Dear Watchers: an omniversal comic book podcast

>> Rob: Did Santa bring you someone that's willing to share their Disney plus password with you? We'll find out. And welcome to Dear Watchers and omniversal comic book podcast, where we do a deep dive into the multiverse.

>> Guido: We are traveling with you through the stories and the worlds that make up an omniverse of fictional realities we all love. And your watchers on this journey are me donning. Well, that would spoil, actually, and I won't spoil yet, but I'm wearing a very specific armor that looks really cool.

>> Rob: Guido and me, robotu. That sounds like a stick song, but, yeah.

>> Guido: It sounds too much like a robot. Obviously like a robot.

>> Rob: Maybe we'll see that in a future episode. But before we dive in deeper, Guido, what's happening in our little section of the multiverse?

>> Guido: Well, happy new year. This is our, last episode of 2023, though it's really out at the end of 2023, so I expect most of our listeners will be hearing it at the start of 2024. Either way, it's time to celebrate the new year, and it's been so much fun in 2023, celebrating our hundredth episode. And here we are at, ah, 124 with all of our listeners excited to look ahead to the new year.

>> Rob: Well, before we look ahead to the new year, let's look back at 2023. Guido, was there something you really loved in 2023?

>> Guido: There was. I fell totally in love. And it's so cool. Even just this morning at 06:00 a.m.. I texted you and Elliot. You were only a few feet away from me, and I texted you and Elliot about my excitement because I watched a YouTube video, went down a rabbit hole because I fell in love with Doctor who. And I'm so late to this game. You and I both are so late.

>> Rob: Only like 50, 60 years, even though.

>> Guido: In the modern incarnation, we're 20 years late. It's kind of, remarkable to me. Both of us saw episodes of the reboot, maybe a handful at most, and obviously knew about it because it's so present in geek culture. But this was our first time watching it. We watched the 60th anniversary specials, in part because we love David Tennant, in part because we love Russell T. Davis, the creator, who's returned, in part because we were really excited to see Shuti Agawa, a queer black doctor who. We watched some, whitaker, but, the specials got me into it. Shooty's Christmas episode got me into it. Oh, my God. It's like early days of MCU. There's a mythology I want to learn about you. And I collect vhs tapes. We just had a vhs tape of, like a who or sixty s Doctor who episode and it came on and it's normally something I would be like, oh, no, I can't handle this. I don't want to see this. And now I'm like, ooh, let's watch all these bizarre old episodes that might be terrible, but have to do with now the Time Lords and the war. And I'm like, oh, my God, I want to know it all. So I loved falling in love with Doctor who, and I'm a Hoovian now, officially.

>> Rob: Congratulations. yeah, you have your scarf and your bow tie and your floppy hat right now. Definitely leather jacket.

>> Guido: I wish I could pull off Shooty's kilt from the Christmas special episode. How about you? What's something you loved in 2023?

>> Rob: Yeah, well, maybe we'll hear more about Doctor who in just 30 seconds. But something I loved in 2023 was we watch a lot of movies, I think, throughout the year, but sometimes seeing a lot of superhero movies that does, take up a good amount of space. And I just think there was a lot of strong movies that were not superhero movies this year. I'm sure you and I have not seen nearly as many movies as some other people, but just off the top of my head from Barbie, which of course, took the nation by storm, and then movies that a lot of people didn't see, like rotting in the sun, and shortcomings, which I love, based on a graphic novel, I love that. Past lives.

>> Guido: Past lives. Oh, my God. Remarkable.

>> Rob: Yeah, there's been just a lot of really great and movies that aren't maybe a critical movie, but stuff like Joyride, which I just thought was one of the funniest movies I've seen in a really long time. So there was just a lot of stuff this year that I don't think it all caught the attention because there's just so much media out there and some of its space is taken up by big things like the MCU. But I just thought this movie consumed.

>> Guido: With critiquing the things like MCU.

>> Rob: Exactly.

>> Guido: There's even just like page. I mean, it's not column inches anymore, of course, but there's just content that's about media, is being consumed by all those huge things that everyone thinks gets clicks or do get clicks, and therefore you lose a lot of this stuff that's happening that I feel like even 15 years ago you would have heard a lot more about. And that's really a shame. And I hope that that starts to change somehow.

>> Rob: Yeah. And I think there's good services like a shutter or something like that, that is highlighting maybe a horror movie that's not going to get a big wide release or something like that. So I'm looking more towards those kind of platforms and going, oh, is this highlighting it here? Or certain podcasts that I do like to follow and said, oh, they said this was movie was good. So I'm looking more to them because as you said, the big mainstream media is. So much of it is taken up by the stuff that's gobbling all the oxygen in the room.

>> Guido: Yeah, well, we were warned about media conglomerates decades ago and here we are. So, something we're both excited about in 2024. We didn't plan this, but it's an easy one.

>> Rob: Doctor who.

>> Guido: Yes, we both decided to say Doctor who. I don't have anything else to say except I can't wait for the season to start. I'm glad it's not until may so that we have plenty of time to continue our rewatch of the modern series. Maybe a little bit of dabbling in the old series and just reading and consuming everything I can about the mythos.

>> Rob: Well, and you said the MCU, and I think you're right, because the tone really reminds me of MCU when it's done well, where it's funny, it's got that serious angle to it. But what I think both you and I have found is even just diving in, not knowing too much about the series as a whole, we still have become so emotionally attached to it in a way that we haven't been to the recent MCU movies. And I think just because Russell T. Davies is a, genius. Yes.

>> Guido: And the performers are amazing.

>> Rob: Totally.

>> Guido: I will say one difference. Last Doctor who comment for now.

>> Rob: I'm sure we'll start talking about it.

>> Guido: Until this officially becomes a Doctor who podcast. But one last comment that I think is different, and maybe there are exceptions, like it's a little bit like Kamala Khan, which is why everyone loved Kamala so much.

>> Rob: Hm.

>> Guido: I have noticed how each Doctor, from Christopher Eccleston, who we watched, to the David Tennant episodes, to shooty now, and I'm sure it's going to be true for Jody and Peter Capaldi, and perhaps it's true before them. They're just joyful, kind characters, and it's not a character you see a lot even in the MCU, which is not a dark or cynical world. It's been disneyfied in all the ways that we'd expect. And it's not filled with a lot of sarcasm, but enough that you don't find these characters who just smile and say hi and stop on their adventure to talk to a fan or talk to someone. And again, Miss Marvel might be the most recent or only exception I can think of in the MCU. But it's something I love about Doctor who, and it is something, I think, that is different about Doctor who from the other superhero stories. Out.

>> Rob: Totally, totally agree. Well, I'm sure we'll get back, especially since, one of the recent episodes was, in fact, based on a comic. So tie it into comics somehow. But if you are joining us for the first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse today. Origins of the story, exploring multiversity, and pondering possibilities. So thank you for coming along on the ride.

>> Guido: And remember, leave us a five star review wherever you're listening to us. Find us on all social media except x at Dear Watchers. Mostly Instagram and threads and Facebook. And we're also on coffee. You can go support us there if you're interested. Dearwatchers.com.

>> Rob: And with that, dear Watchers, welcome to episode 124. And let's check out what's happening in the omniverse with our travels. Today's alternate universe. And today, we have shaved our heads and donned our blue and white tunics to answer the question, what if we ranked what if series two and tried to better understand the MCU multiverse with it?

>> Guido: Yes. A question about us this time around, although I don't fully understand the costume change that you set that up with.

>> Rob: Where Uwatu, like, exploring the.

>> Guido: Oh, see, I thought you were referencing, like.

>> Rob: Shave the head. That's what.

>> Guido: Yeah, so the guy who welcomes her to the, true. I got a little confused. Okay, so the earth that we're exploring today are nine different earths. Kind of. I guess it's like eight different earths. arguably, all these earths are actually, though, linked via, the Earth 6116, though the MCU version. They're part of phase five, part of the multiverse saga, and they came out daily in what if season two. Let's talk about that release schedule real quick for a moment. We're going to get all into the story in our next segment, so let's pause. the release schedule I loved. We didn't take advantage of it, but I loved it.

>> Rob: Yeah, well, it reminded me, too, of an advent calendar coming out around the holiday time. So you got a little treat every day. If you were following along.

>> Guido: Yeah. So I think it's a cool model to not do the drop all at once. Binge but not do, of course, the weekly, which I think most of us are not patient enough for anymore.

>> Rob: Well, for this kind of show especially, I think if you're trying to build tension over the course of a serialized story, but when you're telling mostly standalone anthology stories, there's really no need to have that gap.

>> Guido: Yeah. So in our segments today, we'll look at the season, we'll give it a little bit of a review. We'll rank our episodes, then we will examine the multiversal arc of the series, and then we're going to ponder some possibilities, figure out what we hope for the future through that. We also consulted with Elliot of Elliot comic art, who couldn't be here, but get ready for an asynchronous crossover where we're the messengers. That sounds as thrilling as some of the episodes of this season of what if. But you'll hear Elliot's, comments throughout, just spoken by us. So before we get in.

>> Rob: Yeah. So let's talk about our backgrounds with what if. This, of course, started as exclusively a what if podcast. So we definitely have some backgrounds with.

>> Guido: And so you can go back and listen to a whole lot of other episodes. If you go to deerwatchers.com, there's actually a function where you can search our past episodes. I'm sure you can figure that out on Apple podcasts and Spotify and everywhere else too. But if you search for what if, you'll see that our first episode is the first issue of what if. So we talk about our background with the comics there, and then we did an episode on the first season of what if. The tv show we actually did covered it a few different ways so you can go back and hear there. But what I'd say is we're both very familiar with the what if structure. You've read dozens of the what if comics. I've read every what if comic ever, including the current ones. And the tv show. We both were very excited for season one and watched it. And we were much less excited for season two and watched it. Yes, for both of us.

>> Rob: Yes, totally. And it feels like it was a lifetime ago that we were talking about how much media, and of course, it is a big talking point about how much MCU and stuff there is in general. But yeah, watching this and seeing some of the episodes that were tying back to season one, I was like, oh, yeah, I kind of remember the episodes that didn't have anything to do.

>> Guido: With the big over two years ago. So season one was August 2021. and they did a weekly release then, so it ran through October 2021, but it was over two years ago. That is a lifetime. Took a while to get to this season, and I think it's going to be a lot shorter to the next one, but we'll catch up on that in our last segment.

>> Rob: Yes. So let's jump into our multiverse of origins of the story.

>> Guido: Right now on this very show, you're.

>> Rob: Going to get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago, and we should say that from now on, there will be spoilers of various sorts.

>> Guido: We're going to spoil the whole season of what if. So if you haven't seen it and you don't want to be spoiled, pause. Come back after you've watched it, because we're going to be going out of order to talk about the whole season.

>> Rob: And that is what if series two, episodes one through nine on Disney plus from December 2023.

>> Guido: Yes. And so this is produced by Marvel Studios Animation, though there are a number of different companies, flying bark productions doing the animation and others, and it is primarily head writer A. C. Bradley's show, although there is a story editor credited throughout, who I think probably played a rather important role. And then it's directed mostly by Brian Andrews. Again, it's an ensemble over nine episodes, but we want to talk about them all. So just giving you the broad strokes. And of course, Jeffrey Wright as Uatu, the voice of Uatu in every episode. And we get a number, apparently over 30 MCU familiar voices to us back, as well as some really great voice acting from people who are covering for those who don't return or for the new characters that we are meeting for the first time.

>> Rob: We're going to rank do is.

>> Guido: Yeah.

>> Rob: Choice.

>> Guido: So let's share our one through nine. There were nine episodes in series two. We ranked them. We'll share our lists, and then we'll talk about them briefly, episode by episode, just getting at the broad strokes. So your number nine.

>> Rob: My number nine is what if Peter Quill attacked Earth's mightiest heroes?

>> Guido: Mine is number nine. What if Nebula joined the Nova Corps?

>> Rob: And then my number eight. What if Nebula joined the Nova Corps?

>> Guido: My eight. What if happy Hogan saved Christmas?

>> Rob: Seven. What if strange supreme intervened?

>> Guido: My seven. What if Peter Quill attacked Earth's mightiest heroes?

>> Rob: Number six. What if Hela found the ten rings?

>> Guido: My six. What if Iron man crashed into grandmaster.

>> Rob: Number five, what if happy Hogan saved Christmas?

>> Guido: My five, what if Captain Carter fought the Hydro stomper?

>> Rob: Number four, what if Captain Carter fought the hydro stomper?

>> Guido: My four, what if Hela found the ten rings? Number three episodes.

>> Rob: Yes. What if Iron man crashed into grandmaster? Then, number two, what if Kahori reshaped the world? And number one, what if the Avengers assembled in 16 two and my top.

>> Guido: Three were what if the Avengers assembled in 16 two? Number two, what if Kahori reshaped the world? And number one, what if strange supreme intervened? So we've got some discrepancies there. I was surprised, actually, at our discrepancies. So why don't we get started with your list back to front and talk about the episodes? So, starting at the bottom.

>> Rob: Yes. So, starting at the bottom, what if Peter Quill attacked Earth's mightiest heroes? I thought this was a fun episode to see a lot of returning people, Michael Douglas, Kurt Russell. Like, gosh, the cast on this whole series is amazing that they got so many of these people back. And I like that there was this strong what if question for this. Like, Yondu actually dropping off Peter, with ego. But I didn't find that there was too much difference here, almost, to the actual ego m story in the movie. And I wasn't sure why these other characters, like Lawrence Fishburne's character and everything, why they were all thrown into this particular.

>> Guido: Was the. I thought the cool part. So this is the second episode of the season, and you ranked it nine. I ranked it seven. A little higher because I thought it was just cool to have, Annette Benning's character, Lawson, and Lawrence Fishburne's character join with Hank and Howard in 1988 to essentially form an early iteration of the Avengers on this alternate earth. So I liked that aspect of this, the Peter Quill story. I didn't really care that much. It's just a powerful, misunderstood kid who they think is going to destroy the universe and the rest of it, though, I sort of liked that they used it as a vehicle to assemble this team. I think when the show works well, it's pulling in a lot of people and showing us something that's, like, a bit fun. And I think this episode started to do that. It's my number seven. So I didn't love it, but I think it started to play with that.

>> Rob: So my number, eight is what if Nebula joined the Nova Corps? And I know you ranked this one as your lowest. This is your number nine.

>> Guido: It was. Well, first of all, I think putting it first, and part of me assumes they put it first because they knew it was among the weaker of the outings. I just think it doesn't work as a what if very well, and it's not very fun, and it doesn't do anything interesting. So it's very uninspired to me. I'm not sure why it exists. It doesn't tell us anything about nebula even having Glenn close be in it. Like, they don't do anything fun with her. the fact that Nebula joins the Nova Corps just because Ronan beats it, that's the point of divergence. So this question is actually not the most interesting part of that story. I almost would have rather, like, what if Thanos was defeated earlier on and then seen that Nebula became a point of the Novocor and stuff. So it felt uninspired to me. It felt like representative, of the weaker things in both season one and two of this show, for me, which is when it's like. I don't know, it doesn't make sense to me. Nothing clicks into place.

>> Rob: Yeah. What I liked the best about it was the tone. I liked this kind of film noir tone, blade runner kind of almost thing that they were going for. Nebula is a good character for that, but Nebula works really well when she's playing off of. When she's the straight woman to a wackier character. And you didn't quite get that. You got a little bit of it with Howard deduct. I love the joke where it's rock, paper, scissors, and it's Groot, Korg, and meag. They're rock, paper, scissors. So that was fun. But, yeah, I think I agree with all the things. I don't know why it had to exist, which is kind of such a fundamental thing to what ifs in general.

>> Guido: Yeah. And it feels the least connected to the larger arc of this season, which every other episode has a deeper connection to the arc. And so I don't know, maybe it was left over from season one and they didn't finish it in time, because I think that's true for another episode here. So I'm not sure, but not the strongest outing. Let's keep going up your list to the biggest point of divergence we have.

>> Rob: Yeah. So my number seven was what if strange supreme intervened? This is the last. This is my number one and your number one. So let me hear why you liked it so much, I guess.

>> Guido: so I was not enjoying this season for those first few episodes, as you can tell from my rank order. And it felt uninspired and I didn't see the connections or what was being built toward. And then you hit number one, and you're like, oh, I thought all of the pieces, from the pieces we haven't talked about yet, from Kahori to the ten rings to, obviously, all the captain Carter stuff, scarlet witch Doctor Strange, all of those elements start to come together, and I don't care. The strange motivation felt like, and Elliot actually said this to us, felt like it was something we'd seen in multiverse of madness and felt like a bit of a retread of that. I didn't care as much because you're watching that episode for the fun of when she releases all the characters from the prison, and you have all these characters, some of whom you've never met before, just looking wacky and doing stuff, some of whom we met in the first season, and I don't care about them, but it was a fun, epic battle. And then her and Kahori's team up was great. And then I just thought the climax with each of these alternate versions we've met giving her their weapon of power was so cool because we've done the Infinity gems. So how do you one up the Infinity gems? And it's the infinity Gems plus Mjolnir, plus Odin's sword, plus Hela's helmet. Like, you put all these things together and it's like, oh, wow, that is the ultimate Captain Carter. So I liked that moment. I thought that was cool. So I liked the climax a lot. It got me very excited for even stuff in the first season I didn't like. It got me a little more excited about going back into it. Not that I think I necessarily will, but why didn't you like this episode?

>> Rob: Well, I think it's because you said, oh, you like the climax. To me, this episode felt like all climax other than the first few minutes of it, which is kind of setting up a mystery that it's very quickly solved. The rest of it's one big battle. It kind of felt like that final 30 minutes of almost every MCU movie where there's just a nonstop battle that's upping and blah, getting bigger, and it's super fun to watch, I think, especially because of the animation. It was great that they were able to pull in all this, but it was like, oh, no, I'm not getting the story. As soon as we get Captain Carter and Kahori together, Kahori is just like, no, strange is the villain. And then they get zapped in and strange says, yeah, I'm the villain, and that's it. There's no mystery there. There's no character development. There's not a lot of humor that's come through. I think it's definitely, if you're a big fan, it's like putting together the ultimate action figure at the end, and that can be fun.

>> Guido: I can't wait to buy that action figure. Hasbro better make a Marvel legends of that. Peggy Carter and I will be all over that.

>> Rob: But I was thinking a little bit more of almost like what James Gunn was saying. It's like with the cameo porn, where it's a little bit like, oh, look, there's old head, and that's what gets you excited. But at the end of the day, are you really getting anything of substance out of it?

>> Guido: Yeah, no, I don't think so. Although I will say, in terms of substance, I liked the sort of twist at the end, which was that when she's with Uatu and she's in the world and she sees Christine Palmer, we discover that strange, in fact, was able to forge the world. That's his motivation. If you didn't watch it and you're listening and don't care about the spoilers, strange's motivation in being the villain and destroying all these, people from different universes, both the heroes and the villains, is to forge, use his forge to create his world again and bring Christine back. He ends up sacrificing himself, pulling the demon possessing him down into the forge. And we find out that in that world, he's never born. And so I thought that was nice. It was a subtle emotional bead. It wasn't like a tear jerker, but it was just, I liked when you, Atu tells her, like, yeah, Christine is alive in this world, tells Peggy, but Stephen Strange was never born, and that's what he did with that. So I liked that. And then, of course, the end where Uatu brings Peggy into the omniversal gallery, if you will, and she's sort of elevated outside of the worlds and is like, wait, let's make a few detours on my way home. And then, of course, the final moment, which we're going to get to in our next segment. So I'll hold on to that final climactic moment or epilogue or whatever of that. So let's keep going up your list.

>> Rob: So my number six is, what if Hela found the ten rings and ranked.

>> Guido: At number four on my list? Episode seven of the nine.

>> Rob: Yeah, about in the middle on both of our lists. And I think for me, this is completely because of Kate Blanchett.

>> Guido: She's so fun and she gets to be so sarcastic. Like, they wrote those lines just for her to spit them out. And I love that.

>> Rob: And she's kind of given the classic Tony Stark doctor Strange story of suddenly she doesn't have powers and she's going through the training montages and kind of all that stuff, I guess, kind of thinking to what we were saying with the nebula episode, it was like I was struggling a bit why this had to exist other than to give a great spotlight to a fun character and a good actor. So I enjoyed it, but I just couldn't quite place the what if question aspect of it.

>> Guido: Yeah, I agree with that. The question really doesn't make a lot of sense. What if Hela found the ten rings? That's not totally what happens because it's not like she takes them in and then when she becomes, with Wenwu, the group who are fighting for people to be free, I thought that was really cool. And I think that's why I like this a little more than you. Because at least what it did is it totally transformed the arc of the character. It's a hella down on a different path. And I thought that was really cool, even down to her white costume, which, of course, I just love the costume changes in these episodes. but I appreciate that it was a little more ambitious, a little bolder, and had her be a different character than the one we know. Because when what if works really well, it's these characters that we know different. Yes, that's true. I think this episode did that. So that's why I ranked it a little higher.

>> Rob: So my number five is what if Happy Hogan saved Christmas? The Christmas episode.

>> Guido: Yeah. This is, my ranking number eight. And it's episode number three in the series. So I did not like it as much as you. You can lead us off on this one.

>> Rob: Well, it's a die hard parody kind, so very much I liked, I like that aspect. It also has the return of one of my all time favorite MCU characters performances, which is Sam, Rockwell. Yes. And it was like, watching it, it was like, why has he not been back in live action since that movie? He's so fun. And yeah, he's a little wasted here, but he was very fun to see him back. And I liked John Favreau, Kat Dennings, rapport. This is definitely, and I think we'll talk more about this later in the episode. This would have been probably a really fun 15 minutes episode rather than 30 minutes episode. so it definitely overstayed its welcome. But I liked what was in there.

>> Guido: Yeah, I think for me, I didn't like that it was doing die hard. I think some of that is definitely the anti part of me, which I try to suppress, but the part of me that's just anti how obsessed people are with that movie and especially with it being a Christmas movie and that being something trotted out every single year in the world of the Internet, which I don't care. It's a Christmas movie. Great, more power to you. you love it. Great, more power to you. But there's such like an obsession and, just culture around it. And so I think pulling on it in this made me feel like this is a little broy for me. I am not too into it. So it was fine. I think one of the things that we'll definitely talk more about in the third segment is, on display here, which is I wanted more character development on Happy from this episode. It's transformation for happy, like the Hela episode was for her. And I think you get much more of Hela's character than you do happy's in this.

>> Rob: Totally agreed.

>> Guido: That's why it's lower on my list. What's my number for you?

>> Rob: Four is what if Iron man crashed into Grandmaster?

>> Guido: This is my number six. And it is the fourth episode of the series. And I would rank it higher just for Rachel House, honestly, as Topaz, if she had been in the episode more, it would have been higher on my list. But we both have it squarely in the middle. So you start us off on this one.

>> Rob: Oh, yeah. The whole episode is Jeff Goldblum and Rachel House together. The return of these characters, we need.

>> Guido: A series of them or something so fun.

>> Rob: Even like the ending where he gets liquefied and he's still talking and this is just so fun. You know, it's kind of funny going back to us talking about becoming new Whovians. There's a very doctor who kind of element to the Grandmaster.

>> Guido: Cartoonish alien.

>> Rob: Yeah. So I love that they kind of then crammed all this other stuff on top of it, which was the stuff I didn't really love. Like the Gamora story, which feels like it should have been in a separate episode.

>> Guido: This might be confirmed out there. I not as obsessed with behind the scenes stuff on this. I think this episode is supposed to be from the first season. It was supposed to because we met that Gamora. I think there was something in the production that got stalled out, and so they had to move it to the second season. And so that's why they then had to create the little uatu, narrated wraparound at the beginning saying, you met this character, but let's see where she came from, which is not something he usually does in an episode, is set it up like that. So I think this episode was shoehorned in. I think if it had been in the first season and in sequence, it would have been fun because it actually would have just felt like a grandmaster episode. But watching it here and having it be framed around this nebula, gamora, who is, like, barely a part of the plot and who I don't care about, took away a little bit for me from it, which is why it's a little lower.

>> Rob: Totally. And it was also giving me, I m know you don't know this movie as well, but it was giving me major pod racing, phantom menace, a little too much pod racing. They just needed.

>> Guido: Yeah, anytime you have a bunch of alien vehicles racing, I think of all those kinds of movies where that happens.

>> Rob: And how interminably long it is in that movie, it was like, okay, I'm getting. Yeah. Ah. Number three is what if Captain Carter fought the Hydra Stomper?

>> Guido: And this is number five for me, if for no other reason, then I just liked other things better. So no lower for a particular reason on this episode. And this is episode number five in the sequence. And it's sort of the start of the big plot now because it.

>> Guido: Gives us back Captain Carter, who we met already, and we'll talk a lot more about in our next segment and then kicks off that sequence of things. I thought one of the best parts of this episode, which, again, I really liked. I just liked the other ones more, was how much it was an homage to, especially the Winter Soldier. It was really an homage to that movie because you have, like, Peggy pulling up to Natasha and picking her up, when she's out jogging. They talk a lot about pop culture and movies that Peggy needs to see or Natasha needs to. And so all those little references to, either the Sam Steve relationship or the Steve Bucky relationship were fun to have on display here with Peggy and Natasha. So I liked that part.

>> Rob: Well, I think a lot kind of going off what you're saying. I think it's so much the chemistry of the two of them, Haley Atwell and Belle, who's taken over as, Natasha here, is just fun. And that's what you want to see in all these, when you think about oh, what do we love about the MCU? It's when two characters have that kind of repartee, and that was missing from a lot of these other episodes. And it's really heavy here, even though it's a Captain Carter episode, really. Natasha is just as big of a character, and they play really well together, and they both have these things from their past. Steve for Peggy and the Red Room for Natasha coming back. And so that's all super fun there. And I loved also some of the creepy things, too. Like, there's the whole town a little almost, Wandavision in that way with all the town full of robots.

>> Guido: It reminded me a lot of the fallout video games, actually.

>> Rob: Oh, totally.

>> Guido: Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. I think my other complaint, I agree. I liked all that. But my only other complaint goes along with what we were saying with Sam Rockwell and Kate Blanchett, is you've got Rachel vice here doing, like, first of all, there's some aspect of the show that feels like it's just they realize there's all these people who they've squandered in the live action MCU who are amazing actors and who we would want to see play around a whole lot more. So this series felt like, hey, let's bring back that awesome person. But in this case, I wanted her to be Iron maiden. Why wasn't she Iron Maiden? I can't quite understand why you're going to bring her back and not lean into her comic book character, get her to wear the metal mask, get her to wear her purple clothes.

>> Rob: And it's not, you know, I can see, I always complain in the movies, oh, they don't have them in their mask because they don't want to squander having that famous actor. This is a cartoon, so you can actually, Rachel White doesn't even really look too much like her. I don't know.

>> Guido: It's a fun kickoff, but, yeah, a little lower for me.

>> Rob: Yeah. And our number two. My number two is also your number two, which is what if Kahori shaped the world?

>> Guido: Reshaped the world, reshaped the world. This is episode number six of the series. And so, of course, this is unique for a few reasons. The entire episode is not in English, which is extraordinary. So it is in Mohawk and some Spanish. And it introduces a Mohawk character who is non canonical from the comics. Kahori does not exist. This origin does not exist. so why is it number two for both of us? You start.

>> Rob: In terms of storytelling. I don't think it was doing anything revolutionary. But I think what it was doing, very classic and doing it really well. I think it was just a really story, well executed origin story where you completely kind of got where she's going from in this world. Would you leave paradise then? And then needing to actually find the power there, everything felt fresh, even though it's stuff that we've seen before.

>> Guido: Totally. And some of that is because it's native american people rising up against conquistadors. It's a young woman rising up. Right. So there are aspects of it that are showing us cultures and people that we haven't seen. And so even though it's the archetypal origin story, that actually is what makes it work better, is it's the archetypal origin story, but run through this prism, and that's so cool to see. There's some lines she has in it that I imagine. I know that they were careful, and the writers worked closely with the Mohawk tribe in different ways. hopefully that was good. I don't know anything about it, but that's what they report doing. And there were some aspects of it where she would talk about, like, you've been too far removed from the bones of our ancestors. And I was like, oh, I wonder if that's an aspect of Mohawk people's culture. I think there were a few allusions she made to the earth or to wolves or to bones. And I was like, oh, I bet those are aspects of the culture that I don't know anything about. And it's cool to see be a part of this character's origin story. And the other thing about this episode I liked as a what if? Is it did use a single point of divergence. It used what if the tesseract ended up on earth at a different time, in a different way. So Odin throws it down and it lands in this lake, and that's what creates this tribe with powers. But then it goes off and tells a completely different story. untethered, unbound from the canon that we know. It just tells a totally different story. And I think that's why it also gets to be so fun and expansive.

>> Rob: And I liked pulling in this aspect of the conquistadors are looking for the fountain of youth. So this is all something we know so much from mythology and history. And there is this lake, and it actually does give you eternal youth, although not in the way that they think it does. so I love that they're taking this thing that we all know about and now retrofitting it into a superhero story.

>> Guido: Yeah, I agree. That is fun. My one complaint about that is that they are spanish speaking conquistadors, conquerors. And I think there's an aspect of that that, to me, feels like it could be also xenophobic, because it's a little easier than having british people be the villains. And the Mohawk tribe was located, and the tesseract is shown dropping in areas that were predominantly the British and the French, who were massacring and killing native american people. So it felt a little od to me, though. The fountain of youth story, I know is bound up in probably not, true, but tales of, like, Ponce de Leon and spanish people. And by all means, I am not defending spanish people. They were also horrible and did absolutely horrible, atrocious things, including genocide. But in this case, I think it probably should have been british people. And it made me a little fearful that there was some xenophobia that if you had british people as the villains, people would not respond to Kahori defeating them at the end quite as positively. And so I don't like that aspect of it. But, yeah, it didn't take away from enough for me because I still ranked it number two and loved it.

>> Rob: Well, my number one is pretty high on your list as well, is what if the Avengers assembled in 16 two?

>> Guido: Yes, and it's Elliot's favorite episode of the series, he tells us. And this was episode number eight. So the second to last episode, picking up from the end of the previous episode, where we get the scarlet witch pulling Captain Carter into the 16 two universe, and then setting up, of course, the strange supreme finale in the next one. So this was an interesting one. I ranked it a little lower than you. I'll start because, what I think it didn't do. We haven't covered 16 two on this podcast. One day, we will cover 16 two, the Neil Gaiman series, which is essentially an Elseworlds marvel. It's not really a what if. There's not a point of divergence. I think this episode, it felt like almost a sequel. It felt like we met the 16 two world before, but we haven't. And so I wanted more 16 two world, and there was too much of the plot of the displaced man, who was Steve and Peggy having to deal with that. And I loved the ethical quandary she's in, but I felt like the 16 two world was backgrounded because of that. And that made me a little upset because there was so much potential in that 16 two world with. I, know what you're going to say about Tom Hiddleston being one of the huge highlights of it. And so I would have liked a 16 two episode and then this episode.

>> Rob: Yeah, I can see that. I think, I could definitely have more of that world. What I think is so familiar, though, is because the characters are playing, and I haven't read 16 two. So this, I'm sure is in the comic, but I love that there is this element of the characters tapping into these archetypes. So Steve is the Robin Hood character, and Scarlet Witch is kind of the witch that's serving the king, and Thor's the king. And so all these things, we know that so well, so they all feel so familiar, doesn't really need to be introduced to us. Fury is the guy behind the throne, so we know that from seeing so many other. And, yeah, even, like, instead of making giving winter, soldier a, sniper rifle, he's got a crossbow and he's firing. So we know all those kind of things. So I think I love that. And I think the other thing I really loved about this, going back to my comment before, was the camaraderie. I think everyone played off of each other really well. This is what I. Yeah, it was a fun episode. I want to see the drunken, sarcastic Tony Stark making comments to other people, and it felt fun. And you mentioned Tom Hiddleston, who I thought was, like, so fun in this. I loved how they sprinkle Loki throughout this, as this pretentious actor, and he's talking about Othello, but it's really all about his character of iago. It was like everything I wanted from Loki in Loki, the tv series season two that I didn't get.

>> Guido: Yeah, for sure. He was busy cracking, in jokes in the voice recording for this episode and didn't do it on screen there. So I think that's our analysis of the nine episodes. Our ranking listeners can let us know if they agree, but we have a lot more to dig into in our next segments.

>> Rob: Yes. So without further ado, let's explore some multiversity. What if it's the final straw that destroys this universe? What if, when the universe resets, you're trapped here forever? What if you die? What if? What if? What if. So what did we learn about the MCU's multiverse? If we learned anything at all?

>> Guido: It's unclear if we learned anything at all, but I think there's a few things that we should talk about. Let's start with the one that has the least to do with the multiverse, which is Uatu's. Personality and role, and I think it has the least to do with the multiverse, because I don't think it will matter. They position him, as outside of the world, even more than in the comics. In the comics, obviously, he does intervene a lot, and he does get to know characters a lot, but in this, I think he lives outside the world. But this season really amped up his role. And I loved, as soon as Captain Carter heard him, that was so much fun. And she was like, wait, I can hear you. And he was like, wait, you can hear, like, it was really a, fun back and forth that then they had. So I liked that they used uatu a little bit more here. In different ways. He didn't intervene. He stayed a watcher. Maybe we'll build to an arc in a third season or a future season where he has this. Does he intervene and then the other watchers turn on him?

>> Rob: Well, he intervenes a bit in series one, too, I think, but I don't know. No one ever then turns, against him.

>> Guido: Yeah. Calls him out on it.

>> Rob: Yeah, I think you're right, and I think I like that there was a fourth wall, breaking a meta ness to it, especially in that moment you're calling out, where there's almost semi acknowledging it as a tv show, because why else would he be narrating these things? It's almost like, oh, could the whole thing be a giant multiverse where everyone is animated? I was kind of almost thinking that.

>> Guido: Yeah, so that's Uatu. Then the other two things I think we should talk about are Captain Carter in the multiverse, and then, of course, the big finale, and what we see in that final shot and what that could mean. So let's start with Captain Carter. She's really interesting in the multiverse here. And Elliot actually was saying in some of his comments that he shared with us that it felt like the season just was supposed to be a captain Carter and the multiverse series. but that they kept it a what if, for whatever reason, which is true, she's peppered in a few episodes and then pulled out and really controls the narrative arc at that point. So I'm not clear why, but she's also the only character that we've seen both animated and live in terms of multiversal. So I don't know. Do you think, how important will she be in the MCU? How important is her role? We saw her in the Illuminati. That version got killed, but that was a version of Captain Carter. Will we see her on screen again. Is she going to be Atu's assistant? I know we're going to speculate on the future in the third segment a bit, but let's talk about Peggy now.

>> Rob: I don't think we're going to see her live action again. I think the what if series, and we'll talk more about it in a second, but the fact that she will be coming back for series three I think just does show. People want to see this character, and this is going to be the outlet in which they will have this character exist is in animated form because they won't do a tv show around it or they won't do a movie around this character. And I don't think because the Steve story is more or less done in live action, I don't think you would see her then in a live action form. Since Natasha and Steve, the characters we're thinking of her being connected to are.

>> Guido: I agree. I agree. And I like the use of her. I'm curious if it was a response to her popularity or if it was planned all along, who knows? Because they certainly had enough time in the development of the second season that it could have been retooled a bit. But it's fun that she's essentially creating her own exiles in the comic book. Who are the exiles? And she gets to lead them. I would enjoy that in the third season, like what Elliot's saying, if that just becomes the show, I would actually be okay with that. Abandon the what if questions. Or I guess you could force a what if question on every episode. We do that for our podcast, and they could just have Peggy going to meet people, going on different adventures in different universes. Sometimes one of the exiles could connect with her and travel with her, and sometimes it'll be new people she meets and deals with. And I think that would be a fun way to shift the show and rebrand it.

>> Rob: You mean, so you're making her into the doctor. She travels around different times and picks up various companions throughout her. no, but I agree. I think there's definitely going to be a lot of room for her as a character to be there. And I think she just strikes the right tone in terms of she can be sarcastic, but she's not a Tony Stark, she can be serious as well. So she's that perfect kind of MCU protagonist, I think.

>> Guido: Yeah. So the big multiversal moment at the end, and some of this is going to lead us into pondering possibilities, but I know we have other questions to deal with first, but the moment at the end, of course, is she tells Uatu she wants to take some detours. And he says, yes, sure, of course. and they end up at the Loki tree. So they end up at, the newly formed multiverse that Loki has reconstructed and is embedded in the roots of. At the end of Loki series two. What did you think?

>> Rob: yeah, it was surprising.

>> Guido: Very surprising. Very surprising.

>> Rob: But I don't know if it was just there as a visual tease or if we're going to continue Loki's story in animated form. I don't think it's going to have anything to do with the MCU proper as.

>> Guido: Oh, I don't agree. I don't agree. And here's why. Because what we discussed back a few episodes ago when we talked about Loki series two, so go back and listen. Was, or what my theory was and why I loved that climax to a series that I was really underwhelmed by so much was that so much of the previous phase has been crisis and chaos. And that's true for what if also both of these seasons have been about the way that people who are moving across the multiverse are destroying it and disrupting it. And now what we talked about on that episode and what I think the tree represents is this next phase between now and secret wars in the MCU is a stable multiverse where characters will be able to move from universe to universe, but there's not going to be a destabilization. There's not going to be a impending crisis scenario. I think we'll build to that in secret wars. But right now, it's not going to be that. The nature of the multiverse is causing chaos. And this season even uses that trope, maybe, hopefully, one last time in the MCU. And now it sets up the possibility that, like, I said, we could get a captain Carter and the exiles, or we could get something where people just jump into different universes and we don't need there to be some. Stephen Strange is evil Lee trying to destroy the universe. Mega Ultron is trying to destroy the multiverse. We don't need that plot anymore. The multiverse can just be. And to me, that's what I think the tree was at the end here, and I think that's what links it to the MCU. I don't think it's going to go into the MCU live action of.

>> Rob: I think, now that you've explained it that way, I think I can definitely see it there. And maybe that if we do stick with Peggy as a de facto protagonist in series three of what if I could see her using that tree as her quantum leap kind of device to kind of go throughout all these different worlds. And if we're following her, and, yeah, I think that's definitely a possibility.

>> Guido: So I loved that they pulled that in a great link up. And we'll definitely be curious to see where it goes. Before we go ponder more possibilities, though, since we're exploring multiversity. Is there a world you want to spend more time in? I gave m my answer in our first segment, 16 two. For me. I would love to be in that. Is there an episode world in this season that you want to go back to?

>> Rob: Oh, definitely the same 16 two. I think we could do a whole show that takes place in the in between of that world or post that world that has nothing to do with then eventually the Doctor Strange and Hela. I would love to just explore those characters in that setting in even just a three episode miniseries or something like that.

>> Guido: You know what, Tonal? Or like a 15 minutes web series, like, do like 1015 minutes episodes. You know what, tonally, I could imagine it being like. And, being really good. We just watched an episode of Xena last week and I could see totally being very xena, where it's like, there's so many anachronisms in Xena. Like, you're not supposed to believe that it's actually taking place m when it's supposed to be. And so I think this would be fun. Like that.

>> Rob: Totally.

>> Guido: Just make it 16 two. But who cares? Have the characters be the characters we know and love and just play with the fact that they're living in this, whatever 16 two is known as. Not medieval, but whatever that era is, I don't even know.

>> Rob: I love that.

>> Guido: All right, on to our final segment.

>> Rob: Yes, we've been hinting at it already, so let's just ponder some possibilities. Will the future you describe be averted? Diverted. Diverted. So, Guido, what are we talking about for pondering possibilities?

>> Guido: Well, let's talk a little bit about the future of this show, and then we'll get into a, question we want asked. But season three has been confirmed, so if you haven't already seen it, there's actually a teaser out. It's not quite a trailer. It's a clip from a season three episode that clearly is in production if not done. And it says season three coming soon or streaming soon, but coming soon. So whatever that means, I can't imagine soon is that soon. They need to spread their content out, especially next year when there is much less content than we're used to. But this show clearly is not going to be another two, three year wait. And I think we can expect it next year. So what do we want from the show?

>> Rob: Well, one, thing I want, and I doubt this will happen, but one thing I would want is either. Yes, some of the episodes can be 30 minutes, like 16. Two, that felt, like, perfect. But I would love to see a 15 minutes episode or even a 60 minutes episode. Some of the ones that we mentioned, like the grandmaster episode, the happy Hogan episode, I think those could have been really great. 15 minutes episodes. cut out a lot of the plot, just have it be funny and jump m to the point there. Or sometimes I would love to see a longer episode that can really explore the drama. Like season one of this show had that super dark episode where Hank Pym is just, like, assassinating all the heroes, and it was really dark. And this season avoided that. There was no episode that got into that super dark territory. But I think if maybe you had a 60 minutes episode or something like that, we could live in that a little bit more.

>> Guido: Well, I think the longer episode links up to something I want to see, which is I want, if not every episode, then certainly a lot of them. So I'd say if we had this hybrid 15 and 60, the 15 minutes are the fun, silly. Like, let's just show something wild, like Thor's party episode from the first season.

>> Guido: The 60 minutes should be an episode that gives us a really good character arc. Because again, what I think went well in this series, when it went well, are the character arcs. I will highlight the Hela episode again because I just think it worked well for me because I know Hela. I like Hela. I'm interested in Hela, and this is a different Hela. So show me more. Tell me more about her. It helps me think about who she is in M our world, and it helps me just imagine and play with this other version of her. Where the nebula episode failed, or as I mentioned, the happy Hogan episode failed, to me, is you didn't get a lot of the character. It wasn't focused on, why is this nebula different? What does it mean that she's different? What is the impact of that difference? Or happy? You and I talked about when we watched that episode that him getting the powers could have been a really interesting character moment to understand. Does he want the powers? You pointed out he's the head of security for these superpowered superheroes. What does that even mean? And then if he gets the chance to hulk up, does he want it?

>> Rob: Does he want it? Does he want to give it away? Yeah.

>> Guido: If Tony wants to cure him, is he going to resist that? There could have been such great character beats with that, but the episode might have been too short. So that's where I think a longer episode, to me, might be an opportunity to give me.

>> Rob: But I think you could even get that into a 15 minutes episode. You could get the humor of it and still get happy being, wait, why am I the head of security for superheroes? I get this power. Do I want this power? And that could still be in a 15 minutes episode, I think, without expanding it to 15 minutes and getting my.

>> Guido: Desire for more character exploration and character arcs can happen no matter the length of the show, I want more of that. But I just think in terms of your suggestion that longer episodes could sometimes give the story room to breathe. Character could show up with that. And the other thing that I really want in the future of this show is more want. And I don't mean playfulness to mean lightness. I mean it to mean, like, creativity. And Elliot said this to us, that he wants them to play with characters that we haven't seen before. Like have Ghost Rider or Franklin Richards or the Inhumans show up? And those were some of his suggestions. And I agree with that. It's what makes the Kahori work really well. It's what, again, makes the hella work well. 16 two work well because they're just playing at that point with either new characters or characters we know. And I'd like to see more of that. And again, it doesn't mean I don't want a serious story. The Kahori has a lot of serious elements in it, but there's a playfulness in the construction of it that I think is really appealing. And some of the episodes lacked.

>> Rob: And I think we were both saying the parts that we liked the most about this series was the camaraderie, the playfulness of characters interacting together. And I think that is definitely something that we can have more. The little clip they have online for, the next season actually does have a bunch of that because it's David harbor and the Red Guardian and Sebastian Stan together. So I think that does have some potential.

>> Guido: It looks like they're doing like the Falcon and the Winter Soldier totally, very much guardian in the Winter Soldier.

>> Rob: And the thing I think I'd like to see more is a better grasp of the what if question. As we've talked a lot about if.

>> Guido: We stick with questions.

>> Rob: if we stick with questions, because I think we've talked a lot about on this show that sometimes, if the what if question is really, if the point of divergence is very clear, then it can tell a really great story. But, like, say, the happy Hogan episode, that doesn't even need to be a what if. Really, it could have just existed within the mainstream 6116 continuity, and a few of these other episodes could have kind of been there as well. So I think that I would love to see that really strong what if turning point. Point. I always think back, like, one of the perfect examples in the comics is, what if Spiderman decided to become the famous wrestler, and he went with that, and we pursue that because everyone knows that moment in Spiderman's story where he could have become a successful media figure. And where does the story go from there? I'd love to get into that on this show.

>> Guido: Yeah. And I think there can be exceptions to that. Like, 16 two is a good exception to that, where you can't have a point of divergence and tell that story. So I think the question that they titled the episode with works. What if the Avengers assembled in 16 two, but there's no point of divergence.

>> Rob: No, that's more of an else world.

>> Guido: Two it is that way. But I'm just saying I think that's okay to have those exceptions. But I agree with you. I think part of the problem, and I remember we talked about this in the first season, all those many years ago, is that the questions, and it's like what I said about the nebula episode in this season, the question doesn't totally make sense. What if she joined the Nova Corps? That's not actually the question we're exploring. That's not even the point of divergence. So why, the framing sort of doesn't add, certainly. And in some cases, takes away. But having said that, questions take away. Let's pose our own question.

>> Rob: Exactly.

>> Guido: That would be even better. So we each thought of one fantasy question for a third season episode. who's going first?

>> Rob: I'll go first. And I'd love. There's all these great comics of what if there's hundreds of them? Hundreds. So why not just adapt a comic? I'm not saying make it exactly the same, because they're going to want to retrofit it into the MCU, but there's all these great comics. And one of the early episodes we did on this show is, what if Captain America became president of the United States? I think that would be interesting. 2024 is, unfortunately, a presidential election year, so there's a lot of things they could tap into there with that character. So I think that would be a potentially strong episode. But I think, in general, I'd love for them to go back and look at the list of comics and go, which of these can we just adapt and obviously make changes to, but not reinvent the wheel from the beginning?

>> Guido: I agree. It's pretty remarkable to me that we're at the end of the second season, and not a single question has been a question taken from the comics. It's pretty remarkable, and I'm not sure why that is and why they don't, play more. I mean, 16, two, maybe Marvel zombies, maybe, but those are, again, more elseworld. So I think that's a great example of a question they could pull. And there is a lot of interesting. Even if they wanted to shy away from politics, there's still interesting stuff you can do with Captain America as president that shows up in that classic issue.

>> Rob: All right, what about M. You?

>> Guido: My question is really along the lines of what Elliot was suggesting in terms of playing with characters we haven't met yet, because who cares? And so I think, what if Charles Xavier met Howard Stark and Hank Pym in the 1980s? We've seen now in this season and in the MCU live action, we've seen moments where these characters, or, these legacy characters have interacted. So imagine a world where Charles Xavier shows up in the 1980s, and who cares? It doesn't need to introduce the X Men to the MCU. It's an alternate universe. Like, what does it mean for Charles Xavier to be part of this team? Obviously, it shows up in the Illuminati on screen. So we already have established the existence of Xavier in the multiverse. So let's now play with him a little bit. Again, who cares if he's not been introduced in the MCU yet? Let's just see it. And I think that would be really fun. And I thought of Xavier because I thought, all right, that's a little more light touch like storm. If they do a storm, what if that is going to be strange because storm doesn't yet exist in the MCU. But again, Xavier exists in the MCU. You can set it in the past. It would not disrupt any future plans for Xavier or the mutants in the MCU, and could just be a fun, divergent world where, again, this 80s cabal of smart, people like Peggy, Hank, and Howard meet Charles.

>> Rob: Yeah, I think that works so perfectly as soon as I read your question, I was like, oh, yeah, those characters would have totally all known each other. And I'm even thinking, too, if they're still fighting Hydra, that's a way to introduce even Magneto. You don't have to get into the Holocaust if you want to change the way, the time, or maybe you do, but you have that character who is an antagonist, but at the same time, he also wants to fight against these fascists as well. So there's a lot of potential there in opening up and combining those worlds.

>> Guido: And I was actually curious if we would see that in the finale of this season, and maybe we will see it in season three because of the existence of X Men 97. So we're going to have an animated universe of X Men that is supposed to be MCU adjacent. If not MCU. I'm still someone who thinks that there is going to be a link between X Men 97 and maybe Deadpool or something like that. But regardless, we're going to have these animated characters. So, yeah, who cares if they show up in this? What if it doesn't need to affect the, MCU 6116 in any way? And it would be so much fun.

>> Rob: And there's a lot of characters, too, that I think, like the ones, that Elliot mentioned. Or I'm thinking, like, kazar. Is Kzar going to get a movie or tv show? Probably not. Does he need one? Maybe not. But it would be fun to see that character pop up in Wakanda and just, let's put those characters together. Exactly.

>> Guido: What if T'Challa met Khazar? Sure.

>> Rob: Yeah, totally. Right there. And then you get that character in there. If it's successful, you could do a whole animated thing. Or maybe it does go into live action, but it's a fun way to get these characters on screen without putting $200 million up to do a new T Disney plus series or a movie or something like that.

>> Guido: So that is a wrap on our coverage of series two. What if? Dear Watchers, thank you for listening. I have been Guido, wearing the infinity armor and the hella helmet and carrying Mjolnir and Odin's sword.

>> Rob: And I have been robot two, which still doesn't work. Not a robot.

>> Guido: The reading list viewing list in this case is in the show notes. Please do, follow us on all social media at Dear Watchers, and leave.

>> Rob: Us a five star review wherever you listened to podcast. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse.

>> Guido: In the meantime, happy new year. In the words of Watu, keep pondering the possibilities.

>> Rob: It.