Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

Welcome to Dear Watchers in Omniversal comic book podcast, where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

We are traveling with you through the stories and through the worlds that make up an omniverse of fictional realities we all love. And your watchers on this journey are me, Gito punk, I guess.

And me, Robbie Ramon.

Yeah, I was going to say I need more punk references in order to give myself a fun nickname for this. But I have a feeling you're going to give us those punk references that I need a, uh, little preview.

But before we get to that, on today's trip, Gito, what's new with us? This is it.

The next time you hear us, it'll be 100 standard episodes in as I mentioned last week, we did do some bonus episodes, so we're actually over 100. But in terms of our standard format, next week is 100. So we'll have some giveaways. We have lots of countdowns. We hope to have it all and just take a moment to celebrate the fun of triple digit episodes.

Yes. If he was still alive, we should have Willard Scott wish us a happy birthday.

I don't know what that means.

He used to wish all the Centarians centenarians or something a happy 100th birthday on the Today show every day.

Yeah, I guess it is our century birthday. We also just got our pro passes to New York Comic Con in October. And, uh, we're hoping to have more about New York Comic Con that we'll share, about our involvement, our attendance. And of course, we look forward to seeing everyone who's listening who's going there, as we did last year.

If you're planning on going because we'd love to meet you in real life in IRL, as the kids say.

I don't think that they say that anymore.

They don't say that anymore.

I don't think so. So I think that's all that's new. Uh, thanks for tuning in.

And if you're joining us, for the first time, we have three parts of our journey today. Origins of the story. What inspired this other reality? Exploring multiversity. We dive deeper into our alternate universe and pondering possibilities. We examine the impact and what's followed or coming in the future.

And remember, we want your reviews. We want more reviews. We would love triple digit number of reviews, but we're pretty far off from that. So please leave a review wherever you're listening. Send us messages on social media. Even though our goal was as much growth before 100 as we could achieve, we of course, want to keep growing beyond that. And you can help us do that.

And with that, dear watchers hey, ho. Let's go. And welcome to episode 99.

And let's I knew that one happening.

Ah. Uh, there you go. What's happening in the Omniverse with today's travels to an alternate universe. And today, before we take our trip dude, to answer is that Punk?

I wrote that. I know. That one was more, uh, surfer dude. But what do people call each other in punk? Not bro.

Well, there's so many different kinds of punk. That's the problem. So I don't know.

So anyway, what's the question on our journey today?

Our question is, what if Spiderman was in a punk band? Aka, what if Spider punk formed the Spider band to take on fascists?

This is Earth one three eight. Though a lot of Spider punk's action takes place on the six one six before we get to the one three eight. But our journey is to the one three eight today. And a little background in our episodes. We covered an alternate Spiderman on our very first episode. What a, uh, fun sort of anniversary moment. Also episodes 327-3657. And most recently just last week, episode 98, spiderman is in the air thanks to a little movie that we're going to talk about. So we have lots of Spider episodes out there. And you can go listen to our back catalog. But before we dive into this alternate universe, rob is going to tell us what punk is. And I'll share a bit about Spiderverse before we get in.

Yeah, well, I really got into punk music my freshman year of college when I, for the first time, had a computer all to myself and a Lime Wire account and a good internet. And it was just binging on all these different acts from the really getting to know that and meeting other people who were into the music. And living in New York City for the first time. One of the epicenters of punk.

And you do own two leather jackets. I'll let everyone know. I think those are kind of punk, right?

Pretty punk, yeah. And punk punpunck was first used, uh, in 1596 for a harlot or prostitute. And then it later became a queer prisoned term as well. It was used in literature. Hemingway used it in 1933. But in music, no one really knows where it was first used to describe music. People were using it back even in the about music. About music people would say, oh, that they have they're like, they're punks and stuff like that. But then it really became more used in the 1970s. Really a lot of these bands that were influenced by early rock and roll, the 50s, like Little Richard and the garage rock of, uh, the bands like Love and the Standels and those. And really, then you had the protopunk groups like New York Dolls and Patty Smith and the Dictators in New York. And in Detroit you had the MC Five and the Iggy and the Stooges. And then you had the real big what we known as punk in 1975 76. So that's the Ramons and Johnny Thunders in New York. And in London, the Sex Pistols and the Damned and the Clash and Guido. I was going to ask you, what do you think of when you think of punk music.

I don't know who sang Anarchy in the UK. Is that the Sex Pistols? So I guess I think of the Ramons and the Sex Pistols. I always think though, of the later punk, especially even the 90s resurgence of punk, I'd say involving, I don't know, lots of safety pins and anarchic, uh, political messages, especially when I was starting to engage my leftist politics also in New York. I think the presence of punk was clear to me, but musically I never really thought much of about it. I'd say it's the post punk new Wavy blondie, I feel like sometimes gets grouped in with punk.

Sure.

So that's the piece that I would know more.

The tricky thing is because you have bands like the Ramons who are playing loud and fast, but they're not at all political, they're not really aggressive. They're doing girl group harmonies and surf rock. And then you have the Sex Pistols. They're super political and aggressive, but they're not really playing super fast. And then I think, like you said, you have all those political groups like the Dead Kennedys and who are really being very anarchic, but then later you've got groups like Blink 182 who are just trying to have a good time.

Yeah. And pop punk, uh, Average Levine might even be pop punk. I don't know.

It really is this kind of intangible aesthetic, I think, that we put onto that word.

Well, that's how it's kind of queer too. Queer is basically just boundary breaking and defying and very hard to define. And punk feels the same way by its nature, not by the fact that it's overly complex or by the fact that no one's taken the time to define it. It's like, by its nature, it cannot be defined totally. It almost can only be defined by what it is, not just like queer.

And you always see a connection between queerness, like the New York Dolls and then later on with a band called the Screamers in La. Who were all queer members. So there's always that connection. And we've got so many subgenres and later locations. So, yeah, this would take a five hour documentary to really get into, at least.

But yeah. What would you say, though? Punk is like one sentence. What does punk represent? Or what isn't it? How would you define it?

I think it would be bare bones or stripped down because that was the thing. Punk doesn't you're not using a lot of chords, you're not adding a lot of embellishments on top. It's about just going back to that 50s rock and roll of we're just going to give you a blast, though, with an edge.

Because of course there's like, singer songwriter is stripped down too, sitting with a guitar.

But it's going to make you feel something in your bones as opposed to maybe even in your head. Although, of course, there's probably plenty of intellectual punks too.

And then of course, there's like emo punk, right?

Totally.

So you can't even separate emotion. Yeah, complicated. And we won't be able to answer it today, but that helps frame a little bit about, uh, our guy Hoby, who we're going to see in a little bit. But before we get to him, there's some background on Spiderverse because we did not read the whole Spiderverse event, but this is our first because this is our first trip through it. And we'll probably do many more episodes in the future that involve the Spiderverse because it's a huge thing and I look forward to pulling pieces of it out like we did here. So Spiderverse, when we're talking about it, is a 2014 crossover comic event, but its origin comes well before that. So, of course, you and I are both very familiar. And people our age and people of any age are very familiar with 1994 Spider Wars, which is the fifth season wrap up arc of the Spider Man animated series, which has a multiverse saving storyline. Includes creations for the show, like Man Spider, an iron spider, the scarlet Spider coming from the comics, a Spider octopus, an actor who's playing Spiderman. And it ends with Spiderman coming to our world, meeting Stan Lee, and then the series gets canceled. So that is definitely in the influence of this storyline. And then Dan's Slot. Go ahead.

I was going to say too around that time, too. While it's not multiversal, even the Clone Wars, that's got a Spider verse element, right? Because you've got all these different people. You've got the two clones and you've got Spider Man also Peter Parker dressing up like people like Ricochet and everything like that.

Yeah, and that definitely inspired the for sure. I bet that inspired the Spider War storyline because in the animated series, it actually is kicked off by a clone and then he goes to seek that out, and then it has Madame Webb and all that. So definitely the clone element in the story. And as I mentioned in our opening, our opening earlier, our first episode was Spiderman because the first what if is Spiderman. And there are a lot of what ifs, um, on Spiderman. So there's something about Spiderman, perhaps how iconic he is. And I think we'll get into that, especially in our third segment that really lends itself to variation, I guess, and twisting it around. So then Dan Slot, who is the architect of Spiderverse, ultimately, in 2010, had been one of the writers on the Spiderman Shattered Dimensions video game for PS Three. Wii Xbox 360. I played it on the PS Three because it teamed up spiderman 2099, Ultimate Spiderman and Six one six, Spiderman Prime. And so then a little more background in the comics. The Ultimate Spiderman title by Bendis introduces the Spiderverse concept, and that's really so that he can have Peter and Miles meet. And that shows up a few times, and then we get to the 2014 arc here. That's a 30 issue story, of course, with lots of tie ins where they fight this guy, Morland, he's one of the inheritors who feed off the spider totems and they travel the multiverse via the great web or the web of life and destiny. They live in LoomWorld. They live in LoomWorld. And they feed off of these Spider people. And so the Spiders have to unite and fight. And this story is most probably iconic for, I mean, so many things. But Spider Gwen, or Ghost Spider came out of this story, was created there, of course. Then we have a Spiderverse series, volume two, happening during Secret Wars. We have a Venom verse in 2018, we have Spider Get In, which is a proper sequel. And right now, there is the end of Spiderverse storyline happening. We're sort of toward the climax of it, but literally as we're recording this, the latest issue came out a few weeks ago of that storyline in its final act.

Last our last episode when we were also was it last episode, the black costume. M. And you also had characters there going to all the different people and collecting things and leeching their powers.

Yeah, I think that's a bit of a Sci-Fi trope.

It's all kind of connected there.

Yeah. But, uh, Spiderverse does it really well, which I think we'll get into in a moment because I love it. And then, of course, we have into the Spiderverse, the 2018 Sony animated film, loosely adapting some elements that are here. Although I think they're going to be adapting a lot more in the movie that's coming out the week that this episode is airing. So we'll talk about that later along with no Way Home, because that's a bit of a spiderverse. So there's some background on our Spider verses.

Well, let's get into our personal backgrounds with the Spiderverse and Spider Punk. How about yugido? What's your backgrounds there?

So other than the animated, I watched the animated series, so I've seen those episodes. I played that video game in 2010. But as our regular listeners know, Spiderman comics are not something I really ever read routinely until the last few years. And Spiderverse fell into that crack. So I only just read all of Spiderverse and Spider Get In when the omnibus came out, which was maybe two months ago. And I loved it. I loved it. Now, Spider Punk, I had read his miniseries because I had been hearing really good stuff about it. And I fell in love with it. I fell in love with Cody Ziggler, who wrote it. And I told you, you need to read this right away because it was so much fun. So all very recent, my experience with these things. How about you?

Well, with the Spiderverse, I didn't even really know it was a thing until I saw into the Spiderverse movie and then only afterwards read, oh, this was not just made for the movie. There was all this stuff happening. And then, of course, with no way home in there. But I'm not really super familiar with the Spiderverse. Today's was really my biggest diving into that. And with Spider Punk, yeah, as you said, you suggested I read it because for you, you would get more out of the superhero stuff, but I would get more out of some of the punk references that you would go we'll talk about those. Yes. I didn't even mention that I was in or in a punk band or punk album.

You'd call yourself punk.

I guess we use like I guess.

Punk is the best. Okay. And your music is now streaming online.

Yes, you can look, we're called the Black on Brown and you can find us on, uh, wherever good music is available. But yeah, a lot of those artists that are name checked here, I would listen to at different times. I love the two. But we'll get more into that in a bit. So let's spider getting on with the show with our first section, Origins of the Story.

Right now on this very show, you're.

Going to get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago. So first up we have Amazing Spiderman volume three, issue number ten from Marvel Comics. This is from January 2015, and it's entitled Spiderverse part Two superior Force. And then we also have Spiderverse Number Two from March 2015. Specifically the Antarctic Spiderman. Great power comes no future story, mini story in there.

So the Amazing Spiderman was written by Dan Slot penciled by Olivier Coopel inked by Wade Von Grabadger colored by Justin Ponzer lettered by Chris Eliopoulos edited by Nick Lowe The Spiderverse, which was an anthology sort of companion to the event. This is the story in it that gives the origin of what they call the anarchic Spiderman, spider Punk, written by Jed McKay, penciled by Sheldon Vella, who also does the inks, colors and letters and edited by Nick Lowe.

Real, uh, quick, I'll tell you this just a coincidence. There's, of course, a musician named Nick Lowe who's not really punk, but he's punk adjacent, but actually produced The Damned, who put out the very first punk single in the UK. So different.

Maybe that's why they had, uh, Marvel editor Nick Lowe do this specifically for that little Easter egg. Um, so we read these because it is the first appearance of Hoby Brown. Hobert Brown spider punk. From The Amazing Spider Man. And then his origin in Spiderverse Number Two and a little background on Spider Punk's origin. I gave the Spiderverse background earlier that Olivier came up with the design of Spider Punk to be the Spider UK. But then it turned out that as they were doing the story, slot said that Spider UK had to be part of the Captain Britain Corps and needed to therefore have the Union Jack. And so they decided olivier was a little bummed. He liked how London and Punk it was. But Dan Slot thought that the Spider Punk design was so good. He said, that's a great design. We'll totally use it. We're creating all these new Spidermen. So when we get to Doc Ox army, we'll put him there. He'll be one of Doc Ox's best henchmen and he'll be there all the time. We'll show you spider punk nonstop. I promise you. So it's a cool origin. That the design. I could totally see him being a British Spider Man.

It makes sense too, because going back to our punk conversation, us Punks were like leather jackets and jeans. It was the UK punks. All the Malcolm McLaren, they, uh all.

Ah, like Vivian Westwood hawks.

Yeah, Vivian Westwood. And the safety pins that you mentioned. So you can totally see that kind of connection and how Hoby looks here.

Yeah. So, uh, The Amazing Spiderman, of course, is barely a cameo like it is for so many of the Spider Men. But any reactions to that issue and his brief cameo introduction, gosh, yeah.

What does he have? A couple of lines. And he never takes his mask off in that first issue. So, uh, we don't even know who is under the mask. And overall, it was diving into the deep end of the pool here in this Spiderverse. It was a little hard for me to follow because everyone is wearing it's. One of my big pet peeves in the movies that everyone's constantly taking their masks off because why would they take their masks off in the middle of a fight? But here in the comics, everyone kept their masks on and had no idea which Spider Man. Which Spider Man, because they're all dressed very with slight variations, even Spider Punk. It's like if you don't catch them from the right angle, you don't know which one it is.

This is part of why reading the omnibus is the best experience for an event like this. Because for an event like this, if you like it, and I really liked it, you want all the tie ins because that's what's giving you the character moments. It's what's distinguishing them slightly and giving them personality. And then in this case, the Spiderverse anthology is giving you the origin. So let's jump to that. Uh, what do you think of his origin?

Well, this is fun to read because I only read this actually after I had read the Spider Punk miniseries. And I kind of assumed that the events that they're talking about at the beginning of Spider Punk actually might not have happened. That it was one of those things where they're just going to throw you into this alternate world and kind of give a summation. But not that these didn't actually occur, but in fact, we actually do see it. And it's super timely because I think M, there's a Make America Great again reference here.

So it's actually, Norman Osborne says, keep America strong for Oscorp when he's developed this Venom thing that he's looking to basically take over with.

And also a lot about the cops as well as the antagonist. So to me, I don't know what you thought, because you read a lot more Marvel than I do, but this seemed kind of for a company that's owned by Disney to be out there, right, in what it's depicting.

Well, I think that's one of the really cool things, and I don't want to jump too much into the miniseries that we're going to get into in our next segment. But one of the cool things yes, about this origin and Spider punk in general is they were totally okay with the fact that punk is often anti police, anti fascist. It is just squarely about power to the people and about diversity around race and sexuality and gender and smashing the systems of oppression. And I like that they lean into it. And I agree. It's bold, it's cool. Obviously, it's at the end of this origin, too. We discover that Hoby is black. We didn't know that until here. So it is cool that whoever I don't know if that was Jed McKay's decision or if Dan had already figured that out. I don't know who figured out that who Hoby was, uh, going to be, but it's just very cool, very powerful. And yeah, even though we know that, uh, police militarization of police, and particularly police violence against people of color has always been an issue, this being 2015, it's like pre the more modern moment that we're in over the last few years of Black Lives Matter. So it is cool that this is what it is.

But also at the same time, they're telling this very timely story, but they're also using these comic book tropes because the way they defeat this Venom, um, army is through a giant stack of amps and loud guitar music. The classic way to defeat Venom, which is sonically.

So it's, ah, not just so perfect.

It actually makes sense, story wise, why you have this punk rocker defeating this villain.

It's also the pacing and that moment are incredibly Scott Pilgrim to me, because the way the sound of the amps is in letters as it spreads, and you've got this big double page splash. So it felt very spot. Scott Pilgrim. Which I like. And then, of course, there's the really fun Spinal Tap. This is Spinal Tap reference in there where he says, uh, and 15,000 watts of punk rock from an army of amps set to eleven. That's just really great.

What did you think there in the climax? It actually ends with Hoby decapitating Norman's head with his guitar. So what do you think about this character actually killing the villain? Which is something Peter Parker, of course, would never do.

I think, again, it makes it punk, right? I think they're trying really hard here to make sure it feels punk all the time and doesn't feel like, derivative. I think the risk you run with, uh, the Spiderverse, with any multiverse is just derivative characters. Characters where it's like, who cares that this character is different or what makes them different? And this I think they're at every turn trying to make it punk, which is this smash the system I even love. On that page, you might not have gotten this reference, but on the page where he's decapitating him with his guitar, it has like a censored block over it and it says, this ain't Max Pal. And of course, Max was the adult imprint of Marvel Comics. So they're sort of saying, like, okay, we're not going to show you the blood. This ain't Max pal. So there's even a knowing wink to the fact that they're really pushing the boundaries here. But the art obviously being really dynamic and colorful, I think helps mitigate some of the way that this could be read as serious or heavy. So I love this introduction to him. It gives us a brief moment of Captain Anarchy, but we'll talk more about him in the miniseries because there's very little and I think those are the only characters it really introduces. So, yeah, let's get on.

Let's see. BGB moving on to our next segment, which is exploring multiversity.

I am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question, what if?

And today we are asking the question, what if Spiderman was in a punk band? Aka, what if Spider Punk formed the Spider band to take on fascists? And this is Spider Punk issues number one through five from Marvel Comics. This is from June to November 2022.

This is written by Cody Ziggler, penciled by Justin Mason, who did the inks, colored by Jim Carol.

Ah.

Limpetus lettered by Travis Lanham and edited by Danny Kazam and Nick Lowe. And instead of an in depth summary, I think for a few reasons, I'm going to share the solicitation. This is a recent book and I don't want to spoil every detail, although warning that we'll talk openly about some of the details. But I want people to be able to enjoy the story and the world is what's really interesting to us more than the story. So instead of a plot summary, let me give you the solicit for the trade paper back collecting all five issues. So Anarchy in the Spiderverse, hoby Brown is the head spiked Spider Punk, all set to protect Earth 138 with his axe in hand and his chaotic band of punk heroes backing him even though the Norman Osborne of Hoby's dimension is dead, will the chaos he created be too much for Spider Punk and the gang to handle? What secrets lie under the community center Spidey and his crew call home? And why is Taskmaster crashing the party to stump out Spider Punk? It all ties back to one thing and Hoby had better figure it out fast. It's time to take to the road in the Spider van. But Hoby and crew will soon end up joining Daredevil in the giant shadow of the kingpin. Prepare for an anarchic. Oh, no. Arachnid, look. I misread that adventure like you've never seen before. Arachnid and Anarchic are really close, uh, anagrams or whatever, of each other. So that's the solicit. Uh, again, we'll spoil some details, but, uh, I don't know where to start with this. I'm going to start overall, and I've said this already. I love this book. I loved it on my first reading. I loved it. Rereading it for this. I love this book. Do you have a general impression?

Uh uh, I loved it, too. But what do you love about it?

I think what was so cool and what I said to you when I told you you had to read it, was, I have no relationship to punk music. Punk rock. If there are Easter eggs, I don't get most of them. I think I get the real basic ones, the ones that are like the things everyone knows. But it has this first of all, the art is awesome. I think Justin Mason is incredible. I think it's in the world of Daniel Warren Johnson. It has that really edgy, uh, sketched outlook. The colors are bright and neon at times and just really, I think, show something musical. But then the pace of this story is so good, it just hits and it keeps going, keeps going, keeps going. It's fast, it's fun. And then the world I love the world, and I want to get into the characters we see and the politics of it. But it really hit me. And I now love, uh, Cody Ziggler and follow them because I just think this was an incredible story.

Well, I think the thing I loved the most about it is the tone throughout. I think the tone, to me, this is what I think of when I think of Spiderman. And Hoby has that sarcastic Peter Parker thing, which that's how he sounds to me. But also, Peter is usually isolated in many ways. And here you get the great aspect of having that team. I think the thing that we love about Tom Holland's interactions with MJ M and Ned in the movies, too, it's like giving.

That's true. This is a lot like that camaraderie.

And it's a lot of what we see in the MCU often, where you get a good team like the Guardians, where everyone's kind of playing at each other, and even the villains, too, that are having fun, that they're all feeling of the world. And everyone has that similar kind of tone throughout. So, to me, I thought that was great, and I agree. I think the art also just complements it because it gives it just enough of that kind of alt comic look that you would see from an. Indie book, but not going so far that we're moving too much out of the realm of superheroes.

Superheroes. Yeah, I agree completely. Exactly. And then I think what's cool and what the tone does well too, is in the amalgams. We're obsessed with amalgams and multiverses on the show, obviously. It's so fun, like, you talked about the villains and stuff. It's so fun to see who they're going to come up with and what their name is going to be and why. I mean, I love, first of all, the fact that the president is Ozzy Osborne, first of all, that's great. Um, but then I also love our introduction here to Riri and what a perfect name, Riot Hart, to take Iron Heart, Riri Williams and be able to use the Ri and call her Riot Heart. That should be so cool.

Character in the Six.

Maybe in her TV show they'll do it. Um, and yeah, just the attitude that all the characters have I think is great. And then I love Captain Anarchy being queer. I love him and his boyfriend. And I just love that he's this, uh, indigenous American, Native American, uh, Carl Morningdew, and that he's taken on this persona and that he's gay, I think is awesome.

And his boyfriend is Rick Jones. Right. I don't know.

He's just rick.

I want to say he's Rick Jones because I agree with the Hulk as well.

My guess is maybe even Marvel, uh, wouldn't let them say Rick Jones was gay in this world. But I agree.

When there's the Rick Jones fans out there, oh my gosh, they're going to riot.

Thinking of riots. Because you've got like Robbie Banner is the Hulk, which of course makes sense as a name because he's Robert Bruce Banner. So it makes sense that you'd be Robert Banner, robbie Banner. And then we have taskmaster. We have craven here. And he's kind of leading his own band of Craven and the Hunters.

He looks just like Zangif from Street Fighter.

That is true, right? Craven.

Always Russian.

Um, yes, craven is definitely I don't know if he's Russian or from some made up country or is Russian.

Right. So that that's what I'm thinking. Yeah. That could be why we get our, uh, other heroes. We get Ms. Marvel, Kamala Khan. Um, she's very similar, I think, to how we kind of picture her. But she's almost like this anti punk character here because everyone else has got that kind of that punk energy a bit. And she's the happy go lucky ray of sunshine kind of throughout, which is.

Yeah, but she's got, she has her flannel tied around her waist. She's got her shag haircut, and then she's got her brass knuckles that have biggin emblazed across them. So, uh, they gave her the right edge that she fits into this world for sure.

Totally. Yeah. But she's fun because she's, um, the most enthusiastic of the other ones have a little bit of that punk malaise there. The character that's probably maybe the most different is our Daredevil, who is awful.

Yeah. So we don't meet her until issue number three. But it is so cool to meet Mate Murdoch, a uh, Latina daredevil. But her powers are so perfect for Daredevil. And a band member.

Yes. So instead of Daredevil's batons, she is a drummer and she has drumsticks. So she can throw her drumsticks like Matt throws his batons. But then what was so cool, and we get it depicted in a few panels, is she will go up to the rooftop of a building and drum on the roof and through the vibrations of that, she can see inside the building, which is just like, wow, that is a perfect use of that power. And that's kind of going back to the prequel where we were saying, oh, they're using the sound to defeat Venom. Um, and it's punk rock that makes so much sense. This is again, it's not just something that's thrown on top of it. It makes complete sense for this world.

Yeah, absolutely. So that's one of the examples of the ways that this world is so well constructed and so clever. And in that same issue, you get like the band of Marauders, which are the villains. And they're sort of the, I guess, Asian villains because they are the combination of we have Sunfire and uh, we have Dawkin, Wolverine's Son, and we have Armor. So they sort of put these three Japanese characters together to create this gang of the Marauders. So the things that they did with these characters, the things that Cody Ziggler did, were just so clever. It's amazing.

Mhm, so I was going to talk about some of the references, that stuff that went over your head.

Let's see, you can test me when you tell your reference, I'll see if I know it or not.

So they put a lot in the first issue to kind of set the tone and then kind of pull back, which I think is very smart because you don't want to be reading these and go, uh, because it takes you out of it. Because it's from our world. Right. So I think they're very smart to put it in there. And in fact, it's the very first line of the book is I'm a streetwalk and cheetah with a heart full of napalm dito. Do you know what that's, um, from?

Not a clue.

That is from the song Search and Destroy by Iggy and the Stooges. So we get that. We also get, um, captain Anarchy and Spider Punk getting together to face, uh, Craven. And they say kick out the jams bleep. Do you know what that one's from?

No. What's the Bleep supposed to be?

Oh, it's mother effort. Uh uh. That's the MC five. And then they also in that issue, they say Nazi punks can bleep off. And do you know that reference? Either. No, that's the dead Kennedy. So we're going a little later. And then there's a bunch that they scatter throughout. Uh, there's like, Born to Lose, which is Johnny Thunder song. But then visually, the other character who you mentioned a little bit, but who I just love, is Taskmaster. So they put the S's with dollar signs to kind of drive home the yeah.

What's the deal with that?

I m think it's capital.

Oh, you think it's that it's not? Well, yeah. And they talk about, like, gentrification and how he's trying to make everything but.

Then his look so he's got the Castmaster skull, but then he's got this long, big black piece of hair in front of his face. And do you know that reference m Little Richard? Not quite, but they call it a death lock. And that's the misfits look.

I just thought that was a cloak.

Oh, no, it's his hair. So it's like, very only the basis for the Misfits still to this day has this and like, the Misfits from Lode, New Jersey, and here they have Taskmasters speak very much like it's all you guys. And so it's very, like what you.

Well, I guess and punk is, like, very New York. I mean, even though there's La punk and there's London punk, there is something maybe origination that you imagine a New York sound.

Yeah. Uh, those are some of the references. I'm sure there's many more that I'm not pointing out here, but it's definitely fun if you know that. But like you said, gito. It's like, if you don't know those genres of music or those references, it doesn't really matter because you can just enjoy the story. These are just little Easter eggs sprinkled throughout.

Yeah, well, when they finally get into the Spider van, which there are lots of Spider Man cartoon theme, uh, references. Spiderman. Spiderman. And it was really fun to see that, having just, uh, written a book about Spiderman's technology that'll be out this fall. Um, it's fun. At the end of that one, they say, hey, ho, let's go. I know that one. Isn't that the Ramons?

That's the Ramons? Yeah.

There you go.

Got that one.

I knew that one.

Uh, even say like, 1234, which is like the Ramon count off there. And of course, the classic thing of driving around in a van. Very punk rock. Very budget rock there, too.

Yeah. So, again, I don't want to spoil too much about the climax of this series and what happens, but one thing I do want to mention in the final issue is there is a six page spread. It is so cool. In fact, in the back in the letters page of that final issue, they show you some of the sketches and designs because it is just so cool. You have three double page spreads showing one battle scene horizontally. And it's just such a cool, again, to keep that momentum, which makes it work for a music punk. You were even talking about the tempo and the aggression and the edge in your music background. And I think that some of what they translated just brilliantly to the comic book medium here. By having this six page panel, it's just like boom, boom, boom. And you're moving through the battle.

And it's today sometimes five issues for me can take quite a while, but it just went super quick. I remember reading it for the first time and going, oh, my gosh, I've already finished it.

Yeah. So I don't have anything else to say. But, uh, we have seen Spider Punk in other stuff. We have gotten little teeny tiny glimpses of Earth 138. But before we move on, do you want more Earth 138? Would you consume more stories on Earth 138?

Totally. Because I'd love to see what some of the other characters in the Spider Man world are. Punkerized like venomized punkerized. Yeah. You've got Doc OC, you've got mysterio all these great characters that it would be great to see. Oh, what is the spin here that we're going to see?

Yeah. Oh, I agree. Especially one thing that I think is cool here and makes me definitely want more and hopeful for more is it's so cool that I love Jed McKay's five six page story, intro, does all the same stuff, and then Cody Ziggler and Justin Mason do it just as well, maybe even better. But what that shows to me is that the right writer and artist can do this sometimes a really well constructed world, and especially when the art hits, it feels like it's a, uh, unique quality of that team. But in this case, it makes me hopeful. Like, I mean, I would love Cody and Justin to step in and do another series, but there might be other people who have stories to tell in this world. And with the right people, you can keep telling awesome stories in this world.

Well, it's like we said in the beginning, there's no one way to be punk.

So there's no one way to be Spider Punk either.

Exactly. Well, we've used up two of our chords, but we've got a third chord left to play and it's, hey, ho, let's go pondering possibilities. Will the future you describe be averted? Diverted averted? So, Gito, what are we talking about for our pondering possibilities?

Well, let's talk about other media because I want to talk Spider verses. I want to talk into the Spiderverse a little bit. I want to speculate on across the Spiderverse, we are seeing it opening night Thursday on a gigantic IMAX screen. I think one of the biggest in the world. And that is the way to see it, I am sure. I can't wait. But I just want to talk about Spider Man's multiplicity moving forward because, uh, Spiderman no Way home. Of course, being an example of that, two quick Spider Punk things he does make a cameo appearance in the ultimate Spider Man cartoon. We did not watch it for this episode. It's the Return to the Spiderverse Part Four episode. He's voiced by Drake Bell, and he is white and speaks with a cockney accent. So different. Let's assume that's not even Hoby.

Um, we can assume that. Yes.

Uh, but Hoby is set to appear in across the Spiderverse, voiced by Danielle Kaluya. Not a spoiler that's out there. You and I avoid spoilers. We haven't even really watched the trailer to this movie. So I don't know how big a role he's going to play.

But Daniel is British, even though we never really hear him use his British accent in movies. I wonder if he would be a British Hoby then. Do we?

It's possible. No idea. Yeah, no idea. I don't even know if you hear him talk. I have absolutely no idea. Um, but I think it is just so cool. I can't wait to see him. I really can't wait to see him. I don't know how big a, uh, storyline he's going to have, but with how much I loved into the Spiderverse, I think you did too. And I think into the Spiderverse did such cool stuff with each character it brought in. It really made sure that when Spiderman Noir is there, when Spiderham is there, that you feel them, you feel who they are. The tone shifts, the animation, everything about it shifts. So I have no doubt that Spider Punk is going to be just as cool. And I can't wait for that.

Yeah, it's funny that you said back in the beginning of this conversation or this episode that Spider Man really has all these multiple multiverses and the clones and everything. Because at the end of the day, he's not a character I feel like you would first think of that. Like the Fantastic Four, they're jumping to all these other worlds, right? And the X Men also are in outer space and all this other stuff. But Spiderman is peter Parker is this young guy who's been bitten by a spider living in New York. To me, he's not the character that I would first think that would have all these other versions.

I don't totally have an explanation why either. I think a few things. I think one, it has to do, obviously, with his completely iconic status. So he's up there in the world of fictional characters with Mickey Mouse and Superman. And of course, there are variants on Superman, but not quite as many. And certainly not as many that we recognize. They've sort of leaned into it over the last maybe even 1015 years. We have Valzad, um, known as in colloquially the Black Superman. And there's been that movie in development for that, but there certainly aren't the proliferation. And on that end, I think it might be because Spider Man wears a mask. M. So you actually, like, you were struggling with in Spiderverse you can have a ton of different people who are Spider Man. And even though the costumes are slight variations on each other, they all look like the Spider Man. You know, even though some of them are Gwen Stacy, some of them one of them is Uncle Ben, one of them is a black punk kid, some of them are robots, some of them are young Japanese girls. You have so many different Spider Men, but they all look like Spiderman in some way. They sort of evoke spiderman. And I think that's because of the costume, I think that's where, like Superman, it's a little harder to do that with. You could have countless variations, but as soon as it's a woman, as soon as it's person of color, as soon as it's an alien, you would recognize that it's not Superman. So I wonder if that's part of.

Why I think that's true.

Yeah, the other thing is his origin is so easily turned into something fun. And maybe this is true of Superman and other characters. But even Hoby, we actually didn't talk about Hoby's origin. He's a homeless teenager and a spider that was irradiated because of toxic waste that Osborne's company has dumped bites him. So you get the core spiderman origin, but you can transpose it to what would make him punk. He's a homeless teenager living in an alley, and it's the fascist corporation that's polluting the environment that causes this to happen. So you can play with that origin quite easily, I think. And that might be another reason that we have so many and I guess.

Also thinking that he is a solo character like the other examples I mentioned are Fantastic Four, X Men. Those are groups. So there's all these group dynamics at play. Maybe it's a little easier to have this one character who you can kind of just throw into this other situation with different versions of him or herself.

Mhm, and that's even why I think in the comics, if you look at the comics, like, Ben Riley was Spiderman for a long time, dr. Octopus was Spiderman for a long time. So because he's the solo character, you can swap him out in a way and not disrupt everything. Whereas, yeah, if someone else is the Phoenix on the X Men, it shifts the whole team dynamic. It changes everything to have someone else step into that role. So, yeah, I think you're right about that. Um, so what are you excited about in terms of Spider punk and just in general for across the spiderverse?

Uh, yeah, I'd love to see the character get some great screen time in the new film. I know there's a whole bunch of other Spider Man. I know there's an India Spider Man and lots of other folks too. So I don't know how much screen time they will all uh I am worried about that.

I agree, that does worry me. But I trust them and then I.

Think that franchise, especially being an animated franchise, too, has such strong potential for spin offs, too. I think, um, so many of us would love to see, like, a Spider Ham spin off and settle in that world, or Spider Noir with Nicholas Cage and how fun would that be. And I think Spider Punk is a perfect example. Why don't you even you could even adapt this five issue series into a tight 90 minutes movie, and that would be a lot of fun.

Yeah, I agree. Uh, I think I hadn't really thought about it that way, but thinking about DC's animated proliferation, that they have all these animated movies where then they have TV shows and they don't have to be in the same universe, and they all tell really cool stories and they get to do different stuff. Some of them are even R rated. That's a fun direction for Sony to go in with the fact that they still own a lot of this IP. I think it'd be really cool if they did a lot of animated stuff with it. So maybe that'll happen after, because this is one of two movies that we're getting. We already know there are two more coming, this one and another one. So I think they were in production together. I think they're going to be direct sequels. So maybe out of that, we will get a bunch of spin offs and small pieces.

It's fun because the tone, too, is I would say it's like a PG 13 tone to me. So it's fun because it's not for children.

Spider punk. Or into the spiderverse spider punk.

So I don't think it's for children is the way that into the Spiderverse is, but it's not also like when we have those oh, uh, it's rated R, like The Harley Quinn Show or some other things where it's like, okay, this is definitely just for adults. I think it bridges you so you could be an older kid or a kid that's okay with somebody that's got the cool, punk parents that you can but at the same time, yeah, I think it walks that fine line, and that's just something we don't see too much in animation in general.

Yeah, that is true. That's a good point. I'm trying to think of another example, but you're right. Like Harley or the Killing Joke. Animated movie. Those are really squarely for adults. Uh, stuff maybe you and I don't watch. Like, is Rick and Morty maybe in this category? That might be in this category. I don't think they like, curse on Rick and Morty, but it's also but I don't know. We've never watched it.

I know there's lots of multiverses there, too. We'll cover that as well. I'm super looking forward to this. And then maybe we'll see. I mean, I don't know if we'll be done seeing multiverses in live action. Spider man as well, since it was, what, the third highest grossing film of all time.

Yeah, I agree. And I think we talked about this on some episode at some point while you and I didn't love that movie, and I think it was weighted down by some of its fan service and nostalgia, I do wonder what a live action Spiderverse would actually be like if they were to actually go into new alternate characters. Uh, if Spider punk were to be on screen, what would that be like? How would Tom Holland play with that? How would the writers play with that? Would it work? Would it not work? I don't know. I'm interested. And I do wonder if we'll go there. Obviously, I don't think they'll replicate the Sony films, the animated films. I think they'll do something different. But there is a ton of potential with so many variants in the comics.

And I think this is also it's a great way to bring in diversity into your casting and into the comics without upsetting the fans that don't want to see other things changed. But, yeah, you can have this hugely diverse group of Spider men and still have Peter Parker be your cisgender white guy there so everyone could be happy. This is a punk. Everyone's happy.

Exactly. Fascists and anti fascists alike get to enjoy that. All right, well, that is a ah wrap. Dear Watchers spider people, all you beautiful punks, thank you for listening. Uh, make sure you keep listening because we are hitting that milestone next week. But in the meantime, I have been.

Gito and I have been rob.

The reading list is in the show notes. You can follow us on all social media at dear watchers.

Leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts and M. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse, our hundredth trip.

In the meantime, in the words of Uatu, keep pondering the Spider possibilities.