Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

Rob: Welcome, children of the night, to Dear Watchers podcast, where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.
Guido: I was not expecting this, but we are traveling through the storyline before and after that inspired or took inspiration from this week's amazing alternate M Universe. And, uh, your watchers on this journey are me, Guido, by day and the B kel thrubb.
Rob: Oh, you're mixing up. Oh, that's an SCTV reference. Where Count Floyd? He dressed like a vampire, but he makes a werewolf noise.
Guido: Um, I got your own mashup.
Jake (Spec Tales): No.
Rob: He was their local horror, uh, host on SCTV. And speaking of some horrible things, we have two monster hunters here for our evening of blood sports, and that is Jake and Hayfus from Spectacles. Hello.
Jesús (Spec Tales): It's hard to follow that up. I don't know what to say. I'm in, um, awe right now, is what I am. Yes, I'm very excited to be here.
Jake (Spec Tales): I was, uh, shocked and in awe of Rob's performance there. That was incredible. Rob. I listen to a whole show with you doing that.
Rob: My parents did pay a lot of money for a theater degree that's just sitting on the shelf there.
Guido: Well, please, on a more serious note, tell us what Spectacles is. I'll start by telling our listeners who know you both from our anniversary show and hopefully listen to you because you are a weekly, must listen podcast for me. I adore you both as podcasters and as people. Can you tell everyone why you are awesome?
Jake (Spec Tales): Well, first of all, thank you for that. As far as why we are awesome, I'll let Jesus and his beard handle that part.
Jesús (Spec Tales): I mean, I never bring it up, uh, but the beard is a big part of it. Without the beard, I think we'd be less than. I don't know.
Jake (Spec Tales): Uh.
Rob: One of you is, like, werewolf by night before he transforms. And one of you is like, where Will finite. After he werewolf. There you go.
Jake (Spec Tales): Where Will?
Guido: Finite.
Jesús (Spec Tales): The thing is that Jake is werewolf finanite. His name is Jake. Right? When I was working with Jake, he's the werewolf, but I will take the werewolf by night. We talk about, uh, a bunch of comic book stuff on our podcast. Mainly, we collect grill tales. So what that means is a special comic book for everybody that's on that we get to interview, talk to, whether they're a creator or somebody from the comic community, just like yourselves. You guys have come on and gave us some great grill tell stories, which we really loved and we appreciate. Um I know I'm butchering it. Jake, you're the one who does this, so you want to go ahead and fill in the stuff that I missed?
Jake (Spec Tales): I thought you were doing great. Also, I wasn't enjoying watching you square at all. As Hazel said. Yeah. We are a comic book podcast, and every episode, the way I'd say it is we do three things on our show. We do recent pickups. So every week, we're going to talk about something that we recently read, collected. Uh, then next we do a grailtail.
Rob: Where we'll either have a guest or.
Jake (Spec Tales): We'Ll have a listeners submitted grailtail where people will tell us all about that one collectible, that one comic book that means more to them than anything else. And we ask this of everybody that comes on the show, whether they are other collectors like you guys, or if they're a comic book creator. So it's sometimes really fun to see what the creators that we love reading and watching mhm. We love getting them to tell us what their comic book rail is. And then we end every show with comic book speculation because Jesus and I actually really believe in helping the hobby pay for itself. It is comic books are not cheap. Collectibles are not cheap. And one of the things that we like to do is talk about certain books or collectibles that could help people pay for the collectibles they actually want. Uh, so I understand some people are like, oh, dirty flippers. No, that's not exactly at all. I mean, there's nothing wrong with saying that you like one thing more than another. And if that's one thing that you want, maybe getting a little bit of knowledge of what you could be selling to make the money to actually collect what you want, I don't see anything wrong with that.
Guido: I agree. And you need to exert more influence on that goal of your show, on me, because you've already exerted influence on me. As you know, at New York Comic Con this weekend, I got two more Slabs book updates. Right now, I'm three, and I was pretty anti slabs before you two came along. But what I don't do is I don't help the hobby paper itself.
Rob: The buying down.
Jake (Spec Tales): We can only lead you to water. We cannot force you to drink.
Rob: That's true.
Jesús (Spec Tales): It's tough. I think I've had that conversation with Jake tons of times where I, um, don't want to sell my first Blade, but Blade is not I don't know, I need my amazing Finance 15. So I think that's my M main focus. And then I'll go back to maybe trying to collect Blade. But it's hard. It's very hard to get rid of some of these cool books. Very different.
Jake (Spec Tales): Uh, yeah. And that's the thing. It's not easy. But the thing is, if you end up getting what you want, that's the whole goal of the grail. So those are the things that our show focuses on. We release every week. You can find us on Apple podcasts or anywhere you listen to podcasts Spectacles. We are a comic book podcast, and we always have a lot of really fun guests on, including Robin Guido. I believe you guys were on four weeks ago. Something like that. Something about a month ago. Uh, season two, at least within the last month. So at the very least, your listeners, go check them out on that episode because they really pull up the show.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Thank you.
Rob: Thank you.
Guido: Well, every Wednesday you guys are out and yeah, we're sure you're not going.
Jake (Spec Tales): To go on Monday. You guys are on Monday.
Rob: Yes. Well, thank you both for being here. And you mentioned Comic Con. So what else is new in our little neck of the multiverse?
Guido: Well, we just recorded two bonus episodes with our report, our halftime and our postcon reports for people who want to spend a few minutes with us. Quick episodes about the creators and panels and cosplay and everything we experienced. So you can listen to those. And then also, of course, we just launched our patron support last week on Coffee. You can go to Deerwatchers.com to join. And we have a spin off podcast Omniversity, um, that you can listen to as a supporter. And you can find out more online. And spectails also has a patreon, which I think I might have been the first person to do if I wasn't the first. I was very close and I'm proud of that. So you can support them and you can join us@dearwatchers.com. And.
Jake (Spec Tales): You were the first. I don't think we were quite your guys'first. We didn't make that cut, but we did get ourselves on that list.
Rob: Um, otherwise we were going to end this interview right now.
Jake (Spec Tales): We didn't get the link until after we signed up to be.
Rob: Hate to play over here.
Guido: Exactly.
Jake (Spec Tales): I'm really glad you took my advice. As far as I told you, you should do some special bonus episodes. Um updating, everybody on your time at New York comic Con. So thanks for taking my advice on this.
Guido: I do everything you tell me to. It's how we ended up with a tier called spectators in our patreon program. We can just take it from you.
Jake (Spec Tales): Yes. There is nothing wrong to nodding to your favorite podcast, uh, on your podcast, right?
Guido: It's true.
Rob: Yes. And if you're joining this podcast for the first time, here are the three sections of the show that Jake came up with and told us that we should. Those are origins of the story and what inspired this other reality. Exploring multiversey, we dive deeper into our alternate universe and pondering possibilities. We examine the impact and what's followed or coming in the future. And with that, dear watchers, it's a full moon. So welcome to episode 66 and let's check or should that be episode 666?
Jake (Spec Tales): Hahaha.
Rob: Uh, let's check out what's happening in the multiverse with today's alternate universe.
Guido: This is going to be a lot.
Rob: Today we are asking what if Marvel relaunched werewolf by night as werewolf by day yeah.
Guido: So this wild question is from an Earth with an actual number that someone assigned. Earth 200520, featured in a parody what if comic for Marvel. It's a single panel humor. Uh, I use humor in quotes page that we'll use as a way of exploring Werewolf by Night and his story and his recent Disney Plus special, mhm.
Rob: So before we get into the Omnibirse, um, let's talk a little bit about our backgrounds with werewolf finite. And hey Duce, I'm going to start with you because I remember an early episode of Spectacles that we were listening to. I think you had just acquired a whole big set of Werewolf by Night, and I wasn't super familiar with the title. I think this was well before the Disney Plus series had been announced. So what's your background with Werewolf by Night?
Jesús (Spec Tales): Well, for me, I've always liked these type of characters. Like I mentioned, blade Dracula, werewolf by night. And what I actually had was a tomb Dracula run that I got. But the gentleman liked anything that crossed over with Dracula or Blade. And so there's a bunch of crossover with Werewolf by Night. Some marble, two in ones, and then, um, some giantsized chillers and things like that with Werewolf, uh, by Night. So that's like, my background even before then was just enjoying the character, like in the character scene, what it was about. And it was interesting to me because there's him, there's also man, uh, wolf in Marvel. So I kind of like, get to see different, um, takes on the werewolf mythos. Um, that's just kind of my background with it. I've read the original ones. I'm looking at the 2021, and I haven't even read the 2020, wherewith by Night, even though I've heard that it's very good. But it's just been a favorite character of mine. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to pick up the Marvel spotlight, too, which is the first appearance of Jack, uh, Rosenwolf by Night. But I know Jake has one because he's going to talk about it and he's going to glow and he's going to say that he was on it before everybody else, which is not true, guys. It's not true. But I'll let him say he speak on that part.
Jake (Spec Tales): I guess I'll take the hand off.
Guido: Yeah.
Jake (Spec Tales): I do happen to own a 7.0 White Pages CGC copy of Werewolf by Night. I am proud of that. I got it. I don't know, uh, it's been almost two years now. Uh, it was long before anything was announced, and I was simply one of those guys that just said, wait, horror. Marvel did horror stuff? I'm definitely getting this right. I'm a much more horror comics, modern horror comics fan. That's what I read a lot of. But I've been delving into deeper into the comic books from the some pre code horror. Although I will say I stay a little bit away from that, just from the pricing standpoint. Uh, however, I bought that book, obviously, it was already encased, so I couldn't read it. Uh, but one of the things I did actually in preparation for the, uh, Moon Night series, everybody was getting super excited about Moon Night, and I decided before the Moon Night series came out, I like to read stuff that's adjacent to what's very popular. So everybody was getting really into the Moon Night books. I got into the original Werewolf by Night series. So I read, uh, it was only available digitally, by the way. I, uh, even went to my local comic shop and said, hey, do they have an omnibus? Do they have any sort of a collected works of all of the Werewolf By Night stuff? And he said, no, they used to, but now it's not available. It's out of print. You can't buy them anymore. So I ended up finding it online. I think it was through comics ology or Marvel's, uh, site, either one. But they do have a digital one that you can buy. And it collects everything from Marvel spotlight number two all the way through the end of the original Werewolf by Night run, which I can't remember how far it went up to anymore, to be honest. But, um, frankly, after like 38, 39, somewhere in that ballpark, it really falls off. Like legitimately falls off. Not enjoyable reading, in my opinion, however. So m I've read that and I read that probably January or maybe it was last year, actually. It could have been even winter of last year. So November or December. Anyway, that's my background.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Wow.
Rob: Gito, what about you? Because real experts here yeah, I know know, don't I? About that you both are putting us to shame because Guito, uh, you are probably such a comic expert, such a Marvel expert, but I don't think this is a character that you're super familiar with.
Guido: Not at all familiar, actually. So I knew Werewolf By Night existed, and that was really the extent of it until the 2020 series, which I was hearing such good stuff about as it started coming out. And I knew that it was also the start of Jake Gomez, a new character, being the werewolf. And I love Latinx. Uh, representation. And so I read that series, but I had no context beyond that series. And it got delayed during the pandemic and it was sort of coming out choppily. And so I never took it in. And it didn't send me to Werewolf by Night. And it's not because I didn't like it, it's just I don't remember it triggering something in me that was like, oh, let me go read everything else. And then this special got announced, and I just have had such a long reading list that I didn't go back and read anything until this episode was the first time that I read any Jack Russell Werewolf by Night. He also, like, disappeared from the Marvel universe, as far as my knowledge extends to him. He didn't show up in the events that I read or stuff like that. So I really knew nothing about him.
Rob: Yeah, for me, well, I have never read this before we read for this episode. So I am the most virgin blood. But I did know it's funny that, uh, we were talking about man, um, Wolf. Is that John Jameson? Is that JJ's son?
Jesús (Spec Tales): Uh, his son.
Jake (Spec Tales): Corps, look at you.
Rob: That character I knew really well. I mean, just being a Spiderman fan, I know the kind of the convoluted backstory with that character. So I was even surprised to know that there was another prominent werewolf character there. And probably, I'm going to say maybe the second tier character, just because Man Wolf has been in Spiderman and is a Spiderman villain and connected to a very major comic character in JJ and James way.
Jake (Spec Tales): So you're saying that Jack Russell is the secondary werewolf character?
Rob: I would think so.
Guido: Uh, you all don't.
Jake (Spec Tales): I agree.
Rob: No.
Jake (Spec Tales): Hey, it was really nice being here, guys. I got to go. How dare you disrespect Jack Russell like that? He's the original monster. Uh, actually, to be honest, I'm not sure which one came out first. I think it was marvel. Spotlight Two. Yeah. Probably only separated by just a couple of years.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Yeah, because I think, uh, two or three years.
Jake (Spec Tales): So I just personally think that at the time, Marvel, I felt like, did not know how to cross their horror series stuff, mhm with their superhero stuff. And therefore maybe they didn't see any conflict down the road as far as ManWolf versus where's that hiss.
Jesús (Spec Tales): It was the one year difference. Wow, that makes it even crazier.
Guido: But definitely, I have been reading the man thing omnibus, and you can tell, and you can even tell from this issue of World by Night, which we'll get into in a moment, that they did not intend for it to cross over with the superhero books. It was clearly meant to be a separate sort of horror universe, almost.
Jake (Spec Tales): M and maybe it is, but that's also the fun part of what Marvel is, what the MCU is doing now, crossing those universes. Mhm totally agree.
Rob: Yeah, well, we'll get more into that a little later. But for now, I think the moon is rising and we are transforming this introduction into origins of the story.
Guido: Right now on this very show, you're going to get the answer to all of your questions.
Rob: Our amazing story begins a few years ago, so we've mentioned it already. But we're going to start off with Marvel Spotlight volume One, issue number two, aka Marvel Spotlight on Werewolf by Night. And that is from February 1972. And the story is called Night of Full Moon, Night of Fear.
Guido: And it's conceived and plotted by Roy and Jean Thomas. The script, though, is by Jerry Conway, art by Mike Plugue, letters by John Costa, edited by Stan Lee. And we read it because it is the first Jack Russell, first Werewolf by Night appearance. And the only little bit of background context I have to add is you guys probably know better about where it situates in marvel's horror. But earlier in that year, tomb of Dracula starts, and then the next year Frankenstein starts. So this is definitely the moment when marvel's trying to pull in horror. And they're trying to do that clearly with the universal monsters at first. What did anyone think?
Jake (Spec Tales): Yeah. So my understanding of the scenario was in the was a little bit of a rush to the horror realm for the two major publishers. And I think that was in part because, um when did the code change? Jesus, the comic code.
Jesús (Spec Tales): It was right then, right around the 70s when they changed.
Jake (Spec Tales): I want to say it was in part because of the comic code adjusted. So they had a few more ability they had more abilities to bring horror into the mix. And I know a lot of the major horror publishers were gaining traction. So, uh, you could look to okay, so that would tim up about right. And I know in the had creepy and eerie. And there were some larger publishers, publishers that were taking money basically from marvel and DC. At a time when they were super successful. Therefore they thought to themselves, of course, with uh, the change in the code, they could actually dive into because creepy and eerie, those are magazines. So they had liberty set. But marvel also got into magazines as well. In fact, I don't know how far back. Well, no, it would have been the first one man thing was in the very first.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Savage tales.
Jake (Spec Tales): Savage tales. Thank you. The very first savage tales, which I also have a 6.0 white pages copy of, which is an awesome cover. Um, it's not even a man thing. It's a great book, but manthing is a part of it. But not exactly why you collect it. You collect it because of the COVID It's a gorgeous cover of a Conan, uh, the barbarian. And he's holding up a head, uh, that he had cut off. So that is my understanding of why horror kind of became a focus point of focus for marvel, because it's interesting.
Rob: Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Jesus. No, go ahead.
Rob: I was just going to say too, because in terms of larger horror context, I think this early 70s is a little bit of an interesting period. You had some kind of what we would call kind of elevated horror today, like with the omen and the exorcist kind of around this time. But like the creature features had largely gone away because you had the hammer movies that all kind of ended. And the two big werewolf movies, the howling and American werewolf in London both came out in 81. So about ten years after this debute. And we were just discussing ManWolf also debuting around this time. So it's interesting. I think you had seen horror moving away from these kind of old dark house werewolf and vampires and that kind of thing, had fallen out of favor in the mainstream film TV kind of world.
Jake (Spec Tales): Yes, I like the way you put that. Because like Rosemary's Baby, which would have been total fees, it was all elevated horror. Uh, and they were getting away from the camp here stuff, I suppose you could say.
Rob: And uh, the one big thing that was in that world was Dark Shadows, which was like on TV. And that was definitely kind of in the campy soap opera world very much kind of here around this time. So maybe that was part of the reason there was a werewolf on that show. But certainly, uh, not kind of in the more prestige, uh, kind of world.
Guido: It's funny though, that you both are talking about this quote unquote elevated horror and the movies that you're citing as being part of the culture. I actually see the influence of that on this Werewolf by Night issue. I hadn't really thought a lot about it, but I had seen it more because Marvel is my thing more than horror movies. I was thinking about the way that they took the approach to this probably in Conway's script to make it very character driven and very about like this character inner turmoil and his relationship dynamics to his family and the way socioeconomic class relates to that. And now that you're talking about those movies, I'm thinking, oh, maybe that's actually some of the influence too. If we take a universal monster, which is a very two dimensional, uh, campy depiction, though I love those movies. What do we do if we move them into this quote unquote elevated horror? Well, we have to give them a dilemma. We have to make it somewhat societal dilemma around them. So I don't know if anyone else thought about that.
Jake (Spec Tales): I agree with you completely. And I find that it's not the first time where there is the werewolf dilemma of the human versus the monster. But I think this book illustrates it quite well. And I could see how this book or this series, especially the Jack Russell character, really was very influential on the werewolf craze that happened in the early 80s. Mhm, that Rob was talking about earlier. Yeah, there's so many correlations and almost it starts to retread where I had actually, as I guess I said, I just read the book last year. So obviously I had seen those movies before reading. And I was actually going to bring up that because I had seen those movies in my head, I had to do the math on the time period. I was just like, oh, this book obviously came before the movie, so one influences the other. I know you guys talk about that a lot in your show as far as how these books and things influence what comes after or uh, maybe before it. So that was the only other thing I was going to point out was I really think that this more influenced what came after it, then maybe it got credit for initially.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Yeah. And to piggyback on what you guys are saying to as far as the interturmoil Marvel at this time, I already had a lot under. It's built with the Hulk monster M and darker, and then also with the thing, this man, this monster, and things of that nature. And then also by it staying separate from the superheroes. I think this was a gamble at the time, right? It was a calculated gamble of going into horror, trying to take that market and keeping it separated because they didn't know if it was going to succeed. So they also didn't want to kind of taint the superhero stuff if it was a bad thing. And little did they know that it was going to be a successful and influence pop culture and other movies and things of that nature going forward. Because they have a lot of, um, success with deep character, um, insights. Right. Instead of, like, you mentioned making them two dimensional, they put some real life turmoil for them that makes us want to like I hadn't read I read number the Marvel Spa number two, like, ten years ago. And at the time, I was like, okay. Because at that time, I was watching the newer what's the new movie franchise with the Death Dealers, where it's like, um, what's Kate Beckinsale, I think is the main underworld. Underworld, yeah. So I was watching it. I was into that a lot in the lore and all that. I was like, man, let me go see some comic book stuff of it. And that's when I went back and I had read it, but it didn't redo a lot at the time. But now reading it again, it's like, I want to continue reading it, right? I want to continue reading it and seeing what happens and seeing what goes on with these characters and how he ends up dealing with them. Because again, when he's in the werewolf form, he can't really control allies, just little snippets of stuff. So does he ever gain full control of that part of it?
Rob: And HeZeus you were mentioning the connection to the Hulk, which I didn't even think of, but I can totally see that connection there. And the thing that this actually reminded me the most of was the origin of Ghost Rider, which we've covered on, um, the show. But there's very similar lots of similarities there in terms of the family dynamic. So in the Ghost writer, his family, or I think is his adopted family. And there's kind of this dynamic there of the father kind of being a little abusive, and then he's turning into Ghostwriter and he's hiding it from his sister. So there's that kind of connection here. And I was just thinking I was, uh, looking it up, actually. And Ghostwriter premiered also in 1972, so this same year, and it shares two of its creators, roy thomas and Mike Plug. So there were definitely playing a lot with this same kind of thing. I think there's moments in this story where you could take out, um, Jack and put in Johnny and you would have almost the same exact story. Only one set at the circus and one set in Los Angeles slash a big dark house. It's a little unclear at times during this story.
Jake (Spec Tales): That's interesting that you point that out. The similarities between the characters and yeah, they both were, uh, released initially in Marvel Spotlight, uh, possibly because the writers knew the direction they wanted to go with the characters, but they maybe didn't know which characters were going to get latched onto by readers, which is the whole point of Marvel Spotlight. Right, hey, we're going to show you this small this character for a little bit, see how you guys like it, and then we'll decide if we want to do a full series. What they found out was the themes that they were working with obviously resonated well, because both of these characters went on to have successful runs and they, as you pointed out, very similar. They just different aesthetics. But, uh, the dynamics were very the same.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Yes, there's a lot of more spotlight, isn't there? Uh, the son of saying, which also kind of struggles with that stuff as well, with the family dynamic and M. Uh, I think there's I think Redwood came out in it too. I'm trying to remember all the number ones that came out in Marvel Spotlight. There was even some with moonlight, which it wasn't his first. He was actually in war with by night. But there was a good run of Moon Night in the Marvel Spotlight, uh, series. So, yeah, that's perfect thing with Jake said, where they're trying to figure out which ones are going to stick, which ones gravitate towards people, and Werewolf By Night was one of them for sure.
Guido: Well, you can tell too, what they're doing. And I hadn't thought about this as it being part of the spotlight, where they're trying to introduce things because they're opening a lot of doors in the plot. And you can see it because they're giving you they're not resolving everything. They're telling a bit of a whole story here. But there's so much more about his mother and his sister and, uh, then of course, his past, which his mother alludes to in a few panels briefly. And you want to know more about the father. So they do such a good job of creating opportunities for them to pull all these strands, which I'm imagining they do in the Werewolf by Night series then, ultimately, and that's what makes me want to read more, is all of those pieces where I'm like, wait, who was his father? There's got to be more to that story now, what's going on with his sister and all that stuff.
Jake (Spec Tales): I think you would enjoy, definitely, if you. Liked this first book. I think you would be intrigued to continue reading for a little while. The one problem I think the series does have is the back and forth. You can tell with the writers and the creators as far as how much horror to lean into with the character. And that's, I think, a common criticism for werewolf finanite as a character, because people come looking for a werewolf. Uh, and there's a lot more human than werewolf in some books or not enough. That's the kind of the turmoil. Uh, you can get one issue that is very horror driven and then another one that is very narrative and character driven, and sometimes it doesn't always balance. Right? Yeah, that's my take anyway. Yeah.
Rob: And I think you can see so many of those seeds going back to the Universal movies with Long Janey Jr. As Larry Talbot and stuff like that, where it's like, okay, how much of the human do we show? How much of the werewolf do we show in there was there was probably financial and makeup constraints that they had, but I think that's always the thing here. And also, like, how much of a villain does he get to be? Like, in both of those cases, we want the main character to be sympathetic, and we want them to be tortured, and maybe we feel sorry for them, but at the same time, they do need to kill innocent people to some extent, because otherwise they are just a superhero. We want them to have that monster quality.
Jake (Spec Tales): Could you please rob, when you say innocent people, can you use air quotes when you do that? I feel uncomfortable.
Guido: Well, especially in this, uh I don't know that anyone deserves to be murdered by a werewolf. But yeah, the guy is not.
Jake (Spec Tales): But.
Rob: There are other stories, though, right? I mean, like, when we hear the story of his father, I think his father has killed some innocent people. I guess it has to be part of it. And they do play with the innocence. In terms of, uh, in terms of, um, Jack's stepfather, I think it's right. We don't left a little unclear because the father, the stepfather, is upset that he's kind of orchestrated the mother's murder. But has he orchestrated that? It's a little unclear in a good way, that it does have that kind of cliffhanger, suspenseful ending, that it makes you want to read more.
Jake (Spec Tales): And I think that it truly, for most of the readers, and it's generally clear to me that Jack himself is a straight arrow. Like, he is trying to point in the right direction, uh, as an individual, he's trying to do the right thing, and that's why he is so sympathetic, uh, for the reader. But again, that's the turmoil. That's what everybody wants, because what you want is, in the end, you want the monster to recognize who he is, that he is a human. And, uh, that's what makes that dynamic so interesting. Because you know who he is when he's destroying innocent people, right.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Uh, for me, uh, I was going to ask if I was only one frustrated with him upholding that what did he call it? A vow to his dying mother. She didn't even know that she had been killed or set up to be killed. But then again, what Jake mentioned, that one of the things that was pointing, I guess for me and that issue is him saying if he does break that vow to her, what's the limit at that point? What is he going to stand up for if he doesn't stand up for, at the very least, his mother's dying wish. And I thought, okay, that makes sense. And that, to me, what made me want to continue to read it as well.
Rob: Well, yeah, I'm curious to check it out more, but, uh, for now I'm going to load up our shotgun with some silver bullets and shoot this eggman dead. But from its corpse will rise while exploring multiversity.
Guido: I am your guy. Through these vast new realities.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Follow me and ponder the question.
Guido: What if?
Rob: So today we are discussing kind of sort of what if? Marvel relaunched werewolf by night as werewolf by day and that is from Wah, volume one, issue number one from Marvel Comics from October 2005.
Guido: So this is written by Brian Michael Bendis, pencil by Jim McFood, who also did the inks, colored by Sean Struble, lettered by Chris Elliopolis, edited by Cbzbulski. It is one panel in a compilation issue which actually we covered not long ago. Another story from it in episode 61, a two page Fantastic Four story. What if they had made it to the moon? And the whole issue is all meant to be humorous? So, Jake and Jesus, do either of you want to describe the humor in this panel for anyone who hasn't seen it? What's going on here?
Jake (Spec Tales): Are you asking me? Is this like a Where's Waldo thing where I need to find.
Guido: Okay, approach it however you want.
Jake (Spec Tales): Hey Zeus, you probably have better eyesight than me. Did you catch where the humor is?
Jesús (Spec Tales): I mean, he's not wearing a shirt.
Guido: And he's in an office.
Jesús (Spec Tales): He'S wearing slacks.
Jake (Spec Tales): Situational humor. Did anybody else notice that the, uh, water cooler, there's ice in I think it's ice or there's floaties in the water cooler. I thought that was a strange addition. Who actually adds ice to these things?
Jesús (Spec Tales): This whole thing was I don't know. It is funny in how ridiculous it is to me. He's wearing a watch, no shirt. What is going on here?
Rob: So we should just read what it is. So Werewolf by Night, as you both are saying, he's shirtless but he's wearing a watch, he's got slacks, he's got shoes on, he's holding like a report in a manila envelope and something like that.
Guido: Report?
Rob: A tax report? Yeah. You've got a couple of coworkers who are dressed, uh, with suit and tie. There's a guy in the back who's saying, jack, could you do me a favor? Could you send an email to Supplies and let them know we're out of paper up here? And then Jack, werewolf by night says, no problem. So I guess it's yes.
Jake (Spec Tales): Right? Like, his fingers are like, yeah, no problem. He's snapping the guys.
Guido: Yeah, he's the cool guy in the office. He's got his World's Greatest dad mug.
Rob: It was a little wearable photo, though. On the mug, I might m have.
Jake (Spec Tales): Found the humor guys. I think I found it. Uh, on his desk, he has a shopping list. And on the shopping list, if I can zoom in here, it says human heart, dog food, chew toy, and blood, which they might have confused vampire with werewolf.
Guido: I agree. You need a human heart. Does the werewolf eat the heart?
Jake (Spec Tales): Where's that coming from?
Jesús (Spec Tales): And right next to it, there's a sticky note that says two plus four equals twelve.
Rob: Also.
Guido: There we found the funny part of this, whatever it is weird. I mean, this issue, uh, I don't like most of this issue, what it's weighted down by and I'll explain this in case this helps us understand this. It's weighted down by so many in jokes. You can tell it's writers making jokes to each other. And the problem as an audience member reading that is it's like either you get it and it's a little like, eye roll inducing, and you're like, oh, God, get over yourself at Brewbaker.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Um.
Guido: Or you're reading it and you're like, don't get this because I don't hang out with you guys. So how are you expecting to get this? So this might fall into that category where it's like, someone thought it was really funny. I don't understand why werewolf by day is even funny. Do people describe themselves as something by day? As, like, their job? I guess.
Rob: Yeah, I can see that you're, like, accounted by day, rock star by night. You know, that kind of, like, idea. So I could see that part of the phrase.
Guido: Yeah, now you say it like that. I hear it. It doesn't add.
Rob: But I do think, like, what you're saying, though, it does make sense, um, because there's a woman in it, too. And just the way she's dressed seems like it is incongruous with the rest. Because the two guys, you got a werewolf by night. He looks like himself, but he's got the slacks on, the shoes. The two guys are very office based. Kind of butted, uh, down shirts and the ties and, um whatnot. But then the woman is wearing, like, a very looks like a short leathered skirt and like, um, kneehigh leather boots. And she doesn't seem like she fits in with, like, the officey vibe.
Guido: You see Jane Lane a little Dario's best friend.
Rob: Oh, yeah. So I was curious, was she someone maybe in the Marvel office who they were referencing, because the other two guys are just very, uh, miltos kind of white guys working in an office and.
Guido: A mother kind of thing, which was probably everyone at Marvel.
Jake (Spec Tales): Yeah, well, I was going to wonder if they were the guy in the background. I don't know. He seems vague enough that he could be just about anybody, but there's a lot of facial features on the guy standing right next to Werewolf by Night. And even compared to her, she doesn't have I mean, she certainly has a unique look, but the facial features on the one guy next to Werewolf By, like it's almost like they spent all of their time drawing Werewolf by Night, and the guy standing next to him and everything else was drawn together a little bit more quickly because the details are not quite as good. I mean, hell, the sun appears to be a window. Outside, it looks more like a really crappy children's drawing. Uh, just to say. Yeah, they just need to make sure they prove that it was daytime.
Guido: With all the detail. He's carrying a folder that says Teeth. Like, I don't understand if that's also supposed to be funny, but I don't get that at all.
Jesús (Spec Tales): So what, rob and Gito?
Rob: Have they ever brought this concept back or humor concepts?
Guido: Oh, I thought you meant this concept of my day. Yeah, there was a whole series of Werewolf in the Office. Um, the parity issues, there are a few more. Like even during Secret wars there's one called Secret Wars Two and it's M Secret Wars to o. And that's during the 2015 Secret Wars, they did that. So they have done parity issues still over the years. This one is specifically what if questions. The parity issues are sometimes not what if based. This one Wahha huh. Is all what if questions. So the whole issue is either a single panel, single page, or, like, two page what if questions that are all meant to be funny.
Rob: We'll use some of the other ones.
Jake (Spec Tales): It didn't make me laugh. It didn't make me laugh now, but.
Rob: We'Ll probably use some more of them as an excuse to talk about some other obscure character.
Guido: And by the way, yeah, I should say it's the only what if question that has anything to do with wereolf by night. Of the, uh, probably 300 at this point what if questions that exist in some form in the Marvel universe, it's the only one that has to do with Werewolf by Night. Now, uh, there might be alternate universe werewolf by nights that exist, and we could talk about them one day, but there are no what if questions that have to do with werewolf by night. That's how we got here.
Jake (Spec Tales): With the same question what if werewolf by night was werewolf by day? Well, this is obviously attempting to take it in a humorous route, but just the idea of flipping the dynamic of he is a werewolf during the day and he is a man at night could be ah, a story for an issue.
Guido: Yeah.
Jake (Spec Tales): In a more serious tone.
Guido: Or you could have done something humorous with that. I would have liked to see, actually, what you just said made me more interested in what Werewolf by day's night is like than his day.
Jake (Spec Tales): It would have been hilarious if he would have just been like if they would have just drawn a guy sleeping in bed. Just, uh, a regular jack on the white jack at night. He just gets good, nice rest.
Guido: Exactly. See, there you go. His day is better than Brian Vendis. You are a better writer than vendors, Jake.
Jake (Spec Tales): Today, maybe.
Rob: Well, let's leave the Wahha here, polish up our bloodstones, and move into pondering possibilities. Will the future you describe be averted? So, Guido, what are we talking about for our pondering possibilities?
Guido: So this was really the reason for the episode. Was it's October. It's Halloween. And I knew Jake and Jesus relationship to Marvel horror. And I knew werewolf by night was coming out. And so I was like, all right, I'm going to go find what we can talk about so that we can get to the Werewolf by Night special that premiered on Disney Plus.
Rob: Yes. So that's what we're talking about.
Jake (Spec Tales): Were we supposed to watch that before coming?
Guido: Now you're about as funny as Brian Michael Bend is.
Jake (Spec Tales): I think I'm funny.
Jesús (Spec Tales): That's exactly what he says.
Rob: So, yeah, let's talk about it. This is Werewolf by Night on, uh, Disney Plus. Premiered in October 2022.
Guido: It was directed by Michael Diatino, written by Heather Quinn and Peter Cameron, executive produced by Kevin Feige, Stephen Bresard, Louis Despacito, Victoria Alonso, and Brad Winter Brown. And we all watched it. It just came out 48 hours before we're recording this.
Jake (Spec Tales): Yes, that is true.
Guido: So where do we begin?
Jake (Spec Tales): Where do we start?
Guido: Yeah. Well, let's start, I guess, with you two who had the knowledge going in of, uh, Werewolf by Night. Like, so either of you, like, what was your overall take? How'd you feel about it when it was over?
Rob: Uh, we should also say spoilers alert, right?
Jesús (Spec Tales): Yeah.
Rob: If you haven't watched by Night, uh, Disney Plus, uh, end the episode here and come back. But yeah, go ahead.
Jake (Spec Tales): Go listen to an episode of Spectacles. Come back to this one. I just want to start by saying that though I really enjoyed it and where they came in to this character, because they didn't do the origin. They didn't do an origin. There are multiple great characters they introduced in this, but they didn't bother boring everybody is probably the wrong phrase, but they didn't bother boring everybody with those details because there are monsters and monster hunters. And they just decided to bring them all together with the death of a very well known Marvel character. Uh, with bloodstone. Uh, yeah. Thank you. Uh, Ulysses bloodstone at the beginning, where you're like, oh, he's dead. Okay, uh, that's fine. I just wanted to see Elsa anyway. So we get all these characters in the same room, and we get the conclusion. Uh, I'm not going to spoil it all right from the get, but it wasn't long enough. I don't know if anybody else felt this. I could have done a full werewolf by night movie. They could have breathed a little bit more life into this thing. But I will say, the moments that we saw it looked like what we got in 52 minutes. Is that what it is? Yeah, right around 55 yeah, something around there. But what we got in those 55 minutes, or whatever it was, felt like the truncated, edited down version of a bigger movie, where they were just like, well, let's just cut out all of the fluffy stuff, and we'll just give you the hardcore, like, exactly what you need to know that happened in this movie. It was like the Cliff's Notes version of what could have been a bigger and more enjoyable film.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Well, I agreed to an extent, somewhat with Jake, but there's a lot of disagreement there. So I want to start before when I got the news that guy Garcia Bernard was cast as well by Night, and everyone thought it was going to be Jake Gomez, which it didn't. Ended up being Jacob's. But, um, just him being in there, I thought was really cool. He's a great actor. I've enjoyed a lot of these movies in the past. I don't want to look at it through the lens of what Jake is looking at it through, at least, uh, how I feel. He's saying, which is a big part of MCU, or how does it fit in? What I saw and what I felt is almost like a love letter to those old school monster movies, right? I mean, they did it in black and white. The bloodstone was red, which was like the only thing that was reading towards the end. You got some more color. And then also the way the effects were for The World by Night, which were harking back to how they were back in the day. It wasn't CGI. There was another character in there that was CGI. Spoiler, manthing. Uh, Ted, if you will. And I just thought it was really cool, man. Black and white. It didn't have to say a lot. We got a lot of fun. And isn't that a thing, too? Like people say all the time, you want to leave people wanting more, wanting more, wanting more. Everybody wanted more of this, right? We wanted more. But then at one point, is it too much? At one point is it, oh, they're doing an origin. So I just enjoyed it for what it was, a Halloween special. Uh, black and white, harkening back to the old monster thing. I feel that's what it was like, Marvel says, hey, we like this stuff. What can we do with our characters to kind of an homage to it? And I think this is what that was, and I really enjoyed it. I watched it twice since it came out. So that's my take.
Rob: Yeah, I think you both make really great points, and I think you're both kind of fitting at where I certainly came in. My initial feeling after I watched it was that I agree. I thought I was expertly done in terms of trying to replicate, um, the feel of the 1940s movies and then the Hammer films and the stuff like that. It was really well shot, and I really loved just the feel of it. Also had that kind of thing of Clue and any kind of old dog thing where you just put a bunch of weirdos together and they're going to kill each other, and kind of said from the start, uh, I did, though, want more. And it was interesting because I think usually mostly of the mindset, oh, that's too long. I mean, some of the movies, when they get into that two and a half hour mark, I'm like a little long. Um, some of the TV shows, um, actually Moon Night, I thought, you know what? They could have made this probably into a movie, and it would have been better than seven episode series or whatever for me. But for this one, I was like, I kind of wanted this to be, uh, a proper two hour movie. And they didn't really need to go into his origin, per se. But I think there could have been some things that they did play up a little bit.
Jake (Spec Tales): Yeah, they could this storyline, right? Like, this storyline could have been flushed out. Not necessarily, uh, origins, even. Um, but continue, Rob.
Rob: Sorry, I didn't no, and I think we're saying a little bit before we got into this, too, I would have loved I wish they hadn't actually had man thing in the trailer. And I wish that had been more of a surprise, because I think, for me, you're not going to get away. We're going to know that Jack is a werewolf, right? Because it's built into right in the name of the character. Because we can't get away with that. Maybe when we think, oh, there's a monster hunt going on, we think, oh, are they going to be hunting Jack? Um, but no. In fact, then there is, like, this man thing here and maybe kind of going a little bit deeper into the fear, which they didn't really touch on how he is killing them with the fear. Um, so, yeah, I think I did want more. But I see your point, too, where it's not a bad thing, necessarily, to leave people wanting more, which is what the original comment from 72 did that we just discussed.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Yeah. And real quick, too, I could say. Uh, a quick other thought. I think the MCU has kind of pigeonholed itself and that everything has to be part of the MCU, or what does it fit in? But there's so much lore. Like, look what they did. There's a monster hunters group out there. They've been hunting for however many centuries, and I want to know more about that. I don't even care if it has nothing to do with Kang or with Fantastic Four. I just want to see what those guys are doing. How did that happen? What's going to happen now? They don't have a leader. They do have a leader I want to see more of. That necessary. And I don't think I needed to see it in whatever special it was. But I get what you guys are saying, too, where it probably could have been another 2030 minutes, maybe, just to flesh out a little bit more stuff. And I also agree with you, Rob. I, uh, wish they wouldn't have shown Man Thing in the trailer, because that would have been such a cool surprise right there.
Jake (Spec Tales): Yeah. Which, honestly, if you think about it, it really was perhaps the only real surprise this episode, or whatever we're calling this, this special had to offer. Right. Uh, people love the MCU bringing little surprises and things like that to their movies, right? Oh, it was unexpected. Oh, tomorrow was in it. Right. They didn't tell anybody. That's cool. That's fun. Main thing was that for this and you're right, I think putting him in the trailer I wonder if they put him in the trailer simply because they weren't confident enough in just Jack Russell and Elsa Bloodstone selling this thing on its own. Which is interesting, because Man Thing isn't exactly a, uh, popular no, exactly.
Guido: When I brought this up last night, we were discussing with Elliot, actually, Robin, Elliot and me, and we were like, well, Man Things wouldn't bring an audience to the special that weren't already going to be there. So it's not clear why they exposed that he was in it.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Ah, he does have stuff to do with the multiverse. Right?
Guido: Right. So that could have generated interest in that nexus of all reality piece could have been at play. Well, it wasn't.
Jake (Spec Tales): Well, and I do want to bring that up, though. So the ties to the multiverse, uh, it's not a surprise. If you watch the trailers, you'll see this entire thing is in black and white outside of the bloodstone itself being red, which is also very cool. And the way that it shot it is very Hammer horror style. I really enjoyed the stylistic choices that they made when they created this thing. But the one thing that they do at the end, which I don't think is by accident, I think it's super symbolic. They bring everything into color for the very last moment that we see on screen, and that is Jack Russell and Ted or man thing, sharing coffee the morning after the events we watch. And it's all in color. So man thing is in color. Jack Russell is in color. Again, I don't know how else to describe it. It's a cute scene between the two, and they're just like, sitting there enjoying coffee, and they're laughing about something that man thinks we don't understand. I wish they could give him subtitles because I would love that. Uh, but why is it in color? Why was that the choice? And if you ask me, this was Marvel saying, uh, they made a love letter to Marvel Horror Werewolf by Night, where he came from, uh, a love story to the old horror callbacks, uh, that Werewolf by Night really was from. But the ending is in color because I think they're telling us, listen, these guys are in our world now. They're in our universe. I think that is they needed to establish because if it was all in black and white, I think then the idea that they are in their own universe and they are not going to ever cross over, I think that stands true. They brought them into color at the ending, I think to symbolize them, to show these two characters they're not going to stay black and white.
Guido: Mhm also was in color, too.
Jake (Spec Tales): That's true.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Yes, they did get color, but there was no like I'm trying to think back. There was nothing that told us what time frame this was. Right. There was no technology. Even the weapons were all old. So when could this have happened? How long ago?
Guido: There was a payphone behind them in the color scene. That's the only thing which, of course, could be then anywhere from probably the 1950s to today.
Rob: And there were some dates on the tomb I think we had.
Guido: Right.
Rob: But still, uh, it could not necessarily be in current or whatever it is.
Jake (Spec Tales): No. What's? The conversation between Manting and Jack Russell. Don't they talk about now? I wish I would have written it down. I believe they talk about something that puts them in the modern time because they say Sushi. Other than that, uh, well, I guess sushi isn't exactly modern, but they're talking some of the conversations they have, um, give them the appearance that they are in the modern age. Yeah, because they are talking about getting sushi and they are talking about and that seems out of place, uh, for them, outside of what would be modern day. Right. I know you could get sushi for the last 100 centuries or however long Japan's been doing it. But it wouldn't be common to be like, oh, yeah, man, let's go get Sushi around the corner.
Jesús (Spec Tales): They're cultured monsters. They're cultured monsters. Okay. They've been around for he, uh, has 100 bodies on them, Jake. So that could have been Japan, too.
Guido: I, uh, want to talk more about the character from your bulk perspective. Knowing the character, how did you feel about him? Did it feel like the werewolf by night? We just read from this issue and then from his own series. Did it feel like him?
Jake (Spec Tales): If you ask me, I think this character is somebody new. I think they're leaving the old Jack Russell behind. Uh, there are similarities, but, uh, in my opinion, I think this is some form of a crossover or connection. I don't know. Hazardous. Would you call it a compromise? Like they're trying to mesh the new and the old?
Jesús (Spec Tales): Yeah, I definitely think so, just because, uh, obviously the actor and then also the history that he talks about. But maybe they're picking and choosing what they're wanting to use because definitely whenever he says he's going to get transformed, he realizes that he can't control the monster. And so he tries to do everything possible to help Elsa so that she doesn't get killed by him, because he doesn't have control, which is a lot of what we read. And there is little glimmers and glimpses of control. And he smells her and tells her, don't break eye contact and stuff like that, so that he can try to control it, but there's no control there. I definitely think there's some similarities, but I also agree with Jake that I think it's a meshing or they're picking and choosing what they want, but I don't think it's the original original character. I definitely don't think it's that true to the character.
Rob: I really liked how he played the character, which was not he was not the snarky, marvel character that we see in Doctor Strange and Tony Stark and whatnot. Uh, I like this kind of befuddles meant in almost this apprehension that he kind of had throughout the episode and that he definitely felt a little bit like the kind of guy that just got plucked out of whatever scenario he was in and plucked into this insanity that he's around. And of course he knows what's happening, but you do get the sense, oh, he stolen this, um, he's stolen the talisman in order to get inside this inner circle here. And he is just kind of this very kind of almost a mild mannered person that is then within the craziness of these other hunters.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Yeah, it felt like he was just floating above it. All right. And also at the same time, it was interesting to me to see him interact with all the downed friends, basically, that he had that were on the wall as he was looking at them, because mhm, you can tell he had some sort of connection relationship with them. And that was also interesting to see. And how come he stayed during that time? Because, I mean, if it's one of us and you see a friend on the wall, you're going to react a certain way. Uh, so I just thought, yeah, I agree too. He was kind of floating to me above it and just being thrown. Into that. He did a good job of, as you mentioned, being a different character than what we're used to.
Jake (Spec Tales): I want to say, though, he didn't seem afraid, which I thought was, uh, a nice touch. The character didn't seem scared. It's a fine line to toe as far as an actor goes. He could have easily turned that meek, quiet character into a scared character. And he wasn't. He was always in the moment, he just seemed very mild mannered. Ah, like, just very calm. And, uh, I thought that was a great performance. Um, definitely a great performance.
Guido: Yeah, I agree with that. Are the relationships we're talking about, like, both potentially with the, uh, other monsters who have been downed and definitely with man things? Does that exist in his comic books? Does Jack have relationships to the other monsters in any of the stuff you've read of him?
Jake (Spec Tales): Ah, well, yeah, so Jack does, um, I mean, he exists in this monster world. Um, I want to say I don't know that I've ever seen him crossed with Bloodstones, though. I don't know. Uh.
Jesús (Spec Tales): I think he did, though, but when he was part of the team. What's that team that he's with? Uh, with Ghostwriter, the creature on the loose? Uh, I think he gets cross during that, but yeah, he's always coming into other characters runs, and they usually always fight first because they think of each other as enemies, and then they realize that they have something in common, however small it may be, or however slightly they might have been by the same person. And they end up becoming a team, including, um, Ghost Rider, and then also the other one. There's a couple of other ones that he has. Um, so, yeah, moon night. Yeah, there you go. When it comes off, moon Night. Um, so, yeah, there's a bunch of relationships that he has with a lot of these monsters, and that's why I want to see where this whole monster thing is. And, you know, I feel like it's almost like in John Wick, where they have that background of all that, the Assassins or whatever, the League of Assassins or whatever it's called. How do these monsters, like, how do they know each other? How do they come to be with each other? Where do they hang out? Where does Ted and where Night go? Get sushi at places. That's what I want to see more of. That's what I want to see explored. But yes, there's a lot of relationships there with Worldbut. He's a good character because he can't be held accountable for when he becomes a werewolf most of the time. So that always hijinks ensue, I guess.
Guido: Something I noticed, and I don't want to legitimize the what if at all, but I was struck mainly between the first issue and the Disney Plus special. But the fact that it's also true for the what if then needs to be mentioned. That class is a part of the story. Socioeconomics and wealth is a part of the story. And I found that really interesting. The other thing that I think is in both the origin issue and the Disney Plus, not in the what if is family dynamics are also a part of the story. But I was just really struck that all three of these stories we read today, even though they were not meant to be some, uh, continuous strand, like, sometimes what we cover is, but they all positioned Werewolf by Night's story as having something to do with wealth and access to wealth and socioeconomic class. So I don't know if that's a big core part of his Bronze Age comic story or if it's just a coincidence. Again, obviously the what if is just.
Jake (Spec Tales): A coincidence, but I guess I wouldn't say I don't know. Jack Russell is not a man of money ever. Right? Like, that was never a part of the character. But it's more I don't know. Uh, again, the series that as I remember it, which I will say, it's been a year since I've read and I've read a ton of stuff in between now and then. But as I recall, the series was much more the dynamic of the struggle between the man and the monster and then how that relates to his family. But it's very working class. Uh, that is definitely true of the character.
Guido: Yeah, but although, in the first comic, someone has money, like his stepfather or someone because he hires the shower.
Jake (Spec Tales): Uh, yes.
Guido: So that's what struck me, because in the Disney Plus special, again, clearly, the Bloodstones are meant to be quite wealthy, and you're dropping Werewolf by Night in that setting. And so I just was struck by that connection.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Yeah, they put that in there, possibly, right. To look back to the original storyline and where would be not having to be put into family and socioeconomic storyline. And I think when he's talking to Elsa in that chamber, he talks a little bit about stuff like that, where you think if you can fix one thing or something, it'll fix everything. Uh, as far as family goes, it says it's something to that extent to her and kind of trying to get through to her. That where she's at now, or what she did with her family, it's not going to fix, and it's not going to matter. It's more about what you do and the decisions you make. And I think that's why she was contemplating at the end, too, when she finally had the Bloodstone, where she was sitting down and felt like she was contemplating her next move with whatever she had experience with by Night. So I think it was very, um, purposeful to be done that way. And the Bloodstone, I think, is a really cool way for Marvel to explore more because they are a family. Right. There's lineage, right where you lease. And we just lost Ulysses to, uh, this show, which was funny. I mean, I just thought that was the funniest thing.
Guido: Oh, my God, it's so funny he did that. And when she said, he's rotting for you.
Rob: On that point, do you think he's really gone? I mean, I was wondering, if we don't know for sure to your point, would removing him and now also removing her stepmother, would that lose some of the family dynamic that we're talking about?
Guido: Well, except I think what Jesus just said made me think. Well, maybe because we don't know the MCU jack's origin, but if it matches the comic we read, then Hem and Elsa have that as a point of connection to each other. Have a murderous parent as a point of connection or murderous stepparent, or having lost a parent to an act of evil murder being similar with each other, too.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Uh, I would almost bet some money that he's going to come back through the Bloodstone to her in visions or talking to her, saying something like, whoever holds a Bloodstone can see or can talk to previous Bloodstone users or something of that nature to continue that to some extent. Probably.
Jake (Spec Tales): I would agree. If they bring the character back, uh, he's as important to the Bloodstone and the bloodstone stories as Iron Man. Robert Downey Jr. Tony Stark to Iron Man. Right. Yeah. But the idea that anybody like, if they bring up Iron Man, like, we're in Wakanda forever, we're going to see Iron, uh, heart, and the comparisons to Iron Man, they're going to be stated literally in the movie. And therefore, I don't think you can bring back Elsa without Ulysses following along in some way, shape, or form.
Guido: And they didn't show an actor, which gives them flexibility to cast someone. And when they do that that's true.
Jake (Spec Tales): That's very true.
Guido: Yeah.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Yeah.
Jake (Spec Tales): I liked it.
Guido: I did, too. And I liked it as an introduction to the character. For me, it makes me want more in the MCU. It makes me want to explore more in the comics. Yeah.
Jake (Spec Tales): Uh, it's not for children, if anybody.
Guido: No. The murders are gruesome the most intense. And I wonder if the black and white freedom up a little to have more blood because it doesn't read his blood, but even, like the knife in the skull in that one person. Really funny.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Yeah. He takes the arm off.
Jake (Spec Tales): Yeah. I don't know that I mean, it's online. It's a subscription, so I think they can have as much gore as they want. But it is still under the Disney Plus banner.
Guido: Yeah, exactly.
Jake (Spec Tales): Therefore they will probably but this is the most graphic thing I've seen on Disney Plus mhm.
Guido: Yeah.
Jake (Spec Tales): And they were swear words. They even swore what word? Uh, at the very end, she says, clean this shit up to the guy.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Oh, yeah, that's right. Fake Alfred. Yeah.
Guido: The butler. I do know. I know this wasn't on an elsa episode. We'll need to find another one. But I know her from both next wave and deadpool. And I am really excited for her because I loved both of those versions of her in the comics. So I'm excited.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what they do with her. The actress that they got, um, for her, she's really good. She was really good actress.
Rob: Uh, yeah, she's an Olivier Award winning actor. That's the Tony's over in the UK. Um, and Harriet Harris, who is the villain who was the villain in this, is a Tony Award winning actor. And actually one of the other, um, um, warriors is also a Tony Award nominee. So they really which warrior?
Guido: Um, the one who has his hand cut off.
Rob: Not that one.
Guido: Ah, guy with the beard.
Rob: Not the guy with the beard. The, uh, other guy. Barasso. Uh, but yeah, they know how to stack these. And the guy with a beard is actually like kurt Thatcher is like this fascinating guy. He is a special effects guy. He's worked with Henson for years. He actually co wrote, uh, Muppet Treasure island. And in a horror world. Just last year, he directed The Muppets Clinton Mansion, which is, again, another kind.
Guido: Of creepy world on Disney Plus.
Rob: On Disney Plus. He's in Spiderman homecoming. He's written from MST three K, like a fascinating guy. So they really filled this with people who, um, ah, fit the genre, know how to play big with these theater actors. I'm definitely interested in, uh, what Laura Donnelly does with the Elsa Bloodstone character.
Jesús (Spec Tales): Yeah, the stepmom on the first watch, I felt she was too much. But then on the second watch, I was like, okay. She did what needed to be done with that character because I couldn't see it being played any other way after seeing it the second time. So yeah, I guess maybe watch it twice too, if you feel that if you felt that from her. Because at first I was like, oh, come on. She's a little too over the top. But then after the second watch, I was like, there's no other way she could have played it. She did a great job with it.
Rob: Um, I'm going to say you two did a great job on this episode.
Guido: Tony Awards for both of you.
Jake (Spec Tales): Yes. Not that it's a competition, but I do think I maybe did a little.
Rob: Bit better than hate.
Guido: We can never get away from that competition. Uh, almost becoming endearing at this point. Jacob that's sort of how you work. You just rub people down until it becomes endearing.
Jesús (Spec Tales): He's playing that psychological thing where he just keeps putting it in people's head that he always wins. But I'm sitting on a text message here from Guido and Rob saying that I won. So.
Jake (Spec Tales): That'S because they don't have my cell phone number.
Guido: Well, thank you both so much for being here. Can you remind everyone again where to find you.
Jake (Spec Tales): Yeah, so you can listen to the Spectacles podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts. So itunes Spotify, if there's a place to listen, you can find us. Uh, you can also find us on Twitter, at spectailspod and on Instagram at Spectacles. Podcast have to pay extra for those.
Rob: Underscores, so use them and you can find us. Uh, also, wherever you listen to podcasts, you're listening to us right now, so you probably know where that is already. But you can also find us on Twitter at Dearwatchers and see a bunch of our photos from New York Comic Con on there. And also find us on our website, dearwatchers.com, where you can sign up to become a patron.
Guido: And our reading list for today is in the show Notes. Please leave a review wherever you're listening. We'll be back soon for another trip through the multiverse.
Rob: And in the meantime, in the words of Oatsu, keep pondering the possibilities.