Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

>> Rob: Vroom, vroom. And welcome to Dear Watchers, an omniversal comic book podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

>> Guido: We are traveling with you on our motorcycles through the stories and the worlds that make up an omniverse of fictional realities we all love. And, with you during this word burger today, a phrase that im excited to talk about that shows up in our universe are me, Guido, and me.

>> Rob: The Rob warrior.

>> Guido: I thought you'd be for Mad Rob.

>> Rob: Oh, no, the Rob warrior. Of course. That was the very first thing when we said we were discussing this universe. I was like, oh, I'm gonna be the Rob warrior. I got it.

>> Guido: I was torn between Gediosa, and.

>> Rob: Oh, my God. Oh, Geidiosa is much better.

>> Guido: Oh, you should, then. I sound like a he man villain.

>> Rob: That too. Yes. Well, before we begin our trip on this highway to hell today, australian band, by the way. Oh, look. That, that matches with this universe. What's new in our little section of the multiverse? Guido?

>> Guido: We finished Exa 97 like the rest of the world did. Also. And, no spoilers. We won't be talking about it today. One day we'll talk about it. But it was great. So go watch.

>> Rob: You still recovering?

>> Guido: Yeah, I watched it twice immediately. I'm sure I'll watch it all again and again and again. And that's really exciting. So that's fun. Also, this.

>> Rob: You're also, I was gonna say you're also recovering from the price of X Men books and how they have jumped in value since everyone is now an X Men fan.

>> Guido: Don't remind me. But yes, luckily we have a home we can mortgage. So we also submitted our pro applications for New York Comic Con. Very exciting. My favorite time of the year. And coming up this October will be, of course, at New York Comic Con and hope to see some of our listeners and friends and fellow podcasters and creators that we've had on the show. All there in New York City.

>> Rob: I'm staring at my plush pizza rat right now is in the very room. I'm sitting up on a high shelf because that's the one thing that the dog really seems to want to devour, but he can't. That's my toy.

>> Guido: Well, this year, this year they had a theme of, like, bodega. I don't know if you've seen their marketing. It's fun, actually. All the stuff is Bodega, so they go for very New York, iconic things. And, today's episode is speaking of iconic, both iconic and timely. We have so rarely had an immediate tie in. But because our schedule went every two weeks and because we're busy people, but this one is really fresh and we're excited. But just so you know, before we even get into our topic, we are not spoiling anything we have not seen seen the Furiosa movie. So if you are listening or thinking of listening to the rest of this episode, don't worry, we have no spoilers for anything that is out in the Mad Max universe. This year, 2024, we're gonna be looking back at what got us here.

>> Rob: We were not at Cannes. I think that would be the only way to see the movie as of this recording, or to have been there, which we were not. But if you are joining us for the first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse today. Origins of the story, exploring multiversity and pondering possibilities. So thanks for jumping in your car and coming along.

>> Guido: And remember, leave us a five star review wherever you're listening, and find us on social mediaear watchers.

>> Rob: And with that, dear Watchers, welcome to episode 134, and let's check out what's happening in the omniverse with our travels to today's alternate universe. Today we put the pedal to the metal to answer the question, what if Furiosa of Mad Max barely appeared in a comic of her own name, but remained the best character ever?

>> Guido: She is. She is. It's true. As is this question. Yeah, this is a weird one. So we'll call it earthmm. It's Earth Mad Max. So unusually for us, this is probably a canonical story. It's not an alternate universe, but it is the only comic book installation of this story. So we decided to cover it. We decided it fits into the deer Watchers platform. We'll explore a little bit about the prime continuity and if it fits in. And of course, it'll be determined for sure if it's canonical after the forthcoming movie release of ah, Furioso, which is due out in just a few days from this episode's release here in May 2024. So we are going to get into again the universe up until Furiosa, nothing about the movie Furiosa, but we're going to be talking prime canon. And what is prime canon in the Mad Max universe?

>> Rob: And speaking of the Mad Max universe, Guido, what is your background with this post apocalyptic? Sometimes almost post apocalyptic. Definitely apocalyptic universe.

>> Guido: This is a story I like. I don't even know how much you know about this story, but I came to Mad Max in my probably late twenties. So as a child I had seen beyond Thunderdome and really couldn't make sense of it.

>> Rob: The most kid friendly movie, I guess there's a little kid in it too, right? So.

>> Guido: Yeah, but it had Tina Turner, so the most gay friendly movie also. That's also true. So I used to watch that, but it didn't really stick with me. And I don't know that I even saw the first two, really. And then I don't actually remember what compelled me, but I remember at some point in my late twenties, being finally willing to visit this world and think, like, okay, people like this world. I hate cars. I don't tend to love post apocalypse stories. I don't like Mel Gibson. Like, there was not a lot going for it for me, but I watched it and was amazed. I completely fell in love with it. I watched the first three movies, and the first two, I couldn't believe, how much I found that I liked. I liked how we'll talk more about this, I think, a bit. But just what got me then was how political and social they were, how much commentary there was in them. I had no idea that that was going to be true. And so I then considered myself a big fan and loved the three movies we saw. Furiosa when it came out, fury road. When it came out, fury road. We saw Fury Road when it came out in the theaters. Utterly obsessed. I will say more when we talk about it, but it has lived in my top five movies of all time. It will probably forever live there. I absolutely love it. We saw it multiple times in the theaters. and from that, I read the comic books. I did not play the video game, which we will talk about today, but I consume. I read the oral history of Fury Road. I'm excited for the forthcoming oral history of the entire franchise. So I'm a big fan of Mad Max at this point, and it was a late arrival, I'd say, what about you with Mad Max? Because you're a bit younger, so you might not have been in the beyond Thunderdome craze that I was.

>> Rob: No, I wasn't. And, yeah, that is probably the movie that a lot of kids got into and had the big theme song as well, but no good theme song. Yeah, I think my parents liked the movie, or my dad liked the movie. So at some point, I was given the DVD of the first film when I was in high school, and I didn't buy it myself, so they must have, like, bought it for me and thought, like, oh, this is the kind of movie that Rob would like. And I watched the original movie a few times and watched road Warrior. I don't think I actually saw beyond Thunderdome until years later. It was never something that I loved until I think I saw Fury Road like you, and then kind of went back and then really liked the other ones because the first two movies, especially are such, like this beige brown palette, which, of course, is both very australia and also very apocalyptic. But I think there was something about that look. It was like, oh, I wasn't really gravitating towards that. I wanted something maybe more colorful or more like black and white. But then, yeah, now it's definitely a franchise that I really love. And you and I have rewatched some of those earlier movies as well, and they work so well as a cohesive whole, which we'll talk more about right now.

>> Guido: Yeah, and there's a muffler going by that's probably coming through on our microphone. So it's like we're living in the Mad Max universe.

>> Rob: That's true. That's true.

>> Guido: And you never read the comics. so there's not a lot to consume in the Mad Max universe, which we will talk about. But you've only consumed the movies prior to this episode. Yeah.

>> Rob: All right, so, yeah, let's fuel up our car with some guzzling and head out into origins of the story. Right now on this very show, you're gonna get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago.

>> Guido: So let's do some background on Mad Max as a franchise for our origin. What's included in that? What stories and mediums have been a part of this post apocalyptic wasteland? And figure out what prime canon is. Take us away.

>> Rob: Okay, so mastermind George Miller was an australian medical doctor. I forgot this until I was doing research that he's actually George Miller, and he had actually seen many horrible injuries from car crashes. And this would play a role in formulating this idea. And he was in residency at a Sydney hospital, and he met this amateur filmmaker named Byron Kennedy. They created award winning short film together. Then eight years later with the screenwriter, M. James McCuzzle, and I probably butchered that name. They made the original Mad Max film, which they actually described as a silent movie, with which I love. And especially if you've seen that movie or even Fury road, you can kind.

>> Guido: Of, I saw articles about Furiosa that, like, I think Anya Taylor Joy has 30 lines or something like that. I love it.

>> Rob: Well, that first movie only cost about $300 to $400,000, and it actually grossed over 100 million. So huge success. It was followed by Mad Max two, which was released as the road Warrior in the US because, you know, here we. It's like the metric system. We have to do our own thing.

>> Guido: Well, I couldn't believe when we were learning about this franchise to learn that they actually redubbed so that he wouldn't have an australian accent, that, yeah, the.

>> Rob: Original was redubbed at one point with an american accent. And then obviously Mel Gibson wasn't a star yet, but, yeah, then next to Road Warrior was released in the US, and that actually outperformed the original in the United States, in part because of the new rental market, was that huge, big rental. But then producer and co creator Kennedy died in a helicopter crash in 1983. Miller was actually reluctant to continue the series, but did decide to continue on with beyond Thunderdome. He actually co directed that movie due to his very busy schedule at the time.

>> Guido: And this film feels like two movies.

>> Rob: Yeah, it kind of feels like two movies. Yeah. And the other guy worked on, like, miniseries, so I don't know if he had a lot of features experience. Yeah, it's kind of a mismatch and had a much bigger budget but also a much lower box office. It did give us, of course, Tina Turner and one of her iconic looks and the song we don't need another hero. Including sexy Saxman on Saxon in the music video as well. And then Miller came up with the idea of Fury Road in 1987, but it was in development hell for years. He continued to develop with designs and storyboards and working on the script that his script, he's so over, all over the place. So he directed the Witches of Eastwick, he made Babe Pig in the city.

>> Guido: And then he, of course, famously developed Justice League for many years.

>> Rob: Yeah, Justice League, yeah. And then one of his other movies, which is very un mad Max like, was happy feet, huge hit in 2005. So he actually decided he probably had a lot of cache in Hollywood at the time.

>> Guido: I think in the oral history, I think it's actually, if memory serves, in the oral history, I think it's explicit. I think he made a deal to, get Fury Road made while, like, because of the happy feet success or something like, there was something, I think, really directly as a result of that.

>> Rob: So, yeah, that movie, huge success. And then he decided to revisit Fury Road. It was shot in 2012, but not released until 2015. Obviously, lots of post production on that movie if you've seen it. And despite a budget of $150 to $100 million, $180 million, which is a lot more than the 300,000 of the original movie. It was a huge critical and commercial success, made almost $400 million won six out of its ten Oscar nominations, was nominated for best picture, and that's actually a record for australian films. And it was on many, of course, best of the decades lists, some best of the all time lists, like your own list, Guido. And that next film, Furiosa, comes out next week as of recording this week, this week still directed by George Miller, co written by Nico Lathoros, who co wrote Fury Road and today's comic. And that person actually appeared as an actor way back in the original Mad Max film. So this is very much a family business of people who come and go throughout this franchise.

>> Guido: Yeah. And oddly, although perhaps because it is, such a tightly controlled iPad, and I am sure and excited to learn from the forthcoming history book more about the ownership and how he's split that and how he's made deals, because for such a world, there is so little in this world for a movie that has had so much success. Even if you assume, like, okay, beyond Thunderdome maybe sort of killed the franchise a little post fury road, you'd think you'd just be seeing Mad Max things everywhere, but you don't. And so, in fact, the rest of the world of Mad Max is told only through a few things. First, there are three novelizations of the first three movies. We have not read them. Don't worry, they're now on my eBay watch list. And that's it. In terms of the first three movies, video games, there've been a good number of fits and starts. There's a famously canceled VHS game that was supposed to be really strange from the 1980s. There was a 1990 NES game, really critically panned. No plot, no story, very little tying it to Mad Max. There is a 1992 Genesis game called Outlander, which was developed as a Mad Max road Warrior game, but they lost the license, so they rebranded it, and then there's some cancelled games in between, including some Miller himself is working on. It's not until 2015 that Avalanche Studios and Warner Brothers Interactive released Mad Max, which is the most ambitious of the video games. Pretty well received and critically reviewed, has a story was developed pre Fury road, though they ended up mapping Fury road elements onto it to tie it in. So it is canonical and interestingly, has a deep, connection to the comic that we read today. So we're calling it canonical and it is, tied into our universe today for sure, but that is it. And then today's comics, which we'll get more into in our second segment, are the only comic book adaptations of this world at all.

>> Rob: Yeah, it's so strange because, of course, one thing I read over and over again was Batman 89, comic book adaptation growing up, and it just seemed like every movie, and we have, like, free, Jack, the comic adaptation.

>> Guido: Yeah. Dark man. The comic adaptation.

>> Rob: Dark man.

>> Guido: So many things.

>> Rob: It's just so strange. And this feels like, of all things, it would 100% just be a great comic, even if it came in after, of course, the original movie was, like, a surprise success. So even if it came years later in like, the middle of the eighties, late eighties, you would go, of course they would then eventually adapt it. So I don't know if that's a choice or someone else.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: So, but for our, first segment here, origins of the story, we'll focus on prime canon from those first four movies, but really talk about Fury roads, since that's what our comic book universe ties into today. So those movies are Mad Max from 1979, directed by George Miller, written by James McCausland and Miller with Byron Kennedy. Mad Max two, aka Road Warrior from 1981, directed by Miller, written by Terry Hayes, George Miller and Brian Hannant. And Mad Beyond Thunderdome from 85, directed by Miller and George Ogilvy, written by Terry Hayes and George Miller. Then we take a huge leap to Mad Fury Road, literally 30 years later, directed by George Miller, written by George Miller, Brendan McCarthy, and Nico Lathoris. So, okay, our listeners now know we both love Fury Road. It's one of my favorite movies ever. let's talk about why. Who should start.

>> Rob: I think one of the things we said last night after rewatching the movie is that it just for a two hour movie, it goes by so quickly. And I think one of the great things about it is it just. It doesn't feel the need to follow any kind of Hollywood playbook in terms of plotting. It's just suddenly the movie starts. It doesn't give you the backstory. It's about probably like 20 or 30 minutes until you even come up for air.

>> Guido: And then, it does start and barely stop. Yes.

>> Rob: Yeah. And then you just. And then you get, like, nice, like a lull. It's almost like a concert, I'm thinking, where, like, you want to start with the songs that really grip you, but then if you're going at that speed the entire time, you'd kind of zone out. So then you need the ballad in the middle, and then you kind of need to end with another big one again.

>> Guido: Yeah, that's a really good comparison, actually, as a concert pacing, because it does, in my mind, it starts and you're just adrenalized the whole time. But then I was reminded, like, oh, no, there are beats, but they hit at unusual times. It doesn't build in an arc like a traditional narrative does. Yeah. So I think the pacing is a huge part of it. I think for me, it's so many things. It's the pacing, it's the visuals, it's the soundtrack is, just extraordinary. But the thing that makes it an obvious choice for us to be talking about on this show and the reason that we have this show and have talked a lot about over our 134 episodes is the world building.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: I think it is just stunning to me that this movie is so ambitious, has so much depth, and yet trusts the audience completely because there is almost nothing gets explained. I can't even think. I don't think I would call any of the lines exposition in that movie. There is no one is explaining anything to anyone. And yet it still works. You, completely. You don't need to know how immortan Joe rose to power, although we learn it in the comics, which we'll talk about. You don't need to know how the citadel functions. You don't need to know why the war boys spray their faces with silver and are obsessive cars like, you. You get it. You just get it all. You don't need to know why, Morton Joe's skin is all bubbly and why his children are all mutated. Like, none of this, none of it matters. And yet it's all so important. And clearly, Miller, we know, has a bible of this world. He has the world mapped out. And it's so incredible to me that each aspect of it, when you meet the Volvolini, when you, have the wives be like, the reveal that what Furios is doing, when you have the bullet farmers versus the gas hogs and gas city, the whole world is so sketched out and deep and yet not explained to you at all. And I love that.

>> Rob: Yeah. You know, the thing I thought that it actually reminded me of in. In this rewatch is. Is Star wars in some ways. And I think, like, Lucas was also someone who, like, really fleshed out, like, had, this big, like, bible. But then it's making me think, like, Star wars, the first one just starts and it's like, it's episode four. And like, wait, what. What's happened before this? And, like, here's Princess Leia, and she's a senator's daughter, but we never meet the senator. And all this. And also, Star wars. Like, this is just, like, full of these characters who have names who fans now love but are never named in the movie. Like, salacious crumb, like Jabba the Hutt's little, like, court jester. Like, people know that name, but nobody ever calls him that in the movie. It's just like, in the credits.

>> Guido: Like, there's the guitar guy. What's his name? Doof. And he's a warrior.

>> Rob: And everyone, if you know this movie, you know they never called him that. So it's like a similar thing where it's like, you can tell that those creators, Miller and Lucas, like, they knew exactly who every single person was gonna be in this. And every single person has a backstory. And now the fans have kind of absorbed it, but it somehow gets through to you because they know it. It's like when an actor knows their character's backstory, even if that doesn't come out. It's never mentioned in the exposition, but it somehow makes their performance so much better because they know their own backstory. And it's the same thing in the writing and direction here.

>> Guido: Well, and in that way too. It's interesting. It's funny you mentioned Star wars starting with episode four, which I think was a retcon, right? I don't think it, like, I don't think it's on.

>> Rob: I believe the original. The title was added later, but anyway.

>> Guido: Yeah, I don't think it was, like, here, what's part four of this new movie? But, But in this, this is, like, an, It's almost an early requel using the language of Scream seven. Because it's canonical. It's supposed to have followed the max we know, but that's not clear nor necessary. And that's really cool and really well done. Like, I remember, even when seeing this, not being totally sure, like, is that supposed to be the max we know? He's flashing back to his daughter getting killed, but he's also flashing back to this other girl getting killed, which relates to the comic we're about to read. So I, wasn't clear in 2015 if it was supposed to be the Max Rockatansky. And it is. Since then, George Miller has said, yes, this is one world. This is one character. But even that idea is very cool. And it's a little bit like other movies. But I thought of it because of the Star wars starting in part four, like, this one, you're not really clear where you're starting in the story. Even you and I were talking about where does, where does this fall? How much time has passed and you don't really know, nor do you really need to know. But it's fun to think about.

>> Rob: I would say almost everything in the Mad Max series are requels of themselves. Like, Road Warrior is very much almost a requel of the original Mad Max in many ways, because now it's like, oh, we're fighting another group of evil biker road people. And then even when you think back to the original film, in this film, one of the really cool things is that the main villain in both films are played by the same actor. The same actor plays a mort and Joe in Fury Road and toe Cutter in the first film. So it's almost like it's a requel, and you're almost thinking your headway could.

>> Guido: It's a little.

>> Rob: Could have warned Joe be toe Cutter. No, toe cutter, like, explodes. So it's like he can't be the same person, but it works in that way where it's like, oh, almost taking that original concept, it's like almost. What if toad Cutter became, like, a cult leader? Like,

>> Guido: Well, I even told you today that the name Furiosa says her mother is Concannon is in the original script. So not even used in the movie, but in Miller's original script for Mad Max, it's one of the rookie cops, involved in the, in the first movie. So, like, again, the architecture of this world is just so clearly laid out in, if not his mind, then probably on paper somewhere. And it makes it pay off enormously. Now, let's get into Furiosa a little since she's our, she's the reason we took this journey today, even though, well, we'll get into the comics. And obviously, our listeners learned the title of this episode. So she's not a huge part of the comics. She is a huge part of the movie, though. And I, think that is the coolest thing. I think this movie, I remember feeling this, seeing it for the first time and seeing it again for, I don't know, the 6th time last night reminded me the same feeling. This movie almost feels like a trojan horse. It feels like one of those movies where you're thinking you're going in watching a Mad Max movie and you're not. You're watching a Furiosa movie for sure. She is the protagonist of this movie.

>> Rob: Yeah, it's almost reminding me of two of what they did with the he man animated series on Netflix, too, where it's like, oh, it's masters of the universe. It's he man. And then the first season is actually like a story, and it has that similar thing here. And, of course, Max plays such a big part. But I think what Miller does so smartly is really give Furiosa the emotional beats in the story and the character development.

>> Guido: Like, Max. Max is sort of always Max. He, you know, he. He cares and he does things, but he wants to be alone, right? Like. Like, he doesn't change. And even in this movie, he doesn't change. He's always willing to protect the helpless, but he's always resistant because he needs to first protect himself, and then he's always gonna end up on his own. So, like, there's no change for him in this. But Furiosa is the one who, while the. The conflict of the movie, if you will, is created by her having a change of heart, and then you slowly are learning what that means to her and why and what she's trying to do. And she's like Max in some ways. She doesn't want to take him on, but then learns, to accept having an ally. So she has more of the arc, for sure.

>> Rob: What's interesting, though, is, and we'll get into this in a moment when we talk about the comic, so much of her arc actually occurs in the comic more, I almost would say, than in this movie.

>> Guido: Yeah, well, and, I mean, that's what's so interesting here, is, and this will be a good segue into our next segment, I think, is he. Miller had all of these ideas laid out for so many years that it's hard to tell what came first and what didn't. Right? Like, he's not really even retconning. Like, he had Furiosa as a movie in development while working on Fury road. And so the comics, like, are not. They're not being done after the movie, even though they're coming out with the movie. It's so hard to say. Like, again, he just knows everything that happened to Furiosa. So in the movie, we know these little bits or were, like, hinted at these little bits, but we don't have them fully fleshed out. Something like the comic can give us a little bit more, and then something like the movie coming out this week can give us even more. And none of it feels like it's been shoehorned in, even. And, I'm not trying to, like, join the criticizing Marvel bandwagon ever, because I love it, but you can tell when Marvel Kevin Vige always talks about all those connections. What happens is they just ask the writers and directors to, like, leave a bunch of doors open, and then they'll sort of go back in them and figure out what to do with it. And that is not what Miller is doing. Like, Miller has mapped this out. He is not just picking up loose threads. It's like, no, he knows everything about these characters.

>> Rob: Yeah, my weird, random, tangent. But one of my favorite all time Hollywood stories is with, like, the late Halloween franchise where, like, I completely went off the rails and there's an evil cult, and at the end of, I think it's Halloween five, like, a man all in black, Michael Myers has been arrested. And a man all in black unlocks the jail and lets Michael Myers out. And someone asked the director, so who is that man in black? And the director said, ah, that's for the director of movie six to figure out.

>> Guido: Exactly. See, that's the Marvel way. But, the Miller way is not that. And I'm sure he's making changes, of course, but, like, no, he has a series bible on these folks. And I think that's a good point for us to get in more info about these characters.

>> Rob: Okay, we are moving now into exploring multiversity. I am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question, what if? So this week, we are asking the question, what if Furiosa of Mad Max barely appeared in a comic of her own name? That comic is actually a comic book series of four comics called Mad Fury Road. And the individual issues we're discussing are Nux and immortan Joe number one, Furiosa number one, and Max number one and number two from July to October 2015, all from DC Comics. We also read the War Rig, which is a short story exclusive to the collected edition of the above issues, which I believe you said, guido has made this collected edition quite the collectible.

>> Guido: Well, like a lot of licensed comics, when the license is lost, these things will never be reprinted. So these are not available digitally. they're not available in any new collected editions. So, yeah, the out of print collected edition is astronomical right now. Obviously, the movie's hot, so I'm not surprised, but these are hard to track down. I hope people have them. The floppies are not super expensive. They obviously have increased in value with hype for the movie, but they are pretty available. So real quick on the credits. And there are a good number of credits. There's one key person here, and we'll focus in on him in a moment. But overall, writers are credited to George Miller and Nicola Thoris, and that's because of the story and the story bible that they're pulling from and the original. And then it's written primarily by Mark Sexton. More on him in a moment. Mark also does a lot of the pencils and art. The Max issues he does solo. But on, the nux and Morton, Joe Furiosa and war rig issues, he has a lot of help from Leandro Fernandez, Ricardo Bertielli, Andrea Mutti, Tristan Jones, Simon Krajansky, and Peter pound inkers. Mark is also credited, but has some help from those same folks. Leandro Fernandez, Ricardo Brickelli, Andrea Mutti, Tristan Jones, Simon Kradansky, and colors by Michael Spicer. Letters by Clem Robbins, with letters by Laverne Koenzerski. On the Warrig single, story and edited by Alex Antonella. The collection is edited by Jeb Woodward. So Nicole Thoris, I don't even think probably was so involved in the comics. He only has written Fury Road and Furiosa. And as you mentioned, is an actor. Or did you mention he's an actor? I don't know.

>> Rob: Yes, I did. Yeah.

>> Guido: Yeah. Okay. And, but here, Mark Sexton, who is a storyboard artist who worked with Miller, he is the one who wrote this comic, and he has a great intro, giving sort of the genesis of how Furiosa, being in development for 20 years, he worked on a lot of the storyboarding that was done early, early in its genesis way, pre production. He then worked on happy feet and did storyboards for that. He storyboards for Marvel. He did love and thunder, ant man and wasp, falcon and Winter Soldier. A lot of big stuff that mark Sexton's doing. But here he was able to take the development, the story, the Bible, from Miller and Lothoris and turn it into these four issues.

>> Rob: I just wanted to share one thing from his introduction, which he says. So I went into a magnificent old art deco theater and was directed up to the big room in the center of the building that George used as his office. And I just love that George Miller's office is in the middle of an Oharmteco movie theater, which all the stories.

>> Guido: Though, too, of, the storyboards. I mean, the storyboarding is what they did for probably, I want to say, a decade. And you should read it in that oral history, like in that office, they do just the walls. There's hundreds, if not thousands, of storyboards. Really cool way. And it speaks to why the movie is so visually striking and stunning and unique. And so he's also deep in the story, Mark Sexton. So it's very cool that he did this. Now, we won't really give too much of a summary. Essentially, these are almost origin comics, if you will. So you get Nux's origin really briefly at the start of that issue, you get Morton Joe's origin, which is a little more fleshed out of who he is.

>> Rob: He probably gets the biggest origin.

>> Guido: He gets the biggest origin story. Agreed. Furiosa's issue, you actually don't get her origin. We'll focus on that in a moment. It's about her meeting the wives or the breeders and then, making the decision to take them away, which, of course, then the movie, she's already taken them. You just don't realize it at first. And then Max, number one and two, is telling what Max's story is happening, parallel perhaps, to the other comics prior, obviously, to Fury road, because they haven't kidnapped him yet. So it's essentially a rescue story. He's fighting a little bit of a different. He's fighting those people that Furiosa makes the deal with on the hill who have all the spiky cars.

>> Rob: The buzzards. Yeah, with all the buzzards. Yeah.

>> Guido: And, and then. But he meets hope and glory, a mother and daughter, who he has to save the daughter, and it brings up his own past with his wife and child being killed. They end up, getting killed in the comic. And then that leads us to where Max is at the start of Fury Road. One interesting note before we dive into the Furiosa issue is that that is also the plot of the 2015 video game. So clearly, Miller at some point, shares this part of Max's story, this fact that he met these people and this arc. And again, that's what makes all of this canon and none of it an alternate universe, because it's all coming back to that singular series Bible.

>> Rob: Yeah. And in the video game, I believe it was going to be immortan Joe's, one of Immortan Joe's sons, who you don't really see in the movie.

>> Guido: Yeah. And that was. Yeah.

>> Rob: Okay.

>> Guido: Yeah. Scrotus or something. You know, some weird name. I think his name is Scrotus. I think it actually is Scrotus.

>> Rob: And I was gonna say, too, there's also, like, the classic portmanteau kind of framing device here, also of an, older man who's like a storyteller. You mentioned words burger at the beginning, history man. Yeah. Who's telling the story to a bunch of kids. It actually reminded me, Guido, of one of your all time, another movie in your all time top five, which is cloud atlas. Doesn't cloud atlas use a very similar structure there as well with one of.

>> Guido: The timelines in the future? He's recounting the stories of the past.

>> Rob: And a bunch, of tattoos. I want to say it's a very similar design. Maybe they shared. Shared minds there. And the Wickowski.

>> Guido: Well, I do.

>> Rob: I mean, the Wachowski is a similar. A similar mindset m of George Miller, where it's a deep dive into a universe.

>> Guido: And that's the why I love them. Right. They're all these multilayered stories that trust the audience, that are super ambitious, that have a lot of mythology to them. So, for sure there's connections there. And the history men are really interesting. And yeah, the word burger is what he calls, like, the narration, basically, he's like, okay, time for a word burger. And I just. It's so funny. It's one of those great alternate universe devices where it's like, okay, that is totally new and original to Miller and he invented it, or sexton in this case, but makes total sense, like, and gives me a sense of how language changed and developed.

>> Rob: It's like guzzleed too, which is what they call gasoline. And it's just like a couple letters difference, but you instantly takes you to a different place.

>> Guido: Well, and it gives you like, the idea of, like, guzzling as, you know, consuming. And we do see, like, the war boys, like, drink the gasoline and spit it out and so, like, it. Yeah. That one invention gives you so much depth to the world, and that's what's so cool. Anyway, I'll stop fanboying now that we're on the comic, because the comic is only okay, beautiful art, but the furio is beautiful art.

>> Rob: Great.

>> Guido: Is only okay because it's just like, it's like a drop in the bucket of the story we all want. So what did you think?

>> Rob: Yeah, it's an interesting, because, as we said, like, Morton Joe, you kind of get his whole. It's abbreviated still, but you kind of get his whole origin story of he's like a military person at before the fall and then how he takes over the Citadel. But yeah, Furiosa is actually just really feels like a couple of days before the events of Fury Road, and you kind of just see her kind of coming to terms with making the decision to save the wives.

>> Guido: It's more time than that because there's the one who's pregnant and loses the pregnancy and then the one who's pregnant in the movie is not yet pregnant when Furiosa gets assigned. So we know months have passed, but we don't see those months like because it's irrelevant. Because ultimately in the story, I guess we will summarize it briefly since it's so hard to find for people this story. What's happening in this story is the things we find out that are in addition to Fury Road are we find out that his, that Morton Joe's other sons all have some sort of mutation and he's trying to have a son that doesn't. And that's why he creates that environment that the. They're not wives, but that the, that the women live in is so that he can try to have a non mutated, healthy pregnancy. And ultimately they have their teacher, Miss Gitty, who you do meet in the movie. And it's fun to see more of her here when she gets assigned and stuff. And then, but they need someone to take care of the women and sort of keep them in check, but also keep the other men away from the women because Morton Joe doesn't want anyone touching them so that there's more of a chance they'll have a pregnancy with him. That's where the explanation for the chastity belts that we see in the movie comes in. So Furios is assigned to them and then slowly we see that they're making this connection over the possibility of escape and what it means to walk away and what it means to be treated as a thing. And there's little bits of that in there. So it's just giving us that little sense of her decision to take them. But yeah. Nothing else with her life, her backstory, nothing with the vulvalini, the green place, nothing.

>> Rob: But I think so much of that speaks to the fact that now that we're gonna have a movie that is a prequel of her.

>> Guido: Exactly.

>> Rob: And he didn't want to give that away in the comic. He was like, oh, that's gonna be a whole separate story. I'm just gonna tell a little bit of her. That's why I was saying before too, we actually see more of her character arc here in this comic than we do in the movie. Because here in the arc she kind of starts off saying like, well, you're all spoiled brats basically because you get all the water you want and you have clean air and everyone else out there, yet you're still complaining that like, you know, that you're. You're captive of this m m of this horrible man. And then she kind of comes to realize, oh, no. Like, they are just like me. Like, none of us are free. And that's when she makes the decision. So you see more of that character arc for her here than you actually do in the film itself.

>> Guido: Mm Yeah. Yeah, I agree. That's true. And I think you're right. It does definitely feel like. And we know Furiosa was in development, was greenlit when Fury Road was such a huge success. Furiosa and apparently a sequel named Wasteland were both greenlit. And then Wasteland got pushed aside for Furiosa. And then I'm assuming, COVID delayed things. So maybe we would have had a movie sooner than waiting nine years. But I think it is clear from this that he has the whole of Furiosa's backstory, and he did not want to reveal any of it here because even, like, she doesn't, someone asks her why she doesn't have an arm in the comic, and she does not say, she doesn't refer back to it. She doesn't give an origin of even why she starts working for Morton Jo. Like, that's not in here. None of it hurts her. Her. We know she gets taken, but we don't know, like, how she moves up in the ranks to become an imperator.

>> Rob: So, yeah, I think what I got a lot more out of, actually, the two max issues than I got out of the Furiosa and the nux in Morn and Joe are kind of fun, just kind of backstory. The true origin stories, the Max one actually answers a lot more questions from Fury Road than the Furioso one because the furious. Well, because they put two and two together. But yeah, Max also has.

>> Guido: This stuff takes you from the Thunderdome.

>> Guido: It also takes you from Thunderdome into this, like, it's supposed to kind of be a bridge, and it refers to him leaving Thunderdome. And there's that into another fighting arena.

>> Rob: Yeah. There's so many key elements in the. In Fury Road with those subliminal or M. fantasy shots of a little girl who's not his daughter, and you're watching the movie going, I have no idea who this is. And ultimately plays, like, an important plot point in saving his life. Even in Fury Road, you don't know who she is, really, until actually you read this comic. And so it's so interesting that they actually had this whole thing, which plays a pretty significant role in the film. And yet saved it for the comic. So, I mean, again, it doesn't, it just, it feels like these little tidbits, these little treasures that are in the movie that you're not supposed to even 100% understand. But what did you think about kind of getting some of that backstory, some of that motivation then from Max with the glory and her mom?

>> Guido: Yeah, I agree. I love it. And I think going back to your point about Furiosa, I think some of why that was like a two issue, more fleshed out series is because I would imagine he didn't really have an intent to make that movie. Like, why make a movie of Max that takes place between beyond Thunderdome and Fury Road? Like, that would not be a movie anyone needs to see. So I think he was, but he already had that arc. Now, whether that was like a movie that was earlier in development or he came up with that idea during the video game development process, over the 20 years he was developing games, who knows? But clearly he was like, oh, let me tell that story here. Whereas, yeah, the Furiosa, he's holding back the story, clearly.

>> Rob: Yeah. And I think it's important to see where we start with Max and Furio the film because he is really down on down and out and also really more of a loner than he even was before. Like he really wants to just be by himself and doesn't care.

>> Guido: And he's hallucinating a little. Know why he's having these flashbacks? Yeah. Ah.

>> Rob: And all that is actually brought up in the fact that despite the fact that he saved this little girl moments after he saved her and her mother, they're both killed and then he loses his car. And it really kind of puts him at the mindset and also kind of the physical restraints that he's in at the start of the movie. So very interesting that they saved that force of comic. I don't think I've ever seen that kind of storytelling before in movie to comics, Dom.

>> Guido: No. And some of the synergy, I wonder if it came out of Warner Brothers owning, obviously, DC. That's why it's interesting that there's a license at ah, play here that has this collection out of print because Warner must not outright own these characters in these stories, otherwise there'd be a lot more synergy, I think, of those stories. But I think when you look at the video game, comics and movie together, all three are Warner and all three are Miller. And the synthesis and the synergy is so fascinating and so unique.

>> Rob: Well, it might be similar to, even to James Bond. Which eon Productions owns, but MGM has the deal to release them. So they must have just that kind of thing where they don't actually own the property, like Star wars and Disney. But we'll see.

>> Guido: So before we move on to talk more about Furiosa, one thing to mention is the war rig backup is great also. It's so fun. Again, I hate cars. Somehow I love this world, and I hate cars, and I love this comic. But each chapter, each page, I should say, of this brief comic is a different part of the war rig and how it got put on there. So you get, like, the one pager of the Volkswagen bug that's, like, on top of it and the story of that part. So it's just such a cool concept. I loved that. I was shocked how much I loved that story. So let's talk more furious, though.

>> Rob: Yes. So we're coming to the end of the road, but before we do, let's, ponder some possibilities. Will the future you describe be averted, diverted, diverted to Gido? What are we talking about for our pondering possibilities?

>> Guido: Well, Furios is coming out this week, but we're not gonna just predict that movie because our predictions will be, null and void in four days. So there's a lot, though, to start here. I do want to talk a little bit about what we want to see in Furiosa and beyond, but I also want to return to this question of why isn't there more tie in stuff? Well, we can't answer it, and we've speculated on the business stuff, but, like, what would be your ideal tie ins? And, ah, then especially looking at comics, like, what comic series from this world would you want to see? Or do you think could support even an ongoing or a mini series or something like that? So do you want to start?

>> Rob: Yeah, I think in terms of which one? Well, I'll start with tie ins. And in terms of, like, the tie ins, I think. I think what the movie, even recasting Mel Gibson for Fury Road showed that it doesn't need Max as a character. And I'm sure we'll see that in Furiosa to kind of, take us through this world. And as you said, furiosa is really the star of the movie. So I think in terms of tie ins, I'd love to see other worlds that Max isn't a part of, I think.

>> Guido: But with people we've met or you're just saying you want other things, like, I think both.

>> Rob: I mean, I think the number chief, one of the people who we've met. I would love to find a cover. Is the female warriors that we meet the Volvolini? The Volvolini? Yeah.

>> Guido: Oh, yeah, yeah. No, they're my answer. I want a comic series of the Vulvalini. I want a tv series of the Vulvalini.

>> Rob: I want, and not just, I think I'm sure we'll see them in Fury and Furiosa. but not just probably even what's dealt with there, but I mean, like, again, like, there's probably, there's 20 years of other storylines in between. So it feels like the kind of thing that we could totally just see what they're, what they've been doing. And it was probably a much bigger group than we see in Fury Road as well, so we could have even more characters to play with.

>> Guido: Well, and even who each of them are. And, you know, in Fury Road, like, Max recognizes its bait when they trap someone. What are they doing? Are they killing people? Are they, like, they're obviously traveling around. The woman has the seeds. I also can't help. You're not going to know this reference, but our listeners, some of our listeners will. They are. Exactly. There's no way Jonathan Hickman wasn't inspired by them for horticulture. So I think I probably told you about them, but you weren't reading X Men. Right after Power's house, when Hickman's writing X Men, he introduces horticulture, which is a group of evil old women that are, like, meant to be like the golden girls, kind of, that are really sassy and sarcastic and, like, have, like, big guns and are, like, eco warriors. So they are the Vulvalini, without a doubt. And that makes me want a whole Vulvalini comic book series too.

>> Rob: You know, one thing I'm thinking, too is there's this, that great moment in Fury Road with, I think actually it's with the Vulvalini where they're seeing like, a satellite fall and they're saying, well, that's what they used to show, like, tv shows on.

>> Guido: That's what shows used to come through on. Yeah.

>> Rob: So, it's almost making me wonder because I think all of Mad Max world kind of exists within Australia. Is, are there other parts of the world that haven't been touched by the fall or in the same way? So I'd wonder if there's an interesting story to show where civilization is actually a bit more stable in that way. What do you think about something like that?

>> Guido: I imagine it's not the case because if the world ran out of oil, I think every civilization would collapse.

>> Rob: well, unless some rich place like that had oil like that, that was stockpiling it. I mean, they're still able to get oil out of the ground because they create gasoline in Fury Road. So there's still some way to make it.

>> Guido: Yes, but very limited. So, no, I think all of civilization fell. But sure, we can definitely explore the globe. You're right, we haven't yet. And I don't know why Miller's made that decision to not. I guess he sticks with what he knows. Keeping it local. Keeping it local also just helps you sort of connect pieces. So I'm not sure why that is.

>> Rob: I think regardless of what other stories there is, I think the toad is so key to me, and I'm making me think, like, there are similarities between this and other post apocalyptic stories. Like, I'm thinking especially the last of us. And I loved, like, the last of us was great television. I'm not really looking forward to it coming back on tv because it's not a pleasant watch.

>> Guido: Right.

>> Rob: It's not fun. Yeah, I did not look forward to, like, watching it every week when it's like, oh, now, people we love that get killed. And, like, it's an hour long meditation on, like, love and grief. It's like, oh, not, yeah, but this is just fun. So it's a. I, think, like, that is so key to the tone that he's able to strike. It's like we're able to, even in the comic and in the movies, like, little children get killed. And it is like characters that we have grown to, like are killed, including in Fury Road. And yet somehow it doesn't feel dark and heavy like a last of us feels. And I think that is, that's one of the reasons why I enjoy it so much.

>> Guido: Yeah, I agree with that. And I think that translates well into comics and could translate into any other tie ins.

>> Rob: And would you, as a comic fan especially, would you want to see more comics? Maybe not a movie spin offs, but comic spinoffs and all that kind of thing?

>> Guido: Yes. As, I just said, vulvalini is what I'd like to see. But I think any of these characters can work in comics. I think even Max could work. I think because we only have a prime canon in this universe, you probably wouldn't be able to do a max story unless it tells little stories that occurred in between the movies we've already seen, such as the two issues that we read did. But otherwise, any of these other characters you could easily see in a comic series. You could even have a comic series that's like the origin of the Citadel. We still don't know. And perhaps in the Furiosa movie, we will see how the Citadel comes to be. But also in Fury Road right there, we've blown open the mythology because someone could give us the bullet farmers in a one shot or four issue mini series. Like, tell us how the bullet farm started. We can assume someone just hoarded all the bullets, but tell us more. That guy is crazy, and it's so interesting, and I love it. and then certainly when you go into Gastown and the gas that guy with the metal nose, you just get so many interesting characters out of each of these segments that I think any of them could be in a comic. And I like that they protect the prime canon, so I would expect any tie ins or spin offs or offshoots to continue to do the same. Interestingly, there's been no announcement of a comic to tie in with the Furiosa movie. not even a one shot. Nothing. no special. I don't know if the movie does really well if we'll quickly get an announcement for something, like later this fall. Obviously in 2015, they were releasing them parallel, so they weren't waiting for the hype, they were ready for it. So we'll see. I'll be curious if we get more. I'm so excited to see Furiosa in the next few days. And that's it.

>> Rob: Yeah, and let us know after you see it what your thoughts are. Or maybe you've located this hard to find comic and let us know your thoughts. But until then, that's a wrap. Dear Watchers, thank you so much for listening.

>> Guido: I have been Imperator Guidio, and I.

>> Rob: Have been the Rob warrior.

>> Guido: The reading list is in the show notes. You can follow us online, especially on.

>> Rob: Threadsearwatchers, and leave us a five star review wherever you listen. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.

>> Guido: In the meantime, keep pondering the possibilities.