the Gods in 2023, but is mostly otherwise independent, self published work and has some creator own stuff. Rob and Elliot, comic art, dear friend, have followed him online for years because just a great all around artist that it's fun to see getting more work.

>> Rob: Yeah, I had seen his stuff pop up and I was following. I was like, oh, this is really cute and very queer and diverse. And then when I saw the artist's name, I was like, oh, my gosh, I've m followed this person for several years now. And I think he and Elliot have corresponded a bit, so it was great to see him moving into this work with DC.

>> Guido: Yeah. And Josh is popping up more and more, which is great. He's an editor and writer. He co created Aaron Fisher, the Captain America of the trailways, which is the queer Captain America. He's writing Blue Beetle now. He recently wrote a Baron von Stubin biocomic. Baron von Stuuben was Washington's general who ended up writing the book that the army still uses to train military and was a hugely flamboyant gay man. And I love that Josh is unearthing that history.

>> Rob: I remember you mentioning him to me.

>> Guido: Yeah, he's fascinating. So lot of fun to see this story coming from Josh. And so a quick summary. It features another character, drummer Boy. So drummer Boy is actually a non binary character created by Cena Grace for DC Pride, who idolize the Pied Piper. So that's essentially who they are. And so in this story, Bunker fights drummer Boy, but starts feeling a little down on himself that no one knows who he is and that the titans didn't reach out to him to be on their team since they have recently reformed.

>> Rob: And just as Bunker wonders if the world would be better off without him, extranyo appears and whisks Bunker off to an alternate universe where because Bunker doesn't exist, the titans have been transformed into creepy, big teeth clones.

>> Guido: Yes, these are the aliens from Invasion, the mega DC comics plot invasion. I can't remember their names. So Bunker and extranyo defeat these evil titans, return to prime Earth main continuity, where Bunker now realizes that he is indeed needed. He can inspire others just by being heroic, even if he is not actively working as a hero. And he ends up meeting a fan and heading to Extranyo's Christmas party with all, perhaps most, if not of DC's queer characters gathered together celebrating the holidays. And a good number of those characters are jewish. So I guess it's not a Christmas party, it's a holiday party. But yeah, that's the story. What'd you think?

>> Rob: I thought it was very fun. I mean, it's only a few pages long, so it doesn't go too much into this alternate universe. But especially, I think I want to actually call out a lot of the, art by Andrew because, he did the colors as well, and everything is super bright. It's got this kind of cartoonish, hue to it that I think really fits a fun Christmassy story like this one. What about you?

>> Guido: Yeah, and matches with some of the pride, very much of the JLQ, like Luciano Vecchio, past guest on the show, friend of the show. He has done a lot of the art for these queer short stories and it has that same kind of cartoony style. So I think that is a great fit tonally and is a lot of fun. I also love, before we get into the title of the, short story, which is it's a bunker of full life and that concept, I love the positioning of Extranyo. I think it's so great that what's been true for JLQ stories and all these queer DC character stories is they're positioning him as like the old guard, the mentor. And I love that, it's a good position for him both in terms of a power set and in terms of a personality. He's known also for being flamboyant. Also, Latinx is, of course, a major ripoff on Doctor Strange. And they lean into that. There's a joker says bunker, says strange, and extrano says not strange, extrano. Which of course, extrano means strange in.

>> Rob: Mean, even the look here, especially mean, you know the character much better than I do. But yeah, he looks like it would be Doctor Strange only with a purple cape instead of a red cape.

>> Guido: It's fun that they've leaned into the fact we know that Marvel and DC both have tons of ripoff characters of each other. And it's fun when they lean into that and play with that. So then we get the it's a bunkerful life, the it's a wonderful life, what's his name? And it's a wonderful life. George Bailey.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: So the George Bailey moment of this when Bunker has to imagine the world without him.

>> Rob: And we don't get too much of that. All we know is because he's not there, the Teen Titans have been defeated and been now transformed into these evil alien clones. So we don't know why really not having Bunker in this universe has that result. No.

>> Guido: And we don't need to.

>> Rob: Yeah. No. And Extrenao does have a line of something along the lines of, yeah, you were the key to keeping this together. And I think that's just what so much of these it's a wonderful life stories are about, where it's like you don't know the ramifications that you could be the person that holds the universe together. You don't actually know that until you don't exist.

>> Guido: Yeah, I agree. And what's fun here is that because it's not a character we have a deep emotional investment in. Even if someone loves Bunker, there's just not enough that you've developed the sort of relationship you do with some other characters where that would become clear. It would become really clear in a story with a mega famous character.

>> Rob: If Batman didn't exist, Marvel, the world.

>> Guido: Would be very immediately get like, okay, I get it. The world would totally change. So what I like here, that the message is from Extrano, is what I mentioned in the summary. I love this idea that what he's teaching Bunker and teaching all of us by teaching Bunker, is that it doesn't matter if you're on the latest superhero team. It doesn't matter if you are in the newspaper for being a hero. Those things don't matter if you are heroic, if you are living by the values of being a moral hero who's out to make the world a better place, people will be inspired by you. And I really think that's a great message because it works on that meta level where it's like, it's okay, that bunker is not the star of a team book right now would I love it? Yes. But he's not. And yet he can still be a really powerful character. So I like the fact that that message works both in the story and on the meta level also.

>> Rob: Yeah. And it kind of speaks to, I think, fans who go, oh. Why isn't this character in more? And it's almost saying, well, this character is there. He's in the background right now, but he's not gone. We haven't forgotten him. He's still doing his heroic thing. He'll be back one day. He doesn't need to be at the center of things right now.

>> Guido: Yeah. So I think that's a really fun aspect of this short story.

>> Rob: We should party. Yeah, let's go to the party and go through everyone who's on the page, literally. Do you. Oh, do I want to go to the party? Sure. I work from home, so I don't get to go to any Christmas party. So any Christmas party, I think, actually sounds good right now, but it seems like a fun group of people.

>> Guido: who are you hanging out with at that party.

>> Rob: Okay, well, we'll go through everybody and then we'll try to see, because there was a couple of characters I didn't know, but you knew who they were. And a few people we don't. A couple of people we don't identify. So we can put it up on Instagram and maybe people can tell us who they are. So we've got, of course, poison Ivy and Harley, who we've talked about so much on the show. And then that's behind Apollo and Midnighter.

>> Guido: Midnighter. And then we've got on the right side, Alan Scott and Obsidian. And Alan's got a, ah, great daddy beard going on.

>> Rob: He does. And he's there with his son, which is.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, it's very nubia.

>> Rob: And someone from the flash family as well there.

>> Guido: I can't remember the name of that flash character, but yeah, and then we've got flashes.

>> Rob: We've got the person talking to Bunker. We don't really see who that is. No. Wearing a Santa hat.

>> Guido: It supposed to be like generic, attractive man that he kisses under the mistletoe or if it's someone, my first thought was that it's John Kent, but it's not because John is up in the background with his boyfriend.

>> Rob: And then we've got Renee Montoya and John Constantine, who are, of course, hanging out in their trench coats over to the side, probably in the smoking section.

>> Guido: I'd have to imagine it is definitely the smoking section. I love that. And Batwoman.

>> Rob: Yes. And then who was that next to Batwoman? I wasn't familiar with that person in the yellow and the Batman like outfit.

>> Guido: That was the star of the recent spirit world title, which is part of the big API push that happened at DC. so she got her powers during the Lazarus dark fate or there. I think they are non binary and they go by Xanthi. and I don't know if they go by spirit world or if that was just the name of the title, but yeah, their name is Xanthe or Xanthe. So they are there with Batwoman. Next to Batwoman is Catman Ghostmaker, two of the most chaotic bisexuals there are, and then crush Lobo's daughter. We've got dreamer, star of the DC CW universe, who then makes her transition to comics, which is very cool to see.

>> Rob: And then Aqua lad over there with another person. I don't quite know who it is.

>> Guido: But that's one of the only, I.

>> Rob: Don'T know, blue and yellow outfit. And he has a little a on his outfit, too. So I'm not sure who that is.

>> Guido: I don't know that one. I don't know. I'm sure we can figure it out, but we didn't figure it out before this. And then, of course, extranyo, host of the evening with his partner, tasmanian.

>> Rob: Devil. Yeah. So what, a super fun. And this must have been so fun to draw, to put all these. How often do you get to put all these characters into one and put your own individual spin on who all of them are? And some of them, I don't know. Is Alan sober? Because Alan's got, like, Alan and Siddian have coffee cups. Well, a lot of other people, they all have no poison Ivy and Harley have champagne flutes.

>> Guido: Well, they're them.

>> Rob: Yes. I don't. They brought their own, Oh, that's true. I think Nubia's got a mug, too.

>> Guido: Yeah, but no Catman and Ghostmaker. They also have champagne glasses.

>> Rob: Okay, but you said they're sort of as well.

>> Guido: Yeah, exactly. They're distinguishing the people who would be drinking from the people who wouldn't be. And I love. I don't know if you noticed. I just zoomed in and noticed the present that Apollo is, giving midnighter or that midnighter has picked up to check the tag says for Luciano.

>> Rob: Oh, my gosh. How amazing.

>> Guido: So great. Nod to the original JLQ artist, Luciano Vecchio. So it is so fun. It's also fun to me that these are becoming a regular thing at, DC. They're so committed to this little pocket of the universe that obviously every pride issue has some connection to the JLQ, but there's been a few holiday issues now that have made connections. So I think it's becoming anytime they have these short story anthology books, I think they're putting it in. And some of that is, even market wise, what used to be true for these anthology books, I think it's less true, but might still be the case here, is they were a place to test out characters. Totally. So in a lot of the Marvel superhero summer specials or stuff like that, they would put stories with characters that they were trying to see if there was interest in, if they could support a solo title, or in some cases, if the solo title couldn't be supported, they'd move that character into the anthology book.

>> Rob: Well, I think we've seen a little bit of that with Alan Scott as a character. Right. We got to explore a lot more of his queer story in the DC pride. And now he does have his own solo title. So that's a kind of a sample of that.

>> Guido: He's in a miniseries. M. And we will be talking about that in the new year for, So I don't think we want to go back to the, it's a bunkerful life Earth, where Bunker doesn't exist. And they're the Dominators, by the way, those aliens. So we don't want the Titans as dominators, but I think we want to go to prime Earth, where there's a big queer holiday party.

>> Rob: Yes. Well, let's talk more about the JLQ in our final segment. It's time to ponder some possibilities. Will the future you describe be averted, diverted. Diverted. And, Guido, what are we talking about for our pondering possibilities today?

>> Guido: Well, we're going to keep this one short. It's the end of the year. Everyone needs to get off to their holiday parties instead of listening to us. So let's just talk JLQ. Let's talk this construction. What do we want the future of it to be? This is the most recent moment with. This isn't even quite a moment with the team, but this is the most recent moment with kind of part of the team and extranyo's leadership of. So what do you want? A solo book of JLQ?

>> Rob: Yes, totally. I mean, we just got done saying that Bunker doesn't need to be on a team, but it would be so great to do a team book with these characters. It kind of just seems like a no brainer, especially as it seems that the queer comic audience has gotten, if not bigger, certainly more louder over the years. And I would love to see all these characters interact and deal with almost X Men like problems in that way.

>> Guido: Well, and that's the thing. Each of these short story installments has been really character driven, had emotional beats. They're usually about someone coming to terms with something, because, of course, so much of queer existence is negotiating who you are and how that fits in the world and trauma or loss or change or chosen family versus family you're born into. And all these things are such a core part of the identity that I think that's why they're in the short stories. So for sure, if there was going to be an ongoing or even miniseries, it would have to be very character driven. There's not going to be a lot of plot with the JLQ. They're going to have to be a Claremont era X Men book where there's lots of talking and lots of characters negotiating who they are with each other. And I want that for sure.

>> Guido: I'm curious why it hasn't happened. I'm not. Did they've done it? I think twice now and they've since abandoned it. But DC did this round robin thing where they had fans actually vote for books they wanted to see in like a bracketed system. And JLQ made it pretty far, but didn't win. I think it lost to the Robbins, which then was a, miniseries by Tim Seeley that won and they published. So there's a JLQ pitch somewhere, because I'm sure they wouldn't have even put it out there as a possibility if they weren't ready. So I am curious why they don't do even four issue miniseries or something around pride in the summer. But I'm sure one day do you.

>> Rob: Think they should be facing off against someone like Captain Nazi or Durgegaton? Like one of the nazi fascist villains in the DC regime?

>> Guido: It depends. I mean, that creates quite, good versus evil. I think some of the more interesting stories might be the kind of antihero or again, because the moral complexity and the, How do I figure out who I am? I think is such a core part that I think, yeah, if it's an ongoing title, sure, once in a while, going up against the most, horrible, hate filled DC version of hate monger that you can imagine, it would be fun and make sense, but I actually think they'd be better off know the same way Claremont era X Men used magneto and Emma Frost and these people who you could have a real conversation with and start to understand.

>> Rob: Yeah. Well, what about, And maybe, you know, if there's one exist, like a queer villain that is like, then a. Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe. Well, I was thinking someone with more power than maybe like a magneto in that way where it's gets a power upgrade. That's true. Yeah. But the character that's really trying to. That's trying to fight for queer liberation, but doing it in that magneto way where it doesn't matter who they kill in order to do it, and then you have the JQL in the X Men mode of like, well, we want liberation as well. We want equality, but we want to do it the right. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Guido: I love that.

>> Rob: I think there's also room for your pitch ready. And I think there's also room maybe to explore some bias in superheroes as well. Like, is there a straight DC superhero who's like, I like them being superheroes, but do they have to be out so much. Do they have to be so flamboyant? There must be a carrie. Hal Jordan.

>> Guido: Hal Jordan's always been positioned the conservative.

>> Rob: So it could be Hal. And before we go, I also just was curious, would you also want to see the it's a Wonderful Life concept done with other characters? Like, of course, we've had these ongoing series, like, one bad day, which has taken a concept and applied it to all characters. So would you all ever be interested in seeing. Okay, what's the. It's a wonderful life for Batman. What's it for? Wonder Woman. What's it for? The Green Lantern? Is that.

>> Guido: Yeah, I think what would be hard is to not make it repetitive, but I think that it's a cool idea. And even maybe that could be DC's holiday book next year. Was each of these characters facing a world where they don't exist. And again, you have to make sure it doesn't become redundant, where it's like every world is worse off because I didn't exist. Of course, you can't have the world better off because you didn't exist because.

>> Rob: Well, I'm curious if there's either. Yeah, there's something that they could do with, like, a Superman type character. Where are people learning to actually stand on their own without his defense? But obviously they can't end it that way.

>> Guido: But something like that being like, okay, then I'll just leave the world.

>> Rob: I'll retire.

>> Guido: I should never have existed.

>> Rob: Sorry. No, but I do think there's room for the black and white there, the gray area to explore in some of these characters. I'd love to see that as a holiday book with choose five characters, maybe even choose a villain. Like, what if you decided to have a world where the Joker doesn't exist? It would seem like it's a much better world, but maybe there's some other fun things to play around with that, too.

>> Guido: Yeah, I'm sure they could do it. It's basically a book of multiverses, so we would be there for wrap.

>> Rob: We got to get before Santa comes.

>> Guido: Exactly. Dear Watchers, thank you for listening.

>> Rob: I have been Guido and I have been Rob.

>> Guido: The reading list is in the show notes. You can follow us on most social.

>> Rob: Media at dear watchers and leave us a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.

>> Guido: In the meantime, in the words of Uatu, keep pondering the possibilities.

>> Rob: Oh, ho, ho.