Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

>> Rob: Had a challenging week. We'll get ready for something fantastic. We're going amalgam, baby. Welcome to Deer Watchers, an omniversal comic book podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

>> Guido: We are traveling with you through the stories and the worlds that make up an omniverse of fictional reality as we all love. And your watchers on this journey are. I don't know. I didn't come up with something. But those of us who've skirted to death recently are me, Guido, and me, Rob.

>> Rob: And special returning guest. It's Ethan from Make Mine amalgam on his 11th visit, at least. Welcome, Ethan.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Hello. Or Uatu's a guardian again.

>> Guido: That's right. We forgot that you are the one cataloging the amalgam worlds. And who's on your shirt today? I see it's Galactus.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I have Galactus and Silver Surfer. And it is like.

>> Guido: Oh, it's a cheeky version.

>> Rob: Nice.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: But what's cool is that the wood kind of looks like a skull, and it's like Galactiac.

>> Guido: It is. That's what I was like. Did he find a sweatshirt with the character that we're talking about today? That would be amazing. But you probably would have to make it yourself, I suspect.

>> Rob: Yeah, I have a shirt somewhere that has Silver Surfer on it, and it says, I love surfer boys. I think I have to dig that out. I don't know where that is.

>> Guido: I don't remember seeing that. I think that's been gone for a while.

>> Rob: Many years ago. And they be.

>> Guido: But youth can. Welcome back. We're so glad to have you. We've been trying for a while to schedule it so.

>> Rob: And before we begin our trip into the, unknown. O, Guido, what's new in our little.

>> Guido: Section of the multiverse before we are challenged by the unknown, or we challenge it, I guess, is the way it's supposed to work. And so while this episode is coming out right when Fantastic Four released, there are no spoilers for Fantastic Four. None of the three of us have seen it, so there can't be spoilers. So if you're listening to this after the movie has come out, which you would be, because this episode's coming out after the movie came out. Don't worry. There's no spoilers here for Fantastic Four. But is everyone excited for Fantastic Four?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Big time.

>> Rob: Yes.

>> Guido: Great. Well, do listen.

>> Rob: That didn't sound it, but surea.

>> Guido: Our last episode was on Superman. Silver Surfer, which is a great companion because month since this month, July 2025, has these dueling crossover kind of Marvel DC movies. We keep digging into Marvel and DC a bit this month, which is what brings us to today. But before we get into today, an update on my overall life Grail quest of every X Men ever. I'm down to 17 books that I need. That's it.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Congratulations.

>> Guido: Yes, thanks. We stopped at, a yard sale from Marrino's Collectibles in Koksacki, New York and got one more just this weekend. And so I'm down to seven teen books.

>> Rob: The single digit books we'll say weren't out on the table at theard sale. They weren't there. But he had lots of other comics. Meriinos'collectibles had lots of other comics there. And then he was like, are you guys real collectors? And yes, he was like, I got the good books in the back.

>> Guido: I know.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Nice.

>> Guido: Yeah. But, but don't worry because I don't. My life doesn't need to come to an end. When I finished this girlail quest, I did just identify what my next big question is going to be.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And what does that.

>> Guido: First I have to finish X Men. I decided I'm actually pretty deep into Wonder Woman. I have everything post crisis on and so it's just pre crisis, but that's a big feat. I'm gonna need to like win the lottery at some point to really go there. Since she started in the 1940s, it's a little different than the X men in the 1960s.

>> Rob: But, are you counting her first appearance or you're just going toa count when it's Wonder Woman in the title.

>> Guido: Into title, but that still is the 40s and it's. And her early books are pretty affordable. They're just hard to find. obviously her number one is astronomical, even more than X Men. But beyond that, they're pretty, pretty reasonable, relatively speaking. So anyway, I think Wonder Woman will be next because I also suspect that I will love the Wonder Woman in the new James Gundn DC universe because I'm loving everything as it is already. I think that will be a great version of her when we finally see her, which I'm hoping is sooner rather than later.

>> Rob: And if you, if you are joining us for the first time in Guido's Grail Quest, AKA the Deer Watchers podcast, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse today. Origins of the Story, Exploring multiversity and pondering possibilityilities. So thanks for coming along.

>> Guido: Yes. And remember, leave us a five star review wherever you're listening. And you can find all of our past episodes, including Ethan's 11 or 10 other appearances, at, deerwatchers.com doa just click episodes and you can search through them.

>> Rob: And with that, welcome to episode 165. And let's check out what's happening in the Omniverse with our travels, today's alternate universe. And today, we are answering the fantastic question.

>> Guido: That's a little basic for you.

>> Rob: I. I weren't trying fantastic us. Today, we are traveling in challenging the unknown. No, that's too on the nose. Well, anyway, the question is, what if the Fantastic Four return from their travels without superpowers, only to battle at amalgam of Galactus and Brainiac?

>> Guido: What if, indeed, What a question. This is, of course, the amalgam universe. It's part of why Ethan's here, though we love to have him anyway. But, oh, yeah, it's hard to cover amalgam without Ethan of make mine amalgam. So the amalgam universe we have covered, it's of course, in marvel nomenclature. Earth 9 and 62 or 960 2. We've covered it a few times. Not as many as you'd think. We're sort of dlling it out a little sparingly. we will continue to cover amalgam, but our first coverage was Spiderboy back on episode 36. We covered Dr. Strangefate on 44, Speed Demon on 55, Dark Claw on 73, Amazon on 130, an iron lantern on 141. And you know what our episodes about those are evergreen. So go listen to them for the first time or listen again. We give a lot of backstory. We're not gonna do a deep dive here that we will talk about the future of amalgam, but go get the backstory of amalgam in some of those episodes.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I think we also did one.

>> Rob: Oh, yeah, go ahead.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Sorry. We also did one with, the Animated Series, Dark Claw.

>> Guido: Yes, yes, we did. That's true. Yeah, we covered Dark Claw after Kevin Conroy passed away.

>> Rob: And we got to talk about Claw yesterday. Guido, when we were at the yard sale, the person you bought the X Men comic from brought up Darklaw. I would imagine Ethan Darklaw is probably the amalgam character that most people know. What do you think?

>> Guido: Well, he combines the two most popular, right?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, that'true. If people do know amalgam, surface level. I say that lovingly. we don't gate keep here. but funnily enough, no, I did. I was talking comics with somebody A couple years ago, and they said the most obscure character they knew, and they said, oh, well, it's this guy named Darkclaw, and he. Wolverine. I said, oh, my gosh. I'm in. I'm all in with this conversation.

>> Guido: That's funny.

>> Rob: Yeah, yeah. The characters they're not mentioning probably are the Challengers of the Fantastic. That's probably not the best known.

>> Guido: Well, what's funny is I bet the Challengers, the Fantastic, are better known than the Challengers of the Unknown. O Big that's the funny part about what we're covering today.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: When I first read this book years ago, caus. I've read it a couple times now. but when I first read this, that's how I discovered the Challengers of the Unknown.

>> Guido: Right, right. Gateway. Yeah.

>> Rob: Well, and I read it and I didn't even discover the Challengers of the Unknown. I don't even think I took that extra leap to like, oh, who are they Amalglam mated with in this. But anyway, but we do have two groups today. Fantastic Four, but we've talked about them.

>> Guido: Talk fantast. We've talked about our backgrounds with Amalgam.

>> Rob: So let us talk about our backgrounds with the Challengers of the, Unknown.

>> Guido: How much time you got?

>> Rob: Have I have all four of their faces tattooed on my body? Do you, child?

>> Guido: I bet someone does.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I named my famous speedster after Ace.

>> Guido: Oh, there you go. There you go.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: No, I didn't, I didn't.

>> Guido: It wasn't. No, just a coincidence.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Wanted to throw that in there.

>> Rob: Well, Ethan, you just mentioned that after reading Challengers that Fantastic, you did familiarize yourself with Challengers of the Unknown. So what is your background with this semi forgotten, let's say D.C. team U?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: my familiarity is that I think it's cool that Jack Kirby kind of did, An Adventure team twice, and one of them stuck, and so then they honored that with this amalgam. M.

>> Guido: But, I am assuming the amalgam was your first introduction to the team.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Oh, absolutely.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So same for all of us, I suspect, for everyone out there. You haven't heard of Challengers of the Unknown.

>> Rob: Yeah, and I was a rabid DC who's who reader growing up, so I knew some of the teams like the Doom Patrol without actually ever reading their comics. But I think that's because if you just look at a picture of the Doom Patrol, like Negative Man, Robot man, like, they stand out like you remember them without even reading their comics, and here it's like four to five people wearing pink jumpsuits. They're all white. They all kind of look the same. Like this is not, you know, when you're just looking at that page in D.C. who's who. It's not like gonna doesn't pop out sticking in your mind years later.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, I suspect I was definitely the same challenges as the Fantastic being my entry point. And then I also probably never followed up. They haven't had, we're going to go through their publication history. They haven't had a lot. I did read their title over the last year and I'll mention it briefly in our history, but outside of that I really could not have told you anything about them probably until I read that miniseries that started at the end of last year. I probably couldn't have told you anything about them. So.

>> Rob: Well, yeah, and it seems people don't even know who created them necessarily. So let's jump in there with Origins of the Story.

>> Guido: Right now on this.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Very show you're goingna get the answer to all your questions.

>> Rob: Our amazing story begins a few years ago.

>> Guido: So we'll do a little background before we dig into the issue we covered here. So on the origin of this story, Challengers of the Unknown, various sources. This is of course the era we've covered a lot when DC and Marvel were not crediting creators. And various sources will credit the soul creator as Jack Kirby, but it might be a co creator with writer Dave Wood or maybe even Joe Simon, Kirby's partner. So it really interesting and it just shows how these characters did not take off because if they had taken off I think we would have known because people would have claimed that. Right. But no one was stepping forward to sue for the rights to Challenges of the Unknown at any point. So it is a bit of a mystery who created it with Kirby, if anyone. And we will talk about that original series from 1957 in just a moment. Kirby moved on really quickly after writing a few issues of it with co creator Bob Brown who created Beast Boy and Talia Al Ghul succeeding he. And it lasted through issue 77. But it was an anthology book anyway so they were not always the focal point. And in addition to the four core members, there were introduced a, Red Ryan's brother when he was temporarily killed for a bit. And then there were also two women added to the group. An occultist, Karina Stark and a tech whiz, June Robbins, who was more of an unofficial fifth member in that original run.

>> Rob: And they use their money from these adventures to build Their headquarters, Challengers Mountain in the Colorado Rockies. You can actually see speaking of DC who's who, a diagram of it in D.C. who's who. And I love that despite the fact that they built this entire headquarters out of a mountain, there's actually still only two bedrooms. So the members still have to share bedrooms. June does get her own room, but the other guys are sharing rooms.

>> Guido: Wow. Well, maybe whoever design Challengers Mountain was queer coating them a little bit.

>> Rob: Yeah, exactly. And I also want to highlight some of their villains. So like many heroes from this era, they fight a lot of Nazis. There's lots of Nazis in there. Also a fair share of Egyptian and eastern inspired villains, which probably wouldn't necessari necessarily passing muster today, let's say. But there are some other fun ones. So there's Vilo, who's just described as the world's vilest villain, and then want to look into true to DC, there's lots of misters. So there's Mr. Dimension, who's a vagrant who stole a dimensional weapon from a time ship. Mr. Merlin, an alchemist who unleashes a plague of zombies. And probably my most favorite of all, Mr. Tic Tac Toe, a criminal who uses traps with a tic tac toe motif.

>> Guido: Wow. Gosh, Ethan, these are going to be some characters to find some, Hasbro or McFarlane or actually Mattel has the future DC license for figures. See if you can get some of these figures made.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Hopefully. I'm getting Major Hanna Barbera vibes.

>> Guido: From Are they do sound like that gang.

>> Rob: And their most famous villain, probably the only one, maybe any of you listening or you on, this podcast have heard of is Multi Man. He's a supervillain who gains a different form every time he dies. So he can get like underwater powers. Then he dies and he becomes like a psychic. Then he becomes super strong. I think he's still around to this day. He was also the leader of their enemy group. And this is a very awkward name. League of Challenger Haters.

>> Guido: I don't know how if it's awkward, it's really just on the nose. Right?

>> Rob: It's very.

>> Guido: It would be like if instead of Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, it was like Brotherhood of X Men hating mutants.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Like Superman Revenge Squad.

>> Guido: Yeah, exactly.

>> Rob: W. Aside from this main group which we're going to talk about. So they had brief appearances also in Elsewhorld Minise series Conjurers at an alternate DCU where magic is part of the mainstream society, then they are also part of DC's weirdo verse. Do you know this, Ethan? The Weirdo Verse. This was like a series of four different titles about like a cult themed books in.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: It's not bringing anylls.

>> Guido: It's interesting. They always put them alongside magic. including in this first issue we're going to talk about in just. That's true. So.

>> Rob: Well, in this Weirdo Verse series that was just 18 books and they did this is a new team. They diversified the group. So there's a Japanese American character, an African American character. They're all still survivors of a plane crash. And the writer Steven Grant of this actually said this was conceived as the basis for a TV series. Which is very interesting because in 96 you weren't thinking too many. It was like the Flash with John Wesley ship. Like that was like it.

>> Guido: And I guess well pro because they don't have superpowers. There weren't the budgetary constraints that kept a lot of comic books from being adapted.

>> Rob: And they're exploring the cult. So it's got that kind of X I guess. And Stephven Grant actually says trying to pitch a concept built around for aging white guys to a TV market got focused on youth audience and pushing a veneer of multiculturalism would have been flat out stupid. A waste of everyone's time and money. So they were a little kind of ahead of the curve in actually diversifying this team in the 90s there. And they're actually being chased by the last survivor of this plane crash. And after that comic series was canceled, the characters actually did not appear in any comics until 2011's New 52 event. And then they kind of reverted back to the original version of the team.

>> Guido: There was a 2004 Howard Chin group that this time they survived a terrorist attack. Of course. Howard Chakin dealing with current event politics. In 2004 that was a six issue miniseries. And then just last year, as I mentioned, they're back for a D.C. all in era, five issue miniseries that tied really into the core main universe. I'm not even going to spoil it for people who haven't read it because it got me a little more interested in them. And I'll just say it has to do with within D.C. all in. Obviously the big thing for those who haven't read an issue that's a year and a half old is Darkseid Dies and the release of Omega Energy dissipating in the universe ties into the challengers and their relationship to death. So it's a pretty cool way to explore their origin and how it could relate to the universe. So I enjoyed that five issue series. But why don't we go into their original origin and see what we thought about it real quick.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: There actually is another one, from the era where they did all these like Marvel pastiche books like with damage and sideways and all that. It was called New Challengers. O and oh, was that the.

>> Guido: One Robin was in?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I don't think Robin was in it, but there was a guy from another Kirby book from first issue special called Dingbats of Danger street and he was grown up and he was a member of the team.

>> Guido: Oh, fun.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I just figured with that Kirby connection we had to include that one.

>> Guido: Yeah, that's a good one. We had seen that the team name had been used by a few other.

>> Rob: Like a few other one. I guess it's just like at one point they were like we you own this trademarks so let's put whoever do something with it. Nobody knows who they actually are. But anyway, let's go to their beginning. This is Showcase Volume 1, issue number 6 from DC Comics, February 1957. And the story is called the Secret of the Sorcerer's Box.

>> Guido: And that writer maybe was Dave Wood. Who knows? Whoever it was, they wrote a lot of words on those panels though I'll tell you that the penciller was Jack Kirby, the inkeor was Roz Kirby with Marvin Stein and the editor was Jack Schiff. And this is their origin and first appearance. And a real quick summary. Basically the they four characters are considered heroes in their fields of it's boxing, science, U ace pilot. And what's the fourth one? Diving. He just diving.

>> Rob: Well, the diving is also, I think the eng is also the scientist as well. I think that the other guy is like oh, oh, he's an acrobat.

>> Guido: Great. He's an acurate. So they're all on a plane. The plane crashes and they mysteriously all are alive unscathed. With the most important point seeming to be that their watch still works after the plane crash. Not that they're alive, but that their watch still works. And they decide that because they've skirted death, they are going to now challenge the unknown. And that's their mission. Their first mission in that is encountering a sorcerer who has a box. And he wants these four people who love to skirt danger to go into the four compartments of the box to retrieve a treasure. It's a very strange setup, but that is the kickoff to their origin. Who wants to start with just what you thought of reading this? How did you enjoy it?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I'm gonna go back to the Hanna Barbera, comparison. Yeah, it, it felt very Hanna Barbera. Kirby certainly loves to use Merlin, in his stuff because also when we talked about Etchrn, Merlin was a part of that as well.

>> Guido: And this guy's name is. It's a little Merlin esque.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: It's Morlin.

>> Guido: Morlin.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: More lion more like. It might as well just been Morland.

>> Rob: Jr. And what's funny is I said before one of their villains was Mr. Merlin. That's M M U R L I N so there's lots of villains with the Merlin assect there.

>> Guido: Whatever reason.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Something else I noticed was Rocky, he had a phrase he said, shades of Uncle Zeke's Chicken Roost in anlamation. And while it was probably intended to be more of like Holy cat'batman it came out as My Sweet Aunt Petunia.

>> Guido: It is very amp Petunia. Ye. Clearly, Jack had an influence on that line I suspect if not all of them.

>> Rob: Yeah, well, as you kind of hinted at 2Guido earlier on, there's a lot. It's very lengthy, there's lots of words and it's set up episodically. So it's kind of like a Pandora's box and there's four characters and there's four compartments and each time they open it there's a new challenge. So there's a giant rock creature. There is a ice beam or something.

>> Guido: Something.

>> Rob: There's a living sun that's sapping people's energy. And then like the last boxind villain himself. What was that?

>> Guido: O Isn't there a whirlwind at some point?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Well, that coon.

>> Rob: Oh yes. There's like a cocoon.

>> Guido: Yeah, there's a lot going on and it's very confusing.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: The cocoon. When we, when we get to a later segment. I have an interesting point about the cocooo thated me of.

>> Rob: But it does feel very super repetitive reading it because everyone is like okay, now there's a new thing that they have to battle and because they don't also have powers, it's, it's. They're just. There's no like big little trick that that comes out of it.

>> Guido: Yeah. The story itself is kind of ridiculous. I do appreciate the end. There's kind of the twist at the.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: End which little irony there.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the sorcerer retrieved the ring of immortality from the fourth part of the box by virtue of the challengers going in. But then he Misread the inscription and in fact the ring led to his destruction. It's being inside the box that keeps you immortal. So he just crashes and dies at the end. And that. That was kind of funny and unexpected. Took a long time to get there, but it was cute. But what do you think about just their, like the origin overall? Like the setup? Like, I think it's strange, frankly.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I.

>> Guido: It's. I don't get what whoever wrote this is trying to do. I guess they're trying to do a superhero team that's human, but it's. It is a little mysterious. Like are we supposed to understand that there is something special about them in their skirting of death? Like, it's a little confusing and frankly bland to me.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah.

>> Guido: Anyone else?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I agree. I think it is kind of. It is kind of bland. Maybe down the line they get into it, but considering it was like the Silver Age, they kind of probably hit the same notes each issue.

>> Guido: Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure.

>> Rob: And it feels like you'd have to be constantly reminded of their origin. Like with Spider man, or someone like that. Fantastic Four, let's say. Like they just, you know, we all know their origin, but they, they just have their powers now, so it doesn't really matter. But here you'd kind of has to constantly be reminded of. Like there was that one time that we almost died in part because it has. Living on the edge.

>> Guido: It doesn't inform who they are as characters or how they function as a team. Like none of that is informed. Like, I guess literally the only thing we're supposed to take from their origin is that it makes them comfortable with taking risks.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Oh ye.

>> Guido: But that's not enough to sustain you. So I think that's probably why you need the constant reminder. And no one can remember them. Or the fact that they ex.

>> Rob: That's true.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: They're unknown. Exactly.

>> Guido: They are. They haven't yet beaten that. That issue of being unknown.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: It's a challenge for them.

>> Rob: They are challenging it. No, it screams out for some kind of, if not like a formal power, like something where maybe almost like a long shot, like they have incredible luck or something like that. Or maybe they have multiple lives kind of going to the multi man who's like their main villain in that way. Like something where even if they're not like able to stretch their limbs and turn into a flaming torch, like they still have something that at least hints at the fact that they are able to survive or live on the edge or what. Whatever it is.

>> Guido: That's why the recent series was cool to me. I only read it because I liked the writer, Christopher Cantwell, and I'm liking all the DC all in stuff. But it was neat to, like, take this team's origin, which is so bland and I'm sure under uilized over the years, and to kind of ask this question. Well, if Darkseid, who is sort of the agent of death in the universe, like, represents the energy of death in the universe, is suddenly gone, like, what's that gonna. How's that going toa affect them? And. And again, there's this mystery over, like, what's going on with them? And. And this energy that dissipated into the universe. So I like. I like someone trying to use this question of, like, what is. What is the point of them? to tell a story with them, but I don't know how often that's been done.

>> Rob: Yeah. And I think it also shows. And I know kind of Stan can get a bad rap. St. Le can get a bad rap as to, like, well, how much work did he do? How much work did Kirby do? But I think when you read this and then read the Fantastic Four and you see the common denominator of Kirby in, like, a group of four that's in outer space, you can see what Stan lent to it or brought to that. brought to it because when you're reading these, and I don't know if this was the same for you, Ethan, but, like, I had a very hard time m. Just in terms of their voices being able to tell, like, which one's Rocky, which one's red? Like, they all just kind of sound the same. And, like, you would never say that about Johnny Storm and Ben Grimm.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Oh, same. I. And actually, it comes down to me learning about them through the amalgam that I was thinking, oh, Rocky's like Ben because his name's Rocky, like.

>> Guido: Right, right. You were mapping them onto their characters. That makes sense.

>> Rob: Well, let us talk then about the amalgam. It's time to explore some multiversity.

>> Guido: I am your guy through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question, what is if?

>> Rob: And this is Challengers of the Fantastic from Amalgam Comics, AKA DC and Marvel combined. Go back and listen to our other episodes to find out the history from June 1997.

>> Guido: It's written by Carl Cassel, it's penciled by Tom Grumit, inked by Alveve, colored by Joe Rosas, and digital Chameleon lettered by Richard Starkins and Comic Craf and Edited by Tom Brevrt and Glenn Greenberg. So, Challengers of the Fantastic. All right, so let's establish some of the mapping. So we have the four challengers who are now instead the four characters we know, as Sue, Reed, Johnny and Ben. And that's probably the least exciting part of the issue, because then we've got some cool villains.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yes.

>> Guido: So I guess. I guess let's start with their origin before we get to the villains and the story. I guess let's start with their origin. The. It's the same as the Challengers of the Unknown, but with the characters we know as the Fantastic Four. They come back from their trip and they don't have any superpowers, but they can't believe that they've avoided death. And so they decide they're going to challenge the Fantastic instead of challenge the unknown. So it's basically just challenges the unknown mapped onto these four. Right. Am I missing anything?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Victor Von Doom is the reason for the crash.

>> Guido: Right? Right. He sent them up and then he intentionally sabotaged their crash because he was jealous of the attention they were going toa get upon return from their space exploration. Yeah.

>> Rob: And right away, I think even if the book stop there, those changes are already an improvement on, the original because the characters are so much better defined. And having the Doom character be like, the one that's sabotaging the plane and yet they still survived gives it a bit more of an arc rather than. It was like, it was just another accident.

>> Guido: Yeah. And they also, they work for Project Cadmus, which is the DC organization, which.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Is also mentioned in Spider Boy too.

>> Guido: Right. So why we actually see them in Spider Boy, they're one of the few amalgam characters to get multiple appearances, which is an interesting choice for them. So, Ethan, why don't you talk us through that before we get again more into the. The story and the villains?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah. So my notes for Spiderboy, the Challenger only really cameo on, like, probably the third act. Sorry, third. First. First. Third. There we go. of the Spider Boy book. Cadmus Labs. Like we said, we see Spider Boy fighting Bizarnage, who we established was Carnage and Bizarro. And like I said, with the Cocoon, he possesses Johnny Storm temporarily. And so that kind of reminded me of the Cocoon from, Showcase 6. That's probably me overthinking, but I still thought it was worth mentioning. we learned that, Johnny actually survives this because of the miniature, Johnny Stormtrooper, which is going to be, important later in this issue. Theer clone, Ben Grimm confronts Dabney Donovan, who's another scientist. And this is when we get some strange reveals, through inner, monologues and such, which initially I thought we didn't get any closure on. But they actually fulfill some closure in some dialogue with that with Challengers of the Fantastic, which I think, which I thought was interesting. we learned that Sue Storm is an agent of S SHIELD E L and while we don't see her in the Bruce Wayne Agent of S H I E L D book, we do learn some information through the mock letters to the editor about how, oh well, maybe she can join now that Bruce Wayne is incapacitated. Because they make a, they make a comment about, oh, he got, injured in a fight against the Banisher, which is Punisher. And Bane, which is a character that does not actually exist in Amalgam. It's just a name drop because they wanted to come up with Banisher. Punisher is actually mixed with Steve, Trevor. And oh yeah, Bane is actually mixed with Nuke from Daredevil. And it's really just a HYDRA version of Bane who also is in Bruce wayne agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. e L. So this is when the double dipping with amalgam gets really out of hand.

>> Guido: Well, that's what's so interesting about because I think we've established that on other occasions too, the way like the books sort of stayed in their own lane and so they pull characters and as you that double dip. But for some reason the challeng of the Fantastic got a little bit of an arc and got a little more world building than some of the other characters. And I don't know why that is, that they may get to appearances and get some of these tie ins and stuff.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Oh yeah. And then in this mock letters page, they even mentioned that Carl Kessel wanted to do a one shot of the Challengers and I thought that was interesting. This is in the mock, letters page from Spider Boy because Spider boy was from 96 and this is from the 1997 batch.

>> Guido: Right.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And so I'm wondering if it was intentional or not a peek into what we were going to get. Because a lot of the mock letters to the editor is kind of like, oh, they'll amalgamate, writer and artist names.

>> Guido: They'll do, they'll do fake names.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, yeah, they'll do fake names. And so this was like the only real one that I've seen.

>> Guido: Yeah, Maybe the idea had been batted around for the first Wave and they couldn't get it together or decided to cut it. And so then maybe they knew they were going to do a second wave or maybe they were hopeful and that's why they dropped dimension. And that is really interesting. I hadn't revisited the Spider Boy letters page in preparation for this.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, I did. I visited the Spider Boy and the Challengers one just to, milk out more information that I could if there was anything. Because sometimes they throw in little nuggets in there.

>> Guido: Well, for that reason I read the trading cards for today because they always put a lot more and they don't add anything to Challengees the Fantastic, but they do add there's an entire card for Dr. Doomsday.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yes.

>> Guido: So Dr. Doomsday makes fairely a cameo appearance in this and sets up an issue that of course doesn't exist. That would follow where we find out that Dr. Doom has amalgamated with Doom'day and we learn on the trading card that he was doing some genetic testing on the alien of Doomsday. And an explosion in the lab leads to Victor Von Doom amalgamating with Doomsday. And he has Doomsday's powers where he every time he gets killed, he gets resurrected stronger. So that's a fun amalgamation. Just for the name alone. Makes a lot of sense. It was like a pun, Rob.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Oh, it's absolutely one of those things where they came up with the name first and. And then they drew it and they just ran with it.

>> Rob: Yeah, well, that's why I love like the Banisher. Like it's actually like a great name and two characters that go together probably better than the ones that they actually combine with in the actual issues.

>> Guido: Yeah. Yes, true.

>> Rob: I wanted to see the real Banisher on, on, on, on the page.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I'm trying to picture that like just, just the Bane mask with the Punisher with the skull.

>> Rob: Yeah, they kind of have that skull's a co idea.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Like how about like Punisher with his T shirt and he does still have the Venom. He'll use the Venom. But he also like, I don't know. Is it. Is it Bane with guns and a Punisher?

>> Guido: He needs a gun. But maybe the gun shoots Venom. Who knows?

>> Rob: Yeah, he doesn't need real guns. He's got these guns.

>> Guido: All right, so back to challenges Fantastic. I think if ever we need proof that the challenge of the Fantastic were almost as forgettable challenges of the unknown, it's this conversation. So back to them in this story, their big arch nemesis that they're about to fight is Galactiac, which does not roll off the tongue, but is a really fun amalgamation in spite of being a very awkward name because as mentioned earlier, it is Galactus and Brainiac.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Now let me think about it. Brainiacus probably would have worked Brainiacus.

>> Rob: Oh yeah. I think that is better. Galactiac.

>> Guido: Brainia Gal sounds like. I don't know. I don't know what it sounds like.

>> Rob: It sounds like Galactiac is don't talk back.

>> Guido: or like an Atari video game from 82. Like I'm gonna go play Galactiac.

>> Rob: And he. He's design while it's cool. I mean he's basically Galactus, but with Brainiac's face. Like there's not. It's about 80% Galactus.

>> Guido: Oh yeah. Ninetyalactus.

>> Rob: Ninety percent Galactus.

>> Guido: Even S the only interesting thing because yeah, he uses his equipment like. Like Galactus does. He's coming to implant it on the Earth. The one fun twist in that is that he's not harvesting the earth's energy and killing it. He. He shrinks a part of the the planet and puts it in a bottle. Which is of course what Brainiac does. So I like that little twist to Galactus that his world impending doom is much more, amusing than I'm just gonna harvest the earth and you're all gonna die.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: But he does have a herald.

>> Rob: Yes. And this is the Silver Racer. So it's the Silver Surfer but with a cape. And he is on skis now. I'm not super familiar with the racer part. So can use Black race.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Black Racer is one of the new gods.

>> Rob: Ok.

>> Guido: Which is another Kirby creation.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I also added my own, fake amalgam footnote in my notes. I said that the Silver Racer, is gender swap and her name is Shala Barda. In challengers of the fantastic initial strides in theater soon.

>> Guido: Just I think a.

>> Rob: Little bit of it. I don't know. Nothing against skiing, but like I think the fact that he also not only has the skis on his feet, but also has to hold the skiing has the poles. It just doesn't read as cool as a surfboard. Like a surfboard. I don't know. It's just like, okay, that's cool. But like, I don't know skis. And he's got the. Yeah, I don't know. It doesn't Is the same.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Even in the end P of swords.

>> Rob: He could use the.

>> Guido: They should be weapons. But in the end. The final splash page is the tease for the fake next issue where Dr. Doomsday has, I guess, potentially killed or defeated the Silver Racer and is now on the skis. And even he has the poles.

>> Rob: I love that he still does not look as intimidating as, with the. Withheling the ski poles.

>> Guido: No, not at all.

>> Rob: And we do get a few moments in this issue too, with our challengers also having some kind of at times approximations of the Fantastic Four'powers a bit. So Johnny has a. Like a flamethrower. Thr a lot of it. The coolest one is that Reed gets Dr. Octopus's. And this is kind of set up also in the Spider Boy issue where we see Dr. Octopus as kind of like a C character for Cadmus. And he's. When he's like knocked out or defeated. Like now Reed has the Octopus arms which kind of approximate his stretchingms.

>> Guido: Stretching arms, yeah. Yeah, I agree. And they treat sue horribly, which is also similar to her power because he doesn't really.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Ah. Also get. Yeah, I believe sue also gets an invisibility belt that is mentioned once'mentioned. Once and not really used.

>> Guido: It's mentioned once use.

>> Rob: And it immediately stops working as after that one use.

>> Guido: You should use it to avoid the comments on her hair that keep coming up because she's cut her hair and the team is making fun of her for cutting her hair. And I don't understand the point of that whole sequence. I do like though that Reed says her shorter hair is more practical for the work she does. So yes, that's fun.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: That was like the only good comment. And then move on.

>> Rob: And then we get the Thing. and then, then the Ben character does become like the Thing, but he's got four arms. That was a little lost on me. M. Why does he have the forearms?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Because comics. I don't think it. I don't think there was any real reason, but I. I like how. Okay, so they call him the ever lo11 blue eyed thing in Fantastic Four. So I don't think they called him this, but I like to refer to him as the ever loving, forearmed thing. Just works.

>> Guido: That does work.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: I wonder, maybe Brainiac has some like, forearmed minions that they were pulling from because it's Galactiac that transforms him into his minion and he has the forearms and the rocky skin. So I'm assuming they were pushing the Thing with a DC character that is unrecognizable to us.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Maybe so.

>> Guido: Yeah. It's not a strong issue. I'd say it's not a strong story, this one. I think the fun for this issue comes out of just how many amalgamations there are, how many pieces they're trying to link uph.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, you mentioned June Robbins. She's name dropped mixed with Alicia Masters.

>> Guido: Right, right.

>> Rob: Yes.

>> Guido: Yeah. And. And then Anuatu the Guardian shows up too.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, yeah. Which. So he mentions his, his temporary loss of sanity, which I believe, again, this is probably me, projecting sense into amalgam. But again, since Speed Demon came out in 1996, could that have been a thread?

>> Guido: Right, right. I was thinking it was a reference to something that happened previously. And then, because I like that he refers to getting cured by using the Mother Cube, which is, of course, the Mother Box combined with the cosmic cube. So, yeah, this one is. Again, it's full of, like, Easter egg references. Johnny's even talking about his relationship with the inhuman Crystal, but they're all being amalgamated with, like, different new gods and characters, so.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: To be the UN people.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: Oh, I just did some quick Internet research here so we can inform the readers. There is a character called Four Armed Terror. He's actually a Jack Kirby creation, and he first appeared in one of our favorites, Superman's pal, Jimmy Olsen, in 1971, and then does seem to be, reoccurring for Supervillain, for Superboy and Superman.

>> Guido: So a lot of these nods are to Kirby Creations. K Creations just mentioned is a Kirby creation. So clearly this is kind of a tribute issue, which might be why it sort of drags, because they're trying to fit a lot into it. And it's not so much about the story, it's more about all these little bits and Easter eggs.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah, I wanted to see more Bronze Tiger, who's basically just. He's T'Challa, but Bronze Tiger in name and then, including Guerrilla City with the Super Apes was neat.

>> Guido: I know there is, like, a whole Wakanda backstory referred to there that sadly didn't ever see the light of day in another issue, but could have been a lot of fun. So, yeah, I don't feel the need to have read more Challenges of the Fantastic, but if there were more, maybe it would have been fleshed out in an interesting way. Anyone else with a thought about whether you wanted more Challenges of the Fantastic?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: only if it gives us, ah, Super Scruroll, Amazo Amalgam, Even though am. Even though Amo and Super Adaptoid would probably be more appropriate. we need some form of Super Skrull.

>> Rob: Yes.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: In this universely.

>> Rob: See that? Yeah, I think that. And. And to see more Dr. Doomsday too.

>> Guido: Yeah, coursely Dr. Doomstday.

>> Rob: It also is just fun because just for folks who don't know, he he's Doomsday, but wearing the green cloak and the silver gloweah. But it's fun to see. Like, oh, what would a, walk. What would like a talking super smart Doomsday be Is a fun ideao itself.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: And I always thought it was cool. Again, this is probably a coincidence, but, you know, in the Rise of the Silver Surfer, the second Fantastic Fourorror movie, Doom, gets the board.

>> Guido: No, I don't remember that.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: So it's like in the middle of the movie, he gets the surf_ard and that's what that scene always reminds me of, huh? Me, getting the skis when he's the silver racer. Yeah, again, probably a coincidence, but I'm sure.

>> Rob: Well, let us wrap up then by pondering some possibilities.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Will the future you describe be avertederttederted?

>> Rob: So, Guido, what are we talking about for our pondering possibilities?

>> Guido: Well, you and I just last episode talked about the upcoming crossovers with Marvel dc, but we want to hear from Ethan about these because we have our Deadpool Batman issue on newsstands in just a few months from when we're recording this. And not only does it have Deadpool Batman, but as we talked about, it has Daredevil, Green Arrow, Jeff Landshark, Crypto, Captain America, Wonder Woman, and only recently announced some variant covers that tell other pairings, though with no stories. So we get Catwoman Magic, and we get Elektra, Batgirl. So a few cool pairings, a few neat stories in there, hopefully. So, Ethan, what do you think about these announcements? And do you think this is step one toward a new amalgam?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: I definitely have high hopes. I'mnna be cautiously optimistic about amalgam, though I think amalgam would be quite a surprise. But as of now, I'm just excited to see what Grant Morrisson does with Deadpool. And I don't think they've done anything with Deadpool yet.

>> Guido: Yeah, I don't think so either. And if this leads us down a path to more amalgam, do you want a continuation of old amalgam? Do you want brand new amalgamations? What m you want to see? You want both? You want it all?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yes, I want it all to an extent. Like, you can get rid of Trevor Castle, but, like, if you'renna do Dark Claw, you got to continue what we had with Dark Claw. But what we also need is, Dak and Wayne, like Damian and Dakin.

>> Guido: Oh my gosh. That is a good one.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Oh, I've been thinking about Cassandra Kinney forever. Cassandra Kin and La. Kinney.

>> Guido: Oh, these are good ones that you've been thinking about.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: somebody. Somebody said something about, like, the older Wolverine being mixed with somebody, but I can't Rem. It wasn't Old man. It was something else. But I't Rem.

>> Rob: Who would your. Since he didn't exist when first Amalgm came out, who would your Miles Morales be mixed with?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Miles Morales is mixed with John Kent.

>> Guido: Oh my gosh.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yeah.

>> Guido: This is what's cool about this, is these legacy characters didn't exist in the 90s.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Oh, yeah. Legacy characters.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: They have so much that they can do with Green Lantern and Flash alone. Because there's so many Iron. I mean, I think I was talking about this when. When Ironeart came out, I was like Joe Muln and Re. Re Williams.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Let's make it happen.

>> Guido: Yeah. yeah. And they are roughly analogous in some ways, so amalgamating them could be really cool. But they bring different things. Like, Miles and John is a great one. Oh, yeah, this is fun.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: we need some, some more speed demons. There's like so many Flashes and so many, Ghost. Many greenen Ghost Riders that haven't been done yet. Yeah, the list on.

>> Guido: Yeah, wow. Sure, we've.

>> Rob: Well, I'm sure we've talked about this, maybe past issues at past episodes, but now that we're getting these crossover books, like, what do you think Ethan or Guito, like, what do you think the barrier would be to doing an amalgam book? Like, if they've already done the hard work of coming together to do these crossovers and we know how contentious that could be, like, why not take the extra step and do an Amalglm book?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Hope my joke aner. My joke answer is because, Jeff and Crypto would be a godless abomination but also be adorable. but I don't know, maybe. Maybe it's because they. They can't decide if they want to completely reboot it or if they want to do more Dark Claw because I feel like they would want to do more Darklaw and Super Soldier because those seem more obvious. But then they probably look at stuff like Trevor Castle and think, oh, yeah, why didn't we mix Punisher with Vigilante years ago?

>> Guido: Right, right. And it was probably because Vigilante was such a D list character at that point. So. Yeah, yeah. The status quo has changed, definitely. And people know more characters, I think, and this is sort of cynical, but I think probably a variable. The issue to me must be that even if these companies can get along finally and figure out how to co publish and share legally, profit wise, etc. When they create a character, who owns it? No one owns it. I think that's probably part of the issue now. That's not an issue if we don't see these companies as IP farms, but we know that both companies are run as IP farms and so I'm sure that's a huge factor. If they were just publishing comics, it wouldn't be a big issue because you invent a character and who cares who owns it? That's it. But now it might be an issue because they're going to invent characters and no one can license them. I mean licensing them would be a nightmare. Certainly they'd never make it onto the screen. And I think that's what these companies exist for.

>> Rob: Sadly that's true because you could see easily Deadpool and Batman maybe not being live action, but being a jumping off point for an animated series or you know, one off movie based on the comic or something else. But I do think that becomes harder once it is an amalgam. Because even like what platform do they. I mean, I guess that, I guess is the same thing with a crossover.

>> Guido: Yeah, it is an issue with the crossover, but at least again a crossover. And they could do this with an amalgamated character, like just share the profits. 50.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: 50.

>> Guido: But so for me, I don't know.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: For me amalgam would have to be animated because again, this is how my brain works. Like I wouldn't want because I would be stuck if they chose an actor. It would have to be somebody different because otherwise I'd be like, oh chrriis corn sweat as a, super soldier. Like that's how my brain would just keep working and I would be stuck if they just picked one of them. It would just feel one sided. But at the end of the day that's also a me issue.

>> Guido: I love that we need to use AI to like combine Chris Evans and David Knsweat into a human being and then our cast away from AI because that, yeah, I think Rob and I, when we were talking Marvel DC some episodes ago, I'm sure you heard it because you're such a wonderful friend to the show Ethan. But we had said that like Harley Quinn, that tone is the right template for a future amalgam or Marvel DC getting a little bit of the Metaorth wall breaking, but not overkill on it. Really good storytelling, really smart characters, but like an adult skew to the humor. I think that would be a really good template for this kind of show.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Oh, I agree. And there are so many exciting possibilities for crossovers that, yeah, I can name all the speed demons and Iron Lanterns I want to see, but I want to see some really cool crossovers. Like, I've seen people talk about how they want Static and Miles Morales. Yeah, I want that. But you know what I think would be cooler? Static and Kamala Khan.

>> Guido: Mm

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Because a, we get more Kamala. It's less. It's less obvious. Because yes, Static was inspired by, Spider man, but also both Kamala and Virgil are huge nerds. And so they would really play off of each other, character wise. And I think that'd be really fun.

>> Guido: Yeah. Also, and their fans be really interesting. They're fans in the universe, which is always a good protagonist character.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Maybe throw Gwen Pool in the mix too.

>> Guido: And before we wrap up completely, you mentioning David Kn'whateat reminds me that you've been playing a mental game with amalgamations and actors. That is so fun. And I want all of our listeners to do from this point on. So can you explain what they need to do and what they need to post and tag us in?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Yes. So this is what you got to do. You'gotta take. Oh, you've got to find an actor. And they can be in any Marvel property movie or any DC property movie. Like, they have to be in both. They have to be in both. and for example, the woman who played Hawk Girl, Isabella. We're on a first name basis. First her last name. She played, Arania in Madame Webb. And now she also is Hawkgirl more successfully in Superman. Extra credit if you can come up with a cool name.

>> Guido: Yeah, I. That's true.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Call her, on your hall or Sha Cororazon ak.

>> Rob: Those all sound like drag queen names too.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: AKA Hawk Spider, which if that doesn't take off, I will steal that name for a fodder verse character.

>> Guido: and other. The other one. To give our listeners another, example you had mentioned Jared Leto, of course, being an example of Morbius and Joker. What name did you come up with for him?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Michael Napier or Jack. Jack Morbius. I don't know. And maybe he Gerbius.

>> Guido: Some horrible name. Make it a horrible name. I'm not a fan of his, his depictions of these characters. So let's call it something.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: But I don't know. Would it be. Would it be a vampire Joker with. I'm picturing a vampire Joker with, like.

>> Rob: Vampire clown is kind of scary. Yeah.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: The shaggy green hair. caus famous catchphrases. It's joking time.

>> Rob: You know, here's. I'd obscure when I just thought of the Penguin and Bullseye.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Oh, my God. I think about that one on the Daily, like, an unhealthy amount. I think about that one. It's ridiculous.

>> Guido: Oh, my gosh. I forgot. That's right. Colin Farrell is Penguin. I forgot that I knew he was Bullseye. I forgot that he was Penguin. Oh, man, there are so many out there.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Batman. Daredevil Batman.

>> Rob: Yes.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Ben Affleck on the ye.

>> Guido: That is. So who is it?

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Zod? Terrence stamp in Superman 2 is stick in the Electra movie.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: Oh, my gosh.

>> Guido: Nice. Dear. Think Al right, so this is a gift you've given our listeners, Ethan. Listeners. We expect to see what you come up with, what some of the weirdest actor crossover amalgamations you can think of are.

>> Rob: Maybe who's ever cast in the Challengers of the Unknown movie will have also been in a Marvel movie.

>> Guido: We'll know who knows that inevitable Challengers of the Unknown movie that we know is percolating in James Gunn's mind, as we speak.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: Oh, and here is the rule. Here's like, the one caveat. It has to be a live action action. It can be. It can't be like, Kalee Kuoko mixed with, I don't know, whoever voices Spiral in, X Men 97. Right'm using that example because Spiral Harley is a, character from, Legends something. Dark Claw. One of the Dark Claw, yeah.

>> Guido: So it has to be as an actor you see playing the character.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: All right. Yes.

>> Guido: So to be live action, let's get some fun ones up there. What a gift you've given us. And thank you for joining us on this episode. Ethan, how can people find you online? What's the best platform these days? I know you've made lots of moves and have lots of stuff to share.

>> Ethan aka MakeMineAmalgam: So the absolute best place you can find me is Blue Sky. Make my amalgam on Blue Sky. you will only find me on Twitter because I am squatting on that handle. Nobody else will have me find them out. Like, I will probably repost a few things just to, like, keep it somewhat active, but it is locked. And basically the new name on there is like Find Me on Blue Sky. You can find me on Instagram and threads. Make underscore mine under amalgam. But again, I am primarily on, blue sky, making up kind of my own amalgams in my own universe of kit bashed, Marvel legends characters called the fodder vese of my own original heroes, and villains.

>> Guido: Yes, we love to see it, so people should go check it out. Until next time when you make for a clean dozen appearances the next time you appear. Thank you for joining us again, Ethan. And that is a wrap. Dear watchers, thank you for listening. I've beenng Guido and I'BEEN Rob. The reading list is in the show notes. Follow us online on bluesky, on Instagram irerewatchers, and link us a five star.

>> Rob: Review wherever you listen. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.

>> Guido: In the words ofatu, keep pondering the possibilities.