Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

Hey, Suga. And welcome to Dear Watchers. It's comic Book Omniverse podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

We are traveling through the storylines before and after that inspired or took inspiration from this week's amazing alternate universe. And your watchers on this journey are.

Me Kiddo and me Rob. The Animated Series.

That was much less exciting. I thought you were going to be like Rob, uh, as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs or something.

Yes, well, there's many things that could be a little nostalgia today on the Deer Watchers podcast. But before we dive into that Guito, what's new in our little corner of the multiverse?

I don't think I have anything new to share, so just keep on listening, keep on reviewing, keep on sharing. As our regular listers know, this is sort of the start of year two or a few episodes in and we're just looking to grow the community that we've met already. So please, the reviews help. Sharing help. Word of mouth helps. We have magnets and stickers. So people who message us, we're happy to send them to you. And that's it.

Yeah, and listen to our last episode. It was a really fun one where we did an Amalgam, so we had a little Marvel, little DC, a little illegal DC in Marvel as well. And you can listen to the episode to see what I mean by that. But if you're joining us for the first time, welcome. And after a quick summary of our alternate Earth, we are visiting. We have origins of the story, discovering what inspired this other reality, exploring multiversity, diving deeper into our alternate universe, and finally pondering possibilities, examining the impact and what's followed or coming in the future. And with that, Dear Watchers, welcome to episode 56 and let's check out what's happening in the multiverse with today's alternate universe. And we just heard our theme song there, but I think it would have been more appropriate if we heard that.

Because keep making that noise. That's exciting. That's thrilling. Why don't you just sing the whole thing forever?

Mhm. Yes. Well, if anyone grew up in a certain time period, you probably can sing that entire theme song super well, yeah, for sure. And that is a pretty good indication that today we are discussing Xmen the Animated Series, and specifically we're asking the question, what if the Xmen Animated Series universe was in a comic book universe? Kind of. Sort of, maybe.

Yeah. This is a weird one. Well, I think a few things spawn this episode for us. One is, of course, San Diego ComicCon just happened. And while we weren't going to do any sort of reaction episode to ComicCon news, what we're talking about today was a big part of what was revealed at Comic Con. So we're going to do a little bit of referring to that. And then also we've been looking for a, uh, world an alternate universe to explore in Marvel. That's not part of a what if. We have a lot on the horizon that we're interested in doing, and we needed to break the seal. So this is an opportunity to do that. And the last point is that this actually relates to another Comic Con announcement because this is a little bit related to Secret Wars. And I'll explain more about that when we get to it. So in terms of the summary of this, um, question, what if the Xmen Animated Series universe was in a comic book universe? Kind of, sort of. I'm not going to do much of a summary. There is an Earth designated number, but it's really complicated, and I'll explain why when we get into it. A brief summary is that our Xmen Animated Series style characters and team roster encounter Cassandra Nova, the comic book character Cassandra Nova making her first appearance in a cartoon format, and she has them all run through some sort of mind trap thing and Export shows up to save them. And that's pretty much the gist of it.

She's not just Cassandra Nova. She's the Shadow King has kind of possessed.

Yeah, and she's a clone. Like, they changed her origin a lot. But that's the important summary I'd say for this look into our alternate universe. And before we get into our backgrounds, if you want to know more about the Xmen, we have covered them on a lot of episodes. So episodes 213-134-3544 and 47, I'm a big X Men. And so we have covered a good number. Not a lot. We have a lot left, believe me. I kind of spaced them out a.

Little bit whenever I say to you, kido, because I don't know them nearly as well as you do. And I'll say, oh, I was reading about this storyline online, this alternate universe. Should we do that? And you're like, that's a giant event that's about 300 issues long. We need to plan a little bit more in advance. I feel like any time I recommend, oh, let's read this X Monarch. You're like, no, that, uh, is a 33 issue read. And that's just part one.

It is a lot. And so we'll find a way to cover it all. But today we got a way to cover this odd intersection, uh, this odd alternate universe of the Xmen Animated Series.

Yeah. So, Gito, we talked a little bit about your background with the Xmen already, but what is your background with those wonderful XGen carrying superheroes? Also with Battleworld, which is where this is taking place, and of course, with Xmen the Animated Series.

So I'll start with Battle World, and I'll explain more for listeners who aren't too familiar with the 2015 Secret Wars event. I'll explain more when you get to our alternate universe segmenting, battle Me. Well, it was a part of the first Secret Wars to be audio created. Battleworld, then you did read that but apparently I don't remember that. So I read Secret Wars as it was coming out and I read a lot of the tie in. Secret wars 2015 is quite famous because it has, I believe, approximately 60 tie in series happening. It is a massive, massive 300 issue, nearly 300 issue event. It is huge. And this was one of the titles that was a part of that.

When they say that they'd be adapting Secret Wars into the MCU, do they mean this one really?

Because can we hold that possibilities? There's a lot about Secret Wars that I think will come up today. So I read a lot of Battle World, I read this series but didn't stick with it. And I'll get into that in our alternate universe, xmen, our regular listeners know, I've read for 35 years and know the Xmen in and out and have read every single issue of X Men that I think exists. And I'm seeking to collect them all slowly but surely. Xmen The Animated Series, we haven't discussed this episode is pretty much a vehicle for us to discuss it. Yes, and I have no shame about that. Xmen The Animated Series. I had already been reading X Men, so it was an entry point for a lot of people my age. But I had already been reading X Men probably for about five years. So the launch of The Animated Series was a massive event for me and my friends and in my household. I watched it when they premiered it. I watched it every episode when it would premiere. I got the VHS tapes from the Pizza Hut. I recorded them on my, um, VCR and watched and watched and watched them. I bought them on VCD like bootleg DVDs, pre bootleg DVD in the early days of Ebay in the late ninety s before they released them on DVD. I mean, I've watched the series, I've seen every episode a minimum of five times. And some key episodes like those we watch today probably like 30 times. So I know it, love it in and out. What's your background with those three things?

Well, Battle World, as I already said, zero background other than reading the first Secret Wars, but not even really. I mean I remember the general concept, but really very little background. And for Xmen and Xmen the Animated Series. I'll kind of discuss them together. So I uh, did read the Xmen comics pretty frequently growing up, but of course not nearly as much as you. They were probably my second after Spiderman.

But really my and after The Animated Series.

Exactly. So that's what I was going to say. Really. My introduction to Xmen as characters was Xmen the Animated Series. And that was what made me want to read the comics. But I mean, I watch them every Saturday afternoon and I tape them off of Fox and would wash those tapes over and over again. I also had some of them that we bought. I don't remember getting them from Pizza Hut. I think they must have also sold some separately in the stores because I did have some compiled on VHS as well. So I've seen every episode. But unlike you, I haven't seen every episode for probably quite some time. So I wouldn't mind doing a complete re watch one of these days because.

Well before X Men next year, we can do that.

Yeah, there's some buried ones in there that some I can quote and some I probably don't, um, remember at all. So really fun just getting a little chance to dip our big mutant toe into the waters of the Xmen Animated Series again. So with that, let us summon the god of wind and lightning and go into the orange of the story.

Right now, on this very show, you're.

Going to get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago. Hey, listen, Storm is quite verbal. There's a lot of verbal characters in the Xmen, even on The Animated Series, let alone in the comics, where they had some really verbal writers in there.

I know I distinctly remember a number of times on my Sat knowing words.

Because of you, Beast, and Storm helping people get into college. Uh, right there.

Well, so what did we start with today?

Speaking of Xmen The Animated Series we watched Xmen The Animated Series, the Pilot, and also the final episode. So those aired on Night of the.

Sentinels and Graduation day.

Yes. Graduation day and night of the sentinels. And those aired on October 31, Halloween 1992. And then that's when the series began. And it ran until September 20, 1997.

All right, so these episodes specifically were written by Mark Edward Edens for the pilot and James Creek for Graduation Day. Both were directed by legend Larry Houston. So, of course, this series, though, has to be credited to Larry Houston and Eric and Julia Lewald. The three of them are the showrunners the creators. Eric and Julia were the story editors. Uh, did a lot of the conceiving, uh, of the series. Larry directed the majority of it, and the three of them really should be credited with the whole series. So we watched these because this is the world that's adapted in the alternate universe that we are focused on today.

Yeah.

So how is rewatching them?

Rewatching them is, uh, a lot of fun. The Pilot is one of the episodes in this series that I can quote pretty much verbatim, as I'm sure was the case with you. That was definitely one of the ones. I had. This final episode, though, I don't really remember at all. So it was fun. It was almost something new to me. I'm sure I saw it, but I'm not 100% sure. What about you? You've been in this Animated Series world more frequently than I have.

Yeah, I still put them on at times. When I just need to show in the background. So they're all very fresh in my mind. I think, though, watching it with what we read in mind today and then with the fact that it's coming back next year in mind, I think I was just reminded that they are some of the best characters ever. And they are 97% faithful to the comics. So they did this extraordinary thing in this show where it is so mirrors the comics. The characters are the characters as you know them on the page. And then it also just translated them into a show. Like the cartoon works, the voices work, the dialogue works, everything works. Now, of course, in the last season, they had started using a different animation house. The budget had been cut, and it's nowhere near as pretty as the first season. I think the first few seasons of the show are really incredible animation, which is what probably added to its success. The last two seasons, they outsourced a lot of it, and it's not nearly as detailed, and you see a lot of mistakes and stuff. But on the whole, they look like you think they should look. Everything, uh, about it is so incredible. And it was so synergistic too, because the series is starting month less than a year or about a year after Jim Lee and Claremont's, Xmen number one launches. They're using a lot of those designs, although they had started production. So they had to make some adjustments to match those designs. And I think that affected even some of who they could use on the initial team design. There's two great books. Previously on Xmen, eric Lewald wrote, which is like a narrative history. And then the art of Xmen the Animated Series, which Eric and Julia Lewalge, which is all about the series and the art of it. But it's so cool how connected it was even today. You were saying, like, oh, where did the yellow wheelchair come from? And I was trying to remember if Jim Lee's first issue of X Men number one. He'd, uh, started on county a few months before, had the yellow wheelchair. And you open it, it does, and everything looks the same. Everything is exactly there. It matches perfectly. And then the characters I don't know.

I can rave about it forever. Unique in that it ends on this total cliffhanger, which really no other show. Yeah.

I mean, it's a two parter. Although then the second part ends with the death of one of the guys.

Yes, I know. Totally. And then Beast is captured. I know, in that story. And then he's in prison, I think, for pretty much all of the first season of the show. I remember watching it as a kid and going like, why is Beast in the I want Beast to get out. And it really is very adult for this children's animated show and really stood alone, I think when you probably looked at some of the other things that it was airing up against.

Yeah. Well, Batman The Animated Series, which was also from Fox, debuted exactly at the same time they started together, pretty much. And so you can see the direction that they were pushing both of those in. But they're adult in different ways. Batman is, I'd say adult in, like, tone and noir. And it's reference. It's art deco, reference, all of that. And this is adult in the storytelling and the characters in the dialogue. I mean, they're using language that kids don't know. It's serialized storytelling, really. Serialized storytelling. I mean, the second season, you have the little segments at the end of every episode of Eric and Charles and the Savage Land like wild. Even watching the last episode today, which, of course, brought tears to my eyes while watching it, this person is dying and saying goodbye to everyone, and you're like, this is a kid.

Yeah. Not remembering that final episode. I actually did. I agree. I thought it was quite moving and very yeah, there's a lot of real emotion that comes through. And Charles is on his deathbed, and he goes one by one through all of the Xmen, including Morph, who's back there for this episode, and it's giving them all these certain acknowledgments. It is very moving. And that's kind of then coupled against this story, this mutant uprising that's happening, and this new upturn in prejudice, which, of course, in 2022 seems, unfortunately, all too relevant here. So those two things together, yet certainly seems very adult for an Animated Saturday Morning cartoon.

Well, and even watching Graduation Day, there's the scenes with the spray painted wall saying, Magneto. And it's only a few years later that in Grant Morrison's epic run, which we'll take a look at in a moment, that Grant starts using the Magneto was right idea, and the idea that younger people are going to take Magneto's ideals and start to enact them and try to cause a revolution, for better or for worse. And so to see it in that episode, I was like, oh, wow. I wonder if that inspired Grant in some way. Because it's very cool. So it's so sophisticated and so well done and so enjoyable. It's obvious why people love this show. It's obvious why we were all desperate for it to come to streaming. And then, of course, excited at the reboot, which we will talk a lot about in a few minutes.

And I think when you look at the years that it ran, 92 to 97, it just also feels like, well, you grew up with the series. It seems adult, but it also advanced with you at the same time. Like, I always think of 1997 as the year of Titanic, and going to see that movie, which was a bit more adult. There's nudity in it. It's a romance. I was in middle school then, as opposed to 92, when I was very much more of a kid. So when Charles is saying goodbye to these people, you do feel like you have grown with these characters over time. And you yourself, or for me, was kind of graduating. It was my graduation day, right? I was moving into a new theater.

They have character development, which is so mhm. I mean, I love Heman, for example, and Heman has a huge mythos. Heman has zero character development. Like, it was never made to have arcs, to have characters change, to have characters learn things, evolve, struggle. It was never made for that. So to have this series have so much character development is really remarkable and extraordinary. And we are going to talk a lot more about its return in our third segment. But are you ready to move on to the comics we read to prepare for our alternate universe?

Yes. So we read New Xmen number 114 from July 2001, and that is E for Extinction, part one. E is for E for Extinction, part one. And then we also read Silence Psychic Rescue in progress from February 2002. And that's issue 121 of New Xmen.

All right, so both of these were written by Grant Morrison and penciled by Frank Quietly. The 114 was inked by Tin Townsend. 121 inked by Frank Whiteley, colorist on 114. Brian Haberlin letter comiccraft edited by Pete Franco, Mark Powers and then 121, colored by HiFi design lettered by Richard Stark's and edited by Mark Powers, Pete Franco So we read these very quickly just because Cassandra Nova is in the alternate universe, and I knew you'd have no reference point for her. So these are 114 is the beginning of Grant Morrison's epic, iconic, soft reboot, major reboot, though run of X Men adjective list. X Men becomes new X Men with this moment. Cassandra Nova is introduced, and then 121 gives you her origin and a bit of her origin. But, uh, it's just such a cool issue that I wanted us to read the two of these together because I took a guess it's your first Grant Morrison reading. Is it possibly your first Grant Morrison ever, honestly. And they're someone that I would love for you to read more of, but I can barely get you to read Alan Moore unless it's about lovecraft. So I haven't really tried pushing Grant Morrison. The Invisible Zombie Bus has been sitting on your dresser for quite some time, but you haven't read it anyway, how did you enjoy these issues as your first Grant Morrison X Men? For sure.

I enjoyed them a lot. They have a great sense of humor, which I know Grant Morrison does really well. And I think at times you obviously are the Xmen expert. But it feels like a time sometimes the X Men can be very serious. I don't know if Claremont sometimes went into more of a super serious realm, but some of being that they're dealing with genocide and these really big topics. So this having this kind of humor.

Ironically say that because the biggest genocide of all actually happens.

That.

Ironic that the most significant massacre of millions of mutants occurs in something you're also pointing out the humor of. I think that is something Grant does really well. That Chucks To position.

Yeah.

I mean, they write the characters voices really well, which is where I think the humor comes from. It's a very MCU at this point thing, but there are a lot of other people who I think can pull that off. Once you get a good character voice, you can bring humor in, and it doesn't disrupt a dark tone, a serious tone, or it doesn't take away from the gravity of what's happening.

Yeah. And it really does. This. 114 really had a feeling of a first issue or reboot because it really felt like you had some solo, um, time with some of these characters, where it's okay. It's not everyone together. It's Cyclops and Wolverine together. So you're kind of getting to zero in on their relationship. It's Hank and Gene together. And then Cassandra Nova has very much a Bond villain kind of moment where she's walking the other Trask who's just a dentist in whatever that safari safari outfit kind of the helmet and describing, like, her is that what it is? Describing her whole plan. And it is this very kind of Bond thing in the very Bond esque area, this jungle with the giant master mold there, which totally seems I wouldn't be surprised if the Grant and Frank were, um, inspired by a Bond aesthetic.

Yeah, I'm sure that's true. And then focusing on Cassandra, you just described how cool her entrance is. She's someone who, I think, because she has a very strange origin, 121 barely scratches the surface of this idea that she was the twin of Xavier who died in the womb. Xavier killed in the womb. And so she's, like the spirit, survived and became a mumadry. It's very grand.

Yes.

And so I forget, though, how awesome Cassandra Nova is because her origin is so weird and convoluted that I don't always think of her as the sarcastic, evil, maniacal villain she is. She's a major player in Tom Sailors Xmen Red, which is another favorite series. She's just come back in tomorrow. But she wasn't used too much. I think she was someone who was sort of Grant's property, so no one really touched her for a while. Maybe no one knew what to do with her. But it sounds like you enjoyed me.

Yeah. Well, I think the one drawback of the X Men I don't know. It's, uh, not quite a drawback. But the one thing that makes them more sophisticated also takes away from it in some ways, is that many of their villains aren't strictly villains. Magneto has a lot of two sides to him. Apocalypse does as well, exodus. And there's a lot of those characters that.

Yeah.

Emma Frost, Sebastian Shaw, they are not just out to kill people. They have all these kind of layers. So it's kind of nice when you also just have a super mega Meliha villain like this, like Cassandra Nova, who that is all she wants to do. She was great. She doesn't have those deep layers that Magnito is who's more of an antihero eventually, over time.

Yeah, she is definitely. Certainly now, if you factor everything into now, I mean, she is unquestionably the worst villain the Xmen have in terms of how evil they are, not in terms of how much I like them or how good they are as a character in terms of how evil, uh, there's no one who compares even remotely to her. She is that well, and Grant, I guess, probably had a goal of that and was successful in introducing that. I mean, Grant does actually write Magneto as quite a villain. And then their end with Magnito gets reconned because they wrote Magnito as such a villain. But Cassandra is clearly always supposed to be a villain, and no one has they're trying to make her some antihero.

Yeah, totally. And then this silence. Psychic rescue in progress. Very interesting issue, because you did tell me before we read it, but yeah, except for one line of dialogue on the very last panel, it is a silent issue, and it's super fantasmagorical and drippy and dreamlike. And really, for me, it reminded me a lot of the second Hellraiser movie, where they kind of go into the hell raiser world and kind of experience and everything's kind of drippy. And being that Clive Barker is also a queer, uh, writer from the UK, I wonder if Brandt was a big Clive Barker fan.

Oh, I wouldn't imagine I don't know if it was an inspiration, but I would imagine they're a fan. And Frank quietly's art owed himself to that also because it's really detailed, but really grotesque in a lot of ways.

Yeah, even his regular art, it's so in contrast with the Jim Lee art that we know, or going back to the art during the key Claremont era, where everyone is super, the women are super busty, the men are super hunky. Here, everyone kind of looks a little weird, a little not quite normal. And certainly Professor X and Cassandra Nova look very decrepit.

Uh, yes. And a lot of Grants Run plays with that, too. Even in that first issue, you meet one of the, quote unquote ugly mutants in this idea that mutants aren't all pretty, and it's actually just the X Men who yeah.

But even then, pretty, and even then, Beast has become more feline.

At this point, Beast has his second evolution. His evolution. Yes. So, great fun. I think we're ready to dive into our alternate universe.

Yes. Let us draw out our claws. Flash through this wall into exploring multiversity. I am your guide through these vast new realities.

Follow me and ponder the question.

And today we are asking, what if the Xmen Animated Series universe was in a comic book universe? Kind of, sort of. And to do that, what we mean by that is we read Xmen 92 Infinity Comic issues one through eight, although that was reprinted in print as value one, issue one through four, and that is from August 2015 to November 2015.

And these were all written by Chad Bowers and Chris Sims. Penciled by Scott Coblish, who also did the inks. Colored by Matt Miller, lettered by Travis Lanham and edited by Jordan D. White with Heather Anthos. All right, what is this? This is one of the Battle World spin off titles. Battle world is during the 2015 Hickman Secret Wars event. Dr. Doom has used the power of the Beyonder, who creates a Battle World in the 80s Secret Wars events. This is a different version. And he creates this world that has all of these different domains, these different territories, all run by a different Baron or baroness or person. And they bring in all the multiverse in all sorts of ways. They bring in different events we know of. They bring in different titles, alternate universes, weird things, new things we've never seen before, return to Things. And then this being one of the stranger ones, which is bringing in the Xmen 92 Animated Series world into the comics. So in terms of the Earth designation, this story technically takes place on Battleworld. Battle world is Earth 15513 It has a designation because it exists in that Secret Wars title for some time, and then it actually is reused for other stuff later. But what's strange is, of course, this is like one territory of Battle World that doesn't interact with other facets of Battle World or characters. And that territory comes from the Animated Series, which is Earth 92131. So the Xmen Animated Series has an Earth designation and then some broader context before we dive into this is so this four issue print series, digital only first, but then printed, ended up being successful. And they created a volume two of it. But volume two occurred after Battle World ended, after the Secret Wars event. So volume two of Xmen 92 takes place in Earth 92131 the Animated Series World.

We need a board and some string.

And I challenge that too, because I think especially Xmen 97 coming along is going to mess all of this classification up because we're going to be continuing the canon of the original Earth. So anyway, but for today's reading, what we read exists in the Secret World, battle World. It is pretty isolated, other than a reference to Robert Kelly, uh, Senator Robert Kelly, and, uh, then also a reference to like the Thor's who police all the Battle worlds and stuff. And it's pretty isolated, self contained. That's why I read it as an alternate universe, to see what it would be like to bring. The Xmen Animated Series in what do you think?

I actually thought this was a lot, uh, of fun. There's a lot going on, and I think often with these mini series, uh, there's a lot cramped into eight issues or four issues, depending on how you're reading it. But I thought there was a lot of fun. There's a lot of Easter eggs and tongue in cheek humor that's scattered throughout. And maybe it's because it's unclear to me what the stakes actually were for this not knowing the whole battle world thing. So it did seem like the writers here were just trying to have some fun and actually do alternate worlds within the alternate world at times, because the whole thing is basically a hallucination or psychic, virtual, uh, reality, whatever you want to call it.

Right. A lot of the action of the issues yeah. It takes place in the reality. Cassandra Nova constructed to, uh, trap to try to trap the Xmen. That's true.

What did you think?

I don't like this. Um, it's odd that I don't like this. I think I'm not sure who it's for, and maybe it is for people like me, but it doesn't click for me. It didn't click for me when it came out seven years ago. I never got into it. I never read the second volume because I didn't get so into it. They actually just did a, um, new volume of X and 92 based on House of X. I'm still not into it. And I think this is going to sound like, really like I'm a purist, which I try not to sound like, but maybe I just need to accept it when I am being one. What's hard for me is that it doesn't take place with the continuity of the series.

No.

So it's frustrating for me because I get what it's doing. I get that it's taking the tone of the series, the line up of the series, and the look of of the series. But why not take especially in 2015, when they weren't rebooting the cartoon, there was nothing on the horizon. Why not take the canon of the series? Why not take the story of the series? Like, why have Professor X in this or put him in it and have it be like he returned from this year? If it's for people who are fans of the original series, like, why not have given us the continuity? So I find that a little strange that it's Xmen 92. And maybe some of that is why, like, they called it 92, right. Which we'll talk about 97, and why that's going to be called 97. But they're only using the premise of the series. They're not using the plot of the series. But I wish they'd use the plot. I mean, the series ends other than the significant thing of Xavier is leaving and Magneto is possibly joining every other character and status quo. Like, they're there no one's dead gene is back. So you can carry that thread forth and then place it in the comics, introduce us to Cassandra Nova, do all of that. And I would have had a lot more fun with it if it felt like a sort of sequel. I can't get into it.

If we want to be multiverse specific, though, or Earth specific, it's not exactly the Animated Series Earth, right? So it is not really.

Although the next volume, which technically is also doesn't reference the series, like, Professor X is in volume two, and volume two takes place after Battle World, and therefore is supposed to be continuously.

There are more Easter egg references to the series because the first issue of this starts off at, uh, the New Salem Mall, which is where The Animated Series also starts. So I thought that was when they.

Were playing laser tag. So, again, that's where I think, like totally, yeah, I think they hit the series well, and they gave us the voice of the characters. Like, you have Storm being very early written, like, very dramatic, and you have Jubilee being very 80, um, s 90s teeny bopper.

Yes. And there's a few things like the well, the Sentinels attacked an issue number one, and then Jean is trying to get everyone out, and there's a guy says giant robots, again, which I, uh, almost took as this was someone who was also at the mall when the giant robots attack in the first episode of The Animated. And then there's a perfect replica in one of the issues of the opening credits with, uh, the Xmen on one side and the quote unquote evil music on the other side with the exact same line up from the Animated show.

Yeah, uh, I liked that. And I liked how introducing Cassandra Nova it was modified. It made, uh, sense to me how you would have modified it to make her a clone of Xavier that was in sinister's pens or apocalypse pens, I think they say. And then have the Shadow King infect her. That gives her sort of the darkness that we know that she has in the comics, but with a much more easy to understand origin. So I like the adaptation element that they're doing here, but I don't know.

It'S interesting because even to your point about who is this for, there's a few in jokes about that, actually. When we were first reading them, we thought they were editorial errors that were in there. But there's a few times where Cassandra says something and then it's crossed out and says like, oh, no, this is two adults, and things like that. So it's almost like it's playing with that where what she's saying is for an adult comic book reading audience, but in the simulation, it would almost be for the cartoon appropriate. So it's almost like they're acknowledging that in the issue. Does it work? Is, I guess up to then your own preference.

Yeah. The other thing I have to say is I hate Infinity comics. I don't like them. Now, the current ones are formatted a little differently. This is very early in the Infinity comic, in the digital comic realm for Marvel. So this is like you flick and something gets added to the panel to create a sense of movement. Today's are more like web tunes.

I like it better than the scroll.

I don't like either, but I know I'm biased because I like a page. I like a grid, a panel, a page.

This is almost more like a film or TV show because it's directing your eye or it's trying to direct your eye to a specific shot, which I guess a panel is. Yeah.

Though it's confusing because sometimes I would reread a bubble and then I'd have to be like, oh, no, I did I read that one there's, the next one over there. And so it pulls you out of the sequential nature of sequential art. I think it pulls you out of it. So, again, I don't think it's made.

For it did take me a bit a bit longer to read it's. Like the few times I've read Amenga and my brain won't remember to read it in the correct order, and then I'll have to go back and read it again. There's a fun other couple of other things I wanted to mention. I love Jubilee is playing, I guess, the Xmen Arcade game at one point, which I just love. That is a great reference.

Why is it Jazzler and not her? And why is Jazzler wearing that 80s headband?

Yeah. And I think it was funny, uh, because I think I had that same, uh, feel. Because when you're growing up and you're watching Xmen, the Atomic series, and Jubilee is everywhere, and then you're picking up on other X Men things and it's like, Jubilee is not here. It's always like Psylock or Dazzler or all these other characters that weren't really featured too much on the animated show.

Yeah.

And then even when we see the kids, at one point, it was very Scotty Young art at one point. When you see Colossus uh, havoc. Nicolaler.

They're the ex babies.

Yeah, they're established. Oh, they are. Okay. Because I loved when Long Shot says, yeah, we're like the luckiest kids around. Like a nice little reference to his powers, too.

Yes, it is fun. The ex babies are in there. I also like, I thought you were going to pull out cassandra Nova turns.

Into yes, I was waiting for us. Of course, we had to talk about that. She is at one point and even says, what if?

Well, the fun thing about that panel, this is a real Marvel Nerd joke, is she asuachi saying what if? And Cyclops is saying, what the and it has the same punctuation as what the? Which, of course, is the parody comic that I also love. From the 90s Marvel did called what the question mark exclamation point.

Yeah, that was super fun. And then at 1.2, you also see the Xmen number one art, which is being blown up. It's like a billboard or graffiti on a wall. Then you see the wall exploding. So another kind of in reference, I guess there's all these things where the X Men are very much existing in this world, which actually is acknowledged in the plot, because Baron Kelly does acknowledge that the X Men have been around and are unknown quantity and things like that. So I guess it makes sense that they could have their own video games and their own billboards.

Yeah. I've, uh, talked a bit about the fact that we've revisited this Earth kind of. It's complicated, so I'm not going to count. Um, the future visits through. Like I said, right now there's a series going on that's adapting House of X in the Xmen 92 world, which is a fun exercise, but I still can't get into it. So technically, we haven't moved back to this world, but we have continued the Xmen 92 world. But regardless of that, do you want to go back to this world of Xmen 92 in comics in this way or in any other way?

Yes and no. I don't know. I'm a little undecided. The story kind of lost me at points because it's very kind of confusing because most of it is in this reality, virtual reality. So I wasn't in love with the story. But I do like the tone and the self referential element. So I think I would be on board for exploring more of that, especially since XM and proper can be so serious. As we were kind of talking about earlier.

You should definitely try, then, the Xmen 92 adaptation of House Events. It's very clever. It doesn't click for me. I can't get into it, so I don't want to go back. I don't even like that we went here in the first place. But that's okay. I appreciate what it's doing and can support it nonetheless.

Yes. Well, let us grab our book of Shakespearean quotations and backflip into our final segment, Pondering Possibilities. Will the future you describe be averted? Woohoo.

Finally we got to use for anyone who didn't know that clip, that Segue intro segment intro that we use is from the Xmen anime series.

Yes.

How perfect.

What are we talking about for our pondering possibilities?

Well, like I said, there are these sequel series sort of I didn't want to go into them. Technically, we don't do SQL series for this segment anyway. I try to do things back in the main universe to see if they're inspired by the alternate universe. There is nothing like that that exists. So that was a wash. So I figured, this is perfect timing. Let's truly ponder the possibilities. Let's talk about Xmen 97. So if we have listeners who aren't aware a while back now, at least a year ago, it was announced that Xmen 97 would be a new cartoon series that is a continuation directly of the Xmen the Animated Series. For all intents and purposes, we can call Xmen 92 just like the comics do. And just a few weeks ago at San Diego ComicCon, we got panels and presentations and clips that haven't leaked. They were not fully colored anyway, so it wasn't a trailer. The clips never get shared. But some of the still images of who the villains will be, who the lineup and roster will be, what the showrunner is trying to do. Brand new showrunner. Though he has honored and celebrated Eric and Julia Lewald publicly and Larry Houston. It was announced at San Diego Comic Con will come back to direct the opening titles of Xmen 97, which is so cool.

And a couple of cast members, I don't think they've confirmed even steal the whole cast, but several cast members from.

We know Leonor is back as Rose.

All that matters to molded as Wolverine. I think the power of this series, too, for anyone who grew up in a certain time, you just hear these people's voices. I mean, at least I do when I read the comics, I really hear those Animated Series voices despite all the movies and Patrick Stewart and all those other things. Like when I read them, those are the people I hear. So it's so great to have them.

Coming back and to a person. I don't think there's anyone. Mr. Citizen, Magneto, everyone's voice was perfect to a person. So, yeah, let's talk about Xmen 97. It doesn't premiere until next fall. So I was actually thinking, oh, should we wait and cover this when the series is coming out? But that is so far away. We can cover one of the Xmen 92 sequel series when that is coming out. I am so excited for the new series.

Yes, me too.

I think what's cool is I think it is going to do what I felt like the comics should have done, xmen 92 comics should have done. It's going to definitely continue with the exact canon and continuity intact from the original series. Clearly, it's going to move it in a new direction. We already know from the end of the series that Xavier is gone. We know that the writers of the series had an intention of continuing with Magneto and Storm in charge and dealing with what that meant. So I think we're going to get to see all of that play out in a new series. What I'm really excited about, too, is I would imagine that Bode Mayo, the new showrunner, and the whole team are going to do what the original series did and keep adapting comics. So while it's going to be so cool that they continue the original animated Series story, I think they're going to adapt stuff we're familiar with. So the potentials are endless. And that's so cool. They could adapt through to croqua.

Exactly. What will be cool is seeing potentially more modern storylines. But with this team in this configuration. Dressed as they are here. With the distinct personalities that they had on the TV show. But seeing these other storylines. It's very what if kind of in that because it's taking this specific group and how they were conceived and putting them maybe on Cricoa. Because we're never going to see that specific group in the comics on. Uh. Cricoa.

Yeah. Or reconfiguring it, even. We know Sinister is going to play a big part of the 97, so perhaps he plays a larger part in Cricoa. I mean, he plays a pretty big part in the comics, but maybe instead of Apocalypse, it's Sinister. And I think they could do lots of interesting things. Of course, comics pre the 92 series that they still haven't adapted. I mean, there's so much fodder, needless to say.

Yeah.

So it's going to be very cool to see what gets adapted. I'm sure it's going to be constructed the same way with a serial arc of storytelling, but somewhat episodic and very entertaining, but very adult in orientation. I mean, it reminds me, I'm sure, of Motu revelations of the Heman sequel series that Kevin Smith did. That's mhm also coming.

Well, what I think they will have in common is a few wink wink jokes and references to the previous thing, but basically keeping it serious, which I.

Think is well, taking the source matter seriously, I think is the important thing.

And in fact, you could make the argument that the Xmen was much more serious than the original Masters of the Universe series was. So in a way, like, I think if they stick to the original tone of the Xmen animated series, that's what they really i, uh, think it seems like that is what they want to do. And what they should do is not to make it a little more jokey or make it more serious. Really try to hone in on that tone of the original series.

Yeah. So one question I have in our pondering possibilities so every time there have been two, every time there have been an explicit X Men reference in the MCU live action, they have played what they have called the Xmen 97 theme, which is an adaptation of the Xmen 92 theme.

I believe it goes a little something like this. Okay.

It's more subtle than I do. So what do you think that means? Is that for, uh, fun, or do you think that there is going to somehow be a canonical relationship between Xmen 97 and our live action MCU?

That's a good question. Yes, I think it would be. Gosh. Could we see Xmen 97 as another? It is in itself a multiverse in the greater MCU multiverse because, hey, we know from the Doctor Strange movie there's multiverses that are entirely skulls and entirely paint. Maybe there's a multiverse where everyone and it's not it's animated. So they're not even like, oh, this is just up there, like flesh and blood people. It's animated and there's these characters. Uh.

Yeah. Well, I think we can assume it's in the multiverse. I guess my question is, is it a prequel?

Oh, yeah. Well or is it going to be something almost with, uh, the Loki timelines, where there'll be something funky with the timelines where it is occurring at the same time as current Amcu movies? I don't know, but either one, I think it would be great to have it be canon happening at the same time as the proper six one six MCU.

But what would that mean? Would that mean there's some sort of multiversal visit in a movie? Do you want to see Benedict Cumberbatch live action interacting with animated Rogue Voice by Lenorazon?

Uh, yeah, I think that would be fun. I think Secret Wars or something like that, which is supposed to be big, or Menda Kang movie, something that is going to be several years down the road, but something that is supposed to be kind of huge. And also, how do you top Infinity War in Endgame, where you had all these characters, uh, coming together and many times, many for the first time? I think one way to top it is, let's get some animated characters from the What If series. Let's get some animated characters from Xmen 97.

So you think we'd pull them in live?

No, I think they would remain animated like the Roger Rabbit. But I think that's what's going to give it it's like, oh, it's not going to be we already saw in Endgame and, uh, in Infinity War, all these characters coming together. So I think the way to up that game is like, have the animated versions of them interact.

Well, I think that will be a little I think it would be strange, like it works into the spiderverse to have Spiderham show up and have a different character style because they're all animated. I don't know if they go the Roger Rabbit route, but it is an interesting idea. You asked earlier about the adaptation of Secret Wars. And so the set up so far that we've seen in the MCU is for the 2015 Secret Wars, right? The 1980.

C. Not very short.

No, they're the Beyond Plucking characters to make them fight in Battle World. It was designed to sell action figures and there's not much story to it. But all of the set up with the Incursions, especially using the language of Incursion in the MCU, is setting up the 2015 Secret Wars because in that there are a bunch of Incursions and the Illuminati are formed and are trying to stop it. And it involves a lot of Fantastic Four, reed, Richard's, Dr, Doom Plot, and then ultimately the Ultimate Universe and the main universe smashed together. The multiverse collapses. This battle world is formed. So for Secret Wars, you get this sort of alternate universe storytelling. Doom is in charge of it, and then from that, the new universe is rebuilt, which basically fuses together, restores us to our original six one six, pretty much, but brings in stuff like Miles Morales and addresses some of the stuff to collapse the ultimate universe in the comic books. So we're adapting the 2015 Secret Wars. I have no doubt. I don't know how far that'll go. And if The Animated Series would be one of the worlds, and if the Incursions would bring those worlds together. Right. If The Animated Series world is positioned in such a way that's going to smash up against the paint world that America Chavez has brought Dr. Strain through.

Or will we see will they not be animated? And will something in a giant event, like maybe they don't want to wait that long for this, but where suddenly those characters go from animated into live action, and that's how we even see live action rogue not played by Leonardo. That is another way, what they did with Haley outlook. Yeah, totally. It would be.

We met Captain Carter. It's a different Captain Carter. We have confirmed by the writer that the Captain Carter in Multiverse of Madness is not the Captain Carter from the what if. But that's sort of how we get introduced to her.

Yeah, I mean, I definitely think the way that they are keeping everything interconnected and how they even did pull from what if into the Doctor Strange movie and other things, I do think they will not keep this as its own isolated property. So I'm excited to see how they do that.

I guess the question is what that means.

And I have another question for you. If Xmen 97 is a huge hit, which I think it will be very successful, do you think another thing we mentioned earlier in this conversation, batman The Animated Series would have a revival over at the Distinguished competition. They're always one upping. They're always mirroring each other.

I want to say. Well, so there's a comic continuation of Batman The Animated Series that's been coming out for maybe a year. It's pretty recent. The adventures continue. I think that the audio podcast that they've been doing of Batman, I think it might take place in The Animated Series world, but I'm not totally sure. I'm not an expert on Batman stuff. I know that there are rumors that the Harley Animated Series is going to go to the Batman Animated Series.

That would be fun in one of.

The new seasons episodes. I think there's a shot in the trailer that people think is the Batman Animated Series, and so you get to see her show up in that. I would not be surprised if the series itself were to be brought back in some way, aside from these little Easter eggy ways. Yeah, I definitely would not be surprised.

Yeah, and that would be great on 90s Nostalgic, but it's perfect for us.

Yeah. And Kevin Conroy can return the character that he's been voicing for so long, so I think that would be wonderful. All right. Well, I have been guido, is it.

Time to end the episode? Because I don't know. Because my watch has stopped. You know why? It's been Magnetized. Like they lied from the original.

I don't know how well that works. Well, it's a good moment. First of all, it's the season finale.

Yeah, it is. But he dropped it in, I think I said to you, separately, I really want them. That's how they introduce magneto. Like, he's not in the first movie. Because we've already had so much Magneto. Last line. First X Men movie. My watch has stopped. Why, professor? Because it's been Magnetized. I mean, how cool would that be for anyone who grew up on the Animated series? For that to be the last line of the first new Xmen movie, we'll, um, see.

All right.

Anyway, I've been rob, thank you so much for watching Watchers. That is a wrap.

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In the words of Otto, keep pondering the possibilities.