Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

>> Rob: Welcome to Dear Watchers, an omniversal comic book podcast where we usually do a deep dive into the multiverse.

>> Guido: We are traveling with you through the stories, the worlds, and with the creators that make up an omniverse of, fictional realities we all love. And your watchers on this journey are me, Guido, and.

>> Rob: And me, Rob. And before we introduce today's interview, what's new in our little section of the multiverse?

>> Guido: Keto, let's not spare any time. Nothing's new this week. Let's get on with our really exciting guests that we've been waiting a long time to have on.

>> Rob: And joining us on today's podcast is the amazing comic book and tv writer, Tim Sheridan. Guido, as you said, this has been a long time in the making, right?

>> Guido: Yeah. And we have a full introduction to Tim's, work, if you're not familiar, once we get started. In our conversation with him, we first met, you might remember if you listened to our New York Comic Con coverage back in October. If you're feeling nostalgic for New York Comic Con, go back and listen to it again. In fact, saying that makes me think I kind of want to listen to it again. So it feels like we're there, because we are kind of at the halfway point. No, I guess not yet. Two months from the halfway point. Anyway, we met Tim and co creator of Alan Scott, Green Lantern, Kean Tormi, who couldn't join us at New York Comic Con. But Tim's work extends well beyond Green Lantern, and we are going to get into it. And finally, it's here. And I have a feeling he's going to be back after today again, because there is some great work coming from him that we'll want to talk about.

>> Rob: Yeah, I can't wait to talk more to him. But his two latest projects are with characters and worlds that we both have long experiences with. Like you said, alan Scott, the Green Lantern and also masters of the universe. He worked on the new revelation tv show.

>> Guido: And we're not going to spoil too much of those. I'd say we would have liked to, but of course, we know that tv shows are quite protective of what's going on, so we talk about he man generally. So if you haven't watched those series, don't worry, you can still join in this conversation. Same thing with Alan Scott, Green Lantern. We do get a little bit more into the specifics of that, but still broad strokes. So if you haven't yet explored those, you can join us. And I bet you'll want to watch and read those by the time this conversation is done.

>> Rob: And what's one thing that you're taking away from today's conversation? For me, I think for me, it's that Tim talked a lot about not adding on top of a character, but rather going into their history and pulling things out. So with Alan being a queer character, he's not like, putting that queerness on him, but he's going back into the history and seeing, oh, where was that in the past? And where can I pull out? And the Alan Scott series is full of these kind of deep cut DC references that have always been there that Tim's kind of bringing to the surface now. And it made me want to go back and read some of that classic Alan Scott and see where the seeds of that character really started with.

>> Guido: Yeah, it was funny to hear him talk about doing that, because he even used that as a way to explain why he's actually not a fan of multiversal storytelling a lot of the time is, in part because it doesn't do that, that really good storytelling. And I think we've talked about this really good multiversal storytelling can do this, which is pull that dna out and shed it in a new light, which is really cool to hear them explore. And something I have been thinking about is our conversation about fans relationship to stories and how they might feel some sense of ownership over them and where that might come from historically, evolutionarily, with the change in how we consume content and how comics have always been something fans feel possession over because they're something you can buy, they're something you can hold, they're something you can control the pace of. And so talking through that double edged sword of fans'relationship to stories was really interesting and barely scratched the surface, but was great to hear Tim's insight into, as a creator who's interacted with a lot of fans.

>> Rob: Yeah, it's making me think the day this is coming out, the Super bowl was the day before, and whoever wins, the fans always say, we won, but you're not, on the team, but you have that ownership over the team. And I think there's a same kind of relationship with fans of comic books and tv shows. They have that same kind of connection of really being part of it.

>> Guido: Yeah, it's clearly all very human, just a human thing. And so it's fun to explore those aspects of being human. So let's cut in, because I don't want to take away any more time from our chat with Tim.

>> Rob: Yes, with that. Dear Watchers, welcome to episode 127. And let's check out what's happening in the omniverse with our travels. Today's interview. Great Scott. Or should I say, great Ellen Scott. It's our guest, Tim Sheridan. Hi, Tim.

>> Tim Sheridan: Hi. thank you so much. My voice cracked on the first syllable that came out of my mouth. You're like, it's audio only. I'm like, I got this. And then voice cracked, first syllable. Hi.

>> Guido: Oh, welcome.

>> Tim Sheridan: I'm so glad we're finally doing this. We talked about doing this back at, like, New York Comic Con October, so apologies. but I guess I know you've been busy.

>> Guido: Life gets in the way. And it's nice because now we actually have so much of your work out in the world to talk about, which is really exciting.

>> Tim Sheridan: about my work.

>> Guido: Listen about yourself for a moment, because I'm going to tell our listeners who you are. They know from our New York Comic Con episode that you were the highlight of my New York comic Con. So thank you for joining because you are a storytelling legend already.

>> Tim Sheridan: At least.

>> Guido: I know that makes you sound older than you are, but that's not the intent.

>> Tim Sheridan: You have no idea.

>> Guido: So Tim has written Teen Titans Academy, Shazam, and a number of other DC books. Is the co creator of the Alan Scott the Green Lantern series, an extraordinary tale that's coming out now that I think we're going to dive a lot into today. Issue five is out at the end of February. Can still be ordered for sure. And I will say I noticed that some issues had of six and DC removed it. So I'm extremely hopeful that there's more and extremely upset that DC does not have consistent trade dress. But moving on from that, I can't.

>> Tim Sheridan: Wait to talk about that.

>> Guido: Tim also has written for a lot of tv shows. The Dragon Age tv series, the Transformers show, DC Superhero Girls, Teen Titans Go, wrote the Batman, long Halloween, animated films, a few other Superman, and other DC films. Most important to my heart and soul, masters of the universe, revelation and revolution, the first two seasons of the Netflix recall or whatever we're calling it. And, Tim is just a generous, creative, revolutionary storyteller. And so we are very excited to welcome Tim Sheridan.

>> Tim Sheridan: Well, thank you for that rousing introduction. man, I feel like I only really started doing this really for real in about late 2015, 2016, something like that. So I feel like when I hear those credits, it's wild to me that I've gotten to work on so many things that have been meant so much to me since I was a kid. I grew up such a fan of, huge fan of Transformers. And I got to work on that show for Netflix. he man, Getting to work in the DC Universe is unreal. I was a DC kid almost from the start. I think actually, before I got into DC as a. Into, I was watching cartoons like Spider man and his amazing friends, or Spider man and his amazing furniture, as I call it. Anybody who watches that, so it's incredible. I don't take a lot of time to look at my IMDb. When I see it, it's like, oh, man, that's a lot. Maybe I should retire. I feel like I've gotten to do so much. We were talking before we started recording about Doctor who, and I'm like, that's why I don't retire, because there's still a couple of white whales out there like Doctor who and Star Trek that I've never gotten to work on. So maybe someday.

>> Guido: That's what's so cool about your career and your work and so much of what we want to dig into, because obviously our podcast is all about world building. That's why we explore multiverses, to think about how people construct worlds and then how you can deviate from them to tell really good stories. And you get to play in all these sandboxes. So you get to constantly tell stories that have canon and that have, history. And you have to then make a lot of decisions about what you're going to do with that. Are you going to build on it? Are you going to retcon it? Are you going to do something different and hope people accept it?

>> Tim Sheridan: Some of that is true, that you get to blue sky and dream really big in these situations, but I think what a lot of people. It's funny, because I think this is true of a lot of comic book fans. I don't think there's a large number of comic book fans that don't really understand the. Because nobody's ever explained it to them or shown it to them. the sort of hierarchy and the way things work. I mean, I hear all the time from people who will either praise or condemn writers for everything, and we're just people working at a job. And, there are layers and layers of people above us in companies like Warner Brothers and DC or Netflix. And, we don't just get to do what we want. We may have, opinions and ideas, and we might pitch big ideas, but we don't always get to do them. everything we do has to be approved and sanctioned, by the powers that be. So, yeah, it's wonderful to get to play in those sandboxes and dream big, but part of our job is to know how to be able to play in the sandbox with everybody else who we have to play with on the playground, which are the executives and editors, and the showrunners and everybody else, that is involved in the game. I would love to just sit here and take credit for masters of the universe, revelation, and revolution, but that's Kevin Smith's show. He's the showrunner. And we've got Teddy Biaselli at Netflix and Rob David at Mattel. And these guys are like this triumvirate of these incredible producers, and I'm just happy to have a seat at the table and be able to write and pitch ideas at them, and be a part of that story. but everything we do in entertainment, comic books, tv, movies, everything, it's a team sport. I'd love to just take credit for everything. and I hate taking all the blame for everything, but the truth is, it's a team sport, and some of us just kind of get out there and become a face of something for fans. And, I think we do them a disservice because they think that we have this unilateral power to change everything or make everything the way we want to, which we can do, by the way. Comic book fans, I think, feel that way, because when you do a creator owned book, of course you do, you own it. It's your ip. You get to do whatever you want to an extent. but when you're playing in someone else's sandbox, playing with established ip, it's a tightrope walk sometimes. and it's not just with the executives and the producers and the people that you work for and with, but also with fans. Fans expect, certain things from certain properties. I think there was, I don't want to talk too much about any of the, there were a lot of people that were saying negative things about masters of the universe revelation before it came out and right after it came out. And I think some of it was because they just expected something different, because they had an idea in their head and they had a head cannon, and they had a way that they would approach doing the show. and that's a really tough line to walk. I don't think any of us had any idea that there would be anyone who would be like, well, this isn't what I wanted, because we were a bunch of nerds who loved he man and masters of the universe. And we were like, well, this is what we know. And it was the same thing with, I think, with Alan Scott, too. When that came. Some, there were some naysayers, some people who, they had political opinions and they wanted to sort, know, lash out at the book before it came out and try to tank it before it ever hit the shelves. and some of them had those intentions. And then there were some people who genuinely, whether it's right or wrong, just didn't like where DC had taken the character in recent years. and they wanted to reject that. I just feel like if you reject it, whatever, go read something else. You don't have to talk about it, you don't have to tweet about it. You have to yuck someone else's yum. I mean, other people like, sorry, but yeah, there's plenty of comic books.

>> Guido: It was actually at this year's New York Comic Con, and I think I've always had that thought, but really at Comic Con, which for me is a very moving and emotional experience all the time. But it's also such a good reminder to me. Not everything is for me, because there are so many incredible artists there. There are these panels, there are people who love these things that I just don't like, and that's okay. And I really love that I'm around a bunch of people who all love something that's connected, but we love different things for different reasons. And that's okay. It's not all for me.

>> Tim Sheridan: I quote this all the time, and I'm probably totally bastardizing it by now, because I've said it so many times. But Ted Sarandos of Netflix was on a podcast, and it was the most incredible thing I'd ever heard about entertainment. And it's very interesting coming from the guy who runs Netflix. he said that the way we, as viewers consume movies, is different today than it was when we were kids, where back in the day, m the movie was in charge. You had to show up on time. You had to leave your house, show up on time somewhere, sit quietly in the dark with a bunch of other people. You couldn't get up to go leave without missing stuff, to go to the bathroom or go to the concession. And you were looking at something that was literally larger than life in front of you. It was huge. It had the control and the power over the viewer. And now we watch movies on small screens in our living room. It's smaller than real life. We have a remote in our hand. We can stop it and start it whenever we want. We can get up, we can leave. We can do whatever. So we have control over it in a way that it is bound to influence our opinion about a thing. When we feel that we have dominion over it. When we feel that, well, this is mine, I am entitled to stop, start, control it, whatever. So if I don't like what I see, how could you do that to the thing that I love, that is mine? and I think comic books were the harbinger of that, because comic books, you were always able to. It was always smaller than you, and you could always put it down and pick it back up, and you had sort of control over how you experienced the story. Yeah, I'm not forming an opinion about this. I think, to me, it's just a fact that we experience comic books in the way that we're now experiencing movies in our living rooms. And I think that leads to us feeling a sense of entitlement is the wrong word, but more invested in the results and the product than we might have been at a time when we had three channels on tv and we were just like, whatever I can get, I will put in my eyeballs, because give me new shows. now it's just there's so much there that not everything's for you and you can choose something else.

>> Guido: Well, in that sense of ownership is, of course, such a double edged sword, because it's why there is this community with such a deep emotional connection and investment, and also why there is the other side of the community of people who think they can direct it or should be able to direct it or want a particular, need or agenda met by it.

>> Tim Sheridan: It runs the gamut. And social media is m guilty for a lot of stuff, too. I mean, everybody's a critic now. There used to be a time when critics were people who studied the media and went to school, even, and could really analyze something from an educated perspective. And I think now, the adage has always been, everyone's a critic, but not everyone had a microphone and a megaphone before. That's the difference. Everybody was a critic, but nobody had a way to amplify their criticism. Now they do. And so it's changed the landscape and the dynamic, really, since I really got into this, it's been happening. Even when I started my first real job in tv was, like, in 2015, 2016. And, even since then, it has evolved and in some cases, devolved in terms of how we deal with media over social media as a creator.

>> Rob: I mean, not the trolls out there, but are you at all ever listening to the critics and saying, oh, they make this point, and is that ever affecting your work?

>> Tim Sheridan: I mean, I love, love, this is going to sound strange, but I love really smart criticism and really good notes. whether it's from my editors or my showrunner, or whether it's from an executive or if it's from a critic or a reviewer, or even a reaction from a fan. I just have great respect for really good, smart, insightful criticism of what I've done, because let me tell you, nobody is a bigger critic of anything I've ever done than me. And so, you can't really hurt me, because, believe me, I've already gone through it. I put myself through it. so I love it. What I don't love as much is lazy critique, where it's kind of ill informed. And I hate to say this, but even if it's positive, there was a piece that just came out. I won't name the site, but where they anchored the whole thing around the fact that I, Tim Sheridan, had added this idea, this concept of a power of time travel to Alan Scott, and that's just ill informed. This has always been something that Alan Scott has had power over. It's been part of his power set. Not every writer, not every editor has dealt with that, but it's always been, So I just feel like that's. Do your mean. This is a weird thing to say, but, I get credit or blame all the time on the Alan Scott book for how I've changed the canon or done something. This is, like, I said a weird thing to say, but I don't think I've added anything to Alan Scott's story that someone else didn't do before me. That isn't, referencing something someone else did. Or what I came in to do was to sort of take the toys where they were and put them together and play with the toys and give you the story that we've kind of been waiting for for a little while. know, obviously there are things that are new going on in this story. The golden age red Lantern is a new character, but he was created by johns. Like, that came out before we learned about him, before, the, Know, I don't like saying, oh, I haven't done a thing to add to Alan Scott's lore. but that was kind of the assignment in my mind. I was like, look, I'm not here to break the toys. I'm here to play with the toys. That's what I want to do, and I'm not going to try to upend everything and change everything. Am I shading things? Am I adding new layers to it? Yeah. Am I making connections that maybe weren't made before? Yeah. It always bugged me that when Alan Scott has these weird powers and one of them is he can walk through walls. And it always bugged me because he always called it moving through the fourth dimension. And we know that now. We always think of the fourth dimension as time. And it just drove me nuts for years, that idea of the fourth dimension. So I was like, well, how would that work if it was related to time travel, a power that he's a time manipulation, something that we know he's had as part of his power set before? how would that work? And so I tried to make a connection and explain it in the book. that's not really adding to anything. That's just sort of me saying, here's the. By the way, it also came out of the mouth of a very unreliable narrator of the Red Lantern. So who's to say that another editor or creator is going to come down the line and say, yeah, he was lying. Right? And clarify, yeah, I don't know.

>> Guido: Well, I think that's what some of the best stories of these properties that have been around for so long do, is they're taking these strands of the DNA and they're just combining them a little differently or shading them, as you said, a little differently, putting their voice into it. And I think that's what's so interesting about the fact that so much of your work has been in these pre existing properties for Alan Scott specifically. What is your history with Alan? Were you a fan of his?

>> Tim Sheridan: Well, we dated for a, well.

>> Rob: his lovers haven't turned out too well, Tim, like.

>> Tim Sheridan: when I pitched the story to, we had a little summit, with Jeff, Johns and Jeremy Adams, Rob Van Didti, our editors, Andrew Marino, Marquise Draper and Katie Kubert. And, Katie, the group editor, when I was finished telling the story, pitching the whole story, issues one through six, she was just like sitting there devastated, like her head was in her hands. And I was like, are you okay? And she said, poor Alan. Does everyone he loves die? I was like, well, not everyone, but, that to me was, it was an interesting thing to think about at the time. And it cemented the idea in my head that, yeah, that is how this story has to begin. Because for me, this is a story about a man coming out of the darkness into the light. And we had to start in a pretty dark place. As you read the issues, as we've gotten through four issues now, I think we've gotten to a place where I think we talk more about this in issue five, maybe. but you start to realize that some of the things that you didn't think were intended before were intentional. Before were intentional, which is that all the guys that Alan, had any kind of relationship with, ah, they all look suspiciously like Johnny Ladd. And that's more than just him having a, yeah, I love watching people sort of put the pieces together as the issues move on. I mean, the whole thing was planned out and so I knew that this is going to land in this issue, this is going to happen here, and people are going to not know what this means until this happens. And, unfortunately, I think a lot of times when you do, in many ways, this was designed as more of a graphic novel than as a monthly because I think there's a lot of folks now, because of streaming culture and because of the availability of trade paperbacks and collected editions, and a lot of people wait for those to come out to read a story, to read it as a complete thought. I think there's a lot of folks who aren't accustomed to the monthly storytelling idea and who can get impatient and not want to wait a month to, know what happens next, or God forbid, three months to know what that meant in issue one. but in the end, that's comic books. hopefully. The problem is when you have an end date, when it's like, well, it's only six issues. So it's like, well, then I want to know everything. Tell me everything now. I don't want to have to see this thing strung out over six issues. which you mentioned the trade dress where it's like issue one and then two of six and three of six and then issue four with no of six. let me just say I was as surprised as you when I got my comps for issue four. I opened them, I was like, wait, issue one. I was like, okay, fine, they didn't do of six. I don't love that because I think it's good to tell people right out the gate, this is going to be six issues. but whatever, it's not my department. and then that was like, oh, they fixed it. Two of six, then three of six, and then four comes out. And I was like, oh, now everybody's going to think there's more coming, so.

>> Guido: We shouldn't get our hopes up.

>> Tim Sheridan: For this volume. Yeah, let me tell you. Not that nobody's talked to me about it. If there are, then somebody else is going to be doing it. Nobody's told me this story is six issues. and, it was designed to be six issues. And, hopefully we'll leave it in a place that will be surprising but satisfying, inevitable. and we'll leave the toys in a place where someone else can come in and tell some great stories with these characters in the future.

>> Rob: Is it fun with Alan writing for a specific time period? Because it's so interesting being set in the. There's some tropes or some things that you probably wouldn't have access to, like modern technology, and there's a different kind of language. Do you think of that at all, like, setting it in the time period?

>> Tim Sheridan: Let me tell you the biggest hurdle for know, Keon's been cool about it. Keon Tormi, my partner in, that every time I need to introduce new information into this world and into this scene, I'm like, okay, I guess it's another newspaper. there's no cell phone, there's no social media. It's not like you're going to be watching it on television, necessarily. you'll note that there's some information coming at you now through doyby's radio in his car, which, by the way, was not always. They didn't all have radios, but dang it, Goitrud's got a radio. and in issue four, there's a family gathered in the living room listening to the radio as there's some information coming to you. Because I'm like, I just can't do another newspaper. I can't put another newspaper in here because when you do a newspaper, it opens up a whole other thing. Where is the artist going to letter the newspaper? Is the letterer going to letter the newspaper? Is it going to happen in house at DC? It's kind of like it's this game of hot potato that happens, and you kind of get through the process and sort of like everybody's not. It. I feel like, oh, there's got to be another way to put information into this scene from the outside world. well, you had the spectre, too.

>> Rob: Who'S like a character who I guess, can kind of bring in information from the netherworld.

>> Tim Sheridan: I look at the specter and the reason why a lot of people be like, he's written out of character. And I'm like, well, yeah, that's the point. He literally tells you that he's out of character in the book. It's like Doctor who. We were talking a little bit about Doctor who, although, you're new to doctor who, so you haven't necessarily gone through all this yet. But when the doctor regenerates and becomes a new man, basically there's a period where he's not quite done yet and he's still cooking and he's kind know out there and he's trying to put the pieces together of who he is. And I feel like that's where Jim Corrigan and the Specter are. The Specter force are at this point. He died in 1940, and this is early 1941. He says, like, I only recently died and became an agent of the almighty. you're not the only one having identity issues, he says to Green Lantern. so there's that whole m soup that's happening. But to me also, the specter is a force that should kind of, if not exist outside of time and space, at least sort of walk those lines, really dance on those lines. And so there's an issue in Ostrander's, Specter, run in the 90s, where they deal with the topic of homophobia. And you see Jim Corrigan, the specter, exhibiting very homophobic behavior, and ideals, and goes to, the pearly gates, and he talks to Michael and he wants to, like, these people are wrong, right? And so there's a whole conversation that happens where basically Michael's like, that's not our business. We're after the killers and the murderers. That's who God's vengeance is reserved. That's, that's literally what he tells Alan in issue three of Alan Scott. So it is completely in character, except that that happens in his timeline 50 years in the future. but to me, there's two ways to look at it. He's either sort of outside of time, and these ideas conflict and bounce around, and especially when he's cooking still, when he's just becoming this version of the Specter force. but also there's also this idea, like, when you're new on the job and you do your job perfectly to the letter because you know all the rules, and then, like, in 50 years after you've been doing your job a while, you kind of let things slide and you have to be reminded, no, this is how you do your job. To me, that's what is also possibly.

>> Guido: Happening in that there stuff like that, like the lore, that issue, even when you're working on any project. But you could start with Alan, but feel free to go into anything, he man, anything. How are you approaching it? Are you using your own knowledge because you're clearly a fan of all these properties? Are you doing research before you even pitch? Are you doing research after you, like, how do you get all of that in? Because there are a lot of little subtle nods in the Alan Scott story that it's just clear you're calling back to things.

>> Tim Sheridan: I'm so glad you redirected me back to your question, because I am the worst interview, because I will just keep talking and then realize, oh, I haven't answered your question at all. In terms of my relationship with Alan, before writing this book, it was like most people's relationship with Alan Scott. I didn't grow up with Alan Scott because he wasn't really a main character in the books I was reading when I was a kid. There would be references to him. I remember the mystery of, wait, who is this blonde green Lantern guy? Like, I don't know who this, because I think Hal Jordan was in cartoons when I was a kid and I knew him as the Green Lantern. His costume was different, and it was as I got older and was reading more comics, I understood more the golden age, and the very confusing versions of the canon, whether they existed or didn't exist or whether it was another earth or whether timelines and, I don't know. there was just all kinds of different ways to look at it. but I didn't gravitate toward golden age heroes, and I didn't gravitate toward Alan Scott. I remember when the earth two book happened, and, I was like, oh, he's gay, in this, which is an interesting thing to do. I hadn't ever really considered it. There were a lot of people who had, who read golden age green Lantern comics and said, oh, this is coded. Which, I don't know. I never really read them that way, but I guess I can see it now. I think a lot of people, because the word queer gets used a lot, but it's the old meaning of OD, but it gets used so much that I think a lot of people looked at it like, this is coded as queer. Well, it's not coded. It literally is OD. but who knows? I don't know. I mean, there could absolutely have been some reasoning behind, know, that was interesting. And then I started writing future state, and Titans Academy was my first comics I did at DC after having worked in DC animation stuff for Warner Brothers. But the first time ever working with DC comics, really. and Alan Scott came out of the closet to his kids in the universe, prime earth. and I was like, oh, okay, interesting. And I think, like everybody, I was like, oh, that's interesting, because, his son Todd is gay. so that's an interesting dynamic that you don't see a lot, and, I'm kind of fascinated to see where that plays out. I'm kind of one of those people. You introduce new information about a character, and I'm like, oh, this will be interesting. I can see it's because I'm a storyteller or writer. I'm like, oh, there are story possibilities here. Let's see where that goes, rather than, wait, that's not the way it's always been. I'm like, who wants the way it's go back and read the way it's always been. But now we get new possible stories here, new ways to go with it. so that was it. And then, so I still didn't really dive into the history of Alan Scott, until Jeff Johns. We were working on Flashpoint beyond, and when we were wrapping up, Jeff called me, and he was pitching me this idea for the new golden age and some stuff that he thought we should do and we wanted to do. And he said, I think that you have an Alan Scott story in you, like, in the 1930s, and him as a closeted gay superhero during that time, and, ah, really arguably the most famous superhero in the world, at that moment. and then we started talking about his idea for a golden age red lantern arch nemesis. And that's when I was just like, oh, yeah, now that we have four issues out, we can talk about this, which is, he's like, yeah. We were like, oh, I don't remember. I think he was like, oh, it'll be like the Soviets answer to the Green Lantern will be the red Lantern. And I don't know which one of us said it, but I was like, yeah, but the history of Alan Scott is that he marries his enemies. He married two, said, you know, to be Alan Scott, to be an, needs to be, that needs to be a romantic relationship. It needs to be Batman and know this needs to be that kind of thing. And even more than that, like Catwoman, I wouldn't say is, you know, but let's dial it up even more. Let's have it know what if Hal Jordan and Sinestro were, so that really got me excited, and that's when I went in and really dove deep into Alan Scott Lore. and I started at the beginning and decided that this was all going to be rooted in the golden age and really specifically the golden age before just up until the formation of the JSA and before World War II. And while I know a lot about what is coming for Alan Scott down the line, I kind of divorced myself from it in building this story, because I want to know what Alan knows at this point. I want to sort of come at it from his perspective and not know everything that's coming down the, so that's kind of how I've approached it. So you'll see, I really, really went back to basics in terms of the golden age and trying to make connections and explain things and give you a little bit more, some more layers and some more detail on why things happened the way they did for him in all american comics number 16 and so forth.

>> Guido: Similar, to talking about Doctor who before we were recording. Reading your Alan Scott makes me want to take in more of the golden age, because you're doing that, you're pulling those threads, you're bringing that in, even though that's something I have no connection to, have no relationship to, and in a vacuum would probably not have engaged. You're making me want to go back and absorb it, because I'm wonderful now in this story and this character and what you're doing with that.

>> Tim Sheridan: That's the whole thing. I remember when I did, the long Halloween animated movies, I went out there when I was promoting them, and I was trying to explain to people that I think there were a lot of folks who were nervous about the movies, and they were like, what is this going to be? Why are you trying to replace the thing that I love? And I was like, but that's not what we're doing. We're not trying to replace a thing that you love. We're trying to celebrate the thing that you love and hopefully get you to go back and pick up that book again and read it. hopefully these movies will encourage more people who haven't read the long Halloween to go pick it up and read that. To me, it's a celebration of it. So this book, hopefully Alan Scott, is a celebration of the golden age and of Alan Scott's origins. That'll get people maybe interested and go back DC. I was so happy they put out a facsimile edition of his origin comic, all american 16, the week that Alan Scott number one came out. which is a great way to sort of come at that story. You really kind of needed to read it too, for issue two because I couldn't get into a lot of detail on some of the particulars of the origin, but certainly we referenced them in issue two. but it's like we were talking about before we started recording about Doctor who, where, watching classic Doctor who is kind of an acquired taste. There's so many people who grew up on it and who love it. There's people who have learned to love it because of the new series. But the rubber mask monsters and the cardboard walls and stuff take a little bit of getting used to the style of the way they told the story. Like five acts, 20 minutes each, every week, and every end of every 20 minutes, the doctor was about to die, or the companion was about to, or the assistant, as we said back then, was about to die. golden age comics, to me, are a lot like that, where you can read this book. And I'm glad to hear that it's exciting you to go back and experience and read Golden Age books. But I caution you that comic books in the golden age were very different animals than, they are today. So you can see why we tell these stories the way we do, why it's been so fun going back to the story, because there's a huge opportunity to add in layers, and dimension and real world stakes to stories that when you read them without really any historical context. A lot of the heroes all sound the same in those books, and they're supposed to. That was how they sold the comic books to kids. He's just like Superman, he's just like Green Lantern. but the villains are kind of all the same. The kind of stuff they're coming up against in the beginning.

>> Rob: And then Alan's like, cab driver is like the shadows cab driver. Like, they're exactly the same character. They could exist in a shared universe.

>> Tim Sheridan: Yeah. The sort of sidekick trope with, Know, I hope people go back and read those books, find them, read them, and really get rooted in sort of the origins of all these characters. And then hopefully, they also appreciate that we're trying to sort of retell the story. Not reboot, but retell the story with more layers and a modern perspective and a modern lens. And certainly in Alan's case, seeing him through the lens that we see him through now, understanding that this was a man who was dealing with a complex, relationship with his sexuality at the time. which is only going to, I think, by the end of this series, you're going to see how complex it is, I think, by the end, we know the history of Alan Scott. We know the things, the choices he made and the things he did up until he finally came out of the closet in 2021 or whatever. and so there's a reason for that. And I, will just say this now, which is, if there's anything that I hope anybody who's in Alan's position, who's reading this book is reading it, if there's one thing I hope they take away, it's that it's okay to not have it all figured out. You'll get there.

>> Guido: I think that's such an important message, and it definitely comes through in his story, which I love.

>> Tim Sheridan: He certainly doesn't have it figured out. I think you could tell he's kind of a mess. He's a little bit of a mess, which is weird for a superhero. But this is an origin. It's early days, and we have to see him become the man he's going to be, the man who's going to shine a light for the whole world.

>> Guido: so, as you mentioned, it's not a reboot. it's unified under the current prime.

>> Tim Sheridan: Earth.

>> Guido: Earth prime that we're in. I am curious, before we start to wrap up our conversation, what is your history with multiverses? were you a fan of else worlds when you were growing up? Tell us more about that.

>> Tim Sheridan: It's funny, I think my first ever experience with the idea of a multiverse was Star Trek. Mirror, mirror. The mirror universe in Star Trek was fascinating. As a kid. I was like, what? There's this whole place where all these stories are happening, and I don't even know, the camera is not even pointed there. that's one of the great things about later Star Trek in the 90s, when they would, take you back to the mirror universe and you learn a little bit more. And then certainly in expanded universe books and things, we got to live in that a little bit. so that was, like, my first real introduction to it. And then because I didn't read Crisis on infinite earths until, oh, gosh, I was a teenager. which is funny, because my entire career is, I think, inspired by there should be on my tombstone, maybe it should say tim sheridan asterisk. And then based on a story by Marv Wolfman. I think Marv Wolfman has done more to formulate who I have become in my life than a lot of family members and other things that sort of raised me as a kid. but I didn't come to crisis until after I was already, I was like, oh, Marv did, know, check that. So my relationship to it is, I'm fascinated by those things. I do think the concept of the multiverse, I have notes about the very concept of m a multiverse. I do feel like while I understand that sometimes it's the only way. To let fans make sense out of divergent canons and different versions of the thing that you know and love, sometimes it's the only choice you have. But that doesn't mean it's not a little bit lazy. Multiverses are the quick and easy, quick and dirty solution. It's sort of the a wizard did it version of explaining different canons and different versions of canon. so anybody who comes in and tries to class up the joint in terms of a multiverse story, to really deepen it and add some layers to it and blow my mind with it, I'm into that. That's stuff I like. I'm crazy about Jeff Johns. I love everything that I think that he's done. I'm a fan. and so getting to meet him and work with him was the thrill of a lifetime. and becoming friends with him is the weirdest, but I'm crazy about him, which I didn't expect, by the way. I was like, this will be someone who I will just sort of still quietly worship, and sort of occasionally have interactions with. And it's like Jeremy Adams and I were at the Bob's big boy at a restaurant one day, and Jeff texted, and we're like, we're at Bob's big boy. He's like, I'm coming. And he came over. He's like, this is my uber place, just hanging out. anyway, so I love the stuff. And then you'll see a lot of what I'm doing with Alan Scott. Jeff has this way of taking these sometimes forgotten characters and heroes within this pantheon of characters and shining them up and classing up the joint, like I say, and giving you a new spin on them and making connections that you never made. And, because of his deep, deep love of the whole history of comics, especially in DC, it's one of the, I try to emulate favorite things ever. Yeah, me too. I love it because what it did was it took Crisis on infinite earths and it put a whole new spin on, know, whereas crisis on infinite earths was, you can see the functionality of it and how there was an assignment and know, and George knocked that out of the park, and everybody who worked on that book knocked it out of the park. but Jeff, I think, came along, and everybody who worked on infinite Crisis and know, let's. Let's see if we can add more dimensions to this idea and give it a little form and not just be functional and not that crisis on entrepreneurs is only functional. It's just I think that m adding some more layers to it was a smart move. And so I love stuff like, so in terms of multiverses, that's how I feel about them. I want to do the kind of stuff that people like Jeff Johns does if I'm working in a multiverse, to try to, make it a little bit more of a thinker. which, by the way, is how Flashpoint beyond started. Like, Jeremy Adams and I had this idea for a story, and, it ended up being not, what's not the story we ended up doing with Jeff. But Jeremy and I had this thing, and it kind of bumped up against the original flashpoint. And when we were told we could do it, we're like, well, we don't want to do it unless Jeff John says it's okay to do a thing that's kind of going to bump up against Flashpoint. And they're like, oh, yeah, well, we'll talk to Jeff. And then Jeff was like, this is great. Let's work on it together. And we're like, what? We never met know. We were like, this is, So. And then we just threw all that out, and we started. The three of us came, did a thing together. But the story that Jeremy and I were pitching, we may still do someday. who knows? Very, much, was like, let's take a multiversal concept and this idea of crises and things like that and put some new layers to it, put a new spin on it, and hopefully class up the joint. But you never know with us. You never know.

>> Guido: I hope we get to see that one day. Is there, else worlds or any alternate universe that's either a favorite of yours, or is there one that you wish you could tell or someone would tell?

>> Tim Sheridan: it's so funny having gotten to write in the flashpoint universe, because that would have been my number. So it's maybe just more stories in that world. It's one more thing. Well, definitely. I actually have some pitches, for some stories of that world, but I don't know that we're ever going back there. I have no idea. it's funny when I think about that, because that is so much in keeping with so much of my career where I feel like, oh, I've gotten to play with the toys that I played with as a kid, and I've wanted to play. I mean, Flashpoint came out when I was not a kid, but still when I was younger than now, and I love the thing. and now I've gotten to play with those toys, and, I hope I get to keep doing that. I hope I never lose the wonder of that. That's the thing. Once I do some Star Trek and doctor who, it's like, oh, well, I guess there's, I don't know what's next for me.

>> Rob: Time to get that Marv Wolfman gravestone ready, then.

>> Tim Sheridan: A life by Marv Wolfman.

>> Rob: Have you gotten to meet Marv? And you've become friends with Jeff. Have you gotten to meet Marv?

>> Tim Sheridan: Yes, I gotten to meet Marv Wolfman, which was another wild thing that happened. Marv and I were working on a project together that, unfortunately, because, of all the kind of turmoil, that's happened at warner brothers in Dc over the past few years in terms of Warner brothers got at t bought them, and then discovery, and things were changing. Things were shifting. Editors were leaving the company and coming know it was a whole thing. So, that project went away because the editor who was the champion of it left the company. but I got to hang out with Marv and work on a story together. Wow. Which is unreal to me. He's, the nicest man. I haven't seen him since I ran into him at, the shazam two premiere, and ruminated about what might have been had our story gone. maybe, or in some alternate universe.

>> Guido: That story is getting released. But let's hope.

>> Tim Sheridan: You and your multiverses, you just obsessed.

>> Guido: Well, they give me hope because that story will come out in another one.

>> Tim Sheridan: Do you think if there was another universe, that we could get to it in real life?

>> Guido: I have no idea. That's, like, what breaks my brain, so I have absolutely no idea.

>> Tim Sheridan: That's why you have to read about it. Exactly.

>> Guido: We've talked many times on here about those times when, in a lot of ways, what you're describing, Jeff Johns does, when an alternate universe is able to add to the story that you know, and it's able to bring something else in about that character or about, that dynamic, that story that you love, it adds to it, and that's really rich.

>> Tim Sheridan: Yeah. I don't think doomsday clock gets enough credit for that, which I think is just another great sort of version of Jeff playing with the toys the way I want them to see them played with. I'm so selfish, the way I experience these comics.

>> Guido: So, can you share, with our listeners what they should look out for from you next and how they should keep on top of your work?

>> Tim Sheridan: First of all, thank you. Alan Scott. issues one through four are out now. if you can find a copy. I know it's been challenging. There have been a lot of, everywhere I go, people are like, oh, they didn't have any more issues. They didn't have any more copies. Well, tell them to order more. ah, but issue five and six, we're going to wrap up the story. so those are coming out soon. And, masters of the universe revolution, five half hour episodes. Not five and a half hours, but five half hour episodes. It's about two and a half hours ish, I guess. or more, are out there, on Netflix, so please check those out if you haven't, because, so, so thrilled by the reaction that that show has gotten. We make that show with so much love and so much love for the characters and for the fandom and the fans that, I think revolution is. We're very proud of it, and I think people have really found something special in it, which is cool. Speaking, of revolution, you can preorder now the masters universe revolution prequel comic book from Dark Horse, with a story by producers from the show, Ted Biaselli and Rob David and me, and scripted by me, and with art by the amazing Daniel HDR. And so that'll be out May 15. Issue one will be out May 15. So please tell your shops, if you like revolution, if you like masters of the universe, tell, them you want a copy.

>> Guido: Yes, we have that preordered and every variant cover of that, and Alan Scott.

>> Tim Sheridan: Embarrassment as we can. What an embarrassment of riches. There's a weird way to end that. I took a pause in the middle. What an embarrassment. What an embarrassment of riches it is on the covers on Alan Scott. And, not only the a covers by David Talaski, which every single one is better than the last one, as if that's possible. But the variant covers are unreal. the artists are incredible, and, our editor, Andrew Moreno, he just knew exactly what to go for and what would, I think, make this book really stand out on shelves. And, I'm very grateful for that. How are we going to do the trade? What's going to be on the COVID will it be issue one? I don't know.

>> Guido: More importantly, I hope it's a hardcover. I won't hold out too much hope because they're few and far between, but.

>> Tim Sheridan: It deserves a hardcover. That's funny that you say they made hardcovers of Titans Academy volume one and two. And I was like, why? I'm like, I want to read the paperback. I think people like to have it on their shelf and that's why they like the hardcover. but I'm like, no, I want to read it. And the paperback is easier to read for me. but I have no idea. We'll see what they're doing. I think that'll be later this year, assuming that people still keep buying issues five and six in which they're like, well, I guess we're not going to make a trade. Maybe they'll time it with pride season.

>> Guido: Good release for pride season.

>> Tim Sheridan: Yeah, that would be fast, though, I think for them. I don't know. I'm hoping it'll at least be out by national, coming out day.

>> Guido: Yeah, there you go. And New York comic Con, those are.

>> Tim Sheridan: Usually together in October. Yeah, that'd be great.

>> Guido: We'll get you to sign it there. Well, thank you for your time, Tim. Everyone, please go pre order those books and pick up the back issues.

>> Tim Sheridan: Thank you so much. This has been really fun.

>> Rob: Wow, what a great conversation. And like you said in our intro, Guido, I can't wait to talk to Tim more.

>> Guido: Yes, I'm sure it's going to happen. It's inevitable. And for now, make sure you do those pre orders. You track down Tim's work, you check out those comics. You watch masters of the universe. You pre order that comic, which is coming out in the spring, written by him. And in the meantime, that is a wrap. Dear Watchers, thank you for listening.

>> Rob: I have been Guido and I have been Rob.

>> Guido: You can follow us on all social media at Dear Watchers, particularly Instagram and threads where we're most active.

>> Rob: Yes, and leave us a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.

>> Guido: In the meantime, in the words of Uatu, keep pondering the possibilities.