Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

Welcome to Dear Watchers in Omniversal's comic book podcast, where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

We are traveling with you through the stories and the worlds that make up an omniverse of fictional realities. We all love.

Our channel.

You and your watchers on this journey are me Gido, but the one with the long hair and I'm Batman, so that gives away what we're discussing. And funny, I was just thinking, oh, I have long hair and I'm going to cut it all off probably tomorrow. So I'm going to be two different Guido. Barry Allen?

Yes. And before we begin today's trip through the cinematic multiverse, uh, what's new with us?

Well, first, a few shout outs. One to Randall Otowitz, who has been on the show a few times, a good friend of the show, and he has a new book, The Flash Encyclopedia, about the journey of the Flash from script to screen. And we looked at it when we got home from seeing The Flash last night, and it has just great pictures of the film and the art design in the film, but then a ton of comic material, which importantly, it should have. So it's fun to look at that book shout out, including on that an.

Image from our last week's episode. Well, from the comic we covered on last week's episode.

Correct. Clash of Two Worlds. And in the vein of shout outs, happy 100 episodes this week to our friends at Comic Bookkeepers, Lance and Chris. And if you go over and listen when their hundredth episode hits this week, then you can hear us there asking them a few questions to celebrate their.

Centennial and can rats.

Last point on centennials, we M are doing our centennial summer giveaways and today just might be the first one. So make sure you keep listening to find out how to win one of those great bundles that we have. And you can find out more about those giveaways back in episode 100 if you didn't listen.

And if you are joining us for the first time, we have three parts of our journey today, much like the three parts of the Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy, uh, Tie Ins, Origins of the Story, what inspired this other reality? Exploring multiversity, we dive deeper into our alternate universe and pondering possibilities. We examine the impact and what's followed or coming in the future.

And remember, you can go to dearwatchers.com to find our episodes, to send us a message, and to visit our coffee where you can join and support us or just follow more about what's going on.

And with that, Dear Watchers, welcome to episode 102 and let's check out what's happening in the um, Omniverse with our travels today's. Alternate universe. Today we take a big screen journey to find out the answer to the question, do you want to get nuts?

So many in jokes today, our audience better know what we're referring to.

Yes. No, we're not answering that question. We're answering, what if the DC superhero movie universes were a bowl of spaghetti? Including Michael Keaton's batman resurrecting DC film worlds lost or only imagined? And the flash.

Indeed, the flash, because it is kind of an earth that we're visiting today. But it's an earth that while we're visiting it, it actually gets rebooted. So who knows what earth we're going to or what earth we're going to be on. And all of this will make as much sense as we can make out of it for our listeners as we progress. Because what this is, is an earth made up of the DC universe superhero films. But what does that mean?

That means we are going to be exploring a lot. Not a film lot, a studio lot. We do mean a lot. In fact, almost all of the DC universe superhero based film worlds. Albeit briefly for most of them, because there are a lot of them. And a note on spoilers, we will talk openly about all films up through black Adam, which we can't spoil because we didn't actually see it.

No.

And we'll be spoiling some movies from the 1970s. So, uh, hopefully you've seen them by now. And when we are ready to give spoilers on the 2023 flash, we will warn you. So don't worry just yet. And we will explain what's a part of our discussion when we get into them. But first, a little teeny background on DC's movie slate.

Yes, just a quick background on movies based on DC superheroes. If you count those based on or leading into television and serials, which we omit. But you could go back to 1951 for superman and the mole man or Batman from 1966, uh, as the first DC universe films, most people would probably place it in 1978 with superman. And if you count them, all of the core superhero universe, there are 38 of them, but there are a lot more that aren't even superheroes, but based on comics. There are a ton, of course, also of direct to video and animated films. Then there's the question of the DC extended universe, which might run from man of steel to the flash, but it's not always clear what's in and what's out of that and whatever. So we're going to get into that. Interestingly. Just a little tidbit on DC films. The first film that DC's parent company since 1967, warner Bros. Though it was through an acquisition where this company that owned DC also bought Warner brothers. But anyway, they've been with Warner Bros. For a long time. But it wasn't until 1980, nine's Batman film that Warner brothers actually started making a movie based on the intellectual property that they are publishing DC comics owned. And then of course, there's DC films, which gets founded in 2016. 1st film to use that branding is suicide squad. The first suicide squad. And then this evolved into DC studios in 2022.

We are going to get into our backgrounds with each of these movies. So I think we've come to the point, the Flashpoint, that is, of our first segment origins of the story. Right now on this very show, you're going to get the answer to all your questions. Uh, our amazing story begins a few years ago. So we are going to discuss the DC films, not mostly in chronological order, but not chronological clusters.

What we decided to do for our origins of the story, we decided to talk through the superhero comic book based movies. But we made some executive decisions like dropping Swamp Thing, Steel Catwoman, Jonah Hex, and watchmen dropping Vertigo comics like Constantine V for Vendetta, the Losers League of Extraordinary Gentlemen I don't even know what that one is. With Zoe salado.

Oh, my gosh, she escaped me. Yeah.

So we are focused on the recognizable superhero properties brought to life from the DC Comics core prime universe. Sometimes in their own continuous or connected universes, sometimes not, or later to be retconned. So let's just get into it and talk about these movie worlds and our experiences of them and what stands out as we probe these story origins.

Yeah. So first up, we have our Superman block. That's superman AK. Superman the movie from 1978, superman Two from 1980, superman Three from 1983. Supergirl from 1984.

I'm going to separate that and Superman.

Four the Quest for Peace from 1987.

Yeah. So let's stay on Superman for the moment before we get to Supergirl, what's your Superman movie story? Where do they, uh, live in your mind?

Well, 100%, I saw the first couple on WPIX Channel Eleven here in the New York area. I think they played all of them. I definitely remember commercials for Quest for Peace as well. And yeah, so I would tape them off of TV and watch them. That's how I saw them for years. Although I've probably only seen Superman Three once. I don't know if I've ever really seen Superman Four, but the first two many times. How about you?

Yeah, they're, of course, iconic. Everyone knows them. But I have to say, I don't think I've ever told Elliot this. So this might be the end of my, uh, long relationship with Elliot, which is that I used to find them boring when I was a kid. So they were on TV a lot, and it was fun. But I think because in terms of the visual aesthetic, I already had Wonder Woman filling my 70s superhero needs. And then because quickly, at a young age, we get into the next, uh, quadrilogy, we'll talk about, um, Superman never hooked me. I never disliked it, but it really just never hooked me. So I saw all four like you lots of times growing up. We're both a little young to have seen, especially the first three in the theaters. But you were, in fact, not even born. But, um, I went back and watched them more as an adult and appreciated them more as an adult. So when Superman Returns came out, I rewatched all four. When the Blu rays that came out, I watched all of them. When man of Steel came out, I watched all of them. So I've seen them a good number of times at this point. And they are great. I think they're long. I think each of them has stuff that could have been cut to make for a more concise movie. Uh, but I think Christopher is fantastic. The special effects are great for the time and the budget, so I really have no complaints about them. What else stands out from them for you?

Well, I think before I had seen any of them, I had watched Batman 66, which I saw so early, the TV show and the movie. And these movies, or at least the first two, seemed like a little bit more subdued version of that show.

That might be part of it, too.

So much of that same DNA. And I was such a huge fan as a little kid of the Adam West Batman. So I think that's where I gravitated to them. And also, I loved musicals, and it has almost a feel of a musical. And in fact, the two of the guys that wrote the first movie and I think the second movie wrote the Superman musical. There is a Superman musical out there for people who don't know. It's a bird, it's a plane, it's Superman. They wrote that first, and then they got hired to write the movies along with Mario Puzzo, who created The Godfather. Weird combination of people there, but it has that kind of musical feel to it. In fact, there's frankly, it would have.

Been a lot more fun if it wasn't musical.

Well, there's that pseudo musical moment, too. Uh, can you read my mind? Where Lois is flying and you hear her thoughts and they're all in rhyme. And it's written by Leslie Bercuse, the songwriter who wrote Goldfinger and all this stuff. So there was actually intended to be like a musical moment. So that DNA is actually in the piece.

Yeah. So they're a fun world. And one day we're going to visit this world fully with the Superman 78 comic series. But let's move on to the pie. Is it the same world but is different enough? Supergirl from 84? I loved Supergirl, so whatever I was missing from Superman, helen Slater had it. And I'm sure it's Helen Slater and Faye Dunaway and the gay young me who just loved both strong women and campy women and maybe mean women. I don't know. I loved them all. Um, and Brenda Vicaro. It's such a good movie. I still think it's a good movie. I know people like to hate on it. It is fun and it's weird and dark and over the top, but not campy in a tongue in cheek way. So I love this movie. I still love this movie.

I had not seen this until several years ago when you showed it to me. This had escaped my viewing. But it's interesting because they took the DNA, especially with the villains, because you've got they done away. Kind of similar to Gene Hackman's lex Luther, brenda Vicaro is kind of a combination of Otis, Ned Beatty's, Otis and Valley Perine's miss Tessmacher as this secondary. So they were kind of taking, oh, let's transpose some of this over. And even in my head, I think I almost conflate The Legend of Billy Jean with this movie, putting all my.

Helen Slater helen Slater 80s film. I love the legend of Billy Jean. If only there was a Pat Benatar song in Supergirl, it would be perfect.

It feels weird that there isn't, actually.

So, yeah, I love Supergirl a lot more than I love the Superman's, and I highly recommend it. Talking about it, in fact, makes me want to watch it tonight. So prepare yourself. Let's move away from the super family to the, uh, quadrilogy that probably most people are ages, even though we're slightly different ages have the deepest connection to and that's Batman. So we have Batman, 89, Batman Returns, 92. And then, though differently casted, were theoretically the same universe. Batman Forever, 95, batman and Robin 97, definitely.

But there's other actors that are in all four of them. Michael Guff and Pat Hickel.

Maybe it was a multiverse before that.

They just carried over even Bob K's widow. She's in a whole bunch of them, too. Yeah.

This series I am the age for this series. I'm eight years old when Batman comes out. I reminded you yesterday when we were planning this episode, I have a newspaper clipping from my local town newspaper when I went to the movie premiere of Batman. I don't know why me and, like, three friends were photographed at the movie theater and put on the front page. That is the kind of small town I lived in. And I remember it well, and I remember loving it so much. I loved let's stay on the first one for a moment. I know we both have then important things to say about the other three, but the first one, I had the soundtrack on a cassette tape that I duped, like, I've somehow, for some reason, recorded someone else.

Or the prince.

No. The prince. No, the soundtrack, not the score. Uh, trading cards, everything. I mean, I was part of Batmania. So how about you? You would have come to this a little later because you are younger.

Yeah, my Batmania was Dick Tracy Palooza, which is such a related movie, down to the Danny Elfman score and a.

Lot of great companions.

But I remember my grandparents only had a few movies on VHS, and one of them was Batman. And that was the way I definitely saw this movie. I might have even seen it after Batman Returns I can't remember. Maybe I saw it beforehand, but I didn't even own it on VHS. So I only watched it at their house. And as someone who collects VHS now, gosh, I mean, that movie was that must have helped kick off the VHS, the home video revolution. Because that movie so huge. And if you go to any thrift store, you're bound to see a beaten up copy of Batman 89 there with that classic. And nowadays you would put all those actors photos on the COVID But it's that classic. Just the black cover with the gold back. That's all they sell. It realistic logo as a kid. It's where it's like, oh, that's all that's there. And then you get a little shot of Jack on the back. But that front cover is so sleek in that way.

Uh, yeah. And I really do think this movie is iconic for a reason. Not just nostalgia of our ages, but I think it balances a really dark, serious tone with comic books. Really well, I think Michael Keaton is perfectly cast and unexpectedly so. And I think that the music is great. I think the whole tone, I think this is such a great movie. It's not my favorite of the quadrilogy, but I think it is really great turning point in comic book adaptations.

Mhm. Yeah, I agree. And I mean, I'm a huge Jack fan in everything that he does. But to me, maybe, ah, in the wake of Heath Ledger, his Joker had been downgraded a bit. But I think he's just such a great Joker. I mean, yes, he is also just Jack, but that's also worked for that character, I think totally works well. Uh, and the lines, there are so many quotable lines from that movie, most of which he has that are just so great. And it gives it that comic book nest too. Because you see some of the later movies I think we're going to discuss, you don't have those lines where this, uh, whole town needs an enema kind of line that just gives it like this little bit of a comic book flair. It's not quite a joke, but it's not quite serious either.

Yeah. Now let's bring in the rest of the quadrilogy. So Batman returns. This is my favorite of these, uh, interesting. Yeah, I love this movie. I think every time I watch it, I enjoy it again. And for the same reasons as Batman 89. I mean, being the right age when it came out. I also saw this in theaters. Also collected everything about it. But I think it has two amazing, uh, villain stories. And I'm hard pressed to think of a performance that is on par with Michelle Pfeiffer cat in almost any comic book movie that ranks up there in top performances for me. So I, um, love this one.

Yeah. This one I did see in theaters. We pointed out I was very young. Like what? Like six when it came out, which is pretty young to see Batman Returns.

A movie where very adult. Every time we rewatch it, we note how adult it actually is with double entendres and such.

Yeah. And even as a kid, the one moment that I always had to look away was when the Penguin bites the guy's nose. That just got me as a kid. But I remember just being really into this movie. We went out to dinner afterwards, I think, from like a ground round or Charlie Brown's or something. And I had to drink water because that's what the Penguin drank in the movie. So, yeah. Uh, I don't know if I have where my favorite is, but yeah, such a great movie. And both the villains are great. And all three of the villains because Christopher Walken also super enjoyable.

True. And it's fun to have. I mean, I know the Christopher Eve movies have sequels, but as we talked about, neither of us were super into them. This was fun to have. The next chapter of Michael Keaton Batman. I wish it had gone on more. Which brings us to our next movie here. Which might be your favorite amongst these four, perhaps?

Well, definitely for nostalgia's sake, batman Forever, because this was the one. So I saw Batman Returns in theaters. But Batman Forever was the first one. Maybe one of the first movies, period, that I was all in on, where I had to have the companion guides. I read the novelization, the video game. I went to Taco Bell to do whatever the giveaways were at the time. I had to have everything that was related to this movie. So in my head, it's my favorite, even if it's not actually the best. I do love it.

Yeah, I mean, we know Joel Shahmacher gets a real bad rap and it's seen as too campy and all that. And I don't think that's really the problem. I just think there's nothing to sort of pull you into it. In my experience of it as an adult, it doesn't pull me in. I think I have no problems with Jim Carrey's performance. Or I have no problems with Tommy Lee Jones's performance. And obviously, Drew Barrymore and Debbie Mazar being in it is great fun. And I don't even know. I don't know, maybe George Clooney just doesn't do it for me because they're.

Just in this movie. But I think my favorite of I.

Forget that of these I don't know.

See, for me, of these three, Batman, he was my favorite. Yeah. I think he just weird. Suave well, Michael Keaton does the eccentric Bruce Wayne, but I thought he just did that kind of a loof rich guy thing so well. And I liked him as Batman. And I think the colkid mint's fun. And, yeah, Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carrey just trying to outdo each other and who can be bigger, which is enjoyable. And I think visually, it looks great. And I think now it's, uh, funny seeing it as a kid and now knowing that it was an out queer director making the movie. You can certainly see that. And I wonder if that was a reason why I liked it even as a kid. Certainly now, in terms of my aesthetic.

Well, and it also works even in this series because Tim Burton's aesthetic is over the top. It's perhaps more subdued. Or maybe it's not that it's more subdued. It's that it's more, uh, unified. Tim Burton's aesthetic. It's a, uh, more clear, cohesive vision, but it's over the top. So to me, it doesn't matter that this is also over the top in a different way.

And before we get to the last movie, I think it's interesting too, in terms of a multiversal talk or however you want to call this, because we have Michael Guff and Pat Hingel coming back as Alfred and Commissioner Gordon in this movie, even though our Batman is recast and there's no mention of Selena, Kyle, Vicky Vale, all that. So it's interesting, as you said, is this another universe? Or at the very least, even if it's within the same universe, this really still hadn't been done where we're keeping a few elements and changing out the rest. And it seems like something that's so much more common now as people are obsessed with some kind of continuity throughout.

It's an early recall kind of words of Scream Five. It's an early recall or Scream Six, whatever. Scream that was six. The last one on this. We don't have to spend a lot of time on Batman and Robin. I think it is as bad as people say it is. Batman Forever is not as bad as people say it is. Batman and Robin is it's messy movie that really does not work. I don't think, uh, Chris whatever his name is works. I don't think Alicia Silverstone works. I don't think Arnold Schwarzenegger too, um, well in this. I just don't think any of the elements work, really.

I loved it when I did first see it as a kid. And then I remember being one of the first movies I watched on video. And I guess as a budding film lover, I was like, wait a second. Wait. I thought this was good. And then you get all the puns. I mean, that's one of the big things. People always comment on the movie, especially Schwarzenegger's lines are all these puns. And I had read Nightfall already and realized that, wow, Bane is one of the greatest villains, or at least Batman villains of all time. And then you see him in this and it's like, wait, um, that's not Bane. So, yeah, not a great movie.

Uh, not a good ending to this chapter of the DC Universe movies. And then again, we're skipping over stuff that happens in between. But we're going to jump nearly a decade into what is definitely, I'd say, like, the iconic modern DC thing. I think it's probably actually deeply influenced by X Men aesthetically, at least. But DC, we have the Nolan trilogy now. Batman Begins, 2005, dark Knight 2008, dark Knight Rises 2012. And I'm fine with this, but I really don't like it that much. And I'm not afraid to admit that I agree.

I think Batman Begins is a pretty good movie. Although I don't think Liam Neeson's Raza Ghoul is really the character as he is in the comics.

No, he's not very interesting or seductive.

I love the David Warner, uh, interpretation on The Animated Series. To me. That is Raza ghoul. And I do think, then, The Dark Knight is a classic Heath Ledger. Great fantastic movie. And then The Dark Knight Rises, I think, is the first of what we'll see with the later DC movies where it seems like they had so many ideas, where the studio made the movie.

The studio wrote the movie, the studio edited the movie. And that you lose a vision, a, uh, director's vision, a writer's vision, sometimes even a performer. Like, you really lose that because the studio clearly was heavily involved.

Yeah, to me, Marion Cotillard and Anne Hathaway blend in as to one brunette white woman.

And we don't even need to talk about Tom Hardy. So, uh, again, we're not going chronologically. We're clustering these that we're going roughly chronologically because parallel to the Nolan trilogy, we have the attempt at doing the same with Superman, and we have 2006 as Superman Returns. Now, you suggested we should talk about this with the original Superman. And even though it's another recall, it is another example of a recall. It's a more clear recall, too, because they are I think what messes this movie up for me is that Brian Singer probably, maybe the writers are it's one of those cases where I think they're too big a fan of the original and they're trapping themselves by trying to pay so much tribute to the original. And I think Brandon Ruth is great. I love him in the CW shows as a different version of Cal. But this movie just it's fine. I don't dislike it. I don't hate it. But again, I don't think it works. I think it's sort of stuck in between what it could be.

Um, yeah, it's interesting. I think this movie, in some ways, was really ahead of its time, though, in being this kind of reek and basically okay. It's kind of like the third. It's basically doing what so many movies now, like the Halloween franchise and stuff we're doing, where it's okay. It's ignoring Superman Three and Four. Really. It's kind of a sequel to Superman Two, but at the same time, it's kind of its own movie because Parker Posey is playing Miss Tessmacher, but it's not the same character, but it's kind of the same character.

And real time has not passed, which is where Halloween and even scream when the total returns to Scream Four. The real time has passed.

And Lois has a child now, so it's consequence. The characters are aging in that way. But as you're saying, time is also not really passed. So it's very interesting. And then they, of course, have Marlon Brando in it. Well, the CGI Marlon Brando and the ramifications of that in some of the.

New because he's dead by 2006.

Yeah, it's interesting. So I think in that way, it really was ahead of time. And I can't really think of another example where it's sure, we've seen recalls and stuff like that, but the Halloween movie doesn't try to replicate Halloween. 2018 doesn't replicate the John Carpenter aesthetic like you're saying. Brian Singer is really just replicating the exact look and feel of, uh, 78.

Like ugly 2000 CG Sheen.

I enjoy this movie. It's been a while since I revisited it. And of course, one of the main actors and the director of both have had not so good years in between.

Well, I think they made bad decisions. Let's not call them not good years.

Yes, that's exactly. Speaking of bad decisions, the next movie.

Yeah, 2000 and eleven's, Green Lantern. We don't have to spend time on. It's clearly an attempt to develop another franchise, develop more heroes. Who knows if they would have connected the universes? But they're really trying here to start something big. And to me, I don't hate this movie. I think it's a little ugly. And I think it's another example of Warner Brothers just generic filler movie that clearly suffered a little in the editing room because it has no core and the story is sort of chopped together. Uh uh. It's weak, but it's not awful.

It's just weak. Green Lantern was an Sat question. I forget what these kind of questions were. It was me. Like Green Lantern is to fox's Fantastic Four because they have that same kind of aesthetic. Yeah.

Ah, I'd say Fantastic Four works a little better, but maybe it's just because it has more actors having more fun. And Green Lantern really, I think, just suffers because Ryan Reynolds is on his own, even though there's other people in the movie. But let's get to the core of our conversation in terms of leading us to our next segment, which is the modern Snyderverse DCEU. It's funny in here. Yeah. Because then, of course, there's things that are not DCEU. So I guess let's start with the Snyder verse, which we're saying kicks off with man of Steel in 2013, continues with Batman versus Superman. Maybe includes david. Ayre's suicide squad, but who knows? Includes Wonder Woman, Justice League, aquaman maybe includes Shazam, but not clear. And then the Wonder Woman sequel. And probably black Adam. Let's talk about Snyder's vision here before we get into some of the other things and move into our main segment.

Well, we were saying yesterday when we were talking about, uh. The Flash and getting ready for this episode. Uh, these movies just I can't even remember quite these movies. In fact, I kind of forgot that there was an actual Justice League movie, which, of course, other people love. There's the whole Snyder cut, and I wasn't really following that, but they all blend together. Like, I can't remember too much. The difference between Batman versus Superman versus the Justice League versus what happens in Manus Deal, they just all seem like one big blur to me.

And we have evidence of this with an extended cut of Batman versus Superman, and that total Justice League fiasco of Joss versus Zack Snyder, which is like, clearly these were more movies that were just spliced together in editing rooms. And Suicide Squad is a great example of that becoming, ah, absolute mess.

I always tell everyone I've never seen a movie that has been chopped up so much and to the to the point that it's almost like a lynchian.

Surreal in dream filmmaking.

But I think it's interesting about this. It tells you a lot about the studio because we're calling this the Snyderverse. And yet so many of these movies, they reedited their core architect.

Yes. I even wonder how much of his vision, too. You and I forgot which movie Barry debuted in, huh? So I wonder if we forgot those things because they were put in later or they were not even put in later. The decision had to have been made before shooting. But, like, they were not part of the original story that no one sat here and developed a story that we ended up seeing on screen. And I would hope Zack Snyder's fans would even say that, like, that his vision never made it to the screen. And I think that we can all agree on that. Now, man of Steel, briefly, since that kicks it off, I remember thinking, okay, man of Steel is potentially the beginning of something interesting. But that's my only thought. I remember when I saw it in theaters and then even rewatched it, I was like, okay, it didn't wow me. It didn't pull me in. I didn't hate it, I wasn't disgusted by it. I was just like, okay, maybe I.

Was just disappointed because I grew up on the Christopher Reeve movies and also really on the Lois and Clark TV show, which was all about the Superman Clark dynamic, and then the love triangle between two people. And this man of Steele basically dispensed with all of that. So to me, it was like, oh, that's not the Superman that I loved. Which, I mean, for me, it was hard for me to get into that.

Yeah. And I do think some of these Snyderverse or DCEU movies, I think work based on the actors. And I think Henry Cavill, while he has the look, does not have the charisma that Christopher Reeve had the charm. And I think the reason Wonder Woman was so well received, even though it's a good, not great movie. And Wonder Woman Two is uh, a fine not good movie at best, mediocre at best. But the reason they're so enjoyable is galgada. Like, she uh, gets to have a lot of fun. She's really charming, she's really charismatic, and.

You got a classic partner, straight man, funny person dynamic between her and Chris Pine. So she can play off of his being like the quick witted one and she can kind of be the serious one. And that works really well. And I don't think Henry Cavill was ever given that. Or really Ben Affleck, either.

No. When we get to the Flash, I think we'll talk about Ezra Miller and Ben Affleck a little bit more. Aquaman is whatever, I didn't like it, but whatever. Uh, too much CGI I just want to briefly say, I think the highlights of this era or the I should say highlight of this era is the movie that stands outside of it. To me. I think Birds of Prey, which maybe should it was going to be DCEU, maybe not, it's really unclear. Obviously having Margot Robbie in it was trying to link it, but then it's not totally clear if it would have if the DCEU had continued in its canonical state, if this would have led to more or not. But I think Birds of Prey is great. And James Suicide Squad, I think those are two movies where the director and the writer got to do something interesting, got to play, and you see great characters having fun. Comic bookie, action, drama, emotion, silliness, violence, everything you want to feel.

Comic bookie, which is the big thing that the Snyder films or the Snyder related films, the Patty Jenkins films too, don't really in many ways, no, they feel like video games or they feel so for serious at times. But when you think of Birds of Prey and the Suicide Squad, they feel super fun. And there's sequences. I can think of Harley when she totally married to the one guy, uh, beating them all in the police station.

When she starts hitting and all the smoke is all the different colors. Really such cool stuff in these movies. So the only other two things before we move on, we did not see Black Adam or Shazam Fury of the Gods. I'm sure we'll get bored one day and watch them, but we did not see them. So we're not talking much about them movies and get bored watching them. I think Shazam's fun. It was fine. It was more on the positive mediocre side. But mhm, there are two movies to mention briefly that are clearly not DCEU, never intended to be DCEU, existed during this era and probably will exist in a future era, which are Joker and the Batman. Matt Reeves. The Batman. So I never saw Joker. I never need to see Joker. I will probably never watch Joker. I don't know, if you have one sentence you'd like to say about Joker.

Watch the King of Comedy instead.

All right. Uh, and I have to say, even if I was, well, we'll talk about the future Joker, um, the Batman, matt Reeves, I think you and I both thought was good, had potential. We'd both like to rewatch again, but being the length that it is, we have yet to do. So, uh, I'm, um, fine with there being more of that vision of Batman, but we're not going to talk too much about it right now.

Sure. Well, I know what we will talk more about. It is a movie that just came out. So let us, uh, dive into the Speed Force and explore multiversity.

I am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question, what if?

And popping out of our secret compartment. In our ring is The Flash. Distributed by Warner Bros. And produced by Warner Bros. DC Studios, the Disco Factory and Double Dream from June 2023.

And this, uh, movie was directed by Andy Musketti, screenplay by Christina Hodgson, story by John Francis Daley, Jonathan Goldstein, and Joby Harold, based on characters from DC, produced by Barbara Musketti and Michael Disco.

Yes. And so this movie has a very long, twisted, uh, uh, history. We need Barry to jump back into the time warp to bring us all the way back to the 1980s, because DC first started working on a Flash movie in the late 80s with Jeff Johns. Then in 2004, David S. Goyer was hired to write a new Flash film in conjunction with Batman Begins, which he was also writing, which would have been.

So strange to try to match the Batman Begins tone with a Flash movie. But okay.

Then there were many, of course, that did not happen. Many, many fits and starts, including projects that were going to be directed by Sean Levy and George Miller and woods.

Justice League movie, of course, by George.

Miller and would be Flash's Ryan Reynolds, because if it's a superhero movie, ryan Reynolds has to be in it at some point. And Adam Brody, who definitely I could see that really fitting.

Yeah. And then with the creation of the DCEU in 2013, a Flash film got announced for 2016. There are, of course, a ton more delays that lead us to June 2023, where we're here now. Kirsty Clemens was cast by Director Rick Familia back in 2016 as Iris West. That's the Iris West that we know from this movie. So it just shows you this was a director strange world, uh, years ago. Was she stuck in her contract or did she want to return nine years later to this role? Who knows? In 2017, it was announced that the film would be based on Flashpoint. In 2018, John Francis Daley and Jonathan Goldstein signed on to write and direct. But there were more delays. And they still have story credits. But we don't know what happened. The Musketees joined the project in 2020 and then the film was ultimately announced for July 2022, but delayed yet again until June 2023, when it is now out. And we will now begin, uh, spoilers for The Flash from June 2023. So if you care about spoilers and don't want to hear them, then pause and return to this episode because we have a lot to say, especially about our main question and the multiverse and the future of these projects. But we're also going to give you our review of the movie. So go ahead and pause. Come back and listen. And Rob kick us off with general impressions of The Flash.

So this is a, uh, rare movie where you and I don't have the exact well, don't have the same opinion.

We often usually agree on you, but this is one of them.

I thought this was this a bad movie to me? No. Was this a good movie or great movie? No, I thought it was fine. I thought it was enjoyable. I mean, I frankly don't think I enjoyed it any more or less than I enjoyed Aquaman or some of these other DC movies like that. Or maybe some of the lesser Marvel movies.

That's because you went to the bathroom when we were seeing Aquaman in theater. You went to the bathroom during that damn Rose scene in Venice with Amber Heard and Jason momoa, uh, where it's just ridiculous. And one of them like, eats the bros. And you came back and I was like, oh, my god, you just missed the most absurd, ridiculous scene. And that is the only reason you're likening this movie to that one. Because that movie is much worse than.

This movie about restrooms in general. I did also have to go to the restroom during the Flash and you.

Missed the homage, uh, to Jack Nicholson in that.

Oh, my gosh.

M. I didn't even tell you. No, you don't even know.

But I think that's actually telling because I often find, like, in a Marvel movie, there's never a point. The story is so moving forward so fast that there's not a time where you can do that. Or at least for me. I'm just thinking back to M, how much I love Guardians volume three. And it's like, uh, no, I don't feel that. So I think that's just telling for me is like there are these gaps in the movie that it's like you're.

Willing to let your bladder win over the movie.

Exactly. But you liked it a lot more than I did. So what were your general impressions?

I did like it a lot. I'm very curious when I see it again, if I fine tune my opinion or end up cementing my opinion and kind of close to loving it. I mean, I'll never think it's the best movie or a great movie, but I think it's a really good movie. And maybe even my bar was lower, honestly. And that's part of why I was so surprised. But I think the thing that surprised me the most about the movie was that it had a lot of an emotional core and stakes that I felt, even though this was a character I didn't come into this movie caring about, it's not like from even from Ezra Miller's depictions. And I really like Ezra Miller's performance, regardless of who Ezra Miller might be as a person. I really like their performance as Barry Allen. But I did not come into this movie with any connection or relationship or investment in the character or the outcome. And yet I felt that the way it explores trauma and how we deal with trauma and what we can control, I thought was really powerful because it wasn't a heavy handed metaphor. I think even I know we'll talk a lot about the multiverse stuff, but the way it described Inevitable intersections just felt to me like this really powerful way of thinking about the things that are out of our control and the things that just happen and we can't do anything about them. And I thought it was just I was really moved by this a lot. I don't know, there was something about it. Again, it's not like I was connected to Barry's mother or anything like that, but just the whole way that Barry was navigating trauma. And even, I think since early on, the adult Barry, that we the older Barry, you see the way he's a little socially awkward and anxious and I don't know, there was something I thought that really gave this movie an emotional core. Frankly, I walked out of it, and I hold to this. A core that I think no way home lacked.

Yeah.

I think we talked about no Way Home on an episode, and you and I both were very lukewarm on that movie. But one thing I think The Flash did better, even if no Way Home is probably an objectively better constructed movie and has a better story. But I don't think the stakes in no Way Home mattered to me. And even Marissa Tomey's death in no Way Home felt cheap. And in this, I really did not feel I really felt the emotion of, um because I felt the metaphor of what can we control? What can't we? It wasn't the Speed Force. It wasn't like going back and saving his mother. It was really like, how much control can we exert over our life and the way we process trauma? So I like all that.

I mean, I was much more emotionally connected to no Way Home, although I don't think you can actually I don't think it's apples to apples because, of course, those are characters that we had had a lot more time to bond with than here because, yes, we had seen The Flash a little bit, but not really. So I think it's hard to really compare, even though those two movies do share so much DNA when it comes to the way that they're telling story and how they use fandom and the past to tell this new story.

Mhm yeah. And so on that, I think obviously before we get into the real multiversal dimensions of this movie, we have Michael Keaton's Batman. That is a core part of this film. And while it was spoiled in the marketing, and there is always going to be a part of me that wonders, what if you could have walked into this movie and not known that? I think your mind would have been blown, quite honestly. Which is cool to imagine.

Which we said the same thing about, uh, Toby and Andrew appearance.

Totally the same.

How if you saw that and suddenly they appeared, you would have just lost it. But of course, they couldn't keep it a secret. Same thing here. Yeah. You just, uh, wonder what the possibilities would have been.

Yes. But even in spite of that, I think it paid off, I felt. And maybe it was fan service and maybe even based on age, like I have a connection to the 1989 and 1992 things that imprinted on me more so than the 1999 or 2000 things, that imprinted of Toby Maguire. So I think that whatever it is, it worked for me. I loved seeing Michael Keaton. I thought it was so great to see the old Wayne Manor. Uh, I just thought every aspect of that I was like, oh my God, this is so cool. The lines, the throwbacks that they had. I loved seeing that.

I agree.

Enjoy it as much.

Yeah, I did it, it never felt like just in there for the sake of fan service. And I think we've seen that in used in other things. But I didn't think it was just like, oh, it's just there to have people go, oh, have that moment. I think it did work. And I thought it was a really fun to see him. And it's always a great character to kind of explore what happens when he is left alone because that's so core to who Batman is. But when you take away Alfred, this is also in the Batman 89 and 90, uh, Batman Returns. He doesn't have a robin. So here we're also seeing Bruce.

That's true.

Really? Being an older man, living alone. And what does that mean? How does that manifest itself now? So I thought it was great.

Yeah. And then we have a lot of other things we've talked about included in the end. So before we get to the multiverse and the implications, I think we should talk about the presence of Christopher Reeve and Helen Slater and Nicholas Cage and generic Jay Garrick and kind of Adam West. Kind of Adam West. These are Romero, the back of Henry Cavill.

These were, for me, were more of the antithesis of what I was just saying with Bruce, with Michael Keaton, but these felt more like, uh, this is fan servicey here. Oh, uh, we just want to see, uh did it bother me? No. I mean, I think for some people, it's going to be a lot of fun. Other people, it's going to be really cringe worthy and oh, should we be resurrecting dead people and putting them into movies? For me, I don't think I really cared one way or the other, but I don't think it really resonated with me. Or did it nor did it really add anything to the movie in my way. So neither here nor there.

I think what's interesting, what would have been cool, and we can't go back in time, and I'm glad that they exist, but I feel like the CW crisis on Infinite Earths, which is this is ultimately what this moment in this movie is, is the cris on infinite Earth. I feel like it did it so much better and it did it with I mean, Ezra Miller shows up in that, and in that Doom Patrol shows up and we have the guy who's in the Batman 89 movie reading the newspaper. Robert guy. So they already did it. And they didn't do it with CG because they didn't have a budget for CGI. Quite. So, I mean, it has CGI, of course, but it actually looked better because it was cheaper. I'd say. So I think what's hard is, like, they did it maybe if that didn't exist and even I think this is true for you, even though that series didn't stand out in your mind, I think if that didn't exist, this maybe would have been a more interesting exercise. Because, like, Marvel hasn't done this yet. Marvel hasn't done a moment where they showcase and pull from different worlds. The illuminati and multiverse of madness is not that I think the Spider neither is no Way home. Across. The spiderverse does. And that is the same month as.

The Flash had more impact if I literally had not seen that two weeks earlier.

Outside of across the Spiderverse being parallel.

To the that is also doing it with actual clips rather than deep fake technology, which you can have a moral question about whether it's right or not. But yeah, I think it had to also exist in order to tell the multiversal story that they were wanting to tell. Now, was it complete? No, we don't see Christian Bale. We don't see the CW show, which I mean, is maybe more excusable than Christian Bale because that is in movie. Movie dumb.

Christian Bale is a weird one. I don't know. I really wonder a lot about that whole sequence, like what the business side of it was. Knowing that a lot of Warner's decisions are I mean, every company's decisions are business oriented, but knowing that they don't let directors and creators have vision, as we've talked about that. I'm curious, was it in the script, who would be showing up and why? Uh, I doubt it. Because there wasn't a reason why even the Nicholas Cage, which I had a lot of fun with, uh, and obviously I'm familiar with Superman Lives and that whole movie and what happened with it. Why? Other than it's just fun? Why and if it was just fun, then why leave someone like Christian Bale out? Like, why not have it be comprehensive? If we're just doing this fun moment where we're going to see all these alternate Earths and let's say they want to keep us to movies with the exception of something like Batman 66, then why edit stuff out? So I don't understand it.

Yeah, well, in the same thing, reading a bit about the ending of the movie, which is related. So once again, we're in spoiler territory. But in the end, you see George Clooney come out and it's a really fun surprise. US both surprises, very fun moment. You know something's going to happen. And it was like, what's it going to be? But it is a fun moment. But I'm just reading about that, that at one point that Michael Keaton's character and Supergirl Cara were still going to be in the continuity. And then that was changed. At one point, Gal Gadot was coming in at the end of the movie. So you just know that they were changing this a lot. And I bet this, along, uh, with many of the other DC movies, like we were mentioning at the beginning, I think there's always some very interesting behind the scenes stories that I don't think you're probably getting get from the Marvel movies quite the same way.

Well, and what I read about those endings was the one we ended up with, which I think is the best of all of them was James Gunn. Was Hem coming in? And it was after he took over in the studio with is he Peter Saffron that he's yeah, Peter leading him with. So Hem and Peter Saffron had made the decision since this world was not going to really continue, we didn't need to see Cara again, we didn't need to see Henry Cavill, we didn't need to figure out all these different potential endings. They just said, let's have fun. And actually, I think James Gun or Peter Saffron personally showed the movie to George Clooney and said, would you do this for us? And he said yes. And I love that. Because what I felt about the ending of the movie was I felt totally satisfied that I never need to see this world again. We got out of it that Barry messed up what he understood to be continuity, what he understood to be history. He messed it up. Okay, that's it. It's just going to stay there now. There is just all these different worlds. It feels like, to me, like some of the crises, events in DC Comics where it's just like we're just going to explode the world. And sure, it's ugly and there's these pieces and these pieces and these don't fit and it just is just accept it and you move on.

And I think it works because it's also actual George Clooney. And one of the reasons why some of the other stuff doesn't work is because it is this questionable CGI. And I think a lot has been written about the level of CGI, which I thought was kind of, uh, comically bad at points, although they want to say maybe it was the choice. But I think that's the thing that actually works really well in no Way Home as well. It's actually Toby and Andrew, and Toby is that much older and they have some lines about my back hurts and stuff like that. So, uh, it feels very organic in that way. But when you see Nicholas Cage and it's obviously Nicholas Cage as a 40 year old man instead of a 60 year old man, it's like, oh, okay, I don't know.

So while I am satisfied with that being the ending, there might be more. And let's talk about the implications of the multiverse this sets up. And the metaphor of our question on our episode today. Is the multiverse a bowl of spaghetti?

So let us slurp up our spaghetti bowl of pondering and a lot of tomato sauce connection lots of tomato sauce into pondering possibilities. Will the future you describe be averted? Diverted. Diverted. So Gito, what spicy meatball are we talking about for our pondering possibilities?

Well, we're going to talk about the future of the DC Universe on film. But before we do that, let's talk about if the multiverse is a bowl of spaghetti and let's talk about that moment. So what we're referring to still in spoiler territory, clearly. So if you skipped over, you're still there because Michael Keaton describes the multiverse to Ezra Miller Batman Two Flash as a bulb of spaghetti. They're sort of using the hard spaghetti to talk about crossing lines. And that the same sort of spiel we got in Avengers Endgame, which is that time is not linear. Back to the Future is not the way time actually works. But in this case, he says they overlap, they break off each other, they don't connect, and then he just shows the bowl spaghetti. And that's the explanation. So what is something you were going to say, something you liked about that?

I think this is one of the things that the flash does the best of the movie is some of the explanation for multiverseness and also the reason to set up diverseness sure.

Diversity. Yeah, we don't have a podcast about this exact subject. Yeah, you mhm don't need to make up words.

I think it's one of the best things that the movie does in terms of explaining. And I think that scene is very good. It actually made a lot more sense to me than the explanation in Endgame?

Well, because Endgame, I think, goes for the actually scientific explanation, which hurts my brain. And I've read like, Brian Green's books about these kinds of questions, and it still hurts my brain.

Yeah, and Steve going back to deliver the gem.

It'S hard when you try to hold it to actual M scientific, rational explanation. So I agree. I actually think it's a little bit of a meta thing, and I think it's I don't know if it's James Gun set up or not, but I think it sets us up really well for what James Gun is going to bring, because it's just Michael Keaton's Batman saying, like, whatever. There's just this bowl of spaghetti. Everything twists and turns and it's messy and it lays on top of each other and some of it is the same as something else. So I love that. That's part of why what I was saying about the George Clooney showing up at the end. I'm just satisfied. I don't need to see that world. There's not a prime canon, a prime continuity. I think what Marvel is doing is trying really hard to maintain a prime continuity, what they're calling like the sacred timeline. And I think this movie is not doing that. What I like is that then that's where that inevitable Intersections piece comes in. Because there are these things and we talked about this in our actually our across the Spiderverse episode that we put up on our Omniversity bonus feed when we talked about that. What that movie does well and what Spider Man as a character why it lends itself to so many variants is because all you need is a spider and a bite and mhm someone gets powers. And you can transpose that into dozens of different origins. And it's cool, we all recognize it, but you can put a lot of variety in it. And I think that's what the inevitable Intersections is doing and what this bowl of spaghetti multiverse is saying is like, mhm, there will always be a barrier. Allen well, it actually doesn't even have to be Barry. There will always be someone getting struck by lightning and getting the powers of the Flash, but that's it. Beyond that, you can do anything with it. It can be any actor, it can be any character, it can be any time period. It can be all these different things. And I think that's a really great way to move this film slate forward.

It is funny that you had these two movies come out so close that have such a similar explanation for the multiverse in that as you're saying, we're always going to have this one event I forget what they're calling them in across the Spiderverse. Right? But they have like, that there's always going to be these inevitable was it sacred?

No, the sacred timeline is Loki.

Yes, that's loki.

I wish I could remember, too, when they're watching all those stitches with Miguel.

But those inevitable events, I think it's such a great way of explaining it. And it's interesting. And maybe because the movie studios never seem to want to mention the comics as much as they should, or especially Marvel. And it is just so funny and that they are replicating the way that the comics treat these universes.

Yeah, especially now, I've said this for the better part of three, four or five years, that I think DC is in a great comic book position for creativity and has far surpassed Marvel. Even though I am a marvel boy. True and true. Because they do these miniseries and they do these parallel series and they don't all tie in right now. There's this awesome series called Superman Lost about this moment where Superman got lost in space and like, what happened? And who cares if it's canonical or not, if it's in prime continuity. It's an awesome, awesome story that someone's telling. And I love that they've done that with all of their titles, where they'll just they have many Wonder Woman running around. You have a yara floor and you have nubia, and you can tell these different stories. And some of them are part of canon, some of them aren't. And so I think this is setting up the movies to do the same thing, which we know James Gunn has said he will do in else worlds and wants to do that. So why don't we look at what's coming, what we know is coming and talk about it?

Yeah. So first up is Blue Beetle, which is later this year.

And then we have Aquaman Two. Aquaman in the Lost Kingdom, also due this year.

Then Joker.

Neither of us speak French.

No. The gaga joker exactly.

Which is 2024. And so then in 2025, we have the Batman Two, though that's not going to be part of the new, uh, main story. But Superman legacy will kick off chapter one, gods and Monsters, according to James Gunn. And that chapter will include the authority, the brave and the bold supergirl woman of tomorrow. Swamp Thing and five different TV series. Creature commandos, Waller, Lanterns, paradise Loss and Booster Gold. Some of which are due to start next year. Now, I'd imagine Writer Strike is getting.

Us all of, uh, the history of the Flash. One of the reasons one of the many Flashes was derailed at some point was because of previous WGA strikes. Now, with both the WGA and maybe SAG as well, I think 2024 seems like a very lofty start date for yeah, agreed.

So it's interesting because, uh, even the fact that Superman legacy is due actually before the Batman, too. Matt Reeves is the Batman. So it's clear that James Gun is making good on what he said, which is that these movies can all just coexist. There could be a third Joker after the next one, for all we know. And it won't matter if it's tied in and you won't even need a movie to reference that movie. We don't need some multiversal moment like the Flash had or like, uh, across the Spiderverse had. Like, you don't need those moments anymore. You just let the things be.

That's what I'm really hoping for is that going on. They're going to have the main timeline, your gods and monsters timeline. And then you're going to have these other movies. And I just really hope that there's never any reason to ever add in, oh, we're on this Earth or and never have, oh, here's Rob Pattinson making a cameo, but in the sky in some other movie. Like, I just want them to not even worry about the multiverse now. And I kind of think that was what they were doing with the end of the Flash here where it's like, okay, we kind of did set this up, but we're not going to be telling multiversal stories. That's going to be Marvel's thing. Marvel has gone all in on what is the multiverse. And it's all about what they're trying to do with Kang.

Yeah, I think that will be fun for this future. And I wouldn't mind. I mean, even with The Brave and the Bold, I think really lends itself to, I could imagine almost a series of movies where Batman teams up and maybe in 15 years I don't know if Robert Pattinson is still Batman, but, uh, let's say someone else is Batman in the gods and monsters storyline. Maybe there's a Brave in the Bold where, like, the Batman of many Earths come together to fight together. That would be fine with within a.

Series as opposed to that, oh, now we need to explain how all of.

These things and not an event like, yeah, it doesn't need to be the end of the multiverse or the birth of the multiverse. It doesn't need to be anything. It's just like, hey, I wouldn't mind sometimes a crossover. I think if we ever get our long dreamed about Marvel versus DC movie crossover, I think it'll be that it's not going to be some big event thing. It's going to be like, hey, let's just find a simple day UX machina to drop these characters in a story together and then pull them out at the end. And that's it.

Mhm, are there any of these upcoming projects that you're especially excited for?

The Authority.

I know quite what that is.

The authority is really cool. Dark. Mostly Warren Ellis written uh, but later Grant Morrison written story. But it stars the gay analogues of Superman and Batman who are married. So Apollo and Midnighter are kind of like, uh, Watchman style riffs on those core characters because this was a series that was started at Wildstorm, so before DC bought them. And I think that's so awesome and I just can't wait. That is going to be the coolest thing. And if they infuse it with especially like the recent Superman and The Authority, Grant Morrison written series with kind of a British punk edge and technopunk in amongst these superheroes who have elements of the Boys series but aren't as hyperviolent or anything like that. I think the Authority will be really cool. How about you?

Well, it's Been forever since I've seen the Wes Craven Swamp Thing film. And you and I didn't really watch the Swamp Thing TV show. I think we tried to watch like an episode. So I think that would be something very interesting just to see how it comes back and see something with some horror elements. Because I think despite the fact that West Craven directed Swamp Thing, it's not very horror esque. So that would be something I would love to see, is them kind of imbuing this with some, um, horror tropes.

Yeah, I agree. I think that's what's cool about this slate, even though even of the Connected slate, like, we don't even know what the elseworlds movies are, right? Other than the Batman Two and Joker Two in French, we don't even know what other else worlds things there are. So there could be some that are horror. There could be some that are different genres. But even outside of that, these themselves that he announced are clearly different genres. Again, Punky Edgy, Brave, and the Bold could be real classic superhero duo. Supergirl woman of tomorrow. Same thing. Swamp Thing. Could be horror.

And Lanterns, they kind of described as true detective, a police detective, right?

Booster Gold is, of course, going to be comedic. Paradise Lost is going to be some high fantasy. So they're already doing a ton of different genres. And again, that's just this one part of the world and the story. We don't even know what the kingdom come movie will be like that we've been talking about for months and dreaming of.

And do you think going back kind of to The Flash and to multiverses, do you think we will see this Barry Allen ever again? Do we think we'll see Ezra Miller portraying this character or any of these other characters that were in this film?

No, I don't. And I don't even think it has to do with Ezra Miller being someone that they might not want to cast again. I think the inclusion of George Clooney really, to me, felt like they're putting a pin in this. They're saying that's it this world. Is it enjoy. And now I think even Aquaman Two, I think if they have hope of more Jason Momoa Aquaman beyond that, which I don't know that they do, but if they do, I think it will need to just be his stories. It will need to be that part of the world. They're not going to be able to have Barry in it. They're not going to be able to have the incredibly boring Ben Affleck in it. They're not going to be able to have Gal Gadot in it because Gal Gadot is not going to be the Wonder Woman that we get elsewhere eventually.

And Aquaman is actually a character that's easier to do that with because he can be in the sea and he doesn't have to be in Gotham City.

There's a whole entire world and mythology and conflict that you can do with him that doesn't involve the heroes themselves. I do think that was the end of that universe. The Flash.

Poor Kirsty. Clemens. She's cast in 2016 as Iris West, and she's like, great, I'm going to have all these amazing romance. That's wonderful. It's played out for nine years on the TV show. Um, awesome. And now she's in, like, two scenes of this new movie with absolutely nothing to do, being a bad reporter, and that's it. And now we'll never see her again.

The Snyder cut restoration of Justice League, but yeah, agreed. Anything else to say about the future of the DC Slate and the bowl of spaghetti of the multiverse?

No, I'm just ready to slop it up.

Well, don't forget the tomato sauce.

Is that the end of the episode?

That is not a wrap, because, as we mentioned, we have these bundles we're giving away for our centennial summer for 100th episode. And why not? Of course. Give away our DC U DC movie. DCEU DC spec bundle. So, as we mentioned before, we have a Marvel Spec bundle, a DC Spec bundle, an else World's What If bundle, and a signed comic bundle, all to give away to our listeners this summer. And before I tell you what's in our DCU Spec bundle, Rob, why don't you tell people how they can enter to win this one?

So, to win the bundle that Keto is going to announce, you just need to review us this month. So that's right. Send us a screenshot of your review dated from June 2023 from Apple podcasts. Or if you've been an amazing listener and you've already reviewed us, uh, on Apple podcasts, please review us somewhere else, like on Good Pods or Spotify, and take a screenshot of that review and send it via DM M on Twitter or Instagram to Dear Watchers or Email podcast@dearwatchers.com.

So that is how you enter. And what you'll be entering for is at least nine comics. We might throw in another one or two that we find before we send this out that you will get. That includes some of what we hope or imagine might show up in the DCU. So we have Superman 123 glow in the dark debut of the Electric Blue Superman. I don't know if we'll see him on screen, but James Gunn is quirky, and I could see him imagining an Electric Blue Superman at some point. We also have the Adventures of Superman 501, which is the first appearance of Superboy connor Kent. We have Justice League of America Zero, where they define who is in the team. In one of the early 2000s reboots of the title. We have Wonder Woman number eleven from the 80s because it's George Perez. And I think if there's anyone they're pulling inspiration from for that Paradise Lost series, it's probably going to be Perez. We have Supergirl number three because she goes up against guerrilla grad, so that's just fun. We have the recent but really undervalued Superman and the Authority number one. And if I had to guess, that is going to tie into the Authority and the Superman legacy movies that are coming up, written by Grant Morrison, who I think will have a big influence being the architect of multiversity. On this upcoming DC Slate, we have Batman Legends of the Dark Knight number 55. Great art from the early 90s. Nothing too remarkable, but it's just really pretty. And there's lots of machine guns. We can assume there will be machine guns in Matt Reeves movie, so enjoy that. We have Aquaman Time and Tide Number One. This is more less of a spec and more of a current title because it's Aquaman teaming up with the Flash, which you get to see in the stinger of the movie. And we have Animal Man number 57, the really famous, very meta textual, fourth wall breaking Grant Morrison series. And I would be shocked if James Gunn keeps steering the DCU if Animal Man does not show up at some point because that is a James Gun character if ever there was one. So get those comics sent to you free with the instructions that Rob just gave you. That's right. We just need your screenshot of a June 2023 review for us. Thank you. And now that is actually a wrap. So, dear Watchers, thank you for listening. Thank you for entering the giveaway. Thank you for sharing about us. I have been Guido.

And I have been Rob Bat.

Oh, yeah, I was long haired Keto. That's right. Right.

Yes. Now you'll be short haired Keto wonder.

Um, soon, the reading list for this episode, which is actually a viewing list, is in the show notes and you can follow us on social media, uh, at, uh, Dear Watchers, and well, leave.

A review, of course, wherever you listen.

To podcasts because that's how you launch this giveaway.

And we'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.

In the meantime, in the words whoachu. Keep pondering the possibilities. M.