Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

>> Rob: Do you like scintillating conversation about comics, cartoons, and the multiverse? Well, this episode will be catnip for your ears. Welcome to Dear Watchers, an omniversal comic book podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

>> Guido: We are traveling with you through the stories and the world that make up an omniverse of fictional realities we all love. I feel like I should have been singing that line. And your watchers on this journey are me, the brunette in the band, Guido.

>> Rob: And me on double tambourine. It's Rob and wait, it's our third pussycat. We are reunited, and it feels so good. Welcome back, Ethan.

>> Guido: Hello.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Hello. And by process of elimination, I guess I'm melody and I play drums anyway, so it works out.

>> Rob: There you go.

>> Guido: Look at that. That's perfect. I play nothing, so I don't know what that means. Well, in the cartoon, we'll get into this, but in the cartoon, they just have her swinging tambourines, so I could do that.

>> Rob: Well, that's Val. She's the bassist, but for playing? Yeah. I don't know why.

>> Guido: Well, no, I'll be tambourine Val.

>> Rob: Okay. There you go.

>> Guido: I can manage that.

>> Rob: And before we, welcome back. Uh.

>> Guido: This is our 9th episode together.

>> Rob: Oh, my gosh.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Wow.

>> Guido: Yes. I know you're a regular, uh, a staple, but it has been a while, so we're really excited that you're back and for our conversation today.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I know, absolutely.

>> Rob: Yeah. Before we begin our little musical tour, guitar, what's new in our section of the multiverse?

>> Guido: I mean, not much is new with us. I will mention two tv shows that we're watching, though, that are new. And, Ethan, I'm curious if you've watched either. We just binged the Masters the universe revolution, which is the second season of the new reboot, recall, if you will, by Kevin Smith. Are you a he man fan, Ethan?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I appreciate he man, but I haven't really delved into that world.

>> Guido: Well, revolution is fun. It's five episodes, so it's quite bite sized, which is the only disappointing part about it. And our listeners should tune in because I think we're going to be talking to one of the creators and writers in the very near future. So that's exciting because there's lots of teases in this season of revolution that I want to dig into with them. And then we also watched Echo. Ethan, did you watch Echo? We are savoring it. So we didn't watch the finale yet. We watched the first four. Whoa. It is good. Yeah, it's really good. Where did this show come from? And, uh, as someone who was totally on the MCU is falling apart bandwagon and having, like, a deep emotional disappointment every time I consume something, this show is like, ah, ah. I enjoy this show. I enjoy this character. It's tight, it's well written, it's good action. I'm like, where did this come?

>> Rob: Mhm. And, you know, both of those shows are five episodes, which is kind of nice. Like, it's nice and bite sized. You can get through it in a week or two. And so many of these other shows, especially some of the MCU shows, they go like, well, we don't need that 8th episode. It would have been much better if you just ended at five or in.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: The Netflix series, we didn't need that 7th episode or that 9th episode. 13th episode.

>> Guido: Exactly.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And again, I love daredevil very much, and I enjoyed that show when I watched it. But it's hard for me to go back and watch it because I'm like, there's a lot of filler.

>> Guido: Totally. Same with Jessica Jones. I really want to go rewatch it, and it's just like, I don't have 30 hours to spend doing this.

>> Rob: Uh, yeah. And season two of Iron Fist, that was all filler.

>> Guido: I know people are disappointed. Like, born again dropped an episode count. I'm like, no, that is a good thing. If it's going to make for better storytelling. I don't care if it's 18 episodes or three episodes. I want it to be better. And sometimes less space makes for better stories.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Exactly.

>> Rob: Mhm. Well, if you're joining this episode for the first time.

>> Guido: You didn't even pick up on that, Rob.

>> Rob: Oh, I did. Sorry.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Dropping these puns for you left and right.

>> Rob: Well, we have three parts to our journey today through the multiverse and space origins of the story, exploring multiversity and pondering possibilities. So thank you for coming along in our little rocket ship.

>> Guido: And remember, you can leave us a five star review wherever you are listening to us, in your ears. We appreciate it.

>> Rob: And with that, dear watchers, welcome to episode 126. And let's check out what's happening in the omniverse with our travels to today's alternate universe. Today we, uh, plug in and take off to answer the question, what if Josie and the Pussycats went into outer space?

>> Guido: You have some reverb on your m. Yeah.

>> Rob: Oh, I thought you were going to add that in post. No. Okay, never mind.

>> Guido: So this alternate earth, we actually have two alternate earths today. More on that in a moment. It's not been cataloged or classified. It doesn't have a number. Oddly, uh, that it's happened twice. And they're not connected either. So today's segments are going to be a bit different, with comics only making an appearance fully in our third segment today. And we first talked Josie and the Pussycats with Ethan. Mega fan of Josie and the Pussycats back on episode 95 in May 2023. And Ethan is currently showing off for people who are listening and can't see his t shirt of Josie and the Pussycats, the modern comic version that we covered back on episode 95. And, uh, before we dig in, Ethan, why did you choose our question for today that you chose short, uh, answer?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Because we didn't have time to talk about this one when we talked about regular Josie. Because we could have done a whole series of episodes just about Josie.

>> Guido: Ah, that is your dream, isn't it? Yeah. Well, we'll do. It'll just take some time. We'll have some breaks in between. But I'm sure she has many more multiversal.

>> Rob: Yeah, well, we'll talk about the rest of our origins with Josie and the Pussycats during our first segment. So let's get into it. It's time for our opening act, it's origins of the story. Right now, on this very show, you're going to get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago. So first up today is the nemos. Uh, a no no affair. Whoa. Uh, that is episode one of Josie and the Pussycats, the animated series from September twelveth 1970.

>> Guido: That title rings of when people would always make fun of Stanley or other writers trying to write like they thought teens were talking in the 60s. That's what that reads as. Were people calling things. No, no. Affairs. I don't even know what that is. Anyway, so this episode is written by Lars Bourne, Tom Desane and Bill Lutz, who have story credits. Jules Byrne, of course, is credited for creating the character of Captain Nemo.

>> Rob: He'd be so proud.

>> Guido: Directed by Joseph Barbera and William Hannah. So it is a Hannah Barbera cartoon. We'll hear more in a moment. And just a quick one sentence summary for this episode, which is not loosely based on 20,000 leagues under the sea, but does seem to use that as a way of getting at the gang. Josie, the Pussycats, Alexandra, the twins. I don't know, Alan. Whoever these people are, Ethan will tell us who have found a modern day descendant of Captain Nemo while on their way to a musical gig on Pago Pago island. And it features the song Roadrunner, because every episode features a song. Before we dig in, though, Rob has some background on the series.

>> Rob: Yes. So Josie and the Pussycats, the animated series from Hannah Barbera, premiered on CBS on September twelveth, 1970. So it was directly inspired, of course, by the success of the animated the Archie show in 1968 and 69. From film Nation and Hannah Barbera. Yeah, exactly. And film Nation and Hannah Barbera. I guess they were like the jets and the sharks. They were always wanted to one up each other. So Hannah Barbera wanted to come up with their own music themed tv show. So they started with something called the Mysteries five, and that became Scooby Doo, where are you? And Scooby Doo premiered one year and a day earlier than Josie and the Pussycats. And it is a very, very clear template for the Josie show, to the.

>> Guido: Point where we thought some of the characters were Scooby Doo characters.

>> Rob: Exactly.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I was like, is that shaggy?

>> Rob: Yes, we'll get into that.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Exactly.

>> Rob: So the Josie and the pussycat show only lasted 16 episodes. Asterisks. We'll get into that in a second, too. But it did make history with Valerie. She was the first regular black character on a cartoon voiced by a black actor. So that is pretty cool. And just a little note about some of the actors. So Josie was Janet Waldo, aka Judy Jetson. Valerie's vocals were by Patrice Holloway, singer of the Motown art sister of the Motown artist Brenda Holloway, and she did most of the lead vocals on the show. Melody's singing voice is Cheryl Ladd, who would go on to become one of Charlie's angels. And the singing voices were chosen from over 500 submissions, according to them. Maybe that's not true. Melody's speaking voice is Jackie Joseph, who was Audrey in the Roger Corman's original little shop of horrors, and later Mrs. Fudderman in the Gremlins movie. Not singing, but you could totally see Audrey, kind of the dumb blonde in little shop of horrors. And here as well, Alan, is Jerry Dexter, who was sunfire on Spider man, and his amazing friends, the cabot's cat, Sebastian. And later, bleep the alien is Don Messick, who would be dick Dastardly's sidekick, mutley. And they do the exact same. Oh, and the voice of doo. Yes, yes, you're. Yeah. And, uh, speaking of the exact same voice, Alexander is the famous DJ Casey Ksom, who is also shaggy on Scooby Doo. And the characters are basically exactly the same. They're drawn the same. They even have the same catchphrases. They're both in green. So, yes, it's almost like a parallel universe to Scooby Doo.

>> Guido: So, ethan, start us off with when did you discover this show in terms of your love of Josie? Was it after you fell in love with Josie? Or was this the entry point? Or. Tell us about this show.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: So I kind of already knew about it. And I may have watched a few episodes as a kid in reruns, of course, in 29. Um, but I had rediscovered it after I had watched the first season of Riverdale. And Riverdale had rekindled my love of Archie. And I thought, okay, I need a fix. And so I looked into the show and I thought, oh, this is very much like Scooby Doo. So, in turn, riverdale, uh, rekindled my love of.

>> Guido: So they are remarkably similar.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, it's just Scooby Doo, but with a cat. And, uh, thankfully, not this episode, but a whole lot more racism.

>> Rob: Uh. Oh, really? God, really?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Uh, yeah, we lucked out with a mad scientist this episode, because, uh, some of the other episodes, the whole plot is usually, oh, Josie and the pussycats go to this country and the villain is some dictator. That's like, every possible stereotype of that country.

>> Rob: Oh, wow.

>> Guido: God.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And it's a whole thing where it's like, oh, we're like, two steps forward with, uh, valerie's portrayal, but then, like, eleven steps back.

>> Rob: Yeah. Because Valerie is also, like, what's cool is she's also, like, the most capable one. She's really the sense of. She's the calm voice, but she's also the technical one in the group, so she really knows. Yeah, totally.

>> Guido: Josie just gets herself into trouble. Melody is the stereotypically dumb blonde, which is problematic.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And the comic relief.

>> Guido: But she does get a lot of good. Yeah.

>> Rob: Yeah. I was kind of curious what your thoughts are, ethan, because in this, josie and the Pussycats as well know, the next series that we're going to talk about, it really should just be called, like, alexandra Cabot and the Pussycats, because, like, really doesn't have a lot to do. I think in this first episode, this captain, uh, nemo episode, she might have, like, five lines in the entire episode. So, what are your thoughts on Josie as a quote unquote central character?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I think that that's one of the reasons why I love the movie so much.

>> Rob: Uh-huh.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: That they really centralize Josie in a way that we know it's her as the main character, but we're not taking away from the other characters. Everyone gets to shine, but we also know that it is all around her story. It's the same thing with the two, uh, thousand and 16 series. It's her story, but it's also everybody else around her. They really support each other a lot more than just, oh, yeah, here she is. Uh, classic Daphne is the template here. Classic Fred is the template for Alan, where he's also doing Jack and even wearing an ascot.

>> Rob: Yeah, they look exactly the same. Alan and Fred.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Muscular Fred.

>> Rob: Yes, he's more muscular. Yeah, he's the hotter Fred. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because I remember when we read some of the 60s comics on the last episode too, and I was also struck by, like, oh, Alexandra really almost feels like the main character. And watching this first episode here too, she's the one that drives all the action because it's always her meddling that seems to kind of keep the story engine going. And she's also just a fun character because who doesn't want to play the villain, really?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And they ditch her magic powers.

>> Rob: Oh, yes, that's true.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: She only ever has her magic powers when the plot requires it. And, uh, that's just the classic comics. I'm pretty sure at one point she met Sabrina in some Archie book, but I could also be thinking about a fan art piece.

>> Guido: I bet they did. Again, she talked to Sebastian in the show, right? Isn't that kind of.

>> Rob: Well, kind of. Right.

>> Guido: You kind of get the feeling like.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: She can talk to. Yeah, kind of. But I always looked at that as, like, just talking to your pet. Now we'll get to that. In the space comic.

>> Guido: Yes, they do play with it quite a bit there. And so this show, overall, do you love it? Is it okay? Does it capture the spirit of Josie and the Pussycats? Where does it fall for you?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I think it's okay. Uh, I think it has a special place in my heart because it reminded me of how much I love Scooby Doo and how much better quality a show Scooby Doo is. Um, but looking at it as a foundation for how much I love the movie. Yes. Um, I really do appreciate it for what it is because I would say that the movie is more in the spirit of the cartoon than the cartoon is in the spirit of really anything else, except for in the spirit of Scooby Doo.

>> Guido: Yeah. Uh, because it's not even like the comics. Let's take this first episode. They fight this underwater dictator guy who uses music and makes no sense. Does that kind of thing happen in the Josie and the Pussycats comics?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Uh, not really. There was a time when they tried to do kind of a horror, um, element where a couple of the stories were spooky. But most of the time it's Josie just going on misadventures with her friends. And it's nothing kooky like that. It's really just girl Archie. And she plays music.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: It's such an interesting choice to make this tv show be tonally so different from the comic. And if you were a fan of the comic, I don't think you would have watched this show and been like, oh, there's my girls. Because they're underwater fighting this nemo.

>> Rob: Yeah. And to your point, guido too. They have Captain Nemo, who's like, the actor is kind of doing like a Boris Karloff impression. But I think, as you said, it's more like Bobby Boris Pickett, who did the monster match, doing Boris Karloff, that you even have him play the organ, which I don't think Captain Nemo played the organ. Why does he have an organ on his submarine? He's a very. But it almost.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: Feels like they needed to include that just to get, like, another music theme. And it's like, oh, the show is supposed to be about music, so let's have the villain play the organ.

>> Guido: Yeah. It's a, uh, strange one. A strange installation in the canon of Josie, for sure. It was amazing to me. It only lasted for 16 episodes because I also feel like it was on reruns growing up, and I feel like it was a fixture. But so many of these shows that live on in our pop culture memory actually had such brief runs.

>> Rob: Well, it did come back for an encore. Uh, so let's get into our exploring multiversity.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: S. Follow me and ponder the question.

>> Rob: What if, in order to start to answer our question today, what if Josie and the Pussycats went into outer space? Space. We are going to begin with the teethy debut of the story that almost 50 years later would become a comic, sort of, kind of. And that is. Where's Josie? That's episode one of Josie and the Pussycats in Outer Space, which is essentially season two of Josie the animated series. And this came out September 1972.

>> Guido: So this is directed by Joseph Barbera and William Hannah and doesn't appear to have writing credits, which was common for cartoons back then.

>> Rob: They improvised the whole thing.

>> Guido: The song, though, did have a credit. Double Trouble in this episode was written by Richard Moyers. And a very brief summary, because we're surely going to dig in and then Rob's going to give us some background to kick it off. Finding themselves lost in space, aboard a spaceship. The Pussycats land on the planet Zelk and encounter a creature named Bleep. And Josie is kidnapped by an alien named Karnak, a, uh, ruler who is intent on recopring the population. And there are androids and doubles and all sorts of antics that we'll get into. But, Rob, where did this show come from?

>> Rob: So, of course, yeah. The original animated series was canceled after 16 episodes. But in 1972, the show was recontextualized as Josie and the Pussycats in outer space. So then it had 16 more episodes, which aired on CBS during the 1972 73 season. But it actually later reruns were on all three networks at the time. So, Guido, as you said, like Iran, it seems to live in our heads. And reruns, it was all over the place, so we were probably seeing it, uh, decades later. And the show is the same cast as the original, plus the alien, uh, named leap. And you even said they're lost in space. It clearly takes inspiration from lost in space, with Alexandra standing in as the Dr. Smith character. As in, each episode ends with Alexandra, or sometimes another character accidentally keeping the gang lost in space after they've been set back on their course for so.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And spoiler alert for the season. Uh, I think it's for the matter of syndication. Last episode, they're still lost in space.

>> Rob: They're still out there, back to Earth. They've eaten bleep by this point. Yeah.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: One thing about double trouble. Would you consider double trouble a, uh, universal groove, since they're outer Space Girls?

>> Guido: Yes. Did you just. A Spice Girls lyric. I was like, hold on. I was like, wait, ethan's breaking my brain right now. And it's like a b side Spice Girls song, too. Spice Invaders. Oh, my God, ethan, I love you.

>> Rob: This is amazing.

>> Guido: Let's talk about the Spice Girls. Forget Josie and the Pussycats. Um, I guess Josie and the Pussycats are a bit of a template, perhaps, for them.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And Alan comes in both movies.

>> Rob: Yes, that's.

>> Guido: Is. This is wacky because this is not from the comics. They decide to reboot the show. I know space was a thing, and everyone was like, let's just put people in space. But actually, we are looking. There's Gilligan's planet, where they shoot the cast of Gilligan's island into space. That's ten years later. So I don't know. None of us, I think, know the full history of things in outer space. But I wonder if this is one of the early examples of, like, let's just take this thing. Everyone knows and throw them into space.

>> Rob: Mhm. Yeah. I mean, the jetsons was in 62, lost in space is in 65. So those both predate, but those are both things, you know, exactly like they're.

>> Guido: About original space stories. This is like, hey, we're just going to put these people in space. It's so od. Ethan, what do you think of this?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Uh, I think it's an interesting take. I will also go back to my comments on how poorly aged a lot of the villains are in the, uh, previous series. M. It makes it a little better that it's space because it's less obvious. From my recollection now, I could be very wrong. I could go back and see some alien that could very well obviously be a caricature of someone. But the aliens, when I saw the series in general, I did not think they were anything, like, offensive. Whereas there are some overt stereotypes in the original series.

>> Guido: Yeah. When they're on Earth. I wonder if part of putting them in space was that. I mean, not that I think probably, but also being very thoughtful.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: But I love their, uh, outfits. I love their, uh, space outfits. They're almost kind of superheroes.

>> Rob: Yeah. And this one even gets rid of, I guess, the premise of them being a band even more, at least on this first episode, because at least in the original series, like, oh, they had been playing a concert and then get diverted here. It's like, I don't know. We kind of see in the opening credits how they ended up in space, but it's never really explained why.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: The only exposition we ever get, there's no other exposition about that. You have to pay attention to the theme song and what is it?

>> Guido: What is the explanation?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: The explanation is in the visuals that they're taking a photo, uh, in front of a rocket ship, and Alexandra, trying to be the main character, butts in photobombed, and then basically accidentally pushes everybody into the rocket ship, which then launches into space.

>> Guido: Oh, I missed that detail.

>> Rob: Well, yeah, no, it's only in the opening credits because otherwise the show just starts and they're like, we're lost in space. And it's like, wait, how did you get into space?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: They don't even reference it in space. They were not like, oh, Alexandra, if you hadn't, uh, cut in front of us, we wouldn't be in the. They didn't even do that.

>> Guido: Yeah, it's a weird setup. It works, though. I'd say it works better for me as not a fan of this world or any attachment to these characters, just as a show this one is even wackier. I mean, I know the first one sounded wacky because it's an underwater dictator who plays a pipe organ. But this one, I don't know. I think the addition of bleep and the stuff with the. Like, there's good jokes in the way they're trying to detect if the androids are copies and they throw the water on them. And then you get that great scene where Melody throws herself in water because she's like, wait, I'm trying to see if I'm a robot. That's all fun. I liked all of those pieces because they go further into the absurdity, I'd say.

>> Rob: Yeah, I did on both series. Laugh out loud at some of Melody's lines. She does have some legitimately funny lines. She's, like, the only one, but she does have some really fun little bits.

>> Guido: What is your favorite part, Ethan, of this episode or this iteration of Josie?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I thought it was interesting. I wouldn't say this was my favorite part, but I just thought it was an interesting point to make that, ah, the villain Karnak. I don't think they knew this, but when I saw that, I was like, that's an inhuman.

>> Guido: I know.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Same spelling and everything.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: So I thought that was kind, uh, of interesting. Um, but, yeah, no, I think my favorite is actually, uh, the theme song. I think it's a really fun spin on the Josie and the Pussycats theme, the original theme. Um, they changed the lyrics enough to be about space, but it's pretty much the same thing.

>> Guido: And BLeep is a welcome addition.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And bleep, absolutely. Which, funnily enough, I had actually remembered this, but it was too late. Uh, we do see Bleep a couple more times outside of this. We see him in the show jellystone, which is the Yogi bear. The Yogi bear. The Yogi bear show. That's basically everybody, but doo, uh, bleep makes a cameo. And I saw that on Twitter, like, uh, years ago. And I was like, wait, how? Because they don't have the rights to Josie, but they had the rights to Bleep. Because BLeep was original. Uh, Bleep was a Hannah Barbera character. Yeah, of course. And then, if I remember correctly, bleep is kind of becomes an alien parody in the, um, Archie robot chicken special, uh, where they do some outer space segments. So I wish.

>> Guido: I remember. I think we watched one of those when Rob and I were prepping for our last episode on Josie. I remember putting that on.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I wish I had remembered, because also, uh, Seth Green, creator of, uh, robot chicken. He and I think at least one of the other guys reprise their roles as du jour. And then they get eviscerated by.

>> Guido: Yes, I do remember that. Yes, we did watch that clip. I did not know who bleep was at the time, so I wouldn't have gotten that reference. Certainly, uh, it's fun how melody is the only one who can understand what Bleep is saying.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yes.

>> Guido: Weird.

>> Rob: Yeah. And there's a nice little rivalry then between BLeep and Sebastian the cat as well, which is a fun little through line.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: Well, let us, uh, launch into our final segment. Let's not get lost in space. Let's get lost in pondering possibilities. Will the future you describe be averted? Diverted? Diverted? So, Guido, what are we talking about for our pondering possibilities?

>> Guido: So this is it. This is why we're here today. Which is the comic book series that, uh, really, almost 50 years later, finally puts the Josie and the Pussycats in space.

>> Rob: Yes, it is Josie and the Pussycats in space. It is a comixology original. This is chapters one through five. It was wrapping up in April 2020.

>> Guido: And these are the only five chapters. We read them all. The story is by Alex Decampi. The art and cover are by Devaki Niogi, lettering by Jack Morelli, coloring by Lee Loudridge. Editor in chief Victor Gorlick. And the editors of this series are Alex Segura. I'm a big fan of his. And Jamie Lee Rotant. And so Alex DeCampi had done Archie versus Predator prior to this. And wanted to do some horror stuff because, yes, this is a horror title and still does a lot of horror work in indie comics and in prose novels. And Devaki Niyogi is an indie comics artist with a few books to her name. Especially doing covers for boom, some boom titles.

>> Rob: And I actually saw Alex at New York Comic Con this past year talking about horror comics on a panel. But she did not talk about.

>> Guido: Is instead of a summary, this is the solicit for the series. So, Rob, do you want to read us that and then we'll get into our discussion?

>> Rob: Sure. Josie and the Pussycats are the hottest band in outer space. But with fame and fortune comes turmoil. As internal conflicts are threatening to tear the group apart. But that's nothing compared to the alien horrors they're about to encounter. As they find themselves adrift in the vastness of space. Even if the Pussycats manage to stick together as a band, will they be able to survive the horrors that await them? In the final frontier.

>> Guido: And spoiler alert for people who haven't read this and want to read it, we're going to talk about the whole thing, because I will say, I'll start us off. I didn't know it was going to be horror.

>> Rob: No, me too.

>> Guido: As I was reading it, I was like, ooh, uh, Rob's going to really get into this because I had no, slowly, like, they start to have that black goop alien thing show up. And I was like, oh, it's going to end up being silly. No.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: When I first read it a couple of years ago, I actually didn't know it was going to be horror either. I thought, yay, we're bringing Josie in space. By the way, this is not in print.

>> Guido: They never even did a collected edition in print.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: No. I think they promised it at one point, and then it got. And the only shelving, the only shelving I want of this is, I want this book on my shelf.

>> Guido: Uh, yeah, that's the problem with those comixology originals. Hopefully, Archie comics can get a deal to be able to print it, because, yeah, it's fun. And it's a good length too. It's five probably slightly shorter issues. So it's like 100 page book. It'd be a perfect trade paperback for people who want to digest, uh, a fully start to finish done story.

>> Rob: Yeah. And it does a great job, too, of weaving in the pop band elements of it, even without, like, a song break, because it's comic, but it makes, you know, from the very beginning, oh, this is a band. Like, even that solicit starts with, like, oh. The first problem is with the internal band dynamics, which is also such a key part of the Josie movie. And then, by the way, there's an evil alien.

>> Guido: Well, unlike the tv show, this starts us off with, um, they're doing a concert on another planet. Right away, they're setting up. Why they're in space, this alternate world or future where we can space travel. So it's a little more fully fleshed out than the cartoon.

>> Rob: Yeah, I was fully expecting it to be. I think after watching the two animated series episodes and reading many of the Archie comics, not the horror ones, necessarily, but many Archie ones, where it's like, it's Archie meets the B 52s or whatever, it's like, oh, it's, like, silly. So I was kind of expecting that tone. And I think what Alex DeCapi does really well is kind of starts with that tone a bit, and then, uh, gradually, and is very subtly and slowly starts to put the horror element. So it really kind of sneaks up on you as a reader. Did you both kind of have that same sensation?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, uh, in 2020 when I read it, yeah. But when I chose it for the episode, I was, like, suspending my disbelief and trying to recapture when I had read it.

>> Rob: Because the thing it has the most then, like, dna then with is John Carpenter's the thing. Because you get this alien that is able to pretend to be other people and that the only way to tell is through infrared. And you get so much of that same thing in the thing where you don't know who is real and who is not. So it's almost like, yeah, Josie and the Pussycats meets the thing. That could have been an alternate title for this.

>> Guido: What's fun, though, is, and, uh, I imagine this is not an accident. That plot element exists in that episode we watched. Yes, it exists in the pilot of the cartoon, of course, in a totally absurd and different way. But that idea of these alien doubles is there. And she just took it and said, like, no, let's do this for real. Let's play this for real.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I never thought of that.

>> Rob: Because there's that one whole moment in the animated series where the gang is all locked up, and then we see other versions of the gang that are, uh, about to actually go out. So they're about to spread the evil robots everywhere. So it's robots. It's not in aliens. It's also a little less creepy in that think, like, because we were looking to Ethan like, that, we were thinking, oh, there must have been some Josie in space in between. Uh, like some silver age tv issue.

>> Guido: Where they put her in space. And it doesn't look like there is. It looks like.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: No, there's never a Josie comic. I think maybe they've done plays on that. Like, in the 90s, they had Archie and friends where Josie was, like, half of the book, and there's a cover of them in space. But I think that was just kind of a nod to the cartoon. They had a recent Josie 60th anniversary, um, issue, and there was just kind of another josie in space story. But really they played music and their little cartoon character, not bleep, but their little cartoon character, Cosmo, from, uh, Archie comics, shows up, and he kind of derails it from being a, um. Yeah, that's actually. I think that's the last we've ever actually seen of Josie in space.

>> Guido: Wow.

>> Rob: Yeah. So then it really seems like Alex was using that episode as a direct reference.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I could see that.

>> Guido: Yeah. And so as a Josie fan, do you like this series? Do you think it's a series people should read?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Is it? I absolutely do.

>> Guido: For you?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, I absolutely do think people should read it. I don't think it should be their first Josie book, but I think it should be like their second or third. Um, I think actually your first Josie book should be, uh, uh, the 2016 run because it's very accessible. Um, and people that know Josie will love it for the easter eggs, but people that are getting to know Josie will appreciate it on surface, uh, level. Um, this one is good if you like a good horror comic, but also that ven diagram is kind of weird. I can't see just a regular horror fan reading this and be like, wait, Josie of the Pussycats. I think I remember that cartoon. What are they doing? Um, who's this guy named sock? Why are they calling this guy sock? Uh, but yeah, I really like it. I think the art is beautiful. Another reason why it should have been printed. Um, but yeah, I think the art is beautiful. I think it's eerie where it's supposed to be. I think it's action based where it's supposed to be. Um, especially when we first see Alexandra.

>> Guido: I was like, oh yeah, she's going to. Because the cabbage are like space military, uh, people, they have their own ships. And that's a really fun aspect. Yeah, but she still has the cat.

>> Rob: Which of course is only, go ahead, ethan.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: She talks to the cat, which by the way, he's colored differently. I think Sebastian was white in this comic instead of black and white. Um, he has a thought bubble and something else that was, uh, a little inconsistency that, um, for lack of a better term, kind of bugs me, was, uh, she refers to Alexander as little brother. At one point in the comic, I was like, they're twins. So unless she's getting real technical.

>> Guido: Yeah, exactly.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: No, they're twins.

>> Rob: Mhm. I think my only criticism with this comic, I think only because after watching the other shows, is that the, uh, cabots do get like the short end of the stick in this comic where, yeah, she gets to fly the thing, but you don't really get to do too much. And I would imagine because they are either the antagonists or the creators of chaos in the animated shows and in the comics that they felt like, well, we already got an alien that's like melting people's flesh off, so we don't need someone else doing something. So they're pushed to aside. And I love those characters so much that I wish they were more, but that's my only quibble.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Well, I agree with you there, because I have been saying this for as long as I love Josie. Almost everybody under the sun in the Archie universe has gotten their own series, and clearly an antagonistic character can have a run. Cheryl Blossom had, like, an 18 issue series in the 90s. Where is my Cabot book? Where is my book about the cabots? How they came to be, or just more stories with them? Um, in one of the, um, Archie Horger anthologies, I think it's Archie's weirder mysteries. Um, there is a story with Alexandra Cabot, and it's kind of flipped because it is a Josie story. Josie is there other characters, but we see it through the lens of Alexandra. Alexandra is the main character, and not because she's trying to be. They are telling that story through that angle. And I thought that was very noteworthy, and I thought more of this, please.

>> Guido: I literally just filed that issue away yesterday. Rob, you had it in one of your piles from down here.

>> Rob: Oh, my gosh.

>> Guido: Presents weirder mysteries.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Which is a play on the old cartoon, Archie's weird Mysteries.

>> Rob: Oh, okay.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: The title.

>> Rob: The title.

>> Guido: Anyway, I like all those one shot that they're doing are really a fun way for someone who's not a fan to get different tastes of the characters and the stories in different genres. I like those a lot.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I like them too. But I do wish that, uh, they would go back to what Mark Wade was doing in 2015.

>> Guido: Yeah, and a modern series.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah. Riverdale without the spookiness and murder. Dawson's creek, if it were good.

>> Guido: Exactly. Uh, so I want to talk about the end of this, because that's where I really loved it, because at the end also, yes, there was a lot about the band dynamics, but then the whole middle of the story becomes in space, and I'm thinking, oh, they sort of moved away from the fact that they're a band, but then they're getting back to, I don't know, are they on earth or wherever, at some space station? I don't know, but they're getting back and everyone's like, oh, no, it's been ten years. You're legends now. They're giving a big concert performance, and then we find out that, who is it that infects melody? Is that Alan?

>> Rob: Alan.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Alan. Yeah.

>> Guido: So Alan is actually an alien, and then takes over melody, and then the series ends. And, um, that is so fun. M and perfect horror genre.

>> Rob: And it's a bit of a different dynamic throughout, too. Right, Ethan? Because Alan always seems to be kind of attached, maybe as a crush on Melody, not on Josie.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Alan and Josie are an item in the cartoon and the movie. And when I say cartoon, I probably should say cartoons, but I'm lumping both of them together. Alan is in literally one episode of Riverdale, and he's in that Josie return of the Pussycats we watched, and he's dating Valerie. I think this is the only time he's with Melody. He may have dated Melody here and there, but this is the only explicit time, uh, that we've seen her with, uh, alan. And then, of course, with, uh, Alexandra. She's always, like, into Alan, but never gets him. Except actually, spoiler alert, she does get with him in this series run. Um, I'll always go back to the 2016 run. Yeah, there's a point where, uh, he had dated, um, josie, um, throughout the 2016 run. And then down the line as the series was, quote unquote, wrapping up, um, there was an arc where, uh, he and Alexandra got together. And so technically, in that universe, now he and Alexandra are together because we haven't gone back to the 2016 criminally, uh, underrated short after nine issues.

>> Rob: So we're just missing Alexander and Alan in a relationship that will complete everything. Yes. Then Alan will have slept with everyone. But I was also thinking, like, the story I made in my head is like, we don't know when Alan has changed. And maybe Melanie being, like, the dumb, like he was to, I'm gonna, like, start a relationship with her because she's gonna be the easiest of the three to change. Like, that's the story I made in my head why we had that coupling.

>> Guido: Yeah, could be, I think.

>> Rob: Mhm.

>> Guido: Could be.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I could do that.

>> Rob: And even just like, the broader questions, too. I mean, I love the actual twist of the ending, which I did not see coming at all. But even the other questions about, like, oh, they've been asleep for ten years, or it's been ten years, and now they're legends because they were kind of lost in space and now they're back. Even. That is interesting. Big questions to, uh, pose in a 100 page comic about a girl rock band.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Well, one of my favorite points is the reason why they go into the cryo sleep is to save on, um.

>> Guido: Food and water and the cost of keeping people awake.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, exactly.

>> Rob: Yeah. There was a lot of alien, a lot of Philip K. Dick. Like, all those kind of things just sprinkled throughout with, like, that. It's like, oh, we can't spend the money on you. We have to keep you in Cryo's sleep. That is one of the reasons why there's the friction between the band, even because they don't like to have to keep doing this. So it's even woven into the plot in a smart way.

>> Guido: So, moving from outer space. I have a question before we wrap up. I'm wondering, so we've looked at what if Josie and the Pussycats end up in outer space? Go to outer space. Where do you want to send Josie and the Pussycats? Where do you think? There's good stories to be told. So, Rob, do you want to start?

>> Rob: No, I've got two. And it's not places, I guess, as people, because in 2024, there's going to be a new spinal tap movie. And I thought, how fun to do a one off comic where Spinal tap accidentally gets booked to open for Josie and the Pussycats. You kind of do, like, old heavy metal guys with this younger pop band, and I think there could be fun stuff there.

>> Guido: You can also in the meta humor of the Josie movie.

>> Rob: Totally. Totally. With the humor of Spinal Tap. And then the thing that. I don't know. Obviously, it's right issues, but they should meet up with Jem and the holograms and do a Josie and the Pussycats gem and the Holograms. And I was thinking Alexandra hooks up with Eric Raymond and starts managing the misfits there. And I think Melody discovers Jem's secret identity, but because she's so dumb, she can't explain it to anybody. Like, there's a lot of things there, I'm sure. Obviously, it's, like, right issues. But how could these two huge all girl rock bands not have a meet up?

>> Guido: Yeah, for sure.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Throw the Hex girls in while we're at it.

>> Guido: So I was thinking more, almost like, rob, our answer last week, last episode to Superman. True, Brit. I was thinking more about time travel than travel in geography. But now that Ethan's brought the Spice Girls into my mind and has mentioned a crossover, I'm going to have to say spice Girls. So let's do, like, Josie and the Pussycats at, uh.

>> Rob: Uh, some.

>> Guido: Have some Spice Girls reunion happening or something like that. So I think that is definitely what I want to see. So let's get them into England.

>> Rob: That would be fun.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And somehow, uh, throw in Wyatt frame as a meta reference.

>> Guido: What is that? I don't know.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Wyatt was Alan Cummings character.

>> Guido: Oh, my.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Return.

>> Guido: Exactly. Totally.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: He returned as.

>> Guido: Spice Girls manager also.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, it's revealed that that was Wyatt in that movie as well.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: Um, he was always Wyatt.

>> Guido: I'm totally here for it. Oh, my gosh. I hope someone is listening who can make that happen.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Deb Kaplan, Harry Elphont, whoever directed the Spice Girls movie.

>> Guido: Ethan, where do you want the girls to go?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: 10,000 BC, and here's why. That was supposed to be the third series supposed to do. Ah, a third series or season, whatever you want to call it, where they go into, um, 10,000 BC and they run around and they fight dinosaurs or meet dinosaurs or whatever.

>> Guido: It'd be like the Flintstones, I guess.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah. Uh, and what's so funny is I don't even know if I dreamt this or not because when I look it up, I can't find it. But I saw on Twitter somewhere, like, some Hannah Barbera. There's, like, some Hannah Barbera account I follow. And they made a post about some blueprints and stills from what would have been the Josie and the Pussycats in caveman prehistoric times. And I thought, uh, why has Archie not at least tried to do this as a comic book? They put the Archie gang in prehistoric times all the time, but why not?

>> Guido: Yeah. Yeah. That would be really wonder. And I guess it was. Is Flintstones Hannah Barbera. It is, right?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yes.

>> Guido: So it probably was a, uh, thought that it would be at least like that, even if it wasn't explicitly that they are in bedrock or anything.

>> Rob: But it makes sense, too, because the first series is Scooby Doo, which is, like, super 70s contemporary. Then you get the Jetsons with outer space, and then you would get the Flintstones. So you get all of those key.

>> Guido: They're almost like Amalgam. Josie and the Pussycats.

>> Rob: Amalgams. Uh-huh. Pretty much.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And then my other pick is we've already seen an episode where Scooby Doo meets Josie and the Pussycats, but it's the cartoon versions of both back when they had Scooby Doo. And guess who, which was actually the modern version. I say modern in air quotes. There's an episode with Macklemore, and it came out in, like, 2015, but it's like the new Scooby Doo movies. So in the new Scooby Doo movies, which was the series where they met the Harlem Globetrotters, Mama Cass and Josie and the Pussycats, um, it was the cartoon versions. Well, I need, like, a modern movie or episode where they meet animated versions of the movie Josie and the.

>> Guido: Current.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: So the current Scooby gang. So it would be Matthew Lillard, and it would be, I guess, Kate McCucci as Velma, Greg Griffin and, uh, Frank Welker. And who's doing. Oh, Frank Welker is also doing Scooby. So it would be the cast of the Josie movie reprising their roles in that same universe. They did it for Urkel. You can do it for Josie.

>> Guido: I was just thinking about that. Yeah. And there was the rumored. I think it might have gotten canceled, but they were going to do an animated married with children. So I was thinking, oh, this totally fits.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And then, of course, it's so great. Let's do it twice. Do it. But with the Riverdale, Josie and the Pussycat. Same Scooby cast. Same Scooby cast. Um, animated. But do, uh, the version with, um, uh, Josie and the footcast, or it might cost less money. Um, there was a indiegogo Scooby doo doo live action fan made series that was called Mystery Incorporated. And it was kind of like, what if Scooby Doo was Riverdale? Um, so you make it live action and you give us those actors whose names I couldn't tell you. Um, and then, uh, the Pussycats from the Riverdale universe. I feel like that'd actually be more fitting. In case you, uh, couldn't tell. I think about this a.

>> Guido: You have. Well, it all makes sense bringing that movie back in some way, because I feel like when we covered it last year, it was an anniversary, and I feel like it was getting a bit of attention. I don't know if it was the 20th anniversary.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I think it was the 20th.

>> Guido: Um, and so I think it was getting reappraised for the really clever satire it is, as we discussed on that episode. And so I think it totally makes sense to have it. The cycle of pop culture reboots and stuff. It makes sense to try to pull that version of Josie back into pop culture again. And I think your suggestion, uh, for how to do it is great.

>> Rob: Yeah, they should have the band from the live action movie play like Coachella. That's the next step after these other things, after your ideas become big hits.

>> Guido: No, they're going to Glastonbury.

>> Rob: Oh, that's true. Spice Girls.

>> Guido: Yes, exactly. They're at many festivals.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: All right, big time rush will open for them.

>> Guido: So that is a wrap. Thank you, Ethan. Make mine amalgam. Ethan, please let people know where they can follow you for your homemade superhero action figure universe, your love of all things Archie, and, of course, your love of amalgam.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Well, you can still follow me primarily on Twitter, mostly because force of habit and familiarity. Um, as at makeminine amalgam, uh, Instagram. I'm hardly there but it's at make underscore mine. Underscore, um, amalgam. Uh, I'm also trying to be a little more on blue sky and threads, which I should be the same thing, uh, at make mine amalgam there. Well, actually, threads would be underscores because it's connected to Instagram, but, yeah, primarily Twitter. Uh, the fodderverse, which is my universe of, uh, custom figures, is growing exponentially, overwhelmingly exponentially. But it's been a lot of fun.

>> Rob: Yeah, it is.

>> Guido: It's so fun to see. And I'm excited for the next phase when you start to have some stories building around them.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, actually, I do have a lot of those, uh, I do threads of those on Twitter. Uh, I actually just made another, uh, character. Well, I'm always making characters, spending way too much money. But, um, I made this one character. I took, um, a choker from a black cat figure, and I put the head of a wasp figure on Moondragon. Now, I had an initial plan for Moondragon, but for some reason, the cape wasn't removable. So I just, uh, indirectly said to Hasbro, hold my beer, I'll still make. And so what I did was I created this character. I named her crescent, because she's got a crescent moon on her, um, cape. And it's a big, flowing cape. So I'm all about reference humor with my names, with my characters. So I named her Rachel McFarlane. Uh, of course, it's spelled A-E-L. Um, that's the only way you spell Rachel. Because I bought that Wasp figure initially so I could put it on a sue storm body just for my own, uh, validation. Exactly. But after I got so engrossed in making my own characters, I was like, okay, well, let's make a character that's kind of her, but as her own new character. And then McFarlane, because of the flowing Dracula looking cape, very all over. I'm all over the place, uh, with my naming conventions. I've recreated characters from past stories, pre fodderverse, and I've integrated them into the fodderverse. I've seen people make some of their own kit bashes, and I've integrated them into my universe.

>> Guido: Fun. I love it.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah.

>> Guido: Next, you also need, like, I'm picturing, like, Alec Baldwin in Beetlejuice. You need, like, a giant set where you actually set them up in scene with things, background.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: That's what I've actually tried to build.

>> Guido: And stuff like that.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Funnily enough, I have picked up all of the McFarlane, um, backdrops uh, so I have the bat cave, which is where I keep my characters, avian and avian girl. And they're my Batman, and they're my Batman and Batgirl. And actually, uh, Harvey Keaton is the real name of, uh, avian.

>> Guido: Cute.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Which is very layered because both Harvey Birdman and Michael Keaton. And then Michael Keaton was both Batman and Birdman.

>> Rob: Yes, that's right.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I made civilian versions of them, and I put them in the Wayne Manor backdrop, and I got the villain hideout, and I used that for my teen titans analog. Uh, the teen idols.

>> Rob: Well, speaking of Scooby Doo, Guido made me aware now that Freddie Prince Jr. Of Scooby Doo fame, all he does is paint miniatures and show them on instagram and post them on Instagram. So, uh, ethan, you have to connect with Freddie Prince and do, uh, a fodder verse Scooby Doo matchup with Fred Jones himself.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Funnily enough, actually, my character, pet shop boy, he gets his last name, Jones from Fred Jones.

>> Guido: Oh, there you go.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: His first name is Dexter, after Dexter Douglas from Freakazoid. Because that's my favorite thing about the fodderverse. Um, when I'm naming these characters, it's either a really good pun, like my character, the goof's real name, Judy Punch, or it's like, hey, let's amalgamate two things that I really love, like this freakazoid thing and Scooby Doo, and make.

>> Guido: A completely new character amazing. Well, it all comes back to Amalgam. That's why you're amalgam. So go follow ethan to follow that world. And otherwise, that is a wrap. Thank you, dear watchers, for listening.

>> Rob: I've been Guido, I've been Rob.

>> Guido: The reading list is in the show notes. You can follow us on all social media except Twitter at, uh, deer watchers.

>> Rob: And leave m a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.

>> Guido: In the meantime, in the words of Watu, keep pondering the possibilities.