Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

>> Rob: In brightest day, in darkest night, it's amalgam time. So hold on tight to dear watchers and omniversal comic book podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

>> Guido: We are traveling with you through the stories and the worlds that make up an omniverse of fictional realities we all love. and, ah, your watchers on this journey are me, Guido, and me, the real star Sapphire. This podcast, Rob and oh, my gosh, it's a flashback. Cause I think it's been almost a year since we've seen our dear friend Ethan make mine amalgam. Hi, Ethan.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yes, hello. Good to be back.

>> Guido: Yeah. And you are fully decked out in your iron man and green Lantern gear today. I love it on theme. Oh, look at that. And even you got the toys out. Our listeners are very excited to hear about all of your things. I wish we could be visual so that we could capture your energy, because you suggested this episode. And we're going to find out more about, why and what you put together in just a moment.

>> Rob: But before we begin today's trip, Gita, what's new in our little section of the multiverse?

>> Guido: I don't think much. Comic Con is soon, and we keep saying that, but it finally is actually soon. So New York comic Con's in October, but otherwise, I'm just gonna keep on, keep on keeping on.

>> Rob: What's closer to spooky season? Which it now is. That's what I associate Comic Con with. So when it's Halloween is coming, then Comic Con is coming.

>> Guido: Yeah, we are right in between summer and Halloween season, basically.

>> Rob: But if you are joining us for the first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse, origins of the story, exploring multiversity and pondering possibility. So thanks for coming along.

>> Guido: And please, as always, leave a five star review wherever you're listening and find us on social media at Dear Watchers.

>> Rob: And with that, dear Watchers, welcome to episode 141. Let's check out what's happening in the omniverse with our travels today's alternate universe. So we are polishing up our spiffiest armor to answer the question, what if iron man and Green Lantern amalgamated to become Iron Lantern?

>> Guido: And of course, that's the question Ethan brings to us, even though we've covered plenty of non amalgams together. we had to return to Amalgam for your return to us. So quick, quick background. We have covered amalgam before, starting with Spider Boy in episode 36. We covered Doctor Strange Fate, episode 44, speed demon, 55, dark cloth, 73. Amazon in 130. So go find those episodes. We give a full history of amalgam in that spider, boy episode back in 36. So go listen there. Over 100 episodes ago. Wow. Gosh.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And I don't think we're halfway through Amalgam.

>> Guido: No, I know we've barely scratched the surface, which is pretty wild. And this is well timed because, amalgam is about to get a boost, which we can talk about at the end. So this is also in terms of the characters we are dealing with today. This is our first Green Lantern episode, and we've only covered Iron man briefly back in episode twelve when he goes to King Arthur's time. Ethan, meanwhile, thank you, as always, for joining us. This is your 11th episode with us.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Heck, yeah.

>> Guido: That is so exciting. I think you probably maintain the record of most, guest appearances. I know you and Elliot were neck and neck for a while, but I think you've made a secure lead at this point. So nice. I think you're safe, and we love having you on. So thank you. If anyone wants to find those amalgam episodes or Ethan's guest appearances, if you go to dearwatchers.com and click episodes, you can search the whole catalog or just search wherever you're listening. And you can find our amalgam episodes and Ethan's guest appearances. And before we get into our backgrounds with these characters, Ethan, why Iron Lantern? Why is he our question for today?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I think it just kind of had a hankering to revisit this particular one. There wasn't any, like, real itch that needed to be scratched. That was specific. Just that, like, oh, you know what? We haven't talked about Iron Lantern, and I felt like talking, about Iron Lantern.

>> Guido: Yeah. And he's a pretty key amalgam. And, I have a feeling you would be happy with any amalgam that we covered so.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Well.

>> Rob: We have covered our own backgrounds with amalgam in the past, so we're not going to dive deep into that. But as you said, guido, we have pretty much never covered Iron man. Just that one episode. And we have never covered Green Lantern, a pretty big character. So let's talk a little bit about our backgrounds with those characters. So, Ethan, you're our special guests, so why don't you kick us off? What's your background with Green Lantern and Iron man?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Well, Green Lantern and Iron man are both characters. I know a little bit about both. in high school, I was reading a lot of Green Lantern, but mostly because of, the Geoff Johns stuff. I always consider blackest night to be my event comic, because that was the one. That was the one that was. That was, like, big when I was really avidly collecting.

>> Guido: Uh-huh.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And so, maybe that's kind of the connection I have with Green Lantern, but I haven't really read much of the old school stuff. so that must have been another reason why I was looking forward to doing Iron Lantern, but, I kind of knew about him through cartoons. Actually, I forgot to put this in my notes. My first exposure to Hal Jordan was the Daffy Duck Buck Rogers parody Duck Dodgers tv show. Oh, of course, my age, when I. I proudly say this. When I was a kid and I watched, the Justice League cartoon, Jon Stewart was my first Green Lantern. And I remember as a kid, just accepting, oh, cool, grand Lantern's a black dude. And then I. And then I saw that there was a whole core, and I was like, oh, cool, there's a whole bunch of them. But yeah, John was my first. My first Green Lantern M. And then with Iron Man, I think I've read more appearances of the character than actual issues of his series, per se. but that said, this readdez, this read through has actually made me want to check, out more of both.

>> Guido: Oh, I can't wait to hear why. Exciting.

>> Rob: How about you, Guido? I know these are, like, top tier characters for you. No, no, they're not top tier characters.

>> Guido: But you said they were.

>> Rob: Oh, no, I said not.

>> Guido: No, not at all. Well, like you, Ethan, it's Green Lantern. I have almost no exposure or interest in. I read zero hour and could not understand Parallax and as it was coming out, and because I didn't care about Hal Jordan at all, ordinary Lantern and the cosmic stuff didn't interest me. But I love def Johns. So I did read Rebirth and some of the rebirth era, but then I fell off because the characters just don't do it for me. and the whole, like, cosmology of the Green Lanterns doesn't really do it for me. The Hal Jordan Green Lanterns, the Alan Scott Green Lantern, I really like and think, so that's him. I'm so. I'm not a fan and don't know a lot. I don't hate the character. I just am not a fan. I saw the movie. He is a blind spot. Iron man is somewhat the same, but just because I was such a Marvel reader for most of my life, I know a lot more about Iron man. I've having read every event and every iteration of Avengers and West Coast Avengers. Like, I know a lot about Iron Man. I read some of the 98 Kurt Busiak reboot of Iron man post Heroes Reborn. but otherwise, I also haven't read a lot of the classic Iron Mans. And I have fun when I do, but I never am. Like, oh, I'm gonna sit down and do a giant read through. So I know a lot about Iron man, but I'm not a fan. And so that's my deal with Hal and Tony. Hal and Tony. Also, it feels like they should open a pizza place together.

>> Rob: Yes.

>> Guido: Hal and Tony's. Rob, what about you?

>> Rob: Well, with Green Lantern, I maybe read one Hal Jordan comic ever. Like, you mentioned zero hour guido. And that Ethan was my event that I read. I love zero hour, but him being parallax at the end, it really didn't really mean that much to me. The Green Lantern I read the most of was Alan Scott. Cause growing up, I did love the JSA and the all star squadron. So I could never really understand, especially in pre Internet times, why were there two Green Lanterns? They're dressed totally different. Their powers are a little different. So that was a little beyond me there. And for Iron man, he would pop up in various books, like a Spider man. He'd make, like, a little appearance or something like that. But I think, like both of you, I never really read an Iron man book. Where I really knew Iron man from was the animated tv show in the nineties with the Mandarin and the Grey gargoyle. And I used to love that show. I have not revisited it in a very long time, so I do not know if it would hold up at all. But that was definitely my Iron man.

>> Guido: So, yeah, we're all about the same. We know these characters exist, but we don't know a lot about them. So let's see what happens when we dig in.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Something that came, to mind when I was reading this. And again, this is not why I chose it, but it's just a weird. I coincidence the Iron man movie came out in 2008. The Green Lantern movie came out in 2011. Just kind of weird that they came out around the same time.

>> Rob: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Guido: They're both, like, early in the modern heyday of comic book movies, and I've never. Only one was really successful, and one.

>> Rob: And I've never seen the Green. The Green Lantern movie. I'm sure a lot of people have not. But I do think what I do see is that there's an alien species that's crash landed in the distance. So why don't we go and investigate with our origins of the story right now on this very show, you're gonna get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago. So first, let's talk about the origins of our two main characters here, Tony and Haldeman, owners of the best pizza place in Brooklyn. First up is showcase number 22 from DC Comics. This is entitled so's Green Lantern from October 1959.

>> Guido: So this is the first appearance of Hal Jordan as Green Lantern, which is the reborn, rebooted Green Lantern with this cosmic origin. It's written by John Broome, penciled by Gil Cain, inked by Joe Giella, lettered by Gaspar Saladino, and edited by Julie Schwartze.

>> Rob: And next up is tales of suspense number 39 from Marvel, entitled Iron man is born from March 1963.

>> Guido: This is the first appearance of Tony Stark and Iron man, written by Stan Lee and Larry Lieber, penciled by Don Heck, who also does the inks. Colored by Stan Goldberg, lettered by Artie Simek, and edited by Stan Lee. So origins of our guys today.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Well, both of these. I don't know if I've read these exact issues before, but I've definitely read variations on there.

>> Guido: Totally. Yeah. It's amazing for non top tier characters, at least to the three of us. And I'd say to most people, both of these origins are so, known by comic fans. I'm sure people outside of comics don't know the origins so well of these two, other than the MCU movies, of course, but just everything with ab and Sur giving Hal the Lantern. I agree with you, Ethan. I was reading it and was like, I don't know if I've read this issue and yet I know this so well.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: It's also been in cartoons.

>> Guido: Yeah. And I guess it's been redone so many times that we have been exposed to the ideas.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Also, side note about, the Green Lantern oath, I was simultaneously able to skim it and read the whole thing at the same time because I may not be able to remember why I walked into the kitchen, but gosh darn it, I can recite the Green Lantern oath.

>> Guido: Well, it is so well constructed with the rhyming pattern and stuff. I think, yeah, I agree with you. I feel like I can recite that also. Even though I probably would have forgotten, you know, Carol's last name or something. I don't know a lot about this.

>> Rob: Well, and like so many comics of its era, it just says, okay, hal, you are gonna be the new Green Lantern because you were a good person. And that's it. Like today, I think. Or if this was a movie, I'm sure this happens in the movie. We would see a whole scene as to, like, oh, here's Hal Jordan and he's saving a puppy and he's a nice person and we get to know him here. It's just like, no, I have spoken. I know that you. That the ring has told me you are good. It just, like, cuts right to the chase.

>> Guido: Well, because both of these, what's interesting about them, too, is they're both stories in a larger anthology book. So they're both actually quite short. And that means they also both rely on a lot of narration. I was surprised that the opening page in both of these issues, and they're four years apart. So I guess they're the same era. But of course, 63 are moving into the Silver Age. Both of them on the opening splash page have, like, a little description of who the character is before you even read the origin. It gives you, like, a two sentence summary of what you're about to read. So they're sort of old school in that way, but they were fine.

>> Rob: Yeah, it struck me, too, that both of them, there are echoes of other comic book characters in both of these, especially here with Hal and the love interest storyline where she is in love with Hal, but she's also in love with the Green Lantern. So it's very much the Superman Clark Lois love triangle just now moved into these new characters. And she's like, kind of Lois. She's also given a lot of onus as a character because she is like a boss.

>> Guido: Other than the fact that you need. Well, this actually doesn't come up until the next issue, but that there's an editor's asterisk explaining why she's in charge of the company. Like, they say, she's in charge of the company. And then there's a little asterisk. And the editor is like, because her dad is with her mom on, like, a global tour.

>> Rob: She is a Nippo baby. Yes. Yes.

>> Guido: So, yeah, I think they're fun. I think also, what's cool about Iron Lantern and amalgam in this is there are similarities, I think. Had you asked me for a character who's like Tony Stark in the DC Universe, I think most of us are probably inclined to say more like someone like Bruce Wayne.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah.

>> Guido: But Hal is a good analogue for him. And reading these two issues together, they're pretty similar. I think ultimately, Tony gets a lot more depth and a lot more demons and stuff like that, but in these first issues, they're both these sort of hotshots for different reasons. They're both science y. They're both good guys. so, yeah, I think it's an. It's a cool pairing that we got to read here.

>> Rob: M. There's certainly, though, a lot in the Iron man book that has nothing aged whales.

>> Guido: Oh, they're both racist.

>> Rob: They're both racist, especially lantern.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: That's pretty bad, too.

>> Guido: Yeah. Yeah, they are both racist. Let's be clear.

>> Rob: Yes, they are.

>> Guido: yeah.

>> Rob: But there's also so much with the Iron man character that I was surprised here because I didn't know from reading this that, of course, we're kind of familiar from the movie that he has to have the armor to really save himself and keep the heart going. But when this issue ends, it's kind of set up that he can't take the armor off and that he's always going to be stuck in this armor. And it has these allusions to, like, the Fantastic Four, especially the thing in that he's almost like, this monster be.

>> Guido: An outcast from society and the Hulk as well.

>> Rob: So there's that kind of Marvel thing of he's a hero, but he's also an outcast.

>> Guido: Yeah. Whereas DC's thing is the dual identity. Always the dual identity. Yeah. Yeah. So we see those core tropes in there.

>> Rob: Well, of course Iron man has a dual identity. He puts on a hat, and then suddenly you don't know that he's like a giant robot made of armor.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: Well, let's talk about our villains here. Through amalgamation of some of our leading ladies, both appeared pretty early on in the runs of our main characters. So we have Green Lantern number 16. That's the second volume from DC Comics from October 1962, and that's entitled the secret Life of Star Sapphire.

>> Guido: This is the first appearance of the already established Carol Ferris as Star Sapphire. It's written by John Broom, again penciled by Gil Caine, inked by Jojiela, lettered by Gaspar Saladino, edited by Julie Schwartz.

>> Rob: Then we have Iron man number 17 and 18 from Marvel. This is from September and October 1969, entitled the beginning of the end and even heroes die.

>> Guido: This is the first appearance of the very briefly already established Whitney Frost as Madame Mask. And it's written by Archie Goodwin, penciled by George Tuska, inked by Johnny Craig, lettered by Gene Izzo, and edited by Stan Lee. So, ethan, these were new to you, I'm assuming?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Also, pretty much, again, I may have known Carol Ferris but possibly I knew it because I knew the character. I don't know, read that issue. But that must have been. That's probably my favorite issue that I read, aside from the actual amalgam.

>> Guido: Really? Why?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I love the Xamarins. I just, I think they're just like silver, age warrior women that are basically space Amazons. I thought that was super cool. I, love the idea that their queen has to be immortal, and Carol just happened to look exactly like their queen.

>> Guido: Well, and every version of her has to look identical. So that means there's been many other versions that look exactly like that.

>> Rob: Like the Dalai Lama, kind of. Right. She just, like, reincorporates somewhere else throughout the universe.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah.

>> Guido: They're not identical, though.

>> Rob: No, no.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: It's Carol's mother and her grandmother and her great grandmother.

>> Rob: Oh, true.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I also really loved I. The trope. and I think we talked about this, where it was, like the love triangle. However. However, I like the additional layer where. Okay, well, she has a dual identity, too.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: it's like a love quadrangle now, basically.

>> Guido: Well, except she doesn't remember that she. Star Sapphire at the end of this issue. So that's, like, an interesting dynamic. And I am. Go ahead, Ethan.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah. Her costume. I think that's an ideal costume.

>> Rob: Yes. Yeah, it is. Great.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Perfect costume. Don't fix what ain't broken. I know exactly why they changed it later on, but growing up means knowing that this is the best costume.

>> Rob: Yes. Yeah.

>> Guido: I have the. It's actually blackest night era. I think I have, a, figure you would appreciate if you don't already have it, which is the Wonder Woman, Star Sapphire.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I don't have it, but I'm not.

>> Guido: When she becomes the star sapphire at blackest night, they did a figure of it. So I did that and love it.

>> Rob: Funny. Cause I don't know. Blackest.

>> Guido: Oh, cool.

>> Rob: And I don't know. Black is night. But there's so much relationship between Wonder Woman and Star Sapphire as, like, these Amazons and I. And then the human man, who's also, like, a fighter pilot. Like, there's just a lot of natural connection there.

>> Guido: Yeah. Well, and especially, like, I. I always appreciate when you have them. Like, they just hate men. They're like.

>> Rob: And they're immortal. They're no men.

>> Guido: They're so angry at Carol that she's, like, wants to stay on earth for the. Her love of this man. And that's why they're putting her through these tests or making her test Green lantern and so it is. It is a funny, clearly influenced by Wonder Woman thing that's happening. But it's different enough that I enjoyed. it also.

>> Rob: Yeah, now, that book is fairly straightforward, especially compared to the Iron man.

>> Guido: Oh, my gosh.

>> Rob: Totally like Batman 66 wacky.

>> Guido: No, but I think they're even. They're just. I'd say they're more serious than that because there is so much happening in those two issues. I can't believe I see why people fell in love with Iron man. Because the depth of storytelling at this point, I mean, you already here have, like, his brother, and you have the life model decoy, and you have Madame Mask, who was Whitney Frost, who had gotten in a plane crash and Tony Stark had saved, but then her face is all distorted. Now she's working for Midas, and it's like, there is so much going on off the panel that, like, you need to know or, or assume, you know, to read this.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And it's only issue 17.

>> Guido: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

>> Rob: Yeah. Well, as a, as a soap opera fan, Guido, I was really feeling like you must have been associating it with the soap opera element, because there's even those two other characters who. I don't even know who they are. He's, like another scientist, and she's, like another industrialist, and they're just like. Also.

>> Guido: And they're just having a romance, and you don't know why.

>> Rob: Separate from the main story.

>> Guido: I agree. I didn't know what was going on. I had no idea who they were. So there was a lot happening in the book.

>> Rob: And I love Midas, who maybe I knew in passing, but he's kind of like Maxi Zeus, Victor Buonos, King Tut from the Batman series. And he's just very pompous and exaggerated and flamboyant, and he's, like, too lazy to get out of his chair. He's just constantly eating a turkey leg and blasting people with lasers. So a great, a great villain. And then he's balanced so well with Madame Mask, because if you have a villain like that, then you want the kind of kick ass woman in all black with, like, the mask and that. She's just like.

>> Guido: She has such a good design. Yeah, I really like. That was an influence at the time.

>> Rob: He must have been influenced by Goldfinger, right? So.

>> Guido: Oh, yeah. Probably. It being 69, the Bond villain there.

>> Rob: You don't see other. I don't know if you know this, Ethan, but she reminds me of Pythona from the Gi Joe movie. Do you know the GI Joe movie? just not necessarily her design, but just again, I guess like that she's like, the second, well, there's so many characters like that. I feel like in Star Captain in the World of tomorrow, and it's always like the woman in all leather or even in Goldeneye, like, thinking about Bond villains too.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I can see that.

>> Guido: So, yeah, she was fun to read, and I was thinking about how much I loved Agent Carter because she's a character in Agent Carter. I don't know if you watched that tv show, Ethan. No, I. Yeah, it made me miss that show. because, yeah, it's a good, good depiction of her. She's a fun, fun character. I don't know, in both of these cases, what I'd say these reads did is made me want to go read a little more of those characters. Like, I would go read more Star Sapphire because I want to know, does Carol, when does Carol? I would imagine she ultimately remembers she's star Sapphire at some point in the last 60, years of comics. So I want to, like, hear that story. And with Madame Mask, she's, she's working for Midas here. I want to see when she's working for herself. I want that story, which I'm sure exists also in the last 60 years of comics.

>> Rob: So, yeah, sisters are doing it for themselves. Well, let us watch out when these universes collide. It's time to amalgamate with exploring multiversity.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question, what if?

>> Rob: And today's issue is iron Lantern number one from June 1997. There is no cover date.

>> Guido: So this is no, June 1997 is the COVID date.

>> Rob: Oh, is the COVID date. So this is waves for my notes. Rob is reading of amalgam and from Amalgam comics, which is Marvel and DC together, of course. And this issue is entitled Showdown at Stark Aircraft.

>> Guido: So it is written by Kurt Busiek, penciled by Paul Smith. More on them in a moment. It is inked by the largest team of inkers I think have ever worked on a book I've ever read, because it's Al Williamson, Andrew Poi, Greg Adams, Bob McLeod, Tom Palmer, Al Milgram, and Paul Smith.

>> Rob: And Al Williamson is given the top credit. Everyone else was, like, assisting him, apparently.

>> Guido: No idea what is going on here. Clearly rushed to get out. Colored by Christy Schiele and Digital chameleon, lettered by Richard Starkings in Comicraft and edited by Tom Brevoort. So real quick on the creators before Rob reminds us of what happens with a summary, Kurt is already a legend at this point. We know this, we've discussed him many times, but relative to these characters, he actually did two Green Lantern backups in the 1980s before he was really solidified at Marvel and would co plot Iron man, but not until 98 and that reboot. So he hadn't yet worked on Iron man at this point. That he's writing this amalgam and Paul Smith is just amazing. I don't think we've gotten to talk about him here, but he's best known by X Men fans. I think he created the Mohawk Storm and did a bunch of the early eighties Claremont era classics and has just this really sleek, like Duran Duran style, very eighties nineties. And he did do one or two Iron man books prior to this, but also hadn't worked on these characters extensively. And so, Rob, why don't you remind us what happened in this issue?

>> Rob: So Iron man is Hal Stark.

>> Guido: Iron Lantern.

>> Rob: Iron Lantern is Hal Stark, a hot shot pilot and industrialist who is summoned to a dying alien. But an accident occurs, and Stark almost diese saving himself by creating an armor out of the dead aliens tech. Our story starts with Hal bringing Hector, a Hector Hammond modoc amalgam to be imprisoned inside oa, the living planet. Meanwhile, Hal, his friends Stuart Rhodes, and Harold Kalmaku attend a fancy party. But when Senator Faris berates his own daughter, Pepper Ferris, over a failed flight test, pepper storms off and encounters a strange rock that once again turns her into Madame Sapphire. This purple menace summons the giant robot great white to disrupt the party entangle with Iron Lantern. The emerald shell head defeats the giant shark, but just then, his power source is zapped thanks to a double crossing Kyle Obrien, who substituted for Hal as the Green Guardian and is on a quest for more power. He steals Hal's power source, and as Hal plummets back to Earth, it is revealed that all of the actions are at the hands of the behind the.

>> Guido: Scenes villain whose name rolls off the tongue.

>> Rob: Menestro.

>> Guido: All right, thank you for that.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: In case anyone needs a list of various characters, here they are. Hal, we established, is toady Stark and Hal Jordan. Pepper Ferris is pepper Potts and Carol Ferris, who becomes M Madam Sapphire, who is a mixed of Madame Mask. Star Sapphire. Yeah, so she's a triple happy Kalmaku is happy Hogan and Thomas Kalmaku. Thomas Kalmaku is the mechanic friend who's.

>> Guido: The racist stereotype in the earlier issues.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yes, we will not call him by whatever the hell that other name was. Yeah, which, interesting, they say confidant, because they also mentioned, in the star Sapphire issue, that flash, is a confidant to, Hal Jordan. And did you say, Al Milgram inked, this book?

>> Guido: he was one of the people who helped Al Williamson out.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yes, well, Al Milgram also was part of the speed DJD book, so I just find that another interesting coincidence. So now it's my head cannon. That speed demon and, Iron Lantern are tight.

>> Guido: That'd be a good team up book.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: That'd be an incredible team up book. Stuart Rhodes is James Rhodey Rhodes and, Jon Stewart. So he's war machine. And John Stewart, green guardsman, is weird. So he's a guy named Michael O'Brien who became one of the guardsmen characters. And then some sources say he's guy Gardner, but they call him Kyle, so I.

>> Guido: Right, so he's Kyle Rayner.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I thought he was Kyle Rayner, but it must have been the red hair that made him guy.

>> Guido: Well, and the fact that he's a bit of a jerk, because I was thinking guy while I was reading it, too.

>> Rob: But I think there's also a guy Gardner who's working for the senator, too, along with the Henry Peter Guyrick amalgam.

>> Guido: Ah. so, I mean, we know from amalgam, and Ethan certainly can tell us this. Like, there is another Tony, stark amalgam in the amalgam universe. Like, this is not the only one.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah.

>> Guido: So they often will use characters twice, whether they're just because they were not edited super well or just because they didn't care about the rules or whatever. Who knows?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: We also have human Lantern, who was named, and he's Alan Scott, and Jim Hammond, the Android Human torch. And, we actually don't see him in this issue, but we do see him in the super soldier man of War issue where we meet a bunch of, like, JSA.

>> Guido: Right from the past. That's fun. Yeah.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Hector is Hector Hagen and Modok.

>> Guido: This is the best one.

>> Rob: Yeah, this one makes so much sense. Like, this one, as soon as they thought of it, their heads must have.

>> Guido: Yeah, but what's even better is the acronym, because all I could think was how much fun it must have been to try to come up with an acronym that works just as well as MOdok, which is, of course, a ridiculous acronym. So now we have Hector, the highly evolved creature, totally oriented on revenge. It's so awesome. I love that part.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And I just love that they put the two big headed guys together.

>> Guido: Uh-huh.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Like, it was too obvious.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: that's not.

>> Guido: Who else do we have? No, I know.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Oa, the living planet. And that is a planet. So oa, the living. So oa is a planet who's also a part of the Green Lantern Corps. And then he's mixed with ego, the living planet.

>> Guido: And whose face is that? Is that what Aoa looks like? Because it almost looks to me like they're drawing, like, I don't think the blue face, like wc fields or something. Like they're drawing some, like, 1930s man.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I thought that was supposed to be a guardian.

>> Guido: Okay.

>> Rob: Yeah. Doesn't he look. That's what the guardians look like, I guess, like, little.

>> Guido: Because he doesn't look like ego. Yeah, but it's just the. The detail there is so weird.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I took that to be just another take on Uatu, the Guardian.

>> Guido: Right.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Was not explicitly in here because he is mixed with, I would assume, Ganthet.

>> Guido: Right, that's true.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Mandarin Estro is Mandarin Sinestro.

>> Guido: And then great white, which is a lazy amalgam name.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, great white. I had to look up. Yeah, Iron man villain named Ultimo, and the Green Lantern villain shark. The latter is a shark that gets mutated and becomes partly humanoid.

>> Guido: Amazing.

>> Rob: Like.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And he has an official action figure, but the heckler doesn't.

>> Rob: I kept thinking, like, it's killer shark, but it was like, wait, I don't think killer Shark has any interactions with any of these characters.

>> Guido: No.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, I had actually thought that King Shark was one of them.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: But then I had to remind myself that King shark and lizard are mixed, but then I remind myself that it doesn't matter.

>> Guido: Right. Then he might have still been double dipped. Yeah. Anyone else or. That's everybody, right?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I believe that's everybody.

>> Guido: I think that's everybody.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I miss one. Kamaku is mixed with happy Hogan.

>> Rob: Oh, yes.

>> Guido: Yeah. So a lot of characters, a lot going on. Who wants. Who's got a take?

>> Rob: Well, I was just gonna say I remember this issue so well. It's funny, we just recently covered on the podcast Global Jeopardy. Wolverine. Global jeopardy. And that was another issue like this one where instantly, as soon as I read it, it just came back to me. So it was just, this was one of the amalgams I just read over and over. And I think, and maybe this was the same thing with you, Ethan. Like, I knew Iron Lantern almost better than I knew Green Lantern and Iron man, other than knowing the lore of those characters. But I actually probably read this more than I read either of their individual books.

>> Guido: Yeah. And Ethan, where does Iron Lantern rank for you? Is it in the top tier, top third of your amalgams? Mid third or lower third?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Robert? Probably high mid.

>> Guido: Okay.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Because, like, he's not. He's definitely not Spider boy by any means. Like, that's my all time fave. But yeah, I do think he's got a really neat costume. I love that he's got the green instead of the yellow. I always joke anytime I see a green, Iron man suit, I'm like, oh, it's Iron Lantern. And sometimes maybe somebody snuck it in. Other times, I'm m just looking for it. honestly, it's a, ah, hell of a lot better than, RDJ as, Doctor doom.

>> Guido: Maybe he's going to be Iron Lantern. Who knows? He's Hal Stark also.

>> Rob: Well, I think the thing too, for me, is that some of the times, the amalgams, while they're fun, they don't always, like, make a logical sense. But with this one, I think it just makes a lot of sense. Like, oh, he gets this alien tech that powers this armor to keep him alive. It just makes. It just works for me, like, oh, instead of a ring, which actually is kind of, like, sillier, it's like, oh, no, he creates this out of, like, a battery that can never die. That just, to me, makes sense.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I also really love the call and response that they use.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: For the, oath.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Where he says in brightest day, and then it responds with, in blackest night.

>> Guido: Yeah. And this is how he unlocks the armor, with the computer. Yeah. I think that's a very cool inclusion. Yeah, I think there are some subtle things in here, and it's no surprise coming from Kurt Busiak, who knows Marvel and DC characters probably better than almost anyone alive. And so the fact that he can do little things like that, or the origin retelling too, I think not just is great because of what you're saying, Rob, that it works together, but just the visuals. Like, they both are origins that take place in the desert and with crashed planes. And so just that visual retelling is like, oh, my gosh, these totally work. If you loved both these characters, and having just read the origin issues, like this is a perfect fusion of them. It is an amalgam, truly.

>> Rob: And pepper and Carol too, just as an amalgam characters, as these tough boss women and who are also fighters as well. It just works as well for them being these, these on again, off again love interest.

>> Guido: Although Kurt makeshi Tony, her boss, Hal. Sorry. Hal Stark, her boss in this, and I was a little annoyed by that because you had so much opportunity for. Carol is the boss, and Pepper eventually becomes the boss. At this point, she might not yet be the boss in comic continuity, but there's that line where he's like, I can't. I can't be with her. I'm her boss. And it's like, no, no, no, she's your boss. That's true. But other than that, that's my one gripe. in terms of the villain, I guess. I guess I'll add a gripe. The villain, I think it's just too, there's too much going on with the villain.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yes.

>> Guido: Maybe it's because I don't know these characters super well, but the fact that it's pepper and Carol as, star Sapphire and Madame Mask, it's like, that's a whole lot being smushed together. I think the madame mask is probably only put in there for, like, the visual element.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah.

>> Guido: I don't see a lot plot wise, that makes it important that it's Madame Mask.

>> Rob: Mm Though, visually, I think she looks great.

>> Guido: Yeah, it's a cool look.

>> Rob: There's almost a mystique quality to her, too, with the red hair and the purple skin. Yeah.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: She actually kind of looks like the ghost Rider villain Lilith.

>> Rob: Oh, yes.

>> Guido: I agree with the shape of the face and the white skin.

>> Rob: Yes.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: Yeah. And in fact, I think throughout this book, one of the highlights is the coloring. For me, it was very similar, again, to, like, the global jeopardy coloring, where everything is super bright. There's nothing that is dull tones. I think that's constant throughout a lot or common in a lot of the amalgam books that we've covered. But here, I think it's definitely amped up, especially just that color green and yellow that they choose for iron Lantern suit. It just really pops right off the page.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, I agree. It looks great. So anything else to say on Iron Lantern?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I say that I like the villains, but I wish that the main one still is, Carol, Madam Sapphire. I almost called her madam Hydra.

>> Guido: but I. She has that look, too.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah. But I think it would be cooler if they just did the. That character and not all ones and focused on her. It would have been a stronger story.

>> Guido: Yeah, I agree with that. I think some of that is, and this is, this is the double edged sword of a writer like Kurt Busiak, who knows so much. It's like Mark Gruenwald's writing too. Like, what he's trying to do, I think, is play with all these elements because he keeps referring to, like, oh, we've met her before. So, like, he's really stepping into the, like, fake world aspect of this. And so I think that's why she's not the central villain, because the idea is, like, we already know her and this is her big return, and she's gonna employ this other guy. But I totally agree with you that I would have enjoyed it a lot more if it had focused on her as the villain instead of the distraction with the mega shark out in outer.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Space and also the Green Guardsman.

>> Guido: Yes, all that, totally. And interestingly, before we move on to our final segment, so usually we include information that comes out of the trading card set. Because the trading cards have so much great backstory, and somehow Iron Lantern is completely missing from the set. I'm gonna assume there's was a deadline thing or something because it's so unusual. But what's weird is I think there are some second wave amalgam characters in the trading card set, but he's missing completely, not even a reference. So we have no additional information from that to go on.

>> Rob: Shame.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Like Mandarin estro should totally have his own car.

>> Guido: Exactly, exactly.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I want to know more about Mandarin or Hector, please.

>> Guido: Hector.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Also, maybe he, no, actually, he absolutely had a yellow ring at this point, so I don't know why Mandarin estro didn't have yellow rings, or multicolored rings.

>> Guido: Like, he could have had different, I don't know how much of the emotional spectrum existed in comics at this point. That was a different, oh, it was. Okay.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah.

>> Guido: So yeah, he could have had yellow.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: For sure, but, like, yellow would have made the most sense. But I guess they just wanted to recreate the crazy Hal Jordan killed all the lanterns. Oh, image again?

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: Yeah. All right, so shall we?

>> Rob: Yeah. Much as we don't know what's happens next with Iron Lantern, we don't know what's happening in our third segment. So let's ponder some possibilities.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Will the future you describe be averted? Diverted. Averted.

>> Rob: Because usually for this segment, I say, guido, what are we talking about for our pondering possibilities? But Guido, I don't think you know either.

>> Guido: No, I do have a few things to say in this segment, but Ethan's gonna take it away and lead us to as we ponder.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Well, Kurt Busiak did not publish another comic book, but he plotted out Iron Lantern two.

>> Guido: Get out.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I had no idea to this link that I, again, wanted to surprise.

>> Guido: You with, I'm so glad you are.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Somebody had found some, like, emails of what Iron Lantern two was going to be about. So it starts off with whoever's writing to Kurt says, I wish they hadn't ended this one on a cliffhanger. I really want to know what happens next. And then Kurt says, okay, here's what happens next.

>> Guido: Spoiler.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Pepper Ferris does not know that Hal is really iron Lantern, but Madam Sapphire does. And when she realizes just what that shooting star is, her submerged love for Hal spurs her to save him. She powers up his armor with sapphire energy, and the two of them go looking for the lantern. They catch up to Kyle just as he's had realized that Mandarin Estro is about to kill him and save both his life and the battery. Kyle becomes the Green guardsman, and the three of them open up a can of whoop ass on Mandarin Esther, which for all their power would go badly for them if not for the timely arrival of Tagak. Lantern Lord Mandarin Estro escapes, but Tagak has some revelations for Hal about Oa, the living planet. And Janus Doremus is back at Stark aircraft, and she's got secrets of her own, secrets that involve the deadly lamplight Phantom. And then they, they go through, like, back and forth, who's who, and they reply, Tagak, the leopard lord. Last appearance. I believe in the, you're a defender. He's a defender. Wouldn't you like to be a defender? Two story, way back when. And a green Lantern amalgam, the living planet, and Janus Doremus is back at Stark Aircraft and Janice Cord, head of Kordco and a love interest of Tony Stark and Crimson Dynamo mark three or so amalgamated with Eve Doremus, Hal's love interest after Carol Ferris and another heiress. A bit odd for this amalgam to be a secretary, but perhaps that's part of her dark secrets. And then they wanted to know, who's Lamplight Phantom? Yeah, it's a villain named Lamplighter from Green Lantern and a character named Knight Phantom, who is an obscure three issue Iron man foe.

>> Rob: Oh, wow.

>> Guido: That is wild.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And that's the extent of that.

>> Guido: Wow, that is so cool that that is out there. And it makes me think that I bet everyone writing amalgam issues had more stories in mind, even though they knew it was never going to be told. I think it's probably impossible as a storyteller to not be thinking a little bit more about the world you're building out. And so it's so cool that someone had this exchange with Kurt where he was willing to share, like, what he was thinking, even though I'm sure there was probably never a real intention to have a second issue of it. It was more like he was sketching it out in his mind. And that is very neat. Do you want to see that issue published?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I absolutely do. I would also really like to see whatever they can come up with with, black hand from, blackest night. Yeah, well, technically not even blackest night, because I believe he was a silver age villain that was repurposed by Johns and made way more menacing. But it makes me wonder what weird necromancing character could be mixed with, necron and, or, black hand. And then, of course, I want to see more Mandarin Astro.

>> Rob: Well, and even in the book, they do mention the secretary coming back and that she's got secrets. It's in the final, in the fake letters page. Letters page. It mentions that. So even that is speaking to the, what you were saying, guido, is that they were thinking about this.

>> Guido: Well, they wrote the fake next issues, so they had to think a little bit, at least a little bit ahead because of that. Yeah. Yeah. That's so fun. I love that that is there. It makes me want, as I've said on many of our amalgam discussions, like, I really either want someone or I want someone to pay me to take a year off and do this is write an oral history of amalgam comics, and I, and include all of these. What other ideas were out there? I bet there's even, I bet there's core amalgam titles that they didn't use that someone thought of and developed. I mean, there's no way that they came up with 27 amalgam titles and didn't come up with more than 27 and cut some. So it's so, it's so interesting, and so many of the creators are still with us. So, yeah, gotta tap into that resource.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: It's my goal. It is my goal to have at least one signature per, amalgam book.

>> Guido: Oh, how fun.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I can't get. I can't get, like, Mike Rongo signature for Spider Boy. I got Carl Kessel, though I.

>> Guido: I.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: M already did get, Keith Giffen for Thorion, thankfully. may he rest in peace. but let's just say one of those magneto, and the magnetic men. Not going to do the writer. Not going to do the writer.

>> Guido: That's a fun goal, though. And as you meet people, you can say, hey, I have this friend who wants to write an oral history of amalgam.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Absolutely.

>> Guido: because the cool thing, of course, the timing I mentioned earlier in the episode of us covering this is that for the first time in 25 years, amalgam is being reprinted as an omnibus. And I am dying for this book. It's gonna be so good. And it keeps getting delayed. It's been delayed, I think, three times now. It's now for October, although I really am worried it's just either never going to come out or it's going to get delayed even more. But they say it's coming out in October, and I can't wait. It's so cool. And I really wonder if it's going to do anything.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Well, not just the amalgam book. We're getting an amalgam book, and we're getting a crossover book.

>> Guido: Yeah. And there's so many good classic ones that haven't been reprinted either.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: So many classic ones that, again, I'm the crossover guy. I haven't even read because they're not legally streaming anywhere. I can't find Batman versus Hulk on Marvel.

>> Guido: And no, they don't put them on either service. Yeah, it's same with amalgam books.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah. And then, like, I'm not. I don't really want to pay $200 for amazing Spider man versus Superman when I know this book is going to be $150 and I can just read it, get everything I could easily, yo ho. The, these books. But I want to read it in print as intended.

>> Guido: Yeah, agreed. And what's cool is supposedly these books, and hopefully this is part of the delay, have a lot of back matter that's never been seen because all the amalgam books were printed in one set of trade paperbacks, and that's it. And so. And it had nothing in it. So this will be the first time that they're, a hardcover. B, I'm assuming they're remastering them and taking good care of the quality, and c, they're putting additional back matter, apparently sketches and other stuff. So I am so excited about this book, and I have no idea what it took legally to get them to finally do it, but it makes me very hopeful that while they were making that deal, they said they secretly have amalgam wave two coming in 2026.

>> Rob: I'm curious.

>> Guido: Wave three. Yes, that's true.

>> Rob: Well, Warner Brothers does seem kind of loosey Goosey with some of their properties now, like the fact that the new Batman animated movie series is out on Amazon rather than HBO. They do seem very open to just maybe, like, getting those characters out there in exchange for money. So maybe I could see them much more likely making a deal than Marvel lending their characters. But Marvel also probably has the infrastructure.

>> Guido: There, though public Marvel publishing is often nothing as profit generating as they want it to be, and so this is a way to do that. M. We've said, I think every time we've talked about Amalgam, we've said these companies are literally just leaving money on the table by not revisiting this. Yeah.

>> Rob: And they love events so much. I know. Just make this a. Not every year, necessarily, but every couple years, you could do a new amalgam event, and I. It just boosts both of their sales. To your point, everybody benefits.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Or even if it's just a crossover that people have been clamoring for, like Batman beyond meets Spider Man 2099, it doesn't have to be, a big deal. It could just be, hey, here's this cool one shot that people have been wanting. Like, let's make it, though.

>> Guido: I think there's enough of us now reaching the. The age, which includes the people in charge at Marvel and DC. So that's what makes me hopeful where I think if they do a crossover, most of us are going to be wanting it to be an amalgam. It's going to be hard for them. As fun as it would be to see two characters pair up, it would definitely have to be on the road to amalgam. Like, whatever that crossover is, better get me toward two characters being fused together, because that's what I'm here for.

>> Rob: Right.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And then the amalgam omnibus.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Not to just keep bringing this bastard up again, but, his particular books are not in there.

>> Guido: Oh, get out.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Not complete.

>> Guido: It's not complete.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And they should have just scrubbed his name off because one of them, JLX, was also co written by Mark M. Wade. Awesome, dude. Love mark.

>> Guido: Unless, maybe in the delays that's been changed, maybe they are putting them in. In a different way or something. Yeah, that would really be a shame if it was incomplete, especially since these are things that are so hard for people to get. I mean, this will be so many people's only path to getting it, unless they want to go digging back issues. So, yeah, let's hope it's complete. But when it finally comes out, I think it'll be time for us to do another amalgam episode together.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Indeed.

>> Guido: So for now, though, that is a wrap. Dear Watchers, thank you for listening. Ethan, thank you for joining us as always. And, Ethan, how can people find you? Because you are a world builder and I all to your own, big time.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yes, you can primarily find me on Twitter makemine amalgam. you can also find me on threads and Instagram. Make mine underscore amalgam and bluesky on Makemine amalgam, bluesky or bsky. However, those that goes close enough on blue sky, you'll find it. I'm trying to post more on those other ones, but I don't know. Twitter was like the OG, and that's the one that I just keep using.

>> Guido: You have to move over because that means we're missing most of your posts.

>> Rob: I know.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, I know. I got, like, all the, like, all the good stuff is there. So I. Unless there's some crazy way that I could just, like, transfer it without it being manual.

>> Guido: Well, people should track you down because, yeah, you build characters. You create characters. And not just, character designs and profiles, but the actual character being held in your hand. You create them with figures.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I take Marvel legends characters and or Marvel Legends figures. I will reconfigure it. Reconfigure them. And I, will create stories with them and just make up different characters with different, backgrounds and whatnot. I have my primary speedster. Her name is Ace, the number one fastest woman alive, because, well, I actually decided to pair. I wanted to pair them up because, sunfire is one of my favorite, heroes, who also happens to be japanese. But Ace, aka Keiko Kishi, is also japanese. and yeah, she's got the name Ace because she's number one fastest person, alive. Ace, as a play on the fact that her character is canonically arrow Ace. She is not, cool in, any of that. And actually, one of the plot points is her arch rival, oni is a, very dangerous simp, shall we say?

>> Guido: Wow, I love it. There's so many relationships and identities, that you're incorporating into your world. And it's so fun to see.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I haven't even gotten into the goof, who's my main silly character? Very inspired by, your favorites. We know my favorite heckler canonically. If anyone hasn't heard of funny man. Funnyman is a public domain character who was also the failed follow up to Superman by Jerry, Siegel and Joe Schuster.

>> Guido: Oh, and he's a golden age, like, comic character.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: He's a golden age goofy superhero, who's kind of like a clown, but a superhero. And so I decided while he's public domain, Judy is his niece. Oh, right.

>> Guido: Oh, cool.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I didn't say, her real name. The goof's real name is Judy Punch.

>> Guido: That works out well.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And, yeah, her girlfriend, is a character named glam goddess who has, light powers and also happens to be, a trans woman.

>> Guido: It's so fun. So people should absolutely find you and you should move beyond Twitter so that we can find all these storylines, because I see bits and pieces here and there, but I just thought maybe you weren't posting as frequently and now it turns out you are. You're just only doing it in one place. So thank you again for joining us, Ethan. I have been Rob, and our reading list for this episode is in the show notes. Follow us, ah, eerwatchers, and leave us.

>> Rob: A five star review wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.

>> Guido: In the meantime, keep posturing the possibilities.