Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

After seven days of silence, the buzz

is back. Welcome to Dear Watchers in

Omniversal comic book podcast, where we do

a deep dive into the multiverse.

We are traveling with you through the stories, the worlds,

the movies that make up an omniverse of, uh, fictional

realities we all love.

And your watchers on this journey

are.

You couldn't I know you can't recognize me because I'm wearing

someone else's face, so let me take that off.

It's me, Rob. And

now, before we begin, their last.

Name, at least in something we saw today, their last name

is Slaughter. So you could be Rob Slaughter.

That sounds well, they have different names in

many different iterations.

Well, before we get to our trip down

south via New, uh, Jersey

Keto, what's new with us in our section of the

multiverse?

Well, this is my Halloween voice. I put on a

Halloween voice just for our

know. I know it's a great voice box

changer I got. In actuality, I'm sick. So

everyone enjoy this unique voice that I have happening

today. And I might be sick because of

our New York Comic Con extensive four

day, exhausting, though amazing experience.

Who knows, maybe that wore me down so much that I

am now just still recovering from it. But

you can pretend like you're there with us if you listen

to our last episode, which has our

New York Comic Con coverage with special guest Elliot.

So please go back and listen to that episode because it's

always the highlight of my year. In spite of this year, it

following with me being sick and so much.

On our social media channels as well. You

can see photos of us with creators and some

of the panels we went to. So much.

I put stuff on YouTube, too, which we barely use our

YouTube, although every episode is on there. But I

put some videos from it. And then

two quick notes that are really shout outs to some

of our incredible friends and family,

our spectales friends Jake and

Jesus who are together. Please follow

their social media at Fan Expo Dallas. It's been so great

to see their updates, but right before they left for Dallas,

they sent us a special care package with great

stickers of their mascot, JJ. The tater tot, including

one that's me. And it's so neat

to have this. It's like an amalgamini

crossover mashup of spectales Tater

Tot and Deer Watchers because it's me. And

I've got a new watu, pop. And of course, Elliot drew

it, so that is really fun. We posted pictures of

it, and now we have a whole stack of them to give away. Mhm,

whatever. The next thing we go to is, which I don't know what that'll

be.

I guess the, uh, Rob Tater Tot got lost

in the lunchroom. Hmm,

I don't know. Must have been

Taco Tuesday that day when Elliot was working

on them.

Maybe one of us is just more

visual. I don't know. There's more

things you can draw with me. But that's not true, actually,

because you've got the hair, you've got things.

So maybe next year, Jake and

Jesus. Next year, when you want to thank us, we

need a Rob Tot. And,

uh, the last shout out before we get into

today's Halloween horror themed

episode is to our local comic

store, Earthworld. I had my first book

signing there.

I know. Oh, my gosh.

Totally, uh, unexpected, but fun.

They've been great supporters of the Spidey

Signal with the web of technology book that I wrote

that I've talked about on here. It's a really cool little

replica of the Spidey Signal. And

it is in this little box.

And it comes with a book that I wrote all about Spider Man's technology and

gadgets. And it's at all bookstores. It's online, it's

really everywhere. And they were kind enough

to order so many of them and had them out.

And when we were in this weekend, they

asked us if I would sign some. They posted

a great picture of that. And there's a few signs

silver sharpie and everything. Uh, I know

it's going to go down in history because, uh, it's not

the last book signing, but it is the first.

And speaking of New York Comic Con, those spidey

books sold out at New York Comic Con. We went

there on Friday. There was a bunch of them.

And by Sunday afternoon, not even the end of the day,

Sunday, they were all gone.

And it has nothing to do with Spider Man. It's all

me.

It's all you. They want that book. Yeah.

Uh, well, thank you for those

updates. And if you are joining us for the first time, we

have three parts of our journey through the multiverse today

origins of the story, exploring multiversity, and

pondering possibilities. So thank you for joining

us on today's horrifying trip.

And remember, you can leave us a five star review

wherever you're listening or even someplace you're not listening

and find us on all social media at dear watchers.

And with that Dear Watchers, grab your

sharp implements and welcome to episode 118.

And let's check out what's

happening in the Omniverse with our travel to

today's alternate universe.

I guess I could have gotten a chainsaw. Soundsaw. There's a lot

of since today. There's a lot of sound. A, um,

machete sound.

No, that's true. I'll just make it.

Yeah. And today we head from my

voice.

I can try a chainsaw one.

Do I sound like a chainsaw?

Terrifying. Today we head from Crystal

Lake to the dark heart of Texas to find out the answer

to the question, what if Jason Voorhees from

Friday the 13th was adopted by

Leatherface and the Cannibals from The Texas

Chainsaw Massacre?

Isn't Crystal Lake the camp, or is it also the

town?

Well, it's the name of the lake and it's the

camp, but I don't know if it's the name of the town? I don't know if the

town is ever named.

Uh, all right. Well, this is a world

of an unknown world that appears in

tops comics. More on that later

in 1990, 519, 96. As far

as we know, these three issues are the only

appearance of this rather unique

crossover world. The world has no

designation, is not seen again. We're going to

call it earth Traumatized Child monster

Villains. And it will become clear why when

we talk about it.

And these are two of the most iconic

horror franchises of all time the Texas

Chainsaw Massacre and Friday

the 13th. And of course, it would take hours

for us to go through the full

backstory of these, uh, two franchises

way too long. But we're going to

encapsulate them on.

Film and comics and in comics because

they both have histories in both, needless.

To say, uh, really mirror each other as

well, too.

So I guess chronologically let's go.

Yes. So we're going to start with The Texas Chainsaw

Massacre on Film. The first

film came out in 1974. It was made for

only $140,000, but it grossed

over 30 million in the US. With half of that

coming from rentals. It was immediately

controversial and banned in several countries. And

in fact, Guido, did you know this? It was actually banned in the

UK. Until 1999.

Was it a video nasty?

Was it it was a video nasty.

Was it technically a video nasty?

And I think for one of the anniversaries, they finally

unbanned it and gave it an actual rating.

I mean, I'm sure people watching it, um, yes, of

course, you could find it's not like they were rating

people's homes copies of the film.

No. But yes, it was banned there. But it

was also pretty critically acclaimed. So the horror host

and critic Joe Bob Briggs, he has called it the greatest

horror film of all time. But it did

take, strangely, 14 years for the first sequel,

which was also directed by the director of the first film,

Toby Hooper. And that second film is a

canon film's, Fever Dream of

a Movie. But altogether, it has

spawned eight film sequels or prequels,

including movies starring Vigo Mortensen, Matthew

McConaughey, Renee Zellweger and Jessica

Beal.

Are you including in that eight, like reboots or

no, that's just oh, no.

That'S reboots and everything. Yeah. And that's

in part because it has an incredibly

convoluted timeline, because

they made the reboot of the platinum dunes

one in the 2000s, but then they also made a sequel

to that. But it's also a direct sequel to the

original movie. So it's very confusing.

And including the 2022 movie that was released on

Netflix, that's also billed as a sequel,

direct sequel to the first film. So it's very

confusing, very convoluted.

But it's also popped up in lots of other media

as well. There are two video games, including one

that just came out, lots of merchandise and

even a barbecue restaurant on the site of the

gas station from the first film.

Gross.

Whoever's eating there, you're gross. But that's

not all the other media that it has been

in, because of course, it has been in comics,

though not that much. I'm intrigued.

I'm always fascinated, as I know our, uh,

friend Mike from Tencent Takes is in licensed comics

because they always have such strange histories. And I'm going to guess

this is the same with this, because

Texas Chainsaw Massacre starts in comics in

1991. So pretty late, although sort of the moment of

the boom of comics. North Star Comics

publishes a series titled Just

Leatherface. So that makes me think there is something with the

rights there because will I not call it Texas Chainsaw

Massacre?

I think that was tying into the third film, which

was called Leatherface Texas Chainsaw Massacre

Three. I think there must have been some weirdness with people knew

Leatherface and not Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

But I wonder because right now we know that the rights to

Ghostface are distinct true to the rights from

Scream. And so there's all this Ghostface merch that just

calls him Ghostface and says nothing about Scream. So I do

wonder if it's something similar. So that

is other than the comic crossover. We

read that is the only comic outing for another

14 years when Avatar publishes in

2005, starts doing some Texas Chainsaw

Massacre little miniseries, one Shots. But

Avatar quickly loses the rights to Wildstorm in

2006. Wildstorm in 2007

publishes their first Chainsaw comics again, special

one Shots and miniseries. And the final

Chainsaw comics to date that we know

about are 2008, when Wild

Storm has a three issue miniseries, the Texas

Chainsaw Massacre Raising Cane. So

real gap in the last 15

years for Texas Chainsaw Massacre

comics.

Yeah. And of course, the comic we're going to discuss today comes in between

there, but is also not really a Texas Chainsaw Massacre

comic. There's lots and lots of weirdness in

there. And our other big

franchise is Friday the

13th. So let's talk a little bit of,

uh, its history on film. It

was inspired, of course, by the

movie Halloween. John Carpenter's Halloween,

and producer director Sean S. Cunningham was like, well,

they just made a movie based around a title of a

spooky holiday. There's never been a Friday the 13th

movie. So he literally put out ads in the paper saying

Friday the 13th is coming and had no idea what the

movie was going to be. I wonder the

movie around that I.

Really want to know. I guess we could just ask our

parents. But I'd want to ask someone like, I don't know

who was maybe slightly younger in the early

70s before this movie. I'm just curious how big a

thing was Friday the 13th before the movie

Friday the 13th came out? Obviously, it was a thing.

I know. But I'm just curious when a

friday the 13th happened? Were people like OOH

or especially when it happened in October as it did this year,

were people really into it or did the movie

help boost that? I'm curious.

Yeah, there was an unrelated Friday the 13th movie that was

going to come out at the same time that eventually changed its

title. So it must have been out there in the

Zeitgeist enough of a thing. Uh, yeah, exactly.

The 1980 original film had a budget of around

$500,000, but it grossed

over 60 million and really kicked on its

original box office. I'm not

100% sure. It might have been also through rentals

and everything. So maybe not just original.

Yeah, uh, it was a huge hit. And that's why

well, you just mentioned Friday the 13th as a holiday

and that's why then it was then the

craze of holidays. There's an April

Fool's Day and Valentine's Day all

had slasher movies and then of course the teens

in everything, prom night, all that kind of stuff.

It actually had eleven follow ups. That includes

Jason fighting a telekinetic psychic, him

on a boat slash in New York City in outer

space and battling Freddy Krueger.

And there are two video

games, uh,

and he's second probably only to Freddie in terms of

overall merchandise. There's so much merchandise out there.

There's a museum in New Jersey.

We've seen it closed. We've seen it closed.

Not there in person. There's an in name only

TV series from the there is

soon to be a new prequel series on

Peacock.

Maybe. Who knows?

Maybe right. We'll see.

But it's supposedly in development. And of

course other media that Friday 13th has crossed into is

comics and a lot more than Texas Chainsaw Massacre M, though

still not a ton. The first comic was a three

issue adaptation of Jason Goes to Hell by Andy

Mangles for Tops Comics in 1993. The

publisher we'll be talking about today. So right after

that a few years comes the series we're discussing.

And then there is a Bit of a Gap. Again, it's

2005 that the rights end up at

Avatar. So Avatar is a company

that was very interested in horror movie tie ins

in the 2000s. There were again

miniseries and one shot specials.

Most of them actually, in this case were written by Brian

Polito, creator of Lady Death and Evil Ernie.

But similar to Chainsaw in 2006, Wild

Storm acquires the rights. They do start their own series

written by Jimmy Palmiati. They continue with a few

other miniseries. They have Jason crossover with Freddie

and Ash from Evil Dead, something we will definitely

be covering. And just got a few more issues of at New York

Comic Con and the final Friday the 13th

comic. Again, a Bit of a gap is a

2009 six issue sequel to Friday

versus Jason versus Ash called The Nightmare Warriors. So we are still

coming on 15 years without Friday the 13th

comics either yeah.

And it's funny that Tops then Avatar

and then Wildstorm, it's the same thing. And in

fact, Wildstorm acquired the

Texas Chainsaw and the Friday the 13th

licenses in the same year. And

Avatar, I think, acquired them in the same year from Top. So there

was a lot going on around. That.

Quite a package deal. But speaking on this

package deal, you have a deep

background to both. One of these is your favorite.

So tell our listeners your background with these and

which one is your favorite.

Sure. So, Texas Chainsaw Massacre

I probably saw for the first time in high school,

and with my friend Anders, we would try to watch all these

classic horror movies. So I saw that then. It was

probably years before I saw any of the

sequels. And there's still some from the

2000s that I've never seen. I

really like it a lot. I think it's an excellent film, which

we'll get into exactly.

But my much deeper background is

with Friday the 13th. I couldn't tell you the first time

or which movie I even saw first, but it was probably

on something like Cinemax or Showtime.

I was just flipping around and suddenly you saw Jason. And

it was so scary. I remember having to click

away because I was, uh, scared or ready with the

remote in my hand, which is funny because when you watch the movies

today, they're not really scary at all. No, but that

was like the first time I saw that. Then again, with my friend Anders,

we would watch all the first run films. So I

watched the original Friday the 13th then,

but really it's become my favorite go

to series. I think Halloween, especially the first

movie, is much better than any Friday the 13th movie.

Same thing with Texas Chainsaw Massacre. But the Friday

the 13th series to me is my

comfort. Horror watching.

And I started playing the video game.

You didn't keep playing because you're not a big video game player.

But yeah, you were just about to point to all the signed things

you have hanging around you.

Signed, record, met, lots of the cast

members, the composer, I have him sign something.

And then my big thing is I have all but I think one of the

Jason's signatures on a Camp Crystal

Lake sign.

Yeah, well, and a special connection, too, since

Camp Crystal Lake is filmed in New Jersey and maybe takes place

there. And obviously oh, of course, we both are from New Jersey,

so I'm sure that helped. Knowing you when you were young, I'm sure

you felt like, oh, it's just down the road.

Growing up, I had lots of kids. I never really went to

summer camp, but I have lots of kids that went to Camp Nobi Bosco in

New Jersey where they shot the first movie. And then a few years ago,

you and I went to Blairstown in New Jersey

where they shot lots of the town

footage and where the museum, which was closed at the

time is.

And Spirit Halloween sponsored the diner this

year. In this massive, massive

experience that you could do, it's become

quite a huge destination.

Yeah, I love the town, has embraced it. But what about

you, Guido? What's your backgrounds with these two

franchises?

Well, Friday the 13th,

I think everyone's more familiar with

Jason. I feel like, for whatever reason,

has become more of a pop culture icon. So

mhm, growing up, one of my older

siblings liked horror

movies a little, but she was more into Nightmare on Elm

Street. And I remember seeing those. I don't know if I saw Friday

the 13th then starting in college

and slightly after, it'd be on TV or

sometimes a screening at a theater and I would go and see

it. I don't love it. I don't dislike

it. It's fine. Uh, it's

whatever. And so I probably have only

seen the first three or

four in Adult Memory and

especially two with you because we watched the great

documentary about just how queer it is and the

history of it.

That's Nightmare on Elm Street.

On Elm Street.

You're getting your 80s franchises mixed up.

They're very similar in tone. Um,

so then I don't even know how many Friday the

13th I've seen because I was thinking about

Freddie. So anyway, very

minimal. But I get it. I understand it. Texas

Chainsaw Massacre. I resisted

my whole life. I

didn't think I'd like, I never saw it

until last night for this episode

when you made me watch one and two.

And I hate them.

I know Leatherface,

but I didn't even know I feel like it was only a few years

ago that I even knew that some people think

leatherface is like a drag queen or possibly trans

like that. There's gender stuff. I really knew

nothing. Because, again, I think that's,

uh, less in the pop culture zeitgeist than Jason

is. So just saw it for the first time

and have never read any of their comics ever

before. And you, on the other hand, have read

some of all of their comics. We don't have every issue

because some of them are actually quite costly.

But, uh, you have read at least a few of every

comic iteration of these mhm two.

Well, let's oil up the old

chainsaw and carve our way

into origins of the story.

Right now on this very show, you're going to

get the answer to all your questions.

Our amazing story begins a few

years ago.

So first up is the film

of, uh, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Chainsaw. Two words in the original title,

strangely.

I wonder if it is two words. I don't know.

I don't know. The Netflix one, they made it one. I think

usually it's one word, but the original, it's two words.

That is from October 1974 from

Vortex Inc. And Brianston distribution

company.

It's. Directed and produced by Toby Hooper written by Toby

Hooper and Kim Henkel starring Marilyn Burns and Gunnar

Hansen. Real quick summary. It's rural Texas.

The Sawyer family, I guess, in this,

kill unsuspecting folks to turn them into

barbecue. There's the

leader, the cook, the younger brother,

the hitchhiker, the near dead, or

well, dead, who knows? Grandpa. And then of

course, the most famous member of the clan leatherface,

maybe someone calls him Bubba. Uh, seemingly

deformed, mostly mute, who uses a

chainsaw and wears masks from the skin of his

victims and does uh, sometimes

do that in drag.

So you had never seen these movies

and you gave us a preview already.

Of what of my opinion you think.

But what do you think of having never

seen this classic horror movie?

Well, what I will say about the first one so I don't

hate the first one, I should say I

don't like it. It's not a movie for me.

It is what I was afraid it was, which is

ultimately an exploitation movie. It is

fascinating. And you have pointed out to me over the

years we watched lots of

documentaries about horror movies and this is always in them.

So for example, I feel like the more famous

moment is when the person is getting

hung on the meat hooks. You don't see it. And

so it is kind of cool.

Uh, he does create

horror and really quite visceral horror

without the gore that would become a part of

horror movies. And so it was kind of cool to

see those sort of filmmaking techniques.

But why I think it's ultimately an exploitation movie

is first of all, there's barely any plot. The movie

has maybe a total of like four scenes.

They just all play out for like 25 minutes

each. And

it's also then that

for me, there was no character I'm interested in,

no character I'm attached to, no protagonist, no

antagonist. There's really nothing going on in it. And so

it's just kind of torture porn. It's just

uh maybe it's soft core porn in this case, since you're not seeing

a lot of the gore.

What I will say though, last point I'll make,

having just seen it for the first time is the amount of

tropes in horror that come out of

this movie was pretty remarkable to me. To

see so many things, from the teenagers in

the van, to

some of the way it's shot, to

the way jump scares and devices

work and just

so much going on in it, that I was like,

wow, this is really the prototypical

horror movie. M. So I see why it's

important. But it was not a movie for me.

Yeah, uh, on that point, when they

get to the cemetery earlier in the movie, when the kids

get there and there's like a drunk guy rolling around

and talking about stuff that's so much like the Harbinger

character that uh, the crazy Ralph character is

like someone ranting yeah. Ranting about something.

And so much of the iconography here reminded me

a lot of X, the Thai West movie that came

out last, for sure. Lot taken

from that. And yeah, what's interesting is you call it's

100% an exploitation movie, but one thing it

doesn't exploit is the sex

angle.

No. And I was glad. And when we

get well, we can mention too in a moment, it's very

different, but I was very glad in this movie. I

don't know if it was an

attempt I mean, was this rated

NC 17? Well, that didn't exist. But was this

unrated when it was released?

I'm not 100% sure if it was.

R or unrated, but there's

not even breasts in this.

No. Which is surprising.

A key trope of every horror movie. And

yet there's just not there's never

any hint that there's anything rapey

happening in this. And I really

appreciate that.

No, they want to eat her, but they don't want to do

anything.

They want to eat everyone.

Want uh to eat everyone. They're

mutual. People who want to eat everybody.

Yes.

Even like the violence is not more visceral toward

the women, which is happens a lot in a lot

of misogynistic horror. But in this case, even though there

is like hanging her on meat hooks, there's

the rather more probably the goriest part

is when he smashes in the first man's head.

Yeah.

That's the only time you really see a lot of blood in this.

Uh, there's one more male victim than female

victim, which is fairly ah, unusual

as well. And yet, to your point, even though we

think of it as The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, when one character,

a very particularly annoying character in a

wheelchair, when he gets

chainsawed, you don't actually see anything,

you only see leatherface. I was surprised

you see the body of the person being chainsawed, but you don't

see where it's penetrating. And um, some of

that might have been also for budgetary reasons.

I was thinking that they avoided a lot of the

effects costs or the I mean, they would have

been new effects even. Which is again,

cool to think of. Obviously a few other horror movies

had happened and Night of Living Dead had happened, but I

imagine a lot of the stuff they were doing had never been

seen. You probably hadn't seen bodies being split in half.

No.

And before we talk about too briefly,

the things that I wanted to point out too, was

I've seen a few people mention this in more

recent times, but it really actually is a

folk horror movie in so many ways. And

we think of folk horror like The Wicker Man being in

London or being in England and rural

England and things like that. But here there's so many of those

folk horror tropes where

they're building these weird artifacts in

the cemetery and as soon as they get to the house, there's weird

stuff hanging around The Hitchhiker

smears like a symbol onto the

van. Yeah, old versus new, which

is a huge part of the conversation about the way they used to

kill cattle versus the new technology way.

And the main character are quote unquote,

heroes. They're not really heroes, but the people we're following,

we know they come from money because their family sold the

cattle there. This was this house that they own that

has kind of been left to seed. So there's this

capitalism elements that are happening there too.

Yeah, I agree. It's definitely folk

horror, without a doubt. Which is cool.

I think one of the things that affected

my enjoyment of it, not that I'll ever

enjoy it more, I don't think, but is

having heard so much about how this movie was

really about America in

the don't know that

it is, I can see why people

are taking that in. And there's a little bit

about gas in there, perhaps. And like you're saying,

modernism and this shift and obviously

there's stuff about rural culture here,

but I didn't feel like it had a lot to

say about any of those things. If anything, I'd

worry that it created the

and I know that Joe Bob, we saw him give a whole three

hour lecture on this, but it feels like it might have

created the Hillbilly Horror trope a

bit because it is like this rural, lower

class farm falling apart. So

I obviously could only think

of the movie I love, which is Wrong Turn.

And this is like the Wrong Turn is basically a remake

of this movie. But, um, same deal.

Like you get these people who because

you can't tell if they're supposed to

be and in the one brother

who you meet earliest in the movie, who's later called The

Hitchhiker, you can't tell if he's supposed to be

developmentally disabled or what's going on with

him. And I think if he

is, it's an offensive portrayal, of course.

But the fact that I can't even tell says to me, like, I don't

know what's going on here. So I think, uh, it's creating

a lot of these tropes, which I had to keep reminding myself, okay,

this is the originator of these things. They're doing something

different, they're trying something. Uh,

so they're not necessarily

setting out to

keep telling the same story of like, poor

people are both incestuous

and going to kill you.

Yeah, I think it's in there a little bit. But I agree with

you that I don't think it's really trying to say a lot about

America. And Toby Hooper is often called

it a comedy or a black comedy. I

always take question with that. There's a couple of funny lines it.

Is not fun at. No, no, that is one thing. And

it's funny because you are always someone who

wants something to feel fun. Which doesn't have to

mean it feels light and doesn't have to mean it has jokes.

But you struggle with really

serious tone things and things that don't

have fun. This has no yeah, no,

there's maybe.

One or two lines. And I think a big thing is I

think the cinematography is great, very spooky. And then

the biggest thing that really caught me this time, because I was sitting right next

to the speaker, is this score, which Toby Hoper co

composed. It's all dissonant and it was not done with

synthesizers because I don't think they had them. I think a lot of it was

tape effects on toy instruments

and using things slowed down. So the whole thing is

very distorted and very

creepy, I think, with and.

That creates a lot of suspense.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. So much M, which is one of.

The other things where I kept reminding myself, like, wow, this is

I mean, psycho used score to create suspense,

but this sound design, I think, creates like

the terror that we get in all slasher

movies after this.

Totally. Well, and speaking of after this so we won't

touch on it too we won't talk about it for too long.

Let's not talk about it.

14 years later, they made a sequel

with Toby Hooper again, and our friend

Randolatowitz, we were talking to him at

New York Comic Con and he described the one in two

of Texas Chainsaw Massacre as Gremlins and Gremlins Two,

which I think is great because Gremlins is a

fairly, mostly a fairly serious

movie. And then Gremlins two is just

crazy. And I think Texas Chainsaw

Massacre Two is just crazy. It just has some

of the fundamental DNA of the first one, but is a

very different movie.

It doesn't sound like you like it.

I'll say if not for the sex

parts of it, I actually probably

would have enjoyed it because it is wacky and

especially like when you get toward the end, the set

design is like.

Uh, some it's very Tim Burden, Mad.

Max, Fury Road, Midman Max,

totally combined with something

cartoonish and some children's show. It's

so weird and over the top.

They're living in like a Batman 66

hideout because it's uh, like an abandoned mutem

park there.

Yeah. And it's never explained,

which is fine. But I think this one at this

point, you get more of the gore

and violence that makes sense at the.

Time, Zavini stepped in and did all that

here.

But you definitely get more

stuff with women that I do not like. With the

longest scene being, uh, the

way leatherface threatens the

main character and the

position of the chainsaw. And it's

just gross. It's just

gross. It's a threatening

rape scene with a chainsaw, essentially

for the entire duration. And I really did not enjoy

watching it. And then even later, the

first way I think it's the brother is killed.

He's stabbed through his anus.

So again, there's penetration on the

mind. There's a lot of sexual undertones

in this movie.

He actually says it's a lot of horror, but saved me a

trip, got my hemorrhoids, saved me a trip to the

hospital.

Is that really a line?

The cook says that. Yeah, but there's interestingly

still no nudity in it, which is and in

fact, there's really only a few victims

in the whole movie. The first victims are these

assholes who are driving some convertible and we kind of want them

to get killed.

It is sort of funny to watch that play out because it's almost

like part of a John Hughes movie found

its way into Texas Chainsaw or something.

And I think my favorite part of this movie is Bill

Mosley, who is a character not from the first movie. He's

called Chop Top. And he is just cuckoo

bananas throughout the whole movie, giving,

uh, playing it at an eleven since the very first time

we see him in a sunny Bono wig. And I just think

he's so enjoyable in this movie.

But then he has like, uh,

uh, i, uh, don't know, who cares? But he's like a

cyborg. I don't understand. It really

is so weird.

It was a canon movie. And there was also, I think,

um, a lot of cocaine being done that's

supposedly around. Well,

let's get to, um, our next

franchise, which is Friday

the 13th. The first film came

out in May 1980 from Georgetown

Productions and Paramount Pictures.

And it's directed and produced by Sean S. Cunningham, written by

Victor Miller, starring Adrian King and Betsy Palmer.

So in this first installment,

we flashback to the 1950s. We see

a deformed boy named Jason accidentally

drown in Crystal Lake, and his mother ends up coming

back to take revenge after she is

killed. She is the killer of the first movie. I feel like that's a very

common horror trivia question that people get asked.

Everyone knows.

Is it in Scream or in Scary Movie?

No, it's in Drew Barrymore.

She gets it wrong.

Okay?

That's why, um, so he is

eventually killed in part four, he returns as a zombie in

part six. In part five, it turns out it's an imposter.

So they try to keep a prime cannon, and

he is often defeated by being driven back into

the lake, but is unexplained, at

least through the majority of the films, indestructible.

Um, and, uh,

invulnerable or immortal or

something.

They keep a few characters do cross over to

multiple films. So they did actually much more

than Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Tried to keep some kind of

prime canon in the way that Halloween and to a lesser

extent, Nightmare on Elm Street was doing. But Guido, I

mean, you're less familiar with this series than I am. So

what is your take, especially on the first Friday the

13th?

Well, I'd have to remember it, but I remember we

saw it for your birthday a few years ago.

Uh, it's

fine. It's fun. It's a typical slasher.

There's something I don't know what the difference in

Texas Chainsaw, ah, is

that stops it from being quote unquote fun.

Because it's not like this movie. I mean,

maybe there's more humor in the

teenagers in this movie than there are in the

teenagers in Texas Chainsaw. But

maybe it's also in the fact that

the killing feels so supernatural, even though that's

not an element of the first movie. I think

Gunnar Hansen, I can sort of believe he's smashing

those people's heads in in Texas Chainsaw Massacre and

in you're, everything is, um, a little more

cartoonish. The violence is all a little more cartoonish.

And so I appreciate that. And

that's all I can really say about it because I was thinking of

Nightmare on Elm Street.

Well, I love the first movie. My favorite of

the Friday the 13th movies are four, six, and

one. And one feels very

different, of course, not only because we don't see Jason, but it's

always being then shot from the perspective of the

killer. So we'll just see like the gloved hand. It's got a very

jallo kind of element to it. Uh, that black kind

of Italian black Christmas. Exactly. That kind of

horror where it's a who done it in that

it's not really a whodunit like scream is because it

turns out that it's a character we've never met before with the

killer, but it has that kind of element. And then the

music. Harry ram Ferdini's score.

Very classic, very Bernard Herman

psycho, full on strings.

Very different than the a tonal kind

of music that Toby Hooper was doing. And the

movie feels like a proper movie. Unlike, um,

Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which really does feel like something

that a bunch of kids took.

Student film.

A student film that was well shot but had

no money. This does feel like a proper movie with

locations and actual actors.

Why do you love this series?

Because I think the

deaths are super fun. And because you don't have

to get like the Halloween movies get very

convoluted, especially around four, five and six.

This one, they just always stay that surface

level. And the stuff with the kids, it's always fun.

It always reflecting the time a little bit. Like in this first

movie, they're literally sitting around strumming the

acoustic guitar, smoking a joint. Then later

on the boat, in part, uh, Jason

Takes Manhattan, they're playing rock and roll,

so you always have those fun sequences. But I think the deaths

are just really fun and

enjoyable. It's the kind of franchise I feel like you could

put on at 11:00 at night after having a couple of

beers, or you could put it on during the

day and enjoy it. Like you would not want to

watch Texas Chainsaw Massacre at one in the

afternoon, I don't think. But I could totally do Friday the

13th at one in the afternoon.

Yeah, I totally agree with that assessment, for sure.

I think in that way, while they're very different

movies, it has what some

of the Scream movies have for me, too,

where they just have

that. Those are much better made movies than Friday the 13th.

But that same thing of just there's enough

humor. As you kind of mentioned before, along with the

deaths, it just makes it a pretty solid

film.

Yeah. And both definitely slashers. Whether

it's with chainsaw, uh, or with a machete, they are both

exactly slashers.

Well, let's extinguish the fire, grab

a doobie, go down to the lake for a

midnight skinny dip. Into

exploring multiversity.

I am your guide through these vast new

realities. Follow

me and ponder the

question,

what if?

And today we are asking the question, what if Jason Voorhees

from Friday the 13th was adopted by Leatherface and the

Cannibals from The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

And this is from Jason versus

Leatherface, which came out October

1995 to January 1996

on Tops Comics.

And there are issues one through

three.

And so all three are written by

Nancy Collins from a plot by Collins and

David Einhoff. Art is by Jeff Butler, inks by

Steve Montano. Colors and editor Renee

Winterstatter, who we just saw at New York Comic Con sitting with

Michael Golden. Renee was, of course, Mark Gruinwald's assistant.

Separations are by electric Crayon covers are

by Simon Bisley. So, creator of Lobo

and big. Uh, artist known for judge Dredd.

The letterer is uncredited, probably one of

those other people. And real quick, so

Nancy Collins is actually an American Horror

fiction writer. So she's written a series of

vampire novels from the 80s. So

prior to this so she was probably

hired as a known name at that

time. She's done a few comics this a Predator

comic and part of Swamp Thing.

So she was a

logical hire, I'd say, for a horror

crossover like this.

Mhm. And these comics are very

hard to find. And not online,

I don't think. So I'm going to give a good size

summary here for folks who can't actually read the

comic and that's after Crystal Lake is polluted

by industrialists boo capitalism,

the waste is dug up and shipped out. But

they also in that waste capture Jason Voorhees,

who has been living under the lake. Jason arrives in

Texas, where he meets up with Leatherface, the Hitchhiker, and

the cook of the disturbed Sawyer family from the

first chainsaw movie. The three killer cannibals

recognize Jason as one of their own, and they bond over

their love of killing. Jason also uh.

Uh, go ahead.

Jason also sees a kindred

soul in Leatherface

and sees that Leatherface's abuse at the hands

of the hitchhiker reminds Jason of his own

beatings by his father. Eventually Jason

earth traumatized child monster.

Exactly. And eventually Jason can't take

it anymore and lashes out at the Hitchhiker. But the other

Sawyers come to his protection and they defeat

Jason. But rather than eat him, they decide to throw him

into the water. The water revives Jason, who

decides to head home to Crystal Lake, hopefully killing the

evil industrial.

Maybe that's the sequel series that was being set up

there. Uh, so this is your

first time reading this, right? Even though we've owned it for a.

Few no, I've read this before, but not in

many years now. And it was interesting. I was

reading in the third issue, Nancy

Collins has a letter and she was approached by Jim

Salakrup, who we also just saw at New York Comic.

Con and got a drawing he did of Thanos

Copter.

And she was

approached hey, do this mashup of Friday the 13th of

Jason and Leatherface. And she was like, well, these are two characters that

don't speak. How am I going to do that? And her

thinking was, I need to make sure I'm

incorporating the whole

Cannibal clan. That's how I'm really going

to tell this story. And for me,

that's what really makes a Texas Chainsaw Massacre

movie is that whole kind of idea of family.

Jason's kind of our protagonist in this, but it's

really more of a but

he's our protagonist, but in a chainsaw, uh, world

kind does.

Yeah, it is, right? The

whole comic is a Texas Chainsaw

Massacre comic. And they just plop Jason in it to

the point where even as you said, he

is on a train from the very beginning and leaves

camp Crystal Lake. And so the whole thing is

in Texas. Uh uh. He really never

talks because I love they ask him his name and he writes it

on the wall in blood. Is that like he never

talks.

There's one movie when he says something when he's

been mutated back into a child for a little bit.

That's about it. But no, he never talks. And Leatherface always just

makes like those weird little noises in the

movie. So, yeah, they're two nonverbal characters.

So did you enjoy

this?

I think Nancy Collins did a great job

of capturing the world of these two

characters. And I also really love that

she did this backstory for them. So, yeah,

I think this is actually a lot

of fun.

What did you think?

Yeah, I agree. I think it

fulfilled the mission. So I, uh,

wouldn't have read this otherwise. And

that's fine. But she

gives it a little bit of an emotional core. I mean, it's

not too deep or that interesting. But

I think the stuff I almost think it's actually a little

camp, which is good. In know,

Jason finds, uh, Leatherface at one point,

like sobbing on his bed. And that's when they

really bond and decide they're going to take care of each

other. And then I love the and spoiler if

someone's going to go read this. But I love that in the

end, when Leatherface

attacks Jason to protect the family that now

Jason is fighting with, jason

realizes it was a mistake for

him to care and defend someone. And he even

says in the narration box or the omnipotent narrator

I can't remember says like jason

finally made the decision to defend someone else

and it was the wrong decision. So it has

a little bit of an arc here that it's almost like Jason

decides, okay, I'll have a

moral compass for this person.

But again, it's campy enough that it's never

sappy. So I think that was fun and

silly.

Yeah. And I think the

art is part of the thing that makes it

campy, too. I love actually. Jeff

Butler's. Art. Along with the inks and the colors here,

there's something that just makes it pop and

gives it that kind of cartoonishness. And also some

of the grossness. Like Jason, who's in full on

zombie mode at this point, you just see how

his brains are oozing out of his head.

And when there is gore, I think it's really

well done. There's a really cool, big splash

page in issue number three. That love.

Oh, I thought you were going to say something. So

the I'll get to what I thought were gonna say, but the artist,

Jeff Butler, he's still doing books. And

he started,

uh, with, uh, independent comics mostly, but he's

also done a lot of video game art. So he's done

stuff for the Dungeons and Dragons or game art, I

should say. He's done Dungeons and Dragons and a lot of fantasy

art and other role playing games. But then he

did do a lot of tie in comics because he did Hercules

and Xena and Jurassic Park. This

he did Godzilla versus Charles Barkley, which might be

something we one day have to cover.

And then he's still doing some comics.

Again, generally independent stuff, or,

uh, uh, little one shot

things that he does. So I like the art. What

I thought you were going to say is fun because it

tells you that the series is going to be campy is in the

opening sequences, when you get just how brutal

Jason is and you have him start killing people

and kills, um, the person who's trying to be

helpful cuts his hand off. He says, Why are you doing this? I was trying to

help you. Cuts his head off. And then he

just cuts the dog in half. Dog

that's, uh, there on the train with him, he just cuts in half.

So that was also a funny art moment

because it's literally like almost like a wiener dog and

his body is just sliced in half.

Yeah, but even that like what you just mentioned.

Yeah. So there is a homeless person on the

train and he tries to befriend Jason,

almost like a Frankenstein monster with the blind man

kind of scenario. But Jason just kills him right away.

And it kind of ties into what you were just saying with the narration

at the end of the book, too, where

Jason took this

moment like, oh, uh, wait, I am going

to have a friend in leatherface while this homeless person

tried to befriend him. And he said, no, I'm not going to have you as

my friend. And then once he realizes he's

then attacked by the Sawyers. Yeah. There is this

moment of like, oh, no, I can't anybody?

Yes. The family has had many different names. They're like the

Sawyers in the movies. Then they're the Hewitts in

the later movies. They're the Slaughters in this movie. I don't

think they're ever the Slaughters in any of the movies, though I

could be wrong.

Well, and I like that, uh, mother is

named Doris instead of Pamela,

which is very weird.

I don't know if Nancy

didn't have access to the movies or watched them. Yeah.

Because Jason's mother has a different

name. Crystal Lake is in Vermont, where

it's usually considered in New Jersey. So I

don't know if those were just changes.

That one I figured could have easily been like an art error

because it was only in a billboard at the end that

you see Crystal Lake, Vermont. But

the Doris is strange, and I have no idea

what the deal with that is.

And what did you think of giving

Jason this background? Because Jason doesn't usually

have much of a background. We know he

didn't, uh, look like other kids and was picked on that we

know in the movies. But that's kind of

so but here he had an abusive father and that

the mother killed the father. That's not stuff that

we really get from the movies. So what did you think of

having that here, giving him a bit more?

It matches so well to who the character is that I had to

ask you if it was in a movie because it just

seems everything we know about Pamela and Jason,

it would make sense that that was true.

So I think that's fine. And

it's brief. It's just these brief flashback

panels. But I

was fine with it. I'm probably the wrong person to

ask. How did you feel about it?

Uh, I agree. I think it works really well

in giving him this backstory and that the first

person his mother killed was his

father. I think that just fits

so well that he saw this violence from

an early age. And it's also interesting they don't really go into

this comic in the comic. But I'm thinking, oh,

Jason is always so attached to his mother. And the mother is

such a big character, while in especially the first two

Texas Chainsaw Massacre movies. And in the

comic, there's really an absence of women in

that family that you have near dead

grandpa as the patriarch, basically.

And in number two, you have that really

cool designed, like Morton Joe type woman

who I think he calls their aunt or something.

I think it's Grandma. I think it's supposed to be Grandpa's

now.

And what's interesting is then, um,

in this comic, there is someone who actually has a very

similar design, clearly on purpose, who is,

I think in a comic, maybe it's supposed to be one of their aunts who's

like going to eat with them.

Any other final words? Would you

want to spend more time in

this joined universe?

I wouldn't because they're not

worlds I care about. But I'd be fine

if there was more because this

was really well executed. More

importantly, would you want to spend more time

I think the story that.

They got between the two of them was

enough here. I don't think I'd want to spend more time

here. I would love to see Jason go

back and kill the evil capitalists.

It's kind of weird that it doesn't end with him actually

killing them because the story starts with

them. They've polluted Crystal Lake so much that.

They'Re going to for sure the pollution. I thought it was going

to become like a toxic crusader story for

sure. Ultimately it only matters because they

drudge him up from the bottom of the lake. But I

thought there was so much and it was actually a lot of

dialogue even. And I was like, oh, this didn't mean

anything.

They've hired like a mobster to also get rid of

all this stuff. So there's a lot of pages in

the first issue devoted to that before we even get to

Texas. And it's weird that at the end we know

Jason's going back home, but we don't see like an

epilogue where he kills these people. And I think in

general, it would be a good

Friday the 13th movie. Something centered a little bit

around environment and polluting the

lake. And I could totally see that as a

plot in something.

Uh, yeah, I agree. So maybe it

was intended to have a sequel, but

as of now, 20 years later,

25 years later, 28 years later, almost 30

years later, no sequel.

Well, we're giving grandpa the hammer and he's

going to try to continually bash us

into pondering possibilities.

So Guido, what are we talking about for our pondering

possibilities?

But we'll just ponder the possibilities not

just amongst these two franchises

and things that have come out of them recently and the possibility

of them crossing over more, but horror crossovers in

general. You mentioned Freddie versus

Jason, which was probably the

biggest. We know horror crossovers have existed

forever. We have, um, Abbot and Costello meeting

Frankenstein, all those kinds of things. But that was certainly

a huge moment in film. And then of course,

Alien versus Predator did the same thing. But

I feel like in the last 20 years, we

haven't had so much crossover. So we can

speculate a little on what we might

see. Crossover.

Yeah, it wasn't one of the most recent ones. The Grudge and the

Ring.

They crossed in Japan.

They did a ah, Grudge versus Ring, which

was really fun.

Godzilla and King Kong. That's a little outside of horror.

Horror crossover.

Yeah. Isn't King Kong public domain or no?

Uh, yeah, I think it's maybe a little

yeah. They've been trying to do it with some of those

shared universes too, that haven't happened. But

I don't think yeah, it seemed to be more of a comic

book thing, maybe just because it's easier and a lot

cheaper. We've seen with the IP. Yeah,

with the IP.

Although clearly in this era of

IP of the last 15

years, thanks largely to the MCU.

I wonder if that's why we haven't seen comics of these

characters. And I wonder if

that's why even in comics, you won't

see crossovers. Because

2030 years ago, people

didn't think it mattered. They didn't

think of Friday the 13th necessarily

as a brand in that way, or as

canon. And certainly comic books

were not seen as a place where you needed to

protect your brand or anyone cared. I mean, the comic we read

today, I was surprised, sweared in it,

which wasn't, uh, especially for Tops.

Topps was publishing Jurassic Park. They were publishing

Xena and Hercules, so they were not

anything avant garde. So

it just shows you that I think people weren't paying as close

attention today. Any deal, any

creative product, any story is going to have

a million eyes on it and probably therefore

die and never get made.

Well, I think I'm, um, not alone in being

one of the people that would love to see a lot of the

80s into 90s

characters cross over and do some

I'm even thinking something like

Jigsaw and

Ghost Face or something like that. Uh,

I think there's just a lot of possibilities. I'm sure all these

things, as you're saying, because of rights, are just not

going to happen.

Well, why do you think

horror crossovers

are a thing? I mean,

arguably I'm not an expert, though

you and I know a lot about this. Arguably, horror movies are

some of the first movies that had crossovers. If you look

at something like Abbot, uh, and Costello

Meet, like, those are some of the first

cinematic crossovers. The

universal horror movies, even though they never refer

to each other, are sort of considered a shared

like. And then of course, we've seen in comics

Ash versus Jason versus Freddy,

and this comic that we read

today, or even Marvel zombies versus

army of Darkness. Why do you think

horror characters lend themselves

to the mega crossover?

I think because they share a lot of the DNA. Kind of

going back to the start of our conversation where you were getting Friday the

13th and Nightmare on Elm Street confused, even though

they're very, very different movies.

One of the killers talks a lot. One doesn't talk at all.

But they share enough of the DNA of these

scared teenagers and these

isolated locations that I think,

oh, we can take the character from

movie A or comic A and put it into

B and we wouldn't have to change everything

else around it. Even think someone like Chucky, you

could easily put onto a summer camp,

right, and do a crossover. One of the kids brings

Chucky with them to a summer camp, and he encounters

Jason right there.

Chuck the show and Ghostface, maybe, because they're

my two favorite franchises, but I would love

that. That would just be some

meta Kooky fun.

Yes, that's true. They're both very meta.

Yeah. So I think that's why I think they have this

shared DNA that they're all able to take.

Even, like you mentioned, the Universal horror movies, they all

had that kind of gothic feel. So that's

one of the reasons why I think they were able to cross

over.

Maybe violence, too. It's the same as superheroes. You

sort of want to know who would win and totally

explains why these characters are licensed

for things like Mortal Kombat, because

it's just fun to imagine Jason

fighting Predator or

Freddy fighting in that case,

I don't know. Sub zero.

Well, that's one of the things that always I always think about

with these versus kind of setups. Because even

in the comic we just discussed, there's

very little Jason versus Leatherface.

There's maybe a, uh, two.

I actually wasn't even sure how they'd get there because

they're like allies, and they make such

reasonable allies. So it was fun to then see

how she has the threat on the family be the thing that turns

him into the guardian of the so.

And in Freddy versus Jason, the movie,

most of the movie, Freddy is controlling Jason. They only

fight much later on. And it's making me think the superhero

ones, too. Whenever there was Superman versus

Spider Man, there's very little actual

fighting that they do there's. Like, they fight for a few

pages, and then they realize, oh, they need to team up to get

the bigger threat. So, yeah, you always want to

hint at who would win. But as we've heard

from other comic readers, oh, you never want to have one

character really beat the other because you're just going

to anger the opposite fans too

much.

Yeah. And this comic series we

read, uh, follows that rule, for

sure.

My question for you would be,

other than rights, or maybe rights are just the answer,

but why do you think there hasn't been more

comics with these seminal characters?

It's interesting when you think there's been a lot more characters

with Hellraiser, a lot more comics with Hellraiser,

which is a lot less famous

franchise than Friday the 13th, but yet

we haven't had a Friday the 13th

comic in over ten years. Why do

you think that is?

Other than, I think canonicity, if

that's a word. If it's not, I'm going to make it up, and I'm going to

copyright it. I think canonicity is a big

part of it because something like

Hellraiser, the vast majority of the comics don't

have pinhead in them. They're just. Stories

set in the world. And so I

think any world where you can do

that lends itself to storytelling. I

think once you get to a prime character,

which Jason is, Halloween

is, and Nightmare on um, Elm Street

is, and Texas Chainsaw are all prime

characters, you suddenly run into a struggle of like, where

do I put this story? Am I retelling the origin?

Am I following the original and creating a recall?

Am I doing a sequel to everything that's been

published? But then are they going to treat this as canon when they make the

next installment? Like, you run into so many issues with

canon, and so I think that's probably

a huge part of mhm.

Yeah. Yeah. Fans are so

particular, even for something like Texas Chainsaw Massacre,

which has not had a really consistent canon

across its decades, I think you'd still

anger fans. Oh, which version of these characters

are you including in?

But I don't even think it's just fan culture. I imagine as

a storyteller, it is a little bit harder to

tell a story because you have to make all those decisions

and that might take away from your vision

or might make it hard for you to

implement your own vision. So I don't think it's just fan

culture. I think it's harder when you're dealing with something like that.

It's why I've talked about before with you, at least,

if not on the show. I don't know. A, uh, Scream

comic I think would work in the same way that the Scream

TV show, which I didn't watch and maybe didn't work.

But you can create that because you

can have a ghost face and remove it from the

Sydney Prescott lore and it becomes like

an anthology series. You can still

play with that. So I think

that anything that you can

remove because there's no central character in Scream. That's

ghost face. There's

multiple ghost faces. So mhm,

I think that as soon as you have one single character, you

just run into so many questions about mhm, which

version of the character, and all of that.

Maybe that's one of the reasons why Hellraiser works in that

format. Because the cenobites

exist beyond time and

place. They can pop up wherever they want,

and you could probably have multiple ones of them at the

same time. They don't exist.

That take place in the past and, um, the present and

maybe even the future. I have no idea. I don't read them. So,

yeah, I think that's one thing that's tricky

about Halloween, friday

the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, and Texas Chainsaw

is they are all bound up in a single

character. Yeah, Freddie works

because Freddie is removed from reality in the same way

the cinema are. So I think Freddie lends himself a little

bit more. I mean, you still have to grapple with, am I going to give

Freddy some emotional origin story or

not? What are the limits of his powers, you

have to grapple with some questions. But because he

has powers and can exist in a dream world,

you can pull him out of reality. And I think that's a little

easier to deal with. Jason has always been somewhat

grounded in reality, even when he's immortal.

Yeah, totally. And what do

you think just looking to the future

franchises with this? So we had a Texas Chainsaw

Massacre and film in 2022 on Netflix.

To me, it didn't do a great job of it because there was only

leatherface. And even when you go back to what

the author of the comic said, you need the whole

family. So to me, it wasn't really a Texas Chainsaw

Massacre movie. It could have just put

anyone else in there. It had some of the

gentrification aspects that are even touched on in the

original film, though. So I think we'll see

probably another one. I'm sure we will. These

franchises never die. But the one we do I didn't.

See that one and I won't.

The one we do know about, which I'm super excited if it actually

happens, because there's some questionable things with the creator. And the

rights always with this franchise is Friday the

13th, the prequel series on

Peacock. Are you excited

for that, do you think? Some of the stuff that actually was

touched on in this comic in terms of Jason's

backstory, do you think we'll see some version of that

on this series?

I have no idea.

I'm into it because I like world building. And

you've even actually often talked on this show about

world building working

when a creator has

limitations. And in this case, there might be some

rights limitations about what they can and cannot

include in this. And so I think

that could make it really interesting.

Uh, in spite of recent things

about the possibility that Brian Fuller is not a nice person,

I love the arts he's created. And this is from a

24, which is also fascinating. So I think

it's got the right ingredients to be really cool

if it happens. Yeah.

And on a previous episode, my

speculation when we were doing some speculations for the

future was that this was going to be a, uh,

queer Jason. Not just because of the creator.

But I think you even said that. Didn't I feel like you said that

before this got announced.

I think I might have I don't even know.

You were prescient. But then when I look, you said that

before this was announced.

Even at the comic we were just discussing in the

flashbacks, the father, because Jason is going to

hide behind his mom. And his father even

says, be a like don't be like a sissy boy,

a mama's boy. And it's like, oh my gosh. So much of this

could be easily then transformed into

a queer metaphor.

Yeah. Um, I'm sure that if the series happens,

it will be it has crystal

in the title. Come on.

That's true.

So I think that is a

wrap. I'm glad we survived the

experience. Dear

Watchers, thank you for listening.

I have been Guido and I have

been robberface.

Oh, yeah. I've been Guido Voorhees. Our reading

list is in the show notes. Please do follow us online

on all social media at, uh, dear Watchers, and.

Leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. A five star

review. We'll be back soon with another trip through the

multiverse.

In the meantime, in the words of ought to keep pondering the

possibilities.

Chip.