Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

Rob: Welcome to Dear Watchers in Omniversal comic Book podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.
Guido: We are traveling with you through the stories and the worlds that make up the omniverse of fictional reality we all love. And your watchers on this journey are me Keto, composite Keto. I'll be composite keto. Today.
Rob: It and I'll be composite Rob, I guess.
Guido: Did I steal your thunder? Is that what's happening?
Rob: No, I didn't think of it.
Guido: You just didn't have an idea.
Rob: I was going to say your young ward, but that sounded creepy. But before we get into this week's episode, uh, I think there's someone else on this call. He is one of the two co hosts of the comic book podcast that goes deep into comics every week. Wait a second. He's like us but not us. It's like Cal l landed in Gotham and became Bruce Wayne. It's Lance from Comic Book Keepers. Hello, Lance. Hi, Lance.
Lance: Rabbi. Very excited to welcome. Thank you. I was trying to think of a fun name to call myself also, but I was like, oh, I'll call myself like another podcaster's name because we're talking about one character trying to be like another character that's just going to confuse everyone way too much.
Guido: Exactly. It's so, uh, great to have you. Comic Bookkeepers, for our listeners Who Don't Know is an, uh, amazing weekly podcast that does an analyses sort of alternates between diving into events or issues, crossover stories alternating with characters and great overviews of characters, what to read and who they are usually timed with. Any media that's coming out last week's was Shazam, so everyone should go listen to your deep dive into Shazam and then also some interviews, which you were telling us about some exciting interviews you have coming up. So love the show and I'm so glad you're here. It feels like you've been here before, but that's because we joined you on an episode.
Lance: Yes, that was a lot of fun. One of the coolest comic, uh, book crossovers there's ever been. And it was super fun time getting to dive into all of the different intricacies of that story.
Rob: With YouTube, she didn't give us as much homework as we sometimes give our. So that was very appreciated.
Lance: But you find the most interesting, connected stories to the main topic is the thing we tend to go with what tends to be the most enjoyed, the most liked, or the stories that we enjoy the most, whereas you two are able to find these. Okay, we have this story in mind. What other media could there possibly be that is kind of on the fringes of relation to this story? And it's always so interesting. So I'm excited to finally be on your show.
Guido: Thank you. Well, you're welcome anytime. And thank you for that. It's one of my favorite things, is digging in and trying to figure out what's a good connection. And today, as you both know I focused on the fun mhm.
Rob: And before we jump into today's travel, itinerary Gito. What's new in our little section of the multiverse?
Guido: Well, we haven't seen Shazam Two yet, but we had a lot of fun with last week's episode really strange Atomic War episode. So check out last week if you haven't listened yet. We are just now getting ready to start posting new Omniversity um, Episodes, our spin off podcast, uh, exclusive to patrons still in our promethea book club for a bit. And in fact, our special guest today recently became a supporter. Lance, thank you so very much. Uh, it's not why we had you on, but thank you. We're happy to have people pay their way, too.
Rob: Exactly. That's a new business model right there.
Guido: Pay to be on.
Rob: Exactly. If you are joining us for the first time, we have three sections of our travels today. Origins of the story. What inspired this other reality? Exploring multiversity. We dive deeper into our alternate universe and pondering possibilities. We examine the impact and what's followed or coming in the future.
Guido: And remember, your support matters. You can leave us a review, send us a message on social media. Any sharing that you do helps us grow.
Rob: And with that, dear Watchers, welcome to episode 89, and let's check out what's happening in the Omniverse with today's travels to an alternate universe. Opening up our travel brochure today, maybe from some place called Krypton OOH, we'll see. Our question in our alternate universe is, what if Superman's rocket from Krypton landed in Gotham and he became Bruce Wayne, aka Batman?
Guido: So this DC Universe alternate Earth has no designation. It comes to us from a classic Elseworld's tale. And we'll get into the background on the issue, the question, the creators, and of course, the story once we arrive to our alternate universe. But first, Lance, you chose this issue, and you've been waiting patiently to join us to cover it. So why did you choose this issue? Or what's your connection to this issue?
Lance: I found this issue very early on when I started getting back into collecting. I love the weird crossovers, which is why I probably enjoy your guys'show so much, because you get into the weird storylines. But I looked at this issue and it looked like Batman, but it had Superman at the top. And if you look at the imagery, you literally have the Bat symbol inside of Superman's shaped logo on the chess piece. And my favorite Batman costume design has always been the gray and navy blue. It stands out having, like, the yellow Bat belt. Having the yellow logo on the chest aesthetically was just very appealing to me. So I snagged that up very early on when I found it, and I honestly really only skimmed through it when I read it initially. And so, uh, when you asked what did I want to cover on the show, I knew I wanted to go into a further deep dive into reading the story and learning more about it. So I chose it kind of with ulterior motives to actually continue to read the things that are already in my collection. Uh, but it's just one of those things that no matter how many times I look at it, it is one of my favorite comic book covers, period. Like the Batman no open mouth part of the mask where it's just covered, which they now use in a different Batman, uh, storyline as well. But this was the first time I've ever seen something like that. And I just gravitated towards it.
Guido: Yeah, it is a great design.
Lance: Are, uh, we frozen again?
Guido: I just discovered in some of the research I was doing that there was a McFarland Toys of this design last year. So I don't know if you knew that, but now you're going to have to track it down.
Lance: Yeah, I did not know that. So thanks for taking more money out of my wallet.
Guido: Yeah, I was surprised I had, uh, only just discovered that today when I was putting some stuff together because it is a really cool design and it's subtle. But those differences that you're speaking to are important with the mixing of the iconography.
Rob: And speaking of mixing and matching, this is a crossover episode today. So let's talk a little bit about our backgrounds with Batman and Superman stories or crossovers. So faster than a speeding lance, why don't you go first?
Lance: What's your background with Batman and Superman?
Rob: Yeah, with Batman and Superman in general. And then anytime that they might have met up or battled or anything like that.
Lance: Yeah, I am a big fan of crossovers. So another, uh, book I have in my collection that I considered choosing to be the issue that we were going to cover today was that Batman, Superman, Predators versus Aliens. Huge, big ol crossover. Because I love getting into like, whenever Predator and Alien are involved with superhero fights, I'm there for it. But growing up, Batman for me was Batman the Animated Series. Superman The Animated Series. And then, of course, Justice League and Justice League Unlimited. That was it for me. That is like pinnacle animation. The stories that they told there were always phenomenal. And I actually just talked about this on an episode that I just recorded, uh, with Zach from the comics that we love, that episode we are covering Booster Gold. And I brought up how there's so many things in Justice League and Justice League Unlimited that flew over my head as a kid and re watching it. There's so many powerful moments thrown in there. And just having Batman and Superman being these wise, uh, influencers on the other heroes is always it was so interesting to see. And just relive going through a rewatch.
Guido: Yeah, that's really fun. That show I only discovered later, I don't know, maybe 15 years ago. And I never watched the whole series start to finish. I'd like to. And you're making me think now is the time.
Lance: It's the time.
Rob: It's your spring break, Guido. So I'm sure you're going to find true watching. And what about you, Guido? Batman. We've, of course, talked about our backgrounds with those characters before on this show, but specifically in terms of crossovers or times that they've met up, battled, of course they've been friends. Frenemies so what's your background with them there?
Guido: So I read a lot of the Superman Batman title that was coming out about 2025 years ago, which was a pretty seminal run. It had a lot of really important stuff in it. I read it because it reintroduced supergirl for the first time in many years, and it was doing a lot of cool stuff like that. So I've read their relationship in that way. But having not read a lot of silver age or bronze age DC, I hadn't read any of the early stuff. When they cross over any World's Finest, I didn't really read. Nowadays, I read any of that. So I'm reading the current run of world's finest. And I read the recent volumes of Batman, Superman, or Superman, Batman? When they alternate the titles, I'd say I'm moderately familiar with them as characters that are linked, but I haven't read too much that I think explores the meaning of their relationship, I have to say. Uh, and so the crossover episodes of Animated Series are a great example of something that I like to see, but I need to take a deeper dive.
Lance: Into one thing I'll throw in there, too. Having you mentioned about the newer stuff that's coming out in World's Finest, the art that Dan Mora is doing for that run right now, there is an issue I think it's issue four. There is another combined version of superman and Batman together that I didn't even think about until just right now as well.
Guido: Yeah, I had looked at it for our reading, uh, today, but I left it out. But, yeah, it's a cool moment. And yeah, that art, of course, is amazing. So it's fun to see. Maybe there are an increasing number of examples of them crossing over that we're starting to see. And I know we're going to talk later about what that could look like on screen. Rob, what is your background with Batman and Superman crossing over?
Rob: Not too much, because I didn't read many Superman comics growing up, although I did read Batman. And like you said, Lance, the Animated Series were definitely my way into those characters. And yes, they crossed over on there, but not too much. And then I think the other thing I'm just thinking is, at the time, growing up, getting them through the movies more than the comics, the movies were so different. Those Batman movies, whether it's the Tim Burton ones or the Schumacher movies, were so different in tone to the Christopher reeve superman movies as well. So it almost didn't feel like they could cross over in film in that way. So, of course, now that's kind of changing because we got these kind of cohesive universes. But at the time, no, they seemed like so totally different characters. So I didn't really associate too much with them actually crossing over. And I never really liked the justice league because it did feel like too many powerful people on one team. So that was never really a title I read. Well, let us crash land our spaceship back at the beginning. It is our origins of the story. Right now on this very show, you're going to get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago, and here's a comic title we actually just mentioned it's world's finest issue number 142 from DC comics. This came out in June, 1964, and it's called the composite superman.
Guido: It's written by edmund hamilton, penciled by kurt swan, inked by George klein and sheldon muldoff, edited by mort Weissinger. And we read this. To be honest, for fun, I was looking at the setup of our main issue, and there are a lot of ways to explore the connection between superman and batman. But for fun, I decided we needed to do that through the weird and wacky composite superman, uh, which rob had never even heard of, which I thought everyone knew composite superman, but it was new to rob. Lance, were you familiar with composite superman?
Lance: This is an issue that I've always eyed. I thought it was absolutely bonkers of an idea, and I'm so glad you chose it, because that means I was finally pushed to reading it. And, oh, boy, was I not disappointed, by the way.
Guido: Yeah, it's a great example of some silver age, just weirdness, uh, with both the plot and the characters. It's so strange. But, of course, with kurt swan's art, it is perfectly silver age DC looking.
Lance: Yeah, I thought it was hilarious that when this character shows up, that the reaction of batman and superman, like, trying to identify what this being is, is like, that man is flying like superman, and he's wearing batman's half of his costume. Because there's no discernible thing you can tell about batman when he's flying through the air. It's just like, superman flies. Batman wears that suit.
Guido: Yeah, I'd say that's one thing that this issue and I'm going to return to this theme, I think, but it makes, uh, apparent to me, is like, what is batman bringing to this equation? He's not bringing all that much. In fact, even when composite superman sort of has to prove that he's able to do it to each of them, when he's trying to manipulate them for batman, he proves he can solve the crime, but he does it through telepathy. So he then pretends like he solved the clues, which I guess is batman super strength is piecing together clues, but then the Composite Superman just fakes it. So it's quite funny to me that the Batman side of the equation, uh, is just the outfit, I think, pretty much.
Rob: And we should maybe back up, too. So for any other dumb dumbs like me who had not heard of Composite Superman before, so he's half Superman, half Batman, but his face is green. And that's actually because he has all of the superpowers of the Legion of Superheroes. So it's a funny name because he's called Composite Superman Batman. To your point, Gito doesn't even get his name mentioned in the character's name. He's just composite Superman. And in fact, this character doesn't actually have Superman's powers after all. So the Superman reference, even there, is tangential. He has the Legion of Superheroes powers, and he is a daredevil who is going to be jumping. I don't know if this does not sound like a smart idea. He's going to jump off of a building into a tub of water, but the water is leaking out, so he'll die. And Superman saves him. And he is very pissed at this. He just hates Superman for having ruined this. And Superman gives him a role as a janitor at some museum, and then he gets zapped by lightning and gets the Legion superpowers from their statues.
Guido: That's the best part, too, the lightning. Because each of their miniature statues has their DNA in it or their genetic materials. So the lightning then transfers their powers to him. It's really so absurd. I love it.
Lance: I'm sorry. If anyone ever makes a statue of me, please don't put my genetic material in the statue. Preview Madame Tusseau's thing going on right there.
Guido: Yeah. Oh, I like that. That's a good sort of Jurassic Park inspired horror movie, is like a Madame Tusseau's that actually has the genetic material. So then they resurrect all these people.
Rob: Yeah. Dwayne The Rock Johnson is just walking around.
Lance: That's who I and then when we're talking about it being, like, literally looking like half Batman, half Superman, we're talking, like, split, like, sagittarily. So literally, 50 50, it's not one's the top portion of one, one's the bottom. It's literally half and half of their bodies, right and left side.
Guido: Yeah, it's ridiculous. Like, the belt is even different. Um, I guess it's because he has the powers of chameleon or whatever, so he can just form himself that way. But it is fun to imagine him going out and getting, like, a seamstress to construct this costume.
Rob: Yeah. Well, and speaking of his costume, superman is trying to use his x ray vision at one point to see who he is, but the mask has lead on it. But what doesn't make any sense is most about two thirds, three quarters of his face.
Guido: Three quarters of his face.
Rob: Anyway, so I don't quite get what Superman thinks he's trying to do or why Composite Superman went through and wait, but he's just morphed his head, but yet there's lead there, too. So I guess that's just another legion superpower.
Guido: Yeah. Or he made his skin into lead because he can turn any mineral into anything else or any substance into anything else.
Rob: Uh, Superman throughout this issue, is transforming something into kryptonite. It's definitely a very Achilles heel. Dave says, mahina kind of power that he has. Oh, I could just turn anything into kryptonite.
Lance: He's just wearing a lead face. It's really awkward.
Guido: Yeah. And then I love, in terms of the absurdity that's so fun is the then castle that he builds himself and his whole plan, where he has a statue of himself holding the world a throne made of diamonds. And all of this is just because he just wants to take over the whole universe and be as ridiculous as he possibly can in doing that.
Rob: Well, and speaking of ridiculous, so basically, he knows through his telepathy that Superman is Clark and Batman is Bruce. So he says, okay, you have to stop being superheroes or I'm going to expose you. So they have to stop dressing up, but then they go, okay, we have to find out. We know he's up to no good. So Superman puts on his outfit and disguises or not, covers Batman in his own cape. That way the friction from their flying doesn't hurt. That like that weird detail to what you were saying. Batman doesn't really lend a lot to this scenario. Superman is literally carrying him, and we just see a red cloak with the shape of the Batman ears sticking out of it. Not probably Bruce's finest moment there.
Guido: Yeah. So it's silly. It, uh, doesn't tell us too much about who these two are, other than I mean, we know. Rob had asked me, actually, and I didn't research it, but we know at this point that they know each other's secret identities. And they know about the Fortress of Solitude in the back cave, because Composite Superman leaves the anonymous note come meet me. And they both first think, well, the only person who knows my secret is the other one. And so it's cool to see the depth of their relationship in that way. I guess that they have no secrets from each other, it seems. Yeah.
Lance: Uh, even though their personalities are so different. That's the thing about the friendship between batman and superman, between clark and bruce, is they very much are like two sides of the coin. Whereas they think in different ways, but they both have the greater good on their mind. And they go about it in two very different ways, which makes them such a formidable force and why they get paired up so many times in various crossovers.
Guido: Mhm. Yeah.
Rob: All right, well, let us use our own chameleon legion of superhero powers to morph this section into another section. And we'll sit on our crystal thrones in our palaces of exploring multiversity.
Lance: I am your guide. Through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question, what if?
Rob: And today we are asking the question, what if Superman's rocket from Krypton landed in Gotham and he became Bruce Wayne, aka Batman? And this is Superman speeding bullets from DC Comics under the Else World imprint from November 1993.
Guido: And this is written by JM. De Mateus. At this point, Dame Mateus is already a, uh, legend of comics, which he continues to be really, to this day. He's written hundreds, probably thousands of issues for DC, Marvel and other publishers at DC at this point, though he's done a lot of work in the 80s, he's already written Justice League, he's written Detective Comics, and Batman, he's written Action Comics. So he's written all of these characters on pretty substantive runs. At times, he seemed to be a fill in person. So he would go in and do 610 issues, come out, then go back in, and same thing at Marvel. He would do it with Spiderman defenders, whole bunch of titles, and has written other what ifs and Else worlds and also writes television scripts for the shows that we've been talking about, justice League Unlimited, Batman, Brave and the Bold. So JM de Mateus is a legend, and so is the pencilr on this issue, eduardo Barretto. So Eduardo Barretto also did an enormous amount of work at D. C. Primarily in the he's an Uruguayan artist who sadly died quite young in 2011 at, uh, 57. And he was known, though, also for his work on Elseworlds. So he did a lot of the most iconic Elseworld titles. He would do those prestige books also. So Superman under a yellow sun and Lex Luther. The unauthorized biography. And so he was known for the DC prestige art line, pretty much. And then this book was also inked by Eduardo, colored by Les Dorsheyed and edited by Mike Carlin. And before we get into a summary of the issue, which, Lance, maybe you can launch us off with in just a moment, this, in terms of the Elseworlds imprint, is actually one of the earliest Elseworlds. So Elseworlds starts only two years, less than two years before this issue comes out. There are a few Batman else worlds. This is the first non Batman Else worlds that we get. So, funny enough, it's very Batman related.
Lance: Batman.
Guido: Um, it's the first Superman Else worlds that we get. And, of course, the setup of it is reused in a good number of the Else worlds. So it's an interesting almost, I guess, archetype that Damataeus sets up here. Lance, do you want to give us a summary of what happens here or get us started, at least?
Lance: Yes, of course. Before I do that, I do want to point out, so you said, like, this is the first non Batman Else world. Imagine that pitch meeting where they were trying to say, okay, too much Batman. There's been too many Batman else worlds. We need to stop.
Guido: Let's branch out.
Lance: They're like, okay, so Superman. They're like, Great. Sounds good. Bat. He says, like, Superman, he lands in a different city.
Guido: Perfect.
Lance: Which city? Gotham. Okay. That, uh, kind of is adjacent. Perfect. Okay, who finds him? Martha and Thomas Wayne. Okay. And they name him Bruce. That's just another Batman story.
Guido: And what happens to Martha and Thomas? They get killed in an alley. Exactly. You're right. It is funny.
Lance: There's got to be somebody that was just like Face Palming when this was being pitched. Like, it had to have been. But like we've mentioned, uh, briefly, this storyline revolves around what if the spaceship that Calel was sent in landed in Gotham City and he was found by Martha and Thomas Wayne? So very similar. Immediately, Martha, uh, is infatuated with Calel, but they name him Bruce. Uh, they never have a child of their own. So this version of Bruce or this version of Superman really is raised, uh, by the Waynes. And given that life of privilege, we know that Martha provided a very loving environment. He was essentially homeschooled for a very long time because they wanted to protect him. And while Martha was really kind of coddling Bruce, quote, unquote, as he was growing up, thomas was showing him the ins and outs of education and academics and, uh, the best of the best literary minds in the world, saying, uh, how Bruce would love going into the city and watching the movies at the theater. And every single time he saw a movie, he wanted to be like the other character. And one of the times there was a Sherlock film, uh, and that was one of the times where Thomas was like, now this is a hero we can get behind. Okay, so the person you could get behind is a drug addicted, like, recluse that treats other people horribly. This makes no sense Thomas at all. But like we mentioned as well, you have that same situation where the Waynes are leaving the movie theater after seeing Zoro. They go through the alley. Joe Chill is there. He steals the pearls. Like, we got to show every single.
Guido: Time in every iteration of every doctor.
Lance: And both Thomas and Martha are shot in the alley and are killed. Um, this is where things change a little bit. And at this point in time, they had only noticed that Bruce never had an injury, was never sick, never had a broken bone, but hadn't really manifested any type of superpowers. And we, in this moment, uh, Bruce kind of loses it, begins to cry. And beautifully shown panel to panel, his eyes start to turn red, and we just get a full on cyclops, uh, beam at Joe Chill, like, burning him alive, and he's later found dead.
Guido: Mhm. Yeah. It is great art, even in the drama of his eyes turning red. Like the way Barretto adds the two tones or the half tone I think it's called the thing that looks like the comic book dots all over. So it really just is striking and stands out.
Lance: Honestly, I think I prefer this version of his heat ray than just, like, the two lines. I like this a lot better.
Guido: Mhm yeah, agreed. And he even does the hands over his eyes, like, in a very cyclops way. And the beams all just diffuse through his hands. So it is very cyclops and it is very cool. One interesting thing, listening to your summary so far that I noticed is one question I had was like, why didn't they know he had powers? But I'm realizing that was the purpose of the coddling that they did for him and the keeping him home. Because if he never got in like a schoolyard fight or something, he never would have had that emotional rage or fight or flight moment that would have triggered the use of his powers or the manifestation of his powers. So it was fun listening to you, because I was like, oh, that's why. Because that was one thing that I didn't understand. Huh.
Lance: He also isn't trying to do, like, manual labor on a farm.
Guido: Right, true. Exactly.
Rob: His baby really lucked out. He's the most powerful being on planet and a billionaire.
Lance: Trust fund. Superman.
Guido: Exactly.
Rob: At least the Clark superman. Yeah. He's working on the farm. He's wearing the overalls okay, we got it. Yeah.
Lance: One thing from this origin, when they're in this alley, it's Joe Chill. Immediately after killing Martha and Thomas, he's like, oh, look at what you made me do. I hate crying kids. And he goes to shoot, uh, Bruce, and obviously the bullets bounce off. And after Joe Chill is like, I hate what did he say? He's like, I hate it when kids cry. And Bruce is sitting there and he's like, I and then changes the panel. Hate and changes the panel. You and then the u is when we get that massive heat beam blast. The tension is built so well. And the truly interesting thing about this particular origin of this character is that in this moment, his, quote unquote, like, superhero identity is formed from rage. M rather than it being the sense of let's find justice, and Batman has always been about vengeance. But Clark growing up, his his sense of identity was always this uplifted. Like, I'm going to help the every man. There's a lot of heart to his origin. This is heartbreak origin, and forcing Clark to go down a path that he had not gone when he landed in Smallville. Mhm and it makes sense as we go through this narrative of why he is so hyperviolent and throwing people off buildings and we don't see him murder as much as we probably could have been justified in this storyline, but he is.
Guido: Yeah, agreed.
Lance: Uh, unsympathetic towards villainy.
Guido: Well, and you get the feeling that perhaps if a few years. Later in comics publication world, like they would have let him kill or something. I have a feeling Demetrius wanted him to be a murderer, but was perhaps prevented because you're right, Tonally, it feels like he comes really close to that line a lot. So, uh, maybe it was a story choice to keep him from crossing the line, but he comes really close a lot.
Rob: Yeah, they do need to keep him then a, uh, hero afterwards. So it's not just like the story's ending here. This character is ideally going on to become a bigger hero. So maybe they thought, well, if he kills someone here, can he really be another hero after that?
Guido: Can you redeem?
Rob: We need to keep him back. And I also think to your point, Lance, I've seen, uh, some versions of the Batman origin story where I think Joe Chill is a little bit more of a sympathetic figure in the fact that, oh, he's just he needs this money to stay alive. He's kind of wrong place, wrong time a little bit here. To your point, they make him super sadistic. And I think if he had been maybe just another criminal who just got in over his head, they wouldn't have had that gut punch to the Bruce character that they need to kind of kick start his story.
Lance: Yeah. And they do it to a point where Joe Chill dies because of the effects of this heat beam from Bruce, but they do it in a way where they find him later in a different area. And he said so it's not like it was just he was actively trying to kill this other person. It was these effects of the first time manifestation of his powers.
Guido: Yeah. It was like an accidental death for sure.
Lance: Yeah.
Guido: And then I think the pieces that follow this, really add to the origins, are beautiful in both the story and the art. The next page, when he's at the funeral, and it has that repetition. Poor kid kept saying the same thing over and over. The bullets, the bullets, the bullets. And you're reading that as you're watching the funeral and the rain on the funeral. It's a neat way of giving him the trauma that we all know Batman has. And then as he gets older in the next sequence, he's obsessed with crime and he is putting the newspapers up all over the room. And so, again, it's a neat way of just thinking about I was thinking a lot during this story about like nature versus nurture. Clearly here de mateus. And I think most people who believe in science believe nurture is the majority of what creates people and our sense of ourselves. And this is true in this, because he's not Bruce Wayne, the Batman we know. He's dealing with it really differently. And so, I don't know, it's just interesting to see the same thing play out, but have it affect someone differently. Yeah, I liked the trauma, violence, darkness stuff in it because that's so bound up in Batman. But what would it mean to Superman?
Lance: Yeah, and at this point too, he's surrounding himself with all this crime and violence because he's trying to mask the emotions that he feels on the inside. And he thinks if he focuses on all these other things that are going wrong in the world, he doesn't have to look internally at, ah, what's broken and wrong with him. Because at this point, we're still not even to the Batman version of his character. It's only after he's in that room where you see all those newspaper clippings and he goes back out and he sees someone is holding Alfred at gunpoint because these individuals have broken into the Wayne, into Wayne Manor and are trying to rob him. And there's all this other motive behind it. But it's kind of the snapping point for this version of Bruce. And he immediately chucks a dude out the window, uh, and for the first time since being a child, he manifests, uh, his heat beams again, which serves as this breakdown of all these memories that he had. And he now remembers what happened that night in that alley. And he's starting to say, what am I? Because I am not. Normal people can't shoot heat beams out their eyes. Like, what is going on? And this is when Alfred shows him the spaceship and he starts to learn where he truly comes from.
Guido: Mhm. And I think one of the most powerful lines in the book to me in that in terms of understanding this elseworld's tale is I could have saved them. So when he realizes that he has power and yet he let the two people that mattered most to him die, in his mind, he let them die. So I think that is really powerful because that's a great divergence from Bruce. Bruce couldn't have saved his parents. No, Cal Bruce could have saved his parents. He just didn't know he could have. So I think that's really powerful.
Rob: Yeah. Having not read this before right now for this episode, I thought the story was going to be that Cal Bruce saved the Wayne. And what is then the story after that? Does he not become Batman because of that? So I was actually surprised that the character no, he's still not. And when we think of it, he still, even though he has all these powers, he still is a boy. He still doesn't know how to use them. He's still scared in that moment just because he's this powerful being, even though he actually doesn't know it at that point. But he still is a child.
Lance: And after he has that realization that's when he in his mind, it starts to have these gears start turning of I need to do more. I have been this reckless my entire life. I need to get out in the world, and I need to do justice rather than being this bystander of seeing all these horrible things that are happening, I need to get involved. So he looks up in the sky. He starts to see these outlines of bats. And I think it's really important for us to just, uh, all read off what he says in this moment because this is really how he transforms himself into the Batman. Because he says, uh, can you see them? Can you see my brothers? No, of course you can't. But I can. I can see things, hear things that no one else can. I can spread my wings and fly through the shadows of the night. There's so much I can do that I've never let myself know I can do. I've hidden so much of my own power from myself as punishment for that little boy's crimes. But I'm not punishing myself anymore, Alfred. I know myself. At ah, last. And he does this awesome backflip flying motion surrounded by a bunch of bats and red eyes and black, flowing hair is a straight up morbius shot. But I so cool. I love this panel so much.
Guido: Well, and then the costume panel. The debut of the costume is incredible. It's so cool because all those slight tweaks you mentioned earlier that are on the COVID but seeing them manifest, like, in the night and having the billowing cape really capturing the Bat that he was going for. And, yeah, it's just cool to see a slight but significant variation.
Lance: And then we jump over to who we think is the Joker, and we'll go through this part really quick. It's interesting, though. We think it's the Joker. We see the outline, we see the lips, we see the gloves. But he's interacting with these individuals that broke into Wayne Manor and they didn't do the job that he wanted them to do. And they're making these excuses. And then all of a sudden, he grabs them both by the throat from the shadows and lifts them up and they are done for. And you immediately think, why is Jokers have superhuman strength? At this point?
Guido: Yeah, it is fun. I'm curious if Rob, did you see it coming?
Rob: Yes, I did not in that moment. But once they introduce our other alias yes, I did.
Lance: Uh, and then, uh, Guido, like you mentioned, we jump over to the next page where there is a sniper on top of a roof. And the first introduction full, like, almost it's a full page of the introduction of his Batsuit, which is epic. And he, of course, stops that sniper, throws him off a building. Uh, but their first interaction this is one of the coolest Batman I don't mess around moments is they meet on the rooftop, him and the sniper. The sniper pulls out a grenade and Batman literally does, like the Bruce Lee finger flick towards himself to throw it at him. He grabs it, closes it, and it explodes in his hands. And then you just see Batman giving like this side stare at this dude on the rooftop. And it is epic. It's such, uh, another cool page.
Guido: Well, that's what's fun too is with the passage that you read when he was becoming Batman. He's completely confident and perhaps overconfident, which is I think what will be interesting to talk about in the end twist. But here he is totally confident. He thinks he is invulnerable, unbeatable. He can do whatever he wants to whomever he wants. Like he feels no limits. And that scene really gets at that.
Lance: Yeah. And those no limits go into his almost like loss of humanity at this point. We still haven't crossed that line where he's a murder hobo. But he definitely isn't viewing people as people at this point in the story.
Guido: Mhm yeah.
Lance: Next up, we then are introduced to a somewhat different looking Lex Luther, uh, who has moved his operations to Gotham City trying to take over Wayne Industries. And this is that moment we get where we also kind of saw a version of this in Batman Begins when Bruce Wayne comes into the room saying, uh, I'm going to be involved a lot more than I used to be. And he denies Luther, uh, from taking over Wayne Industries. Bruce fires their lawyers. And he is now stepping into the spotlight not only as the Batman but also as Bruce Wayne, president of Bruce or president of Wayne Industries.
Guido: Yeah. And it's a fun way to set up the antagonistic relationship with Lex in this world where he wouldn't have it in the same way Superman for the same reasons that Superman had it with him. So I like that.
Rob: And speaking of crossovers, I think it's really a crossover between Lex Luther and the Kingpin. Because thank you. He really looks like there, uh, have.
Lance: That in my notes.
Rob: I mean, I'm sure Lex has been drawn many different ways over time. But I usually think of him as kind of svelte. Because especially, I don't know, he's able to go to toe to toe with Superman if he's wearing a power suit or something. Yeah. Very kingpin esque here.
Guido: M definitely agree.
Lance: On top of, uh, Bruce taking over Wayne Industries, he also has started a newspaper in Gotham. And is it like the Gotham Gazette?
Guido: Yeah, Gotham Gazette.
Lance: And he actually gets a lot of the writers, uh, and reporters from the Daily Planet over there. Because Lex, uh, Corp. Was able to buy out the Daily Planet after they printed a, uh, not the greatest highlight, uh, piece on Lex Luther. And Lex Corp will say, yeah.
Guido: Uh, and fired Perry White because of it.
Lance: Right. And that's when we get introduced to Lois Lane. The first time that this Bruce Wayne is meeting Lois and he becomes a bumbling fool.
Guido: Yeah. And it's fun. Spoiler. Well, yeah, I think I'll spoil it now. I like that she's the narrator we just don't realize it that she's narrating. Um, but it's fun once you realize it. And now looking back at these pages with you, it's fun to realize she's narrating it the whole time.
Lance: Yeah, it makes sense that Lois would be the one telling the story. M uh, then obviously, we get some creeper. Lex Luther hitting on Lois Lane. She denies his advances, as you should from a creepo. Uh, and then he throws her out of his car into a sketchy neighborhood and Superman or Batman does his best imitation of Earthquake, uh, attack, and flies out of the ground and then proceeds to beat the crap out of some people that are trying to assault Lois.
Guido: Yeah, one thing I appreciate about that scene, uh, is I was thinking as Lois shows up and she's in the mini skirt and Lex is being really sleazy with her, I was like, oh, God, come on, couldn't Lois have more to do here? Which she does, ultimately, but I like in that scene that at the very least, she talks about how she's tough, she can take care of herself, she has her mace, she's ready, but, oh, wait, she's a klutz like Bruce Clark is. And she trips over the garbage can. So I like that she was going to take these guys on. She was not helpless. She even says, I don't need a white knight. I never needed a white knight. But she tripped and fell. So it's a fun way of setting her up.
Rob: Does she need a dark knight?
Guido: Oh, I guess that is why that line is in there. Oh, clever. Wow.
Lance: And even after that interaction, she was just saved from being, uh, attacked and assaulted. And her immediate response is not only I could have handled and protected myself, but also realizing, oh, you go too far. You are using hyperviolence. You went too far with these people. Yeah. They deserve to be stopped. But you did it in a way that is like inhuman.
Guido: Yeah.
Rob: Elaser faces another one of these guys here. So yeah, we do get it.
Lance: Uh, yeah.
Guido: And even says there's that scene in the alley when he has his finger to the guy and says, one finger right through your head. Splatter your brains all over the street, like he's threatening him.
Lance: Such a cool line. But the thing I enjoy is this development of the role that Lois plays with this version of Bruce in this guiding light of how he should be a better example and do so much more for the city than what Batman is doing at this point in time. To the point where after she rebuffs him, he in all this power, not only having these superhuman abilities, but being financially on the most solid ground of anyone in this entire universe. He kind of takes a step back. And, uh, even in the book, it calls him like he's like a child. Because this is the first time someone has essentially been like, no, that's wrong. Mhm and he's starting to think, oh, maybe I'm going about this the wrong way.
Rob: Mhm yeah, and it's interesting when you think back to the main continuity, bruce, the Bruce we all know where, yes, of course, Bruce has had many love interest over time in Selena, Kyle and stuff like that. But he doesn't have a Lois Lane. He doesn't have like a Mary Jane Watson. He doesn't have this female counterpart that is as tied to him as he is as a character. So it's interesting. It shows you as you were just saying, Lance, this is what Lois brings to this character, to Superman, to Clark. It brings him that humanity and makes him human rather than alien. And I guess that's one of the things that always keeps Bruce, the Bruce we all know somewhat one step removed from humanity.
Lance: M yeah, absolutely. And it's that same night that Lois goes back to the Gotham Gazette to work and Bruce is there and they have this moment of embrace. And that's like where their personal relationship really starts off. And uh, then quickly the next day, we have Lex come into the offices looking very menacing and he removes his hat and then rips his own face off to reveal that he actually fell into this chemical VAT, which happened at Lex Corp, which was mentioned earlier in the book. And he is this amalgamation of Lex, Luther and the Joker.
Guido: Mhm? Yeah. I don't know. Joker stuff. Well, that would have been being referenced here, but there's the umbrella. And it felt very Penguin ish too. The fact that he has this umbrella that shoots and then he can also fly out the window with just exactly.
Rob: What the Penguin uses in Batman Returns. He's got the helicopter umbrella.
Lance: Joker always has a lot of goofy gadgets. So this was also fitting, but 100%. I also thought of Penguin in this scenario as well.
Guido: Yeah, it's like a mega mashup.
Lance: Yes, it is. They just were like, okay, we have to fit we have one villain in this. How many of them put into one character?
Rob: Where are you going to put a Marvel villain in just for good measure?
Lance: It works though, because you have this amalgamation of like Superman, Batman, that's true version. And so they're taking the greatest villains of both of those characters and putting them into one. So it's very fitting, but it's done in a smart way. I really liked how they did it. But of course, uh, Lex is hyper obsessed with Lois and shoots Clark out of a window and then flies using that helicopter backpack thing to take Lois thinking that for some reason she was going to change her mind and become his queen and ruler of the city. Uh, but of course, they are stopped by the high flying Batman, uh, as the rest of the city is being filled with these goons that lex has hired to just cause mad chaos throughout.
Guido: Gotham and turn it into the independent nation state of joker onia real weird. So fun. Uh, it's fun. When I first read it, I was like, why? It's weird? But as I thought about it and as I look at it now, it's, again, a really cool thought about, okay, joker. The reason joker isn't successful in my understanding of him is because he's chaos and he's anarchic. So to put lex's strategy with the joker, it makes sense to me that of course this is what he would do. Lex isn't chaotic enough, so lex never goes far enough. Lex is never going to send out these purple suited army people to take over the city. He's trying to be too strategic and controlled. And joker is never going to have the resources or the organization to do this. Put the two together, and of course you get someone who's going to want to turn it into joker. Ania. I kind of love that.
Lance: It's kind of reminiscent of what happens in season two of harley quinn the animated series, when all of the different it is like, get their own mini cities.
Guido: It is, yeah, totally. That's right.
Lance: So this is that final confrontation between batman and lex, uh, luther's, joker, and as they're flying through the sky, uh, it just looks like batman's about to throw him to the ground from a very high height. And, uh, lex asks, why, batman, old boy, I do believe you're as far gone as I am. Am I correct in my assumption? And batman says, yes, and hurls him down to the earth with like, all caps. Exclamation point. Yes. It shows batman's flying like, silhouette in the sky. And he looks down at lois, and she just simply just says, no. And that's what does this switch in batman's brain. And he immediately flies down, grabs luther before he splats on the ground and then takes him to the authorities. And then he does what superman would do and with reservation, taking out all of the different villains that are messing with the city, trying to do harm. And then going back to lois at the end, uh, she revealing his mask, pretty much believing that she always knew that it was bruce underneath that cowl. And they go off flying into the night. And then the next page, we get to see someone that the batman is no more, but the person that the city deserves as a protector is superman. And we get bruce in an actual superman suit.
Guido: Yeah, I love all the text of this, but I love the things lois is saying to him and about him in the narration. Makes a lot of sense for why he would transition. And even before that, when he's still just destroying the city and fighting the goons. And she talks about how that's who batman was. A child in a halloween costume playing out a lifetime of guilt and anger. So I love that she's the impetus for him to become Superman and leave Batman behind.
Lance: Yeah. In a story filled with ridiculous scenarios of the amalgamation of multiple characters, there is something at the core of this book that is beautiful. It is showing what an individual through, like, even being raised by good people, and something horrible happening to you. You can go down a very dark path, but if you surround yourself with the right people, you can come out of that and become the best version of who you can possibly be. And for this world, it's that we need Clark Kent. Not like the Bruce Wayne. We need Clark Kent to be superman. Mhm to be this beacon of hope for humanity, really, because of all the things he can do. And the fact that, like you mentioned, the fact that it's Lois that is what leads us to that moment is amazing, because a human person with no powers has just been directly resulting in the formation of the Earth's greatest superhero.
Guido: Mhm yeah.
Rob: And of course, we hear all the time from people saying, it's not about the destination, it's about the journey. And that's so true, of course, in life, but also in so many of these alternate universe comics. And here on our final page, we get he's Superman. He's a variation on the suit, but he's end up there. But I think that's key to so many of these else worlds and alternate universes where the end result is the same, or maybe a slight variation on what we know. But what is so different, as you were saying, is the journey to get to that place that he takes and going to that dark place that, of course, the Clark Superman doesn't necessarily go to.
Lance: I also love how 90s this suit is.
Guido: It's almost like a little eradicator esque.
Rob: Yes, very eradicator. Yeah.
Guido: I don't even know why it's inexplicable. And, yeah, the way the eye holes are cut out almost looks like Magneto's mask, but I don't know why he, uh, has little triangles on the side.
Rob: The art in general definitely resonated with me so much because this is so much of the era of comics that I was reading firsthand. So it's got that perfect combination of a little cartooniness, but not quite, uh, it's just comic bookie. There's no other way to describe it.
Guido: Than, like yeah, I'd say with a little edge. I think that's what Eduardo Barretto does well. There's elements of it, and he did the inks, too, so it's really him. There's elements of it that are a little reminiscent of, like, Bronze Age horror to me. Like the heavy lines and the shading.
Lance: Uh, I'm just happy that it ends with Bruce smiling like he's flying through the city at the very end, and he has an honest, genuine smile on his face because that's what Superman is. He is joy, he is hope. He is the person that is looking out for everyone in the city. That's what you want from your Superman. And to go from someone that started this entire storyline as a kid saying I hate you in being born of rage and ending in joy having come out of his shell, no longer being a recluse, being a providing member of society, using Wayne Industries to help as well as using his unlimited resources of power to do good. It's such a heartwarming story that is, uh, shrouded in, like, a container of violence. You go on a journey when you.
Guido: Read this book, you know, I have to say, and this is just because it's recency bias, I'm sure, but with no spoilers. But it reminds me a lot of this season, the new season of Ted Lasso and an arc that was set up in the last season. What I was just saying to Rob yesterday was I really like this idea of telling a story about someone who's really dark and who's using their power for bad. But when you understand that motivation, when you understand the trauma that fed it, it's still a really interesting story, even if it's not a story I like to see. And I feel like this comic is doing that same thing by understanding Batman cal Batman's motivation, by understanding the way trauma intersecting with the power, he has turned him into this darker version of Batman, this darker vigilante. Uh, it is violent. It is dark, but you're right. It's ultimately an uplifting story because there's still something very human in it. And it's about dealing with trauma and how we can deal with it and cope poorly and lash out at others and express violence and perpetuate violence, and then how we can deal with it in bright ways and positive forward ways. It's a deep story. So I'm wondering if you want more stories from this universe of this character, because actually, oddly, now elseworlds haven't been revisited quite as much as what ifs have for Marvel, but some elseworlds have been, and this one has never been revisited. We've never even seen this design pop up in a multiversity issue nothing. So do either of you want more stories with our Bruce Superman 100%?
Lance: This is one of my favorite Else world stories. Now easily. It gave me everything I wanted. It gave me the strange. It gave me the fun. It gave me just the heartbreak and the revelation. It's so much fun that I want to dive back in. And I'm curious if we would get more villains that are kind of an amalgamation of, um, Superman and Batman villains. So there's a lot of fun to be had in this world where rather than all these characters that might have sprung up because of Batman, because of Superman, but without one of them in this world, are more of these villains going to be different than what we normally see? So with all the variations we could really see. I think this universe has a ton to offer.
Guido: Yeah, I agree. And that's the direction I was thinking about, too, is there's so many stories to tell about Gotham and this world without Batman, with Superman, but without Batman. And I'm interested in seeing that. And then I'm absolutely interested in these characters because I think they're written so well. So I definitely want to see more.
Rob: I'm thinking Toy Man and The Riddler mashed up killer croc and parasites, bain and metallo. Yeah, there's a lot of people that you could put together in those ways. And I think it would be interesting to see I think that's where, for me, I would want to see future stories is how does this Superman, Bruce, Superman, take on other villains in that way? Because, of course, the tricky thing always with Superman is he's all powerful, so you have to attack him in another way. And how can some of those other villains come at that? What would the Riddler do to stump Superman? That's kind of an interesting story. I'm sure it's been told at some point, but yeah.
Lance: So do you think that if we started getting those younger sidekicks, would they come in as the super boys, the super girls, or would we get more of the Robbins or like, Batgirls?
Guido: I think it's a great question, and I think that alone is a story worth telling because we'd have to understand why this character is willing to take that on. In the case of I mean, Superboy is a clone and Supergirl is a relative. So I think it makes it clear why Cal feels the motivation. If you were to remove that, is there some situation that would lead this Bruce to take on a ward? Because he has the power. He doesn't really need the help. So what is he doing by that? Is he teaching or something? Or does someone express desire, uh, to do that? Or does he meet someone who has some sort of similar parallel origin? I don't know. I think that in and of itself, is a miniseries right there.
Lance: Yeah, I could totally see, like, a Superboy feeling scorned and then deciding to take um on the previous mantle of Batman.
Guido: Yeah, well, that's a fun story. Yeah. The Batman almost becomes a problematic character that someone could take almost like The Punisher or something. Right. He becomes this vigilante that yeah, you could see a character sort of taking on and what that means, and OOH, I like that you just wrote it. There you go. Yeah, I love that idea.
Rob: Until we hear that story, let's talk about some other stories with our pondering possibilities. Will the future you describe be averted?
Lance: Averted? Diverted.
Rob: So, Gito, what are we talking about for our pondering possibilities?
Guido: Okay, this is a long explanation, so I considered a lot of possibilities. So there is a Superman Batman run from the early 2000s where. Their powers get combined. And from a fight with Silver Banshee, there's something at one point with Lex messing their powers so that he can try to defeat them more easily. There is the return of composite Superman in a number of iterations, including the recent one Lance mentioned. There are great character beats that I didn't even go into, but shout out to one of my favorite two issues, which is Tom King writing the double date between Superman Lois and Batman Catwoman. I think their relationship is like a goal in my life. I would like to have that relationship. Um, it's so cool. So I went through all of that, and then I chose something that I ended up abandoning yesterday. So I need to explain this now, too, because I chose another alternate universe originally, which was Dark Knights of Steel. So, Lance, are you reading Dark Knights of Steel?
Lance: I love Dark Knights of Steel. Tom Taylor can do no wrong.
Guido: Okay, good. Completely agreed. Um, so not only was Dark Knights of Steel Tom Taylor's awesome else worlds that we need to one day cover. And now we know Lance is coming back to do that. But what's cool. And this is a spoiler for only the first issue. But I will spoil the first issue in this world, because not only does it have cal born on Earth during these medieval nightly times as Jorell and Lara crash, cal is a prince, and, uh, Bruce is a knight in the kingdom. And it turns out he finds he's invulnerable. And Jorrell admits that he's actually Jorrell's son from having an affair with Martha, who died with her husband, Thomas. They were another queen and king. So it's cool because the whole setup of Dark Knights of Steel is a little bit about the interplay between these two characters. And in this world, they're half brothers. And so I thought that was a neat spiritual successor to this. But ultimately I went for fun again, and instead we landed on a, uh, TV show episode. So, Rob, what episode was it?
Rob: It is Superman the Animated Series. That is the 1996 Animated Series companion to Batman The Animated Series. This episode is called Nighttime That's Night with a K. It is number 43, or the second of the third season, and it aired on October 10.
Guido: It's written by Robert Goodman. Directed by Kurt Gaeta. And we watched it because in it, Batman is missing and Superman has to pretend to be Batman in order to keep Gotham safe and figure out what happened. So, Lance, had you seen this before? Yeah. You were a Superman Animated Series person.
Lance: Yeah, I have seen this episode, but it's been a long time since I watched it, and I probably laughed and smiled as much as I did when I was a kid.
Guido: Singing.
Lance: The Tim verse is just so brilliant. It's so well done. But this episode is hilarious because you have Clark in the batsuit working with Tim Drake. Robin uh, and it's so funny because he's so bad at being Batman. So Tim just has to keep feeding him lines to tell Commissioner, uh, Gordon, or which side of the Bat belt or the utility belt is like the Bat grappling hook.
Guido: Or to flip the table when he's interrogating Penguin, robin's like, flip the table.
Rob: Flip.
Lance: Intimidation factor. At one point, uh, Superman grabs, uh, the Penguin. I think it was the Penguin at that point. And it becomes intimidating. And Tim's like, now he's getting it.
Guido: Yeah, it is a lot of fun. And it's cool because it is Superman in the Batsuit, which is what we just read in the Else Worlds. And of course, there's the fun stuff, too, where they have it, it's Kevin Conroy's voice when he's Batman. And even they have Robin asking him, like, how do you do that to your voice? And he's like, I can mimic any voice modulation or whatever he says voice. Yeah. Muscle memory.
Lance: I think he said he has perfect muscle control, which lets him adjust his vocal cords to mimic anyone. And then he starts mimicking Tim, uh, Drake's voice right back at him.
Guido: Yeah. So it does have a good sense of humor while also doing some fun stuff. And I think getting a little bit at what the difference between these two people is superman and Batman. Why is Superman having a hard time being batman is there in the episode and speaks to why they're different.
Rob: Yeah, it's interesting because Batman and this is, I think, hinted at her in the episode, which is that Batman has this partner, and his partner is usually a child of some sort, and yet he's the dark and serious one. While Superman doesn't have a partner, he's operating solo and he's the one that smiles. And in fact, when they know that Bruce has been brainwashed, it's because he smiles in the video. So it's interesting that when you think of, oh, the person who's actually running around with a kid's sidekick you would think would be the happy one. But no, he's the dark, serious one.
Guido: Rob, I think you just gave a great argument for not having kids.
Lance: That's true.
Rob: Maybe that's why Batman is so superman.
Guido: Is life without kids and Batman is not.
Lance: Superman gets more sleep.
Guido: Mhm exactly.
Rob: I think even this episode, especially, and going even back to the composite, Superman, it does make you see at least how they're drawn when they're drawn, that they are two big, hunky, muscular white guys with black hair. And so there is the fun line here where Clark disguises batman goes to meet Commissioner Gordon. And I think Montoya says at the end, he's bigger right now. But aside from that kind of reference, it's like, oh, yeah, these two guys are really do just look a lot yeah.
Guido: Visually pretty interchangeable. Yeah.
Lance: Isn't there another episode where people start to think that Clark is Superman. And they go into like a courthouse, and Bruce puts on Superman suit and pretends to be Superman while Clark how.
Guido: Fun there might be, I don't remember.
Lance: There's something there. I don't know if the roles are reversed, but I know that at some point, they pretend to be the other so that both of them can be in the same place at the same time.
Guido: Right.
Rob: And I don't know if you both do this, but their mothers have the same name, too. M someone at some point, I don't know exactly.
Guido: Let's not talk batman versus Superman, please. Thank you. I tried to keep that out of this entire episode. Actually, Rob, this morning when I said to Rob Lance, I said, oh, yeah, I changed it up last minute for the Superman animated show. I had something else, but I won't tell you till we're we're doing the episode. And he was like, dawn of justice? No, absolutely not. No way. Um, I am curious, though, now that we've looked at all of these things. Like James Gunn promised us elseworld's movies, like, do we think that playing with their origins could be something we see? Do we think it would make for a compelling movie or TV show?
Lance: There needs to be a break in formula for people to really get excited, like truly, truly excited about superhero films because there is a general excitement about them when they're coming out. There's always the hype, but a lot of them are becoming a little bit more formulaic. And so the benefit of having else worlds and what ifs coming out is it changes up that pace so you get these weird wacky stories and the fact that they are going to be more of one shots rather than having to be. This connective universe lets you play with a lot more and it's going to catch people off guard. So if you were to put this into live action, oh my gosh, what an incredible story to see.
Guido: Oh my god. Yeah, it really would be cool. And I think you're right. I think it would generate so much excitement because, of course, these are two characters who, as we know, everyone in the world knows their origins. So you don't even have the issue if you were to do this with some deeper bench characters or even doing it with someone like Hulk or someone not everyone in the world, I think, knows Hulk's origin. They know who Hulk is, but they don't know his origin. But these two characters, everyone knows the origin. So you could say to probably you could probably say to my mother, who's probably listening to this, she listens to us every week. Um, you could probably say to her like, oh, what if Superman's rocket landed in Gotham City and she'd know what that means? People know these origins well enough to know what that means. And so I think you're right. It would be a really cool movie. So from our lips to James Gunn's.
Rob: Ears, it makes sense that the other character that we've seen this with over at Marvel is Spiderman, because I think that's the other character that if you ask people, how does Spider Man become Spiderman, there's, uh, the radiator Spider. Right. So just even when you're watching the Spiderverse movie, they're able to show all those different variations. And we get it because we know that character in that way. I don't think Iron Man, even now that there's this franchise, people could tell you what Iron Man's or Thor's, which changes so much from the comic. So, yeah, I think you're right. It takes someone and it shows you just how iconic and foundational these characters are that everyone. Even if you've actually never read a Superman comic, you know what Superman's origin is, and that allows you that freedom to play.
Guido: Yeah. Well, I think that does it for our journey through this. That is a wrap. Thank you for listening. And Lance, thank you for taking us on this trip. My gosh, it was so wonderful. And thank you for joining us. Can you tell our listeners what to do to find you, support you, and listen to comic bookkeepers?
Rob: Of course.
Lance: But first, I want to say thank you both for having me. Your show is one of my absolute favorites. I listen as soon as a new episode drops. So, uh, this has been a blast to do another crossover because it was so much fun having you on our show.
Guido: Well, we have two more lined up now with, uh, Superman, Batman, Predator, Alien, and wait, what was the second one that we thought of?
Lance: Uh oh.
Guido: You're coming back for Dark Knights of Steel. Perfect. All right, so we've got crossovers in the future. Sorry, go ahead.
Lance: Got them locked down. If you have enjoyed my ramblings, you, uh, can find bookkeepers on social media at cbkcast. We're on Instagram and Twitter. And, uh, then you can also find us on anywhere where you stream your podcasts. We are just comic bookkeepers. Three words.
Guido: Thank you. And our reading list for this episode is in the show notes. You can follow us on social media at dear watchers.
Rob: And please leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.
Guido: In the meantime, in the words of Uatu, keep pondering the possibilities.