Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

>> Rob: Happy sesquicentennial to us.

>> Guido: Rolls right off the tongue.

>> Rob: And welcome to Dear Watchers and I'mn, the Universal Comic Book podcast, where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

>> Guido: We have been traveling with you for over 150 episodes through the stories and the worlds that make up an omniverse of fictional realities we all love. And your watchers on this long and arduous journey are me, Guido, me.

>> Rob: Rob, we have an extra special guest with, us today. Yes, it's the person responsible for more than half the views on the new Superman trailer. It's Elliot from Elliot Comic Arts.

>> Guido: I thought you were gonna say something about his responsibility for us for this show. If you remember, the show was originally something me and Elliott wanted to do. Then, And then I offloaded it to you, Rob.

>> Rob: Well, yes. Elliot's a parent, so he has way too much time, not enough time, I should say, to do a podcast. A silly little podcast with us. Well, he does.

>> Guido: He seems to have plenty of time to watch Superman trailers is what you're saying.

>> Rob: That is true.

>> Elliot: I do that in the bathroom. Rob, than you, thank you for being my replacement for these last 150 episodes. And Guido and Rob, thanks so much for having me, for this appearance. I am the, secret love child of David KN Sweat and Chris Evans.

>> Guido: A dream if ever I had it.

>> Rob: and so, Elliot, you said I was subbing you for the last 150 episodes. So does this mean you're taking over? He s moving on.

>> Guido: No, he's taking over at 300. When we got to 300.

>> Elliot: OK. We'll be recording once a year.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah, a special edition once a year.

>> Rob: Well, before we dive into this very special anniversary episode, what's new in our little section of the multiverse?

>> Guido: well, we just did a Batman Returns screening you primarily hosted. We put together a fun pre show. We do lots of screenings in the upstate New York region, and that was fun and felt deeply connected to the work we're doing. Usually it's horror movies or other action movies, but this one being Batman Returns, was very comic bookie and it was very fun to pull some clips and commercials for that. So congratulations, Rob. It's fun that we're broadening our, we're becoming a multimedia empire.

>> Rob: That's true. Well, you know, and going back to podcast too, I've wanted to do screenings for a while, but one of the impetus for this was, I know, our good friends at Comic Book Couples Counseling also hosts a lot of movie screenings. And they do a lot of superhero movie screening. So definitely some of the germ of the idea started with them as well.

>> Guido: And one day we'll go to Virginia and join them and they'll come to New York and join us.

>> Rob: Exactly.

>> Guido: It'be a mega crossover. Yes, exactly. But it's our anniversary, so let's get on with the party.

>> Rob: And if you're joining us for the first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse, origins of the story, exploring multiversity and pondering possibility.

>> Guido: So thanks for coming along and remember, you can leave us a five star review as a anniversary present wherever you're listening. And you can find us on most social media at Deer Watchers or find our old episodes@deerwatchers.com.

>> Rob: And with that, welcome to episode 150W.

>> Guido: Check out.

>> Rob: Let's check out what's happening in the Omniverse with our travels to today's alternate universe. Now normally at this part of the show we talk about our histories with a famous comic book character or famous comic book storyline. But since we're kind of looking inward.

>> Guido: For a lot of today's ep ###ise not exclusively though.

>> Rob: No, no. We're gon toa talk about something that just, just wrapped up just this week as we're recording. But I'll throw it out to you all. What is your background with our own podcast?

>> Guido: That's funny. Well, people who've been listening for a long time know our origin, but in case people have jumped in somewhere along the way in these 150, we. I think we've stayed pretty true to our original mission, which is to explore, ah, a different multiverse every episode and to sort of situate it within the context of what's canon, what's not, what we want to see in stories, what we ponder as the future possibilities. So our formats changed a bit. I remember we used to read a lot more in the early days, but it was also still kind of COVID era, so we had a lot more time and we've paired back a bit, but I think we've stayed true. And we actually have more than 150 episodes because we have some bonus epis, but this is our formal numbering. 150. And we're ah, at three and a half years.

>> Elliot: Yeah, I remember too. Guido, you and I, as we talked about the beginning of this episode, you and I really wanted to do a podcast as a way to formalize talking more often with our busy schedules. And I think I still have some Google Docs we shared originally. I don't know if you remember this. I was just remembering it as you were talking. We wanted to do kind of a secret origins podcast.

>> Guido: Uh-huh.

>> Elliot: I do remember where we would talk about our interview different people and figure out their origin, what was their origin story into their comic book fandom. I love that idea. and we started with an idea of like just you and me and interviewing each other and then interviewing our good friends and other podcasters and hopefully growing it into something that I don't think exists anymore. I listen to a lot of comic book interview podcasts that don't really go that deep. I was really interested because I love learning how what makes people work and think and what makes them who they are and why people get into comic books I think is really different, but also unifying. And maybe someday that's a retirement project. Maybe that's how it started. And you were doing, queer and material and I listen to those. But my podcast is, I've been in it since day one. I listen every week and there are certain episodes. I'm a very, I think many people are probably like this, but if I'm doing something and listening to a podcast, if I do it again or listen again, I will remember exactly what I'm doing. And so one of my favorite all time interviews that you did is with, Luciano Vecchio shoveling my driveway in the winter. Every single time I'm out in the driveway, whether I'm shoveling or there's certain moments, I will remember parts of that interview. And that was a real gift. I really love him and his work in that interview.

>> Guido: That's so fun. What a fun memory.

>> Rob: And I think one thing that we've brought to the podcasting world is actually you, Gito, having, and listeners who have ve listened, who have followed us on this journey, will know you have 30,000 comics. So you are such a comic expert. You're reading all the new books, you know a lot of the storylines. I am coming at it as a comic fan, someone who likes comics, but I don't know nearly as much as you do. And Elliott, I think when you join us, you're kind of in the middle of the two of us there too. So I think it's interesting. Like I'm kind of coming at it too from like a fan of the medium and a fan of world building. You're coming at it as kind of an expert in those things and it kind of ultimately balancing out. So we're not just kind of, oh, let's just talk like, because we know everything. We certainly don't. Or certainly I don't know everything about.

>> Guido: No, I know I forget everything even if I did know it.

>> Rob: So yeah, I think the podcast has gone on too. We've gotten a lot more into the history of some of these characters. Rather than just focus on those single issues. We've gotten into the history of a character or history of a, creator or storyline and kind of dive a little deeper in that way too.

>> Guido: The other thing that I think was really important, and I'm reminded, Elliot, that you and I both function like this. So our planning and brainstorming always included a lot of structure. And it's also what Rob and I really like. And so we've held to that, having a structure. And I think that is really fun and I am glad that we've stuck with it. It'we refined it a little bit over time in the first couple of episodes, but I think we've stayed pretty true to the three part structure we have. Looking back, looking present, looking forward. And I really like that way of organizing our thoughts. We've even done it when we've like reviewed movies and stuff like that. We'll use that same structure. So that's another thing I think that we've done. And I like, I love it too.

>> Elliot: Cause hope is something that I really like. And the end of every episode is that pondering possibilities where you're just looking forward to the future. It's my favorite part about fandom is that these stories keep changing and growing as we do too. And just always thinking about what's possible and what we get excited about. that's what drove our friendship over. The MCU is like, oh my God, who's going toa be in this movie? And I think that's the same thing with stories. And that's what I love about the podcast too, is that every week, there's reflection, which is important. There' being present, which is important. And then there's being hopeful and excited about the future, which I think is also really cool.

>> Guido: Yeah. And imagining and stuff. Yeah. And predicting all of that is really good. So, dear listeners, tell us what your origin to our podcast is before we move into our next segment.

>> Rob: Yeah, speaking of structure, let's jump into that first segment, which, as always, is origins of the Story.

>> Elliot: Right now, on this very show, you're.

>> Rob: Gonna get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago. So if you go all the way back to episode one. In our earliest episodes, you'll know that this actually started not as just a Multiverse Omniverse podcast, but a what if podcast.

>> Guido: Well, it was always meant to go beyond. We just started there. And so it is important to return to that with our 150th episode. But what I'll also point out is we kept the episode naming convention of creating a what if question. And some of those, our most fun conversations. sometimes there're often actually there are not when we're recording, trying to figure out when we're reading in elseorlds or when we're reading some other multiverse. What is the what if question here? Like, what can we understand to be the question? So I like keeping the what if question present. But, yes, we did start. Start with those what ifs, and there are plenty more that we haven't gotten to.

>> Rob: There are s. So many more. And it's a little bit like Uwatu himself put his finger on the sacred timeline for us, right? Because this is our 150th episode, and the what if series on Disney just ended for good. Question mark. So why don't we actually.

>> Guido: Definite exclamat point for good. So there's no question.

>> Rob: O. Well, never say never, I guess, but yes. Okay. Well, please, let's talk then about season three of what?

>> Guido: Before we get to season three, we have. All three of us have covered season one a little bit. We covered the premiere episode and Captain Carter on a bonus episode not numbered back in August 2021. And then we covered more thoroughly series two. We actually went through and ranked the questions and looked at all the episodes individually, and that was back on episode 124. So people can go back and listen to those, and I think we'll start generally, and then we'll do a spoiler warning. So if you haven't watched, you're still good to listen, but we'll warn you before we get into plot details. So, who wants to start with a general impression pre spoiler warning?

>> Elliot: I guess I'll go, Oh, and I was also thinking when you were talking about the origins of your podcast, that my original design for your logo was Oatu.

>> Guido: Yes, correct. I still have those, those postcards, in fact, and stickers of Oatu on the microphone.

>> Elliot: Yes. It was important departure, though, because it's more. More multiversal than just. Than just what if.

>> Guido: Yes.

>> Elliot: my general impression, as I thought about this season and in context with the series, is that I remember in season One, because it came out every week having to reset my expectations for that whole MCU premise that it's all connected. And so there were certain episodes I liked, certain episodes I didn't. But was, that was still a time where really wanted everything to, like, tie into everything else. It was like, oh, my gosh, this what if is coming right after Loki season one, and is it going toa explore the multiverse that it set up and all this thing? And it did, but not as connected as I wanted to. Season two, I thought then brought it all together. And I remember you guys, I remember watching it and texting you and saying, you have to watch. Like, you have to watch this. You had been a little bit behind. I knew you love it.

>> Rob: Ah.

>> Elliot: And that season two really had some individual episodes and then really created a new character in Cohorte and then connected all of them at the end. So season three, I think, is a mix of both. I think there were certain. I, went in expecting a little season one and a little season two and got both. My general impression is that I wanted more connectivity, though, because I think that's when this series works the strongest is when you have really imaginative, fun characters, like really leaning into the what if of it all mixed with a, through line of these characters that are introduced and that we love when they show up again and kind of converge and kind of do an Avengers type thing like happened with a certain character. I was about to spoil somethings season.

>> Guido: I think. Think, I think you and I agree and we didn't pre discuss this, but I think I would frame it a little differently because I actually think what. Where the show is best. And this was true in the second season. The what? First season is very distinct. The second season this was true. And the third season, this became even more true. To me, the show is best when it's working in its own lore. It's. And it's like telling its own story. That's when it really hits. And it does that at the end of the second season and then it does it again at the end of the third season. And those. Those are the episodes when frankly, I multitasked during this show and I rarely multitask during shows. I multitaske during this show. I'm lukewarm on it. That's fine. We can get into more specifics why. But when we got to the final two, this is no spoiler yet. We got to the final two, I looked up like, I was like, oh, I want to pay attention now. And so I Think I see that as, like, the show gets almost stuck when it is trying to connect too much to the mcu, when it's trying to like, pull on a thread from some obscure MCU reference. It's like it's getting trapped in that lore and it's not able to like, tell a fun, interesting story. So I, yeah, I think we agree. I just would, I would call it something different.

>> Elliot: Yes. Yeah, I fully agree. And I forgot what I was going toa say. So, Rob, go for it.

>> Rob: I think I, I. This is very boring because I think I also agree with both, both of you really as well, that the last couple of episodes of this season really grabbed me. And I think what the series doesn't always do well, and this has been consistent throughout all three seasons, is it doesn't have often a strong what if question. And Guido, you just mentioned that. That's one of the fun things about this podcast, is coming up with what that question is. And sometimes it's just such and such character is in the Old west. That is not like a what if question.

>> Guido: And you can even tell from the episode titles because, like, that episode you're referring to, and this is not yet a spoiler, is just called what if? 1872. Like, they didn't even put a question in it. Whereas, like, the one prior to that is like, what if the emergence, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, they clearly had thought more about the inciting incident. So, yeah, I think you're right that the, the question framing is important. And it's funny because we've gone back and forth in the comic books that sometimes the question, I think, can be too narrowing. Like, the question doesn't provide a lot of opportunity for open world building and the stuff we like in these kinds of stories. But I think you need a question. Ultimately, even if the question that's being asked maybe is the wrong question, there needs to be a question that's framing it. I was struck. Rob, I'm sure you had this thought or, or having this thought right before recording, we were watching a documentary about your favorite television series called Inside Number Nine, which is an anthology series. And there's a moment that these two extraordinary writers and creators and showrunners were talking about how they'll often write an entire script and sort of sit with it and then'they'll sit quietly while they're collaborating for a while and then one of them will then say, like, what if? And that's how they'll get to the end. And it was really powerful, to Hear that Thinking about that we were going to record this episode because I think that's what is good about, a what if. What is good about that question device. And what is lacking, as you're saying, when they had an episode that wasn't organized around a clear question, it was sort of lacking that thread that I think these creators are talking about being able to pull at in that kind of collaboration.

>> Elliot: Yeah. What I was gonna say before too, is, that especially when you have something that's animated and you can do anything you want to, like budget is not a constrict. You know, constriction. Like the first episode with Avengers Mech. That would be a crazy experience.

>> Guido: Right, Right.

>> Elliot: And you can do it really easily, some of them. And this was happening season one, but it was okay because it was introducing the premise. But I almost wanted more. And my favorite episodes of the season were more kind of wild out there. Who's going to show up? And a, really truly different version of these characters. And they kind of played it safe. Like some of the episodes that were just a variation of an MCU movie are not as interesting anymore because, Your point, Guido? It's most successful when it's telling its own story and creating its own lore. And so when those what ifs are so such a drastic departure from the mcu, that's what makes it fun. Or to have someone like Tom Hiddleston voice Loki, but have it be a completely different Loki.

>> Guido: M or lo.

>> Elliot: Right. Is really, really fun and exciting and makes this show, makes. Justifies its existence, I guess another way of saying it too.

>> Rob: Yeah, I think there's a reason.

>> Guido: Make your point and then we'll go to spoiler territory.

>> Rob: Sure. Well, I think there's a reason why the one episode we covered from season one about Captain Carter, the first episode of the season, and why Captain Carter has stood out as O.

>> Guido: hold on. Okay, so let's do a spoiler warning because I think it's. I think with what you're about to say, it's important because I'm sure people can assume she comes back. They don't know it. Spoiler warning. We're going to now talk about the full season of series three through to the series finale of what if. So if you haven't watched it and you care about these details, stop listening and come back and listen afterwards.

>> Rob: She does come back here. She plays a big part in so many of the seasons. But I think kind of going back to the what if? Question, why, of course, that character Stands out for many reasons. We love seeing her kick ass. And Kly Ol Atwell is really good.

>> Guido: Yeah. Her voice acting is great. Yeah.

>> Rob: but I think it also goes back to the what if question, because what happens in that episode, what creates Captain Carter is a fundamental what if question. What if Peggy Carter got the Super Soldier serum, instead of Steve Rogers? So I think, yes, there's all these other reasons why we like that character, but it's not just, okay, we're just going to put that character in another time or we're just going to do something fun and wacky. Those can be well done as well. But I think there's just something fundamental about us knowing what her story is from the. Very.

>> Guido: Well, there's a whole narrative framing comes with that. I agree. I was thinking during this series when I was feeling a little lukewarm about it even in the end, and loving the Captain Carter stuff toward the end, which we can get into details. I was thinking though, what the series lacked was something like, what if Uncle Ben had lived? What if. What if Mary Jane had been bitten by a radioactive activive spider? What if Spider man and Mary Jane had gotten married? Right. Like all the classic what if questions, it was lacking. And you're right, Captain Carter's story is an example of like a classic what if question. So that's interesting. I hadn't thought about that as I just thought I loved her because she's a strong, awesome woman. but I think there are probably narrative reasons that she's so much more compelling than everyone else'watching in that show. And her moment at the end after she's a watcher and like when she pushes back against the three evil watchers, like she's. It's just like so rewarding because she's awesome.

>> Elliot: Well, that's what I was saying two before the show becomes more rewarding because we've seen Captain Carter through all three seasons, so we get to know her as a character where sometimes when they're doing these one and done episodes, like Shang Chi and Kate Bishop, for example, we've seen Shang Chi in one movie, which was now three years ago. And I love Shang Chi. And just to put him in the old west, which I'm also like too drawn to logic, that doesn't make any sense because the old west happened a long time ago.

>> Guido: Right. What is the what if that's resulting in that? I. They do a lot of temporal transposition, like the Agatha, also, I think.

>> Rob: But that's the kind of. But they're even there within the logic of the show. I think Elliot, you put up a good point because there'just kind of transposing these characters to the old west while there's the other episode which focuses on Agatha and King Kille. Yeah, Kingo.

>> Guido: I guess they're bothortals.

>> Rob: Those characters make sense because yes, they're basically immortal but even there there's a little bit of a logic discrepancy. It's like well, okay, we get these two characters who can basically live forever being in the past. But why are these other two characters there without any reasoning? Yes, it's a multiverse but when you put those two things in a season together it's like I don't know if that quite works for me.

>> Guido: Yeah, yeah.

>> Elliot: And the Captain Carter too. When when we get to know these characters and there is a through line even though it can be episodic is when that really works. And that's what I like about it. So do you want to talk about like what worked?

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Elliot: Okay. so Captain Carter works.

>> Guido: Agreed.

>> Elliot: my favorite episodes of the season were ones that took the what if premise and like I was saying before what you can do with animation and just threw in everything. I don't often like wild and zany. I like more grounded stories.

>> Elliot: I think one of my favorite episodes was what if Howard the Duck got hitched.

>> Guido: Really?

>> Elliot: I liked it is because it was surprising. Like when they're on what's the ice planet. Oh my gosh. Where Laufay was born.

>> Rob: Not O It's not half. That's what I wanted to say. Wrong franchise.

>> Elliot: Yes. When on the ice planet of Hoth and all of a sudden shows up and then. And then Not Hercules. Zeus shows up. Zeus.

>> Guido: Yeah. Yeah. They throw a lot into that episode which is fun.

>> Elliot: That's when and youid know I'm the same as you. I was doing something else. I was watching it with my 10 year old and 6 year old son who were also somewhat bored with certain episodes and that was a huge test for me. When that episode came on I looked up from Folding Laundryus. That's what I'm doing when I'm watching the show. And then I was really engaged in it. I thought it was really fun. And so I think that another thing that works is the surprising combination of characters. And that's what I loved about the last two episodes too. When you see grown up Birdie, played by Natasha Leon which was hilarious and you get Cohorti from the last one and all these characters just show up and, Storm, the goddess of thunder. That's when the show really works, because you can't really do that in live action. That really worked for me, too.

>> Guido: Yeah. And I think the other thing that both of those examples have is the Howard the Duck, which I liked. I think I liked it a little less than you, but it had. It was also a good quest, story. Like a sort of a heist story. You have all the characters going for this one thing and, like, it's sort of a MacGuffin. and that's really fun. It's a typical archetype. And same thing with the final two episodes. You've got, like, the impending doom. The world's going to be destroyed. You therefore need a force that's as strong, that can combat that. Like, so they're both really typical story archetypes. Whereas if you think about even the Agatha episode, which was fun in some ways, but certainly the Capate Bishop Shang Chi episode, and then what other other episodes are in there that I'm even forgetting at this point and having watched them less than 24 hours ago, and I can't even tell you what the story arc was like. There's not. There wasn't really an arc. It doesn't. You can't summarize it very easily. So I think that takes away from it.

>> Elliot: Yeah.

>> Rob: Yeah. I think what I'm also hearing from a lot of both of you, and one question I had is why is it animated? And I want to see on an episode, I want to see. Oh, something you can only do through animation. And I think, like, what you're saying with that Howard to Duck episode and certainly with the final episodes, those lend itself so well to animation. And not for us to, like, continue to talk down on, like, the Old west episode, but when you watch that, you go, okay, does this need to be animation? What are we getting from.

>> Guido: Are you doing animating Fun. Yeah.

>> Rob: That we aren't getting from this being, like, being a live action version of this. So I think I'm constantly thinking, and I even think back to some of the other episodes that I liked from previous seasons, like the Happy Hogan, like, Christmas episode. And it's like, I want to see the wacky zaniness that I know they're not going to do on formal MCU or something. That's budget restraint. Even though I didn't love the episode, I think the first episode with the Kaiju kind of element, that is fun because, again, that's not something that we're ever going to see on screen with live action. So it works. Give it to me an animation.

>> Elliot: Yeah. Yep, definitely. I also youo I thought of you too. I thought what really worked is this Exiles team, Did they put together Exiles?

>> Guido: I said that to Rob and honestly I think that's I think the show should have just been that. I think that would have been a much better show and it maybe even would have saved the show if they had formally done that in the third season. Let's get rid of this what if structure and let's now just assemble people from different universes and send them out on quests because that would have been a lot more fun. It would have done everything we're describing with taking advantage of animation and subverting expectations and being able to go further. But it would have kept a, ah, story structure and kept a, like arc going. So I really wish they had just been the Exiles. I really don't understand why they didn't.

>> Elliot: one other thing that I think really worked for me that made me sit up and, and think a little bit more was Oatu's journey. I did really like that. It just seemed a little bit delayed. Like this is something he was breaking his own vow in season 1M so this seemed like a culmination of and it worked for a series finale too. I really liked that message of he was supposed to learn a lesson. He didn't know what lesson he was supposed to learn and he learned from the people he was supposed to be watching. But he says at some point to Jason Isaac's character, I love Jason Isaacs, because we were just watching, him as Lucius Malfoy, because my son, but this idea of observing versus seeing, I really like there certain moments that his arc really worked and why he was revolting against the other, watchers and that I wanted more of like I wanted that threaded more through the season. And then when it, when it, when it happened those last two episodes, that's like you said, guido too. I sat up and took more notice.

>> Guido: Well, if they had done away with the what if structure and been and Exile show, you could have had more of an ongoing sort of B plot in the episodes with the Watchers Council. And you could have understood that dynamic and learned more and gone deeper with that. But instead they just had to sort of pin it to the end of an episode to build toward the final two.

>> Elliot: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Rob: One episode that really comes to mind there. Well, it didn't come to mind because I completely forgot about it is the what if The Emergence destroyed the Earth episode. And right away, like that. There you go. Like that what if question is not really what that episode is actually about.

>> Guido: No, it's just setting up the finale. Yeah.

>> Rob: But then, even then, Uatu, what he says to Rei, it does feel like tacked on. Like Allatu says is like, fight back. And like, that's it. Like, it's like, was that enough in terms of him actually going in? It does feel like it's kind of tacked on because that episode is so full of so much other story that they're kind of cramming into 20 something.

>> Guido: Minutes and they're trying to call back to stuff in the earlier series. Like, I couldn't. I couldn't even follow. And I love complex world building. And there were just things that I could not make sense of here that I think. Because I think they didn't only get mired when they tried to do mcu, like the, the Bucky Red Guardian episode. I think they got mired when they tried to get too much into their own plot circles. Which that episode, to me, the Emergence one was an example where it was like, I don't really care. I don't need to know if this is that Earth and Ultrons on that Earth and Mysterio. Who cares? Move on. Like, let's move on. just get me where I'm going.

>> Elliot: Yeah. And what was interesting to me too is because of the delays in Marvel Studios productions, the Red Guardian and Bucky episode felt like it might have worked if we had already seen Thunderbolts. Like there was even aene elevator opens. I know you guys don't want teasers, but the Thunderbolts teaser has that almost exact scene. And especially with Reiri Williams show was supposed to air already. The series, which I think the Hood is, is rumored to be in there. And they mentioned the Hood there.

>> Rob: I think.

>> Guido: Well, no, Red Hood is in Daredevil born again. Played by a different character played by a different actor.

>> Elliot: I thought the weird thing thought. I thought the Red Hood was supposed to be an Iron.

>> Guido: Oh, maybe it's Ironheart.

>> Elliot: I think I thought it also Dham Anthony Ramos.

>> Guido: Yeah, it is. Anthonymos. That's why it's weird that Walton Goggins was the Hood here.

>> Rob: Well, Walton Goggins wasn't the Hood. The sisters the Hood and then the Hood doesither way.

>> Guido: It's not Anthony Ramos.

>> Rob: Yes, no, that's true.

>> Elliot: That's what was interesting to me. I was like, would some of these episodes have worked if we knew the. Well, that they were trying to draw from the KN they were making to characters we haven't really spent a lot of time with or. Or seen in a while or we're supposed to have spent more time with in the mcu. And. And this got.

>> Guido: Yeah. Remember, there was a ten ring show that the sister is supposed to be y. That maybe it will happen, maybe it won't.

>> Rob: But Guido and I actually did not know that it was Michelle Yio's character from Shangxi. We did have to look it up because we didn'I.

>> Guido: Was like, is it Michelle yo from the Ravagers? We knew it wasn't Michello's voice, but it was like, is she being the Ravager's character? No, she's being the Shang Chi character. Well, let's talk a little bit about the MCU and where this fits into the mcu, because there are a lot of references, and I don't have the confidence in the MCU that I used to. And it's funny because I feel like I have a lot more confidence in D.C. so on our Creature Commandos episode, I talked about how what was interesting in Creature Commandos is. And this is not a spoiler, it's in the first episode, which has been out for a long time now, is like, Themiskya exists. Like, so they. They're right out the gate. And James Gunn's writing it. James Gunn s the architect of the dcu. So right out of the gate. I know as a fan of Wonder Woman, Themiskya exists. I don't know if Wonder Woman exists. I don't know what the deal with that is, but it's enough. And I now am so confident that when we get to that story, it's going to build on what was in Creature Commandos. It's going to build on this. This plot of this politics and the terrorist group and all that. In this case, I can't tell if things are like. Like, you're saying, like, almost like a writer was told, like, use Red Guardian because we're gonna see him, or use Shang Chi's sister because she's gonna be in the shell. Like, I don't know if these are. Are signposts to something we're gonna see. Natasha Leone is a great question here. She's in Fantastic Four. Is there a chance she's Birdie in Fantastic Four? Which would be ridiculous, but, like, why is she in this show and in a movie next year? I don't understand.

>> Elliot: And I, too, I had listened to an interview With Brad Winderbaum, the executive producer who's now the head basically of Marvel Animation and tv. And I think that actually ruined the final episode for me because he said in an interview that this was going to set up the kind of future of the Multiverse saga, like the end of the Multiverse saga. So I was expecting something a little bit different, like, Like Yugito. I was expecting this to maybe tie in or set something up. and maybe it has. But my faith in the MCU is like, oh, so will Jeffrey Wright be the watcher's voice in Secret Wars? Like, is that what this is going to be? Or is Peggy Carter going to show up now as a Watcher? As a Watcher, yeah. But that's not the same. That's not the same ramifications as. Well, we don't even know yet too, because look, I thought this was going to tie into Loki Season 2. Someow I was convince.

>> Guido: I thought so when the. When the watchers were blowing them with like what looked like the sort of nullification energy and saying like, this is the end of the multiverse, like all versions of you will end. And there was the cool sequences where like different versions of the characters pull out of them. I thought, I thought, oh, this is gonna be a little bit of Loki season two. Like, the tree is sort of rebuilding itself and then they don't go there at all. So I don't know why.

>> Elliot: whereas the end of season two, they did show the tree. Remember, they showed the multiversal tree and it was right with Loki season two. So that's that again, expectations always ruin results sometimes. if it doesn't come true. Yeah. I just was expecting there be a little bit more time. Maybe there will be. But it wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't the same as I was hoping for.

>> Rob: There was a lot of focus, I thought, on these very super powerful out of this world beings. Right. So there was like two episodes that featured the Celestials, which have only been in one movie that a lot of people don't even remember super well. So the fact that they were in two episodes here, plus you have the Watchers, plus you even have this idea of Stehven Strange existing in another universe. I was wondering, oh, is that going to be playing a part in the future of the multiversal saga, bringing in these big cosmic beings that we've not really seen all too much on film.

>> Elliot: Quite.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Guido: But that's where part of me is like knowing that animation takes a really long time was it that Eternals had just sort of come out and they were like, use the Eternals. Get Tiamat in there. Or was it maybe that Eternals didn't do so well and was sort of being left behind and they were like, get Eternals in there. Remind people of it. Or is it what you're saying, there's a future story that is going to use the Celestials, and so they were putting it in here? I think that's the least likely. Sadly, that's my cynicism. But, yeah, I don't. I don't know. You're right that Celestials are in it a lot, though.

>> Elliot: I know some things about some upcoming movies that you don't because you don't watch trailers. So I will say that some of this is. I think you're right.

>> Guido: Well, we know that Captain America involves the. The marbleized Tiamat or whatever that for you.

>> Elliot: Yeah, yeah. So that's why I do think it's like, oh, guys, remember, this is supposed to be that there's Tiamt. We remember, and now we want you to remember. And again, I think about my wife, who is a very casual fan. So Will. She has not watched one episode of what if. She will not watch an episode of what if? And she'll go into Captain Americ Brave New World and not know it. And she saw Eterntals with us, and that's the last time she's thought about it. So I also think sometimes, too, about the really casual fans who will also probably show up to Captain America and be like, where's Chris Evans moving?

>> Guido: Well, that's part of the issue with this series. Yeah. I was thinking this actually, with the introduction of Storm, as much as I loved it, I was like, this is really indecipherable for someone who doesn't know this from the comics, because they don't give you anything about the origin. Not a thing. There's not. I wasn't even expecting a whole flashback sequence, but there is not even a reference to, like, this Storm has Mjolnir and becomes an Asgardian God, which happens in the comics, as we all know. So, like you, anyone, anyone who's not steeped in the lore of the comics would watch that and be like, what is this? Who is that? And why am I watching this? And that is, I think, a flaw in the show.

>> Rob: Well, part of that. It's also because the storm is paired with the Birdie character, which both you and I, Gita, were like.

>> Guido: I had to look it up before the reveal of who is I was like what is this? Who is this person?

>> Rob: But even watching it, I'm not sure. Is it supposed to be a reveal? Are you supposed to know as soon as that character appears? I still don't quite know. And I think the fact that like that character is partnered with Storm and also partnered with another character from season two that we have t seen since one episode in season two. There's a lot going onah.

>> Elliot: Well I figured out when she said her duck wrs when she was playing foosball, I was like duck wrists. I was like oh, she's a duck. Oh, it took like there's no such thing as a duck wrist. So ye.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Elliot: And what I was thinking too is that so you have this whole episode with what if Howard the Duck got hitched? That sets up Birdie. They could have replaced any of the episodes that we mentioned that we barely remember what it is and told the origin of Storm that God usess of thunder. That would have been, that would have been a killer episode. That would been great because then it again it goes back to what I was saying before which is what it's missing. You can have these one and done episodes but if it doesn't really connect anything, it's forget. It's completely forgettable.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Elliot: Yeah.

>> Guido: So yeah, I don't imagine I'll ever go revisit any of what if, if I were to under duress it would be like the finales of each season.

>> Elliot: Yeah.

>> Guido: And that's pretty much it.

>> Elliot: I will end with A positive thing is that I really and I don't know if it's just the way that I like to watch or that it was exciting for my children. I like the one episode a day during the holiday season.

>> Guido: It felt like the release sched on.

>> Elliot: Break from work, my kids are on break. We woke up every single morning Last year we did the same thing and it was an advent. It's a little advent calendar. It was like one episode day. And if there was a little bit of a cliffhanger like the second the watcher gets in trouble, I was like ooh. And we all kind of perked up. We're like ooh, what's going to happen to him? Well, we'll just figure it out tomorrow morning, 6:30am Again. So I agree.

>> Guido: I like that schedule. It's also, it's a stunning work of art. I think the animation that the final fight with the watchers could have been like really hard to follow rushed. But it was, it was not it was gorgeous. It was like perfectly comic bookie and anime esque, but also like the kind of sort of. They're going for the hand drawn look of animation. And I thought it was just beautiful and perfect visually and guido.

>> Rob: I know you've got it really into like kind of fan edits too. Like, I think it really makes sense to do like edit of these three seasons where you basically got the Captain Carter episodes. You have the season finale story, as you just said. and then that's it. And we kind of get rid of the rest and the rest. but, well, let's follow Captain Carter. Let's follow a WAU and that's the show.

>> Guido: Yeah, I agree.

>> Elliot: Let's make the Deer Watchers cut.

>> Rob: Exactly.

>> Guido: Oh my gosh. We should make the deer watch least.

>> Rob: The Deer Watchers cut.

>> Guido: Gosh, one day when I'm really bored, maybe I'll do that.

>> Rob: Well, speaking of Deer Watchers, why don't we go into our own past a little bit and talk about some favorite episodes in multiverses? It's exploring multiversity.

>> Elliot: I am your guide through these vast new realities. Follow me and ponder the question, what if?

>> Rob: And today we are asking the question.

>> Guido: Do we need to change out that sound clip? One day maybe. Now the series is over. Go ahead.

>> Elliot: The Jason Isaac'one I really like that part.

>> Rob: Oh, that'true it's very fun. Yeah.

>> Guido: But anyway, Rob, I interrupted your question. What is our question today?

>> Rob: What if each of us had three favorite alternate worldash episodes that we've covered in our last 150 episodes?

>> Guido: Woo. All right, let's go. Let's go one around. Who's starting? We'll do round three. Rounds's off.

>> Rob: Okay, and this might just be recency bias, but I'm gonna actually name Our last episode 149. What if Santa Claus and Christmas were saved by Superman and Dr. Doom? But I'm saying this for a specific reason, which is that especially focusing on the Superman episode there because we haven't covered too much Silver Age DC Silver Age Superman. And anyone who knows or who's ever picked up one knows those are just bonkers comic books. And this is no exception because it's all about Superman trying to get Santa Claus to lose some weight so he can save Christmas. And it's just wacky and weird. And we haven't, The fact that we haven't actually handled or covered too many of those episodes, it was like. Oh, that really stands out in my mind.

>> Guido: Yeah, I like it. That's a good One. All right.

>> Elliot: Also think we're going to be getting a lot of Silver Age Superman coming up, because I think, the new Superman movie is going to be a real nod to Silver Age super.

>> Guido: Yeah. And it's gonna inspire certainly our reading interests.

>> Elliot: Yes.

>> Guido: All right, I'll go next. I'm going in reverse order, but mine is not quite as recent. I'm going Back to episode 132, which was actually what if number 100, which is a big anniversary issue where Sinister, Rogue and Gambit are. They're searching for this secret thing that is this. The will unlock the secrets of the universe. And on the final page, it's that meta moment where they unlock what Sinister has been coming after. And it's all the Marvel comics. And I just love. I love that story. I like meta stories. as everyone who'listens knows. And that was a real fun one with some of my favorite characters. So, I love that. What if have.

>> Elliot: I have four on my mind? So I'm trying to figure out which one I. I will. I guess I'll start with an earlier one. And I didn't write down the episode numbers. You guys have them all memorized, though, so you'll know which one I'm m talking about.

>> Guido: Right? Exactly.

>> Elliot: It'I think I was on this episode.

>> Guido: I love that you don't remember.

>> Elliot: What if Magneto and Professor X formed the X Men together. And I like that because it was also our chance to. It was right when House of X Powers of Ten was coming out also. And that was, now the X Men is kind of back and the Kockoga era is over. It does. That era does almost feel like an alternate reality. One was changed where Magneto and Professor X did form the X Men together. It remains one of my favorite comic storylines of all time because of Jonathan Hickman's writing, because of Pepe Larazz's and Martte Gracia's artwork. I just love that story. And I love that episode. And talking about. It's a great what if question because it changes the history of the Marvel Universe if they form that together. and I like that idea of two people wanting the same thing, but coming at it from two different ideas, working together to try to make a new reality. I think we need more of that in the world part.

>> Guido: And that was episode 21, if people want to go back and listen to it.

>> Elliot: Good.

>> Guido: Mem Back when exactly. I retrieved it from the memory banks. All right, Rob, what's next?

>> Rob: Well, listeners of the podcast will. No, I Do love, a villain. So I could have chosen several of the One Bad Day comics from DC because they're all so good. But I went with episode 96, which is what if Batman's villain Clayface had one bad day in Hollywood. And I think I was little inspired by having just seen a Hollywood episode of what if? Which was so. So maybe and how they approach things and then just also hosting this Batman movie where Batman is kind of off to the side. He's not really the focus of that movie. The villains are really the focus of the movie. So I was thinking, oh, here is a comic that does a great job of putting the villain front and center and really going back to their roots of like, oh, what if? You could be come anyone and you could change your appearance. Of course you are going to be an actor and you're struggling. Yes, you're a villain. You're murdering all these people. But at the same time, you're also dealing with all the issues that so many people have as an actor in Hollywood. It's such a great, brilliant comic, and I loved covering it.

>> Guido: It is. And as we posted on our social media, when James Gunn formally, made official that Mike Flanagan's Clayface is happening, he posted that cover. So maybe it will be an inspiration.

>> Rob: Yeah.

>> Elliot: Rob, I haven't texted you since that news came out. Are you super excited for it?

>> Rob: I am. I'm only hesitant because I know Mike Flanagan, who I do love and just saw New York Comic Con this past year. I know he's not directing the movie. And I know sometimes in Hollywood, of course, writing the screenplay and not being direct directing, it means someone else comes in and kind of changes their work and. But they keep your name on it. So I'm hoping that.

>> Guido: But we trust James Gunn, so. Yes, trustn.

>> Rob: But I definitely think that they will be using this as a jumping off point. I would not be surprised whatsoever.

>> Elliot: That's cool.

>> Guido: All right, my next pick is three episodes in one, because I am of course choosing Age of Apocalypse, which we covered in episodes 107, 109 and 1 11. It was the biggest coverage we've done and it was so much fun. I love the story. I love the world. It is, I think, the probably one of the most iconic. It's probably Marvel's most iconic alternate universe. And then u. compared to Kingdom Come, maybe they're tied. Even so, I think it is so good and so much to talk about that we needed three episodes to do it. And I look forward to another complex Mega World 3 part episode, but that one was great to do.

>> Elliot: Well, if true to form, if Rob picks a villain and Guido picks the X Men, my second choice has to be Superman. And I picked the episode where you covered whatever happened to the Mana tomorrow that Alan Moore.

>> Guido: Oh, yes.

>> Elliot: I love that. It's just an alternate I don't usually like.

>> Guido: You were on it, by the way.

>> Elliot: I was on that one you said.

>> Guido: You covered, but you're on it. It's episode 62.

>> Elliot: Right. I don't usually like the last stories of characters. Like, I don't like when Marvel does. Like the last Daredevil story.

>> Guido: Or the end.

>> Elliot: Yeah, yeah, the end. Because it doesn't really work with these continuing characters. I don't really like that. And I love that story and I think it's present in my mind because one of my favorite alternate realities is the Superman and Lois universe, from the TV show just wrapped up and they did a little bit of what Alan Moore did and really closed out what would happen if Superman grew up and got older and had this life with Lois. And it's just one of the most beautiful final episodes. And as a season of, or multiple seasons, a series that I just really loved. And so I like imagining those types of universes. And Alan Moore, nods all the Silver Age Superman and the silliness of kind of the Silver Age Superman and then ends with a. With a literal wink.

>> Guido: which I. Yeah, that was a good world, Al. Right. Rob. What? It's your final pick for favorite world we've covered.

>> Rob: Well, my second pick was episode 96. And now my final pick is episode 95. That was a good stretch for us right there.

>> Guido: I guess. So. The Golden Age.

>> Rob: The Golden Age. And it is. What if Josie and the Pussycat saved the world from being destroyed by teenagers turned into capitalist zombies? And that is us covering the Josie and the Pussycats movie starring Rachel Lee Cook. And I love this episode for several reasons. For one, of course, we had our other most frequent guests on the show, Ethan from Make Mine Amalglam, who is always Elliot shaking his head, his nemesis. But it's always great to have Ethan on the show. He's such an expert on amalgam comics. But also especially Josie the Pussycats. Maybe one of the biggest Josie or maybe the biggest Josie and the Pussycatsts fan out there in the world. And it was great hearing his insights on this. But I also do love when we move beyond just comics and also talk about comic adaptations on film. And this was great because this was A movie that I dismissed growing up because I was a film snob. And it was like, there's no way I'm seeing Joie the Pussycats with Tara Reed. And it's like, oh, no. But then, like, watching it as an adult, it was like, oh, my gosh, this is such a clever satire. I loved it. It was really funny. And I love going outside of D.C. and Marvel too, because another M. Almost. My other choice was the Josie and the Pussycats in Outer Space, where it's like, actually, like, a really legitimate good horror comic as well. So there we go. All things Josie and the Pussycats.

>> Guido: I like it. All right, my final pick is not a world that we covered, but you did say world or episode. And I'm gonna have to go with our first anniversary episode, episode number 54, which brought together all of our. Or many of our, not all, but many of our podcasting friends. And we played games in trivia, and it was so much fun and so special. And we've talked over and over and over again over the years about how meaningful the show has been for the connections and the relationships that it has created. But that episode was just. Even just to be able to get the 10 people or 12 people on a zoom call at one time and record a live episode was so amazing. But to have former guests like Carrie Harris and to have our podcasting friends like Brad and Lisa and Jake and Mike and Jessica, and just so many people were able to join. And of course, Elliot, and we played games and it was just so much fun. I will always remember that episode really distinctly and that experience. So.

>> Rob: And I had forgotten, actually, Elliot, that you designed some really awesome artwork for that episode. Us, as like the bradylywood Squares. The Brady Bunchh. Yeahlywood.

>> Guido: No, Hollywood Squares. It was more Hollywood Squares than Brady Bunch. That's right. I hadn't seen draw so many things. You didn't remember.

>> Rob: He have drawn so many things. But I was scrolling through the episodes, looking, and I saw that one too Guido. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this artwork is so fun. So thank you for doing that. Even though you don't remember.

>> Elliot: Don't remember it.

>> Guido: I might have just taken all of his drawings and I might have put them in the square.

>> Rob: Or maybe you.

>> Guido: Ah, that might be why he doesn't remember. But certainly the illustrations were his.

>> Elliot: I love that episode too. I've forgotten about it. I remember because I listened to all those podcasters. I was almost starstruck. I was really nervous. I never talked to Brad and Lisa, I'd never met Jake. I'd never seen Mike and Jessic. Like, I'd never like to attach the names and faces. That was really fun. That was cool. my third and final one is more recent. It's your coverage of the absolute DC Universe and All in dc all in. Oh, I'm really enjoying that. I like the Ultimate Marvel Universe also. There's something about these characters that have been around for such a long time and reinventing them. And you guys did such an awesome job of. I know I wasn't on that episode. I know that for a fact.

>> Guido: You were'and it was episode 147. So recent.

>> Elliot: Yes, very recent. I just love. And the writing and art is great. I'm really. And it gets me, like I was saying at the beginning of the episode, excited for the future of what these stories are going to be. I love reading Superman and Batman and Spider man and all these characters and there's just something about putting them in new contexts and having the writers just get to be more imaginative with them and not be beholden or weighed down, maybe even by 80 plus years of continuity in history is making it fresh and exciting. And, so that's a universe I really enjoy. And in elseorlds I like reading about.

>> Guido: You will have to do maybe a one year check in next year after they get to issue 12 and see where they're at after wave two comes out. There's plenty to talk about there.

>> Elliot: Well, what a great segue.

>> Guido: Speaking of which, Rob, get on it.

>> Rob: Speaking of the future, let's all ponder some possibilities.

>> Elliot: Will the future you describe be avertedertderted?

>> Rob: So, guido, what are we talking about? We don't have much pondering possibilities.

>> Guido: Yeah, we don't have much time for our final segment, but we will just glimpse what worlds should we be covering next. And this is kind of a wish list, but probably also realistically gonna be where we go. So we want to hear from all of our listeners. Please send us an email. Go to deerwatchers.com find us online at, Deer Watchers and tell us what worlds you want us to cover. But all of us thought a little bit about what we think we should be covering next. So who wants to start? I'I'll go look at all of us. Oh my gosh.

>> Rob: Oh my gosh.

>> Guido: Exc.

>> Elliot: Everyone say all there'one a all at the same time.

>> Guido: So I will start. I think we've always, we've done a few licensed adaptations. We've done, as you mentioned, Josie and the Pussycats, though, that's an unusual one. We've done Tomb Raider, we've done some video games, but you and I both love the Child's Play movies. And there's a comic book adaptation of that. There's a long running comic book adapting the Fright Night movie. There's so many sort of weird. I mean, we could do the ALF comic book. Like there's so many adaptations of things. And I would like us to explore more adaptations and figure out how multiversal they are or how canonical they are. The other thing that I want is tying back to our what if conversation. I want us to cover more Exiles, because Exiles is just. Is the promise of what if delivered through characters and interplay. And the series, I think, Rob, you would love it. and it's written by former Real World star Judd Wininick, and it's funny and touching and goes places that you can't go without the multiversal aspect. And so I think it does everything we want it to do and we haven't covered it. So exiles and licensed adaptations. Who's next?

>> Rob: Well, mine. Mine kind of. First one jumps off of yours a little bit there, guido, which is. You mentioned adaptations, and I'll be even more specific and say I'd love to cover the original Superman films and the original Batman films, neither of which we've covered. Of course. We've got the new Superman movie coming out. Batman is fresh in my mind because as you said, we just hosted a Batman screening and of course those have lived on now in the comic book adaptations as also. And even I'd say, like Batman 66. I'd love to talk about that and do some of the comic adaptations.

>> Guido: Yeah, Thereman 78 and Batman 89. Yeah.

>> Rob: And I know of course Elliott will murder us if he's not on the Superman the movie episode.

>> Elliot: Just watch. I just finished today the Donner cut. I hadn't seen it since it first came out. Richard Donner cut.

>> Rob: Well, and speaking of Superman, I also mentioned earlier that I loved doing that Silver Age comic and I'd love to also do some more Silver Age comics. One character or one line that jumped to mind was, you know, you mentioned us doing the amazing episode with other, other podcasts, and one of the things we did was we made up fake things that Jimmy Olsen had done and people had to guess which one wasn't real. And we were just at a comic book store yesterday where it was like one Jimmy Ellsen's getting attacked by crypto one of them. He's in drag and it's. I'd love just to do some Jimmy Olsen, do some Superman's girlfriend Lois Lane, which we covered one of those, but love to do some. All those imaginary stories, wacky imaginary stories.

>> Elliot: That'd be pretty fun. Well, I was going toa segue from Guidos also because first m on my list was Exiles. Because of what. I've never read it either.

>> Guido: So, I know you can read along with us.

>> Elliot: Yes. So that's on my list for you to cover. And my other two are just kind of boring, run of the mill superhero comics. But it's what I love to read. I would love to see you do more DC Elseworlds. I think DC is, as we've talked about before in our New York City Comic Con episode is just this all in. And the Absolute Universe, they're just knocking out of the park. Their quality, the art, the writing is probably the best in the mainstream business. and I would love to listen and hear, and explore more of their elseworlds from the past. And like you just suggested, check in with with the Absolute Universe in a year also.

>> Guido: And they have the new Elseworlds titles out now. There's the Dark Green Lantern. There's the sequel to Gotham by Gaslight. Well, the third sequel to Gotham by Gaslight. So yeah, there's Elsewhorld.

>> Rob: Feels like now we could cover pondering possibilities is very DC heavy. I know you mentioned Exiles, but other. But there's a lot of DC happening.

>> Guido: Not as much Marvel, it seems Exiles came up twice. So, we're even. We're even, even, though. Yes, all three of us are more excited for DC right now, but. Or even.

>> Elliot: Well, also DC just because they've leaned in the multiverse more. When I look at my comic bookshelf, most of the stories that I have, most of the trades and omnibuses are from standalone Superman and Batman stories. And so like, I would love to cover All Star, Superman and Superman. Peace on Earth. These just work without continuity. There's these standalone stories and that's on my list as well. And lastly is, I think. Have you touched on this or not? Or maybe we just talked about it. Is, DC's new. I mean, sorry, DC. Marvel's new ultimate line.

>> Guido: we only referred to it when we were talking about Absolute because, we were talking about the regeneesis of the Ultimate Universe, but we haven't covered any of the new Ultimate Universe and we barely covered the original Ultimate Universe, which will probably stay that way. But the new one is worth covering.

>> Elliot: Yeah. And Ultimate Spider man just was one of my favorite. It's comics. Comic, series of the year. And, I want to just explore that more and see where that's going. And it's kind of fun too. And to also juxtapose it to the original. And what makes some of these work better and what makes them maybe not as exciting would be fun to explore.

>> Guido: Yeah. Well, we've got our work cut out for us, but we're staying on that every other week schedule, so it'll take us some time, but I think that's a wrap. That is a wrap on our 150th, though, with bonus episodes. More like 155th episode. Thank you, dear watchers, for listening. Tell us what we should be covering in the meantime. I have been Guido, and I have.

>> Elliot: Been Rob, and I've been the love child of Chris Evans.

>> Guido: And our reading list, which is a watching list today, is in the show notes. Follow us on all social media.

>> Rob: Deer Watchers leave us a five star review wherever you listen. And we'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.

>> Guido: In the meantime, keep pondering the possibilities.

>> Elliot: Thanks for having me, guys.

>> Rob: Love.