Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

Rob: We're out of gravy. That's what I call a real crisis. And while we run to the store to fix that, welcome to Dear Watchers, an omniversal comic book podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.
Guido: We're traveling with you through the stories, the worlds, and the holidays that make up an omniverse of, uh, fictional realities we all love. And your watchers on this journey are me, Guido Clutterbuck. That name will only make sense to people who've read what we've read or later in the episode.
Rob: And if you can have a Batman, can't you have a turkey? Man, that could be, uh.
Guido: What is the, uh. I don't know, you need some catch line. That's not gobble, gobble. That's too obvious.
Rob: Yeah, I'm going to knock the stuffing out of you.
Guido: There it is. All right.
Rob: Right off the top of my head, look at, you know, a turkey is just as intimidating, or more intimidating than a Robin, probably, right. So why can't you have a turkey more, for sure. Yeah, exactly. Well, before we begin our trip through the holidays and Gotham City Gita, what's new in our section of the Multiverse?
Guido: Last week was a really fun episode 120 about the MCU. And it's just fun because we talked a lot about the multiverse saga, the Marvels and Loki, and how they alter the multiverse in the MCU, which is a big thing. And more stories keep coming out every day, it seems now that are giving us some clues about the direction or the redirecting that's happening. So go listen and tell us what you think. We want to know what you think.
Rob: And what if was announced or the new trailer for what if, which will probably maybe tie into that as well.
Guido: Maybe. We'll see. Yeah, I'll be curious about that in December. And I'm sure we will watch it, though. It's not something either of us are too excited about. But the release calendar is cool. The fact that they're doing like a week stretch of just a new episode.
Rob: A day, it's like an advent calendar of episodes.
Guido: I'm sure that's their point. People are home for holiday breaks and stuff, so. Yeah. And on the subject of breaks, we are stepping away from Twitter. So find us elsewhere. We love talking. We want to hear your MCU ideas. We want to hear your Thanksgiving stories, but you'll have to find us other than on Twitter. So at dear Watchers on all social media, we're trying to get more active on threads, but we're on Blue Sky, Instagram, Facebook. So find us. We love hearing from you. And on that. Happy Thanksgiving. This is Thanksgiving week. We are thankful for all of you who are listening, and we are especially thankful to our patrons who support us over on our coffee and have been trying to just express their gratitude with a little bit of monthly support. So thank you, patrons. Thank you, listeners. Thank you, everyone.
Rob: Sound like Tiny Tim over there.
Guido: I know. That's what I was going for. That was on purpose.
Rob: And if you're joining us for the first time. Uh, no, I don't know where that.
Guido: Voice, if you cockney accent, it didn't work.
Rob: That's true. And it's Christmas too, right? Uh, if you're joining us for the first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse today. Origins of the story, exploring multiversity and pondering possibilities. Thank you for joining us on today's journey.
Guido: And remember to leave us a five star review wherever you're listening or on other platforms, too.
Rob: And with that, dear Watchers, welcome to Episode 121. And let's check out what's happening in the Omniverse with our travels to today's alternate universe. Today we gobble, gobble up some DC Comics and ask the question, what if Harley Quinn tried to destroy all DC comic book events while saving her family Thanksgiving?
Guido: Yes, this is a weird Earth. Uh, it takes place a little bit in what was Earth prime at the time for DC. But of course there's a lot of meta stuff going on that takes place in the pages of a comic book within that world. So this Earth doesn't really have a designation. We'll call it Earth Turkey. Uh, Harley. I don't know. Turkey Quinn. Earth Turkey Quinn. So on Harley, we actually have not dug too deep into her, though she is rather multiversal, spanning these days in her title. We discussed her first in episode 103 when we talked Ivy and Harley for Pride Month and their amazing relationship and their origin in the animated Series. Then shortly after, in 106, we had special guest friend of the show, author Tim Hanley, on to look at their crossover with Betty and Veronica. But we have never focused in on the. I don't know, is she the Queen Prince of Crime? I have no one. I'm sure someone has called her that, but luckily it didn't stick. We've never focused in on Harley Quinn won Harleen Francis Quinzell alone. So let's give a little bit more background on Harley.
Rob: Yeah. So Harley Quinn was created by Paul Denny and Bruce Tim for Batman the animated Series, first appearing in the episode Joker's Favor from September 1992. It's kind of a, uh, bottle episode where Batman only has a small role. Harley's origin really isn't revealed.
Guido: What does that mean?
Rob: Well, it's standalone episode rather than being part of the bigger story. Uh, so it mostly focuses on Joker. Batman doesn't really play a big part in it. And yeah, she was inspired by the female malls from Batman 66 because all those villains like Egghead had his egg themed henchmen. All the henchmen always had the female mall that was with them. So Paul Deeney thought, oh, that would be great for the Joker to really play off of, have his personality come out of that. And he actually saw his college friend, the late Arlene Sorkin, play a jester on a dream sequence of a show that Guido, I know is near and dear to your heart. I would love one day of our lives.
Guido: We need to find a way. There's never been a comic book adaptation, but we need to cover it and we can get Frank Piterisi on. But yes, she played one, Calliope Jones, I think was her surname, but that was the name I remember well, she was a great character and real hoot and, um, so I totally can see the inspiration.
Rob: Yeah, he saw her on that and was like, oh, she would be great to cast in this part. And Sorkin based the role on Miss Adelaide from GuYs and Dolls or Judy Holiday, that kind of, again, old timey gangster mall kind of type character, which I love. And Harley was a huge hit, although this is crazy. She was only in nine episodes of Batman, the animated Series. It's the same thing with Batman 66. You go, oh, that character must have been in so many. And they're in like two, but she.
Guido: Was only in that one, even more so. But nine is probably, she's probably only behind the core cast. So if you remove Commissioner Gordon and, uh, whatever, Bullock and Alfred and all of them, she's probably not far behind the core cast since it was so episodic. I think probably even the people that are so iconic to us on that show, like Mr. Freeze, I bet, was only, oh, I'm sure that number of episodes.
Rob: Yeah. And she did reoccur on a lot of other series because she was such a successful character right off the Bat.
Guido: In the same universe, of course.
Rob: Yeah, she was on Superman, the animated Series, Static Shock. She was on Batman Beyond.
Guido: So a lot of Batman, the animated series, new Adventures of MHM, then they.
Rob: In other media, she was actually going to be the villain as Joker's daughter. Not his love interest, his daughter in the fifth film in the Burden Schumacher world. But of course, that series did not continue after Batman and Robin. Then outside of animation, Mia Sarah portrayed her in the ill fated TV show Birds of.
Guido: That's rude. I love that show.
Rob: But let's call it brief. Exactly. Uh, the character had a cameo appearance on Arrow, was set for a bigger role, but Suicide Squad was happening, so they didn't want to step on that. So that character was axed there. She also, a character based on Harley appears in Gotham. I didn't know this. In podcast, she was voiced by Jillian Jacobs and Christina Ricci, two excellent actors who I can totally see being Harley. And then, of course, Margot Robbie has been her in, uh, Suicide Squad one, two and Birds of Prey. Kelly Cuoco has voiced her on the hilarious self titled HBO Max series, which was just renewed for a fifth season.
Guido: And finally, good news.
Rob: Yes. Love that. And finally, M Ms. Lady Gaga will be playing her in the Joker sequel coming up this year. Next year. Yeah, I don't know.
Guido: Maybe HBO, maybe Warner Brothers can can that one like they do all the good projects like Coyote.
Rob: Yeah, you're not really hiding your poker face here, Guido.
Guido: Great cover. So a bit on Harley and comic books, though, because as we, ah, did mention briefly in our Harley and Ivy episode, of course, so unusual, not unheard of. X 23, also known as Wolverine, was a similar character who debuted on a cartoon and then made her way into comics. So not unheard of, but it is unusual. And so in comics, she shows up in September 1993, a year later in Batman Adventures. So it's not prime Earth canon, it's not comic book continuity. It's the books that are not adaptations of the TV show, but are set in the TV show universe. Similarly, she's in the, uh, much more famous Mad Love special, also set in the Batman Adventures universe. And that tells her origin in February 1994. It is very similar to the origin that ends up in comic book continuity. We'll talk about today. Then in 97, an Elseworlds we haven't yet covered, thrill Killer, has a version of her show up again. So it's not actually until 1999 that she's placed in what is the DC Prime Earth at the time in Batman Harley Quinn one shot oversized special, which we'll talk about today. She then gets a solo title in 2000, which only runs 38 issues before, shockingly, it's canceled for low sales.
Rob: Huh.
Guido: Which seems like unheard of.
Rob: Yeah, today, that seems shocking. Yeah.
Guido: So it's then years that's 2000. It runs till about 2004. She shows up five years later in Gotham City. Sirens teaming up with Catwoman and Ivy. They live together. They become a team together. It's a great, great title. That was sadly ended by the New 52 reboot. In that reboot, she shows up in the Suicide Squad as a member of the Suicide Squad, gets her own solo title in the New 52 universe starting in 2014. That runs 30 issues. It's rebooted in DC Rebirth for a 75 issue run. That is what we get into today. And then the current run that she's on from 2021 to present. So she has now, the last ten years, a lengthy history in comics. But really, even pre new 52, she does not have, um, a ton of stuff for a character who is now, I don't even know, she's so similar to Deadpool. But is she possibly almost as popular as Deadpool? I think she's probably close, which is just wild.
Rob: Well, it's funny, if you go to New York Comic Con, those two characters are in the probably top five comic characters. You see people cosplay. As for Deadpool, there's so many versions.
Guido: And there's so much about her that just proliferates in culture. And so, uh, I think she is probably up there. If you remove the Batman Spider Man, Wonder Woman icons, her and Deadpool are probably like the two most famous sort of B list. Uh, not B list, but B list in those mainstream Zeitgeist characters.
Rob: Yeah. And I'd say another rarity for her is that she's got these two distinct looks, and they're both famous because you have a character like Batman who always or Superman always kind of look the same. You have some characters, they're revamped, and no one likes the new revamped. They only like the old one. But her, she's a character that, you know, the animated series look, or, you know, like the Kaylee Cuoco, Margot Robbie, like the new look.
Guido: And they're both equally iconic and they're both in comics.
Rob: Mhm.
Guido: And in core continuity. So what was your background with Harley Quinn?
Rob: Well, my biggest background was, of course, as we've discussed on the show before, Batman, the animated Series. Knowing her on there and Joker was never my favorite character episode. I love Mark Hamill's portrayal, and I love, um, Eileen Sorkin's portrayal, but just, they were never my favorite episodes, but I always knew her from that. And then I never read her in comics at all, really, until her more modern resurgence with Margot Robbie and the Kelly Cuoco TV show. How about you?
Guido: Well, then you haven't even read her.
Rob: No, I haven't, really. I think today and on this show have been the most I've ever read her in.
Guido: Yeah. Yeah. For me, I mean, same thing. And everyone of an age, uh, was introduced to her through the animated Series Harley and Ivy. The episode is probably my favorite episode of that entire series. I used to always wait for that one to come back in the syndication rotation. And I'm sure I eventually taped it and just watched it endlessly. So I was always a big fan of her on that, but, and I had mad love, even though I wasn't collecting the Batman Adventures comics because I just really liked her a lot. Once she entered mainstream comics, I wasn't reading Batman. So I never read her solo titles early. I never read her introduction to the DC Universe. I did read Gotham City Sirens, and I never read her solo titles until the last few years when I've picked a few up because, ah, I've just been interested in the Harley Ivey relationship, which I have read more of. And I've been interested in the multiversal stuff that she gets into, which is very Deadpool, very meta, very humorous, which you'll see in today's issue. So I love Harley. I appreciate Harley. I'm not the number one Harley fan, but I, uh, could see myself becoming one one day.
Rob: Okay, Mr. M G. Let's go to Origins, uh, of the story.
Guido: Oh, gosh. Right now, on this very show, you're.
Rob: Going to get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago. And first up today is Batman, Harley Quinn, number one from DC Comics. This is from October 1999.
Guido: So this is written by Paul Denny, co creator of the character with Bruce Tim. Though Arlene Sorkin should also really be credited as the third co creator of this character. Penciled by Yvel Guiche, inked by Aaron sod, colored and separated by Richard Hori and Tanya Hori. Lettered by Willie Schubert, edited by Darren Vincenzo. Quick summary, if you haven't seen this again, this is her first appearance in the DC Universe. So Ivy meets Harley, who at this point is under a pile of rubble, had fallen victim to Joker trying to rocket her into outer space. And she flashes back to tell Ivy who she is, her time as his therapist, helping him escape Arkham, um, her own incarceration and escape their few days spent together and in love, after which he tries to get rid of her in this rocket because he has feelings and he's worried that's going to compromise his mission. So Harley leads Batman to Joker only to, of course, betray Batman and end up with Joker again. So that's a quick summary for an oversized, Long.
Rob: Yes. Yeah.
Guido: So what do you think of this introduction to Harley?
Rob: Well, first off, I've seen this cover by Alex Ross in every comic book store I've ever gone to or at Comic Con. Yeah.
Guido: I mean, such a great. Is always stunning. But this one, the Joker, is so dark and creepy. M Harley is so iconically Harley in it. It's just a great image.
Rob: So I was excited to finally read it because this is a cover that I've seen since middle school. And, yeah, I think I really liked it a lot. And I love that she is this unreliable narrator throughout the story because we're seeing her story and we're hearing her tell poison Ivy about it. But her narration often doesn't match up with what's actually happening because she'll say, oh, the Joker and I had a marvelous evening. And she's talking and the Joker's watching.
Guido: TV and he drugs her. Uh, and she wakes up.
Rob: Yeah. She was like, oh, we had a fabulous champagne toast. And it's, oh, no, she actually got drugged. So I love that they're playing with that, her delusion there over the character because you do go, oh, why is this character. Why is Harley in love with the Joker? And you do see that. Oh, no. This is her delusion in how it's playing out throughout the whole. And they keep in also, I think, the, uh, aspect of the anti hero as well, that she is helping Batman but she's also hindering him. She has her own motivations as well.
Guido: Yeah, I agree. I think what is striking to me is just how much of Harley who at this point has existed for seven years. And somehow, of course, in part because it's the person who had been writing her since the beginning. Paul Dinney was able to take everything we know about Harley and package it into this. Even though this is her first entry into the DC Universe. It just works. It has every dynamic. It has her resentment of Joker even though she has this attachment she can't separate from herself. But there are aspects of it that make it, uh, almost a little more adult, I think, because it's comics. And so I appreciate some of that. Not that I like tonally dark things, but I did have to laugh when Joker is, like, interviewing this guy about his own relationship stuff and then he just starts going into details about his relationship and he just shoots him in the funny.
Rob: Well, it brings up what Paul Dini said, which is you have this character of Harley to bring out something more out of the Joker. I saw that moment you're talking about. I see that so much on the animated series and, well, Batman, the animated Series, the Harley Quinn animated series where Joker also at times then because of Harley, tries to almost relate to the masses. Like there he's like having some bruskies with his bros and they're going to talk about girls. And it's when this other guy starts to share his feelings that Joker shoots him in the have. But you wouldn't get that without Harley being the impetus to actually create that moment for Joker too. Mhm.
Guido: Yeah. The other thing that's in here, that of course, Jimmy Palmiati and Manta Connor are the ones who really create and lean into, is her fourth wall breaking. It's not here, except I will say the narration, as you said, even though she's telling Ivy the story, it feels a little bit like she's engaging us and as an audience. And then the issue closes with a note she wrote to Batman. But again, it feels like she wrote the note to us, the audience. M so it was fun to see what maybe were shades of a, uh, fourth wall breaking character that then I think Amanda and Jimmy picked up on and really brought into who she is as a character.
Rob: And I was kind of surprised that it starts basically with her and Ivy and is very much the same kind of dynamic that they have on the Harley Quinn animated show where Harley is very composed for the most part and in control. Ivy is very much, no, no. And Harley is chaos. But I was like, oh, right away. Even though it's not romantic here, some of the way that they even talk to each other, especially some of the way Ivy talks to Harley, has some underpinnings of romance or just the fact and just them together on screen. I'm curious. Curious or on the page? I'm just curious. I guess they always just felt like, oh, these characters go so well.
Guido: We talked about in our pride episode that Paul Denny saw it there and wanted to go there. But of course, he was writing for a children's cartoon show in the 1990s, so he couldn't take it there. And I'm sure in 1999, DC Comics wouldn't have let him anyway. So I think that is the intent from the very beginning, is to have these characters have a burgeoning love and intimacy. But it is cool that it's there. And it's there because she debuts with Ivy in the TV show. Right. So they've always been linked in every medium that they've been in. And this, of course, being the comic book one. And it's fun that. I don't know if this is revisited again, since I'm not a Harvey expert, uh, if it's still a part of Harley's character, that Ivy gave her a bit of a power boost.
Rob: It was mentioned in one of the other comics that we, uh, covered, the one, I think it was for the, um, Archie Crossover, that she is, uh, given elevated agility because that shocked me, um, knowing her mostly from the animated series, the original Batman animated series, where she doesn't really seem to have any powers, that in a comic, they want.
Guido: Her to be an actual threat to Batman. So.
Rob: Mhm.
Guido: Yeah, Ivy gives her the boost, and I guess it's still a part of the character, so that was cool to see, too.
Rob: Well, on that note though, too, on the threat to Batman, I think we talked about this when we talked about her other appearance. I mean, the one thing I think, with this character or all the other female characters in the Batman world is that the female villains, I should say, is they're all portrayed as anti heroes. So Catwoman, Talia Al Ghul, and, and Harley, they all have that Omen of Batman trying to take them back from the darkness. So, I mean, I don't know, maybe they just. What's fun is I don't go all the way with a female character.
Guido: I'm not an Ivy expert, but I don't know if that was true with Ivy until the more modern, like, last ten years. And even on the most recent season of Harley, Ivy is running the League of Doom, and Harley is one of the Bat family. So you even get it there that Harley is the one with morals and Ivy is the one who's, like, really much more of a villain other than she loves Harley.
Rob: Yeah. And maybe our listeners can write to us on, uh, any social media that's not Twitter and let us know, is there a real evil, all out evil Batman female villain out there? I'd love to know who that is. And if they ever were like, okay, let's actually have a female villain who's truly evil and not, uh, a little bit on the edge.
Guido: Women are just morally superior, that's all.
Rob: Well, let us pull up to the dining room table, get all of our fixins in for exploring multiversity.
Guido: I am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question, what if?
Rob: And today we are asking the question, what if Harley Quinn tried to destroy all DC comic book events? While saving her family Thanksgiving. And this is Harley Quinn, issue number 67 from DC Comics from January 2020, and it's entitled Crisis Killer.
Guido: It is written by Sam Humphreys. The credited artists who did some combination of penciling and inking, most doing double duty are Sammy Basry, Dan Juergens, Norm Rappmund, Aaron LePresty, Matt Ryan, Tom Derrinick, and Trevor Scott. Colorist is hi fi design letter Dave Sharp, and the editor of this run is Alex Anton. This is late to mid of Sam Humphrey's run on Harley Quinn, so he takes over for this book somewhere in the 40s maybe, I think. And this is 67, and he continues until it wraps, I think. So a quick summary. If you're not familiar with the book, it is very meta. Of course it's Sam Humphreys. No big surprise there. This is his bread and butter is meta comedy. And so Harley is also part of a comic telling her adventures, all written by one Meredith Clutter book who's introduced earlier in Sam Humphreys Run. So we know that this meta universe exists where Harley's reading a comic that she's also in. So in Prime Earth, though, Harley's mom has died, and this is a year of the villain tie in in which Harley's mom has died, and that becomes really important. She wants her father and her brothers to have Thanksgiving dinner together. And in her comic book, meanwhile, she's with booster Gold trying to stop crisis events from happening. Because this is Year of the villain, she decides she hates crises. And this is where it's, like, hilarious because Year of the villain is also a very strange event. She decides she hates these events because this one caused her mother to die. And so we flash back and forth between current prime Earth and in the comic book Earth, she's going from event to event with some really funny quips and, um, moments from final Crisis to infinite Crisis to crisis, not infinite Earths. And in current continuity, Harley's going from family member to family member trying to convince them to have Thanksgiving dinner with her. So she ultimately, in the end, realizes that comic book events are not too different from Thanksgiving dinner that she was trying to convince her family to have. They're a chance to overcome your internal struggles with people you love who help each other in dark times and realize they're better together than apart. This is the same for comic events as for Thanksgiving dinner. So she decides to help the first crisis to actually happen so that all events can happen. And of course, the final page of the first crisis is now her serving Thanksgiving dinner to the Justice League 1980s DCU Heroes of the Time, written and drawn by Meredith Clutterbuck. And back on Prime Earth, in our earth, she is waiting for her family, who never shows up to dinner. She decides to hold up a van in a pilgrim costume, of course, and go on her adventures to get herself to her Christmas celebration. Next. That is a quick summary of an issue I loved. What did you think?
Rob: Yeah, I thought it was a lot of fun. I think being someone who does not know all of these individual crises and events, some of it has less context on me there, but you get the concept without knowing. And I love the idea that all the other superheroes never really seem to care much that Harley is there. She'll say, oh, my God, Batman's, you're going to be killed. And Batman's like, what? I am?
Guido: Uh, well, because he does die in final crisis, of course.
Rob: So they react a little bit. They like, oh, my God, Darkseid's going to appear, or stuff like that. But none of them really feel. None of them ever go, who is this person who's here that I don't know, or Harley or, what are you doing here? They don't have that moment, which I like, that it's just like, okay, we're just going to accept that she's here and that they're just going to react as if this is every day.
Guido: Yeah, it's what's present in the Paul Denny 99 book. It's what's true of Deadpool. And I think the two have continued to influence each other, unquestionably is she's just an agent of chaos. And what a really good comedic writer gets is the fun you can have with her being an agent of chaos. So here it's Sam Humphreys realizing, okay, what if we take this chaotic element and shove her into all these things that we recognize from the past and see how other heroes respond to. Yeah, it's just hilarious. It's so fun. Even Infinite Crisis being as our listeners, regular listeners know, one of my favorite events, her interactions with the Earth Two, Superman and the Lex Luthor, are just so funny. And she's like, then commenting on the punching and the thumb sound effect. And so there's all these meta things that I just love.
Rob: Well, what's interesTing, though, is that you said that she's the agent of chaos, but in the real world, uh, she has to force to be the opposite. She's the one who's trying to be the stable force to get her dad out of his depression. Bring her three brothers together, and they're all saying the running joke throughout the whole comic is they're asking her, what's wrong? Why are you here? And she's like, because it's Thanksgiving. So it's interesting. Like, yeah, this character that is so chaotic and so anarchistic, uh, and is forced now to be the person who's trying to bring her family together. So that's an interesting juxtaposition.
Guido: It's why I think this issue works so well. And it's something I really like a lot about Sam Humphrey's work is that even when he's doing the meta comedic stuff, there's this way that he can make it something you can really relate to and have a good emotional charge or connection with. And I think that works so well here, even down to the fact that one of the scenes in the current earth that is the more sort of depressing or emo part of the story, she's going to the bathroom. You're listening to, hm, her dialogue with her father while she's sitting on the toilet. So the book does such a good job of taking all those aspects of her and juxtaposing them, as you said, in a way, though, that doesn't rob you of any emotional sentiment for it, I'd say.
Rob: Mhm. And her brothers are all trying to distract themselves from the death of their mother in different ways. One's a musician, one's building robots, one's breaking windows, so they're all distracting. And then you realize, oh, well, this is exactly the same thing that Harley's doing. She's trying to distract herself as well by under the guise of bringing her family together, but really as something to do, ah, in this moment. So I think that's something that is very relatable to anyone who's been through a loss or anything akin to this.
Guido: What else is cool with that then? Is in fact, even from what, uh, you just described in the interaction she has with other brothers and ultimately her failure in the end, she's able to be the positive force. She wants to be amongst the heroes, but not amongst the regular people, the normal people, her family. She's able to finally bring the Justice League together to get the events to be these moments of togetherness and have Thanksgiving dinner with them. But then in the real world, she fails. And I think another great story for any superhero story, that dichotomy of what I can't do as a normal person, I can do as a hero.
Rob: True. It's there in Batman so much, right? He can't function as a human being, but he can be this great care.
Guido: For anyone as Bruce Wayne, but, uh, as like, he can take care of so many. Yeah.
Rob: And so much of us, I think, have dealt with this in our own lives in obviously less exaggerated ways. But so many of us can be going through this hard time, go to work and solve these great problems. Right. But then we come home and we go like, oh, I can't deal with anything. But when you're at work or you're out with friends, suddenly it's a totally different scenario as when you're with sometimes, like, your loved ones. So I think that really resonates here. I mean, little moments like where the father is just like, staring at the save screen on his phone and it's his deceased wife, uh, Harley's mom, and it's like, oh, that actually really resonates. But the whole book isn't that. Because it is broken up by these very funny sequences of her jumping throughout the multiverse and the events.
Guido: Yeah. And then the final sequence does the same thing of this back and forth because you have the really sad page with fantastic art in it with her at the diner, five panels, realizing no one's showing up. The rather, uh, meant to be, I think, ironic food, family and togetherness. Only in comics. Right. That she says at the end, which is ridiculous because of course it doesn't happen in comics very often. But then it goes to her dressed as a pilgrim, saying, freeze, pilgrim. When she holds up the bus, which is like Clint Eastwood or somethinG, I can sort of. My head, okay, John Wayne. So it takes you again, takes this dark moment she's having. She's crying at the diner, and then just turns it into back to the humor and the chaos and the fun with who she is as a. Mhm.
Rob: Is. I'm guessing that her and Deadpool have never actually been able to connect since they haven't done any crossovers, I guess since her, because I know he also tried to destroy the multiverse. Right. As you were saying, they're fourth wall breaking characters. Their color schemes are even the never. But do you think we'll ever see these characters actually meet one? Maybe if they only made a deal to have just two characters. We can only choose two characters to do a crossover with. These seem like prime people to do the.
Guido: They are exactly what we'd want from a modern crossover where you would need the self referential humor, you would need that tone. You would want some of the darkness that comes along with both of them being murderers and antiheroes. So yes, I think they're perfectly aligned to one another. In fact, now you're making me wonder, could Margot Robbie show up in Deadpool three next year? I'm not going to bet, uh, on it, but I will dream a little bit about that possibility because I think on screen they represent the same thing. Uh, because Ryan Reynolds and Margot Robbie, I think, both inhabit these characters perfectly. So I think that they would have so much fun together.
Rob: Yeah. And as we talked about on our last episode, there's going to be lots of multiverseness with Deadpool Three. So never say never.
Guido: DC Universe exists and Mario Robbie shows up.
Rob: The other thing I was thinking is, like, maybe Joker Two is actually going to be all narrated by Margot Robbie as Harley. And we're seeing the super dramatic, gritty, romanticized version of Harley Quinn's world where she's even played. I could even see her say, like, I love Lady Gaga. So I'm going to cast Lady Gaga as well.
Guido: Well, in fact, the subtitle is I don't speak French, but Folia, uh, do or whatever, which is actually a syndrome, a diagnosis that people get. It's a mental disorder where two people share the same delusional beliefs. Now, of course, that works for both Joker and Harley, but it could work for Margot Robbie and Lady Gaga or Deadpool and Harley. Maybe Ryan Reynolds shows up in Joker two. So would you read more, Harley, based on this title, would you read more, especially of Sam Humphrey's Run here, which does a lot of what you're seeing on the page here.
Rob: Yeah, I definitely think so. I don't know if I'd ever commit to reading the whole series, but I definitely would read more characters or interactions with, uh, read more issues where she interacts with characters that I think, like, ooh, I could see Harley really playing off that character really well.
Guido: Yeah.
Rob: Well, let's wrap up today before we move into, well, this is dessert, I guess. Our thundering possibilities will the future you describe be averted? Well, I know you're really stuffed from all that other conversation, Guido. But real quick, before we have a little bit of room left, what are we talking about for our pondering possibilities?
Guido: Well, we talked Harley, and we'll talk Harley again, and there's plenty of Harley in the future. So instead, let's talk about Thanksgiving, or let's just talk about in general holidays, but focus on Thanksgiving holidays in comics and with comic characters and how this works. So I'm not doing a full background, a research background, because we will, I'm sure, at some point cover a holiday special, but of course, both Marvel and DC for decades have gone through eras of having holiday specials. Marvel in the 90s most frequently had the holiday specials generally released in the winter, covering sometimes Thanksgiving. Mostly the winter holidays like Christmas, New Year's, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and then DC more recently I'd say, has been doing it. They'll have an Easter special or they'll have a holiday special. There was a great one about ten years ago that was a holiday special, but it had all the heroes as Thanksgiving balloons on the COVID so it had a Thanksgiving story. So there have been ways these have been covered. And then of course, ongoing titles have sometimes incorporated a Thanksgiving dinner or a Christmas celebration or a Hanukkah celebration in the titles, so we can just chat. Thanksgiving. In the comics, there's actually a JSA that has a Thanksgiving dinner. I don't even know if you knew that, but I found it in my research.
Rob: Yeah, well, Thanksgiving is a great holiday, I think, to represent in the comics since it is also a non denominational holiday. I know there's been certainly many Christmas holiday specials, as you just said, but Thanksgiving just allows it to be, oh, it's pretty much everybody.
Guido: It also brings people together. And if you want to do what Sam Humphreys does, which a lot of the holiday specials that I just mentioned don't do, because they're all meant to be a little frivolous or even silly, but you can get into some of the emotion of holidays, which of course, so many people in the world who celebrate holidays feel a lot of emotion at those times, sometimes conflicting, sometimes about loss or grief, sometimes these darker emotions, sometimes a lot of lightness and love and connection. So there's just so much emotion in it, which creates a lot of possibility for cool stories.
Rob: Mhm. Now, do you think a tricky thing with holidays is that holidays for us, people not in comics, usually kind of, uh, denote some kind of passage of time.
Guido: Is that a tricky, less and less, yeah, I think that's also why they tend to happen in specials now or the last, even 2030 years, because then you don't have to worry about the quote unquote sliding timescale. You don't have to worry about the fact that in some issue where, I don't know, an event begins, some event within a title begins, someone's at the beach in a bathing suit, they go out into outer space. This event happens that maybe is only supposed to be a few days, but of course takes six issues to tell, and then suddenly they're having Thanksgiving dinner like you don't have to deal with that kind of issue by putting it in a special. That's why I think most of them are relegated to specials. Harley? I think it works a little better, in part because of the meta nature of the storytelling. I'm sure there's also an editorial challenge. Sam Humphreys, the next issue, he does do a Christmas issue, but the whole issue had to come together on time and be out in stores on time for it to work to do these issues. So yes, I absolutely think it's a challenge because it's a real life event and signals the passage of time.
Rob: Mhm. I think as a writer, though, as we've talked, when we've interviewed some writers and talking about how restrictions sometimes help them in writing, I would imagine it's fun to write these because if you're writing a Thanksgiving story, you have to go like, well, dinner has to be involved, the turkey has to be involved. It's like if you're writing a sitcom as well that's focusing on one of.
Guido: These, there's certain things that you have to be there.
Rob: Mhm. And if it's a Christmas thing, gifts right away, is it about one character getting a gift for another character? Like, I'm thinking the X Men animated series Christmas episode. Right. Uh, you have that there, and then.
Guido: It'S like warlock, little Christmas.
Rob: Exactly. And it's great. I would imagine a writer might like that because then it's like, okay, I know I have these tropes that I can play with and how am I going to adapt my characters to that situation that we're all familiar with?
Guido: Yeah, well, and the other challenge, though, is not retreading. But I think that's.
Rob: Mhm.
Guido: Generally not an issue because we haven't seen too many superheroes at holidays. Stories being told out there, though.
Rob: I think retreading is complicated in general. Right. Because there's only so many tropes to go around without feeling. Oh, I've seen this on Peanuts or whatever.
Guido: Well, one place to look for original content is something you and I have been watching recently with the timing, which is old Thanksgiving Day parades.
Rob: Mhm.
Guido: And, uh, the presence of comics has been pretty minimal over the years. But there are some gems out there, like the Marvel Float in the. I think it was the 88 parade.
Rob: I think so.
Guido: And oh my gosh, we were watching it and it's, for some inexplicable reason, a Harlem children's choir is on the float with the Marvel characters. And you have like Emma Frost reacting to the music and then there are these giant covers of comics that she then pushes out of the way to reveal the heroes. It's really wacky. And someone, uh, should turn that into a comic book story because I think.
Rob: You'Ve got strange, you've got Spider Man, Captain America, Iron man, the Hulk, Wolverine. And then the two really weird ones are Silver Surfer and Emma Frost, who it's like, well, these characters are really random.
Guido: Emma Frost is a strange one there.
Rob: I guess she looks fairly wintry in her.
Guido: Oh, maybe that was the motivation because. Yeah, I, uh, don't know. But I'm glad it happened, and I'm glad it was captured on television broadcast for all time because it is just great.
Rob: And I don't know if there's still a Superman balloon, but I remember growing up all the time. I think Superman was in almost all of the parades as a balloon. Spiderman and Spiderman too. Yeah, the two of them. Yeah.
Guido: I never really remember the only two characters who've had balloons. Of course there are like comic strip characters who've had balloons, but I don't think there's ever been a superhero balloon. That's not the two of them. But I could be.
Rob: Well, and I know on one of our favorite other podcasts, the Purple Stuff podcast, I know they talked about where they probably around 89, where they did a Batman float, and it's the Joker on the float with the balloons. And of course that's what he does in the movie to try to kill everybody. So it's a very OD choice that they made.
Guido: But yeah, there are some real highlights back there in those Thanksgiving Day parades for comics. And it was fun to see Thanksgiving show up in a comic today.
Rob: Mhm. Well, that is a wrap for us because we have to start the turkey, start basting.
Guido: So dear Watchers, thank you. This Thanksgiving, we're thankful for you listening. I have been Guido clutter Buck and.
Rob: I have been Rob.
Guido: Rob. Wait, you were the. Rob the Turkey Man?
Rob: Rob the Turkey Man.
Guido: Yes. So the reading list is in the show notes. Follow us everywhere except Twitter at Deer.
Rob: Watchers and leave a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.
Guido: In the meantime, in the words of UAtu, keep pondering the possibilities.