Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

>> Rob: I have the podcast. Welcome to Dear Watchers, an omniversal comic book podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

>> Guido: We are traveling with you through the stories and the worlds that make up an omniverse of fictional realities we all love. And your authors on this journey are me, the most powerful man in the universe, Guito.

>> Rob: And me, Skelerob. I gotta be the villain. Right. And before we begin our trip through some films and comics today, Guido, what's new in our little section of the Multiverse?

>> Guido: Well, this was inspired by the fact that we've been organizing a lot of film screenings in real life, in person.

>> Rob: Yeah. If anyone is in upstate New York, then they can come see some of the wonderful movies we've done. And we've done actually a lot of comic book adjacent or just comic book movies as a whole. Yeah, Batmane and a couple Batmans. Yeah.

>> Guido: And we put together great pre shows and we have a lot of fun. Sometimes there's even vendors and a marketplace set up. And it's been a great time. And this was our most recent one recording movie that inspired this episode.

>> Rob: And if you are joining us for our first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse today. Origins of the story, exploring multiversity, and pondering possib. So thanks for coming along and remember.

>> Guido: Leave us the five star view wherever you're listening and find us on social media. Dear watchers.

>> Rob: And with that, welcome to episode 158 and let's check out what's happening in the Omniverse with our travels to today's alternate universe.

>> Guido: You're gonna have to start talking. It's a long clip and we'll see if anyone is able to identify it.

>> Rob: Well, if they're an 80s or early 90s kid like we are, then hopefully they do recognize that. Although I was just saying to a friend of mine, oh, we were showing Master the universe with Dolph Lundgren and he was like, what? They made a master the universe with Dolph Lundgren and he's my age, so it's like, how did this escape him? I do not know.

>> Guido: Yeah, but people live in their own world.

>> Rob: Climbing skate Snake Mountain and asking the eternal, or should I say Eternia question, what if he man fought to become master of the Multiverse? And what if it spawned a loose sequel to the 1987 film in the process?

>> Guido: Yes, and we have started our exploration of he man's worlds way back in episode 67 when he and Superman fought. And then we Covered his crossover with the Thundercats in episode 93. We interviewed He man television show and comic book writer Tim Sheridan on episode 127, and only recently covered DA in episode 1 55. So we've had a few forays in Tahemman that you can go check out.

>> Rob: Before you said Tim Sheridan, I thought you were just gonna say, and we interviewed he man. And I was like, wait. We interview the fictional character, but no person who put words in his mouth.

>> Guido: And, this. The Earth that we're visiting today is many Earths, in fact. And the Prime Cannon in this one is not totally clear. So I guess it could be like Motton, which doesn't really work, but instead of Motu, it's Master of the Multiverse. M O T M course. So modem, Modem, Modem. It'll be Modem Earth modem. There we go.

>> Rob: Go, Motherard. Well, Guido, if people could see your room right now where you're podcasting from in front of you. There are many, many he man action figures all over the place, right?

>> Guido: Yeah. Including some that appeared in today's comics.

>> Rob: Yeah. So you much more than me. Well, although myself as well. You are a real He Man Motu AF officicionado. So what is your background with he man in all of his many iterations? Because there have been many.

>> Guido: There have been. And we've talked about he man and my love of he man and Sheir Ra over the years of this show. But thinking about all the different iterations, there are a lot, and I'm not gonna index them now. We're actually gonna dive in when we get to our multiverse a little bit more. But I obviously, I think the toys and the filmation come first for me. The original filmation series, I did not watch the New Adventures of He man, the Space series. I did watch the 2002 series. I did watch the movie, which we're gonna talk a whole lot about in just a moment. And I have not watched. I've not even tried the CG Netflix series from the last few years. But we did watch the revival series, and I've read all the comics, and then there are a whole bunch of other iterations that we'll get to today. Like there are German audio plays that create canon that shows up here. I, not speaking German, am not too familiar with those, but I love reading about them. So there's so many different versions, and I love that there's so many different versions, even though not all of them are for me. so even though I have a Lifelong love of what most people would consider the original he Man. I'm happy to see how many different shapes it takes. And I think that informs today's story a lot. So that's why this is a fun episode for me. What about you and all the iterations? What was your entry point, I think was different than mine?

>> Rob: That's a good question. I wish I knew exactly what it was, but I have to say it was probably the 1987 film, which we're going to talk about in much more detail in a second. But seeing that on WPIX channel 11 here in the New York area, taping it, recording it, and then watching it over and over again, that was probably my entry point. My other entry point and really the only thing from the Filmation series that I really watched was the he man and Sheira Christmas special. I had that on a commercial VHS which I would watch every Christmas. So for me, that was my animated one there. And then I did watch the new Adventures of He man when he is in outer space. And I had a lot of those toys. Those were my main he man toys because I was a bit too young for the original MOT to line, but I had lots from the New Adventures line. So I think it would be kind of those three really the toys more than the New Adventures Animated show the movie and then the animated.

>> Guido: And then it sort of ends. Because like you ve. You didn't read any comics.

>> Rob: No.

>> Guido: And I don't even know that you knew the 2002 series exact did.

>> Rob: I don't think so. And then it kind of more revisiting it in recent years. Loving the Kevin Smith produced TV shows that ran over a couple of seasons and kind of getting into some more of the lore, reading more comics for this podcast. But yeah, I still have big masters gaps in my knowledge.

>> Guido: Well, we have a year to fill them before the movie comes out. The new movie.

>> Rob: True. Well, let's power up the old cosmic key and head back to origins of the story. Right now on this very show, you're gonna get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago and first up to today is Masters of the Universe. This is the 1987 Canon Films motion picture.

>> Guido: Yes. It's directed by Gary Goddard, written by David Odell, starring Dolph Lundgren Frank, Angela Courteneney Cox and Meg Foster. And we watched ituse. It's kind of our prime earth for this episode and what we're going to be talking about. We'll talk a bit about its History now and how it was created and who worked on it. And then we'll get into what we think of it, and then it's gonna be an important part of our multiverse. So the director, Gary Goddard, had helped create theme park attractions like the Jurassic park ride and King Kong at Universal Studios and the 90s animated TV show Skeleton Warriors. But this is his only film. he was accused of sexual assault. Ah. At some point. And he's still alive, right?

>> Rob: He's still alive.

>> Guido: I don't think anyone hears from him or anything that's going on. The screenwriter was Emmy nominated as a writer on the Muppet show and wrote for the Dark Crystal and Supergirl, two other properties from this era that I love. So I think also doing David Odell, I didn't even realize how much I love David o'ell.

>> Rob: I know. We're going to be doing a screening of, Supergirl sometime in the near future. And you are a Dark Crystal super fan. So this is three David o'ell property that you have a deep affinity for.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, I think I'm in love with him. The film was produced by Canon, who are known for their low budget, ridiculous, campy 80s films. Breakin and Bloodsport are two of them. And Edward R. Pressman was another producer who produced so many Hollywood things, from Wall street to the Crow, the other comic book property. So it turns out there was a little more history we dug out. Why don't you get into that?

>> Rob: Yeah. So the comic book writer, John Byrne, who we've talked about many times on the podcast, he really compared the film to Jack Kirby's comic book meta series, the Fourth World. And actually in comic book news, John Byrne said the best New Gods movie, in his opinion, is Masters of the Universe. I even corresponded with the director who told me that this was his intent and that he had tried to get Jack to do the production design, but the studio nixed it. And he actually said, frank Angella Skeletor is a dandy dark side, which I can totally see as well. And then actually Gary Godard, he compares.

>> Guido: The High Father to the Sorceress.

>> Rob: Oh, yes.

>> Guido: And Metron to, Gildor. So's interesting.

>> Rob: Yeah. And then Gary Goddard actually responded to John Byrne and he did confirm this. Gary Goddard said, I intended the film to be a motion picture comic book, though it was a tough proposition to sell to the studios at the time. Comic books are just for kids, they thought, of course, lots have changed in that time, I'll say. And then he went on to say that they would not allow me to hire Jack Kirby, who I desperately wanted to be the conceptual artist for the picture. You might be interested to know that I tried to dedicate Masters of the Universe to Jack Kirby in the closing credits. But the studio took the credit out.

>> Guido: They took it out and they put a stinger in that we've been left with for all these years.

>> Rob: Our Skeletor will return, though he never did. But yeah, it's interesting. Guido, do you see the k. you're more familiar with the Kirby Fourth World than I am, but do you see some of those influences in the movie?

>> Guido: A bit. I think, I think design wise I can see it. The flying on the gliders, even the design of Skeletor, certainly the design of his space base.

>> Rob: Skeletor at the end of the movie when he has the goal power, he gets what truly is a Kirby headdress of Y undying. Yesah.

>> Guido: It is a Kirby head piece. I'm sure there's Kirby crackle every now and again. I think what it doesn't have is it doesn't have the philosophizing that especially in the Fourth World New Gods thing you'd think there'd be more of. So whether that came out in a draft or was just never actually there and was aspirational, I'm not sure. But you definitely don't have that. I think so. Just to start us off with this movie, the same thing I say every single time we watch this movie, which has been a good number of times over the years, I'd say it's a good movie. I like the movie a lot. It's just not a he man movie. So again, not that I'm a he man purist, but there's very little recognizable other than the names of characters.

>> Guido: But outside of that, there's no concept that aligns to he Man. There's nothing going on that makes it he man. Other than then that's he Man. That's Skeletor. They're fighting for Eternia. Skeletor captured the Sorceress. That's man in Arms, That's Teila. And that's about the extent of it.

>> Rob: Yeah. Because for folks who haven't seen the movie, most of the movie, like the beginning and the end take place in Eternia. Although we never really get to see Etern.

>> Guido: No, it's a very different. It's like the Dark Crystal. Eternia. Actually. It looks like the Dark Crystal. Yeah.

>> Rob: And it'very sets base. It's not like Star wars, where we go out to the cantina and like, see all these different characters. And then the. Most of the movie, the bulk of the movie takes place in very 1987 Earth, kind of nowhere America, where there's a barbecue restaurant and a synthesizer store and all that kind of stuff. And that's where we meet Courtney Cox. So most of the movie is there. So there's lots of big things that we kind of all associate with he Man. Like I have the power. Like, he says that. His biggest catchphrase. He only says once in the whole movie. And there's no transformation from Prince Adam into the he man character?

>> Guido: No, no. And even the magic, you know, he man's supposed to be a little bit of like, u, swords and sorcery meets sci fi. Gun. Gun stuff. Technology. Magic and technology. But always leaning more toward magic. And this one definitely leans more toward technology.

>> Rob: Probably Star wars especially, I mean, there. Which actually it's funny because Star wars also combines magic and technology as well. But here they're the. The Minions of Skeletor are basically Stormtroopers, only instead of being dressed in all white, they're dressed in all black, but they look very similar. And even the Skeletor's minions are not like the most famous minions for the most part from the animated show or from the toy line. They're kind of like the third tier folks. Or even some of them right. Came from like mini comics or obscure other comics. Like, they're not the.

>> Guido: Yeah, even. I mean, even Gwildor had. Had been in something before. So they did mine the Masters of the Universe lore for character names and rough character designs. But again, then it stops. Beyond that, there's no other link to the he man mythology that we all know.

>> Rob: But what I think it does really well overall, and I think you agree with this, is that it has a really great pacing. I'm going to attribute this to David O'Dell, since, you know, we did work on some of these other movies as well, because it just feels like it moves at a good pace. And one thing I really like about it is that it actually jumps in during the action. So we don't really get any backstory. The Sorceressce has already been kidnapped. We don't have all this. This exposition that so many movies do have today. And I feel sometimes, as much as we love like an MCU movie, they can, I think, sometimes be bogged down by like, okay, we need to kind of explain all this. And there's, there's. They have like these two And a half hour runime, because there's a lot of that kind of filler here. This is like an hour and 40 minutes, and it goes like, right in and, like, doesn't really let up. And I think it has. It knows when to put some humor into the story. It knows when it wants to be a little bit more serious. And it balances all that out really well.

>> Guido: Yeah, I think that's the thing. And I'd be curious. I think we've probably certainly, off microphone. But I feel like on the show we've talked about that MCU tone and how much it popularized that humor, but it's not a humor that turns things to camp, etc. I'd be curious where it originates, but this feels like it could be one of the early versions of it because I think a lot of people would call this movie campy. It's not. This movie is not campy. This movie is not trying to be silly. It's having fun.

>> Rob: There's 80s that can be. That you can laugh at.

>> Guido: Yeah. Like, they drive a pink Cadillac and Grildor cross dresses at one point. Right. Like, there's little jokes, but they're jokes. Like, those are supposed to be campy. Yeah.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: So I think that that's part of what helps with the pacing is it is just having a lot of fun. Like, it's enjoying itself for the most part. Honestly, Dolph Lundgren is probably having the least fun of anyone, but that might be sort of the role as it's written for him in that, like, he's just supposed to be this oiled up, like, ridiculous hulking man and everyone else around him is supposed to joke. You know, Courtney Cox gets to joke and certainly Teila and Man at Arms gets some jokes. And FrankAngeela, I don't even know if he gets jokes, but he gets to be really sassy and over the top in a way that you'd want Skeletor to be.

>> Rob: So, yeah, I would say a dandy dark side makes sense because he's not silly in the way that the animated version is. But he's not deadly serious, as we've talked about on this podcast before, where, sometimes these villains are way too serious. Like, he definitely is having fun. Meg Foster is a great, like, second banana villain there as well. And there's a. Lots of, like, Yeah, I love that even Tea think in this most recent viewing stood out to me because while she doesn't have a lot of lines or a lot to do, I love that she's just always the first one to want to like shoot something or punch someone. It's like a fun little characteristic for this character who otherwise isn't given much to do. But I think that actually all that supporting cast kind of makes up for having your central character, he man be not very well developed.

>> Guido: Yeah, so. So I think it works, but again, not so much as he man. And in terms of situating it in he man lore, it hasn't been revisited or anything. It does have a stinger. I think it's probably quite an early use of the stinger.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: because it's flat out setting up a sequel which of course never happened. But it. Yeah, it's never. I don't. There's been no reference to it. There was no adaptation of it. Novelization of it.

>> Rob: There's no, no novelization, no comic book. Which also feels like it would make complete sense. Like that the.

>> Guido: That.

>> Rob: That these didn't exist seem so odd. I guess maybe it being a canon film not being made by one of the major studios, they just didn't have the money to say, pay an author to do a novelization as well.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah. I don't know why. And there is a comic, I've remembered that we have upstairs that Mattel did a one issue adaptation, but it's actually even. It's a loose adaptation, which is even more odd. but yeah, we've talked about that. This movie doesn't have like when you look at Dick Tracy three years later, like the licensing on this movie clearly for whatever reason did not happen. Either they knew it was going toa fail or they were worried about it or canon just couldn't put the money. But there is very little product. I mean there were no toys at the time. There have since been masters figures done of the movie versions, but there were no toys at the time. There were so few tie in products. It's shocking.

>> Rob: Well, I had seen too that the MoT to line the figures were. The sales were starting to dip as well. So I guess the overall.

>> Guido: Well, it had been canceled at this point.

>> Rob: Oh. yeah. So it's kind of.

>> Guido: It's part of the issue.

>> Rob: Probably it's kind of the inverse of Batman just two years later because Batman was kind of, I wouldn't say a dead product. Obviously the comics were happening, but most people probably knew Batman from the 66 series at that point and like that movie totally relaunched Batman and suddenly everything was branded Batman. It was almost the opposite. It was like taking this thing that had kind of become niche and, like, blowing it up. And this was taking this big thing that had kind of started, to.

>> Guido: But was right at the end of its life.

>> Rob: We're trying to keep it alive, but, no, we can't.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: And what is the overall. We love this movie. What is the overall perception within Master World? Guido, with, like, this movie? Do, you know, do people, like, love this movie or do they love it nostalgically?

>> Guido: I think it's mixed. I mean, and I've been in Moju fandom since the 90s in the early days of the Internet. But luckily, I don't as. As you know, I don't like following fandoms, but my sense of people, just from spending all these years connecting to people, tape trading and all that stuff is people. No one thinks, oh, this is a great he man movie. I don't think, though, people are, like, offended by it. I think that people either don't like it and think it's a not great movie, or they're like me. They appreciate it for what it is, but it does not fill their need for a He man movie. So I don't think anyone thinks it's a good Masters of the Universe movie. I don't think there's a He man fan that would be like, oh, yes, that's my He Man. but I think that people can appreciate it as the movie that it is, and some people don't appreciate it for the movie that it is. So, yeah, it's always fun to revisit ITE.

>> Rob: It is. It is. And we're gonna hop in that pink Cadillac and bring in one of Orko's magic spells to transport us over to exploring multiversity.

>> Guido: I am your guy through these vast new realities.

>> Rob: Follow me and ponder the question.

>> Guido: What if?

>> Rob: And today we are asking the question, what if he man fought to become Master of the Multiverse? And what if it spawned a loose sequel to the 1987 film in the process? This is he man and the Masters of the Universe. no. He man and the Masters of the Multiverse issues oneember.

>> Guido: Modem. Modem.

>> Rob: Yeah, modem. Exactly. My modem is broken. So this is from DC Comics from January to July 2020. And it's just titled the Masters of the Universes.

>> Guido: No, Master of the Universe.

>> Rob: Master of the Universes.

>> Guido: Singular.

>> Rob: One fl.

>> Guido: You can't get all these. All these mismatched singular.

>> Rob: Well, it's, like, slightly different, you know, it's like tricking my brain's muscle memory to how I'm supposed to say it.

>> Guido: So this 6 issue seem series is written entirely by Tim Seealeley. More on him in a moment. It's penciled originally by Dan Fraga, though by issue three he's getting help from Tom Denick, who takes over for issues four through six. It's inked by Richard Friend again. Tom Dearnik then steps in to help and takes over. It's colored by Matt Yaki. It is lettered by Sada Timaffante and edited by Michael McAllister. Tim Seey is known as a mega He man fan. He shows up in documentaries and things about he man that are completely separate from the fact that he's a comic book writer and artist. He drew and wrote on GI Joe, on Grayson Nightwing for dc, created Hack, Slash and more recently Local man as some indie titles and just a whole lot more is known generally for comedy, action superhero stuff. Dan Fraga, who created the first few issues, is a longtime comic book artist and storyboard artist who did some writing and comic creating in the 90s, but really does storyboards mostly and recently was the storyboard artist for the Doom Patrol TV series. And this is the final use of DC's license for he man. So after this, DC loses the license, this is the end of many dozens and dozens of issues that they've published at this point. And Dark Horse starts doing he man comics tied into the Netflix revival series after this. So this is kind of meant to be the end of that run. So why don't we do a quick summary of the six issues and then we'll dive in.

>> Rob: So the Anti he man, who is a version of he man that has become corrupted by power and kind of looks like a photogative version of he man is gobbling up the energies of greay skulls and killing He Mans across the multiverse. So versions of our hero recruit Prince Keldor from the one universe that Kldor doesn't become the evil Skeletor in order to hop around the multiverse trying to stop Anti He Man. And of course they encounter more versions of he man and the Masters and Skeletorss along the way. Can they stop Anti he man before he becomes the most powerful being in the multiverse? And is Keldor always destined to become a Skeletor? You have to read to find out.

>> Guido: Or we'll end up spoiling in this discussion. So want to comics?

>> Rob: I didn't want to give it all away in case knew it.

>> Guido: Five years. Five years. Just because you have comics sitting on your reading pile for five years doesn't Mean the rest of us do.

>> Rob: That's true. True.

>> Guido: There are a lot of worlds that we see here. And to get us started in the lore before we talk about the story and our reactions to it, even just the use of Anti he man and Anti Attia. This comes from a German storybook audio tape that was released between 85 and 87. So that is where we are with Tim Seey's use of lore here, which, all we can talk about if we think it weights it down or helps it. And so this is a character that has never been in any other iteration. No concept, nothing that he pulls out. And of course, now there's. There's toys of it, stuff like that. So cool.

>> Rob: He made it up. Like, until you told me. Oh, no, this comes from a. We have the toy upstairs. I didn't even know that we had the toy.

>> Guido: So, he also gets to include 1989's New Adventures of He man, the filmation original cartoon He Man. Of course, we step into the mini comics world at one point, which is sort of the prime earth that Anti he man is trying to get the power from, because that'll help him essentially break the source wall if we realize he's just Dark side the tapper of Grykull iOS games. So this was the iOS game probably from the 2010s that, like, was the first recurrence of he man that you played. And you just had to like, tap the screen constantly. Have he man be people up that. We probably see the DC Comics world briefly. I think that He Mant at the end, which I want to talk about might be the one from the comics that we've already covered. We have the characters from the 2002 animated series. And of course, rather centrally, we have the characters from the 1987 film.

>> Rob: Yeah, yeah. Because that he man is kind of after. Well, really, he's like our most. Our biggest he man in the story is the Dolph Lungren version of he man. Because our main character really is Kald'or so he's not a, He Man. So we got lots of that. The Dolph He Man. And then we see Gwildor, who's kind of the one who sets this whole events into. Into process, where he's the one that says, oh, Keld do is the. Is the key. We need. You need to get him involved in this.

>> Guido: Yeah. So what do you think of it? You stepping in with less. Less lore?

>> Rob: well, what I think Tim does really well. And I think this is the Key to doing these kind of multiversal stories is that you don't need to know the lore in order to enjoy them. I think that obviously gives you a certain extra enjoyment from it. But for example, like, when we get to the mini comics version, this is a more serious. It's like the filmation version, but serious kind of like. And like, I didn't need to have ever read the mini comics because I haven't just to understand this or appreciate it. I could just take, oh, this is kind of like the Conan version of he Man. But I don't need to have actually read the source material in order to get that. So I think in that way it very much all stands on its own. What do you think?

>> Guido: Yeah, it's funny. I think, part of me wonders if it actually then benefits from like, ignorance is bliss a little in it because I think I like it overall, but it at times feels a little weighted down to me. But in part I think that's because I'm thinking through like, oh, where'that character coming from? What's the whole storyline? I know with them. So it's interesting to hear that, like, you didn't feel that the same weight of including all these different characters in part because you didn't have the familiarity. So I don't think it's majorly detrimental to the book. But I just think there were times where to me it almost felt like the book didn't have room to breathe because there was a lot happening in it. And I'd say he does a pretty good job. Like, the New Adventures world is probably the one we actually spend the most on, interestingly, which is like a little over an issue we spend on the spaceships maybe, because that's the most different.

>> Rob: So the other one are just like, oh, it's Attia. It's, you know, it's another planet. But that one is like it's in outer space. It's a whole different setup and the characters are all different.

>> Guido: They're fun to draw to and they've never been in a comic book. Yeah. So, yeah. So there might be a lot of reasons that that happens. And I, I, yeah. And there's some stuff like with the lore that I love. Like, I love that. I mean it's basically if, if you, if you couldn't tell from our summary, it's basically a crisis on Infinite Earth, slash into the spider verse plot, without a doubt inspired by those things. And they set up that he's going for this prime power and it's Fun that it's the mini comics because of course, that's the first version of the human mythology because they are re what come out with the toys, which predates everything else, predates every other version. So there's little stuff like that almost meta that I feel like he's doing, even with, the Tapper of Gray Skull. So the Tapper is a little cartoon character and he dies, he gets killed. And in the end they are, like, honoring him. And there's some line in there about like, well, at least he brought us to the masses or something like that. And I'm like, oh, this is definitely a meta line about the fact that this silly little video game came out, but at least it's getting the brand out there again. So I think Tim Seey being such a fan again, for better and for worse, has a lot of those little storytelling things in.

>> Rob: In the filmation world. Because KH do is like saying, like, they're always learning lessons.

>> Guido: They have. Every day they have a different moral. Yeah.

>> Rob: and the characters, they are so. Well, they're so distinct on the page because they are drawn exactly like the Filmation series and colored that way. So they really pop because the other characters are still drawn a little bit comic book Y, like, but then the filmation ones are like, totally from a different property. So that really pops. And then even the way they speak, because some of the other ones get to beat sound a little bit more of the same note. But those characters, the way they speak is so you can hear them right away. Like, I hear John Irwin's voice, right? Like, doing that he man and that kind of like, upbeat, chipper way of speaking. So right. Right away. And even the way they have Skeletor, they have him go. You're like, y, yuck, yuck. Like in the text boxes. So you can just hear that Alan Oppenheimer voice as well.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. It's really fun when they get brought in. The other one that I want to mention before we get into the movie, since that's our focus today, is the one who comes through, who I think is his costume is the one from the DC title that we read. And the DC title doesn't end with this, but I like, I don't know if you noticed that they talk about how he the one that comes in and he's the one who opens. It's essentially like, an endgame portals moment. He opens the portal and all these different versions of he man start coming through. And it turns out that he has actually found a way. It's very much the finale of Buffy because he has found a way to give everyone the power of He Man. So he is. No, it's no longer the Chosen One. He's sharing the power.

>> Rob: And so these anti he man can't like just like go after one of them. He kind of has to go after all of them because they all have the power of GRY Skull together.

>> Guido: Yeah. So it's really. It's fun. I love that twist. And again, I'm sure it's directly inspired by Buffy and I like that it's probably the DC Comics version doing it since it. This is kind of the heralding the end of the DC Comics version. But so let's get into the movie characters and let's first explain what we mean by this kind of being a sequel because we actually get more information about the movie universe than any other canon has ever given us, I think.

>> Rob: Yeah. They actually talked about the fact that the war has continued to rage on. And I was thinking, Geeter, do you think this is even a reference to the fact that at the end of Masters.

>> Guido: Exactly. That. That Skeletor is not dead.

>> Rob: Y. Skeletor is not dead. He comes back and like that the war has. Has continued.

>> Guido: Right. So the peace we have at the end of the movie doesn't remain. They're continuing to war. And it's made the Dolph Luneren he man quite a cynical he man because he's been at war for so long. And then we even find out other backstory. Like for example, the fact that he never. He gave up his Prince Adam identity.

>> Rob: Oh, yes. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, that's so. It's so interesting. And it actually goes back to your initial point about the fact that the 87 movie isn't really a, Master movie because we don't have Prince Adam. We don't have him like a transformation sequence. And now, yeah, it is explained that he gave up the Prince Adam and that instead of like taking the sword and turning into he man every time, he basically turned into he man once. He was like given the power once and then it like has stuck with him. So it's very interesting that Tim is kind of actually retrofitting this all from the 87 movie to like make a lot more sense actually man make it a little bit more he man in that way because it actually gives it more backstory.

>> Guido: Yeah. And then in terms of the continuation of this world, in the final page, when we see all of the He Mans returning to their different universes now that this threat has been removed. We see Teila man at Arms and we see a new character who is designed here but set in the movie universe, which is the most interesting part. And what's cool is in the trade paperback they actually give you the character design. So this is a character they created called He Saw. And He Sol is a black he man with the battle armor, he manned chest plate on. and so he's standing there with the man at Arms and the teila from the 1987 film. So it's giving us a sense that they're still alive and they're still fighting the good fight now with he Man. But they also have this new ally that we don't even know who it is. So it's a really fun way to give fans of that world a bit of a continuation.

>> Rob: And do you think that character, just the soul, could that be a reference to the black like he manage JN action line where what were they called, like the sun? Something with sun?

>> Guido: Yes, totally. I'm sure it is a reference to that, to the Sunman line of figures because Sol soul is the word for sun. So I'm sure it is a reference to that. Yeah, I would think, yeah, it's not a direct character from that, but I would think it's a reference to it.

>> Rob: And like I mentioned too, like Wildor play, we only kind of see him in like holograph form, but he does play such an integr role to kind of kicking this off and the cosmic key, which is like one of the things I think if you're a fan of the 87 movie, you associate with that movie so much that plays such a key role. I would imagine that, you know, we could ask Tim because I would imagine that was one of the inss that Tim had to this story. It's like, well, there's already a device that's in the he human universe that that can let you go to any universe. Yeah, universe, universe, anywhere in galaxy. So like why not use that for a multiversal story? It actually makes a lot more sense than say like something like no Way Home that has to kind of introduce a whole new device to get that story here. We have it already built to the lexicon.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, I agree totally. So I think this fulfills its mission. I think it's fun. Obviously it's fun for newer readers like you. It's fun for older readers like me. I think it does give us a good multiversal story. And it does give us a, continuation of the 1987 film, so. Checks a lot of boxes.

>> Rob: Yeah. Now, would you. Yeah. Would. I don't know if I'RECOMMEND this to someone maybe who doesn't know any he man. But I think that's true of any, any multiversal story. I think if you come into it with no knowledge, it might be a little hard to follow. If you come in with more like intermediate knowledge like my, then it's fine. Like, you can appreciate the story. You can just. You can tell the characters apart. And then if you're someone like you, a super fan, then obviously there's a whole nother level of enjoyment on top of that. But if you're brand new, maybe this is not the place to start with Masters.

>> Guido: The only thing I'd say is if you maybe if you are a fan of the movie, for example, you could read this. Let's say someone's a fan of the movie and hasn't consumed anything else. E man, you could read this. And then maybe youre like, oh, I want to go see who was that? He man in space with a long ponytail. You know, I want to go find out who these other he men are. So it could inspire a little bit like that. But yes, it definitely helps to have at least a cursory knowledge of the world here. I'SAY.

>> Rob: Okay, well, let this be our final segment. It's pondering possibilities. Will the future you describe be avertedertderted? So, Guido, what are we talking about for pondering possibilities?

>> Guido: Well, we do this a lot, but. And while we talked briefly about Sheir Ra and the new movie, we haven't really talked about the new movie of he man forthcoming in 2026. What we want out of it.

>> Rob: The question long last. This has been pro. If people don't know, this has probably been one of the movies most stuck.

>> Guido: In what theyman Hell. Oh, there's been versions of it for over 20 years.

>> Rob: And I think, like, this, I think even just in the past, I want to say, like, 10 years. Yeah, no, 10 years. There's been like, three other act or two other actors that were cast as he man during just like the last 10 years. Like, now it's like the third actor, like.

>> Guido: And even companies have, changed companies.

>> Rob: Netflix to Sony to now Netflix and now to Amazon, mgm.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, it's really. It's been a wild journey, but it's actually here. And so we can talk about it in general, though I also want to talk about it through the lens of both the 1987 film and the Masters of the Multiverse. Like, do we think it's gonna use any of that? What is it doing? What is itnna try to do? I don't know if you saw it, but just a few days ago, Mechanec got cast. No.

>> Rob: No.

>> Guido: Oh my gosh. So they're going totally nuts. And I just can't understand how a movie is going to sustain all these characters. But I am here for it. I am so excited that we have Fisto and Mechanec and we have Evelyn and Tila and we have Randor. I mean we just. Ram man, we have everyone. I mean, I'm not even listing, I think a third of the people that have been cast in this movie.

>> Rob: Now, now the one thing I'm wondering for you, Guido, because, of course we started this conversation by saying that the 1987 movie we'd like, but it's not really a Masters movie because most of it also doesn't even take place on Eternity. Now, kind of some of the rumors for this movie is that there's at least a good portion of this movie that takes place on Earth.

>> Guido: Well, it might not. I don't know if you could say a good portion.

>> Rob: Okay, well, the part, the idea is.

>> Guido: The plot might get set off on Earth, but that could be the 10, 15 minute prologue. So True, true.

>> Rob: But I guess what I'm saying is like, does will you. How much of a Master's movie does it need to be for you to enjoy it in that way? Like, do you have a feeling that this is still going to be like, not quite all the way? Or is this going to be what you want from like leadaning all the way in?

>> Guido: I have no idea. But I want it to be what I want, which I think is what most Masters fans want. And I think watching the 87 movie yet again just this week prior to this episode, I think there'even though there are the negative toxic fandom out there, like slash news media already going in for it and like talking about how messed up it's going to be and blah, blah, blah, I don't think it's going to take place on Earth. There's no way you can be casting Mechac and Ram man and have this movie take place on Earth and then watching the 1987 movie. Part of the issue with that movie, and this was, I think mainly driven by budget, is that that entire movie takes place on Earth. So I don't think they're going toa make that same mistake. They're not going to try to reproduce the 1987 movie. I would think someone smart enough exists in this chain. And we know that the people at Mattel who manage this brand, like Rob David, are huge fans of he man and have really taken great care. They're responsible for the Netflix revival series with Kevin Smith and all of the toys that are coming out now. Like they have taken such great care of this brand. I don't think anyone is going to recreate the things that make the 1987 movie not a motu movie. M

>> Rob: How would you feel? Like I'm. The other thing that's been speculated is that we'll lean into some of kind of the Barbie meta ness in that way. Like how do you feel about some of that idea?

>> Guido: Again, I don't, I don't think that's true because I, I mean I loved Barbie and I want not a Barbie toy fan, but I'd imagine even as a Barbie toy fan there's not a world that you can walk into.

>> Guido: There's not a whole mythology of Barbie. There are the different Barbies and she has different jobs and she has a sister and all of that stuff. He man is a whole world. And I think they'd be foolish if they rob authenticity from the story by making it campy because we want to walk into that world and it can be funny and it can have fun and there could even be a few meta things in the segments on earth. But I think the whole movie can't have that tone if you want to create a world that people want to step into and want more of at that. So I, I also suspect that's rumoring, but who know.

>> Rob: Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what it is and I definitely am holding my being open to it, I think. On one. On the other hand, I think while I do love the 87 movie, I think this one new one could look great too. I think there's something about the world that works so well in animation and I think I loved the two Kevin Smith seasons which Tim worked on as well. And I think maybe there's something that some of these characters, even the character of he man himself because like he could never. You're never going to be casting an actor that looks like that actually in a movie. Like you cannot replicate it even if you're Dolph Lundgren. So maybe there's something that almost works better in animation. And I kind of hope that we'll still see a continuation of that world in Animation as well.

>> Guido: Yeah. Although I'm thinking about a movie that you love that would be a good to me reference point is Dick Tracy.

>> Rob: True.

>> Guido: There are so many scenes of Dick Tracy that the reason that movie is so extraordinary and those of us who love it, love it is because there are just scenes that you could watch and they look like comic book illustrations.

>> Rob: Yes. But you would need a director like what Warren Beatty would did with that movie where you're going to limit the color palette and things like that, like to really lean into that. So I'm curious. I don't think that's what they're gonna be doing with this new movie.

>> Guido: I don't think it's quite as stylized. But I just mean if you have someone who visually is attending to the way it looks with that in mind, it could work.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: But yes, that doesn't seem to happen for that many movies nowadays. But hopefully, hopefully we're wrong. Do you think there will be anything multiversal about this movie, which is obviously such a storytelling trend of the last. yeah, but years?

>> Rob: I don't think, I don't think so. I mean now, of course, if anything is true, we'll have some on Earth and some on Eternia, but not. I don't think we're gonna see a multiversal. Maybe just because it's been so done and what little that we'll still have in movies is gonna still remain providence of, of. Of Disney and mcu. So maybe people just want to avoid it at this point. So no, I don't think we're gonna have anything multiversal. I think'if you were to have Dolph Lundgren pop up in this movie, then like it's going to have to fully embrace camp. You know, it's gonna have to go all the way into like, into a mode that would very much be like making fun of.

>> Guido: It'll be like George Clinney at the end of the Flash.

>> Rob: That's so funny because. Yeah. I don't know why those even feel different. I mean, maybe like. Yeah. I don't know. Is maybe because there's. There's something about Delph flunken or that 87 movie that just is even more campy. Even though actually Batman and Robin is actually a far campier movie than 1987 Masters of the Universe.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: Would you ever. Not that we're ever going to see it, but. And of course, if this movie does not do well, I unfortunately think it's going to be like not the death of he man. Because I don't think these products ever die, but I think it's gonna be a long hibernation of he man, at least in terms of like, a live action film. But would you want to see a sequel, a direct sequel to the 87 movie in, like, animated? Well, obviously it's not going to be live action, but like an animated form and comic book form, like they've done with the Batman 89 comics. Like, is that something that you'd want to see?

>> Guido: I think a comic would be interesting, and I think only if it continued down the path that Tim Seey took us on in this miniseries where you're building that world out, I think the world itself. While we've said the good things we have about that movie, the world itself doesn't. Isn't very interesting. It doesn't have a lot that can sustain it from what we see on screen there. Like, we don't know anything about even why all these people are reporting to Skeletor. Like, we don't know anything about anything. There's no backstory, which is part of why the pace probably works so well. But if you had a comic series that gave you a little more of that backstory, told you a little more about Eviln and how she got connected in that earth or what happens to her now in the future or something, like, yeah, I'd be interested in that. Not a movie, though, certainly. I think a comic would work.

>> Rob: Yeah, I'd love to see a comic continuation. And maybe if this new movie is a big success, they'll go, well, let's like, go back to one of these other he man properties and tell like, a new story through it. Like, I could totally see that happening there.

>> Guido: Well, and since this series that we ve read here, there have not been original he man comics coming out that have not been tied to a property. So every comic since this has been tied to the Netflix series. Either a prequel or like, a taking place in the world of kind of thing. So there is the potential. I don't know who. Where the license is. I don't know if Dark Horse still has it or if Dark Horse just got it for the Kevin Smith series. But there is the potential that when this movie comes out next year, could spawn a new comic book series or a whole new comic book world of he man, which I'd be very excited for. So we shall see.

>> Rob: I don't. I don't remember when the new movie is coming out.

>> Guido: I'm all, the summer release next year. I don't remember when, but I still.

>> Rob: Thinking it might like have some like it's been so cursed that like something isnna happen, right? The Thor, it comes outazon like they.

>> Guido: Showed footage of Cinemacon and again now that you know, last week having Mechane get cast, like they've gone so deep down their list of characters that it's like, oh, this is actually happening. They are film.

>> Rob: I'll tell that to the Batgirl movie. So.

>> Guido: Oh, that's a terrible curse to put on it. All right, well, that is a wrap. Dear Watchers, thank you for listening. I've been the most powerful man in the universe.

>> Rob: Guido and I have been skelearrob.

>> Guido: The reading viewing list is in the show notes. Follow us online. Go check out our episodes, @deerwatchers.com.

>> Rob: Leave us a five star review wherever you listen. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.

>> Guido: In the meantime, in the words ofwatu, keep pondering the possibilities.