Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

Welcome back to Dear Watchers, an

omniversal comic book podcast where we do

a deep dive into the multiverse.

We are traveling with you through the stories and the worlds that make up

the omniverse of fictional realities we all love.

And your watchers on this journey are

me. Oh, I didn't get a good

one. but I'll just be tomb raiding.

Ah. and I'm Rob. And in the week we took off from our

podcast, you might notice, Guido, I've grown

an amazing long braid.

My video.

Yeah, it's not a video.

I was worried where that was going, considering the attributes

of our featured, protagonist today and

what she's most famous for. So glad you landed

with braid.

Yes, of course. And now,

before we begin today's trip through the

jungle of video games,

jungles 90 sness

Underwater M everywhere.

What's new with us, Guido, in our little section of the

multiverse?

well, I'm a little under the weather, so we'll see if

I still have low energy. I'm generally the

low energy one anyway. So maybe, in fact, me being

a little under the weather will propel me past

you today.

Well, we can say why we're under the weather because we got

our new COVID boosters, because we're

also prepping for New York Comic

Con.

Yes, it's very soon. So if you're going to be there, tell

us, because we'll be there every day, Thursday through

Sunday. And we're very excited. We'll be recording

our bonus episodes as we do every year. I've

been posting on social media. I already ordered some commissions from

just Legendary people. what I'm doing is trying to

distribute the huge expense of New York Comic Con a

little bit into September. So that's what I'm doing. And

it's going well, though. I will regret it

all in November, believe me.

And I love that it's in October. And it's going to even fall

over October 13, friday,

October 13, because there's a lots of great horror

stuff. John Carpenter is going to be there. Eli

Roth is going to be unveiling the long

awaited Thanksgiving, which I'd be curious to

maybe check out there's. Chucky going to be there. So much great

horror stuff.

Yes. And it is the fall. And that means that

we're late with our one last giveaway. That's because

we took, a little break last week. We were

getting things in order, getting ready, and we've

been weekly for two and a half years, so

we deserve it. We earned it. But thank you for bearing

with us. Thank you for checking out our back catalog

while you have these delays. We

might have more delays coming up, but we also have great stuff going

in October. We'll have an interview with someone very

exciting, and we again have that giveaway,

which might be as soon as today, but you'll have to keep listening to

find out.

And if you are joining us for the first time after

checking out our back catalog. Of course, we

have three parts of our journey through the multiverse

today origins of the story, exploring

multiversity, and pondering possibilities. So thank

you for joining us on today's swing through the jungle.

And remember, you can always find us. To support us and see

what we're doing over on our coffee page, visit

dearwatchers.com and click join. For

as little as a dollar a month, you can support what we do and we

appreciate you.

And with that, Dear Watchers, welcome to episode

115. Let's check out what's happening

in the Omniverse with our travels to today's

alternate universe.

Today, we lock the puzzle pieces into place

and do an impossible backflip out of the

golden tomb to find out the answer to

the question, what if Tomb Raider Laura

Croft made her comic book debut in New

York City alongside

Witchblade?

It's a weird one. And today we're talking

about a, video game multiverse. We've done this

a few times before and we're sure to do it

again. But other than the Super Mario,

which was much more about the movie and the Hollywood M

multiverse, this is, I think one of the first times that we're really

focused in on a property that started

as a video game because we are considering

the Tomb Raider game series to be our prime Earth

canon here. Which series? Well, the original, of

course. And we're looking at the multiverse

of her sort of first comic book debut

and definite first ongoing title. That'll all

make sense as we give you more history. We're going to call this Earth

Top Cow Lara. Or

the Earth of Many Breasts. And

before we get too deep down

this, underwater cavern, rob, tell

us who and what Tomb Raider is, and then I'll talk

a little bit about her history in comics.

Well, development began in 1994

by Core Design as a video game that came out

in 1996 for PC, PlayStation,

and of course, the platform we all love,

sega, Saturn. The British company

oversaw the first six games

of the series. Though depending on how you count

and including all retcons and reboots, there are

about 20 games on pretty much every

platform.

It's wild. That's wild. I'm curious. Obviously,

like, Mario has more, but I'd say that's probably in

the top few of game franchises, and

especially for a.

Female character way more than Samus and

Metroid and other characters. And

Laura, speaking of our female protagonist, she

was a technological marvel

built on its own game engine and a

cultural phenomenon, even including

three movies, an animated series every fan

needs to track down a, soundtracks, tie in

novels, and even a tie in book

about her presence in popular culture. From

1998 by Douglas

Copeland, writer, artist, and thinker

who brought the term Generation X to

popularity.

Yeah, it's cool. He's an

icon for people like my age and older.

He just was. Again, the person who started

using Generation x as a term. And the

fact that he loved Lara enough to write this book.

And the book had a short story with

illustrations in it, though it wasn't a comic. So we're not going to talk about it

today.

Comic adjacent. Well, there are also

art books, cookbooks. I mean, really

cookbooks. Well, she's in the jungle. She's eating monkey

brains and who knows what.

We can't let go of every sexist trope here in that game.

Believe me.

That's true. She doesn't eat a lot. Looking at

her figure, though, I don't think.

True.

There are, of course, toys, merchandise of all kinds.

And the sadly rare but awesome

history book Tomb Raider 20 by

Megan Marie, which is out of print. And

we got signed by journalist, writer and

cosplayer megan at New York Comic Con.

Speaking of New York Comic Con a.

Few years ago when that came out. So, I

mean, Tomb Raider is everywhere. Everyone,

I think, probably knows who she is, even if

you didn't know that backstory. But

her comic backstory is a little bit more

convoluted in

1995. So

interestingly, this is before the

game is out. There are,

four two page backup comic strips of Lara.

Now, the magazine issues might have come out parallel to the game,

but I couldn't tell because they are impossible to

find. You can read the pages on the

Internet, but the magazine is just impossible to track

down, probably because not a lot of

people were keeping magazines in the

90s in I guess UK video game magazines.

Probably didn't realize this was the comic book debut of Lara. So of

course, everyone gobbles them up now as the actual comic

debut.

Yeah. This magazine did not hold a candle

to Nintendo Power in probably

popularity.

Well, it was UK's number one video game

magazine. And they rebranded it as Sega. Mean

Machines after General.

Because it's Sega. It has to be mean.

And it was. Actually, though, what's cool is those eight

pages were written by the games writer Vicky

Arnold and drawn by Paul Pert Smith. And it's

issues 47 to 50. So very cool

to check those out. But we're not going to really spend a lot of time on them.

No, we read them for this. And it feels like

Vicky's, dialogue got

translated into French and then into Japanese and

then back into English. That's how they kind of

read.

I don't know what the deal with it is, but anyway,

main event for

Lara's comics is two years later, she debuts

in Top Cow Books, which we're going to

get into in a moment. That's 1997.

Then two years after that debut, there's a lot of

gaps in time for Lara. 1999, we get

an ongoing and a ton of miniseries from top cow

totaling nearly 80 comics until

2005.

Gosh, top Cow really, milked that character for

all it's worth, right?

Yeah. That joke with Lara on the table.

Is, hey, no, I'm talking about the comic book

company. Come on.

I know.

Get your mind out of the got.

Memories everywhere in this episode.

One quick note. In 1999, there was a French publisher who

gets the license to do one issue called Tomb Raider Dark eons.

But finally, in 2014, Dark Horse has the

license for the Rebooted games universe. They published

miniseries in ongoing by legends like Gal Simone and Marico

Tamaki for a few years, getting to about 50

issues before wrapping up Lara's time in

comics in 2018. So that

is the backstory for Alara. But

what Rob was your backstory

with.

Miss Croft, so my

backstory is that like you said,

Guido, I exactly know who Lara Croft

is. I kind of know her backstory, her origin

story. But I never have played a

tomb Raider video game. I think you and I played

well.

We played the Dungeon Crawler, Guardians of Light,

co op, but I never played.

One growing up because I was a Nintendo boy, so I did

not really play PC games. I didn't play Sega,

PlayStation games. And she wasn't on Nintendo, so I never

really played her there. I knew the movies when

they came out, but I think they kind of fell in a weird

time, probably in my movie watching, so I didn't really

go to them. So I know that image of her. I kind

of know the basic

setup. But, yeah, I was never a Tomb

Raider person, but I know that is not the

case with you.

Well and I made you watch the movie, and for

this, I made you watch a History of the

Video Game Universe, so you'd get a sense, a little bit

of what her deal is.

And I never liked a lot of those kind of

puzzley games. I kind of liked my

Mario, which I guess is puzzle, but I liked that. Or

I liked my shooting games, and I didn't really mix the two

as much, I guess. But

yeah. Guido, what was your background? Because I know you are

a huge Lara Croft tomb raider fan.

I am, I think probably it's my second

favorite game series. I don't know. My top three game series

are BioShock resident, Evil and Tomb Raider. And tomb

raider. I have played, since the first one debuted.

I was 15 years old. I remember it well.

All of the marketing leading into it. I had a PlayStation

One I played it on. That what was really fun

in my memory. And we'll bring her down

memory lane because she listens to us every week. My

mother used to and I was

1516. Like, I'm a teenager here, but my

mother used to help me play Tomb Raider.

So what would happen, especially in like, two,

three, four, which are notorious for getting a little

hard, in part because development was rushed.

I would buy the strategy guides, and my mother

would sit in the same room I was playing.

And she would give me the tips if

I needed them as I was playing. So that is a

very fond memory for me. I have played

every single Tomb Raider game that has ever

come out. Generally, I played it when

it came out, and I

loved Angelina Jolie. So I loved the

original movies. I have not seen the Alicia

Vickinder movie you and I didn't go see it. It

then got such mixed reviews that I didn't bother. And once

it was sort of canceled as a franchise, I never went

to revisit it. I love the

character, but most of all, the games are

fantastic. The gameplay is so good. The

puzzle solving mixed with the action, I actually think

you'd really love it because

it balances out.

You don't tend to like games that require a lot of speed,

and these games don't always there are some

when a trex is chasing you, you have to be fast.

But generally it's a little bit of a logic

puzzle. But also with some action and

the world that they built and the fantasy

Sci-Fi kind of, but mixed with

tons of mythology is just

so strong. I can't wait to

talk about these versions. And I definitely can't wait to talk about

the future of this franchise because I love it.

Well, let's unlock the key to the

ancient temple and go all the way back

to our origins of the story.

Right now on this very show, you're going to

get the answer to all your questions.

Our amazing story begins a few

years ago,

and today we are discussing Tomb Raider

video games, all of them, but especially

the original three. And the first one is

Tomb Raider, out in October

20 496.

It's developed by Core Design, published by Eidos

Interactive, programmed by Paul Douglas. The

artist is Toby Gard, written by Vicky

Arnold. Great score. Composed by

Nathan McCree. And so

what do you think about this world? You have such little

exposure to it, but even like watching that history video

and the bit, you like, what is your sense of this world?

What do you like about it, or what are you unsure about

it?

What I like about it that I didn't really know

about this aspect of Tomb Raider because I think I was just more

familiar with the movie is some of the more

fantastical elements. Like you just mentioned Superman getting

chased by a trex. So I didn't really know

that was there. I thought it was more puzzle solving and

shoot them up. And I was actually surprised, listening, especially

for this first game. And I think this went

away as the series went on. But you weren't really

shooting human characters. You were shooting

like, creatures and monsters and a lot of

animals. And I was just thinking, I've been going

back playing on our switch and on

our, steam deck and stuff like that. One of my

favorite games of all time. Another female character. Led.

Game perfect. Dark. I played that game.

What year is that?

oh, gosh, I don't know. Probably the early

2000s or 99.

So it definitely is probably inspired by

Lara.

Yeah. It's like, basically, I think, like Laura Croft

in GoldenEye, basically. And there's aliens

and stuff. But playing it now as an adult, I still

love the game. It's so much fun. But you're, like, shooting a lot of human

beings and they're like, oh, my God, help me. And they're like,

slowly dying. And now as an adult, it's like,

OOH, I don't know. That kind of rubs me a little wrong

way.

An adult living in a country that has exactly.

Regular mass shootings.

Yeah. And it's not like you're playing, like, the Friday the 13th game

where it's, like, completely ridiculous.

Right.

And it's horror world and shooting people. So

I kind of love the idea that these original games were

set more especially the first game were set more in

this fantasy world of

mystical creatures and that kind of thing.

Yeah. It's probably part why I liked it,

because I, too, have never been into

I mean, I've played with friends just because there are so

few couch co op games, so I've played some of those

types of shoot them up games,

but on more next gen

consoles. But this always

held a place. And I wonder how much of it was that

element of it without me even realizing it.

I also think you have been telling me about Perfect

Dark since you've been replaying it a lot. I did not play it for whatever

reason. And I guess in 2000, I was in college

and I just wasn't playing too much. But

this game, in spite

of the way her design

has been sort of turned into a thing on its own,

this game is remarkably feminist. And

it doesn't, I don't think, try. I think what's

cool is, as you saw in the

like, when you get her backstory, you start to get

a little bit of a more overt

explicit like, lara was

not someone who her father

thought could do this. Right. She was a girl in a

very upper crust British family. But at the

very beginning, the first few games, because there is not

too much backstory in there, she just is awesome.

And it doesn't mean

anything. She's just awesome. I mean yeah.

Is she scantily clad from the beginning?

I guess she is. She gets in her wetsuit every time

she needs to swim, and she's in her tank

top. But the

narrative aspect of it and certainly the action

aspect of it, I think is remarkably

feminist. And that always resonated with me and

I suspect with my mother.

And not to say, well, okay, they did it with

men, too, but I mean, I am thinking there was a

few male characters like Simon in

Castlevania. They were there that were pretty

scantily clad as well at the

time. Especially like on the box art. So I mean, I know

it's not like apples to apples, but there was

just a history of these sex cells, even if

it's to kids in video games.

Well, and unlike comic books where you have just

countless examples of females and

they all have to be wearing skin tight clothes,

there were so few

female protagonists in video games. You really

only had Seamus in Metroid and she was

dressed as a robot. So there really

were not female protagonists that

led video game franchises. So you just

really didn't have too much to compare her

to. So m yeah, she might be more comparable to the

men around her.

And what were some of the other things that

you liked about? Because you like these kind of

puzzle games and watching that video kind of the

history, I don't know if I realized that was such a

big part of it. It almost reminded me of a show

that I grew up with, with Legends of the Hidden Temple,

where you're oh, got to solve the Silver Monkey

and certain things and unlock stuff.

And maybe that was very much like.

That was even influenced a bit by these video games, or vice

versa, even. So, yeah. Was that something that you

really enjoyed about it? That kind of puzzle aspect?

For sure. That's an aspect I loved. But

anyone who knows video games can tell that my top

three franchises are really heavy

on the story. I like linear story

games. And this gave you

that each entry

installment in the franchise deepened the

mythology. And even as it starts to contradict itself

or does things that are stupid and have been

retconned, or now obviously it's been totally rebooted,

it still just gives you this really

interesting universe as we talk about on our show

all the time. World building is what

draws you and me both into

multiversal stories. And the world building in

Tomb Raider is so fun.

Again, it's not super intricate, but

it's just really fun. And as

the mythology starts to come in, like

Greek mythology, like explicit mythology starts to

come in as Aztec and Mayan cultures. And I'm sure

there's all sorts of cultural simplification, if not

exploitation going on there's obviously

the colonist narrative here,

but there are times it subverts it too. There are times

she's returning treasures, there's times she's sort of

fighting the colonist British

folks, I think, to a certain extent.

So it's a world

I can get into and that's really fun.

Yeah, I think we'll get into this now in our next

segment. The 90s isms of all of it. But

watching that about the games, I know another thing that you really

love is the TV show Alias, which was

another kick ass woman who is kind

of solving these puzzles. And there's a lot of

ancient history and mythology

involved there. And there was just something I think

we'll get into it more now in our next segment, but there was just

something about that time where we were

like, let's really explore that. So I can see

how Tomb Raider is a part of this

larger mosaic that was just

happening in the early

2000s.

Yeah, and I think for a long time they did it

with obviously with men.

But it's funny. Like, James Bond doesn't do it. The big,

huge franchises don't do it. But I'm thinking

about things like big Trouble in Little

China or Romancing the Stone, or, of course,

Indiana. Jones? You have a few movies and

franchises where they try to fuse

mythology with a realistic

contemporary action movie. And this

does that. And I love it. And you're right, Alias does it,

too.

Well, let us just uncover

the super secret

crystal that is exploring

multiversity.

I am your guide through these vast new

realities. Follow

me and ponder the

question,

what if?

And today we are asking the most 90s

question of all. What if Tomb Raider Laura

Croft made her comic book debut in New York

City alongside

Witchblade?

And that is Tomb Raider

witchblade number one from Top Cow comics from

December 1998. And the story is called

Vendetta.

Well, actually, we read the revisited

version from, December 1998,

so the original version was published

in 1997, but we

fell victim to the fact that I could

not find the original because, like a lot of

licensed books, of course, they're

hard to find. So the original is from December

1997, but I could only find

a not totally kosher download of the quote

unquote, which is just like a refreshed

re, inked recolored version. Anyway.

This book has story and

pencils by Michael Turner, with some pencil assisting

from Brian Ching inks by Joe Weems, with

some inking assisting from Marco Golly and

Victor Lamas. Colors by Jonathan D. Smith letters

by Robin Spijar and Dennis Heisler. The

editor is Brad Foxhoven.

So for those not familiar with

Blade, join the club. Neither of us are

familiar. We know she exists, but

that is about the extent of our knowledge

of Witchblade. Now, of course,

Witchblade is created by Michael

Turner, and so he is

writing this. And for whatever reason,

through his Top Cow at image imprint,

was able to get the license to

Lara Croft. And for whatever reason and we

can talk about our thoughts on this, they decide to

debut Lara in comics with

Sarah Pazini, the character of

Witchblade, who herself debuted in 1995. So, just

a few years prior to this.

And the other co creator of Witchblade is a,

comic legend, Mark Sylvester, who was

also very busy in the 90s with

alternative characters.

But the alternative characters who always like to be

scantily clad,

this pairing almost felt like

that was what they thought made sense

here. Yeah, they were like, oh, wait, these are

two scantily clad, busty action hero women.

Let's make an issue with, them.

Yeah, just an off the cuff summary.

So basically it's New York City

and there is a big giant bat

demon devil creature that's stampeding

through an apartment building. Laura Croft is chasing

it. Then Sarah the witchblade

comes in and basically says to

Laura, what's going on here? Laura tells her the

story that Laura was contracted by

this basically crime boss to get

this ancient gem to take

revenge on another crime family that killed all of

his family.

Which is a typical tomb, raider narrative, by the way.

Exactly. And he set this demon out even though

the family that he's killing now are like the great grandsons.

So they didn't have anything to do with the death of his family. This guy

is like in his 90s or 100 years old. So Sarah

and Laura team up, they confront the big

demon, which they discover is of course probably not

really a big twist here the actual crime boss himself.

And you think like, they stop him. But in the end, the

crime boss is still alive and is up to no

good.

And just real quick, fast forward, we did not

read it for this episode, but they did a sequel, one

shot called Witchblade Tomb Raider,

which comes out few ah, years

later. There's then a wizard little

ashcan that comes out. So prior to

Lara getting her own ongoing, there's all this

activity with her and Witchblade. So what do you think

of the pairing here?

I was joking that it's like the most 90s thing, but

just reading this, it is just so ninety

s. And the thing that it really reminded

me so there's a little in joke about the X

Files in here.

So you've got some X people watching an episode.

Exactly. And of course, here the mix matched,

although they're really not that mixed matched, couple

that are hunting down mystical

things. And the other thing that this super reminded me of, and I'm

wondering if this reminded you of it as well, was angel.

I was just getting heavy duty angel vibes because the

New York City and there's mystical creatures and everyone's

wearing trench coats and it's all taking place

at night. So did you get any of those vibes from

it?

I didn't, though I can see it.

Ah.

Again, not knowing anything on Witchblade, the fact that she is a

homicide detective who I guess has this, I don't know,

watch that turns her into Witchblade. I don't know anything about

that. But yeah, I could see that

how it connects to stuff like angel

and.

Witchblade was also a show on TNT

around also in the early

2000s too. So yeah, it was

a lot of TV at the time, kind of exploring these things, as

we mentioned.

Yeah.

All right, I don't know where to begin. Let's begin with

the story and the character and then I want to get into the

art a little. The story and the character.

I think they capture Lara well enough.

Here you have that she's a little

sarcastic, she's confident,

she's bound up in this mythology.

She wants to do good, but she's, like,

willing to be an anti hero sort of

vigilante in order to

accomplish whatever her good mission of

goodness is. And so I think all of that

is well constructed.

And for someone who, doesn't know anything about Sarah and

Witchblade, it does make a little

sense as a pair up. To me, it's weird that it's her

debut, for sure. It's very strange,

but it makes sense to me. You do have these two

sort of fantastical, but grounded in

narratives for Sarah, I suspect, based on the

opening page, that it's really grounded in a X

Files like case Files

procedural genre, and Lara is more like

the Indiana Jones genre. But

I do see why they connect. I think it's just strange to

me that you're putting her in this other property.

Yeah. And Sarah wants to bring the criminals to

justice and let the system sort

it out. And Lara is just like, I'm going to kill

them. I don't want to kill them, but I'm going

to do that. So that's kind of the push and pull, because the characters

are very similar in many ways, but they have

that Sarah has that,

moralness, while Laura is definitely much more in the

moral ambiguity area.

Yes. Willing to do whatever it takes, for

sure. Now, I wonder if this is

possibly one of the first Michael Turner books you've

read. I mean, Michael Turner was

totally ninety s to the

extreme. Like, could have been up there with

Rob Leafield. Michael, Turner has passed away,

but everything he did has this look.

And it was a very typical look for every

book that he created, including both

the shape of women's bodies and

the skin exposure, as well as the awesome

pencils. So did you agree with that?

What do you think of his art?

Yeah, I love the bat demon.

I love the ancient, the old

mobster who's like 100 years old. You see every

kind of wrinkle, and there's all this pencil work

there, so that's really cool. And New York City,

you really get a sense of kind of it's that dark. It's. Ninety

S, New York, right? So it's like seven. Like the David Fincher,

everything's raining and dark.

So there's that. And then there's how

the women characters, especially Laura,

sarah kind of gets away being a little bit

more realistic, but Laura is

just crazy proportions.

Yeah. And he might be working off of

the video game likeness, but he

always takes these things to extremes. Again, that's what

he's known for. And there's even

some pretty, again, gorgeously

executed but ridiculous pages. Like

when Sarah and Lara

first team up as Witchblade tomb

raider. You just have Lara in her. Wetsuit

Lounging in a chair, which is kind of fun because she's

cocky as hell, which is great. But it is this

ridiculous panel know, she's got

these short shorts on, her legs are up on the chair,

large breasted, like just a ridiculous

panel that's clearly meant to be like a poster

someone would hang up in their room. Who wants

cheesecake?

Yes. You could totally see a young teenage

boy or girl

cutting pages out of this comic and putting it

up on their wall.

I mean, I had Lara on my wall, but not because of how she

looked.

Yeah, so it's fun.

I mean, do you want more? Do you want to read the

sequel.

Of it like the

last pages where it kind of continued the story. I

was like, oh, I'm kind of intrigued where this is going and I

think it helps if us like you grew up in

the watched that Arnold Schwarzenegger movie End

of Days a few weeks ago and it's got like

that the Matrix, The Crow,

all of those kind of things. So if you

grew up with that

yeah, exactly. angstiness and

black leather and all that kind of thing. So yeah,

I think it has that nostalgia factor for me.

But wouldn't it be high on my list? But I

wouldn't also say no if we wanted to keep

reading. How about you? Do you want to continue to

explore this story?

No, only because I just don't care

about

I have actually for being such a Tomb Raider

fan, I have not read the entire Top Cow

Runner for ongoing I would be more inclined

to read that. I am hesitant

because of the art. Even when Turner

leaves, he just gets replaced with people who draw

Lara in the same way Adam Hughes does a bunch of

really famous covers for it that are pretty ridiculous,

that are just at this point,

close to the realm of Playboy.

And I don't love

that when it's a comic disguised as that.

More power to comics that are setting out to do that. But I

don't like an action comic that's disguising itself

in that. So I would read more of

the top cow run. I haven't again, it's hard to find it's

out of print. Even when it's been collected, those quickly fall out

of print. So I have a few issues I'll eventually read

more, but at this point, since they have

rebooted the mythology, it also doesn't feel like it's

adding to the canon of the character that.

So they I was know I mentioned

angel at the top, but what about a Tomb

Raider witchblade Dark Angel

connection? The Jessica Alba TV show?

Someone I'm sure proposed that. I have no doubt that

someone proposed that at some point. And I have to say I love

that TV show. Dark angel

was a really fun show with, again, a

great mythology, which is what I loved about it.

they could bring in alias. There was that show,

mantis, I think it was called. There was all those

shows that would be like a cool

amalgam universe multiverse there. We're just

going to throw in all those 90.

Well, I'll tell you, the crossover that I think should have happened

is Lara Xena.

Oh my gosh.

That's where you get the

kick ass, strong female character feminists. And the

mythology going to Cover is the one

that we're missing.

Does Zena get brought into current time or

does Lara get pushed back into the past?

What's better do either because in the Tomb Raider video

games, lara often finds herself in these

weird, savage, Land esque pocket

universes. And similarly, Xena has some of the

just greatest episodes where she or

her being get pulled into like a modern

day Lucy Lawless. and so I think you could actually do it in

either direction. And it works quite well.

And Gabrielle would hit on Laura. Of

course.

She'd be like a love triangle.

A love triangle. You'd have totally a Bruce

Campbell character that is trying to also hit on Laura. And she

just like, punches him in the face. Like, oh,

man, I could totally see it.

I know we just need the license to end up in the same

place. But, that hasn't happened yet. But

fingers crossed because I don't know where the Tomb Raider license

lives since Dark Horse stopped publishing.

I'm sure right now the IP holder is waiting for

the reboots, which we're going to be talking about in just a

moment.

Okay, well, I'm powering up the

witchblade question mark.

How do you do that? Go ahead, explain it to our

listeners.

Well, it's too

complicated. It's way too complicated for them. I don't have enough time

to do it to explain it. But it's going to

launch us into pondering

possibilities togido what are we talking about for our

pondering possibilities?

Well, again, Tomb

Raider has movies and reboots of movies. It

has games and reboots of games. It has comics and reboots

of comics. So it is just a world

of reboots. And yet we currently live in

a world with no Tomb

Raider content. So I, wanted us to

just talk a little bit about what we want to see from

the franchise, what we think the potential is. And maybe on a

future episode, we'll get into some of the Dark Horse versions of

the character, the modern games versions

of Lara and all of that stuff. Because

as far as all these reboots are concerned, there was to

be a second Alicia Vickinder movie

from Folkar meg Two director Ben Wheatley.

But it was canceled. And it was not that long

ago because I remember Alicia Vickinder talking about it as of

like two years ago, saying she really wanted it to

happen. Rights, revert. We're assuming there

are remastered one through three,

the kind of golden top of

the games that are coming out next year, which is

really exciting. They've done little remastered

versions. They've done different iterations that try

to repackage the original games. This is the first

proper remaster ground up. Like the Resident

Evils have had like a lot of classic games at this point have had for next

gen consoles. Those are going to be out in February and

I cannot wait. You can't do better than the

original. And then, of course, really cool.

Phoebe Waller Bridge was announced as developing

a series live action for

Amazon Prime Video. Who knows if we'll ever

see it, but that is a great character for

it.

And it makes sense because she just did the new

Indiana Jones movie, which we didn't see, but she co wrote

that and she also co wrote the last James Bond

movie. So m I don't know if she co wrote the Indiana Jones

movie, but yeah, she's in those worlds right now

of Indiana Jones, James Bond. And I could

totally see her also playing

maybe the woman in the chair.

Character in Tomb Raider got the right

voice in terms of not her actual voice, but the way

she writes. She's got the right level of humor where

the humor is really sardonic

and dry, but doesn't take away from the

meaning of whatever she's created. And I think that's exactly what

Lara needs.

And the Britishness, because it's interesting

because you had Angelina Jolie, who's American, of course, and

Alicia Vickander who's Swedish, but you haven't had

an actual Brit play

Laura Croft, which is like they've always had a Brit

play James Bond. And it's even when they're doing the recasting now,

it's like, well, it has to be someone who's British. So I would love to

see a British person actually take on this character. And

I think having a British person like Phoebe Waller

Bridge write it would.

Be Claire Boy in there.

That's going to be I can totally see that.

Yeah. And it's funny, I was looking into the past film, so

I think he must be the rights holder. I don't know if he

still is, but all the previous Tomb Raider films were

produced by Lawrence Gordon. He's still around. He's in his

eighty s. And he is like one of those names

that's been behind all these comic book adaptations, even though

you don't know his name. So he produced the Hellboy

movies. Watchmen the Zack Snyder. Watchmen

Mystery Men and the Rocketeer. He's

also produced all of the Predator movies which were not

based on comics, but have a comic or

have become comics. So it's just interesting that you've

got this mastermind too of

comic to film

adaptations.

Yeah. Wait, did you say the Rocketeer is.

Not based on the Rocketeers? Yeah. That's based on a comic, too.

Yeah, no, I was saying the Predator isn't but it's

also in the comic in comics world.

Too. There's been a lot of people who've gotten involved

in tomb Raider projects. And I am

curious why. I guess at this point we

might be waiting for the next reboot. I don't

know why the Alicia Vickinder movie failed, having not seen

it. But I guess let's just jump to what we

want to see. We want to see Phoebe

Waller Bridges version starring Claire Foy. But

what do you want from it being more of a

newbie to Lara as a character and

her backstory?

I would hope that they would kind of do what I think

other people have been smartly doing, which is go back to

the original origins of it and really

maybe take the original game as a jumping

off point and explore some of

the mysticalness aspect, which is

something Indiana Jones has also always done. I mean, they

do have the arc that melts people's faces

and priests that rip your hearts out and stuff like that.

They're not necessarily in the realm of our, reality. Like,

save that for James Bond when James Bond has

always gone into laser world. It's like, that's not

James Bond. But have Tomb Raider

have Laura Croft kind of go into that

mystical realm? I think that would be something really

interesting. Yeah.

And I think that's what the Angelina Jolie's movie do really

well, in part because it's that era of 90s

movies or maybe they're even, like 2000.

It could be they are.

But that era of movies where, like, you didn't

need gritty realism and, everyone

was comfortable with

surrealism or the supernatural or fantasy mixed in

with a movie that's supposed to be grounded in our reality. So

I think those movies do it well. And I would

definitely want to see that come back because I think

what the modern franchise

for their extraordinary games. But I think that

they are just a little too gritty and realistic for

me, especially the first two, where

they are a younger Lara and you're sort of playing

her origin story. You have a bow and arrow for

most

of they're again, they're really great games, but

they don't give you the feeling of the

world that the original games do,

which requires the mythology, requires some of

the snarkiness. The fact that she is this

fully developed character when you meet her,

and I would want that from a series. I don't

want Lara's origin. I'm fine with flashbacks.

In fact, it could be really cool to see, especially a

younger actor do Lara at

finishing school, at boarding school. Totally flashbacks,

yes. But I want her

to be Tomb Raider when we meet

her.

It's interesting, it seems, when we were watching the video, kind

of going through the history of Tomb Raider, too, and just talking about

the comics, half of her is always,

like, set in stone, like the look and some of the feel

there. But she's also been, it seems very influenced by

the time that she's been in where

those comics were very dark ninety s, all that stuff

that was

happening. Angelina Jolie has that kind of lightness of those, like

the pre MCU Marvel movies that are at the same

time as well. And then we watched in that video when she

has the bow and arrow a lot because

The Hunger Games had become really big. So they were like,

okay, let's play that up. And then Alicia Vickander was deadly

serious. Yeah, then deadly serious, which we got. So

she's very much like, people are putting on whatever

is the popular elements

of the time of media on top of

this character. So I don't know what that will be when

we kind of reach now. I feel like we're almost at a

very interesting crossroads in terms

of those themes, maybe because there's just so much stuff

right now in different streaming and there are different

ways to approach these kind of things.

Well, and she's

definitely, I would say probably

even m ten years ago was when the games

were rebooted. The Alicia Vickinder movie, I guess, was I don't know,

was it six years ago? that's still a

long time. I mean, we're approaching her

30th anniversary, so she is

at this point, like, you have

that sweet spot of culture

where you'll have lots of nostalgia, people, a, sort

of built in audience. But she's

famous enough that you can probably pretty easily

rebuild her brand amongst people who were not even

around or playing the games in the 90s. So I

feel like we're finally at a sweet spot where we don't

need to explain who she is and we can

just build on different versions and

aspects of her that everyone recognizes and HM, have a

little fun with it.

Yeah. And we talked about this when we did our Super

Mario movie episode, talking about that, but forever,

people were like, you can't really make a Super Mario movie that's like the

video game. And they didn't when they made the Bob Hoskins

movie, but then when they made the animated movie, they were just like, no, he's going

to eat a mushroom and turn big. Like, we're just going to make it just

like the video game. And people loved it.

And maybe that helped kind of usher in this, because

we've never seen Legends of Zelda, we've

never seen Metroid, like all these

other iconic franchises with big

female characters, too, that have never even been on

screen. Maybe because people are like,

it has to be realistic. So maybe this has kind of

helped break down that wall and that will extend to Tomb

Raider too.

Yeah, it is funny because people I'm sure there are plenty

of think pieces out there, most of which I would

find annoying. So I'm sure there's smarter

people who think about why video game

adaptations tend to fail and why there aren't

any really remarkably strong ones, perhaps

even until Super Mario this year. Unless I'm forgetting

something, because simultaneously, we know video

games are bigger than Hollywood. The video game industry

is often not talked about, that they actually make more

money than Hollywood does. So

it's really remarkable to think

that we haven't seen a Resident

Evil translate. Granted, the

Miya Djovovich series, which I love, made

tons of money, but it did

not translate the video game into a

different medium. Nor do I think the Netflix series

did. That was canceled after one season and we didn't even

watch. So there hasn't really

been anything that has somehow

fused the two worlds, translated a mega

game into a mega media

IP franchise, and Tomb Raider

could be it. I

agree. I'm rooting for you. Well, maybe, she might

not be on strike because she's in the UK, so I hope she's working

on it.

That's true, she's not. So maybe she's working on

it right now, but while she's working on

that, we will say that is a

wrap. but wait. I'm just looking out the window,

and the leaves, they're turning colors.

I see a man in a white William Shatner

mask standing in our yard, staring at

you.

Should have gone ghostface, I think.

Only it was Halloween.

Who told me? I now know it's Michael

Myers, but I don't think people know the Michael Myers mask

is William Shatner. But there you go.

Bonus. There you go.

Tidbit of information for less.

Yeah, well, what I meant to say is, fall

is starting and we have one

final giveaway. It's giveaway time,

everybody.

As you know, we have been doing giveaways

since our hundredth episode. So all summer, we

gave away a, DCU Spec bundle,

a MCU Spec bundle,

a multiverse alternate universe

bundle, and now we have our signed book bundle,

which we sort of saved the best for last, if you like

signed books. I guess if you don't, this might not be the best for

last, but I'm pretty proud of what we assembled

together for people. So just to rattle

them off and we'll keep posting about them. And Rob will tell you in

just a moment how to win. But we have the

first issue of House of Slaughter, signed

by James Tinian. So, legendary,

queer horror writer James Tinian in

the world of Something is Killing the Children. So it's a huge

book anyway, and we've got it signed. We have

the X Deaths and a.

Kick ass female character, sorry, by the way, just to tie it.

Well, something's killing the children does. House of Slaughter is

not. But, we have X deaths of Wolverine from the X

Deaths X Lives event series. First issue, signed

by Benjamin Percy. We have Lazarus

planet. Revenge of the Gods. That is the

recent DCU event from last year that has

sparked tons of what we're seeing in DC right now, signed

by Simone Demeo. We have because we don't

want everything to be new, we have an

alias.

Alias.

That's Jessica Jones. Yes.

Alias. Signed by David Mack. The amazing artist and

co creator of Alias. David Mack. It's an issue

that's a little beat up and has seen better days, but who cares? If

you like David Mack and Jessica Jones, you'll want it on your wall,

we have the Odly pedestrian life of

Christopher Chaos, signed by not one,

not two, not three, but four

of the creators. So that is

huge. The foil cover, we have Blue Book number one, same,

also by James Tinian. We love his autograph,

and I have so many of them. Dark. Crisis

number one. Signed by Joshua Williamson. It's the

variant cover with John Kent, with Yara Floor,

with Lucius Fox, or Luke Fox, whoever that Batman

is. Signed by Joshua Williamson, architect of the

DC Universe and Dead Boy detectives.

Number one. This is still apparently coming

out as a TV series based on the Neil Gaiman property,

dead Boy Detectives. And this is signed by

this series creator,

Pornsak Pichetchot. I don't know if I'm saying

their name correctly, but they

have signed that book. So that

is for your enjoyment, for

your collection. Eight signed

books that we will send to you.

But how do you win? Well,

to enter, we're going to be crude because we want

to be more popular. Ed, you can

help. So this giveaway is going to the person

who posts about us. Tagging us on

any social media platform. So

Blue Sky,

MySpace friendster

x?

Not really, but we are on X. We are

on TikTok, we are on Blue Sky. We are

on Instagram. We are on Facebook.

Is that everything we're on? threads. The

other threads, that's the one. Okay, so if you

post it at us on any of those social media

networks, tag us, and with any single post

that gets the most likes

before October 1, we will

watch, every post. Tagging us on all those platforms. And if

yours is the most likes, these books are

coming your way.

Yes. So, less than a week to do that.

So get your fans out there to pay

attention to what we're doing with your post. And

again, your post with the most likes will end up with these

books. We might even throw another one or two in because

there are some signed books coming our way this week and

I couldn't control myself and just kept clicking

by. So maybe I'll throw one of those new,

autographs in there and it's a really good one, but we'll see

what happens. We'll see how many likes your posts

get, and then you'll find out if you're getting this bundle or

this bundle and then

some. So, dear Watchers, thank you

for listening. Thank you for entering our

giveaway. I have been the tomb raider.

Guido and I have been Rob.

The reading list is in the show notes. You can follow us on all those

social medias where you're tagging us at.

Dear watchers and leave a review wherever you listen

to podcasts. We'll be back soon with another trip through

the multiverse.

In the meantime, in the words of Watu, keep pondering

the.